New Poll: Optimistic or Pessimistic Regarding E-Cat?

It’s been a while since news of the E-Cat came on the scene, and we are still waiting to see the commercialization of E-Cat technology. I’m interested to see how the readership of this site stands in terms of the level of optimism or pessimism regarding the eventual success of E-Cat technology as a new and useful form of energy.

Please vote in the poll (in the right sidebar) and feel free to eleborate on your position in the comments below.

  • David Anderson

    Human creativity is awesome. Ten years in development is a very short period of time. It is not a question of believing, it is a question of embracing all creative people. We may, at present, be living in a new renaissance period where all kinds of developments will flourish. Keep the information field open of both mortal and immortal minds. Let it flow. If ones expectations with the ecat are not met then perhaps there are others currently or in the near future bring this new fire to humanity. When you develop something new, do you expect to get it right the first time? Well only when you are an armchair spectator, for they can “do” I mean talk with such certainty and success.

  • Cindy

    My hope for LENR is that it will become the new energy technological revolution, similar to the Industrial revolution. Imagine massive numbers of new real jobs created…Imagine not fighting wars over oil….We will always need oil, but less of it. Our lives as we know it will never be the same when LENR takes off. Advances in many creative technologies would grow by leaps and bounds because creative technology would no longer be limited by energy use and expense. This technology can save our planet. I do not understand why governments are not taking more actions in the development of this technology, unless they are afraid of the big powerful oil companies. Or…maybe military thinks it has capability to be used in weapons to harm humans. I would love to try out an ECAT in my home in Minnesota as a Beta test.

    • Regrettably, given AR’s determination (see the second-next post) that a home e-cat that produces electricity is unthinkable (“you are right, it is unthinkable to make electric power with a domestic E-Cat, with the existing power production technologies”), it seems like time to turn all our attention to fostering the development of’s hydrino reactors for the home. Randall Mills is even more of a procrastinator than Andrea Rossi, I fear, so it will take a lot of patience. However, there’s a lot more elaborated science and theory in Mills’ case, and his work has been subjected to substantial validation studies that it has passed with flying colors. As far as the government’s power regime, however, it will become increasingly difficult for cold fusion devices to compete with conventional electric technologies because the threat to them is obvious and real. Most of them will have little interest in the wholsesale conversion of their power plants to a new technology and will fight any consumer mandate to do it tooth and nail. I’m really afraid we’re stuck with what we’ve got until Randell Mills gets off his duff. I am nn optimist by nature, and a dreamer for sure, so this take is hard on me, but I think it’s realistic.

  • georgehants

    Pedro got there first.
    Lovely day.

  • Pedro

    In his blog Andrea Rossi answers a question about home cat for electricity generation…
    November 19th, 2012 at 6:54 AM
    Dear Gherardo,
    Sorry, I hadn’t understood fully your comment.
    Yes, you are right, it is unthinkable to make electric power with a domestic E-Cat, with the existing power production technologies. The Carnot cycle makes sense only for industrial applications, as you correctly think and all the direct conversion system are not mature, or can yield too low efficiency.
    Warm Regards,

  • Rene Vega

    I voted overall increasingly pessimistic. The basis to that vote is that there are two areas where an e-cat product would fit and so this vote reflects those two possibilities. One is industrial or commercial power generation. The claims look good, and it is only that without outside confirmation I remain skeptic in the sense that it all holds great promise awaiting a final product or installation along with strong indepedent confirmation. I am hopeful that will happen soon.

    My increasing pessimism comes from the home or domestic e-cat product. That one looks like it is sailing further away from becoming something people can acquire. And so, I see commercial interests quite happy to mix this technology into their revenue streams and the fruition of indepedent low cost heat and electrical power sources fading.

    • captain

      The object of this thread is… do U believe that E-Cat is really working or not?
      U’ve missed the goal.
      And the 1MW warm thermal plants are already on sale…

      • Rene Vega

        The question asked was “what is …the level of optimism or pessimism regarding the eventual success of E-Cat technology as a new and useful form of energy.” To that I thought about useful to whom. Hence it is useful (when verified to work) to large commercial and industrial enterprises. Though I am happy for them, it does not help me directly. Trickle down energy has a tendency to get leveraged.

