Forbes’ Mark Gibbs on Defkalion Report

Forbes columnist Mark Gibbs has been one of the few members of the mainstream press who has paid much attention to things going on in the world of cold fusion/LENR, and up until now he has been quite cautious in his assessment of the state of play in the field.

He has now written an rather optimistic article regarding the recent publication of preliminary test reports that Defkalion Green Technologies released. The title of his article is “Cold Fusion Gets a Little More Real”. As part of his research into these reports, he wanted to find out who it was that went to Greece to do the testing, since all names listed in the published documents were blacked out. As many people had already surmised, Gibbs confirmed by contacting him, that Michael A Nelson, a NASA employee, was one of the people who went to Greece to observe testing, and who wrote the executive summary of the report.

The information from the report that Gibbs found most impressive was that Nelson affirmed that DGT was able to: demonstrate an excess of energy; fully control the reaction; show that the reaction produced more energy than was possible from a chemical reaction; that the reactor was operating at a COP well in excess of 3.

Nelson told Gibbs that he did not visit DGT in his capacity as NASA employee, but that he attended on behalf of an organization called the Free Energy Foundation which paid his travel expenses.

Gibbs concludes his article by saying:

Even so, the Defkalion tests were, as far as any cold fusion experiment performed to date has gone, the best so far and they were witnessed by someone who is, for want of a better description, a serious scientist.

So, it appears that cold fusion, in the sense that the phenomena is a real and viable basis for energy generation, looks like a much better bet than it did a week ago. Now it’s up to the other players in the nascent cold fusion market – particularly Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation – to show more clearly what they’ve got.

My hat is off to Defkalion and Mr. Nelson for giving all of us who sincerely want to see cold fusion become a reality a little more hope.

I would add here that we have had reports from others cold fusion researchers, including Leonardo Corp. who published the third party July 16 report on hot cat testing, that indicate the reality of the cold fusion phenomenon. But it is good that Mark Gibbs has continued to follow developments in the field, and bring this latest DGT report to the attention of Forbes’ readership (which is much larger than that of E-Cat World!)

  • Grek

    Instead of writing about ECat the new publisher of NyTeknik now writes an editorial promoting solar power.

    The man clearly has an agenda.

  • Dear Friends,

    I have tried to explain the implications of the excellent Gibbs paper.
    It contributes to the realist vision of LENR


  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    The quote below is from the 11/29/2011 article in Ny Teknik written by Mats Lewan
    This proves to me whatever Defkalion has it was stolen from Rossi. It is my opinion Defkalion is a shell game, Rossi is the real deal.

    “- Let’s say I have Rossi’s formula, but I do not say it officially. My scientists have found a way to accomplish it. They need three months.
    It said Alexandros Xanthoulis, representative of Defkalion Green Technology ‘s owner, the New Technology in a telephone call on August 5 this year.
    – I know what is in the reactor. I know everything. It was done with spectroscopy at Siena University of Padova (…) They tested the reactor without [Rossi] knew what they were doing, he continued.”

  • Pingback: E-Cat greco: i nuovi report presentati da Defkalion - Energia - GreenStyle()

    • admin

      Thanks, got it!

  • Mark gibbs has done a fairly decent job following this story and should be commended, IMHO, especially compared to the silence or malice of the rest of MSM. It is not easy to wake up a sleeping population and change a dominant worldview.

    We should be harping on the PopSci author from last week – now that story was a hack job if I ever saw one. Assume it doesn’t work, interview random people that also think it doesn’t work and who have never seen or tested the device in person, publish that it doesn’t work. Never mind that there is a miracle afoot in LENR and that it appears we actually have a new type of nuclear reaction for the 21st century and beyond.

    Also, both gibbs and popsci have been ignoring Brillouin, who may well be the most credible higher power LENR group thus far.


  • georgehants

    New Scientist
    The big question mark over gasoline from air.
    In a shipping container on a British industrial park, not far from where George Stephenson launched the world’s first steam railway in 1825, another transport revolution might be beginning. Every day the machinery inside produces half a litre of purified gasoline. It sounds humdrum until you realise one thing: the only raw material used is air.|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|environment

  • georgehants

    The Guardian home
    Open access scientific publishing
    The inexorable rise of open access scientific publishing
    A new study shows that the rise of open access publishing of academic research is faster than anyone had previously realised
    The growth of the web has driven open access publishing.
    Read all about it: academic publishing is changing faster than anyone has realised, according to a new study reported today in BMC Medicine.
    Before 2000 the vast majority of research papers were published in journals that could only be read by academics if they — or their university libraries — paid a subscription. But since the turn of the millennium, the growth of the world wide web has been accompanied by the emergence of open access publishing, by which research papers are made freely available online. According to results published today by Laasko and Björk, over half of all research papers may now be available through open access.
    The academic publishing game has changed irrevocably.

