Aldo Proia: Pordenone Meeting ‘Great Success’, Good for Business.

A new interview with Prometeon srl CEO Aldo Proia following the Pordenone E-Cat meeting has been published by Italian web site nextme.it. Proia talks about the current state of his business affairs, and indicates that things are going well. When asked about the effect of the meeting in Italy he responds:

I can say that if the ‘ interest by some companies was already high before the conference of Pordenone, now it is even more . The comments that I recorded by these after the event, in fact, have been very positive and the business proposals vaguely mentioned by Rossi are highly attractive for an ‘ energy-consuming industry . I am therefore very pleased with what we have done so far, although we are definitely just the beginning.

A few key points that come out from the interview are:

  • The first product on the market will be the “Gas Cat” — i.e., a 1 MW plant which uses natural gas as the drive — it will be more economical in places where electricity is more than 9 cents per kW/h.
  • After a payback time of about 4 years, E-Cat users will save 80 percent on heating costs.
  • Italy and the United States are in pole position to be manufacturing bases of E-Cat products. The last place to get production facilities will be China, based on how intellectual property is treated there.
  • He expects to see Hot Cat products on the market within a year (Rossi states ‘within 2013′
  • He doesn’t expect that domestic E-Cat units will be available for two years based on certification requirements.

    Aldo Proia and Andrea Rossi with Hot Cat
  • georgehants

    Manuel Cilia
    October 24th, 2012 at 4:08 AM
    Dear Mr Rossi
    You sound excited.
    ——-
    Andrea Rossi
    October 24th, 2012 at 6:19 AM
    Dear Manuel Cilia:
    I am.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    October 24th, 2012 at 6:22 AM
    Dear Stefano:
    We already have set up our program to share the benefits of this technology with children who need more healthcare. We cannot give away the IP, though, for obvious reasons. Anyway a non military plant is on his way, as I said.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • John

    I don’t understand. Wasn’t it supposed to be some device that produces energy with an (unknown) nuclear reaction? Suddenly it’s an ordenary natural gas boiler?

    • artefact

      It is still the same. The input is just not electricity but gas to heat the reactor up and keep running.
      (some time ago he said on JONP that that is possible)

      • Peter_Roe

        Artefact, I wouldn’t waste your time. This is just a troll feigning ignorance in order to try to introduce uncertainty and doubt. Misinformation 101:

        “Rule 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues with denial they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion.”

        http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/the-25-rules-of-disinformation/

  • georgehants

    As with Cold Fusion the Placebo has been denied and hidden by most of science for many years.
    Now they are trying to say O, we have always used it in medicine.
    Untrue it has been almost completely ignored except by honest Doctors etc. who are well aware of it’s immense power.
    Time I think, for a complete investigation into the competence of science to administrate science.
    —–
    From Clinical Science
    Genetic marker for placebo response identified
    Although placebos have played a critical role in medicine and clinical research for more than 70 years, it has been a mystery why these inactive treatments help to alleviate symptoms in some patients – and not others.
    Now researchers have for the first time identified genetic differences between placebo responders and non-responders, providing an important new clue to what has come to be known as ‘the placebo effect’.
    http://www.biochemist.org/news/page.htm?item=46065

    • Karl

      Agree, it seems likely that there is an urgent need to lift science further to be worthy its name and image to prevent its actors to desperately hold on to the convenience of last/past generations assumption and definitions or for whatever reason.

  • Karl

    Certainly interesting and I wouldn’t be surprised if Rossi has come to the conclusion that he can’t win the coming energy war, financially unarmed without full patent coverage’s fighting virtually alone on the market .

    When it is clear for serious industrial players that this for real and they perhaps estimate Rossi has 12 – 24 month lead over competitors, an open minded industrial player will understand the enormous opportunities.

    As it looks now I wouldn’t be surprised it was actually Rossi that turned down the Hydrofusion $10 investment offer, which is actually peanuts in comparison to what he can get from a large industrial player, including the market support. I would guess that he instead has managed to get a proper deal with an industrial party. I would though be surprise if he personally leaving the scene which he seem to enjoy.

    Personally I think it could still be good for the CF/LENR and for the society as a whole if this should be the outcome for Rossi. Unfortunately one may conclude, CF/LENR may not be the total game changer that some of us would prefer, at least not in the short term. In a perspective there will be needed an enormous industrial and financial capacity to start to supply the world need for the new fire. Rossi may be in lead at the moment but competitors lures in the grass.

    • Karl

      Sorry, my comment above was meant to be a comment to the latest Rossi statement of what’s is to be announced next week by Rossi/Leonardo.

  • Voodoo

    Rossi/Leonardo will simply announce some partnership or Joint-Venture or selling 49% of company. As result of this and another 4 months delay, Rossi’s distributors will be crushing, victimized or throw over board.

    Folks who told 100 lies know even more tricks.

    • captain

      People like U are simply polluting thig blog with that …thing :-(

      • Voodoo

        Well, how many lies told Mr. Rossi ?

        • Andrew Macleod

          How many lies are we told everyday by our leaders?

    • Andrew Macleod

      You are obviously not following or listening. Rossi is trying to build to company from ground up without the help of Capitol investors because he is afraid of loosing control. If your so convinced of fraud find ONE person or company that he has frauded.

  • captain

    From Rossi’s JONP

    Avi
    October 23rd, 2012 at 2:28 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi
    How much customers you think you will have in 2013?
    Thanks

    Andrea Rossi
    October 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 PM
    Dear Avi:
    Leonardo Corp. will not be the same from the next week. I am in the USA, where an inportant event has been born from the last tests.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Haldor

      And that with the knowledge that Siemens recently announced to quit with their solar panel activity.

      • daniel maris

        Well – the news keeps coming, which is what i would expect if this is a genuine energy revolution. I think we can be “rationally optimistic” in the circumstances.

    • Martin

      How many customers? Well, concerning the 1MW industrial plant the counter will probably remain on 1(identity confidential).