      • Robert Horning

        I would like to see one of these “1 MW thermal plants” in operation. Really. If I knew somebody with money available and need to spend on one of those plants, I would strongly urge them to keep their money and spend it on something much more productive and proven… like a coal burning steam plant. Actually, I do know somebody with the cash to buy one if it really worked too.

        I still hold out some hope that perhaps Andrea Rossi has a real technology here that actually works as advertised, but he hasn’t convinced me in a conclusive manner that it actually works, or that he has sold these devices to anybody at all. I can’t even get a return call to buy one of these devices… other than to people who don’t have a clue about what is going on.

  • Tom

    Still yet to see any conclusive proof or disproof of a working Ecat so I’ll remain reservedly optimistic.

  • Nearly a year has gone by, a year that started with a lot of promise.

    The the delay in the UA testing, apparently given as the only reason
    for missing the fall product availability of the low temp domestic
    e cat is looking less certain by the day. Nine months ago the testing
    was reportedly going very well. This in a world of desktop cold fusion
    demontrations and kitchen microwaves.

    Of course there is non-disclosure and they could wait till the cows
    come home for a product this importance so don’t ask why.

    I still believe that there will soon be a domestic or small scale
    LENR/Cold fusion product available around the corner it looks like
    the next promise is to look at Brillouin who expected product availability by the end of 2012.

  • Ramsy

    I don’t beleive any thing until I see and touch it.

    • andreiko

      HOT-CAT touch??

      • Hal

        will that be coming out before or after the i-cat touch?

  • Miles

    The World Bank has warned the planet is on track to warm by four degrees this century – causing increasingly extreme heat waves, lower crop yields and rising sea levels – unless significant action is taken to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

    Read more:

    Will Rossi save the planet? More reason Rossi needs to Act NOW !!!

    • GreenWin

      Miles, no one person will “save” the planet – because as George Carlin reminded us… the planet is fine. It’s the people that’re…

      Part of the message in LENR is to dissolve fallacious fears that human beings are “bad.” That there are dwindling resources and we are all doomed to live in Calcutta-like ghettos if we do not immediately quit eating, bathing, procreating, and using energy.

      E-cat, Rossi, LENR, is more a change in consciousness than physical invention. We are learning there is enough. There is plenty. We live in an abundant universe. And with a little belief in goodness, and less fear in flawed human nature… there is plenty for everyone.

    • What if
      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Would not expect anything different from the Daily Mall

        • georgehants

          Bernie, that would seem like a ECN comment.
          What ever source information comes from it must be respected and checked from source before any factual point can be made.
          Science is not about opinions but Facts Evidence and Research.
          It is such comments that destroyed P&F and Cold Fusion 24 years ago.

      • David
        • MikeP

          Yep, there’s been warming since 1970. There’s been warming since the bottom of the little ice age. Why do you think warming will continue when the longer (centuries) trend in temperature seems to be down and the oceanic drivers are turning negative (oceanic cycles control release of heat into the atmosphere from the much larger heat reservoirs that the oceans represent).

    • Robert Mockan

      Before the end of the 21st Century mind transfer to synthetic bodies will be fact, and the equipment to do so made available to all people. Those bodies will run on electricity, probably a nuclear powered battery in the body. They will be faster, stronger, smarter, and as virtually indestructible as they can be designed. There will be no overpopulation, no global environmental catastrophe, no food crises. Just a few thousand decadent insane oligarchs without slaves, who will most likely be quarantined on Earth while the billions of free people travel throughout the galaxies for the next millions of years. People who do not understand what trans-humanism is, and how it is unavoidable, and the changes that will come with it, are living in a dead past with no future.

      • Ramsy

        Thanks God I will not be in this world at that terrible time.

      • David Jensen

        As I look to the future I’m reminded of our past. Past wars should have taught us that no good comes from war. In the 60’s we were shown jet packs and flying cars as a few brilliant individuals shot for the moon. As much as I would like to believe the human race has the ability to save itself, I wake with the reality that the majority of humans are frozen in a fundamentalist time capsule. Our race today is far too self-destructive to realize what we can only imagine today. The naive side of me hopes for cold fusion but $4.4 trillion per year of fossil fuel says it is not going to happen easily.

