NYT: Funding for Fusion in Question


Thanks to Joe Shea for pointing out a New York Times article published today which discusses the future of a giant laser used in the US National Nuclear Security Administration’s fusion project. Funding for the laser runs out today, and more funds will need to be allocated by Congress in order to keep the project going.

The problem is that the project’s goal of producing controlled fusion that would provide a new source of cheap and abundant energy by creating a ‘tiny star’ on earth has so far failed. The laser, located at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California, is supposed to be able to create fusion by targeting tiny beads of hydrogen fuel, setting off a controllable fusion reaction. So far, this has not happened, and in order to get more funds, the laser team is going to have to send a report to Congress explaining why there has been no success so far, and why more funding is justifed.

Officers at the project were interviewed for the article, and offered some comments:

“It’s like having a cure for cancer by a certain date,” said Penrose C. Albright, the laboratory’s director. “I understand why people want to have milestones. But when you’re dealing with science and Mother Nature, all you really can do is agree on whether you’re on the right path . . . ”

“Contrary to what some people say, this has been a spectacular success,” said Edward Moses, the laser’s director. Even so, he added, “science on schedule is a hard thing to do”

A more sober assessment was made by Stephen Bodner, a former director of a laser project at the Naval Research Laboratory:

The question is whether you continue to pour money into it or start over,I think they’re in real trouble and that continuing the funding at the current level makes no sense

According to the article the laser project has so far cost $5 billion. Readers here may wonder what even a tiny fraction of that price tag might be able to do for the development of cold fusion technology which seems to be far less complex, and able to deliver results here and now. Perhaps over time there will be more interest from the scientific community and politicians — and hopefully also the New York Times.

  • georgehants

    Courtesy of Vortex-1
    United States Patent 6,025,810
    Strom
    Hyper-light-speed antenna
    Abstract
    A method to transmit and receive electromagnetic waves which comprises generating opposing magnetic fields having a plane of maximum force running perpendicular to a longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating a heat source along an axis parallel to the longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating an accelerator parallel to and in close proximity to the heat source, thereby creating an input and output port; and generating a communications signal into the input and output port, thereby sending the signal at a speed faster than light.
    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=6025810&OS=6025810&RS=6025810

  • captain

    Rossi E-Cat über alles!
    The more I go on in these blogs, the more I’m convinced of the real greatness of Rossi’s reactor.
    Why?
    Because of the genial ‘simplicity’ of his discovery, the large abundance of common elements used, nickel and hydrogen, and the tiny amount of something special ‘nanoparticles’ in the catalyzer.

    But most of all, his reactor is running at least from 3 yrs, not from yesterday; and now with big improvements, producing a tremendous output of thermal energy, though ‘castrated’ to a miserable COP6 (say for safety reasons, but IMO to facilitate the release of patents from USPTO and to render easier the UL certification).

    In addition, a complete 1MW HOT industrial thermoelectric generating plant running in a self-sustain mode, could EASILY be put for sale in the market before next summer.

    Hi Admin, awaiting your suggestion on where to have such a plant running in SSM, visible by everybody, having Rossi’s IP SAFELY PROTECTED, and producing very very cheap, clean, safe energy. I would prefer only ELECTRIC ENERGY, easier to be automatically and continuously measured, together with the input of electric energy consumed. I would suggest all measures personally taken by National Instruments guys :-)

    A ‘gift’ from Rossi, with his approval, oviously.

    Time is up to give people an E-Cat ELECTRIC POWER public demonstration, in a wide open space, in the middle of a square and without a connection to the grid.

    PS: public demonstration for me means ONLY to give the final demonstration of the COLD FUSION, LENR, as U like to call it, shutting up people’s mouths.

    Energy ready for JUST NOW, not … for the future.

    And with no one cent from taxpayers!!!

    • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

      How do u know he has a plant running for three yrs?

      • captain

        I’ve said ‘reactor’ not ‘plant’.
        Approx 1 yr ago Rossi said that his E-Cat has been running continuously ( non stop) for abt. 2 yrs,heating his workshop/wharehouse in Italy.

        • GreenWin

          Think he was speaking metaphorically? It’s all the rage.

        • John

          He has an unlicensed nuclear device running in central europe? In Italy even, which prohibits nuclear power by law?

  • georgehants

    From New Energy & Fual
    Yet Another Fusion Process is Coming
    October 1, 2012
    Muon catalyzed fusion is another interesting process that could well bring nearly unlimited low cost electrical power to market.
    Muon catalyzed fusion has been observed for decades, inconsistently and at productivity insufficient to be considered a viable energy source.
    At least three efforts are underway, in Australia, Japan and Canada. One, which seems well funded and has some of the wraps off, is the Australian Firm Star Scientific Limited.
    http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2012/10/01/yet-another-fusion-process-is-coming/

