Lewis Larsen Presentation on the Widom-Larson Theory at ANS Conference

Here is a slideshow and audio of a presentation by Lewis Larsen, President and CEO of Lattice Energy LLC, which was given yesterday at a meeting at the American Nuclear Society conference in San Diego, California. His talk covers the basics of the Widom Larsen theory of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, an how it may be involved in ‘electroweak neutron production’ in lightning.

  • David Farnsworth

    These are some of the best explanations that I’ve seen yet my hat is off to these scientist that put these explanations together…

    Best regards
    And please keep up the good work

  • georgehants

    For those who like to believe that the Quantum only involves the micro world.
    First teleportation between macroscopic objects leads the way to a quantum internet.
    By James Plafke on November 15, 2012
    The long-range teleportation barrier has already been broken multiple times, but the information being transported, such as a single quantum bit (qubit), has always been relatively small, usually between two photons. This time around, a team of physicists have managed to transport information from one macroscopic (visible to the naked eye) object to another for the first time, potentially leading us towards the first quantum network.

  • AB
    • LittleKangaroo


      We all need to sign this!!!

      Put it as a top story in here so everybody sees it.
      You have thousands of viewers and it could help a lot I think..

  • Goro

    When persona from different culture lie, he never remember what lie he lied one week back.

    Last “dialectial” issue:

    3 weeks old question: Which element is produced mostly in reactor ? answer: NICKEL

    1 day old question: Can Nickel mass increase ?
    answer: NO

    • possible explanation: one nickel isotope transmutes into another one, for example 2p+Ni64->Ni62+He4+11.8 MeV

      • GreenWin

        Some people see their role in life to convince others of the deceit of human nature. They are better known as misanthropes – and are deeply threatened by human enlightenment.

  • Gérard2012

    Hic! I drank my two bottles of champagne that I had put in fridge, sniff! I’m delivering a barrel of champagne, GI share well with me, hic!

    in French by goooogle

    Hic! j’ai bu mes deux bouteilles de champagne que j’avais mis au réfrigirateur, snif! Je me fais livrer une barrique de champagne, les GI partageront bien avec moi, hic!

  • Alan DeAngelis

    This isn’t very likely but could the neutrons formed during lightning discharges be formed by the following reactions?

    O(16) + O(16) > S(31) + n 1.5 MeV

    O(16) + O(17) > S(32) + n 12.4 MeV

    O(16) + O(18) > S(32) + 2n 4.35 MeV

    O(16) + O(18) > S(33) + n 13.00 MeV

    N(14) + N(14) > Si(27) + n 10.0 MeV

    N(14) + N(15) > Si(28) + n 16.4 MeV

  • georgehants

    Any meaning in Mr. Rossi’s last sentence beyond the obvious.
    Andrea Rossi
    November 15th, 2012 at 2:11 PM
    Dear Mark Saker:
    1- The prototype we are making, fueled by gas, will weight about 1 tonn (I hope).
    2- If we will be able to make 1 MW/tonn I will be very happy.
    3- The prototype we are making will be (gas fueled) 2 meters long, 1 meter wide, 1 meter hight (I hope). These dimensions will enclose the primary fluid ready to go to the heat exchanger to heat the secondary circuit’s fluid.
    That’s what I hope and to make the hope reality we are working like Americans in the Navy’s factories in the year 1942, after Pearl Harbour.
    Warm Regards,

    • AB

      More references to the US navy. In line with the rumors about NRL being the customer.

      • Ged

        On the other hand, it may be nothing more than an allusion to how rapidly American naval factories were churning out Liberty class ships: once every seven or so days at the height of ship production. An immense engineering, and work effort, marvel.

    • clovis

      Man what a statment , whats going on in the navy’s factors, I would love to be a fly on the wall there , I hope they are recording it for further viewing. –smile

    • Jim

      I’m not getting a picture the primary / secondary fluid setup. If the Hot Cat is about 800c plus? then the primary fluid would be…what? at what temperature? to maintain the heat of the secondary fluid, which is what? as what temperature?

      Any thoughts?

      • If the temp really is 800C, the options for the primary coolant are pretty much limited to liquid salts or metals such as lead, or possibly CO2 under pressure. The engineering would be v. difficult and my guess would be a running temp of 3-400C with a coolant such as some kind of pressurised glycol or silicone oil, or maybe CO2 (technically still a ‘fluid’). Rather than reinventing the wheel, if the NRL is involved, maybe they are adapting a compact marine nuclear boiler design?

        • AB

          Lead would make it heavy. Rossi is concerned about weight for reasons possibly related to the intended use of the reactor.

          • Ged

            Which is curious. Keeping weight down isn’t too important for say a stationary ground location like a factory or power plant. But for certain other applications certain entities are interested in… Hm.

            • Peter_Roe

              The first application will probably be something much more mundane, such as a 300kW genset!