      • Roger

        Disagree. The number of connections possible in a human brain is greater than the atoms in the universe. Simulating that in the fastest supercomputer (today or prob tomorrow) is impossible and I believe it wil remain so. You can currently simulate the behavior of a nemotode worm or something similar with a few hundred or so neurons.
        What will save the planet is actually I believe ourselves. The elephant in the room is over population, although no one really wants to talk about it (all too political). We are however slowly poisoning ourselves – everyone in the developed world knows a couple who are receiving fertility treatment. There is some as to yet undiscovered unknown chemical we are releasing into the environment that is causing humans to become less fertile.
        Not such a bad thing but I would much rather have some kind of controlled way of depopulation such as education and or licensing – it strikes me as very strange when you have to take a rigerous theory and pratical test to drive a car but can become a parent without any such formalities. The latter being a much bigger thing than driving!!!
        I can see civilisation crashing (as our numbers drop) but the human race surviving – we are quite resilient as a spicies. I just hope that all the knowledge gained is not all lost as it was in previous eras, such as when the great library in Alexadria was ransacked (I think this happened a few times).
        There is of course the other concern, the point when machines become smarter than us – which may happen in this lifetime. They are of course much faster than us (silicon is faster than organic protein messages) but they have not yet been big enough to think – maybe is someone creates a silicon neural network with enough critical mass it may start to think if given the right stimulus. This is different to trying to be human. Machine intelligence would not need all the compexities of being humen such as emotions, you could create a fundemental intelligence with a much smaller order of magnitude number of neurons than a human brain.Should this ever happen or be allowed to happen then all bets are off as to whether we survive or not.

        • Joel C.

          That’s linear thinking at its best.

          Very intelligent people in the past thought like you do now and they have been proven very wrong.

      • freethinker

        You havent’t possibly been reading books by Peter F Hamilton, have you ? 😉

        • Robert Mockan

          Not unless he published before the mid 1960s.
          The “bible” of the original Life Extension Foundation, and the Cryonics movement, of which I was a member before the government shut it down for also selling drugs to extend life and enhance good health, is The Prospect of Immortality, by Robert Ettinger. That book, along with Profiles of The Future, by Arthur Clark, were among the first in my personal library I started keeping from that time. They would be a good place to start, even today, for young people wanting to get a heads up on the promise the future holds.

  • GreenWin

    Looks like more details from Piantelli indicate a secondary material, either boron or lithium is used to increase proton dependent heat initiated by proton capture reactions. One reaction is:
    H + 1B -> 12C + 15.957 MeV

    For Lithium:
    H + 7Li -> 8Be(a) + 17.255

    Piantelli claims the distance between first and second materials (in cm) determines the the efficacy of the secondary reaction and contribution to total heat. Ruby is carrying the patent details at Cold Fusion Now! Thanks Ruby.

    It would appear that we will see many different manifestations of LENR heat in commercial and experimental products. All of which bodes well according to the new understanding of energy abundance. I therefor have an increasing pessimism toward use of fission, and fossils.

    • Sandy

      The Patterson Power Cell contained lithium sulfate (Li2SO4). Patterson was granted a U.S. patent on his “cold fusion” device. His patent cites the Fleischmann/Pons cold fusion patent.

      The perforated aluminum sheet that Nanospire is using in its collapsing-cavitation-bubble device probably contains about 10 percent boron.

      Palladium electrodes alloyed with boron yield the best results in F/P type cold fusion cells.

      Lithium and boron appear to be catalysts for cold fusion/LENR reactions.

      Is boron Rossi’s secret catalyst?

      • GreenWin

        Sandy, where have you been?

        • just passed by New York to see friends?

          Sorry for the dark humor… hope people there manage. (not easy. seen similar turmoil 26dec1999).

      • Peter_Roe

        Possibly not the catalyst but like Piantelli, AR does appear to use boron for energy capture:

        “[0030] In particular, the inventive apparatus is coated by boron layers and lead plates both for restraining noxious radiations and transforming them into energy, without generating residue radiations and radioactive materials.”

      • Peter_Roe

        Possibly the phrase “noxious radiations” is rather inadvisable if at some point you may want to gain safety certification for home use.

  • Lu

    The longer Rossi goes without a independent third party report validating his claims or a respected established company using his product the less likely Rossi has what he claims to have so I voted I’m increasingly pessimistic.

