MFMP Appeals for Help from the Crowd

Here’s a video from the Marting Fleischmann Memorial Project in which they are appealing to the crowd for help with their open source science project. These guys continue to impress with their commitment to making their LENR project as open as possible — and the crowd science model seems to have won them a lot of friends and supporters. Ryan Hunt says that their big needs are in the area of programming, web design, and funds to cover bandwidth.

  • Jamie

    There is no link in the post and I did not see an email address on quantumheat.org to possibly offer help (not sure if my C programming knowledge is of any use). I was also thinking about donating and what I realize is that you are missing an important classification. You should become a 501(c)(3) for the exempt purpose of the advancement of science. It will put limitations on what can be done with the money and you will have to file a yearly 990 and possible state forms, but I’d bet it would help bring in more funds.

    I’ve set up a very small 501(c)(3) education charity in the past, so maybe I can be of some help there.

    With the donation page, you should have an “Other” choice, where the person can enter an amount. Why limit your donations to a set amount or even a max?

  • georgehants

    Global warming still stalled since 1998, WMO Doha figures show
    We’re looking into this thing which is NOT HAPPENING’
    By Lewis Page
    Posted in Science, 29th November 2012 11:58 GMT
    Figures released by the UN’s World Meteorological Organisation indicate that 2012 is set to be perhaps the ninth hottest globally since records began – but that planetary warming, which effectively stalled around 1998, has yet to resume at the levels seen in the 1980s and early 1990s.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/29/wmo_global_temp_figures_2012_doha_ninth_hottest/

  • georgehants

    Now where did this report disappear to?
    —-
    Big Idea: Bring Back the “Cold Fusion” Dream Discover Magazine 16:17 Wed, 28 Nov 2012
    —–
    Page or Resource Not Found
    We’re sorry, but it appears the page you were trying to load has been either removed or moved to a different location.
    http://discovermagazine.com/not-found.aspx?item=%2frss%2ftopic-feeds%2f{3ab8ccb8-b301-4b49-9dbe-ac9cb499f3bc}&user=extranet\Anonymous&site=website#.ULc82WdS7RQ

    • Chris

      Google, the title

      This link works

      http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/27-big-idea-bring-back-the-cold-fusion-dream#.ULc_EazZZ0o

      Admin, I have a comment stuck in moderation you might find salient if you could take a look please * Edit Passed moderation now*

      • georgehants

        Thanks Chris.

        • Chris

          You’re welcome

    • Peter_Roe

      “….scores of wild-eyed papers had claimed to explain cold fusion. Yet Widom-Larsen theory had more going for it.”

      Transl. ‘OK, so it’s real… but whatever it is, it’s not cold fusion, OK?’

      This bit kinda gives the game away I think:

      “Larsen, who formed the company Lattice Energy in 2001 as he was formulating his theory, has his eyes on the big prize: converting nuclear-generated heat into electricity, the unfulfilled original promise of cold fusion. He hopes to raise $25 million over the next few years to build prototype LENR generators.”

      So lets just ignore anyone who claims to already have a working system – ‘big science’ in the person of Larsen will get to the root of this mystery, even if it takes many years and $25M just for starters. ‘Your attention please – the (new) gravy train is about to leave the station – all aboard now.’

      • GreenWin

        Yes Peter, the mainstream is now putting ALL their eggs in the WL theory. Further they are attempting to create a myth around this guy who, far as we know has done zero science experimentally. While Zawodny, McKubre, Focardi, Rossi, Celani, Miley, Ahern, Storms, etc etc etc… are all dismissed.

        This kind of cynicism is no longer viable. The louder these elements shout “It’s NOT cold fusion!” The more imbecilic they appear (sorry, it’s not a criticism – it’s a feeling :)

      • zvibenyosef

        Pons and Fleischmann were unable to explain the anomalous heat they found in their experiment. What they said was that the amount of heat involved ruled out a chemical process, and “speculated” that perhaps it was fusion. They were electrochemists, not physicists, and they had no way to answer the question.
        Wisdon Larsen is only a theory for the time being, it is a good first attempt at an acceptable explanation for LENR. No doubt the theory will undergo some modifications as experimenters test it out.
        Nobody knows how much money or time it will take before LENR becomes the “new fire”, however it looks far more promising than anything the hot fusion folks have come up with, despite over 40 years research and a $trillion. Hows that for a boondoggle?

  • georgehants

    29 November 2012
    New experimental findings challenge theory of electromagnetism
    by Will Parker
    A cornerstone of physics may require a rethink if the results from a series of new ion trap (pictured) experiments at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) are confirmed. The results, reported in Physical Review Letters, indicate that predictions based on the fundamental theory of electromagnetism may not accurately account for the behavior of atoms in exotic states.
    http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20121029012117data_trunc_sys.shtml

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      In other words, they had found that some energy levels in compact highly charged ions such as Ti20+ didn’t match QED predictions. Finite nuclear size comes into mind as a potential source for such discrepancies. (I only read the press release, didn’t look at the paper.)

