Video Introducing the Hunt Utilities Group, Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project Partners.

Here is a new video from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project introducing the Hunt Utilities Group, a non profit engineering organization based in Pine River, Minnesota, who have become involved in designing and building working models of the Francesco Celani cold fusion reactors that the MFMP will use to replicate Celani’s demonstration.

The MFMP is committed to demonstrating to the world that cold fusion is a practical energy source that can be used to help solve many of the world’s energy related problems. This video shows that they have been fortunate in being able to partner with what appears to be a very competent team with the expertise and resources to build the devices needed to demonstrate the New Fire.

It is clear from this video that the MFMP is engaged in a very serious effort. I know that substantial funds have already been committed to this project, and in the future more will be needed to bring this work to fruition. I will share more information about how people can help in the effort as I am made aware of it.

  • For the comments below about LENR being used for space propulsion below, see this article. It seem like LENR could generate the electricity required for the propulsion instead of fission or hot fusion as suggested in the article.

    Now how do you use LENR to get stuff into orbit – some kind of space plane? Boeing/NASA are working on something along these lines using LENR, although that is just for low orbit.

    • Peter_Roe

      A giant railgun perhaps?:

    • Peter_Roe

      Possibly not manned though!

    • Omega Z


      In the Early 70’s NASA had a rough plan for a rail launcher.
      12 Miles long to go up along a mountain side. 24 to 36 inch diameter tubes load with raw material for space assembly at 7 cents a pound. Possibly a larger 24 mile long rail which could launch astronauts. The Longer rail was to reduce G forces for the astronauts. Estimated cost at that time was 12 billion to build.

      The Original Space Shuttle was much less complicated before the politicians got involved. Each wanting to add capabilities which translated to jobs in their home districts. Also much more complex & dangerous. Original was meant only to be a work horse. Not a Lab & only a maximum 3 to 4 man crew. Approximately a 14 by 70 foot cargo hold. Catastrophe rate was much lower then what we ended up with. Possibly with an escape pod & larger lift capability. At half the cost.

      There was also a mini shuttle designed that would have launched from a modified 747 with a 4 man crew. Cheap enough to launch 1 everyday had they followed through. At max altitude & speed, the 747 would start to nose over & the mini shuttle would launch with it’s own mini boosters & a liquid rocket engine.

      So had the Politicians stayed out of it, You would have had a work horse to haul large structures for a large space station. Tube launcher material/crew at cents per pound. Machines to build structures from raw material. Mini shuttle for daily trips as necessary & emergency rescues only a couple hours away.

      Additional Fuel & supplies could be launched without burning fuel to get it there. Mini space trucks for retrieval & repair crew work docked at space station Always.

      Had they went that way, it’s probable that we would already have a permanent space station, moon base & have already been preparing a Mars base. The cost reductions would no doubt would have lead to Private mini factories & private space expansion well underway. Decades ahead of where we are now.

      Note that the Mini Shuttle the air force is using & the 1 that one of the private companies are working with were based on NASA’s mini shuttle plan.

      Yeah… NASA was much more innovative & Imaginative back then. Another technology suppressed.

      • Peter_Roe

        Omega, I remember the 747-launched shuttle idea. It seemed to be an obvious system, and I never did understand why it didn’t become the mainstay of space entry. Political interference explains it of course.

        The EM rail gun on a mountainside is an amazing concept and the fact that the idea made it beyond the pages of the ‘Eagle’ (UK boy’s magazine of the ’50s that used to feature imaginative concepts like that) is surprising in itself. Jules Verne style ‘Steam punk’ at its finest!

        Lost opportunities, especially when they have been lost due to petty self interest, are always depressing. Now that the shuttle has been ‘retired’ maybe these ideas will get a second look sometime, even if its Virgin Airways doing it, rather than NASA!

        • Omega Z

          Yeah- The Rail is kind of expensive at start up, but I believe the private sector would have carried from there given a little time. Kind of sad. Lost opportunities.

  • JamesThomas

    I hope anyone who sees how important this replication is to the world, will go to the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project website and donate something, anything.

    Members of the team have committed time and cash amounting to in excess of $100,000. They can really use our help.

    Please do what you can; and spread the word.

    Thank you,


    • Iggy Dalrymple

      I tried to donate but as usual paypal screwed me up. I tried to register
      at quantumheat and it said I was blocked. I guess they don’t want me or my money. I also tried to donate to Russ Gries to no avail.

      I have no trouble donating to politicians.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Finally got registered.
        Told them I’d donate when they can take a credit card of a check. My 73 yr old eyes can’t handle the black background.

  • buffalo

    yes indeed robert mockan,sorry my cel fone shoots replys to the top of thread.the spillover effect was especially put under spotlight by one brian ahern who soon afterward noticed the nanomagnetic effects it has on catalyst first hand it seems to rub up against the 2nd law thermodynamics due to the fact that we have fast continuous cyclic flow of H2 gas between a nickel cluster island and copper cluster island(constintan)both at same temperature up against heating element.

  • Off-topic Without going into its other aspects, just one comment: with CF in existence, no one would build Dyson spheres or be otherwise dependent on stars for energy.

    • georgehants

      Pekka, what is worrying is that Cold Fusion could effect the solar sail effort.
      It is always a problem that an advance in one area can cause problems elsewhere.
      One can understand in a way why those involved may wish to delay such a threat.

      • I don’t know how CF could effect solar photon sail or solar wind electric sail effort(??)

        Space sails are devices for producing momentum (impulse) in space. Whereas CF is an energy source, a different thing. Energy can be obtained rather nicely from solar panels already now (except in the outer solar system of course; there CF would be very valuable). Solar panels work much better in space than on ground because there is no night and no clouds and instead always high equatorial noon.

        Given a CF electric power source in space, we can build E-sail probes that fly fast to outer solar system, once the tech is proven in space. CF benefits our technology, not vice versa.

        • georgehants

          Pekka, wonderful, I was concerned that your work would be affected.
          Good to hear that it is business as usual.

