Distributed Power Production a Huge E-Cat Benefit

In addition to the cost benefits that the E-Cat can bring, another tremendously important aspect of this technology is that is highly suited to allowing for distributed power production. The benefits of this are starkly apparent when we look at the aftermath of natural disasters like we are seeing in the post-Sandy chaos in the northeastern United States.

Four days after the storm there are still 3.3 million customers without electricity, and it could be weeks before power is fully restored. Centralized production of electricity requires that power be transmitted over long distances, and restoring power following a widespread storm of great power can take a great deal of time as transmission lines have to be reconnected. This is especially time consuming and labor intensive in large countries like the US where the grid spans thousands of miles, and much of the electricity transmission is via overhead wires rather than buried cable.

With a technology like the E-Cat there is a real possibility that the model of electricity production could change. There is the possibility of heat and power production at home. In a post-disaster scenario, this would be ideal. If your power plant was in your basement or outside your house, unless it was physically damaged your power would be available during and after a natural disaster. And even if home-based electricity generation is not possible or permitted, it would still be very feasible to have local power production — perhaps a plant for every small town, or even one for each housing subdivision or apartment building. Such an arrangement would mean that power losses would be much more isolated than they are now, especially if you could eliminate the need for overhead power lines which are the most susceptible to damage in high winds or heavy icing.

If we finally get to a point where there is a realization that the E-Cat is a real and viable source of power, its benefits will be obvious, and I am sure that when consumers, businesses and governments look at the possibilities it allows, distributed power generation will be one of its most attractive features. People who have lived through events like hurricane Sandy will likely be strong advocates of implementing a better way to produce and distribute power.

  • GreenWin

    Good authority informs that the several micro-CHP projects in Japan and Germany are forging ahead. The need for distributed, efficient heat and power is in great demand in both countries as they are both scrapping their nuclear fission programs. And there are very big energy players in the game.

    http://www.igu.org/Japan%202%20full%20text.pdf

    To start Tokyo and Osaka Gas companies are both working with Panasonic and Honda to develop fuel cell (SOFC & PEMFC) – based micro-CHP units. Honda also makes an ICE microgen burning NG. What this indicates is government recognition of need to offload some residential base load to residential CHP. The politics favor distributed CHP in both Japan and Germany and even !! in the UK.

    http://www.fareastgizmos.com/other_stuff/panasonic_opens_its_first_european_residential_fuel_cell_rd_center_in_germany.php

    While e-cat replaces the need for a natgas fuel source – the benefit to communities is already indisputable. The immediate solution is a hot cat + Stirling engine or micro-steam turbine. Later, direct conversion of the LENR beta-decay can provide solid state electricity; obviating need for moving parts.

    Naysayers, doubters, denialists, pathos all can be sure there ARE ready solutions for e-catCHP and there are now some major players looking to make money. These people will not stop, not rest, not turn back or be threatened by old school crime tactics. There’s too much money on the table.

  • andreiko

    The history of the fire; fire of the Sun, the lightning, the Flint or the friction stick, the campfire, the oven fire, stove fire, fire of the rifle, fire for the cannon, fire for the steam engine, fire for vehicles, fire of nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, fire of rearrange knew nanostructures > LENR etc … … strange but true!!Fire the smallest conceivable unity of move.

    • Dickyaesta

      @Andreiko lees alsjeblieft mijn post een stukje verder op in deze pagina.
      @Andreiko Please read my post it bit further on this page I dont how to point directly to it, it might help 🙂 all of us to decipher your enigmatic english posts
      Dickyaesta

  • freethinker

    OK, so maybe I was too argumentative, maybe there are ghosts.

    Here goes an attempt to be very polite and more cautious in my expressions:

    AR is an inventor. AR is unconventional, has a very personal style. He is also a business man, I dare conjecture.

    He has an invention that potentially will turn a very powerful and rich business sector up-side-down. He draws fire. By making much of his work as visible as possible, without disclosing any key factors, he gains cred with some academia, media and first and foremost people on the internet who share a vision of free energy. People place preliminary orders (was it 10,000 of them?) on a home device for heat production.

    He can now work relatively safely and try to get industry interested in his inventions instead of shutting him down in infancy. In this semi-protected environment, he has now managed to further develop his product and electricity is also on the horizon. The product is an amazing feat – a ground breaker, and an earth shaker.

    According to AR himself, he has now secured power and finance, though some very powerful backer. I conjecture the backer is a major player in energy industry.

    My point is now the following:
    Granted that he has the goods, and I conjecture he has, the big energy player, having already considerable assets operating in the market, would like AR to work hard to make very efficient industrial grade products to be used in their currently operational grids and systems.

    My point is: between the difficulty securing safety certification for the home cat, paired with this new situation (which I conjecture AR has been aiming for all the time) will lead to that the home cat will not be available in a foreseeable future. Same goes for a hot-cat for home use.

    After all, it makes perfect business sense, and AR is a business man. For sure, if a very powerful partner in the energy sector enters the scene, the will not want to see people freely producing inexpensive energy. They want people to by their energy, transported over their grids, so they can cash in on their investments.

    I conjecture they will try to hold back home cats in any form, if they can.

    As I am a fan of freedom, I would like to see small smart grids, overlapping, allowing for people, if they have the capacity, to deliver energy to the grid.
    However I do not see the market embracing that idea in a long time, so maybe this is a more political inclined issue. Or so I conjecture. If we want this to happen we need to make this visible to people who make political decisions in this area.

    In the end I would like to say, that I do hold the outcome of big energy using LENR as a all out negative thing. At least it will be clean energy.

    Does the above strike any one of you as a very unlikely scenario to play out in the nearest future?

    • freethinker

      Replying to my post, still in moderation, I missed out on one negative in my finale. If it get to be posted in the end, it should say:

      “In the end I would like to say, that I do *not* hold the outcome of big energy using LENR as a all out negative thing. At least it will be clean energy.”

    • G_Zingh

      My understanding from following this story for over a year is that the technology for the home cats to be competitive is not yet realized and Rossi can only control E-cat output effectively when he has several of them in one unit. I also think that the certification process has potentially doubled the cost of the home E cat and it continues.

      What is objectively best for the planet would be to get the E-cat in the hands of as many people as possible, as fast as possible, if this were a finished product, which I do not believe.

      What is best for the development of the E-cat is for a big Energy Company to allow Rossi to further the evolution of the product while protecting his IP and investor’s money.

      If the Rossi timeline is to be believed he has made incredible progress so far and hopefully will continue to do so. Meanwhile the dream of an affordable combined home heating and electricity producing unit would be the cat’s pajamas, so to speak.

      • Wau dau

        “I also think that the certification process has potentially doubled the cost of the home E cat and it continues”
        ———————————–

        You are right that homr-cat price doubled from 500 to 1000 USD
        and five-fold in Australia to 2500 AUD.

        1 million units per year times 500 USD of higher price = 500 million USD

        Costs of certification is NOT 500 million USD, so your argument is invalid.

  • ivan_cev

    To admin: why are you suppressing my comments?

    • Methusela

      Perhaps you have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said?

    • captain

      Because, finally, our permissive Admin, for the sake of this blog, has realized that it’s better to keep it within the rails of the line of his website.

  • Wau dau

    This is not effective to integrate Hot-Cats with existing powerplants, because they will uncommpettitive within 3-4 years even after such retrofit.
    Fees for transmission system (grid) are higher then future cost of energy at new generations of home systems (generators). So historic example with iceman and fridge is right and I was first who used this example at my country biggest broker public forum some 3-4 years back.

