EPRI Publishes Report on Energy Production from Nanoscale Metal Lattice

Thanks to E-Cat World readers for bringing attention to a new report published by Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) entitled “Program on Technology
Innovation: Assessment of Novel Energy Production Mechanisms in a Nanoscale Metal Lattice”. The report was prepared by Brian Ahern of Vibronic Energy Technologies Corporation and included an attempt to replicate the work of Professor Yoshiaki Arata who reported the production of excess heat from palladium powder infused with deuterium gas with no input power. Ahern also experimented with nickel powder and hydrogen gas. Here are some of his observations:

Nanopowder in the size range of 5–10 nm (verified by transmission electron microscope) was found to cause small amounts of excess power (in the 100-milliwatt level) for Ni-Pd alloys in the Arata format.

Three experiments were performed which illustrated that reproducible quantities of (several watts of) excess thermal power production can be obtained with nanotextured nickel and hydrogen. However, these samples needed to be heated above 360 C to observe the excess.

The full report can be downloaded for free here

Since so many people are having a hard time seeing the document, I have embedded it below. Since the document was made available for free by EPRI, I hope they don’t mind me doing this.


  • GreenWin

    “YES. This LENR experiment is very important to us and our EPRI members; the largest electric utilities in the United States. But…”


  • clovis

    What is it about the metal lattice of the nickel element, that it should expand to such an extent that a hydrogen particle could be squeezed in,
    and how quickly will it contract and expand again. is the melting temp of ni too high for transmutation to take place, and phase in the weak nuclear force and because the medium being heat it is boosted. does that make any kind of sense. smile

  • Omega Z

    He has accomplished nothing.
    Pay No attention to the E-cat. IT DOES NOT WORK.

    The More thou dost Protest, The more Curious I become. If he has nothing, Then why your concern.

    A tidbit from Rossi-September 29th, 2012 at 8:04 AM
    The “evil force” is working for us: the more they say stupidities, the more we gain credibility: this is exactly what we are experiencing in the market.
    Warm Regards,

  • sven

    “This result is approaching the level reported by the three independent European efforts [5, 6, 16]. The powder maintained this rate of thermal power output for a period of five days when it was terminated for evaluation. There was no sign of degradation of the energy output.

    Unfortunately the test data for this run was lost and this test run is recommended to be duplicated in any follow-on effort.”

    You find evidence for life on Mars but then coincidentally you delete the data? Considering how well this experiment was setup and documented, isn’t that a little-bit strange mistake?

    • GreenWin

      Not even deleted Sven. They claim to have “lost” the data. Lost it? Mean like, “We put it down by the coffee machine and well… it just disappeared!”

      Maybe it’s loose, careening down the EPRI hallways in Palo Alto. How does one spell I N C O M P E T E N T?

  • GreenWin

    EPRI would do well to set up a major seminar advising their members of the inevitable introduction of commercial LENR. That is in fact their mandate. Such a seminar would detail the state of the art technology and ways to immediately prepare for it. To do anything else will be a huge disservice to their membership.

    Members choice, like that for all in the energy markets now is, stay narrow-minded and fight the inevitable (remember the Ice Man?) – or broaden one’s vision; see the vast new opportunities in empowering billions of people. Climb aboard the Abundance Train, or be left standing on the platform, dumbfounded, and bankrupt. What’s your choice??

    • Jim

      The electricity generators might be thinking about all those future carbon fuel deliveries that they have contracted for.

      • GreenWin

        Cancel the contracts. Or try to compete against distributed energy. When home refrigeration became viable, millions canceled their ice deliveries. Why should electric companies not play by same rules??

      • Chris

        Do you know how commodity futures work? They can be bought and sold on the market. They say Soros got his riches by speculating on them. Anybody who is concerned they won’t be needing their futures when they reach maturity can sell them beforehand, especially if they don’t think the quotations are on the way up.

        • GreenWin

          Chris, you are confused between Wall St CBT broker “contracts” and actual contracts for deliverable goods to utilities. Most public utilities are prevented by law from speculating on CBT-type commodity contracts. A utility may pay a penalty to cancel delivery of coal, but if that means staying in business… it’s up to the utility.

