Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project Starts Celani Replication

As the MFMP continues its work on demonstrating the reality of LENR as viable source of energy they are chronicling their progress on their quantumheat.org website. At the moment they are focusing their efforts on replicating Francesco Celani’s LENR reactor and right now it looks like the are in the calibration stages of the experiment.

Here’s a description from their site on how they are proceeding:

The purpose of our initial replication is to convince ourselves that the effect is real and that we can re-create it. If we convince others with our first replication, that’s great, but it is not the most important goal. There are innumerable questions about Celani’s wire and the phenomenon of it producing heat that demand an almost infinite number of variations on the experiment. Our aim is to develop the apparatus and the methodology to demonstrate to our own satisfaction that this is real and worth the effort of facilitating the widespread replications.

We did not recreate the apparatus exactly as he had it partly at Celani’s own urging that we make it safer. We added a safety shield and used quartz glass so tolerate higher temperatures

Below is a video of the unboxing of the Celani reactor that was sent to the European part of the team.

[youtube]PtTx1zNn_dY[/youtube]

I hear there will be more coming from the MFMP as they attempt to bring more visibility to their work.

  • Barry

    In our technological age there is a questing going on like the knights of old searching for the Holy Grail. Many knights fell short because of their power hunger. Depending on which story you prefer, it was sometimes the most humble knight who found the Grail. The intuition needed for such a quest sometimes requires non-greed and pure intentions like doing what will benefit society at large.

    We are so fortunate to discuss and watch this story unfolding. To me, the last discovery of this magnitude was Einstein’s General Relativity and the amazing story of those astronomers that set out to substantiate his theory. It took 8 years for the conditions to just right to photograph the sun during a total eclipse and show the stars bending through the warping of spacetime. Many predicted nothing would come of it (sound familiar).

    Let’s face it, many of us interested in this story are not spring chickens. This New Fire will probably be one of the greatest, if not the greatest scientific story we will ever witness. Maybe it’s unrealistic but I hope those with the best intentions for humanity and pure science are the finders. Perhaps this guy opening the box will be one of them.

  • andreiko

    Geachte Dr Rossi,

    De hierna volgende vragen en opmerkingen plaats ik omdat ik overtuigd ben van de commerciele mogelijkheden van zowel de E-CAT en HOT-CAT.
    Het koppelen van kleine reactoren om een grootvermogen te bereiken
    kan niet uw ideaal zijn het dwingt u tot veel materiaal gebruik met als gevolg veel kosten en een grotere kans op storingen enz…

    Vermoedelijk zit u met het probleem dat u de energie van 1 groot reactievat voor bijvoorbeeld 1MW niet aan de omgeving kunt afstaan, waardoor de reactie door oververhitting tot stilstand komt.
    Wat ik mij afvraag of het mogelijk opgelost kan worden door koelbuizen in de reactiekamer te brengen dus energie transport van uit de reactiekamer en niet vanaf de buitenkant van de reactiekamer.Hopende dat u op mijn vraag kunt reageren verblijf ik in afwachting.Voor het overige wens ik u en uw medewerkenden het grootste succes wat denkbaar is.

    • Andreiko

      andreiko on November 4, 2012 at 12: 57 pmDear Dr. Rossi,The following questions and comments I place because I am convinced of the commercial potential of both the E-CAT and HOT-CAT.Linking small reactors to a great ability to reachcan’t your ideal it forces you to use with a lot of material due to many expenses and a greater likelihood of failures etc. ..Presumably you with the problem that the energy of 1 large reaction vessel, for example, not to cede the area, allowing 1MW the comment by overheating comes to a standstill.What I wonder if it’s possible can be solved by cooling tubes in the reaction Chamber to bring so energy transport from the reaction chamber and not from the outside of the reaction Chamber.Hoping that you can respond to my question stay I pending.For the rest, I wish you and your fellow workers the largest success what is conceivable.