  • georgehants

    From Cold Fusion Now , Ruby Carat
    In June 2012, I went to interview Dr. Melvin Miles on his career investigating cold fusion electrolytic cells as both a Professor and a Navy researcher, now retired.
    I didn’t know I’d get two interviews that day.
    We met in the office of Dr. Iraj Parchamazad, Chairman of the Chemistry Department at the University of LaVerne, in LaVerne, California, who is also studying low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR) using an unusual environment on the nano-scale: zeolites.
    I was prepared for Dr. Miles‘ interview, and made two movies about him; one, discussing the early years of cold fusion and Why Cold Fusion Was Rejected and two, Dr. Miles talking about how his cell is put together and showing his calorimeter that measures highly-accurate temperature changes in How to Make a Calorimeter, both of which you can view here.
    But, I wasn’t prepared for the discussion on how zeolite crystals host tiny particles of palladium in their unusual geometry, and make anomalous heat when exposed to deuterium gas.
    Well, after over five hours of discussion, I knew a whole lot more about this new style of room-temperature, gas-loaded, zero input energy heat production from an expert in that particular application.
    In this video, you too can see how LENR research is conducted in one U.S. university lab, complete with all the financial struggles that have characterized the study of new energy for two decades, and learn how scientists are finding new ways to generate useful heat energy that reveals yet another path to ultra-clean, energy-dense, and abundant power for the world.
    http://coldfusionnow.org/iraj-parchamazad-lenr-with-zeolites/

  • barty

    Haiko Lietz, an author of the german magazine “telopolis”, has published a new report about the events of the last half year!

    http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/37/37677/1.html

    “Heise” is one of the biggest and famous german publisher’s of computer and science magazines with a very well visited online news platform.
    In great britan “heise” is known als “the-h”: http://www.h-online.com/

    • Peter_Roe

      The article seems to have been prompted by Adolf and Inge Schneider and Gerd Neumann (German distributors group), the latter being quoted. Very useful free publicity for them. Leitz seems to have accepted the story pretty much as it must have been presented, presumably by the licencees. Either the Editor was on holiday, or the writ of the US PTB is rather feeble in Germany.

  • georgehants

    From THe Scientist.
    October 2012
    Science and Democracy
    Researchers and conscientious citizens must unite against the partisan rancor in American politics and restore the role of scientific information in policymaking.
    Scientists are used to debating with one another about the finer points of new research. But increasingly, they find themselves battling their televisions and computer screens, which transmit ever-more-heated rhetoric from politicians, pundits, and other public figures who misinterpret, misrepresent, and malign scientific results.
    This rising tide of spin is the most visible outcome of the growing and troubling disconnect between scientists and much of the rest of society.
    That disconnect has its roots in the growing power of ideological extremes across the US political system. Congress is as polarized now as it was in the days of Reconstruction, and even elected officials at the state and local levels have come down with hyperpartisan fever. Our fractured media landscape makes it easier for politicians to speak directly to their most fervent supporters while ignoring the great majority of Americans, who want sound decision making and compromise rather than rancor.
    It’s easy to bemoan this sorry state of affairs. Many of us are content to pretend this is somebody else’s problem. But that is a mistake. If scientists and conscientious citizens disengage, these problems will only get worse.
    http://the-scientist.com/2012/10/01/science-and-democracy/

    • georgehants

      From The Guardian.
      Business
      Pharmaceuticals industry
      The drugs don’t work: a modern medical scandal
      The doctors prescribing the drugs don’t know they don’t do what they’re meant to. Nor do their patients. The manufacturers know full well, but they’re not telling.
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/21/drugs-industry-scandal-ben-goldacre

      • Peter_Roe

        Oh no, they’re onto us! Quick – pass the smoke grenades!

  • Mr. Catalyst

    Nickel copper alloys treated to modify surface geometry can possess ten times or more the catalytic power of nickel or hydrogen alone.

    http://pdf.lookchem.com/pdf/22/6a8bf0f0-db4e-4146-855e-c872c4c026a3.pdf

    Other relevant papers can also be found to back this assertion.

    Nickel copper alloy in powder form is currently available. With proper processing to create optimal surface features and increase the number of reaction sites, an alloy with 10% copper could potentially be useful to induce nuclear reactions.

    Combine this with radio frequency stimulation and the ECAT might be the result.

    • Max S

      the paper refers to chemical catalysis such as catalytic hydrogenation, and hydrogen-deuterium exchange. To suggest any link with LENR here is speculative. The system Ni-H in catalytic hydrogenations has been used in the chemical industry on large scale since many decades. It is a standard procedure in chemistry. Every graduate student in chemistry would take such experiments.
      However, the difference would be radio frequency stimulation as you suggested. Where do you have the information from that Rossi is actually using RF ? Any source for this ?

      • Omega Z

        Many that post here are aware Rossi uses a frequency generator or RF. He has mentioned on several occasions in JONP among other places.

        The electronics are simple & small contained in the control panel.

        The only speculation has been exactly how it’s emitted in the E-cat as there are several ways to do it. Most of us assume it’s sent concurrently thru the power line & possibly within the current frequency itself.

  • Omega Z

    Hot Fusion has been of interest for 60 years.
    I believe Hot Fusion is feasible. In the year 2100 plus…

    The Big Push & Mega-Bucks spending started when the Cold War Ended.
    With Major reductions in Nuclear arsenals & the research that accompanies it, your suddenly faced with 1000′s of physicists out of a job. People with a unique expertise with no where to go.

    Some who may go to work for rogue Nations building & proliferating Nuclear Weapons. I recall reading of the concern of this happening at the time.