          • thank you for your consideration, but I’m just happy if someone invents a better tech than mine; at least I think I would be

            • Omega Z


              Hopefully TPTB are smart enough not to put all their eggs in 1 basket. You never know when 1 tech may be better suited then another in a specific situation.

              That’s exactly the reason I hope all the different LENR projects come to fruitation.

              Different tech for different necessities.

            • Peter_Roe

              Pekka – I remember once reading a science fiction story in which solar-wind sailing vessels (‘yachts’) are raced by sportsmen, even though much faster reactionless drives are the norm for interplanetary travel in this age. The image of a fleet of racing ships with their kilometres-wide ‘sails’ has stayed with me for many years. I wish I could remember the title, or who it was by. Nowhere near as sophisticated as your electric sail concept of course!

        • … and (before someone asks) why not use a CF-powered ion engine to solve all propulsion problems at once, the answer is the difficulty of cooling. Cooling is not easy in space because only thermal radiation is available (no convection, no conduction). A submarine reaction is a piece of cake to cool compared to a space reactor, because there is plenty of coolant everywhere (sea water). This dilemma concerns any heat source reactor in space, fission and CF included.

          • NJT

            Just wanted you to know that yours, Peter’s, Robert’s and the other fabulous talents I read herein are very much appreciated by myself. With such as yourselves and now what I see from the new “Hunt boys” have renewed my faith that at new beginning is very near for the human race.
            Thanks so much for your time and efforts here on this wonderful blog…

    • a clarification: when I wrote “no one would be dependent on stars for energy” I meant it in the context of the lnked Berkeley press release i.e. “no one among hypothetical Kardashev type 2 supercivilisations equivalent to billion earths or so”; sorry for possible confusion that arose from it

  • buffalo

    peter roe,pekka,whats u guys think about the hydrogen spillover thats goin on on the celani seems the higher the temperature the faster the spillover we have a direct translational relation of added heat to spillover speed.a type of particle accelleration perhaps?

    • well, interesting, but I’m not sure what you mean by hydrogen spillover?

    • Peter_Roe

      Sorry – me neither. I’ve found some references so I can educate myself.

    • Robert Mockan

      Fortunately there is an excellent article on the Internet discussing “spillover”, here:

      The observation of this dates back to the 60s. It is one of those subjects in catalysis research seldom heard outside the field. Several cold fusion researchers have commented about it over the years, like Bockris and Areta.

      I would say the effect is definitely helping provide an alternate pathway around the LENR activation energy, and most likely the reason Rossi, Celani, and Piantelli have been able to improve the LENR rate, thus power density (thermal power per unit mass of “catalyst”)in their experiments, is that the surfaces of their LENR catalysts, (and support surfaces), enhance spillover. As important as the actual transition elements, particle size, surface morphology, crystal structure, and so on, may be, it would seem likely “spillover” is also important in increasing reaction rate.

      In the link provided see especially pages 776 t0 781.

    • OK, now I glanced at Robert’s doc. In short, it seems to be: consider a surface S, normally unwilling to adsorb some gas G, but there existing another substance C (catalyst) that does it readily. If clumps of C are made to partially cover S, then G may adsorb first to C and then wander along the surface until reaching S, hence one ends up having G adsorbed on S with the help of C. Also the reverse reaction may exist (reverse spillover).

      It sounds that different variants of spillover might be among possible mechanisms that might be used to enhance getting atomic hydrogen to adsorb on a surface, IF that is the bottleneck in CF. But adsorption to the surface wouldn’t be enough in case CF would require absorption in the bulk.

      • Peter_Roe

        Celani seems to be using the copper content of the wire primarily as a sacrificial element that can be oxidised away to create ‘nuclear active environments’ on the nickel surface, in a way that is analogous to dissolving the aluminium out of ‘Raney nickel’. However he also thinks that residual copper exposed at the surface may be assisting catalytic dissociation of H2, so it may be acting like a ‘spillover’ promoter, although I’m afraid that I don’t get buffalo’s reference to ‘particle acceleration’ in this context.

        • Max S

          the opposite would happen. Nickel would oxidise before copper. If any oxidation would take place.

          • Peter_Roe

            From Celani’s paper, “Experimental results on sub-micro structure Cu-Ni alloys under high temperature Hydrogen-Deuterium interactions”, page 11:

            “f) The possibility, at least in principle, to produce nano-micro structures at the surface, or even deeper into the bulk, thanks to selective oxidation of Cu in such Alloy at high temperatures….”

            Sanjeev provides a link to the PDF elsewhere in this thread.

            • Max S

              thanks, I found it in the paper (pg 11) and o2 treatment pg 12.
              Celani reports “Cu evaporation”, pg.15, means experimentally he found less Cu than expected. I was confused by the explanation and had galvanic processses in mind. However, strange things are going on in Ni-Cu alloys :
              The understanding of this may be an important clue.

      • LCD

        Thanks guys been wondering about that myself.

  • Guys,

    This is an awesome video. I think what is being created in the voids is hot dark matter (neutrinos) which liberate heat and trigger Beta Decays. The trick will be keeping the wires from breaking.

    I think I have also discovered their big brother, cold dark matter (weakly interacting massive particles – WIMPS) orbiting earth. You might want to spend 15 minutes reading since it has a direct impact on our lives.

    • clovis

      Hi, ChemE
      My thoughts exactly, and have mentioned it a few times,
      When they were testing for the different kinds of rays that were emitted by using this very expensive, black paint, neutrinos were observer. although they they were believed to have originated from cosmic radiation,
      But like you i think they may have originated from the cat.

      • When neutrinos collide with hydrogen they create triple tracks and beta decay. See Wikepedia for Neutrino. Only problem is they can pass right through matter and trigger ionizing radiation outside the reactor and cause embrittlement. We are getting hit with them everyday from solar wind.

        Take Melatonin it protects you. If i told you who/wtold me that you would not believe me…
        It’s a new world guys.


  • georgehants

    Science News
    … from universities, journals, and other research organizations
    Save Email Print Share
    Paving the Way for Commercial Fusion Power Plants
    ScienceDaily (Oct. 8, 2012) — Latest results from the Joint European Torus (JET) fusion device are giving researchers increasing confidence in prospects for the next-generation ITER project, the international experiment that is expected to pave the way for commercial fusion power plants. Operation with a new lining inside JET has demonstrated the suitability of materials for the much larger and more powerful ITER device.