      • Dickyaesta

        @Andreiko, thanks for putting up both english and dutch version. This time the english version is reasonable readable
        D

  • Omega Z

    Another interesting post.

    Paul, November 3rd, 2012 at 8:24 PM

    Andrea, In previous discussions you have expressed an interest in high energy photon direct conversion by means of a photo electric cell similar to the one described in expired U.S. patent 4178524.
    Have you made any progress in this regard? Paul

    Andrea Rossi November 3rd, 2012 at 10:26 PM

    Dear Paul:
    We have a team who is working specifically on this issue. Yes, we made progress, even if we are not ready with a working prototype, bu we have obtained a direct current someway. Much work to do. Honestly, we started from an idea of yours that I read on a paper you sent me.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

  • Omega Z

    A question to Rossi

    Dear Dr. Rossi:
    Will this new partner be using single 1Mw units or paralleled for large generating capacity.

    Will they be System Distributors or Energy wholesalers.
    —————————————————
    Andrea Rossi, November 2nd, 2012 at 8:27 AM

    Dear Omega Z:
    Paralleled and single, mainly but not exclusively wholesalers.
    Warm Regards, A.R.

    Rossi’s answer leaves room for plenty of speculation as this partner apparently will be operating units as small a 1Mw or as large as they see fit.

    • freethinker

      “… not exclusively wholesalers.”

      May it be interpreted as that 1MW units can be bought as is? This could possibly be good news for groups of households going together to invest for energy production locally transported by local grid/heat net.

      • Karl

        I expect that the idea to create local electricity would be easy feasible but distribute hot water even short distances between single dwellings (villas) may demand serious investments. The cost could easily be higher than the investment in the E-Cat hardware. The short term solution would perhaps be to use the existing local electrical networks or build a new cable infrastructure in parallel.

        On the contrary to use the hot water and electricity production for the energy supply for multi dwelling units for homes, business, hospitals, schools/academies would be hand on glow market segment for the 1 MW Hot Cat, to my mind.

  • JamesThomas

    The Hunt Utilities Group, who are members of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project, are the ones doing this fantastic, open-to-all, Celani replication work. These guys are real heroes in my book.

    Here is a great little introduction video of the team: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=26k3Cz3wW-8

    I (a non-technical layman who would like to see a better life for my grandchildren) personally hope that all who want to somehow contribute to the advancement of LENR, go to the MFMP site and contribute a few dollars and or knowledge to help this noble effort along.

    http://www.quantumheat.org/

    • freethinker

      Yes,

      It is a very promising effort they have going there. I wish them all success.

      Went there, registered, and donated $100. Felt good! :)

      • Barry

        Good man freethinker.

  • georgehants

    It must be clear that Mr. Rossi is going out of his way to answer questions as best he can.
    Is there not any scientist who can interpret what he is saying.
    I look forward to intelligent answers
    ——
    Herb Gillis
    November 3rd, 2012 at 11:25 AM
    Andrea Rossi:
    You said that you enrich the fuel in the heavy (rare) isotoptes (62 and 64) of nickel. This sounds like an expensive and energy intensive pre-process. Can you tell us how this effects the overall energy balance of the reaction? In other words; what percentage of energy liberated must be used in the isotope separation? Can you tell us anything about what isotope separation process you use? If you are making large plants you must be doing a lot of isotope separation. Finally; do you have evidence that the heavy isotopes are being consumed selectively? If so; to what end product (since transmutation to copper does not account for the energy produced)?
    Regards; HRG.
    —-
    Andrea Rossi
    November 3rd, 2012 at 7:57 PM
    Dear Herb Gills:
    1- irrilevant, since we produce nuclear energy while consume electro-chemical energy
    2- no
    3- no
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • georgehants

      I have put up a very fair comment that is waiting moderation, I look forward to its appearance,

    • GreenWin

      George, I sense the skeps are being put to a test. The scale is planetary and if they are wise, they will embrace the prospect of low cost abundant energy for all.