    Existing powerplants will baannnkrupt within 6-8 years of timefframe, because of saturation (with new systems) around 60-75 % at customer base.
    Spreading between industries will faster then spreading in block condos with existing centralized heating. These condos in poor areas will be last who will adapted/saturated.

    Rooozzzi concept with priorrritizing energy wholesaler is feasible only if such wholesaler will build decentralized units directly at industrial customers bases, otherwise no.

    I am beelliver in LENR, it is not necesssary to attaaack me.

    My origginal name was Gguuru, You know this.
    All my names are here bbbbaannnedd, so I must chaaanges this.

    • George Sutton

      Wau dam excellent point and congratulations on the iceman refrigerator analogy. Definitely has made a huge impact on the entire argument.

    • jacob

      you are not making any sense , Gguuru whoever you are ,if you believe in cold fusion LENR,perhaps you could consider to be positive and not trying to get banned again.
      really don’t know what you are trying to accomplish.

      • Wau dau

        I am trying to write that positives are huge, fine and clear.

        Also I am trying to write that biased thinking, planning etc. is very dangerous, naive and childish. With such secretive prioritizing, information heavy assymetry style of conduct business in paradigm shift sector You may easy bankrupt whole nations for example – and there was not such discussion. Only childish orgasmic blabbing, no critical thinking.

        I am real believer in LENR and HephaHeat from first minutes, no subversion agent.

  • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

    I think it likely existing power plants will be retrofitted with LENR generators first. My reasoning is:

    – MW LENR generators are more likely to get approved for centralized power plants as the certification requirements are not as stringent and disaster control scenarios already exist for those plants (assuming Rossi’s 1 MW barrel generator or someone else his MW generator will be successful)
    – Unlimited LENR devices plugged into the global power distribution net could easily overload the net. I can’t imagine it’s a good idea to start flooding the net with the excess power of a millions of LENR reactors. The power distribution net should probably be updated massively before a completely de-centralized power grid is possible and excess power can be shunted to wherever it is needed. Local home power, disconnected from the grid should not be a problem though.
    – It should be relatively easy to retrofit existing power plants with LENR generators (I have no proof of this, just assuming)
    – The result of the retrofit is clean power so we could quickly and substantially lower CO2 output, especially if LENR generators can be retrofitted in big ships (very big environmental pollution creators)
    – It’s unlikely for electricity prices to raise because of the stability of the fuel price (1% of the current yearly nickel production is already enough to satisfy the current world energy requirement).
    – LENR reactors should allow for easy expansion of centralized power plants and power production. Since it is a safe technology without pollution, it will be much easier to get permits for new plants.
    – As new plants are build or old plants are upgraded and expanded, this should mean nearly unlimited power which in a market environment should mean prices will drop
    – Nearly unlimited power against reduced prices will mean a boost in economic activity
    – Newer LENR devices for heat and electricity will be developed until they are ready and certified for home use, so at one point they will flood the market, lowering the price of electricity again, causing more economic activity, and so on…
    – Centralized power distribution should still be useful for projects that have really big power requirements, unless advances in (portable) LENR generators can meet even those requirements

    So short term centralized power distribution based on LENR is useful, but is limited in lifetime as de-centralized power distribution should take over eventually.

    Of course this is all crystal ball speculation…

    • Mike Cheek

      It would seem the “hot cat” could be quickly integrated with an existing power plant. Nothing against distributed power, mind you, but at a power plant you already have a complete water treatment (demineralizers,reverse osmosis) and power generation equipment (i.e. steam turbines with downstream condensers) to squeeze the very most out of every pound of steam generated. A power plant, due to its economy of scale,can most efficiently convert the energy from steam generated by a hot cat into electricity. But let’s have both, centralized and distributed. If, if, if the hot cat works.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Fully agree with your points.

      • Einar

        Yes, should be easy enough to use a hot cat in the preheater lines and in the MSR (moisture separator and reheater) instead of bleeding fresh steam, thus increasing the effective steam flow to the turbines –> more MWe’s. Limiting factors can be the generator cooling and generator busbar capacity, though.

        Using hotcats instead of preheaters and MSR’s could also maybe reduce the complexity of the process: less pipes, valves and tanks would probably be needed.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        rith, centralized power plant can be 2-4 times more effective.
        however the grid is halp of the the todays price, and LENR make electricity 10 times less expensive…
        hard to compete.

        the only solution would be for the grid to downsize quickly, but it is to easy to try to maintain the monopoly.

        naturally users will by a CHP generator to save their bill.
        then the operator will refuse to buy electricity, and will increase electricity price.
        more people will buy CHP. operatoir will increase fixed price.
        people will simply disconnect.
        operatoir will ask to forbide that.
        next election will reject that idea.

        already discussed here
        http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=732#p2659

    • Omega Z

      Zeddicus

      Once they are Available, I suspect for several years, all E-cat production will just be added to the present Energy production. Demand increase by 2 to 3 percent a year. Production will have to meat that demand first. It all takes time.

      At some point when additional demand is met, I suspect small decentralized systems will be built. Efficiency/costs will dictate this. Less infrastructure & eliminating Energy loss over 100’s of miles of Power Lines.

      I live in 1 of about 5 (US)States that actually allow you to sell Electricity to the Grid. Not a simple matter. You don’t just back feed threw the meter. Well, technically you could, but you’ll end up in a place that provides all your means for you. An all expense paid vacation by the tax payers.

      You have to setup a completely different meter system & Control panel. The Utility Has Control over it. Only they determine if/when you can feed the Grid. Usually only under Peek Demand periods. Their Base Generators take priority. Even when they buy your Electricity from you, They pay only fair market Wholesale price. My rates are about 12 cents per Kwh. 6 cents for energy, 3 cents tax, 3 cents for transmit fees & profits, a portion of which is also tax. So the best I would get would be 6 cents per Kwh.

      Considering the costs to do this & the fact that they only have to purchase at peek times, Probably not worth the hassle. Toss in the Fact that they will have E-cats for line stability purposes, your payment may only be 1 cent per Kwh feed back. That would be the new wholesale base.

      Unless your totally off grid, Which is a long way off, The most likely long term scenario is a dispersed grid with 30% to 50% lower Utilities.

      You mentioned feed back & overload of the Grid. That’s why they have to have control of your system. If you make it, you have to use it. Otherwise it will overload & start blowing things out including peoples appliances.

      • Zeddicus Zul Zorander

        Excellent points, Omega. The fact that the current power grid must be adapted for future decentralized.power distribution, gives the established power companies lots of control over how to setup the new grid to their benefit. As they will eventually be reduced to carriers and guardians of the infrastructure, they will strive to keep the power grid very important. As you say, low price for home produced electricity and strong preference for the base centralized power plants. I expect lots of political muscle will be used to keep them in power for as long as possible.
        They may have a point for having to provide for power demands that the local grid cannot deliver. A datacenter takes huge amounts of energy, so how would the local grid provide for their power requirements?

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

          current grid operators cannot adapt to energy 10 times less expensive.
          50% of their todays cost are the grid managent.
          It is worthe today because energy is expensive.
          When grid will cost 5 times the energy, people will ask for autonomy.
          incumbent will try to force people to pay the grid, but people will disconnect…

          • HeS

            In some countries in Europe the cost of the grid is separate from the cost of energy. Different suppliers have different electricity prices for consumers.