          • Chris

            First, tell me then what futures are for and the supposed difference between “contracts” in double quotes and the ones you term as actual; AFAIK the futures traded on the market are indeed actual contracts (to the bearer) for delivery of commodities. What do traders do with them whem they reach maturity? Do they wipe their arses with them? They might as well, if they haven’t promptly either sent someone to collect, or told the issuer where to deliver (whatever the contract provides for).

            I also think you are confused about what I said, it didn’t require utilities to be speculating on the futures. AFAIK they eventually go from the traders to the “actual users” of the kind of commodity in question (or to merchants with a warehouse).

            My drift (if anyone couldn’t figure it) was that I don’t see why utilities would need to contract long term fuel purchase obligations. I doubt they do so, by the very fact that they aren’t speculators. I can only see them ensuring a supply for a reasonable term to avoid any risk of a temporary shutdown. A few weeks? Couple months at the most?

            BTW, why only Wall street? Even in the US there is e. g. the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

  • jedslater

    I went to there site, but the file is not accessible anymore “There is a problem with this download. The system is unable to provide you with the requested file. “

    • captain

      just follow what barty suggested

      barty on September 28, 2012 at 12:34 pm
      Go to http://my.epri.com/portal/server.pt?Abstract_id=000000000001025575
      and click on the “Download” Button on the right side under the headline!

      It works fine to me.

      • jedslater

        Thanks 🙂

        • clovis

          hi, guys.
          Sounds , like they got cold shivvers down their backbone.-smile

  • georgehants

    From Cold Fusion Now —
    As many people know already, I’ve been speaking on the radio about Cold Fusion for years and knew of it’s potential and existence far before most of the world. The human race is at a special point. We now have the choice to change the world for the better by preparing individually to bring forth man’s greatest invention since fire. However, it should be known that this breakthrough is for everyone. Not just the so called elite. And I’m going to make sure it stays that way…

    On November 9th 10th and 11th I’ll be attending The International Conference on the Breakthrough Energy Movement where I’ll be releasing for the first time to the world the truth behind the Cold Fusion movement. As many of you know, I initiated the ColdFusionNow.org meme for many reasons. All of this will be revealed and much more. The world will learn of the latest developments as well as a world exclusive.

  • georgehants

    From Cold Fusion Now —
    As many people know already, I’ve been speaking on the radio about Cold Fusion for years and knew of it’s potential and existence far before most of the world. The human race is at a special point. We now have the choice to change the world for the better by preparing individually to bring forth man’s greatest invention since fire. However, it should be known that this breakthrough is for everyone. Not just the so called elite. And I’m going to make sure it stays that way…

    On November 9th 10th and 11th I’ll be attending The International Conference on the Breakthrough Energy Movement where I’ll be releasing for the first time to the world the truth behind the Cold Fusion movement. As many of you know, I initiated the ColdFusionNow.org meme for many reasons. All of this will be revealed and much more. The world will learn of the latest developments as well as a world exclusive.

    • Peter_Roe

      Not exactly the self-effacing type is he! The same seems to go for Mr Means, judging by the self description at his website. We wait with bated breath..

      • GreenWin

        Interesting though to see the odd, if not eclectic bunch of Whole Earthers, maverick scientists, true greens (not the climate bunch), old hippies, and New Agers who are enthused by this discovery.

        If it follows previous social movement patterns, I expect to see socialist radicals, pyramid powerists, and same sexers climbing aboard next. IMO, ALL are welcome.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        “Not exactly the self-effacing type is he!”

        A preview of the future when politicians run to the front of the parade.

        • clovis


  • georgehants

    Cures giving a little more information —-

    • Chris

      He doesn’t say anything all that interesting, except for one thing which I find rather odd indeed.

      I wouldn’t think the black paint needed to be commissioned from a specialized lab and at such a high price. I a jocular fashion, decryptable by those up to date on local news over here, he is letting on that it cost about €5000/kg although presumably in small quantities. I don’t know why they couldn’t have used something already available to industry.

      • Peter_Roe

        Or just held it over a smokey oil lamp for a while!

        • clovis

          It was a one time only thing just for testing the different radiations that it was producing.

      • GreenWin

        He does allude to plenty of cloak and dagger behind the scenes. To be expected considering the fate of centralized energy, if they don’t get aboard the Abundance Train.