              As for weight, gas cooling would be lightest, but relatively bulky (finned heat exchangers and external turbine compressors) and power-hungry. For marine propulsion though (as well as fixed installations) neither weight nor volume of ancillaries would be important.

              • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

                It would be interesting if lead as a working primary heat exchanger fluid was used. A Russian sub used this in 1959.

        • Jim

          “adapting a compact marine nuclear boiler design”


      • I’m pretty sure the secondary will be water/steam in a heat exchange boiler.

      • Robert Mockan

        What fluids are being used depend on the reactor temperature, and who the customer is.

        If commercial the temperature would be lower range and the heat exchange fluid would be some synthetic compound stable to perhaps 400 C. But if military they might go with NAK, a mixture of sodium and potassium, that is stable and liquid from 65 C to 750 C.

        In either case the primary fluid would have a mass-flow rate sufficient to extract heat from the reactor to keep it within the desired lower limit and upper limit operating temperatures.

        The primary fluid then is the heat source for the secondary fluid (most likely water) that would be heated into dry steam to operate the heat engine, and condensed for reuse.

        The primary fluid recycles through the reactor and source-primary heat exchanger, and the secondary recycles through the primary-secondary heat exchanger, the heat engine for conversion to shaft power, and the secondary-sink heat exchanger (also called the condenser). If there is recuperation then there may be other heat exchangers in the system.

        Sounds more complicated than it is. A military project would operate the reactor at a high temperature, but probably not above 700 C, in which case the primary fluid might be NAK.

        That is a metal mixture of sodium and potassium that is liquid from about 65 C to 750 C, and is an excellent heat exchange fluid for high temperature because it is liquid at atmospheric pressure and stable at all temperatures. Using it also enables fast feedback control in the primary heat extraction loop because it can be made the armature of an electromagnetic pump and the mass-flow rate rapidly changed by simply boosting the pump power.

        If the reactor operates between 400 C and 800 C, the outlet NAK temperature would be near the upper limit, and the inlet temperature not below 400 C so as to not shut the reactor down. NAK is also a liquid at atmospheric pressure, and that would be important to keep the power system weight down, since it can be used without heavy pressure pipes.

        The primary-secondary heat exchanger would be the piping of the mono-tube flash boiler immersed in the hot NAK. By varying the mass flow of water through the mono-tube boiler, the NAK temperature would be dropped from 600 C to 400 C before exiting for return to the reactor. The water and steam would most likely have counter-current mass-flow so it would exit the boiler near 600 C, for maximum Carnot efficiency in the heat engine.

        What I am describing is only one of many possibilities, but given the constraints Rossi mentions about total weight, and the 1 MW per ton he is aiming for, it is a likely design in my opinion.

        That is military, that does not have a problem with the more exotic materials used in power systems. If commercial, the reactor most likely would not operate much above 400 C in the primary heat exchanger. But everything else in the design could be similar to the military version.

      • Robert Mockan

        Last comment disappeared. To make a long story shorter, it depends on the customer and application. If military they might go with NAK for the primary heat exchange fluid. Everything else in the design would be standard Rankine system hardware.

    • GreenWin

      OK. This confirms it. Navy has a time machine.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      “We’re on our way and we can’t turn back.”
      The Doors

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      This is too much of a coincidence, I think Rossi is giving us a hint about what is going down. The US military is deeply involved in his research.

      • Hampus

        Three things that are very important for a naval ship is weight, dimensions and easy stored fuel (gas would be easier to store then electricity).

        • I don’t think that weight is terribly important in a ship. Given a choice between electricity producing GasCat and somewhat less electricity producing HotCat with a battery array (for buffering the fed-back electric energy), the naval choice would be the HotCat because it gives infinite range. In my opinion the GasCat points more towards ground-based civil powerplants in a country where gas energy is much cheaper than electric energy.

          In any application weight is never unimportant though, since it affects the raw material and transportation costs of the device. If they swap the whole device every 6 months, transportation costs have a role.

          • Peter_Roe

            Large ships need to carry thousands of tonnes of bunker oil or diesel in addition to the weight of engines and their ancillary equipment, so not having to carry fuel means that weight is unimportant. In fact, retro-fitted warships would probably need ballast to maintain their trim.

    • Goro

      These gas-cats must be transportable by Dodge Ram (so about 1 tonne) and will be used to heating oilsands/shale oil directly in the field operation

  • georgehants

    Does science need ‘open evaluation’ before ‘open access?’
    Thursday, 15 November 2012

  • Chris


  • Gerrit

    other presenters were

    Steven Krivit

    Domenico Cirillo

    Yasuhiro Iwamura, Takehiko Itoh (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd.), Y. Terada (Japan Synchrotron Radiation Research Institute), T. Ishikawa (Coherent X-ray Optics Laboratory, SPring-8/RIKEN)

    that last one looks interesting, I wonder if we can get our hands on their paper…

    I also wonder who was in the panel and what the outcome of the discussion was.