  • georgehants

    Drew
    October 23rd, 2012 at 3:39 PM
    Dear Andrea
    When do you think you will have finished the design of the new ultra compact 1Mw hotcat?
    when do you expect to start testing the above?
    —–
    Andrea Rossi
    October 23rd, 2012 at 9:09 PM
    Dear Drew:
    Important news are on their way.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    October 23rd, 2012 at 9:11 PM
    Dear Avi:
    Leonardo Corp. will not be the same from the next week. I am in the USA, where an inportant event has been born from the last tests.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Filip48

      ‘same foRm’
      ‘last tests’ is the change related to the structure of the company(new investors) or the technology? Not clear.

      • Pedro

        He is talking about Leonardo company, so I would expect it to be a change in the business structure and not a technology change. He also explicitely mentions the US, so I guess some strong partnership with a large US company would be most likely

  • Sanjeev
  • Patrik

    I wonder what they will do with all the original e-cats that has been produced in his current factory. He did say before that production was started and that he managed to produce them so cheap and so fast that he was not worried about competition in the short term at sales launch. Which was supposed to be about now by the way.

    I have been tasked with buying an industrial plant for over a year and can inform anyone interested that one cannot be bought.

    And before you talk about certification, it was decided that we didnt care. We would run it anyway and thus we didnt care about certifications being in place. We would pay for it regardless and if/when regulators would give us problems we had a few plans to keep them at bay. Not being certified means it would be a hard sell nothing more, but we would still buy. But again, the point is, its not possible to buy one even though they say it is and say it has been for over a year and a half.

    • Filip48

      Interesting, can you reveal the name of the company and it’s location? it would be interesting to comfront Rossi with this info.
      Otherwise it’s your word against his.

    • Peter_Roe

      Rossi has said on a number of occasions that he is unable to obtain safety certification for home units and that plans for production of these units are currently on hold.

      Regarding the industrial units, if you really were a buyer for a company, you would know that it is illegal to offer for sale an equipment item that does not meet all requirements for safety certification, and have proof of compliance with all relevant legislation relating to general health and safety in the workplace, and documentation showing compliance with all detailed specifications for electrical systems, pressure vessels and so on. There has not been any indication or claim that a 1MW machine has yet been fully certified in this way.

      Your remarks indicate that you are not aware of these requirements and in addition it is hard to believe that a professional buyer would attempt to purchase illegally and reveal plans to keep regulators ‘at bay’. The tone of your post is entirely unprofessional and frankly I have great difficulty in believing that you are what you say you are, and that your claims are genuine.

      If true, then your claims would be important, so perhaps you would care to provide some supporting evidence for them. Otherwise it might be assumed that this is simply a clumsy and mendacious effort to discredit Rossi’s company.

      • Ivan_cev

        why Patrick is anonymous, so He can not be unprofessional, and the comment here are not professional any way, and He has not revealed the company, just his intentions. as here we are in the realms of “if , if ,if”. There is no solid ground to hold.
        An entity with enough money will pay the million dollar like it is pocket money, the purposes my be for investigation, as this is a new technology.
        I said before, there is no product because no client is able to buy it, “There may be a prototype” but there is no product.

        • Peter_Roe

          Rossi’s enemies are continually demanding proof of his claims. Is it not fair to ask one of his detractors for similar proof of their unlikely sounding claims?

          I think you have misunderstood the situation. A device such as the 1MW plant requires certification individually. A client must order one and place payment in escrow. The unit is then assembled and tested in order that documentation can be issue for the individual device. It is ten tested by the client before the payment is taken. There is no indication that none of this is in process.

        • Peter_Roe

          A couple of typos corrected, and an edit:

          I think you have misunderstood the situation. A device such as the 1MW plant requires certification individually. A client must order one and place payment in escrow. The unit is then assembled and tested in order that documentation can be issued for the individual device. It is then tested and accepted by the client before the payment can be released. There is no indication that none of this is in process – the first anyone outside Leonardo Corp would know of it is if a client decided to go public, or was ‘outed’ in some other way.

    • Sanjeev

      There are more reasons to believe Rossi than you. You are a nameless, faceless and clueless person. Clueless about the rules and regulations.

      Your statement that you are ready to break laws to get a plant tells a lot about you. I’d not deal with you if I were Rossi….

      Rossi will not take a chance selling you a unit fully knowing that it will totally damage his business. Now why are the units for sale, when there is no certification ? Its a question people have been asking here on e-catworld since the beginning, no one knows. May be its just marketing. If anyone can throw some light on it, please do.

      • Martin

        “Your statement that you are ready to break laws to get a plant tells a lot about you…”

        This is not true. I am working as a project engineer for large
        industrial heat treatment plants. It is not against any law. As a company you can decide to do all the safety certifications yourself. It is simply not true that such a safety certificate
        has to be supplied by the supplier of the device.

        Personally I whish and hope that Rossi`s claims are real. But on
        the other hand I am a realist. If it would be true Rossi would
        be silenced once and for all. There is just to much money involved
        for letting someone push such a device like the hot cat into
        market.

        For this very good blog, which I am reading since some time now, I
        would hope that other opinions would be respected a little more
        without attacking the writer of such posts.

        Regards,
        Martin

        • clovis

          Hi, everyone,
          Just wanted to say Dr Rossi has said, that he will not sale
          (anything to the public) without a safety certification, period.
          And it just not very smart to think, that you will get a 1 mw plant right now. he has always said that they are not yet available
          and if you want one you have to make an order and wait your turn, once they are certified and ready for market.
          and once this happens there will be orders by the millions.
          So if you have an order in, you will have to wait your turn, put up your money,in escrow and when you are pleased with your product the money will then and only then be released to the the company that sold said plant.

        • phlatbeer

          “There is just to much money involved for letting someone push such a device like the hot cat into market.” Have you ever considered Rossi doesn’t give a fig for 10k billion dollars, give or take a few cents? Rossi may be of the opinion he can pick up the $’s for his discovery whereever and whenever he wants. And in reality, the cost of R&D for his device is inconsequential if the EROEI has any meaning when used in terms of discovery.

  • Marc Irvin

    Not very impressive. I live in Connecticut, in the USA, and pay .0745 per kWh. Generally compared to the rest of the world our gas is cheap too.

