Progress from the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project

I chatted today with Bob Greenyer, one of the members of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project, an organization whose goal is to provide irrefutable evidence of the reality and usefulness of LENR technology, or New Fire as they term it. It is clear the members of the MFMP have been active and busy in pursuing their goals, and new information is available on their web site, quantumheat.org

The MFPP has decided that the best way for them to proceed at present is to work on a replication of the Celani cold fusion cell, and we can keep track of the progress of their work on their new Progress Blog which includes a detailed record in text and pictures of what they are doing.

Bob emphasized that his team is absolutely committed to carrying out their goals which are certainly ambitious. He assured me that there is more to come from the project and there will be a major push to involve as many people as possible in participating in their efforts to make sure that the New Fire makes a successful entrance onto the world stage.

  • Robert Mockan

    Perhaps they will take advantage of the free evaluation service for cold fusion devices offered by http://www.earthtech.org/.

    Harold Puthoff, the CEO, would pass the making of the Celani device to Scott Little, for lab replication and testing, if asked, and have the costs absorbed by the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin.

    Any cold fusion device that passes their testing would be immediately recognized world wide as “officially” verified.

    • Cold Fusion Fan

      Seeking “officially” recognised verification, is an dead end. This due both to empirical evidence ( http://www.cheniere.org/priore/index.html ) and the constant asking from the “gate-keepers” in the webpage of the Swedish “Ny Teknik” magazine, to get the E-cat and other reactors “officially” verified. It’s to much at stake and Rossi alreday have taken the right direction by instead letting the consumers make his E-cat “officially” verified, by bying them or not.

  • http://lenr-canr.org/ Jed Rothwell

    This is just the kind of effort we need. These people appear to be no-nonsense engineers and technicians. The best replication of the Fleischmann-Pons boil off experiment was done by George Lonchampt, an engineer and French Atomic Energy Commissioner. He did everything the way Fleischmann specified, and the experiment worked exactly the way Fleischmann said it would.

    You need scientists to discover things, but you need engineers to replicate them and instrument them properly.

    • Kim G. Patterson

      Yes, and boy do we need replication now!

      Respect
      KIm

  • Methusela

    Interestingly, Rossi has indeed trademarked “E – Cat – The New Fire”

    http://www.wipo.int/

    Registration number 1097571

    This seems to show that the US refused the trademark application.

    • Methusela

      Though I think he does actually have the US mark, the website is a little unclear.

      • Peter_Roe

        He certainly claims it, but doesn’t object to non-commercial use:

        (From JONP)

        “Joseph Fine
        October 6th, 2012 at 7:07 AM
        According to E-CatWorld, a new organization honoring Martin Fleischmann has set up a website called ‘quantumheat’. See, http://www.quantumheat.org/
        They are calling the recent developments in LENR “New Fire”.
        As I recall, “New Fire” is your term. I don’t want to make trouble, but is this being done with your knowledge and approval?
        I hope this can be worked out in a friendly manner.
        Best regards,
        Joseph Fine

        “Andrea Rossi
        October 6th, 2012 at 8:53 AM
        Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
        Yes, “New Fire” is part of our trade mark , as well as “E-Cat” in all versions. But I cannot forbid the generic use of new fire, because it is a common definition. Obviously, it cannot be used to name a product in the categoties of products for which we have registered the trademark.
        Warm Regards,
        A.R.”

        • clovis

          Hi, guys.
          I know someone with in our brother hood, that if ask he would lend his co. name, which is BETTER THAN FIRE. —SMILE.—If he reads this maybe he will comment.

        • Max S

          Rossi’s statement about the trademark in all versions seems to be another “intentional misdirection”. He really cannot be that ignorant or can he ?
          A simple search in tradmark databases reveals : there are several trademarks on e-cat in the US and EU, however Rossi and his associates do not hold any of them. Rossi is not even allowed to use the world e-cat for commercial purpose unless he makes a deal with the trademark holders.

          • clovis

            Boy, what are you on about now,
            Everyone is ignorant, but yourself right,
            why don’t you enlighten us, with your data.
            what country’s database, are you whinning about.

  • barty
  • buffalo

    if/after a working lenr reaches market watch donations flood in

  • andreiko

    Het ingredient is er,het koken kan beginnen.(dutch)

  • Karl

    This is a very good initiative not only to honour Martin Fleischmann and thousands of other people that he ignited in the search for the key to a “new fire”.