    • Peter_Roe

      Really, honestly, we’re nearly there. Sort of. In fact we’re so nearly there we even want to sap your taxpayers for another generation so we can build an even bigger white elephant. It’ll be very big and shiny and awesomely expensive, and will go ‘pop’ with a huge flash every now and then. Please, please don’t cut off our funding. We’ve got wives and children you know, and we’ve been a bit poorly lately, cough cough…

    • vbasic

      The ITER people are hilarious. I know that there’s a satire based on “Waiting for Godot” regarding Rossi’s ecat. But it applies more to ‘controlled’ LOL hot fusion.
      The other difference is that Rossi’s work hasn’t cost any taxpayers anything. While the ITER and related work, billions and billions. How embarrassed will they be when some LENR group comes out with a small, inexpensive product that does the same as the Tokamak groups spent generations trying to achieve? Plus, without high velocity xrays and neutrons, instead thermalized gamma and ultra low momentum or virtual neutrons within supernova created metals.

  • Good for the Hunt Utilities Group. They are not only committed to a sustainable futures effort, but environment education as well. And as a Minnesotan, I’m very proud of these guys. Well done!

    • Voodoo

      Hello Gregory,

      when will some anti-gravity or N3 breaker announcement from your (wider) camp?

    • clovis

      Hey, Greg,
      I agree, and love your new book, gravity 2.0
      Can’t seem to get enough, great read, so easy to understand,
      Gravity mod is very interesting, not a dull read at all.
      and so much to learn.

  • Sanjeev
  • georgehants

    Brought up from below as no space.
    Max s you said —-
    Max S on October 8, 2012 at 12:04 pm
    George, The separation of “common sense” and economics is itself pointless. You have yourself explained with “cost” argument. What is the purpose of a cost if not for economics ?
    I have made the point that if the unemployed where employed to produce and fit solar cells to every roof the cost is negligible and the result would be energy independence in say 5/10 years, that would mean that thousands of workers in the Oil, Coal, Nuclear industry’s could be removed.
    Every time people are removed from pointless work, if averaged then everyone has their working life reduced by that amount.
    Can you see that only the number of people necessary to maintain the present standard of living are needed to work at any given time.
    If all financial workers and people in made up pointless occupations are freed then the whole populations work time is reduced pro-rata.
    Democracy of the people then chooses what work is important enough to spend time on.
    Maybe people would think that Cold Fusion is worthwhile and by working to bring it to fruition many more would be happily put out of work.
    I am saying change the bloody system and stop trying to make things fit into crazy capitalist economics.

    • Patrik

      Well, your just wrong, sorry. It just isnt that simple.

      • georgehants

        Patrik, please don’t be sorry, if you don’t mind I will not except your apparently divine given proclamation.
        You now have the chance to explain your objections.
        I look forward to a well thought out comment.
        Thank you.

      • Charles

        Patrik, (or is it Patrick: your is a possessive pronoun used as an adjective, meaning e.g. your car, your phone, etc. What your of geogehants’ is missing from your sentence?

        Perhaps you meant you’re, a contraction of ‘you are’ which drops the a (dropping the a sound is called an elision) and replaces it with an apostrophe (‘) Like the one missing from your word isnt (isn’t).

        Oh, incidentally, geogehants actually means he will not accept (except) you’re (oops) divine given proclamation. I too await your proclamation. georgehants should stick to science and skip the economic philosophies, about which he appears to know very little but is certain of a lot.

        This English lesson from a wise @ss is over.

        • georgehants

          Charles, thank you, another rambling comment.
          I read it to say there is a fault in my logic.
          Your apparent “divine proclamation” that I “appears to know very little” now merits you putting your English to the test and explaining your proclamation.
          Given a reasonable objection to my hypotheses I will gladly try and defend it.

    • zvibenyosef

      I completely agree with everything you say, however I doubt that the people in control, will allow their dominance to be challenged. They have and will use all means at their disposal to keep us under their thumbs, and prevent a logical egalitarian society. This is the reason Pons Fleischmann Effect has languished for over 23 years. Watch this video by George Carlin, he breaks it down for us. Its called “The American Dream” because you have to be asleep to believe it.

  • georgehants

    May I just point out to some people that if you where born in China you would think like a China-man if you where born under Hitler there is a reasonable chance you would have joined the Hitler youth.
    No matter what era or philosophy is dominant at any any given age or location, one has to divorce oneself from the Dogma and excepted philosophy of the time and think as an individual.
    Each of us has the Power to determine how things should be and not ever follow.
    One cannot blame Hitler for the sins of the Third Reich but the people who followed.

    • Charles

      george, please go off and learn the difference between except and accept. “excepted philosophy”????

      • georgehants

        Charles, are these childish remarks the limit of your commenting abilities.
        Please try harder to put up something more interesting and worthwhile.

    • Filip47


  • georgehants

    Experiment with polycristalline foil.
    (—Catalytic converters work poorly if they have not yet warmed up. Tiny metal particles in a catalytic converter require a minimum temperature to function efficiently. At the Vienna University of Technology, thanks to a new measuring method, it has now become possible to examine many different types of these particles at the same time. Reliable information regarding what it is exactly that the efficiency of catalytic converters depends on has thus been obtained for the first time.
    Read more at:

  • buffalo

    sorry george.its just my gut instinct that ranting at the dogmatics is going to make them close up like a clam and spur them to rob us more.what we want is to suggest to them an alternative that both they and ‘us’ can benefit from.let us approach with lurve.just my opinion

  • buffalo

    robert mockan.what role do u think hydrogen overspill is playing in the celani device? It must be cyclic at those temperatures and extremely fast.very negentropic if u ask me

  • OT: There is a little known site which will likely remain so:
    “Update 2012-10-03 – Progress with our LANR replication project has been very slow and the board have decided to halt work on the project indefinitely.”

