Energy in the News: Desertec Africa-to-Europe Power Project in Trouble

BBC News is reporting that an ambitious project to generate huge amounts of renewable power in North Africa, and transmit it to Europe is in trouble. According the the article, two large companies, Siemens and Bosch, have pulled out of the Desertec project, and the government of Spain has recently decided not to sign a declaration of intent to provide funding for the project.

The overall goal of this plan is to increase the usage of renewable energy technologies such as concentrating solar power and photovoltaic plants by building them in sun-rich places like the Sahara desert, and use high voltage direct-current undersea cables to transmit it to Europe. Desertec is also looking at similar projects in Asia.

Siemens has recently announced that is leaving the solar business to concentrate on wind and hydro power technology, and this could have been a factor in its decision to pull out of Desertec. Whether they have their eye on LENR as a major player in the energy market is unknown at this point, but Desertec is the kind of project that would be in danger of becoming obselete should a LENR power production become a reality.

  • Sophie P

    A polite way of saying “We’re not putting Europe’s power supply in the Middle East, it wouldn’t last six months. That’s just asking for trouble.”

  • georgehants

    Topic full below —-
    Karl on November 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm
    I’m quite puzzled why I hardy get any substantial information when instructing Google to send news about Could Fusion and LENR. I’ve set this on Google UK in this case which I normally work with (although I’m located in Sweden). Have anyone some experience here or can Google be part of a censorship?

    • georgehants

      Karl, I have had those searches for a very long time and they used to come in regularly, but now even though there are far more reports Goggle searches find very little.
      The conspiracies in this World are far deeper then many suppose.

      • Karl

        George
        Funny enough the last info I got, perhaps two weeks ago, was a short piece with some wordings of a US government (came through) searched qualified interested to participate in Cold Fusion projects. Even remote working was said to be accepted. I haven’t looked up the contact person Jeff Gladnick.

        See message below:

        “Unnamed not-for-profit (Washington, DC) is looking for an experienced ColdFusion Developer to support existing applications and to work on new projects. This is a contract position that will require 40 hours per week initially, down to 15-20 hours per week after the first month or two, and pays up to $55/hour. Requirements include experience with ColdFusion, JavaScript, jQuery, MySQL, basic UI skills, as well as knowledge of Salesforce CRM. Experience with Salesforce APIs preferred. Telecommuting is acceptable. Contact Jeff Gladnick.”

        • Karl

          I may have misinterpreted a non profit Washington DC to US government?

        • Rafter

          This is an advertisement for an database developer. The database is an Adobe product called “ColdFusion”. It has nothing to do with energy.

        • Omega Z
          • Karl

            Ok thanks. It looks very strange that Google transfer a meaningless message named ColdFusion which apparently it has nothing to do with ColdFusion or LENR. This automatic search results they present are very very poor and does not mirror at all what’s going on in the field. On the contrary, when you actively search on Google you get a reasonable search result.

      • Peter_Roe

        Eric Schmidt (Google chairman) attended this year’s Bilderberg meeting, so they are members of the club now. We already see how they are happy to go with the flow in China, for example.

        • GreenWin

          Peter (beg pardon) – do they actually “build” anything at those meetings?

          • Peter_Roe

            Only their personal fortunes I would think! I’m not sure their activities could be seen as constructive in any sense.

          • Dickyaesta

            GreenWin for your info.Originaly it was in this Hotel just after WO II http://www.bilderberg.nl/uk/hotels/hotel-de-bilderberg/ in the east of Holland where the Bilderberg Group was formed. Sorry Bilderberg has nothing to do with building, is the name of a little mountain or more likely hill, being in Holland named Bilder.
            The surroundings are beautiful and worth visiting apart from posssible sinister feelings towards the Bilderberg-group, which surely not is lurking around the corner anymore or in the beautiful old oak trees for that matter. Maybe a good place to rest your head and get rich he Peter cheers ;)

            • GreenWin

              Thanks Dickyaesta. I was playing on words with Peter. One would like to think these meetings originated with only good intent. The idea that certain king makers could sensibly agree where politicians could not.

              Unfortunately, like many exclusive clubs, beneficence soon gives way to self-interest. Which then is defended with militant action. The NWO/bilderbergs planned to exploit climate fears via carbon taxes and giant wind and solar projects. The carbon “credit market” alone would generate billion$ to enrich its inventors and keep the people addicted to expensive grid-based energy.