    It’s My Opinion that the Developed Nations agreed to the Major Push of Hot Fusion Projects & the shared costs to implement it. Knowing full well that it was a Century long process. A Quick Fix for what was considered a Dire Situation. Unemployed physicists. Something that could be sold to the Public as an Energy Independence Solution. Providing little public resistance to the Funding at the time. Especially when it’s promoted as always just 20 years away. Cheap, Clean, For everyone???

    In the Governments Process of implementing this program, it has been akin to building a house before the foundation has been laid. But then, The Intent was always to keep these people Working. Always Hoping to gain some Scientific Knowledge to justify it’s continuation. Even if just a tiny bit.

    I can’t verify these as Facts. Just Statements I’ve read over time made by a few Hot Fusion researchers.

    Hot Fusion will never be Cheap because of the costs to build the facilities & rebuild them every half dozen years or so. The Process is very detrimental to the facilities & equipment used. Science is many decades away from alleviating this problem.

    Another stated that even if Cheap, It would never provide power to most of the World. Their are only about a Dozen locations in the World that are Isolated & Remote Enough where these facilities could be safely Built & Operated.

    Yeah, That 1 makes you scratch your head. Just How Dangerous & Risky are these Hot Fusion Systems they envision. Considering today we have Nuclear Power Plants built next to cities. What have we NOT Been Told.

    To them, What we’re Not told doesn’t matter. It would only be detrimental to the project at hand. Besides, (Kick The Can) That will be 5 decades maybe more down the road. Most of them & us will be gone. The next Generation can worry about it.

    Incidentally, I can agree with their quick fix considering their concerns, had it been followed with re-purposing these researchers over time. But with any Government project or agency, it soon develops into a self preserving system. These are now your Primary opponents against Cold Fusion. It a matter of self preservation.

    • GreenWin

      Well done Omega. Yes, many institutional scientists and politicians know this is a physicist welfare program. But why do we put good minds to work on a hopeless technology? Because it does not threaten the oil cartels. That is going to change. Soon.

    • freethinker

      They are the primary opponents on the scientific arena. Down in the dirt it must still be big oil that constitutes the primary opponent. Those two together constitutes a formidable foe, with almost limitless resources, cleuth, and very deep insight into any scientific argument made, able to spin it anyway the like. It does not take excessive imagination to realize that putting lenr as no.1 energy source in our society will be one tough battle.

      • Omega Z

        freethinker

        I have to disagree. By the time LENR becomes fully integrated into society the Oil companies would have already been seeing dwindling profits. Due to dwindling supplies & prices so high that few would buy it. By that time without LENR, Wind & solar would actually be considered cheap. The Only exception would be NG.

        The Oil companies know this. Which is why it appears the Oil companies are actually involved in there own LENR research. Most of the Big Boys have already been connected to LENR.

        In the end, all they have to do is buy in. Just as the Big boys bought into Facebook before it went public. OK, Bad Example. Most of them didn’t do as well as they had hoped. But you get my point.

        They can get in long before the public can As Private investors. Corporations don’t care so much about what they sell as long as they make a profit. In fact many have their own products & not a single manufacture or production plant. It’s all farmed out.

    • Peter_Roe

      The irony of the present denial situation among physicists is that studying the ‘cold fusion’ phenomenon(a) might well lead to understandings that could facilitate some kind of hot fusion – if anyone still wanted it!

  • vbasic

    “The sun has a core pressure of 1.65 × 109 tons/in sq.”
    They can do it in an H bomb, but its time to give up the idea it can be done in a realistic containable manner for controlled hot fusion. Because not only do high temps need to be achieved, but those high pressures. That gravity gives fusion its juice, not just heat.
    So here is where LENR makes sense. All the elements on the periodic table here on earth are compressed hydrogen from the stars. First, in regular stars then in red giants up to iron. Then, in supernovas the elements above including the ones right above iron, such as Cobalt and Nickel. Since the goal is seeking materials where there is compression and pushes free hydrogen together, the compression is right there. Plus, those metals seem to attract hydrogen to the voids within. LENR makes more sense from even an astronomical point of view as well as the physics than controlled hot fusion.

    • vbasic

      “The sun has a core pressure of 1.65 × 109 tons/in sq.” Not. Yikes. I left out the power sign. It’s 1.65 x 10 ^9 . Thats 1.65 x (10 to the
      ninth power} from following website. Alot more than 109 tons per square inch.

      http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/MarinaTreybick.shtml ninth power) f

    • Kim G. Patterson

      Trying to emulate the fusion reaction
      of the sun.

      They do not even know why the sun’s
      Magnetic poles change position every
      11 years.

      Give me a break!!!!

      Respect
      Kim

  • GreenWin

    The National Ignition Facility costing $4 billion, recently fired a laser “shot” of 500tW (1tW = 1000 billion Watts) energy at a fusion target. To keep this in perspective, all 6 billion humans across the planet during an entire year consume only 13.5tW of energy. The NIF test failed to produce more than 0.1% fusion.