    The group seems to have a very open approach to the various initiatives, which is very good.

    To create an open project around the Celani wire (as it appears he will give them his wire) seems also to be fastest route forward in a first step to achieve an open source of an irrefutable proof of LENR/ColdFusion/MPE, whatever we will finally call it.

    • daniel maris

      This could be a v. important project. If we get regular reports I am sure many of us would be willing to contribute what we can to see the project progress.

      • Karl

        Yes, certainly if successive progress is shown we could possibly also gradually be informed about the funding situation and requirements.

        It appears to be an unselfish group staffed with people that have reasonably good knowledge and skills in the field. Others could certainly be willing to contribute with their skills as well.

        As for now we see the level of donation they receive on their website.

        If the group give a successive feedback of financial requirement for alternative test set up, verification or demo systems etc. It would be easier to attract donation for each project. There may for example be a huge financial difference between setting up (purchasing) a 1 MW E-Cat and repeat the Celani experiments, however both may be important.

  • georgehants

    From Mail Online —-
    21st Century alchemy: The tiny bug that can turn common elements into 24 carat GOLD
    Professors describe their work as ‘neo-alchemy’ and exhibit findings in the form of art-science installation now on display in Austria
    It was the alchemical quest that was midwife to the birth of modern science: how to transform common elements into precious gold.
    Now researchers have found a bacterium that could fit the bill as a modern day philosophers’ stone, by turning a toxic chemical compound found in nature into solid, 24-carat gold.
    A team from Michigan State University discovered that the metal-tolerant bacteria Cupriavidus metallidurans can grow on massive concentrations of gold chloride, which is deadly to other creatures.
    They found that the tiny bugs can transform the toxic substance to produce gold nuggets.
    Scroll down for video
    Bioreactor: The installation artwork produced by two Michigan State University professors that uses bacteria to produce pure gold
    ‘Microbial alchemy is what we’re doing – transforming gold from something that has no value into a solid, precious metal that’s valuable,’ said Kazem Kashefi, assistant professor of microbiology and molecular genetics.
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2212807/21st-Century-alchemy-The-tiny-bug-turn-common-elements-24-carat-GOLD.html#ixzz28VI3I8Ho

    • Peter_Roe

      mmm – gold chloride is neither a ‘common element’ nor ‘something that has no value’. Not only that but when exposed to water, some of the gold will precipitate out naturally, so this process may be partly chemical. In any case all the remaining gold content could be easily recovered by simple electrolysis. Certainly no transmutation is involved and the ‘alchemy’ references are spurious. Prof. Kashefi seems to be trying to use sensationalism against a background of general ignorance to promote his ‘installation’ by releasing this highly spun report.

      • Ivan_cev

        A half true, gold choride, has gold, so no transmutation here.

    • Chris

      George, seriously, there is nothing new about cupriavidus metallidurans. Another species is delftia acidovorans with the same property. It was once thought that naturally occurring gold nuggets in river had been formed by such bacteria, but recent analysis of crystal structure showed they were formed underground at high temperatures.

  • georgehants
    • Iggy Dalrymple

      The best idea I ever heard of was the late John H Perry’s “Perry National Dividend Plan”.

      His idea was to sequester corporate income tax in a special fund that could be used for only 2 purposes.
      1- Pay down the national debt.
      2- Once the nation was debt-free, the fund would be paid prorata to the nation’s voters.

      This would ensure small, efficient government and would turn every voter into an advocate for efficient govt. It would give every voter a piece of corporate profits.

      The fatal flaw in this plan is that is too simple. It would put government on auto-pilot and would dis-empower politicians. Politicians want the power to distribute largess. When I explained the plan to the Executive Director of the Florida Democrat Party, his reply was, “Yeah, it would be auto-pilot, alright, too automatic.” This guy, by the way, got a million dollar govt grant to remodel and restore his ‘historic home’. He’s now a high paid lobbyist (for Big Pharma) and entertains legislatures at his historic home.
      http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1986-12-11/business/0280100033_1_corporate-tax-corporate-dividends-perry

      • Omega Z

        Another problem with the plan is about 50% of corporate profits goto Pension plans. Private pensions would evaporate & cease to exist. Corporations would basically be Nationalized And private sector would no longer invest.