  • freethinker

    Dear admin.

    I do appreciate the site, and also I realize that this is your blog and you can delete any entry coming in, if you do not like them. So. Done with the preamble

    I have recently submitted two posting to your blog. One original and one as a response. They were both lengthy and a bit argumentative. For me to feel compelled to offer my opinion, or information, I need to understand why I get rejected. Is it length, my language, my opinion, or what?

    Plz inform.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      I am not the admin here, but am the admin on a similar site. Most times that long posts go into moderation is because they contain too many links. Automatic spam detectors often kick out comments that have more than one or two links. Could this be the issue?

      The other kind of automatic spam detection is meaningless “you are wonderful” drivel, especially if there is a website associated, but that doesn’t sound like you.

      Frank is a pretty generous moderator. If he nixed your posts for being argumentative, they were probably pretty strong.

      • freethinker

        Nope. No links. As I know Frank to be generous with regards to comments, I really would like to know why those two postings, on same topic, were rejected.

        They were a bit argumentative, to my understanding not to a point that should cause a problem. To understand the limits and rules of engagement is important as writing something you feel important to voice sometimes take time – and I dont want to waste time on rejects.

        • Jim

          You sound pretty rational. Maybe keep the posts shorter, and phrase your ideas as propositions, hypotheses or questions instead of suggestions.

          “Long” and “argumentative” unfortunately suggests an agenda, and those get detected pretty quickly here.

          And attempting to prove Rossi is invalid by stringing together a list of perceived inconsistencies (which I’m not saying you’re doing) is self-defeating. There are many more pathways for things to occur in the world, and many more errors committed, than we ever care to admit to

          Dialog, inquiry and idea exchange seem to be the happy mix.

        • Omega Z

          freethinker

          I think it’s just Ghosts in the Machine.
          I’ve seen & made posts that get Moderated. Short, Long, no key words, no links. No problem. And they do get posted eventually.

          At request, Frank has passed some threw that had no obvious problems.

          I’ve seen some pop up immediately with what some think are key words with no problem. Like I said. Ghosts.

        • Peter_Roe

          I also find some my posts auto-moderated on a fairly regular basis, and in the majority of cases I have absolutely no idea why. Frank usually ‘passes’ them after a short time, but the occasional post just stays ‘in moderation’ indefinitely.

          If I get a whole load one after another (as sometimes seems to happen) I usually PM Admin to point out what is happening. and he will normally find and ‘clear’ them manually, right away. The auto moderation software just seems to occasionally ‘go off on one’ for no discernible reason.

  • Chris

    This would have to wait until Rossi is not the only dude producing something viable.

    I saw the whole of the Pordenone videos on Prometheon’s site and, at the end of it, he confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while; he does not intend to sell in large volume for fear of his secret getting out. He is willing to deliver to only about 1% of prospective that are knocking on his door, for reasons of trust. He was also asked about sales to electric utilities and this revealed something I hadn’t anticipated which dismayed me much; he says they are not keen at all on converting existing plants, due to the red tape that is required for authorizing things.

    Seems like we can’t expect to see such a rapid evolution in the near future.

    • Omega Z

      Chris

      In the Business World, this is a short term situation. When it’s time to replace or rebuild an Existing System or build a new one for increased demand, the Cost of the E-cat will be much cheaper. That’s what they’ll use. Red tape wont be a problem as the red tape will be a involved regardless. In the States, Red Tape for a New Nuclear Plant can take 10 years. 2 to 5 for everything Else.

      In the U.S., most of our plants are near end of life cycle. The E-cats will be phased in. Mostly as I would expect it to be.

      Rossi just speaks in General. A more Worldly View. He realizes it’s going to take along time to gear up just to meet New Demand. The Old will be replaced gradually.
      Cell phones took a long time to become mainstream. Note that Land Lines still exist & when they are totally replaced it will be more land lines only Fiber-optic.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        land like have higher bandwidth than air.

        in emerging countries like indonesia, people use 3g instead of DSL.

        • Omega Z

          Yes, And in the U.S. we are fast running out of bandwidth by Air. 10 Year projections require 4 times more bandwidth then Exists. People will either be rationed service or plug into a fiber-optic line.

    • Peter_Roe

      Until Rossi can get some form of IP protection, this seems to be a sensible strategy from his POV. By selling to a few buyers such as the US Navy or a large power plant operator (but probably in large numbers) he can arrange for various security measures to be put in place that will minimise the risk of the IP being compromised, at least in the short term.

      As he seems unwilling to apply for patents for his central secrets, presumably for fear of hijacking before patents can be considered, this is the only course left open to him. Of course, it will create a strangled market, and the pressure for alternatives will surely be met quickly, as the ‘secrets’ of the hot cat are almost certainly very simple and easily replicated, given just a few more clues.

      There is also the possibility that Rossi has been forced to compromise with vested energy interests in order to get anything at all to market, and such very limited sales may be a part of such a compromise (as would be the dropping of the home e-cat idea). If he gets the introduction of CF wrong, he could find himself swept away by competitors or just by an impatient market, or he could find himself the target of physical attempts to eliminate him. Its a balancing act I don’t envy him.

      • Chris

        I had no doubt about what his reason is, you might even notice that I had said: “he confirmed what I’ve been thinking for a while” which meant it was no surprise to me. I simply find it unfortunate.

        As for the details, there are a few touch-and-go aspects. Did it really make no sense to di his patent application properly? IMHO what he did makes no sense, relying on secrecy is his very problem. I don’t think the patenting system is such that an inventor must be scared to make his application properly.

        That said, keeping to the status quo that he only has a secret, with the problem that it can’t be kept inside his fence but inherently must be delivered within his wares, it isn’t so easy to say what his best strategy is. Especially considering that he said 1% which is a very low fraction, market-wise. No doubt he should serve the most trustworthy first; but then what? Sell no more? Of course not!

        So I think that, whether now or at a judiciously chosen point, he ought to simply be prepared to sell as much and as quickly as possible and expect his secret to be let out, with himself having the prime position in the market. This goes (at the very least) as far as having already made all the preparations and also being the name by antonomasia. He should give primary importance to his registered name and logo.

        Very recently I attended an event, all about IP and licensing, for people with a product, design or service to market and manage. Here is one of the many interesting things that the experts told us: Gatorade’s patent has looooong expired, yet they still have an annual revenue of US$ 9 million from licensing alone! Yup, cuz they still own the brand name. The original formula can now be produced and sold by anybody, but who hasn’t heard the name Gatorade? Who doesn’t associate it with beverage having that purpose? The only thing that competitors can’t do without their licence is to call it by the same name. Go figure.

        • Chris

          Rats! Edit time expired.

          I meant to add that the event focussed very much on international licensing and marketing.

  • GreenWin

    For an inspirational look at how distributed CHP (cogeneration) can work in the material world – here’s high rise One Bryant Park, a Manhattan skyscraper with its own 4.6MW CHP cogeneration facility. While this provides about 70% of the building’s energy needs, it is a practical example of new energy systems.

    http://construction.com/ce/articles/0803edit-5.asp

    Imagine replacing the gas-fired boilers with a hot-cat NewFire array. While the rest of the city lay in darkness, THIS one innovation kept the light, heat and electrical services ON.

    • jacob

      unreal ,had no idea at all,then how easy these chp systems can be converted by the Hot- Cat

      • GreenWin

        @jacob… The U.S. Department of Energy and it’s Chief Secretary Steve Chu, endorse the use of district CHP systems like the one used here at One Bryant Park. But the deniers don’t want you to know this. They will make promises about credit and how concerned they are, and then not follow through. The most rudimentary elements of honesty somehow escape this species.