      • georgehants

        Pekka, you can guess my point.
        Nothing in science is sacrosanct, everything is open, laws, theories, measurements, all are possibly superseded by new research.
        A scientist who follows Dogma or convention is caught in a vicious circle leading nowhere.

      • georgehants

        Science News … from universities, journals, and other research organizations
        Giant Black Hole Could Upset Galaxy Evolution Models
        ScienceDaily (Nov. 27, 2012) — A group of astronomers led by Remco van den Bosch from the Max Planck Institute for Astronomy (MPIA) have discovered a black hole that could shake the foundations of current models of galaxy evolution. At 17 billion times the mass of the Sun, its mass is much greater than current models predict — in particular since the surrounding galaxy is comparatively small. This could be the most massive black hole found to date.
        http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/11/121128132116.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29

        • GreenWin

          Darn. MORE stuff we know nothing about. If this keeps up I’m going to start thinking our science is downright backward.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    November 28th, 2012 at 4:48 PM
    Dear Koen Vandewalle:
    We made an Agreement with a very important Partner who will be able to develope the production as much as requested from the market. The first step are the 1 MW plants we are manufacturing now. It is true what you say, we are changing the design during the manufacturing, because we discover every day possible upgradings, but this is normal when it turns into a completely new technology.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Chris

    I thought I would bring this to the attention of some people regarding patents and how businesses with a trade secret to keep might behave. This is a UK company with a game changing technology called reaction engines LTD.

    Here’s the article http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/28/anywhere-on-earth-in-four-hours-top-secret-skylon-space-plane-could-replace-jets-and-rockets-company-claims/?

    Here’s the quote from the article.

    “The company has deliberately avoided filing patents on its heat exchanger technology to avoid details of how it works – particularly the method for preventing the build-up of frost – becoming public.”

    Sound familiar?

    I can tell you what Reaction Engines LTD have mostly definitely is not a scam, as you can tell from the body of the story. It is a high risk/high reward investment though, as they’ve yet to build the engine and the space plane. They just have their trade secret and the tests to prove it works as advertised. Much like LENR and Rossi (at least to his investors).

    • Peter_Roe

      There’s been a bit of noise on the BBC about their proposal for a new British hypersonic aircraft – the Skylon – resembling the 1980’s HOTOL concept. Good luck to them, but I do wonder where they hope to find the money just now.

      As you say, the parallels with Rossi regarding IP are obvious.

      • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

        Skylon is HOTOL – same people.

        • Chris

          Yep,

          The problem with HOTOL was the design of the plane. It pitched too far forward because the centre of gravity was off. The Skylon airframe fixes that error.

          The government took the chance to kill the project rather than allowing for a redesign (the tory government at the time was anti-science unlike this one.)

          Skylon and it’s engine Sabre are basically a redesign, and the reason it has taken so long to get to this stage is that Alan Bond had to find out how to get around the patent he wrote for British Aerospace, with no money, after the engine he designed for HOTOL was declared top secret by the British government. There’s a great documentary on the subject done by the BBC you can find on youtube. Search for “The Three Rocketeers”. He reckons modern materials have allowed him to make it better. But whether the thing actually flies still remains to be seen.

          But considering the pre-cooler has off shoots outside the aerospace industry it’s looking like he’s about to become very rich regardless of the success of Skylon itself.

  • daniel maris

    I think one might be happier about contributing if they didn’t give the impression that many of the problems of calorimetry are completely new to them. Why can’t they get some calorimetrics expert involved from the get-go? Why do we have this eternal navel-gazing about how you measure temperature?

    • edog

      Danny! know any willing to help????? Can you???
      come one mate!!!
      This is all new to everyone.

    • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

      You make a good point.

      There are challenges with getting experts involved in this field, especially for gratis. If you are aware of any, either in Europe or US, please make them aware of the project. In the meantime, several skilled people are making great contributions that are pushing understanding forward.

      We are acutely aware of this – the means of determining excess power is the main challenge raised against all New Fire participants. That is why it is good for us to explore it deeply.

      Expect these doubts to be addressed soon.

  • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

    This video is part of a broader discussion on what MFMP is doing which can be found here

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/159-los

    • edog

      hey bob,…
      I will put this on the MFMP blog

      but… is it possible to ask celani for a ribbon of his material??
      If he can do a wire.. can he do a ribbon? ie.. flattened out piece of wire, treated in his secret sauce?

      more surface area for the reaction to take place? no.. has surface area got anything to do with LENR?? who knows! lets find out!

      just an idea from outside the box

      • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

        Hi edog,

        it is a good question. However – we could just pack more wire into the cell… However we are attempting to first replicate Celani internally and understand all the parameters. We have become aware that changing things makes comparison difficult enough. We could install many wires in a cell to scale any potential effect – but we don’t want to experience the type of energy gains NASA etc are suggesting. Having a small amount of active component and achieving a small but incontrovertible excess power demonstration setup which is safe is the goal. Once done – this configuration will allow many people to safely explore ways to control or enhance the effect.

  • GreenWin

    Fantastic work from the team at MFMP. A couple of arm’s length questions for Ryan:

    1) while reviewing the Celani experiment at NI Week, the internal construction of his cell appears different from the US MFMP cell. Some of this seems due to placement of sensors and adhesives, other is the actual construction. Can you explain what if any physical differences there are between the two experiment’s components?

    2) MFMP mica clearly uses slotted steel screws to secure Celani and (?) heater wires at terminals inside the cell. How does the metal body and plating of these screws potentially affect the gas mixture inside? Are these zinc, nickel, 300-400 stainless, SPAX, BlueKote, yellow zinc plated?? Do they match exactly Celani’s cell?

    As the LENR effect relies on reactions in metal lattice, would not all metals inside the cell affect reactions? Please excuse my ignorance if these questions have been covered on the MFMP site – I have missed them. Here is a photo and vid of Celani’s cell at NI Week:
    http://img252.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=412292379_celanilettssetup001_122_577lo.jpg

    http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2012/08/09/celani-niweek/

    • buffalo

      @greenwin.npe those screws would have zero effect on the gas inside.their surface area is zilch compared to the wire.

    • edog

      very good thinking Gwin!
      Did you post it on the MFMP replicaton blog?? in the comments? the guys are reading them, for sure.
      As a lot of us are saying here.. the people stuck in their ways are stuck.. it might be up to us people who have no idea.. to spark the ideas!

      Cheers
      M

      :)

  • Jim

    Anyone know how to get word of this to Bruce Sterling? This is his SciFi future come to life.

  • georgehants

    It may be worth the MFMP guys giving the Hot Fusion guys a call, they could fund them for 10 years simply by putting it on their expenses as petty cash.
    Or any philanthropist could feel very good about helping to “save the World” for a few dollars.

    • http://lenrplans.wordpress.com/ Owen

      It’s possible some hot fusion scientists will jump ship and come to our side. Surely some of them are reading what’s going on with LENR. They’ve probably heard of potential funding cuts to their programs and are beginning to look at alternative careers such as cold fusion.

      • Peter_Roe

        I think that may be right, but at this stage the ‘big science’ model of solicited funding, large teams of mediocre people, huge bureaucratic administrations and painstaking progress through incremental peer reviewed research may not be the best way forward. BTW, see Georgehants’ link to the Discovery article above – the process you refer to seems to be already under way.

  • clovis

    HEY, YA’LL.
    Everything, going smoothly, temp rising,lots of good data pouring in.
    Was glad to hear that Geiger counters, and the like, are taking data.
    As soon as you get the extra energy, data for this experiment,i think you said that you guys will build another cell, for the next experiment, I don’t mean to get ahead to far, but i would also like to see a coil of some design surrounding the next cell, as to be able to pulse the core at or above the natural resonance, of both NI, H,, and get this party get started,-smile- because it is my opinion, that shaking the pi_s out of it will get a bigger gain, i know that’s not very techie , but just an old okie’s opinion.–smile.

  • kwhilborn

    I wish they would open source their donations vs expenses. It would make me more comfortable donating there. I know this was not a plea for donations, but I’m still a bit skeptical of their motivations.

    • Ecco the Dolphin

      This information is already on their website.

      ttp://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/donate/all-donors

      ttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnO3bSu6N7vwdHhYVzRIT0lpWUc3MDh2UTV3dXFsZ1E#gid=0

      • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

        As Ecco says, A spreadsheet of some of our direct costs is linked on the donate page. The team members have each spent many many 100s of hours unpaid in addition to their other commitments to progress the project and we are getting a lot of enjoyment out of it!

        The cost spreadsheet will soon include what has been paid for by donations. There are many additional things to add on there, many of the members of the team are using their own resources to buy necessary components and it takes time to collate invoices and such and transfer funds.

        You can get an idea of some of the unfunded elements by looking at the links on the partslist.

        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkyO8n6-0MjNdEFqMm56TXhnNnd0OVBfX2dHbXFrRUE&output=html

        Expect MUCH more of this to come.

        • kwhilborn

          Nice to see. Sorry for the worry, but I’d hate to see something as important as this get lost in a fundraising driven charity.