              When cold fusion came along, it threatened the entire scheme. Now that LENR is inevitable – look for a new campaign from the carbon/climate coalition. And a new embrace of LENR: “See, this is what we’ve been demanding all along.”

              When facing certain defeat, declare victory and hurry on home.

              • Dickyaesta

                I agree with you, but sadly so, it seemed a good idea at the time. Of course I got the wordplay, but it is such a idylic place that I thought it worth mentioning.

                • xaptain

                  And the … end of the story culd start in next months, when Rossi’s 1MW hot thermal plant will start producing electricity in a SSM thru turbines/generator :-)
                  [waiting for moderation this too?]

  • georgehants

    From Phys-Org
    Bosch follows Siemens out the door of Desertec renewable energy project November 20, 2012 by Nancy Owano
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-bosch-siemens-door-desertec-renewable.html#jCp

  • Lemuel

    Some of you engineering types might cast your eyes over this patent recently granted to Siemens (Oct 2012). It relates to a mechanism to capture and cool steam in a ‘combined cycle’ power system and recycle it, and also to produce potable water (say, in areas where water is a finite resource).

    Might there perhaps be a correlation between it and Rossi’s E-Cat?

    I include the abstract here which outlines the patent’s application where it specifies that it applies to a gas turbine/ steam turbine/ driving a generator, but, the last paragraph of the granted patent (see below) appears to throw the net of control of the patent far wider.

    “A method and system for augmenting the output of a combined cycle power plant having a gas turbine driving a generator, a heat recovery steam generator that recovers exhaust heat from the gas turbine to drive a steam turbine also driving a generator, and a refrigeration element that is powered by available energy in steam exhausted from the steam turbine to cool water. The refrigeration element employs a substantially closed cycle refrigeration system that is either an absorption chilling system or a thermal compression chilling system. The refrigeration element provides cool water to an inlet chiller arranged to chill inlet to the gas turbine to augment the power output of the gas turbine and the water is recirculated to be chilled and used again. Since the refrigeration cycle is substantially closed, little or no additional plant water consumption is imposed on the power plant”…………..

    “The invention has been described herein in terms of preferred embodiments and methodologies considered to represent the best mode of carrying out the invention. However, the invention should not be construed to be limited by the illustrated embodiments. In fact, a wide variety of additions, deletions, and modifications might well be made to the illustrated embodiments without departing from the spirit and scope of the invention as set forth in the claims”.
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=82,86,431.PN.&OS=PN/82,86,431&RS=PN/82,86,431

    • Peter_Roe

      The application seems very specific to gas turbine driven plant, in that it is concerned with maximising turbine power by cooling intake air, and with extracting useful work from the hot exhaust. Of course, some of the technology would probably be tranferrable to CF usage, and as you suggest, to incidental water purification. The trailing paragraph is probably just a standard catch-all.

  • georgehants

    The government wants to make all publicly funded research available – but the same must be demanded of pharmas also
    Why all pharmaceutical research should be made open access
    We’d been talking about Ben Goldacre’s excellent new book, Bad Pharma, in which Goldacre documents the problem of “missing data” in pharmaceutical research (he says about half of the clinical trials undertaken by the pharmaceutical industry are never published). The unpublished trials are, of course, the trials that show the pharma companies’ new products in unflattering lights – trials that suggest that their drugs don’t work very well, or don’t work at all, or are actively harmful.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/20/pharmaceutical-research-open-access

    • Peter_Roe

      Also respect to Fiona Godlee, editor of the BMJ, who supports Goldacre’s calls for full publication of pharma trials data.

  • georgehants

    A New Power Generation Technique
    November 19, 2012
    A Louisiana Tech University and University of Texas at Arlington team of professors and Louisiana Tech graduate students have created a hybrid nanomaterial that can be used to convert light and thermal energy into electrical current as a thermoelectric generator.
    http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/11/19/a-new-power-generation-technique/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NewEnergyAndFuel+%28New+Energy+and+Fuel%29

    • Peter_Roe

      Morning George. Quite a few teams seem to be working on carbon nanotube TEGs – all at low efficiencies so far I think. I suppose the intention is to build better PVs but it would be nice to think that the technology might come in handy for CF reactors in due course.