        It is rather sad actually. As it confirms that purportedly evolved “lifeforms” are little more than deceptive, self-serving solipsists masquerading as teachers. The operative message here is: You will never teach anything until you can be rigorously honest yourself.

        Still, it’s all good. Even when the student is the master.

        • jacob

          when I started school in germany at 6 years old I was excited ,to learn all there is to know about everything,i was disappointed as this was not the case,and considered school babysit.
          but as it stands now,the biggest obstacle of my understanding is my education.
          My education had taught me that is was impossible to get overunity in any system.
          My teachers were wrong,and my teachers were taught wrong by universities.
          Why does knowledge have to be controlled? ther was a time when I believed what I had learned.

  • georgehants

    Will this be hidden just like Cold Fusion or will science do it’s job.
    —-
    NBC News Science.
    Our bodies can predict events before they occur, study says.
    Many studies have shown that physical responses including heart rate, pupil dilation and brain activity change between one and 10 seconds before people see a scary image (like a slithering snake ). In most of these experiments, frightening pictures were randomly interspersed with more-neutral ones, so that in theory participants didn’t have any clues about which photo would pop up next. But because the finding seemed so unnatural, those studies were understandably met with skepticism.
    To see whether the effect was real, Mossbridge and her team analyzed over two dozen of these studies. As part of the analysis, they threw out any experiments in which they saw bias or flaws.
    They still found a “presentiment” effect, in which measures of physiological excitement changed seconds before an event. The finding suggests that people’s bodies subconsciously sense the future when something important is about to happen, even if the people don’t know it.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49663712/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.UJQrW2dS7RQ

    • Peter_Roe

      Perhaps ‘now’ is not any more precisely ‘located’ than an unobserved wave/particle is in space-time. An instant of time may lie anywhere within a bell-curve of probability so information becomes rather ‘smeared’ in space-time and is ‘collapsed’ by observation just like matter.

      There seems to be accumulating evidence (this included) that the concept of ‘now’ is a construct of conscious mind, and in fact has no objective reality. Certainly there is a mechanism at work that takes sensory information that is spread over time due to ‘transmission lag’ in nerves of differing length, and integrates this into a coherent (but unreal) perceived ‘present’. These observations may represent an extension of this phenomenon.

  • Ivan_Cev

    We all need to put the feet in the ground. some points.
    1.- Could some one shown any other product produced by Rossi? anything!
    2.- Rossi have changed priorities, in the beginning he offered to produce millions of devices for home usage the want to make the ecat so cheap the competition will not see it worth.
    3.- Then He changed to military.
    4.- now associating with big company.
    5.- What Rossi has been 100% consistent in not showing evidence of any of what he say, is only Rossi says, (Where is the other business partner? where are the offered independent validations? university reports? which university has declared that is doing the validations and the report is pending?)
    6.- We all should unite and demand hard evidence from Rossi, at the end of the day Rossi is playing with public expectations.

    • Peter_Roe

      Ivan – Your repeated ‘demands’ are becoming extremely tedious and irritating. You have made this same ‘point’ a dozen times, and the answer is always the same – no-one without a stake in the game is in a position to demand that Rossi does anything. Make an effort and try to understand that he has no obligation to you or any other observer.

      Your purpose in making these pointless posts is puzzling. If you are not a troll, please stop behaving like one.

      • GreenWin

        Handwriting grows bolder and trolls are ordered to the front to stem the bleeding. Unfortunately there are now too many people who “know” and the cork is nowhere to be found.

    • captain

      Ivan again and again and again… 🙁

  • Roger Bird

    So, I searched this page for the strings “coronal”, “sun”, and “flare”, and I got no hits. So I know that no one mentioned the inevitable, the future, what is going to happen. Not if, but when. A big, fat, 1859 version of a Coronal Mass Ejection aimed right at my beloved planet. Not if. But when. And LENR will go a long way to keeping us from having to fall back to technology of around circa 1859 A.D.

    • GreenWin

      Such a different tune than your comment next door! Have a great evening Roger!

      • Roger Bird

        Greenwin, you win. I read the title of the article wrong. LENR will be the salvation of the world, but probably not the E-Cat. (:->)

        • GreenWin

          Forget it rog, this world is terminally bipolar!! You gotta luv it!!

    • Renzo

      I agree that a new “Carrington event” is one of the worst nightmare I can imagine. And it would be much much worse than simply wiping out 3/4 of earth population for famine and desease: imagine what will happen once all the reserve generators of nuclear power plants are out of fuel…

  • georgehants

    From Phys-Org
    Navy researchers look to rotating detonation engines to power the future
    NRL researchers have constructed a model of a Rotating Detonation Engine. With its strong dependence on gas-turbine engines for propulsion, the U.S. Navy is always looking for ways to improve the fuel consumption of these engines. At the Naval Research Laboratory (NRL), scientists are studying the complex physics of Rotating Detonation Engines (RDEs) which offer the potential for high dollar savings by way of reduced fuel consumption in gas-turbine engines, explains Dr. Kazhikathra Kailasanath, who heads NRL’s Laboratories for Computational Physics and Fluid Dynamics.
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-11-navy-rotating-detonation-power-future.html#jCp

  • Petrol

    This is akin to daydreaming about winning the lotto. Our dreams only matter in the real world if we actually win.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      To fantasize about the lottery pretty much requires the purchase of a ticket. Rossi, so far, has been cheaper, and to the extent that he raises the blood pressure of skeptics, makes it even more entertaining.

      • HeS

        Excelent, long soap opera. Like “The Bold and the Beautiful”:)

      • GreenWin

        Ig, the pathsceps next door are now so demoralized, they have indulged in group Seppuku. OTOH, high blood pressure in skeps is good news for the makers of Lipitor (the best selling drug in pharmaceutical history!)

        • LilyLover

          The next door does not carry Seppuku-worthy self esteem.
          If only they did.

      • Petrol

        Not cheaper if you happen to be an investor/distributor.

        • Ged

          Hence why those people need those backroom proofs that the majority of us do not get to see, before they invest their money.

  • Lu

    OFFTOPIC

    Paul Story who runs the website ECatNews has posted a throw-in-the-towel post on Rossi and the E-Cat: http://ecatnews.com/?p=2478. (For what it’s worth, his sentiments are very similar to mine except I am giving Rossi till the end of the year.)

    I used to frequent ECatNews until the readership’s fervor there became a bit too much but I always found Paul to be fair and unbiased and did a great job following and reporting on the E-Cat saga, much like Frank does here. When someone of Paul’s professionalism and dedication to the E-Cat story makes this kind of declaration, I think it should be read and reflected upon.

    OK, back to our regularly scheduled programming…

    • Peter_Roe

      Paul Story allowed his blog to become ‘home’ to a number of full-time pseudoskeptics of unknown motivation or affiliation. As a result the atmosphere became unrelentingly negative, and perhaps Paul has finally succumbed to this. Objectively, there do not seem to be any developments that should trigger such a declaration, so it must come from inside Paul’s head. It seems he set a deadline of the end of October for some reason, and on the stroke of midnight, went into a self inflicted tailspin.

      It’s his blog, and so obviously his choice – but if cold fusion has friends like that, it hardly needs any enemies. Good luck to Paul, but I hope he now closes the blog down, as it has served no useful purpose for some time, other than as a stage on which some shills and other weird people can strut and sneer in their own little world.