    Here is the first paragraph from the very green NRDC report on the NIF boondoggle:

    “Since the disclosure in late August 1999 that senior officials of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory had lied to Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, and that he in turn had unwittingly provided false testimony to Congress regarding the status of the National Ignition Facility (NIF) Project, the publicly acknowledged cost to complete research, development and construction of the NIF Laser System has more than trebled, to an estimated $4.0 billion.”

    http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nif2/findings.asp

    • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

      Green i dont disagree with you but you cant compare powers like that because its two different energy scales

      • Ged

        Indeed, that last power figure should actually be TWh. 20 TW per hour of power is consumed by the world as of 2008. It’s an easy thing to confuse, and not directly comparable to the 500 TW of the laser since that was an instantaneous rate, versus average rate over time.

        As power is energy per second, what happens if you fire a small amount of energy over a -very small- amount of time? You get enormous power. This is how femtosecond lasers work. Because the pulse lasted so much shorter than a second, the effective power is 500 TW, even though it did not use 500 TJoules of energy. And since this happened in less than a second and isn’t an average rate over time (which would be 0 for the rest of the hour), the actual kWh of the laser are probably pretty low.

    • GreenWin

      Proponents claim NIF will help “maintain” the US nuclear weapon stockpile. From “When Peer Review Fails” the NRDC fact finding report:

      “According to Bob Puerifoy, a retired vice-president of Sandia National Laboratories and 39-year veteran of nuclear weapon design, testing and evaluation, “NIF is worthless…it can’t be used to maintain the stockpile, period.” [38] When Livermore’s founder and resident icon, Edward Teller, was asked by an NRDC staff scientist what role NIF would have in maintaining the nuclear stockpile, Teller replied, “None whatsoever.”
      http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nif2/findings.asp#price

      Isn’t it time to quit these hot fusion boondoggles??

      • LCD

        NIF and nuclear simulations go hand in hand. Therefore a way to maintain the nuclear stockpile is to simulate everything from measurements. To anchor your simulations it is nice to have a nuclear experiment such as NIF. HOWEVER when the primary objective of NIF is no longer feasible then NIF is useless byvirtue of being overkill to maintain the nuclear stockpile.

        We need to move on from NIF, unfortunately.

      • GreenWin

        Thanks for pointing out the tWH discrepancy Ged. It makes the NIF energy metric look far more believable. Never-the-less the failure to achieve 1:1 parity makes these experiments unnecessary.

    • Chris

      Oh but the 500TW pulse lasts much less than an entire year. It lasts slightly less than 4 billionths of a second. In fact it isn’t relevant to say how many TW people use in a year because TW is power, not energy. So what exactly are you comparing that laser pulse with?

      If instead you compare 500TW to the average power used by the entire global population, then we would still kinda need to know how often that pulse would get repeated, in order to maintain a given average output power. In the end, this would be just the famous COP that one tries to make as high as possible (and certainly greater than 1). The laser system presumably has its own local energy storage which gets recharged steadily between pulses, something like a camera’s electronic flash bulb but on a larger scale.

    • GreenWin

      I also failed to point to the NIF test that put 192 beams together to produce 1.875MJ UV pulses a couple months ago. Here is how NIF describes its power conditioning systems:

      “Peak current for the system exceeds 100 million amperes and the peak power exceeds one terawatt (one trillion watts)—more power than the entire United States uses in that same fraction of a second. Pulses are delivered to the flashlamps via more than 150 kilometers (100 miles) of high-voltage cable.”

  • Roger Bird

    The New York Slime is an unreliable, dishonest, and manipulative newspaper. Perhaps that article is a plant in order to manipulate Congress into spending more money on a failed project run by extremely intelligent but narrowly focused people.

    • GreenWin

      Roger, it never used to be that way… before the pod people took over :) It was the NYT and Washington Post that broke the Watergate story resulting in momentous Supreme Court decisions and the first resignation of a US President.

      • hempenearth

        I can’t find anything earlier that JN Wilfords NYT report on 24th April 1989 with the term “cold fusion”. Fleischman regretted calling it fusion but I suspect the NYT chose to call it “cold fusion” to create conflict with “hot fusion”, because conflict sells more newspapers.
        http://www.nytimes.com/1989/04/24/us/fusion-furor-science-s-human-face.html

        If anyone can point me to an earlier reference to “cold fusion” it would be greatly appreciated.

        • Omega Z

          @ hempenearth

          I believe the story goes that Pons & Fleischmann didn’t want to call it cold fusion. They were prodded into it against the own better judgment by the University hierarchy.

          The term Cold Fusion was coined long before this, but can’t say exactly when. A little research into the Pons & Fleischmann story will probably lead you to it.

      • Roger Bird

        You mean when a so-called reporter for the New York Slime traveled through Ukraine in the 1930′s when millions of people were being starved to death by Stalin and he “reported” (read: lied) that everything was just hunky dory, because he was a leftist and didn’t want to make Stalin look bad, you mean the pod people were before that?

        • GreenWin

          That sounds exactly like a pod-person.

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      The NYT is by far the best newspaper on Earth.