      The alternative is not pleasant.

    • Lukedc

      Rossi is simply stating that no matter what measure of energy he consumes enriching his fuel it is an electro chemical process.
      His LENR device is magnitudes of order more capable at releasing energy as we are working with atomic energy.
      Interprit that how you will.
      It still all comes down to Rossi says.
      I for one do hope it is true.
      Good luck to all new fire projects coming on stream.

      • sparky

        Enriching uranium (U235 vs U238) is a similar “electro chemical” process, and it is not easy! Perhaps unprocessed nickel is sufficient to fuel the tepid, yet sufficient, reaction? Mr. Rosssi would surprise me if he had done work at the isotope level.

        • Lukedc

          Sparky, I assume your talking about using a centrifuge to seperate isotopes? No matter what, I assume that you havent considered this in its entirety. He’s not enriching for a weapons program. Rossi doesnt need the entirety of the active mass to go critical. LOL Were talking about a next gen heater. Think about it again..

    • captain

      Provided that Mr. Rossi is not an Info Agency :-) he has to protect his IP without disclosing E-Cat secrets in advance of due time.
      That said … plz consider that he has already spoken too much, IMO, and one time more he demonstrates his politeness though in a some way with cryptic answer.

  • robyn wyrick
    • NJT

      The Mainstream Media inches closer to the realities of this phenomenon little by little…

    • Peter_Roe

      Another ‘ad’ for Widom-Larsen. Kribit will be behind it somewhere.

      ‘Whatever it is, it’s not cold fusion – OK?’

  • GreenWin

    OFFTOPIC:

    Starting a week from tomorrow at the 2012 ANS Winter Meeting and Nuclear Technology Expo “Future Nuclear Technologies: Resilience and Flexibility”

    8:55 A.M.
    Electroweak Neutron Production via e + p → n + ν and Capture
    During Lightning Discharges, Lewis G. Larsen (Lattice Energy LLC)
    9:20 A.M.
    Slow Neutron Generation by Plasma Excitation in Electrolytic Cell,
    Domenico Cirillo (Cirillo_lab)
    9:45 A.M.
    Transmutation Reactions Induced by Deuterium Permeation
    Through Nano-Structured Pd Multilayer Thin Film, Yasuhiro
    Iwamura, Takehiko Itoh (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd.), Y. Terada
    (Japan Synchrotron Radiation Research Institute), T. Ishikawa (Coherent X-ray
    Optics Laboratory, SPring-8/RIKEN)
    PANEL DISCUSSION
    10:10 A.M.
    This session will explore the surprising possibility that highly
    energetic nuclear reactions and elemental transmutations result from
    low-energy nuclear reactions (LENRs). Although the term was not
    used a century ago, examples of LENRs go back that far. LENRs are
    weak interactions and neutron-capture processes that occur in
    nanometer-to-micron scale regions on surfaces in condensed matter
    at room temperature. Although nuclear, LENRs are not based on
    fission or any kind of fusion, both of which primarily involve the
    strong interaction.
    ****

    Since this is a Kirvit/Larsen production they are pitching their “it’s not fusion” idea. Of course it’s fusion, look at the nuclear products. Anyway, it’s good to have LENR presented in some form at the American Nuclear Society – putting them WELL ahead of the sulking APS.

    • freethinker

      Nice find.

      The topics seem to be spot on. I find the choise of wording funny though in ” surprising possibility”.
      Well, only since 1989 has this been known :)

      It would be nice to get hands on any preprints for any resulting proceedings.

      • Peter_Roe

        20-odd years of suppression, ridicule and character assassination – gone in a puff of smoke now that fossil fuels and nuclear power are becoming more liability than asset.