    • georgehants

      Hopefully before to long science will be freed from the irrational position of having biased and incompetent editors and peer reviewers to censor and distort reality.
      Cold Fusion is the perfect example of the horrendous distortions caused by these people.
      It I think, would be good to Free science from all attempts from the establishment to silence subjects not deemed “appropriate” and let science once again move forward with a search for the Truth.

    • Peter_Roe

      This is a very welcome development for all the reasons you suggest.

  • georgehants

    From Scientific American
    Energy & Sustainability
    October 22, 2012
    Rising Energy Costs May Usher in U.S. Freight Rail Revival
    Rail built America in the 19th century and now it may be poised for a massive resurgence in the 21st century as high fuel prices make it competitive again.

    • Peter_Roe

      Perhaps a new generation of steam locomotives powered by 5MW CF boilers is on the way! Airships may be out due to lack of helium, but at least we could see steam on the rails again. (Unfortunately they will probably look just like diesels).

      • clovis

        Hi, Guys,
        What’s the old saying, there is nothing new in the world, or something.–Smile.

        • clovis

          What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

          Ecclesiastes 1:9.

  • Sanjeev

    Like other readers here, who are keeping a close watch on LENR evolution, I too disliked Gibbs a lot. But this article has soften me a bit. I think he is just ignorant, not a pathoskep or paid dis-informer.

    We have only 2 guys in mainstream who write anything about LENR, the second is Lewans of NYTeknik, who seems to have gone to the dark side. He did not cover the DGT report. (May be he will). Note that he promptly published the negative results of Rossi’s test by unknown people and thats all he published in so many months when fascinating stuff was happening.

    I suggest we educate Gibbs on the matter rather than throwing stones at him, so that more positive stuff appears on Forbes. Other media people will surely pick it from there.

    • freethinker

      Mats Lewan has been tweeting about major lenr events. Check his tweets @
      I think it is NyTeknik who has become more cautious with regard to what they let into print.

      • Grek

        Since NyTeknik changed publisher the positive articles about ECat immediately stopped. The new publisher is a handpicked socialist that previously was boss over one of the largest trade unions in Sweden called Unionen.

        I can also add that the new publisher has high stakes in the environment movement. He is a typical status quo type of person.

      • Sanjeev

        Did he tweet anything about NyTeknik not publishing his better articles ?

    • Torbjörn

      I have noticed that there are many here who believe in conspiracies, aliens visiting Earth and psuedo science. I’m not one of them, but I became sure that the low temperature version of E-Cat works when I read the report of the demonstration in October the sixth 2011 by Mats Lewan. (Mats Lewan would have to lie if the E-Cat does not work.)

      So do not assume that Mats Lewan have “gone to the dark side.”
      Besides, he has said that he wont publish any articles before third party validitiations has been publiched.

      • georgehants

        Torbjörn, one must clearly distinguish between “believers” and those who choose to follow scientific principles.
        If there is Evidence for example UFO’s, then stating a negative or positive belief is pointless, one simply does the research, with an open unbiased mind.
        Anybody who denies doing competent research on any suspected phenomenon is no scientist, but a foolish opinion follower.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I enjoy and appreciate ChemE’s posts on vortex regarding crop circles and other woo woo stuff.

          • georgehants

            Iggy, any person or scientist that tries to “woo woo” crop circles without stating clearly that one must insist that the army or university students go out with their planks of wood, rope etc. and in one night copy exactly, one of the complex circles, without practice, as no faulty major circle has ever been seen.
            This is called scientific research and Experimentation.
            If they succeed then the chances of the circles being man-made rises powerfully.
            Anybody who does not push for this research is not a scientist.

    • Omega Z


      I would Note that NyTeknik was the Victim of A high pressure campaign not to publish LENR reports. Mat Lewan has also been reassigned to a different position. His Editor determines what he’s allowed to report Officially. I don’t hold that against Mat.

      As for Gibbs, I would like him to do more investigation. Note Also that Gibbs received most of his initial Info from the “KRIV”.

      He could look into the NI/Celeni project the MIT demo, Hydrobetatron & others to show the progress being made. If he did more in depth articles on these, I would cut him some slack.

      As for Reporting on Rossi, I would have no problem with him withholding his conclusions on the E-cat until 3rd party reports. As a reporter he shouldn’t pass judgment until verified either way. Just Fair & Balanced.

      • Sanjeev

        I’m sorry, my view of Lewan sounded a bit too negative. Actually I was wondering why he went silent on msm and one day suddenly decided to write on a failed test, as if it was a solid evidence. I see that it could be the editor or owner of the magazine.