  • David

    Theory: Widom Larsen theory, and controversies

    • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

      I actually support the Yeong E. Kim theory of Cold Fusion. Both Widom Larsen and Yeong work from warm temperature Bose – Einstein condensate but diverge from there. However most physicists will argue that Bose – Einstein can only occur in low temperature situations. Cold Fusion is evidence that the effect can occur in lattices in high temperatures. http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=501

      • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

        The WL theory predicts huge numbers of neutrinos. However, they are virtually indetectable.

        • Mark

          I expected some new scientific explanations how
          Bose-Einstein condensate can be created and
          kept stabilized at room temperatures in a lattice, not in the stars…how much energy we need to pump
          into protons to make them a single entity, to move in sync
          … also, some lab results/calc how
          a thin electron layer can totally shield from
          gamma radiation.

        • clovis

          Hi, Guys.
          I noticed back when Dr. Rossi was measuring the different kind of particals,waves and different rays that an odd amount of neutrino
          were being recorded, they said at that time that they thought they were cosmic, so it adds viabality to WL T.
          just thought that was odd at the time.

          • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

            I may have to eat my hat.

          • Mark

            Read about neutrino detectors,
            their sizes and difficulties to
            measure non-cosmic neutrinos.

            • clovis

              Thanks, Mark,
              I remember that from a few years back.

          • Chris

            Er… quick, before Ivone eats his hat: How was Rossi gauging the neutrino flux? It’s not exactly easy, actually. I doubt he was granted the assistance of LNGS or the few other detectors in circulation.

            In any case I would hardly doubt the emission of a neutrino flux. If it weren’t so frickin’ hard to detect them they would be quite revealing about which weak processes occur inside.

          • Ged

            Oh, he was actually measuring neutrons, not neutrinos. Quite a bit different, even if the names are so deceptively similar!

            • Chris

              He’s been watching out for neutrons, as Focardi always urged him to, but like others in the game he doesn’t see many being emitted. According to the WL conjecture they get absorbed long before they get anywhere far.

              • clovis

                Hi, Guys.
                Just wanted to add this, i thought was importaint in regards to neutrino’s

                Ionizing (or ionising) radiation is radiation composed of particles that individually carry enough energy to liberate an electron from an atom or molecule, ionizing it. Ionizing radiation is generated through nuclear reactions, either artificial or natural, by very high temperature (e.g. the corona of the Sun), or via production of high energy particles in particle accelerators, or due to acceleration of charged particles by the electromagnetic fields produced by natural processes, from lightning to supernova explosions.
                When ionizing radiation is emitted by or absorbed by an atom, it can liberate a particle (usually an electron, but sometimes an entire nucleus) from the atom. Such an event can alter chemical bonds and produce ions, usually in ion-pairs, that are especially chemically reactive. This greatly magnifies the chemical and biological damage per unit energy of radiation.
                Ionizing radiation includes cosmic rays, alpha, beta and gamma rays, X-rays, and in general any charged particle moving at relativistic speeds. Neutrons are considered ionizing radiation at any speed. Ionizing radiation includes some portion of the ultraviolet spectrum, depending on context. Radiowaves, microwaves, infrared light, and visible light are normally considered non-ionizing radiation, although very high intensity beams of these radiations can produce sufficient heat to exhibit some similar properties to ionizing radiation, by altering chemical bonds and removing electrons from atoms.
                Ionizing radiation is ubiquitous in the environment, and comes from naturally occurring radioactive materials and cosmic rays. Common artificial sources are artificially produced radioisotopes, X-ray tubes and particle accelerators. Ionizing radiation is invisible and not directly detectable by human senses, so instruments such as Geiger counters are usually required to detect its presence. In some cases it may lead to secondary emission of visible light upon interaction with matter, such as in Cherenkov radiation and radioluminescence. It has many practical uses in medicine, research, construction, and other areas, but presents a health hazard if used improperly. Exposure to ionizing radiation causes damage to living tissue, and can result in mutation, radiation sickness, cancer, and death.

                • clovis

                  Hi, guys,
                  I know that was a long read but very revailing as to what may be going on here.
                  This may have been the reson Mr.Rossi would’ent let the guy use a geigar counter, in the very first demo. ya think, smile.

              • Mark

                Neutrons cannot be fully absorbed by
                the thin, nano-layer of electrons
                (SPP plasma)- neutrons are electrically neutral and cross-section of effect is small. WL theory
                claims only that gamma and x-rays are
                totally scattered and thermolized
                by the electron plasma layer.
                This fact can be easily proved or
                disproved by an experiment with
                a plasma in a tube with the same
                density as in a hydride layer.
                The tube has to be placed in a
                lead box and a source of an x-rays
                has to radiate this little tube
                placed in a small window in a lead box.
                On the other side of the window
                you place a photo-detector.
                All this is not a rocket science.
                Professor Kim offered three complex
                tests to prove his conjectures,
                this one is very straightforward
                and can help to falsify both
                WL and Kim without much efforts.
                The avoidance of such simple
                experiment beats me.