  • georgehants

    From Defkalion Page —-
    Glad to hear that a leader in this field has moved to our city.
    In the vein of Independent Testing, we are group of teachers and students at a Vancouver, B.C. area Secondary School who are well on the way to fire up their replication of the ‘Athanor’, based on the work released by Ugo Abundo and the L. Pirelli. We should be ready for early tests by the end of this October (2012), but the calorimetry work needed to release high quality data will take much more time. We intend to release information, with the caveat that the quality of research work needed to address the skeptics and definitely show excess heat production is a very slow, challenging and expensive process. It is very possible we will simply confirm the law of conservation of energy.
    To Defkalion, in order to inspire our students to work harder and longer, would a tour of your facility be possible for roughly 12 Grade 12 students and 4 Teachers? The students are all taking Physics 12 & Chem 12, and the teachers are Physics, Chemistry and Robotics instructors. We are the reigning World Champions in an international Robotics League, and wish to keep raising the bar to engage our students and change the world.
    Failing a tour, would it be possible to have a talk by an Engineer or Scientist at lunch time or after school, possibly on safety issues around hydrogen, problems in measurement and calorimetry?
    Let us know.

    @ HappyRocker
    We would be glad to help you and your students offering an educational visit to our labs. Our PR department will be in contact with you to arrange and prepare a visit.
    DGT
    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1303&start=10

    • Peter_Roe

      Bought forward from the previous thread:

      I have been consistantly saying for many months that this would be the next stage in the disinfo campaign, as soon as it became plain that denial and ridicule weren’t going to cut it any longer.

      The intention will be to both frighten gullible people so that they bleat for protection from the scary inventors, and to prepare the ground for an ‘incident’ that will allow officialdom to try to swallow up CF into the same area that fission occupies, and so take control of the technology on behalf of their sponsors.

      Confirmation of this path would be if/when the MSM break their silence with scare stories about CF on a widespread basis.

      • Peter_Roe

        Sorry – wrong place. I’d intended this comment to follow Georgehants’ post below (3:24pm).

        Admin – any chance you could move the comment please, and delete this one?

    • daniel maris

      George – High school kids? Sounds like Gary Wright to me…LOL

    • edog

      That is a very interesting post George!
      I hope they get some good results from their Anathor set up… I wonder if they are communicating directly with Pirelli or Mr Abundo?
      I would think so if they are chatting with Defikalion! I hope they get their tour and some pictures and a bit of a report!

  • G-Man

    Rossi’s new post seems a little suspicious to me… how does his English improve so much in such short order… or maybe this has been translated by someone else and posted. Hmmm I believe in the P.F.E. by the way, so no need to trash on me.

    • Hampus

      Maybe he has someone that write for him now, he can’t do all on his own.

    • Barry

      You’re right G-man, doesn’t sound like him.

  • http://globalenergysys.net David Farnsworth

    My dear friends I cannot sit here and read these post and not say something I would like to bring it to everyone’s attention that the fusion work that has been done in California and other places has gained a lot of knowledge although they have not completed the things that were important for their goals of the science that has been learn thus far it has been genuine and great about what can be and what can not be as far as creating a star using hydrogen molecules, these men and women have worked hard and long for their science and it must be understood that they are not going to say or tell about everything that there doing or that they have learned it is not wise to talk unkindly about these people.
    Yes there has been a few people in the past who have talked about the people who are doing work in cold fusion and yes these people were unkind as well when they should have stood back and taken a hard look at the science and what is actually there so these people did not take the high ground and because of that it made some hard feelings. I suggested everyone takes the high ground and stops talking unkindly about other people and their science and start working together for the common goal of learning what is truly important which is the science itself and coming to a complete understanding of what is taking place in some of these experiments.
    It is important to understand as well you only waste money in hindsight the money that has been spent so far to learn in the sciences no one knows not only what those expenses will be but how far can it go there for it is not waste it is always true that in hindsight you wish you could have done something better a different way perhaps but nevertheless it is very difficult to turn back the clock so it is important to look forward and to keep your eyes focused on what is in front of you to make the best of the knowledge you learn so that all of these experiments can become a success.
    Mr. Rossi I understand that people have said things about your technology that was unkind you claimed to be a God fearing man I would suggest you take the high ground and allow your work to prove itself and nothing else. Do not waste time worrying about other people and what they’re doing worry about your own work.
    I would like to add that I know a few of these people that work in these areas of science with the gov’t and private institutions and I must say the work they’re doing is exemplary and for all of you people out there that truly do not understand this you must understand that the work that is being done in these institutions there is far more going on than any of you could realize at this time.
    Again please be kind to these people they work on their projects as hard as you work on yours.
    Warmest regards to all

    • machenation

      Hi, thanks for the info.
      Although, I am thinking that the TOKAMAK design was a commie plot, ask
      if you can, Solzhenitsyn.
      Best regards.

    • clovis

      hey, David is this a threat

      (And it must be understood that they are not going to say or tell about everything that their doing or that they have learned it is not wise to talk unkindly about these people.)
      what your people needs do is,catch the l.e.n.r. train before it leaves the station, and the rest of the world is waving you good by.
      as Dr. rossie says don’t be THE NIAGARA FALLS OF STUPIDITIES

    • Andrew Macleod

      The science is important, almost everyone here I assume would agree. The real problem I have with “hot” fusion is so much money and credit is given to it when on the other hand no money and no credit Is given to cold fusion. It’s like have two children, the older gets all the new toys, clothes and is praised at every achievement while the younger gets all the hand-me-downs and used toys and no matter what he/she does is never recognized for their accomplishments. Forever standing in the shadow of the older. Science needs to address the issue and view the two as different instead of one competing with the other. Maybe hot fusion will work when cold fusion is understood….