    • buffalo

      yes mr greenwin.i think these guys are getting closer to the fundamentals of lenr by focusing on neutrons here because realy,it is only a neutron or something that acts like a neutron that has high probability of initiating a coulomb breach reaction(nuke)

  • Gerrit

    I am on the list of donors and it makes me feel very good to be able to contribute something other than just blog posts :-)

    • John-xyz

      Nice work. If this actually works (I’d say that it’s about 50/50) then they can get some sort of buy your own system, add 20% and start to make a small profit.

      The thing is though, that this happened back in the 90′s. You can read about it in Usenet archives. I was following it back then. People were trying to create their own cold fusion experiments, after a few years of following I gave up on waiting for something to happen.

      Maybe this time.

      • clovis

        oh , it works alritgh , no dought in my mind and i been following Dr. rossi for a very long time now.
        he is the leader in this field, one 1mw plant alredy sold to U.S. navy, and satified costmure i might add. nobody is putting up the power that he is, you can order one of these devices right now
        SATIFACTION garanteed or no money passes hands,-smile he will build to your spect’s. mit has had one running for a year or so c. they had it.all this time and kept it suppresed.

        • Pedro

          Are you saying MIT had a 1Mw Rossi container running for 1 year??? Or are you refering to the Nanor?

  • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

    I am pleased to see a group working on a simple replication. Two parts of this report frustrate me, however. They are:
    “The purpose of our initial replication is to convince ourselves that the effect is real and that we can re-create it.”
    and
    “There are innumerable questions about Celani’s wire and the phenomenon of it producing heat that demand an almost infinite number of variations on the experiment.”

    This gives me that agonizing feeling that these guys feel it necessary to test every variation on the theme before declaring the validity of their replication. This patient, scientific, approach turns weeks into decades. Lets get a good open proof, and declare that LENR is a valid phenomenon already! Oh yea, a nice open proof is sitting at an open lab at MIT, but for some reason that isn’t good enough.

    I must admit to becoming very frustrated with the wall of ignorance that LENR must jump over. It really feels that Rossi’s approach, bringing something onto the market, is the only way of efficiently convincing the world, especially the scientific world, that this technology is valid.

    • Jim

      The purpose of MFPM is to create and publish a procedure that can be reliably replicated by many parties.

      I would rather see them relentlessly drive it out than rush ahead and end up where Fleischmann and Pons did.

      Check out their site. They seem to be fully on top of it, and highly focused on supporting mass replication at an early date.

      • Barry

        If replication can be obtained the rest is history. I’m quite fond of my woodstove. I don’t really care when I get a home unit. If the above happens all will unfold.

    • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

      HI Bruce,

      We are convinced LENR is real. Others are not.

      What we need to be sure of, is that if we are going to do a public live replication funded socially, we need to ensure that the equipment supplied will work. This is merely about being responsible, diligent and credible. Shipping 5+ dud experiments would not be helpful.

      We need to show we can do it – by doing the process from start to finish, we can derive the full protocol for inexperienced but respected independent 3rd parties to maximise their chances of getting it right first time.

      We need fully independent 3rd parties to perform the tests because others may throw accusations that our experiments only showed positive because we aimed to do that. The third parties should have a plug and play experiment that is well documented. Then, afterwards, total freedom to challenge and expand the experiment in any way and with whatever equipment they choose – with no restrictions.

      The path we are taking is showing so many things, such as what can be shipped and how, what needs to be sourced from other suppliers, how different voltage/current might affect things, and it gives us redundancy and protection, even at this stage, from others that might wish to stop us.

      It gives time for people that can assist to learn of us and ensure the best success of the project in achieving its aim. It spans some of the geographies that are most active in this science. By having two at this stage, we double our potential success rate in a parallel way.

      We are not in a race, if others prove incontrovertibly in an internationally acceptable way, such that the technology is widely accepted and developed, then humanity is the better for it and the MFMP can work on its secondary aims of promoting the tech and its benefits.