    • stuey81

      Marc, well at 31.85 cents per kilowatt here in Australia, im more than impressed. Mabey the e-cat has no market in Conneticut, but its a modern day miricle for Australia (this is the price without GST, and Carbon tax factored in BTW)

      • lukedc

        Yep minimum $600 a quarter here in Australia. Simple three person family that uses little to no heating in winter and a handful of days running the air con in summer. Lol @ Marc, it will come to the states don’t worry about that!

      • Peter_Roe

        Just for comparison, the price of power here (UK) is 18.519 pence per kWh – 30.3 cents AUD or 24 cents US, so we are being ripped off almost as much as aussies are. I suspect the same is probably true for most of Europe.

        Camoron is currently trying to get a ‘green tax’ subsidy for nuclear energy bolted on which would add enormously to this figure (up to 9 pence/unit has been suggested, i.e., a 50% increase).

      • phlatbeer

        You are aware of course, that for a person to utilise their own power supply 24/7, they must, in most Australian states (probably all), meet certain conditions before using “portable power supplies”, such as not having their residence, or else-wise living within Coo-ee of a SWER or other “State” power supply grid. Unless the law is changed, I see little effect on current electrical supply costs in the immediate post LENR release as a new, marketable, personal, electrical power generating device.

  • stuey81

    9 cents a kilowatt, HA! i just recieved my quaterly electricity bill for my 4 bedroom house here in australia, it was a shocking $1990.85c AUD, they charge us here down under a whopping 31.85 cents per kilowatt! (remember this is aussie dollars, worth over 1.02cents american) they reckon my usage is 65kw/h on average per day. Also have you guys heard of our carbon tax? $9 per $100 of usage, and oh yeah, they have a thing here called GST, thats a further 10% ontop of all that, for gods sake, hurry this tech up so we aussies can tell our prime minister to go jump! even if you go solar in this country there is no law to say that any excess pumped back into the grid must be credited against your account, the best deal going at the moment thru avaialbe service providers is 6 – 7 cents per kilowatt that you generate, so say im not home and i provide the grid with 10 kilowatt of power, i get mabey 70 cents (if im lucky) credited to my account, then when i get home i have to buy thier power at over 31 cents a kilowatt, ROSSI ARE YOU LISTEING? aussies need your tech yesterday!!!

    • stuey81

      you yanks have it sooooo good, cheap power, and cheap fuel, ive heard that you guys winge about $4 a gallon for gasoline, try closer to $7 a gallon here in Australia, I reckon that there would be protests in the streets in the U.S if when you guys woke up tommorow and your gasoline was $7 a gallon, and your electricity was 31+ cents per kilowatt, am i correct? – U.s, you have it good – trust me!

      • Jim

        If you count:

        > the current direct cost of defending oil infrastructure in middle east
        > the current direct cost of failing highway infrastructure
        > the future cost of compensating for global warming
        > the opportunity cost of old transportation modes

        maybe not so cheap.

        But hey, yeah, cheap at the credit card bill!

        • stuey81

          hey jim, us aussies dont get our oil from the middle east, this crap about every time there is a hiccup in the middle east thats why our petrol goes up is a farse

          we source our oil from asia here.

          • Omega Z

            stuey81

            Every Country has it’s burdens. Australians apparently carry a high tax burden on Energy. In the U.S. those taxes are elsewhere. Just applied in a different manner. One thing We definitely have in Common. Our Politicians don’t always look out for the best interests of their citizens.

            I would add that One Burden the U.S. takes upon itself is subsidizing the World & most aren’t aware of in many ways.

            The Big one is our Military expense. It saves Australia the expense of a large military. Along with Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, S. Korea, In fact most of the World. Most have a Military just big Enough for a short term defense.

            That’s all that’s needed. I have great respect for your Countrymen, but Should a Nation such as China tread your way, the Outcome would not be good. But Your Leaders know that wont happen. The U.S. will intervene on Australia’s behalf. An Official Request would be a formality. We’ll have already Engaged.

            A little known or mentioned fact. Tho Many Countries don’t like some of the U.S. politicians metaling in their affairs,(And I Agree) the thought of the U.S. not being around frightens them. This apples to both Friend & Foe.

            The U.S. is the 800# Gorilla in the room that keeps most of the Mischief makers at bay. The Pacific fleet build up is Specifically to keep China from Expanding Military Control to it’s neighbors. Expansion that would likely Include Australia & it’s Coal reserves eventually.

            Note: Most Wars are fought for the FEW. Food, Energy, Water. LENR could go a long way in alleviating these Resource problems.

    • admin

      Thanks for sharing this, stuey — certainly have opened up my eyes regarding what Australians have to pay for electricity, I had assumed that a coal-rich country would have relatively cheap electricity. Certainly demonstrates the huge need for a tech like the E-Cat.

      • stuey81

        Not only are we coal rich, we also have a large percentage of the worlds gas supplies (we call it gas here not propane btw). There is a saying here atm, “whether to Heat, or eat” its really getting to the point where people cant afford to run a simple heater during winter time! i feel sorry for the old age pensioners and war widows.

        • hempenearth

          In Victoria we recently had an increase but that is to 27 cents/kWh (from 25.03 c/kWh).
          The energy companies have rigged the market rules so that the more they spend on infrastructure the more they can charge consumers and the more profit they make. So we are getting “gold plated” infrastructure that is not really needed. I’d be happy to pay the extra if they were actually putting the poles and wires underground to prevent bushfires but mostly they are not! It is good to see one company being sued because one of their inadequately maintained poles was the cause of one of the Black Saturday bushfires.

        • Ivan_cev

          Yes, and around as we have quasimonopolies, and the law favor the big capital. so we ultra capitalist.

      • phlatbeer

        Call me a pessimistic Aussie, but tell me, what on earth makes everyone seem to think LENR is going to be our financial saviour, the panacea to our energy costs, betcha a crossover LENR – Green (Carbon tax) is all ready in place just not enacted. It’s about another 18 months until the carbon tax goes feral (trades on world Ex’s)with banksters finger prints all over it can you honestly see the CT rescinded? Let alone what it is claimed the tax was to be used for, such as Discovering new green technologies to ween Australia off coal,LPG,NG, etc. Nope Status Quo LENR or not.