        If he is being ‘censored’ he should stop reporting the negative stuff immediately because they will publish it selectively and it will harm his excellent image.

    • clovis

      Yep, Sanjeev,
      As usual i probably was to hard on gibbs, and for sure i appreciate all that want to ride the lenr train or join the rossi revolution,
      I just wanted to say we must be ever watchful, for those that want to derail, the e-cat, and lenr in general, but it seem’s we in idle mode right now
      waiting on our fearless engineer, to pull the throttle. smile,– and i really am smiling,

  • palace planetarian

    Sure, the Forbe’s article is imortant. But why/how can this site essentially ignore published articles in Discover and Popular Science i.e. major American popular science/main stream magazines?

    As for Dr, A. Rossi, I am amazed that he is as public as he is, given he seems to be describing one of the most important breakthroughs in human history. The list of interests, countries, companies and people etc. Who might want to kill, kidnap, and/ or control/intimidate him is to long to bother with. Do they know something we don’t? If they don’t take him seriously why do we? Maybe AR thinks he has enough security or has enough secret back up sites to guarantee release of his research whatever happens to him. I presume his investors would demand that. Still until there is peer reviewed/published research or working products available for inspection fear and suspense seem justified.

    • Peter_Roe

      Rossi seemed to rather suddenly change direction a few months back – from a focus on production of small ‘home’ heaters, to almost exclusive focus on the ‘hot cat’, while clearly downplaying expectations in the case of the home unit. Possibly this was because he decided that the 10kW device was never likely to be safety certified, and the hot cat looked much more exciting.

      However it is also possible though that he came to an arrangement with the people he has occasionally referred to, who have tried bribery and trick loan offers, and who may finally have decided simply to negotiate. The result of such negotiation could conceivably have been an agreement to halt all work on small units, and only to develop industrial scale boilers, that would be available exclusively to the existing energy providers. Rossi is a pragmatist, and may have decided that the only way he was going to get his devices onto the market would be by ‘playing ball’ to a limited extent in this way.

      • b4FreeEnergy

        I hope you’re wrong because that would mean once again everything is under control and effectively suppressed.

        We won’t pay less for our energy bills and all will stay the same! – This would be a big disappointment …

        • Omega Z


          There will always be TPTB. Only the Names & Faces will change.

          As for going Industrial, It’s the natural coarse if certification of the Home units can’t be obtained at this time. In time the home units will become available.

          This is probably the best approach anyway. The Home E-cat As amazing as it would be has some major obstacles to overcome. Basically their just a supped up hot water heater at this time. Other products need to be developed to make them truly useful & this will take some time to accomplish. Home Electrical production won’t be very cheap. New Tech advances will be needed.

          In the mean time, Industrial Systems will prevent a lot of other crap being shoved down our throats, Most of it very unappetizing & very expensive.

        • Peter_Roe

          “everything is under control” That is inevitable I’m afraid. The idea that small businesses and basement mechanics would be knocking out simple CF units to power their homes and cars was never a realistic scenario. And as Omega says, the ‘home e-cat’ as specified was really not that spectacular a proposition due to the low COP and other factors that gradually got introduced, such as the ‘specialist-only’ cartridge change and the monitoring uplink.

          As you suggest there is unlikely to be any reduction in the cost of grid power as it will be claimed that cost savings on fossil fuels are being used to pay for further CF upgrades of fossil fuel boilers. That probably will in fact be true for a few years, but of course the real reason will be (as ever) profits, plus an interim period in which arrangements for paying tax revenues to governments are worked out and put in place.

          The upside will be an end to new nuclear fission, a somewhat cleaner environment (but not much until electric ground transport and synthetic jet fuel become the norm), independence from external fossil fuel suppliers, and full sanction for mainstream science to properly investigate ‘LENR’ (they won’t be able to do much else when their electricity sockets are powered by cold fusion). Just possibly there may also be fewer US-instigated wars, despite the increased capability that CF will give to the military (especially the navy) as there will be less incentive to try to take control of countries that happen to have oil fields.

        • Peter_Roe

          …and of course an end to all the expensive idiocies driven by the ‘AGW’ scare, that Omega may have been referencing indirectly, including the ongoing and extremely sinister US attempts at ‘geo-engineering’ (aluminium and barium aerosol spraying – chemtrails) that seem to be taking place on a vast scale.

        • Robert Mockan

          “..everything is under control and effectively suppressed.”?

          I disagree. I would say everything is wildly out of control and suppression has failed horribly.

  • Sanjeev
  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    The cover up is apparent when honest scientists insist their names be redacted and scientists are afraid for their livelihood because they are curious. Shame on the scientific community for creating an atmosphere of fear. This situation is a result of financial blackmail, and I smell the subtle, but strong odor of oil and gas.