      • GreenWin

        Yes Peter, Paul has committed Seppuku – a sure sign that LENR is a done deal. And Rossi is instrumental at getting it done. It must be very discouraging to see one’s small-world fiefdom shut down. But this is what happens when people (regardless of intent) refuse to honor sovereignty, or to obtain informed consent.

        As a famous Coroner once said, “Just another skinny junkie gone belly up.”

        • georgehants

          My concern is always that if young scientists or students find themselves on such a Website looking for Cold Fusion reports and witness such a display of unpleasant, childish behavior, from those on the site playing make believe scientists.
          I think it could make many of them choose another career.

          • Peter_Roe

            That’s my concern too. And not just young people but anyone who has heard something about CF and is following it up. Paul’s disenchantment with Rossi has resulted in a concentrated pool of bilious garbage that probably couldn’t do much more damage to perceptions of cold fusion if that was what it was designed to do.

            Paul set up the blog with good intentions, but if he permits it to continue in its present destructive form, he is consciously doing a great disservice to all those who don’t share his current views. He should close it down without delay, or he becomes as guilty of spreading disinformation as Park, Huizenga and the rest of the fanatical naysayers.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            I think that ECN should be archived in some way. It’s a treasure trove for future historians and psychologists. Determinism, randomness, individualism, group dynamics, knowledge, rumors, egoism, trolling, friendship, it’s all there. All triggered by one driver which disturbs the system and the system resists the change. Like the impulse response function of the collective mind.

            • georgehants

              Ha Pekka, agreed it is a microcosm of the human condition in one goldfish bowl.
              To stand aside and observe is very informative and fun, but one thing spoils that—
              The damage and hurt that not enthusiastically encouraging and following the Evidence of Cold Fusion, to possibly, if successful, help all the people of the World.
              Even if that where to turn out to be fool’s errand the chase must still be undertaken as to delay such an advance in any way would be a crime against humanity.

            • GreenWin

              Well put Pekka. And interesting to watch the sponsor succumb to the brain wash. Perhaps this latest deal with a major financial partner caused the skeps to throw in the towel.

              If it were an infowar exercise, it is astonishing to realize how the efforts of so few have neutralized the powers of the status quo. An excellent example of mind over matter.

          • LilyLover

            Those who’d choose their career in science, at least the good ones, would automatically end up on this blog. The ones who just wanted an excuse to run away from it; would run away from it anyways.

    • Jim

      “Stockholm syndrome”

      or

      “When the maniacs run the asylum”

      • GreenWin

        Yeah, the maniacs who now cling only to their faded monetary system. They cower at the far end of the cave in the face of new fire – which is here to wipe them out of the temple they have so arrogantly desecrated. Good fuggin riddance.

    • clovis

      HI, LU
      yep i have know Paul for a long time, sorry to hear he’s through in the towel, oh, well i’m sure he has many other things to attend to,
      We’er so lucky to have frank’s blog, in order to carry on our conversations about e- cat and lenr, frank also has other irons in the fire as well,
      P.S.Now i know where all the trolls came from, lol.

      • Ged

        Seriously. The atmosphere here is very collegial, and you don’t get that anywhere else.

        • Karl

          Yes I agree and very important that Frank and “we” can keep it free from pseudo sceptics especially when they do not have a home on ECN.

  • andreiko

    Let op Japan !!

    • Andreiko

      Please note Japan!!

  • andreiko

    Competition that will be the E-Cat and/or HOT-CAT buy determine and nothing else, as well as the speed of introduction.

    • Dickyaesta

      Sorry Andreiko, I made a comment once that you should attempt to translate your dutch posts to English, but I came to the conclusion that I like your dutch comments better because they are at least readable 😉 and sometimes interesting. May I suggest to you to put both your dutch and english version, if your post is interesting and needs adapting, I will try to keep up and adapt your English version into readable English. But don’t expect me to do all the work!
      Veel groeten uit een miserable Spanje which needs cheap energy NOW!!!

  • Wau dau

    Common folks without economic education don’t want understand one thing:

    These breakthrough technologies firstly will cause asstronomic loosses in vallue of aaassets, eqquuities etc of hundreds biig companies.

    Even now EVERY DAY which Rossi reffused to publish this simply news:

    “We have new tech with these parameters, here are 3 seals from XYZ”

    every one such day are loosses for Woorld in sum around 8.8 biillion dollars,
    because these sources go every day into now obbssolete projects around wooorld.
    It is as invvesting biillions into bow and arrows businesses, when Rossi has machine gun.

    I fully respect his IP rights, however these behhavior is acceptable when you have some new model of lawnmover, no so when you have paraadigm shift technology. This is oldfasshioned sort of extrreme recckklessness and paatthologgical level of grrreed – all in perfect compliance with law, of course.

    To positive benefits: all ffolks know these will coming with some time delay after cruushing loosses above mentioned.

    Who does not understand me (except Roozzi and aaadmin) ?

    • GreenWin

      Is it possible that Vau and Wau are the same trol?

      • Ged

        We are seeing a few minor name changes between posters suddenly… which is indicative of the same person using multiple names, called sockpuppets.

        I’m sure there are some far more sophisticated sockpuppets here, who use completely different names between accounts, but this is kinda hilariously incompetent if that is the aim.

        • Dr Bob

          This is a forum and personally I think that it is important that communication is free.

          However, LENR is very controversial and probably some times people have good reasons for concealing their ID.

          Often, not always, its more important what is said, not who said it.

          I am pro lenr but have not problems, actually, I think it adds value to read thoughts and reports from the non believers.

          Peace Out

          Dr Bob

        • GreenWin

          Yes. And now the clever use of “foreign” language to avoid the spam parser. These DDD boys are desperate to air their denialist drivel. Rather fun to watch them squirm!

          • GreenWin

            e.g “asstronomic loosses…” LOL!

            • Wau dau

              Folkks, cool,

              I am hardd-ccore believer in E-cat,
              i have balanced thinking about whole problem.

              Change names and words because all my names are bbbann ed

              • GreenWin

                Take a hint Wau??

              • Barry

                You’re trying too hard Wau. Nobody would misspell like that.

              • captain

                Wau dau again and again and again… 🙁

        • GreenWin

          In case people are disturbed by the economics of change; two suggestions:

          1) When Ford’s automobile arrived there were millions$$ invested in the livery industry. Stables, breeders, feed, tackle, buggies, wagons, blacksmiths, repair shops, drivers, caretakers, vets etc. etc.

          2) LENR will put an average of $5k back in the pockets of Americans:
          http://coldfusion3.com/blog/how-lenr-will-improve-life-for-the-average-family

          • Wau dau

            if world will according to Rossi dreams, so no

            He will prioritize businesses, not families.

            He will sell hot-cats to utilities, who will sell to you heat for 3% lesser then competition, so family will not save 5000 USD, rather 150 USD.

            When you will understand to Rossi moves ?

            • GreenWin

              IMO the Rossi team is doing an excellent job. Else why would you be here?

              • Barry

                At lease his spelling has improved.

            • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

              This is why I await the low temp domestic water heater being “held up” in testing
              that was going “very well” in February
              2012 for the sometime in Autumn 2012
              product availability.

              The hot cat is good but for the big
              real shift in value to mankind we need the domestic off grid type of generation.

              No grid lines down then no repair trucks need to be flown accross the land or people helplessly waiting for the savior gasoline tanker.