      • georgehants

        Morning Peter, I had a new report on chem-trails that was interesting, but I cannot now find it, sorry.
        Much happening around, a little different from two years ago when news about Cold Fusion etc. was hard to come by.
        I think Mr. Rossi is shortly going to come across with good news.
        I will add of course, that is just my (possibly) wishful thinking.
        Also a good report below but for some reason it has gone to the deadly moderation.
        —–
        http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/popsci2012.pdf

        • Peter_Roe

          George, further down the page I made a comment about things that I’ve recently learned that scare the sh*t out of me. As you mention it, chemtrails are probably at number one in this respect (nuclear cover-up is a close second).

          I won’t offer any links as this is not the place, but I do strongly urge anyone who thinks this is conspiracy stuff to do some serious research on the topic. Or just watch the sky on a clear bright morning, as blue is turned into gray haze by grid patterns of trails nowhere near flight paths, that persist for hours and gradually spread out into a uniform layer.

          • georgehants

            Peter, I think we are extremely lucky on these pages that Admin is aware that the terrible treatment endured by P&F, Rossi et al, and all of Cold Fusion, extends far and wide in science.
            Cold Fusion gives the opertunity for scientists to look at themselves and decide if the premier occupation in this World should continue to be an Establishment, Dogma, following Club for the elite and manipulative religion that they force on science, or as it should be a fraternity of competent, searching, open-minded professionals doing SCIENCE.
            Many other seemingly unrelated subjects are entwined to the Cold Fusion fiasco, that has shown clearly that science in many areas is a disaster.
            These pages are in my opinion serving a great purpose in giving the opertunity to those apparently few “caring” scientists to air their views and possible needed corrections to the dire situation.

            • Peter_Roe

              It’s possible that some kind of ‘permission’ is now being granted to look into CF, but without this, it is still career suicide to venture off the reservation in science, media and politics.

              It is the depth and extent of control in these areas that frightens me. If literally no-one outside a few web blogs can factually cover issues such as CF, AGW, chemtrails and so on, the resulting general ignorance allows the string pullers to almost literally do whatever they like.

              Massive and ongoing geo-engineering almost in plain sight, involving worldwide aerial spraying of aluminium, bismuth and strontium compounds and worse is the most urgent of many issues that a complete lack of public knowledge or democratic oversight has allowed to occur, but there are many others.

              • georgehants

                This is one of the few places in the World where Facts and Evidence can be discussed relativity safe from the overwhelming majority of seemingly unending numbers of ECN like mentalities.
                Even here, any suggestion of thinking outside of the establishment constructed box by simply observing the, near swear word, TRUTH, is mostly, quickly ignored or passed by as a “little silly”.
                Until the end there is always the future.

                • Peter_Roe

                  Right on all counts. Kudos to Admin for creating an maintaining this blog.

                • Karl

                  I’m quite puzzled why I hardy get any substantial information when instructing Google to send news about Could Fusion and LENR. I’ve set this on Google UK in this case which I normally work with (although I’m located in Sweden). Have anyone some experience here or can Google be part of a censorship?

  • georgehants

    Hydrobetatron ‏@Hydrotron_lab
    Ho caricato un video di @YouTube: http://youtu.be/YZs0yi6FdQs?a PRESENTAZIONE PROF. ABUNDO

  • georgehants

    Steven Jones replica: Pons & Fleischmann XS Heat not from fusion
    by Sterling D. Allan
    Pure Energy Systems News
    Jones is experimenting with a bell electrode setup that strongly evidences excess (xs) energy and has similarities to the cell presented by Pons and Fleischmann. He says that there are at least two distinct phenomena in these experiments and that “fusion” is not what most of these “CF” or “LENR” types of arrangements exhibit.
    http://pesn.com/2012/11/19/9602225_Steven_Jones_replica–Pons_and_Fleischmann_XS_Heat_not_from_fusion/

    • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

      I find that very interesting – that the helium products and the nickel not turning into copper, and the energy production are unrelated – so it’s not E-mc^2. I’ve seen the presentation, Steven E. Jones thinks it is Dark Energy – but Dark Energy is very dilute.

      • Peter_Roe

        The concepts of ‘dark energy’ and ‘dark matter’ are really just kludges to try to make the ‘standard model’ fit observations. As they can’t be detected or characterised, its a bit difficult to see how Jones can invoke dark energy as an ‘explanation’. It’s a shame people can’t just admit that they don’t know what is happening quite yet, and that more data is needed.