  • RedRyder

    I find this Web Site very refreshing
    Thank you for all the information.
    All should find this enlightening.
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    I will spread the word of this site.
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  • RedRyder

    The back and fourth and back again leads me to one thought.
    We are in a way back to the days of: “with all due respect”
    We can’t put a meter on it, so the public should not have it.

    I suspect the delay is created because of a lack of control, not the
    lack of control of the device and its output, the lack of control
    of the secret of operation.

    It is very possible “if not probable” the reaction is so easy to reproduce
    that many will build their own out of available parts.
    This will be a problem. Many will blow up their houses, cabins,
    cars, themselves and sometimes the neighbors if it turns out
    to be “Not Rocket Science” Steam can be an issue!

    Just might find yourself saying in the future:
    I’m taking the 3-D printer up to the cabin to print out a new boiler,
    I have a new design idea I want to try out, I give you a call before
    I start the reaction in case something goes “too hot”.

  • Andrew Macleod

    The funniest part of that article is maryyugo saying “for once I believe Rossi……”
    Loo too funny.

  • clovis

    Hi, everyone.
    I too don’t trust Mark Gibbs, because he talks out both sides of his mouth,and most assuredly not a greedy heartless neo com like forbs,
    He gibbs is probably a plant to weasel his way in and sabotage everything he can.
    But you know he won’t because the member ship of e-cat world is just to smart for his bull_hit.

    E cat,lenr needs no help to do anything from the likes of this greedy gang of thugs., lenr it here to stay, so i suggest everyone get on the right side of this issue, or loose face,
    I too have a bottle of bubbly on ice , for the celebration, any day now.
    It’s my firm belief that this coming year is going to be the most exciting times of our life, many good things are coming, nothing can stop it,–smile
    Just set back and enjoy the ride of your life.—clovis

    • hadamhiram

      Sheesh, yet another tinfoil-hat conspiracy post written like a haiku…

      What IS it with you guys? And we wonder why the scientific community won’t take LENR seriously…

      • clovis

        Just another well written , lame brain attempt to cut someone down, nice going,and i love my tin foil hat, it keeps the aliens
        from sucking my brain out and makes my grammer bad,—smile

        • jacob

          haha,nice reply

        • Adam Lepczak

          LoL at your reply…
          The Gibbs guy is a total idiot…The entire article is moronic and it shows total lack of good will re: Rossi. Everyone who follows recent LENR developments knows full well that Defkalion operates on stolen Rossi’s know-how. Therefore everything Defkalion does by default – validates Rossi. He could of acknowledge that but he chose not to.

        • NJT

          +1 for Clovis…

  • artefact
    • Well, I think Jed missed the point. Gibbs wrote (slightly edited): “The cold fusion phenomenon, while scientifically intriguing, amounts to nothing of practical interest if you can’t do something useful with it. Like muon catalyzed fusion: interesting, but not practically useful.”

      He didn’t say that CF wouldn’t have practical interest. He said that a phenomenon such as CF is of practical interest only if it can be put into use. It’s a tautological, trivially true sentence. Maybe Jed missed the word if.

      As usual, Jed’s long reply is, as such, technically good, no problem with that.

      • Robert Mockan

        In my opinion Jed fully got the point. Here is why.

        Polls on reader perceptions reveal if one does not posses a knowledge base to refute an implied suggestion, the tendency is to accept the suggestion as a statement of realized fact. It has to do with the way the brain is wired, and why people are susceptible to suggestion. By the way all people have this condition. A focus on semantic analysis is one of a few ways to resist it. (You did that in your comment). But many readers do not do that.

        Jed Rothwell applies technical accuracy in his writing, and does not attempt to persuade using the frailties of the mind. Accurate rendering of technical issues not only improves communications, but helps one resist the human response to implied suggestion.

        All good writers know how to persuade, and when to focus on the predominately left brain and right brain functionality to accomplish their goals of communicating and persuasion.

        When Rothwell exclaimed in his response to Gibbs “..that is preposterous..”, he was referring not just to the way Gibbs was writing, but to the implied suggestion of what Gibbs was writing. And as a writer, Gibbs is fully aware of what he was doing when he used the phraseology that he did.

        I have written articles for the analytically and technically inclined, and for those who respond more favorably with the affective attributes of the mind. I can play the game as well as the best. Gibbs was not even being neutral in his communication about LENR, but is well within the politically correct camp that has been putting the brakes on public awareness and acceptance of the reality. He is not a bad writer, and not a bad person. But he chose a path with the article he wrote that reveals, at the very least, he also did not put the effort into research that he should have.