    • Robert Mockan

      Probably a wise decision. The proper approach is to first obtain equipment (buy or build it) to measure the characteristics of the potential nuclear active surface or particles, such as surface morphology, crystal structure, surface area, and so on. Without that one does not know what is happening when trying to modify a surface or particle to be nuclear active. The second step is to have a calorimeter to test for heat effect, with temperature control of the cell during vacuum purging and gas filling with hydrogen. This piece of equipment is also essential, otherwise one can not know if a potential nuclear active LENR catalyst is working or not. One must be able to measure the heat effect with test samples before making larger amounts for a reactor. The simplest part of the whole process is modifying surfaces or making properly sized nano-particles, but only when one knows how to do it. Without specific instructions on how, one must have the measuring equipment. These people trying to make active LENR catalyst need to focus their efforts on the measuring equipment. Once they have that, the rest will follow, and they will be successful.

    • Peter_Roe

      I imagine that lack of funds will have played no small part in this decision. Clearly thousands of dollars are needed even to play on the bottom rungs of this ladder, and tens of thousands to go further, as Hunt Utilities Group are doing. It to their enormous credit that they are being so open with their results, and I hope that all concerned are rewarded by subsequent developments, once the replication is complete.

    • Some further info: if I remember correctly, came online about 10 months ago and I have the impression that it’s Swedish.

      Older CF systems are probably harder to replicate because information is scarce. I’m somewhat surprised, however, that they decided to stop now instead of retargeting their effort towards replicating Celani or Abundo because the latter are meant for replication.

  • Roger Bird

    See, I don’t need to believe in Rossi to know that this is real and is going to happen.

    • GreenWin

      Roger, and all who follow this drama… You and others would know nothing of LENR but faded hearsay were it not for the “eccentric” Ing Rossi. Only the quick and dead dismiss the creators of change.

  • GreenWin

    I like that the data acquisition/power supply Model # is titled “Celani-1.” Nice to see those who have worked in the shadow of mainstream, receiving long overdue credit.

  • buffalo

    mm george. conjures up images of millions of peasants dying of starvation in stalinist russia

  • clovis

    Your group is doing great,and honorable work.
    I too love to see young people working along side our older scientist.
    And George,, what we need most is to put our young scientist that show interest, in on big projects, to learn the things first hand, instead of YEARS of meaningless jobs of cleaning up the lab floors and the like,
    put them on important projects, i say.

    • Peter_Roe

      In a small concern like HUG usually everyone gets to take a turn cleaning labs and making coffee, as well as doing the fun stuff! From my experience working in such places, as a working environment it is about as good as it gets.

    • georgehants

      clovis, if only our young scientists were set free to use their amazing zest and abilities to research topics that they find interesting and worthwhile.
      As you must be aware, unless they are lucky enough to come under the influence of an open-minded searching tutor or mentor, (very rare) then they will be ground down to a pointless Dogma follower by lack of funding, peer pressure and need to pay the mortgage.
      Big projects consist of sending a toy truck just slightly more sophisticated than can be brought at Toys are US for 20 dollars, to Mars which has taken 45 years, when in the 60’s NASA and a few Germans developed the Saturn 5 and flew men to the Moon in just 10 years.
      Spending billions on a LHC etc. that although very good science is something that should only be done with money left over after researching subjects such as Cold Fusion etc to benefit the World.
      Hot Fusion, billions spent just to keep thousands of scientists, as with the LHC above, in money, reputations and prestigious positions, not because of results or breakthroughs but based on, if this science costs billions then the scientists must be important.
      The most important science ever to come out of CERN was John Bell’s inequality, but almost no “scientist” has heard of it or remotely understands it’s meaning.
      Yes, the young are our Future but science with most things generally, squanders and destroys that resource, just to keep the present priests in positions of power and self-indulgent expert opinion such as, you have no need to follow Evidence or do Research because we can tell you that Cold Fusion does not exist and any scientist who says it does, we will destroy.

  • Tom775257

    A question. Has there been any discussion of the energy 1) required to make the Constantan wire suitable for LENR 2) Whilst the wire loads with hydrogen, is this an endothermic reaction? If so is the total energy output over the life of the wire greater than the energy used / possibly absorbed in the preparation yet?

    • Martin

      This is clearly an interesting question, but not in an experimental environment. The very first lightbulb hardly gave as much light as the materials having been burnt right away.

    • Yes, the hydrogen loading is endothermic. However any chemical energy stored by a substance cannot (or shouldn’t) exceed about 4 electronvolts per atom. At its reported anomalous power output of 20 W, Celani’s wire exceeds the 4 eV/atom chemical limit within minutes.

      • Tom775257

        Agree with the comment about early days. Pekka, that is great to know; therefore there can be no question about the validity of the excess heat.

      • buffalo

        no its not.chemisorbtion is exothermic for nickel-H2.however i think they load to completion before putting heat in

      • Peter_Roe

        According to Akiya Matsuda, hydrogen absorption by nickel is exothermic below 250C and endothermic above this temperature at 1 atmosphere. Matsuda draws a distinction between diffusion and ‘chemisorption’ (formation of hydride), and pressure affects the exact point of transition. I don’t think we know the conditions under which Celani loads his wire, but as Pekka says, the energy output seems to be way above any amount of energy that could be chemically stored in the wire, so it’s probably relatively unimportant from this POV.

    • Sanjeev

      A good question. Whatever it is endo or exo, it should be taken in account by carefully measuring the heat balance during loading and unloading.

      I don’t know how rigorous the guys at HUG are, but if they can show excess heat by a big margin of calculated values, it will be good enough for the start.

      • Peter_Roe

        Unfortunately, Celani’s exact wire preparation and loading procedure has not been published AFAIK. However the longer ‘hot wire’ experiments are allowed to run, the more insignificant this factor will be in any energy balance calculations.

        • Sanjeev

          This presentation has some detail on preparation of the wire.

          • Peter_Roe

            Superficially, it appears so, but actually there is probably insufficient information given to replicate the actual method he uses, even with some guesswork. Even HUG are having to have the wire prepared for them by Celani. Perhaps there is more specific data in the patent.