        • GreenWin

          Really Peter. Except for a few minor items like where 94% of all matter in the universe is hiding… scientists know exactly how our physical world works!

          • Peter_Roe

            And a few other small problems, such as not having any clue as to why the universe appears to be expanding at an accelerating rate, why quasars do not show gravitational time dilation effects, or why there are so many anomalies in observed ‘red shifts’ (http://electric-cosmos.org/arp.htm).

            … and of course being completely unable so far to explain ‘LENR’…

            Its so much easier to just deny that such ‘problems’ exist.

  • georgehants

    INFINITE ENERGY • ISSUE 106 • NOVEMBER/DECEMBER 2012
    Christy L. Frazier
    Popular Science Covers Cold Fusion
    “It is no great leap for the people at that conference
    to accept that Rossi is probably right. It is no big deal. Just about everyone at that conference has seen the cold fusion
    effect first-hand, including me. We have no doubt at all that
    cold fusion itself is real. We also think it is likely the Ni-H
    version works. A lot of us (including me) respect Piantelli
    and Focardi. Based on that, it is reasonable to conclude that
    Rossi’s claims are probably true.
    http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/popsci2012.pdf

  • georgehants

    From Greenstyle. Google translate.
    Certainly suggestive conference “New energies in the School” to be held Leopoldo Pirelli Institute of Rome on the 4th of December. The school celebrates so today’s research in the field of LENR, but also a bit ‘itself. Last year, in fact, remember that the institute has been the scene of research conducted by a team led by prof. Ugo Abundo and connected to a school project also attended by some students. Not for nothing, Abundo is also one of the organizers of the said event.
    Among the scientific work (including via video interviews to project) will participate in the conference most of the elite of the research on cold fusion : Francesco Celani to Yogenda Srivastava.
    There will, of course, a time dedicated to children and their experience with the project Athanor . Finally, it will be presented the state of the art of cold fusion reactor on which Abundo is working. We remember how the ‘ Hydrobetatron is an open source project that, unlike the ‘ E-Cat of Andrea Rossi, is open to contributions from anyone. In this sense, the four will be presented on the official website from where you can get all the information.
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenstyle.it%2Ffusione-fredda-abundo-presenta-le-lenr-alliis-pirelli-di-roma-13031.html

    • captain

      Thank U george, very interesting and understandable too.

  • georgehants

    Super-efficient solar-energy technology unveiled
    Tuesday, 20 November 2012
    Rice University scientists have unveiled a revolutionary new technology that uses nanoparticles to convert solar energy directly into steam. The new “solar steam” method from Rice’s Laboratory for Nanophotonics (LANP) is so effective it can even produce steam from icy cold water.
    http://machineslikeus.com/news/super-efficient-solar-energy-technology-unveiled

  • GreenWin

    Continued intrigue with Italy’s energy specialist Ansaldo Energia. Siemens AG has offered to purchase 100% from Finmeccanica, Italy’s largest defense manufacturer. Now a new international buyer has appeared; Shigenobu Nagamori, billionaire president of Nidec Corporation, a Japanese group that recently bought Ansaldo Sistemi. Milan Financial reports that Nagamori is “much” interested in buying Ansaldo – suggesting there may be an international bidding war for the company that sent a high level representative to National Instruments Week to discuss… cold fusion. Ansaldo also sent one of their scientists to observe Rossi’s Oct 28th 1MW e-cat demo.

    Recently large solar and nuclear fission projects are dropping like flies (in the Arctic.) The Triple over-budget 50+ years to operation ITER project is wavering on financial collapse. Along with other hot fusion behemoths like the failed NIF. Meanwhile tiny startups like Blacklight Power, Brillouin, Leonardo, make steady progress developing commercial LENR-based products.

    Is there a major change coming in the way energy is produced and distributed? Anyone thinking fossil shorts?

    http://bit.ly/SLms9Q

    • Peter_Roe

      My ‘portfolio’ consists of a few shares in the local preserved railway and some ancient ‘premium bonds’ (interest-free state lottery) but if I had any investment in nuclear, gas turbine, coal, geothermal, solar or wind power I’d be quietly bailing I think. Gas fired boiler generators may survive through retro-fitting, but the conversion costs will be high.

    • captain

      For wise people, as I’ve already said, start buying Ansaldo shares: there’s the actual future of energy sources.
      Forget fossils, put aside PV and wind for awhile: remember that very very soon we’ll see the 1MW hot plant making a steady flow of 600C dry steam (year’s end?) and driving turbines/generators for electricity. Turbines for it are available in US, EU and JP.
      No need of more words.