        Picture EPRI, a tiny ragamuffin standing on the station platform, dumbfounded as the Abundance Train pulls away.

        • Chris

          Errrr, I was talking about his posts of the past couple days, to which I assumed GH would have been referring. Where does he talk about the cloak’n’dagger stuff?

  • Voodoo

    As some military aircraft jet engines may be emergency starting by pyropatrones, so some micrograms of Thermate may be helpful for starting E-Cat reactions.

    When I wrote this at JoNP, I was immediatelly canceled.

    Maybe some sensitive word.

    • Peter_Roe

      Thermate. Thermite or thermate were once favourite pseudoskeptic ‘explanations’ for anomolous heat generated in Rossi’s reactors. Perhaps they still are among a certain die-hard breed of determined deniers.

      It is difficult to imagine how igniting a compound that can melt steel, inside an e-cat might be helpful. There are other problems related both to the quantity you suggest, and the behaviour of an oxidative reaction in a reducing atmoshere.

      PS – I have never heard of ‘pyropatrones’ – did you make this word up?

    • Omega Z


      Yes, that is a sensitive word. Early skeptics attacked him with this. Certain words used even as a supportive Idea are auto censored to avoid conflicts.

      I’ve been supportive of Rossi & posted there without ever being moderated. However some of my last posts must have been to sensitive. All my posts there now go to never, never land instantly. Even posting have a good day never gets through.

      • georgehants

        Omega Z, it is not just you, the dreaded machine is stopping lots of comments.
        Just a glitch I think.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          I can no longer post on JONP either but have
          no problem interacting with Rossi via email.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            I keep changing my email address and I get through.

  • Chris

    Well, it gave me a “download error” message but it is good news in any case.

    Seems like folks are working on it and looks like Rossi will have more and more competitors. He might still be the first on the markets but he won’t have a monopoly for long and not much point for secrecy. This makes good for the general public.

    • admin

      It is a strange link, sometimes it works for me, sometimes it doesn’t. Not sure what the problem is.

      • Ivan_Cev

        It gives error for me also, is any one able to get the doc and put it some where else?

        • admin

          I have embedded the document in the post now, Ivan.

          • Ivan_Cev

            It is a fantastic doc, the bit I more liked is:
            “Regardless of the underlying process, the excess thermal power output observed in this study, coupled with reports of European efforts, suggests that a new energy production concept maybe present and warrants further investigation and continued attempts for replication.”
            The era of LENR have started!

            • This paragraph is one of those statements that overlooks a host of current research, not the least of which is Andrea Rossi’s, not to mention Randell Mills’, Brillouin’s, etc. It’s why I say this paper was intended to prevent alarm among electricity producers, not to actually encourage further research.

              “While several research reports from Europe indicated significant thermal energy output from nanotextured nickel in the presence of hydrogen gas, tests of similar materials conducted under this EPRI research grant produced only milliwatt-scale thermal power releases, and in one experiment, a 21-watt release was observed but not replicated.’

              The best way to reach the paper, BTW, is to copy the title from this article and paste it into their search engine at upper right, and then click on the title when the results appear. It’s buried three deep.

            • Jim Johnson

              Concur, definitely an important paragraph to be published under the auspices of an organization like EPRI.

          • captain

            just follow what barty suggested

            barty on September 28, 2012 at 12:34 pm
            Go to http://my.epri.com/portal/server.pt?Abstract_id=000000000001025575

            and click on the “Download” Button on the right side under the headline!
            It works fine to me.

            • Chris

              Yes this does work, thanks, now I can see it full size for me poor worn eyes.

    • I think you misread the motive for this piece. I believe it was to reassure EPRI members – the entire electric industry – that cold fusion and the anomalous heat effect are no threat to them. They have no interest in changing out their billions of dollars in generating equipment for something new – that currently produces a few worthless milliamps, unlike the Hot Cat.

      • Barry

        Did you read the report Joe? It sounds conservative, and well it should be, but it is by no means disregarding CF- “This experimental work should continue and the last experiment conducted in this project should be replicated by an independent lab such as SRI International.”

      • jacob

        Joe,you hit the nail right on the head,that billions worth of generating equipment is on a payment plan and will need some decades to get paid for,until the Hot Cat is established ,could be a few years ,or not at all,if bought out and shelved by the big players.
        Until then it will be business as usual .