    • jacob

      thanks David,a lot of us know a lot of hard and honest work is going on and we appreciate it all.

    • Warthog

      The only problem with your little screed is that in addition to “….working on their projects as hard as you work on yours….” they also indulged in extra-curricular activity to stifle any and all positive reportage or financial support of cold fusion, a technology which has ALREADY surpassed, on a shoestring budget, milestones that the HF (hot fusion) community has failed to reach in fifty years and with hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars spent.

      Their behavior as scientists has been totally unconscionable.

      • Tony76

        Agreed Warthog.
        One can agree with David that civility and humility at all times is a good thing. However, the message that criticism and discrimination is out of bounds is pure political correctness, the enemy of civilization.
        David must also consider the harm done by corporate politicking in science to human development and progress, including the relief of suffering in the world. No one is criticizing the scientists at the chalk face.

        • georgehants

          Tony76, you say —
          “No one is criticizing the scientists at the chalk face.”
          Is science some kind of democracy or just a religious dictatorship.
          As with life in general people get roughly what they ask for.
          If ordinary people stood up for a fair society then the rich and powerful would soon be removed as all pointless finance and money, other than a simple reward system, would be removed.
          Everybody in that new system could retire at say age 50.
          Every scientist from the lowest to the highest has a responsibility to put it’s house in order.
          Science is meant to be for the people not a club where “qualified” “opinion experts” can wallow in self-importance, dictating beliefs and policy to the working plebs of science.
          With Cold Fusion and many other subjects it is up to the ordinary scientist to react and rebel against the establishment, when Truth is being ignored and overridden with Dogma for whatever reasons.
          Or are you saying all scientists are just ineffectual “yes men”, there just to bow down to the whims and irrationality of the high priests.

  • H. R. Gillis

    Laser fusion is in reality weapons research, simulating thermonuclear explosions on small scale.

    • GreenWin

      Then it should be included in the military budget and overseen as such.

      • clovis

        agreed, smile

      • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

        It is

        • GreenWin

          References please.

          • Omega Z

            GreenWin

            Most of these laser projects get funds shuffled around from different agencies. Many have common Overseers that share certain info. Thus justifying fund transfers.

            Obama Gutted a specific Navel project in his 1st budget. Cut 95%. At least that’s how it was reported. Could be that it was so close to it’s goal that it was taken to black projects.

            It was pretty much at the point of fine tuning & tweaking. 3 to 5 years. Would have made possession of Nukes a liability instead of an asset. In lift stage it provided the choice/ability of missile destruct or detonate. If we should tell someone to go Nuke themselves we may really mean it.

            Seriously thou- There’s a risk in developing weapons like this. The, If your about to make my primary weapons useless- Use it or Lose it mentality.

            Another project, lasers are used for scanning. Can detect #personnel & positions in concrete block enclosure. We’ve just been scanned Captain. Raise shields.
            Future versions may even provide B&W images. And of coarse Color would follow.

            These laser scanners or a variation of may eventually make it to medical services as it has advantages over x-rays & is safer & in time much cheaper. Also in real time with doctor present. No trip to the x-ray lab.

            • GreenWin

              Thanks Omega. Clearly however there is a difference between NIF purporting to research H2/D2 fusion, and coherent energy weapons or scanning. We do not use 500tW pulses in medicine.

              Your Star Trek scenario is interesting, I’d like a full briefing. Further, if civilian funds are used to supplement military projects – they better have an achievable civilian application. And they best deliver.

              It was only a matter of time before people realized hot fusion is an unbelievable facade.

              • kemo sabe

                There are proposals to use multi-hundred TW lasers in medicine. See http://www.intechopen.com/books/laser-systems-for-applications/laser-pulse-contrast-ratio-cleaning-in-100-tw-scale-ti-sapphire-laser-systems

                But 500 TW laser pulses, while technologically cutting edge, only amount to 15 J of energy delivered in 30 fs (search Hercules petawatt laser). It takes thousands of times more energy just to make a piece of toast.

                Understanding the difference between watts and joules is an asset if you want to opine on the question of energy.

              • Omega Z

                GreenWin

                I would suspect that most of the technology transfer was from military to the NIF, but usually some quid quo pro happens.

                Star Trek. Reality follows Science Fiction.

                NASA already has a design for shield technology, But at present it’s just a radiation shield for long duration trips like to mars. There’s Continuing research for a physical shield against solid objects. I believe in the plasma form & possibly magnetic. Still in very early stage of theories. Some actual Lab experiments.

                The hold up of the Radiation shield has been in power generation. A future LENR tech to the rescue.

                NASA also has a small team studying Warp type technology. Looking at cracks in the so called Laws that allow for it. They speculate it may happen within this century. To late for me. Dang it. Some of those Alien babes look Hot.

                Those who keep track of tech know that the developers of cell phones were Trekkies. They also have plans to turn the cell phone into something like a tricorder in the very near future. Possibly using a type of incorporated laser scanner among other things.

                Like most that Hope Rossi comes thru, I think about the benefits to the present energy system, But am also aware of all the future tech that becomes feasible with cheap energy.