  • Robert

    Rossi dodgy?! Noooo how could that be? 2 years no proof no product just more questions. It’s greed or he doesn’t have what he says. Why would any one person in their right mind hold back a product so revolutionary it would literally change geopolitics and save countless innocent people from war, famine and disease. Save humanity from its political And oligarch masters. Take back the freedom that so many espouse. All this waiting is just not necessary!

    • GreenWin

      Than you Robert, but we here have reconciled – whining does not help.

    • Peter_Roe

      So you know ways to take the technology from prototype to industrial production in a few months then Robert? Perhaps you will show Rossi and the rest of us exactly how you would go about this miracle – the planet will be eternally grateful.

    • Sophie P

      It will save people from famine and disease, but I sincerely doubt anything will stop war because it’s part of the human condition. It may prevent nuclear war though, as it would be a lot easier to stop weapons proliferation if everyone didn’t need nuclear reactors for power. :)

      • Peter_Roe

        It may be the other way round I think. Thorium reactors were proposed at about the same time as U235 fission reactors, but the latter were chosen, despite the dangers, because they ensured a constant supply of bomb-making fissionables. Now politicians are intent on building a new round of plutonium-ready reactors because they don’t know what else to do with the stockpiles of this unbelievably undesirable material contained in the waste from G1 reactors, as it is no longer wanted in any quantity for making weapons.

        • GreenWin

          One of the interesting side effects of cold fusion is the ability to cut half life of radioactive materials. When the Patterson Power Cell was brought to the public by ABC-TV’s program “Good Morning America” – they demonstrated “live” this effect.

          As with other breakthrough energy technologies, the broadcast and Patterson cell, somehow disappeared.

          • Peter_Roe

            Yes, that is certainly something to hope is real. Other ‘fringe’ researchers have also claimed to have non-LENR methods of vastly accelerating nuclear decay without massive energy release.

            I saw something recently about levels of cosmic radiation affecting nuclear decay – something that shouldn’t be possible. It seems that the ignorance of establishment physics has almost no bounds.

  • GreenWin

    It appears large providers are recognizing the inevitable growth of distributed energy systems. Regardless the fuel… transmitting energy over conductors, at great distances – has become archaic.

    • b4FreeEnergy

      Finally!

      And let’s hope it gets through this time …
      Most people still don’t know a thing about those possible new sorts of energy.
      They still laugh and still look at you with their eyes full of compassion with that naïve daydreamer!

      • Peter_Roe

        Before I started following this story and trying to peer behind the stage set, I had no real idea of just how deeply most people are conditioned by the ‘media’, and how utterly unable they are to think for themselves. Now that I am more aware of how things work, and of some of the literally life-threatening things that are going on behind a cynically constructed worldwide screen of lies – it scares the hell out of me.

        • GreenWin

          No need for fear, I think. Just steady insistence on knowing the truth. After all, “Know the truth, and it will set you free.”

          Best thing I learned in college. Beside party skills.

  • daniel maris

    I was always sceptical of the Desertec project, and never fond of it. For one thing it appeared to be swapping dependence on one energy source – oil – from a politically fragile area, for another source in a similarly unstable area. For another, it necessitated huge grid work.

    And, yes, what about the desert ecosystem? – that deserves some consideration.

    I look forward to the time when we send out huge solar ships that will use PV power to create methane from air and water on the sunlit oceans. That carbon neutral technology would work well I think.

    • Omega Z

      daniel

      It’s all about wealth redistribution.
      I’m of the philosophy of teach them to fish.

      Governments tendency to level Down.
      It’s easier to lower the standard of living for the haves then to increase the standard of living for the have not.

      • Peter_Roe

        It is about ‘disempowering’ too, by destroying the ‘middle classes’. People who are 100% occupied with trying to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads do not have time to inform themselves about world affairs, question government actions, or have the resources to protest. That is why 50 million Americans are on the poverty line already, and the EU inner core appears to be trying to create a similar situation in Europe.

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          What’s Really sad is 10′s of millions can educate/inform themselves now, but that would cut into their 20 to 30 hours a week of Reality TV Shows. At least in the States.