        The time is long past to leave any doubt that LENR is real. It was real in 1989, it is real today. The delay in developing energy technology has been killing people. It continues to kill people. More delay kills more people. Gibbs needs to get fully on board.

        • Maybe yoy are right. On a different take, to continue the game of words: muon catalysis is interesting but not too useful(*) while CF is too useful to be interesting.

          (*)Some believe that myon catalysis might be useful as well. Peace with them.

        • ivan_cev

          I, I, I self exaltation is not unbiased

          • Robert Mockan

            Writing in first person (that is, use of “I”) is generally avoided because many believe it makes the writing seem biased.

            I… always give all consideration due the opinions of others.
            I… am not responsible for the perceptions of others.
            I… use the first person pronoun when appropriate.
            I… have no problem using first person, second person, or third person viewpoint.

    • Karl

      It is of course good that anything positive that review that Cold Fusion is for real is written in MSM.

      I think we can expect to gradually find an increasing number of similar articles as the last one by M. Gibbs as it can’t be ignored when development has reached far by independent R&D groups.

      It will not be possible to deny the phenomena when Rossi et al gradually verify that it is for real and is of extreme importance as future energy source.

      It is still sad that R&D CF/LENR virtually need to bypass obvious blocking by scientific community, the patent organisations followed by MSM with very few exceptions.

    • GreenWin

      At this point I think it safe to say that Gibbs is way out of his depth in this field. It is more complex than writing about i-phones and the latest Android OTA release. And he seems too lazy to do the work of a real journalist to uncover CF background and facts.

      • Barry

        M Gibbs-“nothing(CF)of practical interest if you can’t do something useful with it …” Someone should inform him there are some people working on it. If we all had MG’s mindset we’d still be sitting around a fire outside of a cave only without the fire.

        • GreenWin

          And probably FROZEN stiff. 🙂

  • georgehants

    Looks like our wonderful scientists feel confident enough in their scant Global Warming data to start artificially effecting the climate.
    I’m sure they are fully competent and never make mistakes, as we after their interference head into the next ice-age.
    From Phys-org
    Solar geoengineering can be tailored to reduce inequality or to manage specific risks, study suggests October 21, 2012
    Read more at:

  • Filip48

    Most of the time my replies are ‘streams of conciousness’, I also often write the oposite of what I believe to trigger reaction.
    I know I’m sometimes a pain in the a## 🙂
    I just hope my grand-children can grow up in a better world than my kids (7 and 10). It sounds stupid but I am preparing them for the singularity(but I don’t have a clue how, I keep them open minded, without indoctrinating them), which is likely going to happen within their lifetime.
    If the hotcat is true, ‘The Singularity is very near’
    I also do not believe in a grand conspiracy, I just think there’s a lot of chaos and stupidity(good is good, evil is chaos). I live in a small country in Europe, al our scientists live ‘around the corner, so to speak’, it seems that we have a lot more trust in them than the average citizen in the US compared to their own. Most of them are hard working motivated geniuses, they don’t even make big money. The modesty of our academics is a long standing ‘problem’.
    The average scientist is like the average citizen(they have morgages, wifes, bosses, mistresses, kids, healthproblems, …)

  • Fibber McGourlick

    The point is that an independently audited test has been done that proves Cold Fusion is real, and this result has been announced to the public in a prestigious magazine. This is a transformative advance. Surely the world will now take notice of the reality of CF. In the light of this momentus event, all the comments about movies and other side issues is idle chatter.

    • GreenWin

      The prestige of Forbes and its reporting on cold fusion is highly doubtful, Fib. Gibbs’ reporting has proved to be as flaky as a day old croissant – scientists have known CF is real since the P&F announcement.

      • Barry

        I smell oil.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex with thanks.
    “The Believers”, Cold Fusion Documentary wins The Gold Hugo Award for Best Documentary at the Chicago Film Festival.
    Esa Ruoho
    Sun, 21 Oct 2012
    from the site moviecitynews:
    “The *Gold Hugo *goes to *THE BELIEVERS* (USA). This tightly constructed
    cinematic argument with strong characters puts a human face on scientific
    research and discovery acknowledging our universal understanding of human
    failings in our desire to achieve success. In *THE BELIEVERS,* the
    filmmakers remind us just how inexact science really is sometimes.
    Directors: Clayton Brown and Monica Long Ross.”
    http:[email protected]/msg72194.html

    • GreenWin

      Congrats to 137 Films and team in Chicago! FORWARD.

    • In-exactly.

    • artefact

      What do they mean? :
      In *THE BELIEVERS,* the
      filmmakers remind us just how inexact science really is sometimes.

      That sentence could mean that P&F were wrong or that the opposition was wrong.