            I’ve been through the PDF and extracted what seems to me to be salient below (with comments):

            …. selective oxidation of Cu in (the wire) at high temperatures (650-1050C). Both segregation of Ni among (mixed copper oxides) and cooling rate are key aspects of the preparation… The range (650-1050C) is very wide.

            The wires … were ‘cleaned up’ of the original plastic insulation layer…. by Joule heating in air, at current as large as 2000mA, time 5m. This at least is specific, but further on it is clear that this is only a starting point:

            …increasing both the current (ip to 2500-3000mA) and the time at high power (5-1000s), decreasing the cooling speed (from 100 down to <1s) had dramatic effects on the growing of nano-microstructures… Large ranges for both current and especially time make replication impossible.

            (Caption) SEM. I=2800mA. Extra treatments with HNO3 at 65%, 500s. Strong reduction of Cu. Nitric acid is not mentioned in text, so it can only an assumption that this treatment follows the oxidation treatment (and temperature is not specified).

            Just after the first H2 intake at 8 Atm, starting from 75C cell temperature…. etc. At least this part is relatively clear, so I agree that this part of the procedure at least is replicable.

        • there is a patent about his procedure…
          Because it is accepted, the procedure should be reproducible. Otherwise his patent protect nothing…

    • Ged

      1) It seems that what’s required is stripping off the insulator, “burning” the wire at high temperature with a high current through it (650-1000 C) to get rid of insulator/organic residue, and then a longer and cooler burn in air to oxidize the copper surface and create nanofissues in the material.

      2) As the others have mentioned, hydrogen loading is actually exothermic. This is part of why hydrogen can make metals brittle, as it’s energy favorable for hydrogen to impregnate through a metal. This actually gets less so at higher temperature.

      But the really interesting thing to notice is the resistance of the isotran wire goes down when it is replete with hydrogen by a significant amount. This means the wire is less able to generate heat in response to a current than before. And yet, heat production in a hydrogen atmosphere goes way up, far beyond what it is when the same wire is subjected to the same current under an argon atmosphere.

      That’s really where the meat in this lays, and hopefully they will do those two run/atmosphere conditions thoroughly.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    They must be having a ball. Good science is always fun.

    I’m sure they’ve thought of this but although it’s at a low pressure it might be a good idea to have a pressure relief valve that would blow before the quartz cylinder would.

  • georgehants

    My goodness, are they talking about teaching children the Truth instead of making out only “clever” scientists with a degree in how to light a bunson burner can understand it.
    Maybe it is time for five year old children to learn the World is Quantum not just classical nuts and bolts, steam engine, reductionist Dogma.
    It is every persons birthright to know that a Wonderful reality exists behind the deadpan everyday reality that people are tricked into believing is their existence.

    Wired Magazine
    New Book Explains Albert Einstein and Relativity for Kids
    Do kids really need to know about relativity? After all, most fourth graders are not going to have to explain the bending of space or the photoelectric test on their standardized tests.
    And isn’t there all kinds of fancy math involved?
    The fact is, we wouldn’t have cell phones or GPS without an understanding of relativity. Albert Einstein, the discoverer of the theory, is still the top choice in surveys of the most famous living scientist (even though he died in 1955). And E=mc2 is probably the best known scientific equation — even though most people probably don’t understand what it means. Einstein’s work led to the atom bomb, which has shaped history since World War II. In other words, not knowing about Einstein and relativity at an early age means not understanding the basis of modern science, technology, and the world at large.

    • GreenWin


      I would suggest that while these foundations are important for kids to learn, it is also important that they be subject to imminent adaptation. For example when learning relativity, students should also learn of Einstein’s refusal to accept great portions of QM. Contemporary visionists like Dr. Amit Goswami, push QM far beyond EPR “spooky actions at a distance.” Kids should learn the world around them is constructed of energy, but little substance. That “energy” is beyond the instruments of science to measure, but within the grasp of the human heart.

      • Tony76

        Good comment.
        Also Einstein’s so called genius was based on 1. merely adding c as a constant to the Lorentz transformations (Special Relativity). 2. Creating claptrap in order to derive E=mc^2, already known and derived by Maxwell and his contemporaries.

        • GreenWin


          we tread on vituperative (old school) ground when questioning Einstein – which I don’t. I simply add the facts of his doubting QM, and in particular, the non-local effect that oddly bears his name (EPR) – and his annoyance therewith. Albert’s vision of packetized photon “quanta”, is deserving. Oddly, today, we enter a new world of consciousness suggesting that it is undoubted belief that alters the states of matter (e.g. quanta, wave or “spooky”.)

          Without those here and elsewhere in the universe who “believe” in the possibility of cold fusion, it could not exist. This is a spectacular breakthrough in human understanding. We have the courageous cold fusion stalwarts to thank.

          • georgehants

            GreenWin, it is fair to say that Einstein said that he excepts QM as correct and experimentally proven.
            He did not except the basis of explanation that everything is undetermined and random.
            Of course how things are arranged to be sure that there is no laplace and idea of a mechanistic existence is to be discovered, but the indeterminacy of the Quantum does a very good job at the moment.
            In the end Einstein could well be correct in that an even deeper determinate genisis may be discovered.
            Only 10 years after his death did a conformation of EPR’s failure become proven.
            It would have been wonderful had he lived to see that, but as he said, “I have done my share” and was happy to move on.

            • Peter_Roe

              I wonder what Einstein would have made of the ‘twin slit’ experiment and its apparent confirmation of superposition and the ‘observer effect’?

              Is EPR disproven? I thought this was still about the only ‘explanation’ for quantum entanglement available so far.

              Edit: I’ve just found some stuff on Bell’s theorem. Further reading required, obviously…

              • georgehants

                Hi Peter, the full description of the EPR paper was —
                They asked the question “Can Quantum-Mechanical Description of Physical Reality be Considered Complete?”
                They (Einstein)argued that “ghostly action at a distance was impossible.”
                Bell’s inequality mathematically proved beyond doubt that faster then light action in the Quantum World was the norm.
                Aspect and other later confirmed experimentally Bell’s math.
                Both showing Einstein was in error.
                Science today tries to escape the FTL fact by saying we cannot send information that way.
                The arrogance is amazing, Nature sends information through the light barrier as a matter of course, but because science cannot at this time, then it once again is impossible and must be debunked.