  • Sanjeev

    A good decision by Siemens. Solar PV cell is essentially a decentralized tech, its already costlier than traditional plants and the cost of maintaining it in a remote insecure desert and transmitting to EU would be impractical.

    US is poised to become the #1 oil and gas producer in the world, so probably EU doesn’t need non-traditional sources at this time, they will get cheap oil, in other words, probably Siemens could not convince the stakeholders of any profits/advantages.

    From another angle, you don’t need to set up a plant in Sahara, look at Germany, they are a cold nation but are a leader in Solar/wind power, so is China. The warm nations like India and African countries can become totally independent of fossil fuels, using only Solar, but they are too poor and non-innovative to even take a step.

    Linking to LENR, probably Siemens has some inside info, but I’m not too sure of it.

    • sparks

      Whoa — nobody will get “cheap oil” in the future, not Europe, not the USA, not China. If you know something the rest of the informed world does not, please do share it and provide a citation or two! In a nutshell, oil will be on a relentless upward trend (subject to short-term bursts and dips) for the rest of our lives. The so-called US shale boom is strictly expensive oil, slow to extract, quick to deplete, and requiring the manufacture of thousands of extremely expensive drilling rigs if we hope to expand shale production. The only thing that will reduce the price of oil is something we do not want: Total economic collapse.

    • Mop

      I think Desertec wasn’t about solar PV cells. In the desert, it was to use simpler technology, concentrating sunlight with mirrors, or a setup with a giant transparent umbrella with a very high vertical concrete tube in its middle with a turbine. The main thing about Desertec was connecting everything.

      • Omega Z

        A problem not mentioned with the Desertec project. On going Terrorist attacks of the system to shut down Europe’s Energy System.

        This would give Credible Reason for NATO & the U.S. to keep a Large Military presence in the Area.

        • Peter_Roe

          It’s a sign of desperation that such a scheme was even considered.

  • freethinker

    Solar energy is a decent proposition.

    Its clean, and uses something that we get in abundance. Not a resource hog. Not raping the earth while getting it (well – those solar cells need silicon, or similar …). Not polluting the world with what remains when the energy been harvested.

    Still, like would any hot-fusion reactor aimed for today, it would be a big energy plant, somewhere in no-where, most likely. One big central plant and infrastructure to move the energy to the user.

    Centralised, vulnerable, expensive, and cementing the forcing of consumers to stay in the big grid.

    So… My bet is with the new fire. In the end, I hope, it will be available to all people. Clean, abundant, inexpensive and unobtrusive to our planet.

    • Peter_Roe

      “Centralised, vulnerable, expensive, and cementing the forcing of consumers to stay in the big grid.” Vulnerability alone might be enough to give the proposers second thoughts. The owners would need a small army to guard the installations and their cables in some of the most hostile and unstable areas of the world.

      Ensuring that consumers would be stuck with grid supplies would probably be seen as a plus, though.

      • freethinker

        Yes,

        you are right about the grid. My thought there would be the monolithic, centralised huge grid (That kind of solutions maybe is not so commonplace today). Naturally, the grid is needed in one shape or another, but I hope for dynamic smart grid solutions.

        You know, such that the whole by far exceeds the sum of the parts when you look at it. Distributed, agile, reconfigurable in the small scale as well in the large scale, but yet robust, powerful, almost omnipresent. And open for the consumers to deliver power to it.
        Owned by many, maintained by many.

        Yes I am dreaming the dreams of the uninitiated. But still, that would be something. But being the pessimist I am :) I think this is not what we will see (initially) even with a good proliferation with LENR devices. Some players want to cash in on their investments first…

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        “The owners would need a small army to guard the installations and their cables in some of the most hostile and unstable areas of the world.”

        Yes, for protection from the “Religion of Peace”.

  • Martin

    The desert is an extremely delicate eco-system. Huge areas covered with solar power plants in the desert are not better than any other energy source when it comes to environmental issues.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Money is the problem, not eco-BlahBlah.

    • Peter_Roe

      I think the scorpions and snakes are probably safe on this occasion.

  • theBuckWheat

    Liberals (er, now “progressives”) love to scold the rest of us about sustainability, yet none of their Unicorn Utopia projects are ever economically sustainable.

    • Adam Lepczak

      Yes its better to burn coal and oil from Osama’s Bin Laden’s friends. That’s much better in the eyes of the republicans…

      • MikeP

        Funny, Repubs I know want to use coal, oil, and gas from North America. Dems on the other hand would rather turn to Brazil or the middle east and sell our coal to china.