        • Peter_Roe

          Yep. But just think about how good you will feel, knowing that your power bill is going towards helping to save the planet.

          • phlatbeer

            :)

    • Robert Mockan

      Has a cost study ever been done as to why the fuels are so expensive? Sounds like you need to nationalize your energy industry, but not under state control. Instead place it under control of a citizens committee that serves the public interest. Socialism? No, citizens vote on the price consistent with responsible use of the resource, but managerial functions are allocated through the committee members (who can be voted out if they also become corrupt).

      • stuey81

        Robert, our power provider claims that of that 31.85 cents per kilowatt, around 22 of those cents are for the infrastructure and are unavoidable. i fail to see how this isnt a straight out lie and that they are indeed profiteering. Considering our power lines and poles are state owned. BTW the 31.85cents per kw/h is the price without factoring in GST which is 10% and our new Carbon tax ($9 per $100 dollars of usage) your thoughts?

        • Robert Mockan

          I bet if the “unavoidable” costs were itemized, with a breakdown of where every dollar was going, there would be many ways to reduce them. My thoughts about the carbon tax are the same as my thoughts about all taxes. Someday people will laugh at all the ways coercion by government was rationalized as necessary, and always called something else.

          • stuey81

            i agree, its all wealth re-distrubtion, also that volcano in chille that postponed all thoses international flights a little while back spewed out more carbon into the atmosphere in two weeks than mankind has made scince the industrial revolution! so i guess our government can just wright them a massive carbon tax bill and let our country off the hook then, considering we only attribute less than 2.5% of the worlds carbon emmisions annualy! lol

            • Omega Z

              stuey81

              Broken down in detail, you’ll probably find most of the costs is taxes or fees of some type for Government programs. If people new the details they could then decide to pay them or discontinue the fee. All depends on where the money actually goes & what people are willing to pay for.

              There’s a saying: A Rose by any other name is Still a Rose.

              Politicians have their Own Saying: A Tax by any other name is Not a Tax.

              Example: A $40 dollar depletion fee per barrel. That’s a $1 increase per Gallon. Depletion Fee is Not a Tax?

              Off the Coast of the U.S. dismantling an Oil Platform. $50 Million Decommissioning Fee is Not a Tax?

              Just to note that 90% of all Oil resources are owned by Governments. 100% is controlled buy Regulations. They decide Who, What, When, Where & How much these Resources will cost. Business can move on to other products & will if properly managed.

              This is why I say Governments have the Most to lose from LENR. They are slower to respond & usually requires different Taxing Schemes. The People naturally resist all taxes.

              This Requires the Governments to hire people to come up with trendy names for fees to hide that tax from the Public. Anything that doesn’t Sound like Tax.

              • Omega Z

                stuey81

                Hidden Tax.

                In the U.S. Everyone pays about 15% of their earnings in Social Security, Disability, Medicare/Medicaid & Don’t even Realize it.

                About half is taken out when you receive your pay check. The Rest is paid by the Employer. This is added to the price of the product. Everytime we buy something, we are paying the Other Half. Most totally unaware. That’s the kind of Taxes the Government likes. Nobody pointing a finger at them.

                • Barry

                  Omega, being self-employed I pay both halfs and insurance is through the roof. I thought if I go bust I could always move to Australia. Any of you Aussies know where there’s a rental?

                • Omega Z

                  Barry

                  Been there, Done That.

                  Also Minimum tax even in a bad year.

          • lukedc

            The salaries at Energy Australia are utterly amazing. I’m a graduate engineer (CS) and earn 100k a year. I had a mate that is a sparky and sold his business because he had the chance to get a job as a linesman. He now gets 175k inc overtime and laughs at me. Left in Yr 10 and did his trade as an electrician. I think they really need to look at the whole thing, it stinks.

        • phlatbeer

          I believe infrastructure/maintenance/replacement costs of state owned assets are all jumbled up, if it looks old, replace it with latest tech gear, if its broken, replace it with latest tech gear, don’t worry about consumer end costs. Sell all power generating facilities; competition between owners will demand up to date/future technology all at a time when fiscally, energy providers would be better off looking to consolidation of assets, particularly, with the true outcome of LENR becomming more clearer and present poor global financial situation. Utilities Water, Power,Sanitary (are public owned – should be)are necessary not like a TV or car or microwave etc. producers of theses toys don’t go flat out on expansion programs if financial world wide woes exist and charge more for their product, but if you own a public utility! There is probably no real right/wrong time for asset accumulation, but I believe there is for upping fees and charges and now is surely not the right time. All-in-all, I think the global financial mess will not see LENR or any other similar revolution reduce overall global power/energy costs.

  • joe j

    wow, a 4 year payoff period for a bit of steam pipe and some secret herbs and spices. This is all still inline with what i expect from this entire affair.

    Go free energy.

  • GreenWin

    Slightly off topic of Proia; but appropriate for followers of NASA. Sterling Allen takes quite a swing at NASA and their role in DGT’s new verification by a NASA employee (though purportedly paid by a separate NGO):

    “If NASA doesn’t get aboard the LENR bandwagon soon, it won’t take long for the alternative science community of the world to make them obsolete and no more needed than a used piece of toilet paper. The longer they wait, the harder it will be for them to stay relevant in this day of division as an awakened population forges ahead in this revolutionary metamorphosis to launch an enlightened world. If they don’t transform, and show a changed heart, they will be left behind.” Sterling Allen PESN 10,22,2012

    Personally, I take exception to the TP comment. NASA has completed many great tasks and may continue to do so by supporting LENR/Cold Fusion. But I agree, they need a change of heart, and a lot more courage.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      GreenWin: “Personally, I take exception to the TP comment. NASA has completed many great tasks and may continue to do so by supporting LENR/Cold Fusion.”
      ~~~~~~~~~
      Last year, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden told Al Jazeera television that President Obama gave him three primary tasks: encourage children to learn about math and science, improve relations with foreign nations and “perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering.” http://www.humanevents.com/2011/07/26/nasas-new-mission-boost-the-muslim-worlds-selfesteem/

      • Omega Z

        I would have thought the first task should be directed to the Secretary of Education & the latter 2 to Foreign affairs.