                Final NOTE: I agree on the Hot Fusion waste, but so you know where I’m coming from I take a slightly larger View of the NIF project. It just may provide us the technology to Stop a big rock from hitting Our Big Rock.:)

              • GreenWin

                Thanks again Omega – very useful. Kimo Sabe has been re-awakened to inform us that: “…500 TW laser pulses, while technologically cutting edge, only amount to 15 J of energy delivered in 30 fs (search Hercules petawatt laser). It takes thousands of times more energy just to make a piece of toast.”

                Of course to knock a rock outta the sky will take a far bigger, i.e. longer timed pulses at more than “15 joules.” He seems to forget that NIF put 192 beams together to produce 1.875MJ pulses a couple months ago.

                BTW W-Larsen got his LENR patent for a “gamma shield.” It appears to work fine for that purpose.

                • kemo sabe

                  Not saying there aren’t powerful lasers. Just saying that 500 TW doesn’t necessarily mean a lot of energy, and comparing it to the world’s power consumption (“for a year”) indicates you don’t understand what power means.

                  By the way, 2 MJ is a lot in a short pulse, especially concentrated over a small area, but on average, an American uses about that much every 3 minutes or so.

                  I have no idea what the relevance of your WL comment is. (Anyway, you can get a patent without demonstrating that something works; the laser, e.g., was patented before it was demonstrated.)

                • GreenWin

                  Kemo, Omega was discussing a theoretical radiation shield. Larson claims his “invention” deflects or absorbs gamma, I forget which. It is a convoluted patent at best.

                  And apparently I was looking at old data. According to the wikids, Earth’s total energy consumption 2008 was 15 terawatts (1.504×1013 W). For the layperson the comparison is valid. NIF uses 100MAmps to generate shots at between 100 & 500tW of power, regardless of time slice. That’s a sheitload for failure.

                • kemo sabe

                  The statement that the total energy consumption in 2008 was 15 TW does not make sense because energy is not measured in watts. The total energy consumption in 2008 was about 500 exajoules (500 x 10^18 joules). The laser pulse energy is 15 joules, or about a million million million times less. You seemed to suggest it was more.
                  -
                  It’s true the instantaneous laser power output of 500 TW is much higher than the average global power consumption of about 16 TW. But comparing peak powers to average powers is very misleading. The power delivered in a single nuclear fission event is about 20 TW, but entire nuclear plants generate only about a GW on average. If you stop a bullet from a high-powered rifle in a cm or so, it would require about a GW of power, the average output of power plants. Not a meaningful comparison. (In fact, there are proposals to generate petawatts of power by accelerating tiny diamond bullets and colliding them with crystals.)

                • Omega Z

                  @ kemo

                  500Tw for 1 second is equivalent of 500TJ

                  1 watt over 1 second is 1 joule
                  1 watt over 2 seconds is .5 joules per second.
                  Watts is power
                  Joules is time.
                  To be accurate you would need to see the details.
                  Per the Article: 1.85 megajoules Not 15 joules. That’s a hugh difference.

                  In general we deal in watts & watt hours from the consumer point of view.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    September 30th, 2012 at 7:35 AM
    THERE IS A COMIC SITUATION IN THE NIAGARA FALLS OF STUPIDITIES FLOATING IN THE INTERNET REGARDING THE E-CATS TECHNOLOGY: THE SAME “EXPERTS” THAT FOR YEARS HAVE EXPLAINED HOW AND WHY OUR TECH CANNOT WORK, NOW HAVE CHANGED REGISTER, AND ARE MAKING A FUSS ABOUT THE SAFETY OF THE REACTORS. THIS GIVES EVIDENCE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOT IN SEARCH OF THE TRUTH, BUT THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO STOP US AT ANY COST: IN FACT THE TWO ISSUES ARE IN UNSUSTAINABLE CONTRADICTION, BECAUSE THE CASES ARE TWO
    1- OR THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE E-CAT DOES NOT WORK: BUT IN THIS CASE, THERE ARE NOT SAFETY ISSUES, BECAUSE IN THIS CASE THE E-CAT BECOMES A VULGAR ELECTRIC WATER BOILER
    2- OR THE REACTOR IS DANGEROUS AND THE SAFETY HAS NOT BEEN SUFFICIENTLY PROVEN: BUT IN THIS CASE, THAT MEANS THE TECHNOLOGY WORKS AND IS NUCLEAR !!!
    HE,HE,HE…
    WARM REGARDS,
    ANDREA ROSSI

    • Kim G. Patterson

      Andrea Rossi is just stating the obvious.

      Its not a figment of his imagination.

      There are real and present forces trying to
      stop and de-rail

      Simple as that.

      Respect
      Kim

      • Hampus

        I don’t agree with his childish way of dealing with criticism, but many big man have been this way, Steve jobs for example he was nearly impossible to work with.

        • Ash

          Steve Jobs actually shipped products. Rossi just talks.

        • GreenWin

          I don’t agree with childish criticism. Or the outdated pedagogy it derives from.

      • http://globalenergysys.net David Farnsworth

        The only people that can stop Rossi is Rossi himself .
        If rossi’s work is good then he will go forward if rossi’s work is bad than he will not go forward.