      • clovis

        Hi, BOB,
        You guys are doing a great job,I am trying to keep up.
        But i have to admit a bit over my head, do you have time to give an up to date report for dummies,- smile

      • John-xyz

        Just out of curiousity, are you planning to sell kits? If so, are we talking $1000, $10,000, or $100,000?

        $1,000, I’d definitely buy one.

      • John-xyz

        One question: what is your *personal* opinion of the fact that Rossi will not send away some of his prototypes in sealed boxes to independent testers for public verification?

        • Omega Z

          Rossi isn’t the only 1 being tight lipped on certain Details. Most all in this field are. They just don’t blog about it.

          It should be noted that Celani isn’t open sourcing future works. Only this 1. He is working in collaboration with investors on advanced projects that wont be shared. For the same reason Rossi is. IP protection. They intend to bring a product to market.

          • Peter_Roe

            He (Celani) is not open sourcing his wire prep either – his PDF publication is very vague on essential details. This being the case, it is difficult to see how others will be able to follow MFPM in the event of successful replications, other than by making their own arrangements with Celani for obtaining treated wire samples.

            At no point will the full methodology enter the public domain on the current path, unless Celani chooses at some point to disclose the full preparation method in detail, or a third party manages to replicate it from the clues available.

        • Peter_Roe

          John-xyz

          But why would he do that? There would be no advantage to him in proving his technology (at his own expense) to ‘the public’, and a number of possible downsides. Also, by sending out ‘black boxes’ as you suggest there would be a great risk that a sealed box could be opened and his IP compromised.

          It would be all risk (and cost) and no gain from Rossi’s POV, so I’m not clear why you apparently think he should do it. Private demos seem to be available to genuine interested potential buyers, and that is all that is necessary.

      • Omega Z

        Bob Greenyer

        You should point out to those who question this approach, that it’s nice to have a working, 100% repeatable product, before striking out in new directions/approaches to improve upon it.

        Should you try something different that doesn’t work, You’ll never doubt the technology. Only the new approach. You’ll also have something to compare to & determine why something new works or doesn’t work. A very Solid reference point.

  • GreenWin

    Just signed up to the MFMP site where they are doing a fantastic job! This project should be monitored by EVERY open-minded college physics department with a mind to purchase a demo unit and use it to TEACH.

    Too many physics departments have head in sand, or follow delayed credit protocols like windup toys. THINK for yourself! Follow the evidence. Do not believe anything in mainstream press – it all comes from central intel office in violation of First Amendment.

    Congrats to the MFMP personnel – you ARE helping educate the uneducated.

    • Jim

      +1

      yep, they’re “hot” (well, we hope!)

    • HeS

      @:”open-minded college physics department”

      In addition, this is interdisciplinary project (heat and current measurement and control, nano-technology, LENR, statistical computation).

      • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

        I would add
        - engineering
        - manufacturing
        - software/hardware engineering
        - social media engagement
        - logistics
        - documentation
        - publishing
        etc etc.

    • Barry

      Well put GreenWin.

  • daniel maris

    Excellent news. This is real science as I view it. Not the corporate hype, the patent manipulation and the peer review prison. If they succeed it will be a real step forward for humanity.

  • Robert Mockan

    When they publicize making LENR active wire themselves, and use it in the test apparatus, what will the critics say then?

    • Jim

      The critics will initially say it was error or fraud.

      The purpose of MFPM is to create an experimental procedure that can be reliably replicated by *many* academic and commercial laboratories, of which there will potentially be thousands with the requisite skills and resources.

      I’m looking for when number of such claim of successful replication reaches about ten.

      At that point it will be REALLY interesting to see what the critics say.

      • http://lenrplans.wordpress.com/ Owen

        That would be about the time the ECN site goes tits up and the skeps jump ship.

        • Peter_Roe

          ECN went tits up long ago. The fact that their admin posted his suicide note a couple of days ago has not apparently made the slightest difference, and the pathoskeps are just carrying on regardless.