        NASA is now NAFA: National And Foreign Affairs.

      • Barry

        Iggy, you might want to try to get your info from a more reliable source, like the National Inquirer.

  • captain kirk

    “The first product on the market will be the “Gas Cat” I’m confused…..I believe the 1MW Electric drive E-Cat is the first product on the market…… google translation “The product which will open in fact the market is the Gas Cat, namely the ‘E-Cat thermal gas powered, Does this mean the Gas Cat will be the first product on the market or perhaps Aldo is saying due to the much faster payback period of the gas vs electric drive that the Gas Cat will be much more popular and “open the market” but not be the first product on the market?

  • Redford

    Commercial empty talk. True or empty statements holding no facts at all.

  • Voodoo

    “The first product on the market will be the “Gas Cat”
    ——————————————————

    I translated this note of Aldo Proia to understandable fact:

    Whole theatre is DELAYED for another 4 months.

    Gas-Cat is probably not certified yet. So: build, tests, certification process, etc. etc.

    Nightmare of some here poster is real: Rossi really love neverending NEW versions of his no-products (which “are already on market”).

    • Max S

      exactly, that’s what it means. No product in the market.
      And still no independent verification.
      But the big university report is expected next week, isn’t it ?

    • HeS

      You are right. On the other hand Rossi cant sell Ecat on “open market” without patents. It looks like it is blocked and has to wait for the results of other scientists.

  • Kim G. Patterson

    Here is a site with an interesting control diagram
    of Andrea Rossi’s system.

    http://rulev-igor.narod.ru/theme_142.html

    Respect
    Kim

    • GreenWin

      VERY interesting Kim. I especially like Figure 6. a tri-generation plot for a single Rossi Power Cell to provide heat, hot water, cool air/water AND electricity. This represents the home run for RPC applications. A single unit let’s say located in a single family home basement, produces heat, hot water and electricity year around. In summer, turning on the chiller module, the RPC produces cool air for air conditioning. This is the way all energy systems will go, eventually eliminating old grids, thousands of miles of transmission lines, towers, breakers, transformers, switches and sundry unnecessary grid hardware.

      • Kim G. Patterson

        When the catalyst is known, one should be able
        to construct a crude heating device easily

        I would not use the hydrogen hydride, I would
        go back to the canister Hydrogen for home use.

        Respect
        Kim

        • Fibber McGourlick

          Then you’ll both be busted for operating an illegal still.

    • Robert Mockan

      That is an impressive summary of the control system. Here in the USA we tend to underestimate what is available outside the country on web sites, and few Americans are multilingual as are citizens in Europe. So unless a site is translated to English and a search engine spider indexes it, it never gets seen in the US. When I saw the link you posted I tried to find some key words or phrases that would pull up that link using Google or Dogpile search engines. Got nothing.

      So thank you posting the web site link. (LOL! Even when I bookmarked it comes up as “untitled”).

      • GreenWin

        I get “untitled” too. They could fix that by labeling the IP address.

      • AstralProjectee

        Contact the admin of the site and tell them.

    • daniel maris

      Thanks – I’ve bookmarked that for future reference!

    • Peter_Roe

      It all looks feasible and well thought through, but what is the provenance of this information, and why is the ‘applications’ table in german?

  • barty

    Isn’t it worth enough to bring a new article about the Dennis Bushnell interview which was released on October 20th by american antigravity?

    In this interview Bushnell mentioned that NASA has enough evidence LENR and the excess heat is for real.

  • Robert Mockan

    Rossi says “..natural gas as the drive..”. If true, then that supports the fact the catalyst can be just thermally activated. So the active material is nickel, a spillover promoter, hydrogen gas, and he uses a hydrogen storage compound to release and absorb hydrogen dependent on temperature. Using natural gas to supply the heat means electric input was a convenience, and not a necessity.

    We should find out soon what the response is by “regulatory” authority when information about how to make the catalyst becomes public, and any person can make it.

    This will happen. Imagine if you will a You Tube video disclosing the “secret”. Will it be removed from the Internet? Or a brochure of a few pages is published as an e-book? Will it be published? What will happen to people trying to disclose the information? Anything? Nothing?

    Perhaps the information should be sent as an email to every news organization in the world anonymously?

    Anybody have any ideas about how such disclosure should be made? Perhaps people will talk about should disclosure be made or not.

    It is going to happen. It appears that LENR is not “rocket science” after all. Maybe there has been an effort to suppress the technology. Because it really was as simple and common a phenomena as it is beginning to appear now. It was not developed not because it was too difficult, but because it was too simple?

    • Fibber McGourlick

      What about patent restrictions? This isn’t music. Or do you think the laws of civilized countries will be abrogated in this particular case?

      • Robert Mockan

        Good questions. Do you think people will comply with the patent laws, if any person can make catalyst and use it in reactors of their own design? And if that does happen, how will those people be found out? If found out, how will they be punished?

        • GreenWin

          Robert, the fact we know how to build a refrigerant compressor system, does not drive people to the hardware store to build their own refrigerators. We know how to make gunpowder too. But only a very few Ted Nugent types actually assemble their own shells.

          Point is, the LENR mass market is in known, branded products with safety certification and a 10 year warranty. If the Rossi Power Cell is at the heart of a small, 10-15kW CHP system driving a Stirling cycle or turbine genset at 30% electric efficiency, plus heat and hot water – the revolution cannot be stopped.

          Even applying 1MW e-cats to light industry needs for heat and electric will rocket the market in energy products. With Siemens AG, recent announce they are selling off their solar divisions, the handwriting is on the wall. The Rossi Power Cell will find a place at the heart of many LENR systems. Even if we can make our own catalyst.

          • Robert Mockan

            I agree. Therefore there should be no problem revealing the details of making the catalyst. And no problem when people can make reactors, using published designs, costing a fraction of the commercial product.