      • atanguy

        The way I understand it, is that the “main stream science” represenred by the scientific oligarchy can be wrong. This message is important especially for the scientific communauty,science journalists inclus and the public.
        Another important point on F&P’s desaster is that “Suddenly lawyers and patent attorneys were part of the public relations equation” This is a lesson to learn in my opinion for the present situation.Fortunately we have internet that F&P did not have and that should hopefully makes a difference

  • GreenWin

    Mr. Gibbs’ tepid tale is another glimpse at the mainstream’s attempt to rewrite history as they wish it to be. Read Gibbs’ earlier CF stories – filled with references to “Believers” who fret that cold fusion was suppressed by “The Man.” Transparent attempts to paint CF advocates as foil hatters. Mr. Gibbs, had you a REAL journalist bone in your body you would include the following in anything you write about CF:

    “Schwinger was the 1965 Noble Prize recipient in physics, and arguably one of the leading theoretical physicists of the 20th Century. His 8 cold fusion papers about theory to explain it in 1989 were rejected by the American Physical Society, and he resigned in protest. It was the first time ANY of his papers had ever been rejected. He had this to say:

    ‘The pressure for conformity is enormous. I have experienced it in editors’ rejection of submitted papers, based on venomous criticism of anonymous referees. The replacement of impartial reviewing by censorship will be the death of science.’

    (His theory papers were not published until years later, and today are the basis for the leading theories about how cold fusion works).

    Norman Ramsey received the 1989 Noble Prize in Physics. He was co-chairman of the ERAB panel evaluating cold fusion for funding in 1989. He had to threaten to resign from the position if the other panel members followed through with an agenda to cut all future cold fusion research. They finally made a small concession for very slight federal funding, but without significant effect because the funds went to hot fusion research centers.” Robert Mockan 9/21/2012

    Not to mention Nobel laureate and Italian ENEA President Carlo Rubia’s now famous “Report 41” on the confirmation of He4 in Cold Fusion experiments – refused publication in 41 “science” journals. Or Nobel oaureate Brian Josephson who has argued for twenty years that mainstream science should not dismiss CF outright.

    Gibbs’ “reporting” is lame compared to real journalists like Jack Anderson or Woodward and Bernstein. A real reporter would see the obvious malodorous attempts at suppression of CF and write a Pulitzer Prize winning story.

    • I think you’re being very unfair to Mark Gibbs. He seems to be a careful, thoughtful writer who takes quite a bit of risk in pulling for cold fusion in a business environment that is tremendously skeptical. We’re lucky someone like Mark Gibbs is out there. I’m sure it hasn’t been an easy slog with his editors, who are very, very conservative people – likr their publisher, Steve Forbes.

      • Peter_Roe

        I don’t think GreenWin is being in the least bit unfair. Here are a few quotes from earlier Gibbs articles in Forbes:

        “From the way they argue I’d guess that many of the Believers probably also wear tin-foil hats. Some of the messages I’ve received from people who appear to be in this group are astounding not just for their lack of basic grammar but for their inability to express coherent thought.”

        “…the Believers are erring in a completely opposite way. Despite a lack of solid evidence and based on the slim, unverifiable test data from the E-Cat trials revealed to date, they still just believe. They post in blogs, in forums, and on Web sites long and often impassioned arguments based on their interpretations of physics, quantum mechanics, chemistry, string theory, numerology, and maybe even the divination of goat entrails.”

        “The best explanation of why the E-Cat can’t work can be found in a terrific blog posting titled “The Physics of why the e-Cat’s Cold Fusion Claims Collapse” by Ethan Siegel, a theoretical astrophysicist.”

        “National Instruments and Cold Fusion? (Update: Disproved)” Headline, Nov 11

        “A profile such as the E-Cat’s that makes it appear the device is made from Unobtainium and that such a thing has been hyped for the last year or so warrants serious attention.”

        However, if he is open to new information I suppose that offsets his earlier virulence to a certain extent. I think an apology for some of the comments above would not go amiss though.

        • GreenWin

          Thanks Peter. You found more Gibbsian dismissive material than I. I see no reason to tolerate this kind of backhanded attack on CF advocates, be it from a conservative rag or underground newsletter. The facts are this area of science is now and has been denigrated by the mainstream orthodoxy. And I will continue to demand balance in “reporting” on CF that refuses to acknowledge the history of its suppression.

          THIS is IMO, the only way to cleanse the stench of corruption pervasive in mainstream attitude toward LENR. If “journalists” like Gibbs quit writing about CF – fine. We have lost very little. If they want to step up to be a real, objective journalist and report the sordid history of CF – they will ride a wave of protective power to the truth. I am highly skeptical that Gibbs or Forbes have the cajones to do so.