                • Peter_Roe

                  George, thanks for that summary. I haven’t managed to get as far as trying to understand Bell’s theorem yet as I have damaged my brain trying to understand this!:

                  The doubts that experiments like this introduce about time and causality make the whole idea of light speed as a ‘limit’ seem rather simplistic.

                • georgehants

                  Peter, please do not mention the Wiki- name, many other more reliable sources.
                  I did not want to say in my last, but the double slit was performed by Thomas Young in 1801 so Einstein certainly knew of it.
                  It was a big part of the wave particle debate.
                  If you like Wonderful science go back to the beginning of the Quantum with Plank in 1901 and all the way to Einsteins death about 1954.
                  After that except for a few Rebels it has been hidden as deep as science can bury it.
                  Only the Mathematical discovery some time ago of algorithms, proving that the Quantum computer can decipher classical codes in seconds brought out of the woodwork defense and commerce in a dreadful panic.

                • Peter_Roe

                  Twin slit – 1801. Yes, I discovered that just after making the comment. I hoped no-one would notice! I think some of the elaborations and speculations are much later though, and may post-date Einstein.

                  As you say, the insights into the fundamental nature of reality that derive from QM seem to have been largely ignored in physics. Clearly there can’t be one system that applies only at subatomic levels, and another that operates at the ‘macro’ level (with possibly another level required to explain various astronomical anomalies such as accelerating galactic dispersion and quasars without redshift.)

                  Unfortunately the clear implication of quantum mechanics is that almost everything that comprises the body of physics knowledge is at best an approximation to reality not much further advanced from Newtonian physics. I think that is probably what frightens some people.

              • Peter_Roe

                George – I’ve tracked down the ‘twin slit’ experiment I had in mind (the version with single photons that confirms self-interference within superposition, and the ‘observer effect’): Donati, O, Missiroli, G F, Pozzi, G (1973). An Experiment on Electron Interference. American Journal of Physics 41:639–644

                Sorry – should have been a bit more specific!

                • georgehants

                  Peter, “the observer effect”.
                  There are so many Wonderful effects once one looks seriously at the Quantum World.
                  This one gives full evidential reason to believe that many eastern teachings are worth taking seriously, as always open-minded and fairly sceptical.
                  But that is the way it should be with everything.
                  The Quantum shows that everything is connected and affects are instantaneous and distance is no barrier.
                  So much to discuss with the Quantum.
                  But cannot do that easily on a website.
                  I envy you if you really are just picking up on the Quantum as you can look forward to a wonderful experience reading the history of a group of the most brilliant dedicated scientists, their breakthroughs and arguments, for a common goal.
                  Einstein and Bohr at the center surrounded by many great minds.
                  I would just say you must not try and understand the Quantum in classical terms, turn off logic and common sense and just except the new logic, anything is possible.
                  Quantum mechanical quotes

                  From the revamped This Quantum World site, an all but sobering quotes collection:

                  Quantum mechanics is magic. Daniel Greenberger.
                  Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. Niels Bohr.
                  Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it. Niels Bohr.
                  If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it. John Wheeler.
                  It is safe to say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. Richard Feynman.
                  If [quantum theory] is correct, it signifies the end of physics as a science. Albert Einstein.
                  I do not like [quantum mechanics], and I am sorry I ever had anything to do with it. Erwin Schrödinger.
                  Quantum mechanics makes absolutely no sense. Roger Penrose.

    • Tony76

      George, are you in danger of creating another dogma about the world is Quantum. Please enlighten us what it means in precise language.

      A Wonderful reality already “exists behind the deadpan everyday reality that people are tricked into believing is their existence.” They have merely to switch off their televisions and wander out of a city.

      • georgehants

        Tony76, thank you, please talk in the singular if it is just you asking, I say that the World is Quantum as a fact not Dogma as you imply.
        If you have Evidence that I am in error I will be happy to look at it.

      • Max S

        every scinetists knows : there is one problem with quantum mechnics. For everything bigger than a hydrogen atom the mathematics to solve the Schroedinger equation is too complicated, therefore QM is for most applications not usable.

        • georgehants

          Max S, I did not say it was usable, I did not say there is not much work to do —
          I said, The World is Quantum and any amount of denial is irrational.
          The difficulties you point out are to a real scientist the challenge that he wants and needs, the UNKNOWN.
          Science needs to stop being afraid of what it does not know and hiding it away and start doing what it is there for —
          Do the bloody research, follow the Evidence and come up with the Truthful answers instead of the brain-dead 19. cent. reductionist Dogma that much of it follows now.

          • Max S

            I do not disgree with you at all that quantum mechanics is the basis, and in small scale a very useful and widely established tool in science. But sometimes we should be pragmatic, too. By the way, I have studied QM a few years, so I am aware of its limitations. When people use other scientific models it is not because of denial as you tend to suggest. It is because other models are more practical and on macro scale very good approximations. QM needs approximations, too, because of mathematical limitations. Just take the Born Oppenheimer approximation, without it even small molecules could not be calculated.

            • georgehants

              Max S, thank you, the Quantum as you say it is the basis for all new science including Cold Fusion and very little progress can be made without fully embracing the Quantum.
              I do not think there are any limitations to the Quantum the limitations are in the classical approximations that much of science clings on to.
              Much like continuing to use Newtonian gravity which is very successful in approximate situations, but falls apart dramatically at relativistic velocities.
              The Quantum limitations you mention are induced through lack of knowledge that cannot be made up by classical alternatives, they are just a gap filler until more knowledge is gained.
              The quantum experimental predictions have been proven correct to decimal places that at this moment are only exceeded by relativity.
              Science, as is slowly happening thankfully, in many areas must move forward to understand the Quantum in biology etc. such as the photosynthesis discoveries that have recently been made.
              The Quantum of course turns classical science upside down, such as a Quantum event can be shown to be both the cause and effect of the same event.