          • Robert Mockan

            Those might not be the best examples. I have built my own refrigeration compressor and used it to make liquid air. And I have made many different kinds of gunpowder and used it with fired shell casings to make my own ammunition. A person learns quickly doing these kind of projects that just about everything is overpriced commercially, easy to learn how to do, and makes one smarter in many ways. I know private built reactors would be cost effective, because I’ve already done the cost analysis for many different designs. With catalyst, they are all good to go.

            • Ivan_cev

              but you are 1 in a million so no issue there.

              • Robert Mockan

                I doubt the number is that low in any group. Depends on the group. In this forum many of the visitors like building things, or are creative in other ways. I would not be surprised if many of the people here have done more with machines. How about yourself?

                • Ivan_cev

                  I may build a reactor if I find out how to make it work, but I am also an exception to the rule. most people do not know to change a power point or a switch for a light.
                  But maybe a wave of hobbyist will appear once they know is not to difficult.
                  But still will not affect big business, remember the insurance companies will not insure you house if you use and unsupported/uncertified device.

            • Robert Mockan

              cancel

              • Roger

                This is mad.
                If the power source is gas then the ECAT just become a very efficient gas boiler or CHP unit.
                This is completely the wrong. It should be run of electrical power, not everyone has a gas supply, the (small) ECAT will initial be taken up by enthusiasts who may have their own off grid systems.
                As for heat being the catalyst – this really does open the door for replicators to replicate it. Personally I don’t think it is just heat, I would say there maybe a RF source running at some resonant frequency and/or a second compound mixed in with the nickel.

      • barty

        The pressure to the patent offices is increasing rapidly.
        More and more people are accepting that LENR is for real, and the only thing that’s missing is a mass replicated working LENR device, like the Celani reactor could be one.

        I find it impressive how some mass media magazines are reporting about LENR in a positive way in the last days.

        This is the first step to unmitigated acceptance.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        In any case one usually cannot patent chemical formulas, physical laws and things like those.

    • Jim

      So maybe for LENR there has been a moderately sized set of moderately high barriers to replication, as opposed to hot fusion, where there is a very large set of very high barriers.

      Barriers to LENR replications could include:
      > nickel alloy composition
      > nano-structure on the surface of the alloy
      > ability to handle hydrogen
      > ability to measure and refine COP
      > mass discouragement from many sources
      > ?
      > ?

      Light bulb, Wright Flyer, you name it, lots of parameters had to be found. Once found, no brainer.

    • Jim

      Probability of full disclosure on internet is directly proportional to the number of people who know about it. We’ve already seen “leaks” that would appear to violate NDA’s around Leonardo’s work. It’s only a matter of time before the information reaches some human mind that possesses the necessary combination of greed, do-goodism, fame-seeking, vengeance, carelessness and/or recklessness (plus the ability to post things online!).

      There appear to be a number of posters here on ecatworld that advocate immediate disclosure. What would prevent them from doing so, if they had the information in hand?

      • Robert Mockan

        Getting information online is probably the least difficult.

        Web cams can upload to You Tube and social sites now with one click. (I use a C510 now myself, but also have an older LIVE!CAM about somewhere).

        There is enough information about how to make catalysts available online to set up experiments to make and test potential LENR catalyst formulations.

        The science search engine SCIRUS provides access to information about how to make catalyst materials as simply as the Google search engine does for everything else people want to know about.

        The biggest problem seems to be a lack of knowledge about how to make simple double-wall isoperibolic calorimeters for measuring heat energy, while maintaining a reaction cell at whatever base temperature one wants.

        For example the Ni-H LENR system does not become active until about 380 C. The temperature of a reaction chamber can be raised to that with resistance heating, the power level measured using a control sample that does not generate excess power, then the control sample replaced with a test sample.

        If the same electric power in is used to heat the calorimeter with the test sample, but now it measures 450 C instead of 380 C, then one has an active LENR catalyst, with the extra thermal power coming from the catalyst.

        But even this problem is easy to solve if one reads even a little of the relevant literature on the subject. For example THE SCIENCE OF LOW ENERGY NUCLEAR REACTIONS by Edmund Storms has a complete section, (section 7-9, pp 151 to 172), about simple calorimeters that have been built and used, even by students in high school, that can be used for this kind of measurement and testing.

        So it is just a matter of time.

    • Omega Z

      Robert

      Electricity will still be required albeit at much lower levels.
      100 E-cats at ??Watts each verses 1.6Kw each.

      Trying to decide if Rossi is trying to satisfy Customer needs or placating TPTB or Both. It’s probably both. Using NG keeps TPTB happy short term(Years) & Makes the Customer happy cost wise. It will take time for LENR to produce Electric capacity at lower costs. Short term(years) increased Electric demand would probably increase cost per Kwh possibly with a net Negative gain or longer payback.

      A Transitional Phase will minimize Economic disruptions.

  • zvibenyosef

    China has now surpassed the United States in its emission of carbon dioxide gas. We need to help them find a clean energy alternative quickly, if only to save ourselves

  • Sanjeev

    Can Andrea Rossi’s Infinite-Energy Black Box Power The World–Or Just Scam It?

    http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-10/andrea-rossis-black-box

    The article is now online.

    • barty

      Look at the comment section.
      I’m tired to read such comments everytime.

      It’s time to bring indisputable evidence to the public.

      Celani should do more public demos at scientific institutions.

      • Peter_Roe

        The for-hire professional shills are out in numbers I haven’t seen for quite a while. Even this half-hearted endorsement of CF seems to be something someone desperately wants to go away. I have to admit that these unpleasant individuals are beginning to get up my nose.

        • GreenWin

          Pathoskep commentary rises directly proportional to their puppet master’s desperation. The puppet masters are seriously DESPERATE right now. They have seen the handwriting everywhere. They are panicking. Wonder if they have a properly equipped Panic Room??

          • freethinker

            But do note that our beloved maryyogo does consider Celanis data possibly above the noise level, while effectively and sumarily executeing a row of other well known names in lenr science. What is it with that? A crack in the facade?

            She(?) also celebrate Krivit which is convinced Lenr is real, and hope that WL will turn out to be correct. I can only recall maryyogo being hellbent on that all things cold fusion was delusionary or basis of scams.

            Maybe it is a sign of the times. LENR times.