        All new products would depend 100% on whether the Government thought you should have it

        Just to add, Since Venezuela nationalized their Oil companies, production has dropped 30% & near free fall collapse.

  • Ivan_Cev

    Celani replication is the right choice, Celani has explained the building of the device and I believe he will be happy to supply active wires for the replication.
    Lets hope LENR is replicated, peer reviewed and reaches the level of formal science. once is in main stream the development will be fast, Hydrogen Nickel reactions with the right active element seems not to difficult so even the poor nations will be able to develop the technology.
    If you read the presentation, they express the same fear about Rossi that I have expressed before, …Rossi has the potential to inflict serious damage to the credibility of LENR.
    Celani replication at this point in time is crucial, lets hope is achieved.

    • Peter_Roe

      “once is in main stream the development will be fast”

      Not if past performance of ‘mainstream’ science is anything to go by. However once commercial development by big-name industrial concerns takes off, the universities and research foundations will probably be left standing in the dust. Caveat: but IMHO no-one should be expecting this to rapidly lead to home heating or power, new vehicle propulsion (except maybe, big ships) or all the other amazing possibilities that have been dreamed up – it will almost certainly be used solely for military and industrial purposes for many years to come, and any private applications are likely to be suppressed ruthlessly.

      • Ivan_cev

        Probably No, because peak oil is in the front door

        • Warthog

          Peak oil has been cancelled….at least temporarily, thanks to horizontal drilling and fracking. Of course, I would “prefer” to bring the “LENR economy” on-line as quickly as possible, and save the oil/natural gas for production of chemical products.

          • Omega Z

            Peak Oil price is at the door when price becomes unaffordable. Without LENR all alternatives start up at peek price to begin with. Economic fail is ahead.

            Peek prices is just another form of rationing. What income bracket gets rationed first. The Bottom.

            • Warthog

              Yes, but that situation does not exist today. Any “rationing” currently happening is due to either government regulations or bad economic policy, or both.

              Witness the skyrocketing gas prices in California. CA requires a highly exotic “boutique” gas blend due to “environmental regulations” that is only produced by refineries in CA (not economical to produce w.o. the gov’t regs…so refineries outside CA don’t make it). A couple of refineries have had unscheduled outages, so supply has dropped. Normally, market forces would cause the importation of gas from other states…..but…..due to the regs, no other refineries produce the California “special blend”, and they couldn’t sell it to CA even if they did.

      • Karl

        I hold my hope to the ruthless capitalism – the great advantage “the creative destruction” once formulated by Joseph Schumpeter.

        Once there is a buck to earn on home heating (of customers and industrial players) there will be a huge pressure to go for it.

        I believe, the strongest resistance will come in areas with developed infrastructures and where government funding is heavily dependent on energy taxes. In areas and countries will poorer infrastructure it certainly offers a short cut in the development to give them an edge.

        This means it will likely be very difficult to suppress it everywhere for any one regardless of current power. If it is as simple as it seems to be to I hold my hope to the ruthless capitalism – “the creative destruction” once formulated by Joseph Schumpeter. Once there is a buck to earn on home heating (of customers and industrial players) there will be a huge pressure to go for it.

        I believe, the strongest resistance will come in areas with developed infrastructures and where government funding is heavily dependent on energy taxes. In areas and countries will poorer infrastructure it certainly offers a short cut in the development to give them an edge.

        This means it will likely be very difficult to suppress it everywhere for any one regardless of current power. If it is as simple as it seems to be to realise a home device etc. one the receipt is out…

        • Karl

          Sorry – the editing system played a game with me – it should be:

          I hold my hope to the ruthless capitalism – the great advantage here is “the creative destruction” once formulated by Joseph Schumpeter.

          Once there is a buck to earn on home heating (of customers and industrial players) there will be a huge pressure to go for it.

          I believe the strongest resistance will come in areas with developed infrastructures and where government funding is heavily dependent on energy taxes.

          In areas and countries will poorer infrastructure it certainly offers a short cut in the development to give them an edge.