              Like Bush said the US is oil addicts so until the independence arrives most will be condemned to a repeating cycle of wasting time and effort when there should be time for better things.

            • jacob

              Hot -cats to benefit humanity,it all starts with industry,then domestic market.

      • captain

        I think so, and others too.
        Frank, start cleanup deletrious junk!

    • jacob

      wou,whou wuou vou should learn and rerad history and learrrn

    • jacob

      Rossi, owes you nothing.

  • Vau dau

    Common folks without economic education don’t want understand one thing:

    These breakthrough technologies firstly will cause asstronomic loosses in value of assets, equities etc of hundreds big companies.

    Even now EVERY DAY which Rossi reffused to publish this simply news:

    “We have new tech with these parameters, here are 3 seals from XYZ”

    every one such day are loosses for World in sum around 8.8 biillion dollars,
    because these sources go every day into now obbssolete projects around world.
    It is as investing biillions into bow and arrows businesses, when Rossi has machine gun.

    I fully respect his IP rights, however these behhavior is acceptable when you have some new model of lawnmover, no so when you have paraadigm shift technology. This is oldfasshioned sort of extrreme recckklessness and paatthologgical level of grrreed – all in perfect compliance with law, of course.

    To positive benefits: all ffolks know these will coming with some time delay after cruushing loosses above mentioned.

    Who does not understand me (except Roozzi and aaadmin) ?

    • jacob

      you are all Vau Dau up about Mr Rossi,pointing the finger to the wrong culprit.

  • GreenWin

    Thank you Admin for an excellent article. Paradigm change demands more than just advanced technology. We have to carefully plan how to implement the technology in daily life. As Frank notes, natural disasters clearly demonstrate the dangers of old centralized grids (smart or stupid.) As seen with the East Coast hurricane, power outages are primary examples. After 24 hours of power loss refrigerated food begins to spoil – adding millions of $$ loss to storm damage.

    IMO a plausible rollout of LENR power systems is in three stages:

    1) Industrial applications for CHP at the 1-50MW level. These units would be dedicated to a single business, manufacturer, industry. Hot-cat subsystems provide process heat, hot water, chiller air/water, and electricity.

    2) District CHP systems serving a group of industries or businesses like the Texas Medical Center (14 hospitals, 9 schools) at 50MW – 1GW. Supported by US Dept. of Energy and DOD.

    3) Micro-grids providing UPS backup & conditioning services to neighborhood residences equipped with micro-CHP systems.

    Secretary Chu and the DOE already support the District CHP concept. In February, Dr. Chu visited TECO – a non-profit firm engineering District combined heat and power systems. http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9165794.htm

    While District CHP is ideal for Universities, municipal buildings and industries like the medical center – it requires a large power system.

    Micro-grids service the home CHP by networking neighbors for the purpose of load balance and emergency backup. If 10 micro-grid customers are flooded, their neighbors’ systems contribute a portion of their excess to provide uninterrupted service.

    Centralized power generation is vulnerable to multiple failure scenarios. With district, distributed, and micro-grids – even a disaster such as hurricane Sandy could be managed without major power losses. There is safety in numbers. Which is why for all the nail-biting and teeth gnashing over the home e-cat (and equivalents) – micro-CHP WILL enter the market.

    The only question is, how long will communities cling to their old, vulnerable ways?

  • Peter_Roe

    Just on a side issue, has anyone else found that the page no longer updates properly after a comment has been edited? I now have to press [back] then [F5] to see the corrected comment, irrespective of browser used.

    • clovis

      hi, pete.
      i would think that the glitch is probably within your system, no one else is having trouble , that i know of.– smile

      • stuey81

        clovis on November 2, 2012 at 2:44 pm

        hi, pete.
        i would think that the glitch is probably within your system, no one else is having trouble , that i know of.– smile

        there you go again, clovis you make my blood boil, do you end every sentance when you talk to someone face to face with “smile”?

        also you were quick to post the above, then contradicted your self with this: clovis on November 2, 2012 at 4:43 pm

        Thanks Frank,
        For your help on this problem, And how about the troll above,- smile

        • stuey81

          clovis, let me make this as clear as i can for you, you wouldnt say smile at the end of every sentance you said to someone face to face, (people would think you were a wierdo) e.g “good morning stuey – smile”, “how are you doing – smile”, “im well thanks – smile” put a smiley face if thats what you mean, but for F**ks sake enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!! – dont get me wrong, i will be smiling, the day we get to purchase a ssm electricity producing e-cat, until that day, stop being such a damm tool!

    • Karl

      I have also a problem with the edit function. After edit and save I no longer automatically come back to the page. Have to use the back tag (on crome) and refresh the page. It is a minor problem though.

    • Lu

      I’m having similar problems with EDIT. When I press EDIT I get a new page instead of a popup. When I hit SAVE I have to use the BACK button to get back to the page and the post is not updated unless I do a refresh. Using Firefox. Usable but not a nice as before.

      • Ged

        Same for me. Hopefully it can be fixed to the original system.

        • admin

          I see the problem too. I wonder if adding the like button had an effect on editing comments. Sometimes plugins interfere with one another.

          • clovis

            Thanks Frank,
            For your help on this problem, And how about the troll above,- smile
            .

            • captain

              Yes Admin, me too: how about the disturbing increase of trolls?

              • georgehants

                captain, agreed but Admin cannot sit at a desk 24 hours a day.
                We have to put up with the auto-moderate sometimes which is unavoidable.
                Compared to other sites I think he does an admirable job and nothing can be perfect.

                • captain

                  Our Admin could take an adequate care for unproductive trees… 🙂

                  ………..
                  For the leaves they will wither,
                  The roots they will die,
                  And you’ll be forsaken,
                  And never know why.
                  ………..

                  [On top of old smokey]

          • Robert Mockan

            Using the Google Chrome browser I do not even see the edit button anymore.

          • NJT

            With my Mac and Safari browser I have NO problems with posting and editing…

          • Omega Z

            Admin

            This is a very recent problem for me. Just the last 2 days. Maybe 3.

      • captain

        Me too the same prob since 3 days.

    • Omega Z

      ++ Same Problem

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    I bet that LENR generators at the electric substation level will be practical. Electric rates may get so cheap that most homeowners will not bother with a micro-unit except in remote locations.

    • Pedro

      I’m not sure about that… I think there is a huge difference between the cost of production of electricity and the sales price. Let’s assume the cost price is 4 cents/KWh and the sales price is 20 cents/KWh. If the cost price drops to 1 cent and they pass the total saving on to the customers (would they really???) then the sales price will become 17 cents, a reduction of only 15%. If they have a lot of investments in the power plant, which they are still writing of, the saving in fuel costs will even be less significant because they still have to payoff the initial investment in the old plant.
      I think the only way we will get a big part of the saving is if we have new local energy plants (home or village level) without all the overhead of the existing grid and old power plants.

      • GreenWin

        Pedro, good points. This is why the DOE’s program to develop district CHP systems dovetails nicely with the new technology. A system like the one Secretary Chu visited in Texas, powered by LENR instead of NG, could easily cut energy costs by 50% possibly 75%. LENR power plants providing in-situ CHP services will be the first to go public.

        A good example is the 4.6MW co-generation system at Bank of America Tower in Manhattan. They might have been one of the only buildings not blacked out by Sandy. http://contractormag.com/news/bank-america-plant-2345

      • Omega Z

        Pedro

        I fully expect them to keep most of the gain for some time. As you say, To recover upfront costs, But also for dismantling costs of the Old System. The cost savings will only gradually pasted on.