            • Peter_Roe

              Definitely a (?)! ‘Maryyugo’ was outed some time ago as a retired executive of a California company making thermal sensors and related instruments. He posts under a variety of pseudonyms.

    • Sanjeev

      “Two more plants would be going out the door in September.”

      This is a news. What happened? Did they go out?

      • Peter_Roe

        They probably had to throw away a couple of dead African Violets.

        • freethinker

          When I read your reply, I went blank. English is not my native tongue. When it clicked I laughed my head of. Nasty, that one. :-)

    • barty

      Best positive comment so far:

      “Yes… Rossi may be a crackpot, but what about:

      -The US NAVY SPAWAR LENR research, claiming that LENR is real.
      -Mike McKubre of SRI International.
      -Dennis Bushnell, Chief Scientist of NASA Langley, who says that LENR is one of the most promissing future energy sources.
      -George Miley, University of Illinois, who is developing a LENR RTG energy generator for NASA.
      -Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy, who claims to have a LENR technology ready for comercial use, validated by Los Alamos & SRI.
      -Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies, claiming that have a truly revolutionary LENR technology.
      -Francesco Piantelli and Nichenergy.
      -Francesco Celani, National Institute of Nuclear Physics, Frascati National Laboratories
      -The element transmutation LENR experiments of Mitsubishi and Toyota.
      -The Arata Cold Fusion experiments.
      -Prof Igor Goryachev, Kurchatov Institute (Russia)
      -ST Microelectronics LENR research team.
      -Thermacore LENR experiments.
      – ETC, ETC…

      There is A LOT of evidence that sugest that LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions) are real.

      It is incredible how dogmatic and arrogant science has become, thinking than theory predates observation and despising every new discovery that doesnt conform to the current theories as if we already know everything.

      Why this research field has been scorned wrongfully when there is so much evidence suggesting that it is totally legitimate?

      Doctors Fleischmann and Pons should have received the Nobel Prize for their contributions to science, but nothing will compensate them for the injustice to which they were subjected since 1989. Dr. Fleischmann died in August, so he will never see compensation for the destruction of his scientific career.

      Personally I think that a technological revolution is about to begin.

      Please, follow this link and investigate for yourselfs about what is happening in the LENR field right now:

      http://www.slideshare.net/tylervan/lenr

      Thats like a bomb :)

  • georgehants

    Discover Magazine. Science, Technology and The Future
    Environment / Subatomic Particles
    by Mark Anderson
    From the November 2012 issue; published online October 23, 2012
    Big Idea Bring Back the “Cold Fusion” Dream
    A new theory may explain the notorious cold fusion experiment from two decades ago, reigniting hopes of a clean-energy breakthrough.
    http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/27-big-idea-bring-back-the-cold-fusion-
    Read at —–
    dream?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DiscoverPhysicsMath+%28Discover+Physics+%26+Math%29

    • http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/27-big-idea-bring-back-the-cold-fusion-dream/?searchterm=lenr Andrew
      • Ged

        W-L theory… I really don’t think that even remotely matches observations (considering low energy gamma rays are a common feature of LENR), but we’ll have to see. Definitely my least favorite LENR theory based on the data (and from their attempts to call fusion of a nuclear particle “transmutation” to avoid the fusion name), but we go where the data takes us, so let’s find out once people start doing experiments based on it.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          It’s my least favoured “theory” too. It has many fatal problems, one of which is the following. While it is correct that the inelastic neutron-nucleus cross sections are typically large when the energy is low, the elastic cross sections are even larger. Thus, an ultracold neutron within room temperature metal nearly always first reacts elastically with a nucleus and is thereby rapidly thermalised towards the lattice temperature, after which it behaves as a thermal neutron.

          If an ultracold neutron would so eagerly react inelastically with nearby nuclei as WLT claim, such neutrons would be observed to disappear when put into matter. But we know from observations that that doesn’t happen even if the matter is cryogenic let alone at room temperature or higher. Because if it would happen when the matter is cryogenic, the production of ultracold neutrons would be impossible, because such neutrons are made by letting normal room temperature neutrons react with cryogenic material.

          • Ged

            Absolutely true. The whole way that neutron radiation damages tissue is through those elastic collisions and the ionization that occurs from bouncing off a proton and imparting kinetic energy to it. It’s all similar to the classical Newtonian balls smacking into each other sort of physics, from what I understand.

            If WLT was right, then one would expect neutron radiation wouldn’t even be dangerous in the same sense as it actually is, since it would work via a completely different pathway.

            Additionally, we use neutrons to image matter such as bio-macromolecules. If neutrons did not scatter elastically, and if inelastic pathways were more prevalent like WLT theory supposes, then the highly successful neutron imaging methods used in science would not even be possible.

            Thanks for your thoughts Pekka; it’s nice having that concise reminder of why WLT is lacking.

    • Peter_Roe

      The whole article reads like one of kribit’s ads for WL. Strange he’s not credited. Summary: Pons and Fleishmann had nothing. Whatever this is it’s not cold fusion – OK?

      • GreenWin

        As pointed out earlier, this is the MO from the USA-related research projects. WL, is meant to capture USPTO approval, so NASA and Kirvit pet projects get US patent protection. But with WL being so full of holes, such patents might not even hold up in international courts.

        The insipid attempt to rewrite history and claim Pons and Fleischmann did nothing – will fail. Too many good people know the truth. Cold fusion was discovered by F&P, supported by a group of renegade scientists, and revived for commerce by Andrea Rossi. There is He4, gamma, heat, funny neutrons, (maybe)below ground H, – it’s FUSION. COLD FUSION. Live with it skeps.

    • Pedro

      We all get a bit excited about MSM publishing these LENR articles, but what if it is an immunisation campagne? A kind of vacination? Millions of people now get a bit of the story, but in such a way that they get a very low key picture of LENR as being very speculative and even farther away than hot fusion. This way the chance that they get over enthusastic when they come across the LENR story is minimised. could that be the purpose of these articles?