          An e-cat site that is run by someone who thinks the e-cat is bunk, and populated (with a few exceptions) by rabid anti-LENR shills and opinionated weirdos. I have no idea what Paul Story thinks is being achieved by leaving that mess running.

          • GreenWin

            Good guys tracking the weirdos?

  • georgehants

    Physics and Physicists
    ZapperZ’s physics blog on the world of Physics and Physicists.
    The first data from proton–lead collisions at the Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS) experiment at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN include a “ridge” structure in correlations between newly generated particles. According to theorists in the US, the ridge may represent a new form of matter known as a “colour glass condensate”.
    http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/ridges-in-high-energy-collisions.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/hNAhW+%28Physics+and+Physicists%29

  • Karl

    A very very interesting project to follow and support.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    If I heard it correctly, in Rossi’s patent application, he’s claiming that copper isotopes can be substituted for nickel isotopes as the ‘fuel’. I find that interesting because cupric hydride (CuH) is a very stable hydride that doesn’t decompose in water [like sodium hydride (NaH) does]. Cu+ is a soft acid and H- is a soft base so CuH has a very polarized bond by HSAB theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSAB_theory . Perhaps this helps it fuse. Constantan wire is 55% copper and 45% nickel. So maybe the following reactions could be taking place in your setup.

    H(1) + Cu(63) > Ni(60) + He(4) 3.8 MeV

    H(1) + Cu(65) > Ni(62) + He(4) 4.3 MeV

    • Alan DeAngelis

      PS
      Also Celani detects gamma rays when he uses deuterium instead of hydrogen.
      Maybe the following Oppenheimer-Phillips reactions are taking place:

      H(2) + Cu(63) > Cu(64) + H(1) 5.7 MeV
      Cu(64) > positron + Ni(64) + gamma ray
      Cu(64) > electron + Zn(64) + gamma ray

      H(2) + Cu(65) > Cu(66) + H(1) 4.8 MeV
      Cu(66) > electron + Zn(66) + 0.833 MeV gamma ray

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Oh, and be careful if this take place. The have life of Ni(63) is 100 years.

        H(2) + Cu(65) > Ni(63) + He(4) 9.0 MeV
        Ni(63) > electron + Cu(63)

        And finally:
        H(2) + Cu(63) > Ni(61) + He(4) 9.4 MeV

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Interesting. Some calculations:
      If only copper reacts in this way and if the metal is initially 50/50 Cu/Ni, then to run a 10 kW reactor for 6 months needs at least 53 grams of metal. At the end all copper has then turned to nickel. It’s a bit tight fit to Rossi’s numbers, I think he says only 20 grams charge in hotcat, and power was more like 15 kW.

      If also nickel would react in this way, isotopes Ni61, Ni62 and Ni64 could produce some small excess energy by He4 production. But the products would then be Co58, Co59 and Co61, of which Co58 and Co61 are beta-active with half-lives 71 days and 1.65 hours respectively.

      These reactions might be part of the solution. Maybe even the full solution, if the experimental results are different from what we think now.

  • Hampus

    Great video. Take the nerds love of unboxing videos plus fusionaparatus, how in the hell did they get anyone to deliver this from US to EU?

    • Sanjeev

      I guess they did not label it “Nuclear”.
      Else it would have gone to neverneverland instead of Europe.

      • GreenWin

        Nevada to the Warehouse 13, facility.

  • Lu

    I’ve been following the MFMP and these people not only know what they are doing but are really going the extra mile in telling us what they are doing. The best place to find status about their activities is here: http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow where they post daily, detailed updates about their progress.

    This is a rare opportunity to view science in action, IMO. They are bending over backwards to make their replication attempts open. I’m very impressed with their team and I hope they confirm Celani’s wire mechanism as a LENR device.

    • Jim

      +1

      Yes, everyone, please check it out.