        I still see immediate relief coming in the Form of Future increases being nullified. I’ve seen a chart,(Dummy me didn’t tab it) that shows rates where I live going to 40 cents a Kwh over the next 10 years verses 12 cents now. Incidentally, long-term chart went to $1 per Kwh.

        It’s The End Of The World As We Know It- If LENR doesn’t Fly.

    • GreenWin

      Iggy, consider the path of refrigeration. The west relied on the Ice Man right up until around 1926 when the first home fridge went on sale. The Ice Industry saw the handwriting and attempted to compete by lowering rates.

      But the cost of making ice, hauling it to homes via horse & wagon, and general overhead was still more than a home fridge over time. IF a utility could compete via sub-station AND provide reliable uninterrupted service, AND make money at 1/2 of 1 cent per kWh… okay. At some point it begins to look like guys trying to sell fresh air.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Home refrigerators were not common until after WW2 in my area. I know because my dad made a fortune selling appliances in the late ’40s. Modern appliances would have come sooner but all industrial production was reserved for military production during the war.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I well remember the iceman. People displayed in their window a square card with the numbers 5, 10, 15, & 20 on the 4 edges. Which ever number you displayed at the top edge indicated the size block of ice in pounds. The iceman was usually the strongest man in town and there were lots of iceman (lover)jokes.

          • GreenWin

            Don’t remember that part. But our local iceman remained active selling “party” ice – for making ice cream (hand cranked) and ethanol consumers. LENR will be just another appliance sooner or later. Better than Dr. Emmet Brown’s Mr. Fusion!

      • clovis

        Hi, GreenWin,
        I have always said from the very start, that i hoped one day
        You could have all the energy you needed to do what ever motivated you, and it would be as free and clean as the air you breath, ,ahaaaaa.

      • Omega Z

        GreenWin

        Years ago we use to set around talking about taxes & joked that the next thing the Government would try to tax would be Air to Breath.

        Well, they finally figure out how. Cap & Trade.

  • Peter_Roe

    Unfortunately (for the future of distributed power generation) if the existing energy providers manage to get monopoly control of the hot cat technology, they will not be in any rush to dismantle their existing grid systems.

    The large power stations and grid distribution networks represent a stupendous investment, and if it turns out, as seems very likely, that retro-fitted conversions to CF are practical, then that represents the minimum investment path and also retains centralised control, and so will be the chosen option.

    Losses via transmission – the main problem with electricity grids, other than various vulnerabilities to weather and EMP – will become relatively insignificant if the running costs of generation fall to a fraction of the current cost, and so can be disregarded. Not only that but the existing system of ‘base load’ power stations (that run all the time) and load balancing generators that fire up when needed, actually works quite well. Also it is easy to integrate intermittent sources such as wind turbines (it will take a long time for govt.s to admit these are a dead end).

    Similar ‘load matching’ functions would be far more difficult to implement with large numbers of small generators, and no ‘interconnectors’, which would also be more labour intensive than a few large stations and grid management. All told, there is simply no incentive at all for energy providers to move towards local power generation, even though this will result in continued outages in bad weather.

    Caveat: If Steve Jackson’s replications of Tesla’s wireless power transmission system are the beginning of another ‘impossible’ technology making it into the real world, local power generation will not be technically necessary (although it will still be politically desirable):

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Tesla,_Meyl,_and_Jackson's_Wireless_Aetheric_Power_Transmission

    • Gordon Docherty

      I think it is useful here to separate out distribution from generation – after all, those wires can be used to distribute information as well as power – or, of course, being mainly copper or other similar metals, they can always be recycled into wiring for electric motors and generators…

      • Peter_Roe

        Most HT power lines are made of aluminium these days, so are not as attractive as copper for recycling.

      • clovis

        Great idea.
        now that’s what we need -innovation,—big smile

    • Peter_Roe
      • Peter_Roe

        Wrong place – moved by author

      • GreenWin

        Interesting idea. Problem for Tesla was transmission entropy. Like regular RF the useable power diminishes with distance.I suspect that other ZP systems utilizing the energy of virtual particles is a better direction today.

    • GreenWin

      Well though out Peter. I disagree with your belief that invested interests will prevent system change or innovation – beyond a new heat source for the old grid. In North America EPRI reports there is a power failure blacking out 50k+ customers every 3-4 hours. This is mostly due to centralization. And transmission over highly vulnerable above ground lines.

      I note in my comment above that the US Dept. of Energy is already embracing “District” CHP systems. They average twice the efficiency of grids. With district CHP entering the market – it paves the way for the next level of fully distributed power.

      Further, I suspect that load matching, backup etc. is a demand only needed until the hardware gets fully reliable. The model is the classic home appliance – a refrigerator. When first marketed there was a healthy repair business in place. But these days, how often do we need a repairman for a home fridge? E-cat/micro CHP is simple enough to become just as reliable as the fridge.

      As for potential failure? A micro-grid to your neighbors is all that’s needed. Or plug in your BEV or LENR-powered automobile for backup.

      • Dickyaesta

        I think, Rossi should concentrate on heat distribution rather than electricity at this moment as was his original plan though from another entry point (he didn’t have Hot E-cat).

        The reason for this IMO is that this market is more open to new technology than the very heavily over invested electricity market. He then can prove his technology to be safe and reliable in a big market and normal people get used and if you like UNscared of this new system (I remember the reaction of my sister when I told her there was no danger of radioactivity from Rossi’s reactor, it was like telling her it was redhot radioactive only the idea to have a low radioactive apparatus in her house).

        Heat and cooling system will have the obvious advantage that we will have a heat and cooling system, which lowers our energy bill considerably almost instantly. (in Spain 24 Eurocents por KWH and natural gas no much lower) and I might be willing to pay a higher price for Rossi’s reactor now only to get my hands on it and not wait 2 – 10 years if my electricty bill will go down after distribution of Hot ECat to electricity companies which have proven time and time again to only make me pay more for electricity every year. Correctly they don’t have much incentive to lower their price if the costs for them is 2 eurocents and they bill me 24 eurocents(30 dollarcents)
        Greetings from a recently not so sunny Northern Spain!

        • GreenWin

          Thanks for your comment dyaestra. Certainly at the rate you pay 30 cents US for kWh – any lower cost solution would be welcome. In Spain you need little area heat, but I imagine much cooling. You are right that even an e-cat hot water heater would benefit all users. If a chiller option could be added for cool air, even better.

          I suspect that Leonardo realizes it cannot be in all businesses and will rely on third party add-ons or full partners to develop boilers, chiller cooling, and electric generation via Carnot. An interesting cooling option is used in the BofA Tower in New York: they generate their own electric (4.5MW) and use excess electric overnight to make block ice. During the day, they use the ice to cool air when most needed.

          Please send Spanish sunshine to NW USA.

    • freethinker

      You pinpoint my worries exactly. I am worried that the promise of a future development of cats on steroids, and cash given to that end, will make AR and whoever is now firmly backing him focus on the industrial devices only.

      For exactly the reasons you describe Peter, pure economical and “business-sensical” reasons, the already heavy investments in the grids we have today will make it so. Also this will be a driving force to hold back small home based devices. Who is going to buy (overpriced) energy from a large plant when you can brew it in your own back yard for a fraction of the cost? (Same old question)

      I think it is imperative to have that scenario clear in your mind, and try to influence as much as possible anybody who can make a difference in such matters. Possibly this has to be a right out political thing, and not left to the market to handle. Small-segmented smart grids and the possibility for the small distributor or home owners to sell energy is the best outcome, not maintaining a centralised system.