    • Chris

      Goodness, what a lot of ranting, all of you. You ought to try to use terminology and language that make sense and possibly even get your facts straight.

      Why confuse kids with QM before they could possibly make sense of it? It would be worse than the status quo, i. e. so many adults being told about it without a proper treatment of the von Neuman formalism, or even just the less formalized (but yet satisfactory enough) analysis that is still often used. The priority would be to dispel many misconceptions that circulate, but there’s hardly hope of it.

      Yes, quantum formalism is essentially the description of reality, but classical mechanics are still good enough for everyday things such as nuts and bolts. Especially if their atoms and molecules are not all in a coherent state.

      • I’ve learned relativity while kid, with an easy book…
        This did not prevent me to understand basic classic mechanic, but I was aware it was a simplification of reality…

        Just knowing that visible reality is a simplification of reality teach you to be careful about models and appearance…

        It is like knowing that there are different cultures and language, and that your way is not the only way.

        • Chris

          The talk was about quantum physics. Relativity is actually less troublesome, even if done with the archaic approach rather than the geomatric one of Minkowski. There are countless way of achieving what you say here (and is pedagogically good) about broadening outlooks.

          When I was a kid, I was given many books on scientific topics, including atoms and nukey stuff, which were comprehensible to me and most said nothing about quantum mechanics, save for occasionally talking about photons. One of them said something that I did not understand and it simply struck me it must be wrong: the relation between frequency of light and “size” of single photons.

          I found it batty that the decreasing “size” of the wave would increase the “size” of the corpuscle because I saw it would eventually be “more than one wave” per corpuscle whereas I was OK with the opposite. I just didn’t know what to make and I’m not sure it could have been clarified well for the 8 or 9 year old kid I was, even by talking about probability density. Most kids would have taken no interest at all in trying to understand it and I found much more stimulus in other topics.

          By the time I reached my 3rd year courses with actual treatments of quantum physics, I had heard more odds and ends, including the probability density; at that point I was able to envision the “collapsing wave” idea of my own accord and even saw how it was at odds with SR. How many elementary age kids could you expect that much from?

          At an appropriate age, I fully agree that schoolkids should be given the idea that things are wierd compared to everyday experience, only that the wierdness gets fudged out, but it should be done with caution against causing more misconception than understanding. There is all too much divulgation around that is misleading.

  • georgehants

    Power shortage risks by 2015, Ofgem warns
    Britain risks running out of energy generating capacity in the winter of 2015-16, according to the energy regulator Ofgem.
    The U.K. has two and a half million unemployed.
    Give them work producing and fitting solar cells and in five years we will be almost energy independent at almost zero cost.
    The reason it is not done is economics, designed solely to maintain the rich and powerful.
    Maybe time for a few people to wakeup and realise what brain-washed clowns we all are.

    • Voodoo

      Your solar tech and “zero cost” virtually ruined our country where was subsidised solar business of cancerous volume and electricity prices because this skyrocketed immediately. This madness was fortunate stopped. Report from CZE.

      • georgehants

        Try answering the point without irrational denial.
        How can electricity prices “rocket” without any cost, you are clearly referring to artificial introduced costs.
        The point is very simple and I look forward to your reasoned answer.
        Thank you.

        • Josh

          Aren’t all costs artificially introduced? Money’s existence doesn’t create anything. Coal is free, sunlight is free, oil is free…

        • Voodoo

          Dear George, I am econ/market analyst last 14 years and monitoring few sectors last 39 years.

          I may tell You: Your economic knowledge and education is simply tragic. Your promoted PV solar electricity virtually destroy our whole country businesses by extreme higher costs. Doing some analysis and read some news.
          Your communistic ideas was in charge in our country for 42 years and this was utter catastrophe.

        • Max S

          Georgehants need a lesson in basics of economics. In case of solar energy then sun may be free but the solar panels are a high investment which requires a capital expenditure that has to be depreciated, so there is a cost. Same for the e-cat. You don’t get it for free, right ? You pay a markup for the distibutors and manufacturers at every step of the value chain who enjoy their margins. This is how capitalism works. You may call this “artifically introduced” but for the consumer it is irrelevant, he pays the price. Plus VAT for govenment.

          • georgehants

            Max S, I was trying to get across that if the panels are made by the unemployed then the labour cost is almost zero as they are being maintained already.
            The capital costs are just the labour needed to manufacture the machines to make solar cells, insignificant of course.
            The raw materials are a few shovels full of sand and a bit of molded plastic.
            Without economics and profit then everything is worked out in man hours and there is no profit, no cost, just solar cells on every available roof and appropriate position.
            The end result is power for everybody at no cost.

            • Max S

              your model ist to squeeze the unemployed workers even more, paying virtually no salaries. Only then there would be no cost. More capitalist than reality. The machines are linked with high tech investments. where is the technology coming from and the capital ? Why do you think is one solar company after the other going insolvent after subsidies are cut ?
              You are talking complete nensense.
              Fact is solar is not yet competitive because of high manufacturing cost and can only exist due to subsidies.

              • georgehants

                Max S, your argument is pointless as you are still trying to fit my comment into a capitalist and financial model.
                I have said several times I am talking common-sense and one changes the model to fit the common-sense, not try and fit the common-sense into a faulty model.
                If you are unable to think beyond the Dogma of present economics, I must say that the point I am making will always remain beyond you.

                • Max S

                  George, it´s time to stop dreaming. The separation of “common sense” and economics is itself pointless. You have yourself explained with “cost” argument. What is the purpose of a cost if not for economics ?

        • Ivan_cev

          Voodo is correct, In Australia we pay about 52c Kwh at peak time, to pay for other people subsidised solar panels. (The bloody digital, smart meters!)
          AUD about 1.04 USD.

          • hempenearth

            I don’t know what state your in Ivan, but in Victoria we pay 25.3c/KwH and thats going down to about 12c/KwH when we finalise bulk purchase arrangements

            • GreenWin

              hempen, without rancor, I beg you to learn the English language so as to not corrupt it as the fossil fuel magnates have the energy industry.

              You and are, contract via well know grammar to… YOU’RE. I will continue to flag these errors despite your world’s insistence that criticism is verboten in paradise.