    • AB

      Making new energy sources available isn’t a hipster lifestyle choice that we could do without. It is necessary for the survival of modern civilization.

    • robyn wyrick

      “None of their Unicorn Utopia projects are ever economically sustainable.”

      Okay, I’ll bite.

      Liberal projects that are economically sustainable:
      – The Internet
      – Social Security
      – Government Funded Science/Medical Research

      Oh, wait, there are Liberals in the private sector as well. Let’s see if any of their unicorn ideas have proved economically sustainable:
      – Apple Computer
      – Disney
      – Ben & Jerry’s
      – Starbucks

      I guess we could go on. But if you meant only to focus on economically sustainable *energy technologies* (pretty limited subject, but again, heck, I’ll bite):

      – Batch solar water pre-heaters
      – The EV1 Electric car
      – Compact florescent lights
      – Solar PV
      – Wind turbines
      – Hydro Power
      – Heck, home insulation, CAFE standards, bike lanes, etc., etc.

      But good energy policy and technology isn’t a Liberal/Conservative conflict. I am friends with many Conservatives who favor alternative energy technologies.

      Take a deep breath and join the fun among friends, huh?

      • PersonFromPorlock

        Er… the sustainability of Social Security is very much in doubt. And the main role of Liberals in hydro power these days is as a force for having dams removed for the sake of the fish. And I really don’t understand how you get from liberal businesspeople to ‘liberal’ businesses… Apple, for instance, has always been run like a Nineteenth Century railroad empire, Jobs’s and Wozniak’s political convictions notwithstanding.

        • Mannstein

          Problems with Social Security are over blown. The system is sound until 2027. With small tweeks it can be extended to cover our grand kids. Social Security tax, ie. FICA has been paying the freight since the Vietnam War. If it hadn’t been for FICA and the politicians raiding the fund everyone’s taxes would have doubled. FICA takes in 1.1 Trillion per year. Federaral taxes on wages, didvidends, capital gains, and corporate taxes amount to 900 Billion per year. If FICA had been put into a lock box the way Al Gore suggested the money would be there to pay recipients instead of IOUs.

          Why does Wall Street do everything to convince the politicians to privatize Social Security? So they can get their hands on an that income stream and rip us off at the end a second time. They realize that the baby boomers are retiring so that the money going into 401ks is drying up.

      • GreenWin

        Just a couple notes Robyn: the internet started as a military project under DARPA. And, sadly Ben and Jerry’s sold out to conglomerate Unilever in 2000 – not exactly sustainable. As you point out though – energy can be neither a liberal or conservative claim.

        If anything, the advent of unlimited, clean cold fusion energy will expand common ground amidst political differences.

  • AstralProjectee

    Good, with or without Rossi I am confident that someone will make it to market soon with a super cheap energy device. So any investment in any other energy technology is a bad idea.

    • buffalo

      yes u may wana keep one eye on the new upcoming QUENCO device.this thing realy takes the cake.a whole bunch of 2nd law violations are on the way up.

      • Gaurau

        Confirmed is WATT range of output from Quenco.

        No alternative power for Dodge Viper yet.

        • daniel maris

          Quenco look well dodgy – just loads of stuff about licensing. I Would waste time on them until they demonstrate a marketable product.

          • buffalo

            quenco website may look like a blank tv screen at moment but the theory is there for evry1 to see,and try.the owner is even offering a 10000 dollar reward to any1 that can prove that the device is NOT a 2nd law violation(he has a few samples).

        • Bigwilly

          Easy Daniel,

          Dodgy? There website looks par for the course for us. Rossi could be quite easily labeled as dodgy. But some of us might disagree.

          BW

          • daniel maris

            Have Quenco got three physics professors backing them?

          • Bigwilly

            Does Prof Rossi?

            I know he had many highly regarded professors a year or two ago but I haven’t heard any rays of praise from them since.

            I for one believe they have been lured to the other side by unknown agents and interest but that is unsubstantiated.

            BW

            • GreenWin

              BW, have you been taking clandestine meetings with BS again?

              • Bigwilly

                Hi GreenWin,

                No. I dont agree with Bill Smiths views on the trends of technology.

                BW

        • buffalo

          uhmm,excuse me mr garau,a few watts/cm2 and a few nanometers thickness,now multiply by a thousand layers..