          This means it will likely be very difficult to suppress it everywhere for any one regardless of current power. If it is as simple as it seems to be to build a home device etc. one the receipt is out…

          • Peter_Roe

            It is possible that the suppression phase for home/vehicle use may only last for as long as is necessary for the energy cartels and governments to figure out how to milk the use of CF, so that revenues and taxes remain at least level. Governments of ‘developing’ nations would probably be quite happy to play ball if the result would be more money for them, so I don’t think there is likely to be a ‘free-for-all’ anywhere in the world.

            However they may simply decide to hang on to the centralised grid model for as long as possible, with some reduction in charges, and to promote electric vehicles with satellite ‘road usage’ systems that would make taxation (and surveillance) simple and non-avoidable. Possibly new government money will become available to battery developers to ease the process along.

            The mechanism for control is simple – class LENR as nuclear and anyone found playing with it ‘illegally’ can be locked up and have their equipment and assets seized.

    • Jon

      There is also the Zeolite experiment…

      Granted it would take an expert on zeolite to be involved… but the professor that loaded zeolite with Pd got one of the highest energy outputs known per mass material. His colleague did a quick calculation and said something along the lines of a megawatt per grams material (a gram of Pd is $21.30 ) pretty cheap even compared to nickel. What would be even cheaper is if zeolite loaded with nickel gave similar results.

      BTW apparently Fleischmann new that zeolites would be a good avenue for experimentation.

      • Jon

        BTW 1 gram of nickel costs $0.0076 … less than a penny.

        Rossi who?

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          Try and buy 1 gram for a penny, or even 25¢.

          • Omega Z

            I have a Nickel in my pocket weighs about 5 grams. 25% Nickel. Of course it’s not micro or nano scale. Dang…

      • Ag

        OK. What is this zeolite experiment? I’m somewhat of a zeolite expert so would be quite interested to know…

        • dogman
          • Ag

            Thanks. Quite interesting – especially some of the papers that you post in the comments section. Looking through these documents there are several zeolites that may offer advantages for this kind of work that don’t yet appear to have been reported (most likely due to their high cost/difficulty to get hold of). I will certainly investigate further…

  • Methusela

    http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/donate

    The current level of donations do not even match the initial cost of setting up the page!

    Surely some of you can manage a one-off $10 contribution?

  • AstralProjectee

    Wow, I hope to see them on 60 minutes, in the future.

  • edog

    great little website with a good group attitude.

  • john E

    “New Fire”
    Great name.

    • Kim G. Patterson

      The name speaks for itself.

      I have a picture of cavemen all huddled
      in the corner of the cave. Terrified, not
      understanding what it is.

      Respect
      Kim

      • georgehants

        Sounds like the same picture today of science and the establishment looking at Cold Fusion.
        One day maybe, these people will grow up a little and stop being afraid of the dark in many subjects.

        • NJT

          +1

    • Joseph Fine

      The phrase “New Fire” has previously been used by Andrea Rossi. I think it is legally registered to him or to Leonardo Corporation. He probably is willing to share the use of these words, but if registered, it is not yours to use without permission. Unless, of course, he already gave permission and is part of this group.

      Joseph Fine

  • Tony76

    This is a great way of conducting an experiment – openly.
    Linus Torvalds Quote:
    “Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.

    It would be nice to also have the database of measurements published too.

    • http://www.quantumheat.org/ Bob Greenyer

      It is intended that the data will be published live on the internet from the various replications and we hope that people will download it. From the outset this has been the intended approach and so the data capture and software systems are being designed to deliver in this way. We have tested the live updates on Mac/PC (various browsers) and on Android and iOS smart devices. You will be able to sit on the train to work and see the updates and be able to download cumulative data.

      We believe there are many people out there that are more than capable to look at the data and draw conclusions. We are all peers.

  • Kim G. Patterson

    The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project is another example
    of the psyche phase we are in.

    There is a certain amount or a critical mass meeting of the minds that must first be established
    before a consensus reality can be had.

    It a Good thing and its normal, but its take long.. long
    time.

    Respect
    Kim

    • Warthog

      I don’t think it will take all that long. In the “olden days” of slow communication/transmission of ideas, that would have been true. but with info nowadays moving through millions of electronic pathways at the speed of light, progress will be significantly accelerated.

  • Barry

    There is something very solid about the steady progress of the MFMP group. Thanks Frank.

  • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

    Yes. A.R. is generous towards the use of “New Fire” by the open source movement. I am happy with that.