      • GreenWin

        Joe, this merely reinforces the fact there are no real mainstream journalists covering this story. And there have been none since Rossi’s October 28th 1MW demo was accepted in Bologna. If Mark has to depict CF advocates as fanatics to get published – we don’t need Forbes.

      • Barry

        You’re joking, right?

  • georgehants

    Paul at ECN is trying to work through the dilemma of fair optimism versus damaging irrational scepticism.
    Much respect to him.
    E-Cat World I think found a fair balance a long time ago.
    Defkalion And A Jumble Of Thoughts
    When you strip away the juvenile dummy (pacifier) spitting, eCatNews comments lend an insight to the psychology of belief and ultra scepticism. This was not my intention when I set it up but it’s there for researchers nevertheless.

    • georgehants

      Anybody who knows the equation S=k ln W should know that the gentleman concerned committed suicide due to the pressure of colleagues and establishment debunking and denying his work.
      A short time after his death he was fully vindicated.

      • Peter_Roe

        Professional self-interest and protectionism, particularly when expressed as intellectual violence, is never without consequences for others. Boltzmann wasn’t the first to suffer and will not be the last, unfortunately.

        • georgehants

          Well done Peter, your the only one that solved the crossword clue. 🙂

          • Peter_Roe

            Is there a prize?

  • georgehants

    From Engineering at Illinoi
    Illinois Group’s Fusion Reactor Innovation Experiment Proves Successful in China
    By EAI on October 17, 2012 in Uncategorized
    Scientists meeting from around the world in a fusion energy conference last week proclaimed the recent success of a University of Illinois-led innovation for fusion reactors.
    David Ruzic, professor of nuclear, plasma, and radiological engineering at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, presented results on “Lithium-Metal Infused Trenches: A New Way to Remove Diverter Heat Flux,” at the 24th International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Fusion Energy Conference held in San Diego, California. Ruzic’s paper reflected success from an experiment conducted on October 11, 2012 on an HT-7 Tokamak (experimental superconducting nuclear fusion) reactor in Hefei, China.

    • Peter_Roe

      “The success in China is the culmination of a decade of work aimed at making fusion reactors more economical.”

      You gotta laugh haven’t you. Or cry.

      I guess that article translates as ‘Please please don’t take our grants away. Were nearly there, honest!’

  • Lemuel

    Obama needs a Rossi…
    “estimated spending on television ads promoting coal and more oil and gas drilling or criticizing clean energy has exceeded $153 million this year, according to an analysis by The New York Times…..”

    “As Mr. Obama seeks re-election, that world is a distant memory. Some of the mightiest players in the oil, gas and coal industries are financing an aggressive effort to defeat him, or at least press him to adopt policies that are friendlier to fossil fuels. And the president’s former allies in promoting wind and solar power and caps on greenhouse gases? They are disenchanted and sitting on their wallets.

    “When Barack Obama first ran for president, being green was so popular that oil companies like Chevron were boasting about their commitment to renewable energy, …..
    This year’s campaign on behalf of fossil fuels includes a surge in political contributions to Mitt Romney, attack ads questioning Mr. Obama’s clean-energy agenda,……
    ReadMore ..

  • ivan_cev

    I see DGT and Rossi technology different, Rossi is compact uses some catalyst DGT is more complex, both start in piantelli’s ideas, the only think in common is the use of Hydrogen and nickel, DGT may have copied bruillion ideas, as the tech seem somewhat similar. but if DGT has seen and tested the e-cat, this could have inspired their research.
    So yes DGT adds credibility to Rossi. (Does not validate, but makes it more likely to be real)

  • Alan DeAngelis

    In a way, Rossi did run control experiments early on with the E-Cat. Rossi saw reactions with hydrogen but not with deuterium. This would rule out a chemical reaction [The experiments done with deuterium (chemically similar to hydrogen) could be thought of as controls].

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Deuterium is not very suitable. On Ni-H experiments it’s known to usually not react with the lattice, but sometimes it does. In Celani’s reactor for example, with Deuterium at first his cell showed an endothermic behavior, but it later began exothermic. Also, with it, Celani detected weak gamma rays, never detected before with Hydrogen.

      Helium or noble gases such as Argon are better for a control experiment.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, D2 can be a control as it is same as H2 chemically.
      But its not a recommended control because some researchers have shown LENR effects using D2 also.

      You need a really neutral control and the energy output in presence of a chemically inactive gas is a solid indication of no chemical reactions.