        • clovis

          David,
          why do you keep saying (if) it works, there is no if,

        • freethinker

          I wish that were so, but big corporate thinking does not let it be so. Lets face it, if your company is making billions on a yearly basis, what is ten or even a hundred million dollars to secure that any potential opposition is eliminated, as to secure coming years billions of revenues. There are many examples in history. My recent favourite is bananas. You dont know? Ask Dole.

        • GreenWin

          Mr. Farnsworth, it takes little logic to understand why fossil and fission cartels oppose cold fusion. Rest assured the good honest scientists at work in legit hot fusion programs will find new homes in the LENR economy.

          As for Rossi, he appears to have accomplished more in 4 years with no money, than the global hot fusion enterprise has in 60 years with $270 billion in public funds. That’s pretty good.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      Checkmate!!!

    • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

      Here its the bottom line. So far the radiation measured has been low. However since we don’t have a theory we don’t know why it is low and we don’t know if it will stay that way.

      Its probably Too easy to replicate so too hard to control or regulate the technology so now you really have a problem if we ever discover it is easy to weaponize.

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

    LENR is too simple to be useful in the quest of new fundamental knowledges for the human kind.

    • john E

      ok.
      I’ll take 2 e-cats, please.

      • jedslater

        I would like to take two to go! and fuel for the next 30 years. :-)

        • clovis

          I’ll take a six-pack.
          My friends want one .– big smile

  • machenation

    I have been anxious about laser generated fusion since the last Apollo
    mission. The men in science whom have bilked over $35b around the world
    were aghast over Pons and Fleishman. There is a parallel in history.
    The Royal Academy of Science in Oxford was offered evidence of microscopic
    creatures in rain water taken from a rain barrel by a commoner, with only
    his microscope and no formal education. The scientists scoffed and ridiculed
    this idea for twenty years, but the man kept writing letters and finally
    someone agreed to look. The Academy finally inducted the commoner into their
    ludicrous club and of course this was the beginning of micro biology.
    The men of science hate Rossi,I know, I talked to a PhD. from John Hopkins
    Applied Physics, and according to this article his support team and he are done.

    • Tony76

      “his support team and he are done.”
      You refer to Rossi or the JH Applied Physics?

      Who was the guy who discovered microbes?

      • machenation

        hi, I was thinking that John Hopkins, a private concern, has contracts with many different Governments, around the world.
        Of course the collapse of economies everywhere and particularly
        the U.S, has reduced grants and schemes of advanced projects and
        theories both inside and outside the government.
        The battle cry of the scientific community is publish or perish.
        What success has Hot Fusion produced or published?
        In my opinion Hot Fusion technology is a massive welfare system.
        I believe Mr. Rossi is supported by fat cats and only partially
        hurt by the loss of government funding.
        AS for your second question about microbes, I don’t know.
        Who invented the electron microscope?
        Cheers.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    What bothers me about most of the hot fusion people is that they’re such poor sports. They rationalize their jealousy to themselves as “being responsible” and feel the need to disparage anyone who has a more subtle and imaginative approach to fusion. I (and most people) had a great deal of respect for them and still would have respect for them (like the respect people have for George Miley) if they hadn’t behaved the way they did in 1989. They cooked their own goose.

    • GreenWin

      And now the goose is cooked, the meek are going to eat it.

  • jedslater

    Imagine if all that money went into LENR research!

  • david smith

    Forgive me for being a skeptic. It is not about the science, it is however about the money and the power behind the money.

    • john E

      that’s not being a skeptic, David, but a cynic.
      and that’s reasonable at this point.

    • Robert Mockan

      It is even simpler than that for the scientists doing the research in hot fusion.

      It is fun! Lots of money to think about and do things that the private sector could never afford.

      Of course they want to keep the money flowing into their “work”. Scientists, especially the really high brow ones, have only one alternative to keep the funding for the work they want to do, and that is to teach. Bleh!

  • Barry

    “…would provide a new source of cheap and abundant energy.” Even if they could achieve abundance, it would be by no means cheap.

    • http://HamsterFusion Elias

      1: Yes its not a machine you could buy and have in your tool shed!
      We would still be dependent on governments and global corporations
      2: Someone pointed out that this machine is also weapon research since the lasers could be used as a weapon. (Im not sure if this is true, but it makes sense to me that)

      So they will probably get more money! :(

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

        The data gathered from the shots are used to check the results of computer simulations of those shots. If the results match then the code can be used to simulate the detonation of atomic weapons. In other words at the present time the project largely supports atomic weapon research.

  • Peter_Roe

    $5 billion so far just for the ‘igniter’! Then they would need to find some way to capture enough energy from a fusion process or event to offset the electrical cost of charging the laser, AND produce useful power. Totally ridiculous.

    I wonder which particular idiots signed off on this particular project in the first place. Someone with an IQ that exceeds their shirt size should be asking a few questions. Still, I’m sure the military will not let an ultra-powerful laser go entirely to waste.

    Edit: Moderated again! I wonder if there is there a prize for the longest unbroken string of auto-moderated comments?

    • edog

      I got upto 15 words once….
      I wonder what words are too sensitive??

      …. ridiculous ? nope wasnt that word..
      military ? AND ?