    I’ve always believed Rossi has some sort of LENR effect. It’s just whether he has a device which is commercial that is the question. It’s not hard to believe that Rossi has cherry picked previous LENR research and perhaps even improved upon it but the rest is quite possibly Rossi’s attempt to establish commerciality and enrich himself in the process. Rossi exhibits behavior that is indistinguishable from a scammer and the longer I watch this the more this appears to be true. I believe Rossi is only using the Internet to lure investors and never really intended to market a home E-Cat as he knew what head winds he would have to overcome.

    In short I don’t care much for Rossi although I hope he is successful. I am waiting patiently for the report which could change everything.

    • freethinker

      I agree with the pessemistic feeling. It somtimes hit me too. I have however reconsiled my ambivalence and hopes and today I would say that AR have the goods, more or less as he claim them to be.

      But does he really bear the mark of a scammer? Doesn’t his behaviour fit better to a battle scared inventor, knowing what he has and what kind of relentless opposition he will be facing? Just take a minute and ponder the real implication of the Bushnell event descibed below.

      I too think there will be no homecats, as the people buing into AR now will not want to see that ( or so I conjecture).
      Plz just AR do his thing. In the end, it will not matter. LENR is real.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I say that Rossi need only satisfy his customers….especially since he’s still in the developmental phase.

      • John-xyz

        I agree with you but – why has he exaggerated (at best) and lied (at worst) to the people who want him to succeed?

        • Adam Lepczak

          Past history + history + the lack of appropriate patents + the implications of the LENR technology…
          Yeah, these are the reasons I think that make him blow as much smoke as possible.

      • Lu

        Fine, but why all the hot air (and not from the E-Cat) and chatter from Rossi?

        According to Rossi he’s in the commercial phase which is where I point out his deception might lie.

        Rossi also has stated, for a revolution to succeed it must be popular. Well the people are waiting….

        • GreenWin

          Well, Lu, the world’s best minds, greatest scientists, most august academics, along with some $274 BILLION dollars of the people’s money – promised us 60 years ago, “unlimited, clean, energy” like that which powers the stars.

          Okay. At more than 10X Rossi’s development time – we still have ZERO, ZED, absolutely nothing in the way of useful energy from any version of hot fusion. Deception? Lies?? Deliberate misdirection? Using tax dollars for undisclosed, unsupervised (nefarious) purposes????

          Let’s get honest. Hot fusion (and other) “programs” have established the foundation. The behavior of the loftiest orthodoxy is far more suspect than that of an ambitious entrepreneur from Italy.

          The people are indeed, waiting.

      • dominik

        does this mean he can lie? everybody got amnesia ? what happened to units in Home Depot by end of 2012 and factory building minion units? Were are independent test results promised ? Japan is spending billions for its power production from oil and dealing with atomic disasters … don’t you think they would suport and sponsor any real technology or inventor that would help them to be independent and produce cheaper energy? China is implementing medical research, development and therapies that big pharma is fighting … they don’t care about big oil … if they see technology that would made production cheaper they would go for it with all they money resources and government controlled scientists

  • Pedro

    I presume most of you have seen the video of James Martinez telling the story about being threatened by NASA’s Dennis Bushnell.

    Near the end of that video James Martinez also says that he was “in a cold fusion lab” in the north of California, where they are developping what he calls the “Rolls Royce” of the LENR devices.
    Anybody any idea who/what he is talking about?

    • freethinker

      This is indeed interesting.

      We are walking through a hall of mirrors here.

      The future will be a real spinner.

    • He previously interviewed the fellas at Brillouin (Bay area, CA), but “giving away” the technology does not seem to fit their model.

    • walker

      Mr. Martinez does not come across as believable.

      • Andre Blum

        Admittedly, the bushnell story would have been more believable when he had refrained from telling that second unbelievable thing of meeting the producer of the Saints by chance.

    • GreenWin

      It does appear that interested parties are battling. NASA seems to want to take credit for LENR via the W-L theory and their own patent apps. Piantelli has filed new patent apps with interesting details about secondary materials in his generator.

      There are clearly big players vying for commercial rights. Any suggestion that Rossi’s e-cat is the only game in commercial LENR is foolish. He is working with a team of government and industry scientists – who are planning to introduce commercial products. THIS will get the technology into the hands of the people faster than any other method. Especially a government monopoly.

    • Andre Blum

      Just my luck: I trade Hilversum for a nice island in the Caribbean, and they hold an international cold fusion conference there.