      • freethinker

        I think it is not completely unlikely, infact rather possible. Spin Doctor 101 standard procedure.
        As LENR moves ahead and AR, Defk and others get devices ready for mass market, there will most likely be a ramp up in efforts trying to discredit the tech. They have tried the dumb fool route, the scam route, and possibly, they try to control the emergence of Lenr to a wider mass, by, like you say, give a low key picture.

      • Jim

        I had that same thought. Add the troll bait factor and one gets the effect you describe.

      • Peter_Roe

        That does seem likely. In fact it follows rather well Arther C. Clarkes ‘steps to acceptance’ of a novel phenomenon or technology by the establishment:
        (1) “It’s completely impossible — don’t waste my time”;
        (2) “It’s possible, but it’s not worth doing”;
        (3) “I said it was a good idea all along.”

        I would add an additional possible step in the case of cold fusion:
        (2a) “It’s real, but its dangerous” i.e., ‘You children mustn’t play with matches, so we have to take them away from you”.

  • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

    (Previous thread topic, tried to post there but was automoderated)
    Concerning catalysts, one possible source of inspiration might be materials used as welding fluxes. These include e.g. potash (k.e. K2CO3 et al.), borax, carbon and lead sulfide. See the w-pedia page for Flux metallurgy for details (I think giving its url would trigger moderation).

    • Ged

      Very interesting idea. If only we had our own reactors to play with.

  • Gerrit

    The hot cat on the market within a year (within 2013). A “gas cat” will be the first product on the market, ie before the hot cat, so also 2013.

    – when in 2013 ?
    – who will be the customer ?

    • Peter_Roe

      A version of the hot cat that burns gas to provide the heat input would be ideal for any fixed installation that is currently burning gas to provide process heat or to make steam. The logical buyer would be a small power station, to act a pilot for conversion of the entire generation industry.

      If Rossi plans to offer a drop-in replacement for existing gas boilers, I would think that adapting an existing package gas boiler design to CF would take at least a year, but that would assume that the ‘gas cat’ was already perfected. I have to say that this timetable seems a little optimistic to me, unless Rossi is able to form a development partnership with an established manufacturer of industrial gas fired generators.

  • Giuliano Bettini

    To be honest, it does not seem so simple.
    Aldo Proia says in the interview:
    “Franco Battaglia, professore presso l’Università di Modena, che ne è un noto esempio (…di scettico), ha posto numerose domande tecniche, incuriosito dalla precedente presentazione sommaria dell’invenzione, e non ha avuto nulla da eccepire su quanto è stato detto da Rossi e dai suoi collaboratori.”
    (i.e. Franco Battaglia was not – critical about Rossi).

    In fact, Franco Battaglia came back from Pordenone and………
    http://www.ilmovimentodopinione.it/jo/index.php/item/1106-fusione-fredda.html
    “In the current state of what is known, Focardi & Rossi with entrepreneurs who support them, appear to be like magicians who show rabbits coming out from magic cylinders, under the pretense of wanting to sell those cylinders to rabbit farmers.
    Franco Battaglia, October 21, 2012”
    Lol.

    • David

      Franco Battaglia is famous in Italy for many stupid statements like: “Chernobyl has caused zero deaths”. So who does care about him?

      • Peter_Roe

        Makes you wonder what goes on in the heads of people like that. It’s obviously not thought.

  • e-dog
    • GreenWin

      These guys are doing fantastic work. It’s beginning to feel like a rising tsunami of knowledge is about to wash over planet Earth. In a very positive way. Thanks e-dog.

  • jedslater

    “He doesn’t expect that domestic E-Cat units will be available for two years based on certification requirements.”
    So that would be in 2015? as time goes by…… I believe that other systems will surf the market before that.

    • Warthog

      I think you’re right. And I don’t think Rossi’s design will turn out to be the “best” approach. I think that the doors are blowing off the subject, and a LOT of new researchers, both university and private, will be entering the field with innovative approaches.

      • phlatbeer

        As I have mentioned Before, (and as have many others) a part of the solution – perhaps a major part of the solution, may be found in affirmation of intellectual property rights. Until the “workers” involved with the evolution of LENR, CF or whatever can fully protect their property rights internationally, then those players involved will, understandably, be reluctant to provide their “essential” piece of information into the pool, in a timely manner.

        • clovis

          Hi,
          I say first to market with a good product, takes all–

        • Peter_Roe

          There are some applications where a patent or patents may not be necessary, and I think that is where Rossi at least is headed.

          A couple that spring to mind would be CF boilers in steam turbine naval vessels, and power stations. The military could not afford to try to take supplied units apart for reverse engineering purposes, without seriously damaging its relationship with other military contractors, and the power generation companies would not want to jeopardise their access to the technology.

          This might also apply to other large-scale potential users, none of whom would want to risk being cut out of the loop, and many of whom would have no capacity for manufacture anyway. There is always the danger of employees going freelance, but things seem to be moving quickly now, and Rossi need to start getting some product out in substantial quantity, before some dark horse overtakes him.

          • GreenWin

            Remember too that production of a working device, commercialized for sale (like e-cat LT) makes for hard to oppose IP protection internationally. Rossi may get his patents by default.

          • clovis

            Hi, Pete,

            and Rossi needs to start getting some product out in substantial quantity, before some dark horse overtakes him.

            It’s hard to try an second guess such an intelligent, man, and so for Mr. Rossi has not failed to always impress me with his continual up grading of his product,
            ( I think his has the secret sauce),
            that produces the most energy and everyone with all their great ideas can’t reproduce his energy out put.- he has the lead and everyone else is following,—smile,—-To Dr. Rossi hang tight cowboy.

            • Peter_Roe

              As you say clovis, its hard to second guess Rossi – but there are other very intelligent people ‘out there’ who could be quietly getting close to him.

              Possibly more importantly, opposition from vested interests still seems scattered and incoherent, but it is probably only a matter of time before some big players understand the full implications and get their act together. Rossi needs to have made commercial sales (almost certainly to industrial customers) and created a splash in public awareness some time before this point is reached.

    • Omega Z

      jedslater

      First to market will have to overcome all the same Barriers that Rossi is facing. So Rossi is still the Lead.

      Regardless of Whoever does become the first, It will be much easier for those who follow. The Glass Ceiling will have been broken.