      In my mind, though, it will be difficult, but the fight worthy. One consolation would be, if one loose, is that it will always be cleaner that fossil fuel burning or fission. Maybe one can say it is a win-win situation 🙂

      Also: hot-fusion tech is by design extremely centralised in its concept. Hot, large, heavy, expensive, centralised,(dare I say) tyrannical vs cold small, agile, inexpensive, distributed, freedom.

      But all those goodies are not given things …

    • freethinker

      My original comment was lengthy and argumentative and got stuck in moderation. But the scenario with lenr being used centralized only is a distinct possibility. Lets make it not so.

      • Omega Z

        freethinker

        I think in this particular case the Government may mandate decentralized systems. If Only for Political reasons. Everytime Millions of people suffer from a black out in a single incident, they catch a lot of flack from the voters.

        Governor Christy of N.J. Called in all 3 of the Major Utilities & said, I know you probably have a scenario hand book & time line for these situations but this is a worst case situation. Throw away the book, tell me what you need & get it done. He then arranged for the State to transport people & equipment from all over the U.S to make sure they had everything they needed to do it as fast as possible. Got to keep the Voters happy.

  • daniel maris

    If the technology is real, then you are right. Distributed power will transform power economics and energy security.

    • Gordon Docherty

      OK, sorry to use the “D” word on the e-cat site, but it does bode well for LENR, even if it is rather harsh on Rossi’s work, and it is an article in Forbes magazine, quite mainstream I believe… http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/10/20/cold-fusion-gets-a-little-more-real/

      So, in the words of Sydney Carter, one more step along the road I go…

      • Peter_Roe

        mmm – From memory I’d say that Mr Gibb’s article may have been ‘updated’ rather more thoroughly than the lined-out correction of Nelson’s sponsoring organisation might indicate. The ‘Rossi fan boy’ stuff seems to have gone completely. Gibbs is beginning to reposition himself by the looks of it, possibly so he will not look like quite such a bigoted mainstream stooge when Rossi (or even DGT or Blacklight) hits the markets.

        Has the word gone out in the MSM? (I doubt it, but one can hope).

        • clovis

          Hi, Pete.
          I say amnesty, for all, that want to ride the lenr train,-woo- woo

          • Peter_Roe

            Personally I would prefer to see something more akin to the Nuremburg trials I’m afraid.

            BTW that’s a rather unfortunate choice of ‘train sound’!

        • Omega Z

          Peter

          Your Right. Gibbs has cleaned it up a bit. Now if he does additional investigating, Some of us might even find it fair. Considering he’s a reporter & should be unbiased.

          I’ll cut him some slack. He actually pushed back on one posting on the call-outs.

          Mark Gibbs

          “Jaysan: While there are many players in the alternative energy market who are, without doubt, out-and-out frauds, the topic is so big that some of them must be real researchers. A fraction of those claim results and will be mistaken for one reason or another while a smaller number will never find anything. An even smaller subgroup might hit pay dirt … My point is that to declare “these people are most certainly fakes” would, for now at least, seem too sweeping a judgment.”

          • Peter_Roe

            Omega

            Yes the ‘revised’ Gibbs article does seem to about as good as MSM reporting gets (damning with faint praise!). If it wasn’t for Gibbs’ history of sneering I suppose I’d probably applaud the current version as a step in the direction of factual reporting. It’ll be interesting to see if it’s a ‘glitch’ in his normal pattern, or if future articles follow a new direction.

  • Michael

    Even a hot E-cat (if it works) is not suitable for a single-home cogeneration unit. I simply wonder how the mechanical work for the generator shall be efficiently created. Forget a steam turbine, maybe a externally heated gas turbine…….but the efficiency will be a disaster at the low power output that is useful in an micro cogeneration unit. Fuel cells and Stirling engines using natural gas have an output of 1 kW electricity. Add the heat that is used for heating and hot water. I believe that a major part of the heat from a hot e-cat has to be cooled and wastede to the atmosphere.

    • LENR4you

      look at the Carnot Cyle -> delta T 800K then the COP is 0,7 or 70%.
      Stirling engine can have a COP >0.5 when 100% of the heat is produced insight.

      • Michael

        A gas-fired Stirling engine micro cogeneration unit (1 kWe) has an electrical efficiency of 12-16%.

    • Omega Z

      Michael

      It would probably require at least 2 & even that wouldn’t cover a homes peek demand. Doesn’t matter. Other technologies will need improvement to make this work in homes. It can be done now, but cost/benefit doesn’t work out yet.

      It’s going to take a while. This is just the first step of many to come. Most of the Technology to make this work exists & needs improved or is being developed, but is still several years out. I assume once the E-cat is available, many of these other technologies will come about much faster. It’s a marketing thing.

  • Krish

    Admin,

    Considering the emergency of the Sandy-ravaged areas in NJ & NY, do you know if a Hot Cat field-test in one of these areas is in the works?

    • clovis

      smile

    • Omega Z

      Krish

      I’m not Admin, But no. The Hot Cat is still in development phase. It would be of no use at it’s present stage.

  • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

    Grid cause problem linked to line breaking.
    However Home energy, without a local grid cause new problems.
    Maintenance of home units is a hard problems, and you will have millions people experiencing broken generator fro few days in a year… more diverse, but more numerous.

    local grid can be a compromise. tandem generator, for higher availability can help too. Good maintenance network is important too.

    Note also that if energy price decrease, there will be less money for maintenance, for reliability…
    We should forget about the solution adapted to a High energy price, that today we reduce with high investment in efficiency.

    cheap energy price ,and higher relative investment is the new landscape.
    i expect a big work in turbine, in generators, in reliability, in local smart grid designed not to save energy, but to reduce peak power,to adapt to the new energy landscape.

    note beside LENR, that many device today are chargers/charging, helping smart grid to control peak power.
    changing the heating technology to have (today very expensive) accumulation heating, could help too.

    the alternative to to have local cheaper shared medium generators (MW sized), keeping a grid, but cutting the long lines.

    • Tiki

      I agree with the thought line that we should in fact keep the grids but reduce the grid size because of the service issues involved with everyone having their own generator.

      For those who reside in the United States of America like me; an ideal grid size would, in my opinion, best be suited to encompass municipalities within each county. This would mean that each county would have its own power plant or plants localized into a grid or grids encompassing that county and funded by the local municipal governments in that country. In this way, these localized county grids could be maintained by and funded by the tax base of each county.

      As for efficiency of our use of electricity through investments, I only think that this course of action is prudent and would take place regardless.

      • lcd

        No you simply put in a backup or use car. What are you going to do run hot fusion experiments.

        Anyways in the near term you already have the grid.

  • Omega Z

    John Bull

    Where are you. Not First.

    • Peter

      And maybe DC power? Food for thought.
      Sorry, I can’t move this. It was not meant as a reply.

    • http://www.we-cat.com John Bull

      My comment now is at least the lowest…

      • Jim

        Well, I couldn’t resist..

        • clovis

          SORRY GUYS
          i’m first, — to say great article frank, –smile

          • clovis

            First on the bottom that is, i’m like the weak force no one hardly notices, but i have great power.- smile

            • Omega Z

              Clovis

              Still room at the bottom