            • Ivan_Cev

              Good luck, we hopeless in NSW

            • stuey

              32c Kwh here in New South Wales, also a big hello to all the aussies reading this!


    • daniel maris

      The way to fund it would be through stamp duty so that the new householders then gets the tax refunded by way of a PV installation (plus maybe enhanced insulation) that will reduced their energy bills/provide an income through sales to the generating companies. They may also receive a share in wind turbines that would be funded through the tax.

      This would change the public’s attitude to green energy overnight, once they saw it reducing their energy bills and delivering income.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Ya some how I don’t think giving the unemployed work without pay is going to fly or finding places to supply material for free……, there would still be a substantial cost to producing and installing said panels.

      • Omega Z

        I don’t know that I would agree with all of Georges politics, But I think what he is saying here is that these out of work people are being financially supported by the system anyway so they could be required to work a certain number of hours in return. This is not free labor. Just the tax payer getting something in return for their money. Fits in a Capitalist system.

        On the other-hand, Implementing something of this nature would be problematic. A percentage of those people would be aggravated about having to do something in return for financial help. Unions would scream your taking jobs from them, & on & on.

        Aside from that, This would only make these products Cheaper. They would still not be economical.

      • stuey

        also who is going to train these unemployed people, i certainly dont want some bum on the roof of my house fitting/wiring solar panels!

        • Omega Z


          How do you know it isn’t already happening. Everyone has to learn someway. There’s a few rookies on every job some where, just joined with those who already know what there doing. We Hope Anyway.

    • Peter_Roe

      Having shut down coal-fired generation in the hope that this would reinforce the case for new nuclear fission, the gov’t now realises that even if new nuclear can be foisted on an increasingly annoyed population, that it will not arrive in time. At the same time it looks like ‘fracking’ can produce loads of cheap gas, if you don’t mind annoying more people when they turn on their taps and the smell of fart fills the air.

      So now they’re in the process softening the ground for building a new wave of ‘temporary’ gas fired generators, as about the only option left that can fill any generation gap in a couple of years. Fortunately, having all but killed the economy by trying to make it pay for the banksters’ gross and self inflicted problems, energy demand is likely to fall back to 1970 levels anyway.

  • Martin

    “Transparency is the name of the game here”. Yeah, THAT is exciting and makes Rossi look like a clown.

    • captain


      Ah so…Rossi look like a clown

      Tank U Admin, for your moderation in moderation 🙁

      And this should be the E-Cat world blog?

      Well done, mr. Martin (the snakelet)

      • Martin


      • Andrew Macleod

        Well I have to agree that I would like to see more transparency from Rossi however I don’t think he will look like a clown. If Rossi produces proof the MFMP will almost be null and void except for whatever data the capture on their setup, where as if no proof from Rossi the MFMP is there to do the science and get the proof.

        • Omega Z

          Considering Rossi owes us nothing, I think he is pretty transparent. Allowing us a small glimpse of the process.

          Tho supportive of Rossi I have no problems with these other projects. The more everyone learns the better. Additional knowledge will lead to better & quicker advances in LENR.

          And 1 big benefit is it will be that much harder to suppress or for any one entity to monopolize.

        • GreenWin

          The astonishing preponderance of little faith, begs belief in any of your world. It is so alien and far from human compassion as to demand permanent disdain.

  • Filip47


  • captain

    I’m very pleased to see that Celani’s experiment is going to be practically replicated by another team and also with young people: this is is a great contribution to the LENR-CF cause and indirectly increases the importance of Rossi’s E-Cat.
    Hoping that HUG, after receiving Celani’s ‘coated’ wires, could very soon replicate the experiment.
    I repeat, I’m very pleased to see that other potential competitors using different ways could come soon on the market: my opinion however is that the E-Cat, if not ‘obstacled’ by USPTO and UL and soon patented/certified, will be absolutely the first and real winner in the LENR field.
    All what Rossi needs now is only to be let to work in peace.

  • Ivan_cev

    Lets hope we soon hear news about a successful replication, transparency and open source is the key, These group of people deserves all our admiration.

  • Barry

    Yahooo! Most inspiring CF video I’ve seen in a long time. No secrecy or million dollar contracts but pure passionate science. Good to see young people involved. What you’re witnessing is the transparent research of Martin Fleischmann’s (and Pons) work without the interference of the scientific community and what you’re hearing is the silence of the arrogant physicist who, for one reason or another attacked CF and ridiculed anyone who tried to replicate.
    Thank you Hunt Utilities

    • andre blum


    • Kim G. Patterson

      Yes, I am glad to see the young
      scientists involved.

      It’s great.


      • georgehants

        What a shame that when these same “young scientists” try to get funding or publish a paper they will be destroyed.
        The scientific establishment must be dismantled and rebuilt following the only scientific methods —
        Search for Truth, search for the unknown in any subject not just those sanctioned by the high priests, follow the Evidence and do the bloody research without the slightest regard to closed-minded, Dogma following “expert opinions”.

  • Consolidating the acquis

  • Kim G. Patterson

    Wow! Wow!

    I liked the integration of the young with the old
    this is a good combination for creativity.

    I hope that eventually they explore the Nickel/Hydrogen
    as Rossi does and backs up his data also ect…

    I would love to be a volunteer worker in that

    Please Pump money to these people!


    • JamesThomas

      Strangely Kim, I did anonymously donate (my name here is not my full name) to the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project, just this morning.

      I was thinking that perhaps we can have a good press-release written up that can describe the efforts and goals of the MFMJ. I’m too much of an idiot to do it myself, but certainly there are kind folks out there who can do a stand-up job of it for free.

      • GreenWin

        James, the “press” is such in name only. Today, in this world, (forgive the pragmatism) it is a collection of puppet programmers under orders to write nothing of cold fusion. This is circumstantial evidence the “world” we live in is neither real, or human – since the human species is blessed with natural free will – and a somnolent goose-stepping “press,” is alien to the concept.

        • LilyLover

          Call press to oppress.

  • Pachu

    Good for them, i hope they make the science path of LENR.