      • Alan DeAngelis

        Yes good points Ivan and Sanjeev. I know it isn’t a good control (even the heats of adsorption maybe slightly different) and Rossi wasn’t thinking of it as a control but he saw what seemed to him to be a significant difference between the two in his system (and we really don’t know what his secret is) which lead him to believe that it’s more than a chemical reaction and the electrical resistor. Even if some sort of a nuclear reaction can take place with deuterium the fact that there are huge differences between deuterium and hydrogen tells us something unusual is taking place in the E-Cat.

  • Blanco69

    I love your logic Filip. I have long thought the same thing. It cannot be possible for DGT to have something AND Rossi to have nothing. If even the slightest COP >1 claim is validated out of Athens then it becomes a relatively small step to come to terms with a hot cat reality. And when the hot cat is validated? Well, then we can then enjoy the ride as humanity moves on to the next era. For this reason I am also in a good mood. I might even do a Georgehants and stick something fine, French and bubbly into the refrigerator.

    • daniel maris

      I have always said that either both Rossi and DGT are genuine or neither are. To believe otherwise (that one is and one isn’t) is to indulge in some pretty complex conspiracy theorising.

      It’s looking more now like they are both genuine.

    • Carlos

      Not only that. I would say that if Celani’s experiment works as he says, then there are a lot of posibilities that Rossi also has something. Celani gives a lot of credence to the e-cat, because he uses the same principles, similar active materials, and claims similar (but somewhat lower) power densities per mass of the active material.

  • Filip48

    I can remember Rossi(end 2011) stateting that Defkalion has nothing.
    If Defkalion has something, Rossi has something too.
    Until now we believe if Rossi has something it doesn’t mean Dafkalion has something too. But if Defkalion has something, we can be sure Rossi has something better. I’m in a good mood.
    The big question is: what’s the COP.
    How is the COP interpreted by the different parties?
    If COP >1, one can speak of infinite COP, reactors can be linked.

    • Voodoo

      No, when input is 500 Watts electric and output is 550 Watts thermal, You cannot link reactors.

      • Filip48

        It depends on how much thermal Watts you get out of 500 Watts electric, if there’s more heat coming out than heat going in?
        That’s what i mean by interpretating of COP.

        • buffalo

          yes defkalion,s demo was not geared to raise a huge was just to show third parties that it is real nd useful.and indeed it appears to be so.

        • Richard Hill

          there are several conventional heat pump/inverter technologies that can get 1500 thermal Watts from 500 Watts electric.

          • Ivan Mohorovicic

            There are even more efficient heat pumps than that, but remember that a heat pump does not generate heat, but rather it moves heat from a place to another, and for this movement to happen there has to be a temperature gradient somewhere. This means that with a heat pump you can’t obtain useful high temperature heat for energy generation or anyway anything more than space heating.

            • buffalo

              if the ecat is a heatpump then its an exceptional violation of thermodynamics laws BECAUSE thers no cooling in any one part of it,just input heat jumping up in concentration

          • Gigi Danz

            I don’t think so. Could you provide any example?

            • MikkaMakka

              “I don’t think so.” Not a strong counter argument.

          • Sanjeev

            Heat pump is not an energy generator, it consumes energy.

            To learn more on the basics of COP regarding heat pumps as opposed to that of generators head on to wiki.

    • Blanco69

      I love your logic Filip. I have long thought the same thing. It cannot be possible for DGT to have something AND Rossi to have nothing. If even the slightest COP >1 claim is validated out of Athens then it becomes a relatively small step to come to terms with a hot cat reality. And when the hot cat is validated then we can then enjoy the ride as humanity moves on to the next era. For this reason I am also in a good mood. I might even do a Georgehants and stick something fine, French and bubbly into the refrigerator.

    • Sanjeev

      I agree with you Filip. I was going to say that but you said it better.

    • Lu

      It’s clear to me that Defkalion and Rossi have something. By something I mean they have uncovered/replicated a new fuel based on the LENR effect (or something similar).

      It’s also clear to me that they are trying to bring this new fuel to the market and make a buck. This is where the mystery and unfortunately deception lies. Celani and others like him are perhaps the exception here.

      We can only hope that Defkalion and Rossi’s avarice, or those that are more interested in the science and its benefits to man, will be successful.

      • Ged

        I don’t think it’s avarice. Remember, cold fusion got banned from the scientific world despite several successful replications. So where can one turn? Both group are playing by the rules of the only avenue they have left, the business world.

        • ivan_cev

          Could you please list the replications?
          I think is important to be clear in this point.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            There has been a cold fusion reactor running at MIT for a year!

            • ivan_cev

              Yes, but… who has replicate it?

        • Lu

          Toyota spent something like $24million on F&P after they announced their discovery. I wouldn’t call this exactly banned.

          Rossi and Defkalion have both mislead the public about their status and intentions. Greed makes the most sense to me. Note I’m not trying to judge this.