      • Chris

        First, as I had said, I hadn’t yet read it. But as Barry suggests it looks like you haven’t either.

        EPRI members did not need to be reassured that cold fusion and the anomalous heat effect are no threat to them because it is obviously no such threat. It is only a threat to those who make their money on fossil fuels and other sources that could be supplanted. It will not be difficult to convert fossil fired thermoelectric plants to CF, just like many coal fired ones have recently been converted to methane in the US, following a decrease in price of the gas.

        The only thing electric companies might fear is direct production of heat by folks that currently use electric resistance (which isn’t a good choice anyway except where fuel combustion would be awkward). There might wind up being some shift from large electric utilities to in situ production, but the best course the big guys have for countering this is to avoid coming in second with CF and that is the sense of this report.

        Your conspiracy theory hardly holds up and, now that I’ve read at least some of the report, I see it quite like Barry. See the last two bits before the appendix.

        • GreenWin

          Chris makes the precise argument. EPRI’s members are all centralized utilities. They are in business and therefor competition, like phone companies. Phone companies have had a sharply rising curve of upgrades and adaptation the last 20 years. Land lines lost monopoly to VOIP cable and DSL. VOIP lost subscriptions to wireless. Wireless has had nothing but continual upgrades for 20 years.

          Utilities are NO DIFFERENT. They must face the inevitability of major reconfiguration of their grid systems and major diversification into “in situ” distributed energy production. EPRI members should all be scrambling for leaders with deep vision. Wrong choices now will leave them bankrupt on the platform as the Abundance Train leaves the station.

      • clovis

        rolling on the floor laughting my _ssoff.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      Does not say much for our intellectual property rights system, and our first to demonstrate patent system. Seems to me the “powers to be” are keeping all lanes open to their friends so they can catch up.

      • Chris

        Oh gosh, Rossi made an absolutely lousy job of applying for an international patent and it is no wonder that it failed. Actually, the only truly amazing thing about it is that he was actually awarded the patent in one country but maybe this was due to patriotism LOL.

  • Robert Mockan

    Always enjoy reading a real research report. A few comments.

    In the vacuum system they were using dry ice to prevent diffusion pump oil back-flow (page 1-2). Dry ice temperature is not really sufficiently low to prevent back flow contamination to insure a high quality vacuum, needed whenever working with thin films or nano-particles. They should use at least liquid nitrogen, or better a turbomolecular pump that does not use diffusion pump oil.

    Making the zirconium-active metal amorphous alloy then oxidizing and ball milling it to form small particles of the nano-metal particles surrounded and protected from agglomeration by the oxidized zirconium, is a proven method of stabilizing an active LENR catalyst, and an expensive procedure (page 2-1 to 2-3). But nickel nano-powder alone, not in a zirconium oxide composite worked better, giving the approximately 4 kilowatts per kilogram of nickel at 533 degree C (page 4-3 to 4-4).

    One can justifiably conclude if a reactor were better thermally insulated the temperature would increase until the catalyst nickel was destroyed in some way, (and ultimately, of course, by melting). We know from Rossi a higher temperature is possible, as well as a higher power density (greater than 4 kilowatts per kilogram).

    The report mentions need for more experiments. Meanwhile EPRI does appear to verify that the very basic catalyst, nickel nano-particles in the proper size range, by itself, can be used in self sustaining reactors that use their own heat to maintain their operation, and do not require external electric power once heated to their operating temperature.

    Evidently Rossi, Celani, Piantelli, and so on, have done some of those experiments, and we know Rossi is using a promoter element or compound to increase hydrogen spillover (helps make hydrogen available for the catalyst reaction. These are a common addition to many ordinary chemical catalysts used in hydrogenation reactions, and apparently also useful for LENR catalysts. They include metal oxides, potassium, carbon, and so on). Celani is using a nickel and copper alloy wire with nano-size surface imperfections, and Piantelli has been using thin metal sheets in recent experiments also surface treated to provide nano-size imperfections.

    For people who want to make their own LENR catalysts from nickel nano-particles, there are a variety of ways to make such particles using chemical reactions with nickel salts, like nickel sulfate and nickel chloride. Potassium boro-hydride is one of the reducing agents that will react with nickel compounds in solution resulting in nano-particles. If a cheap method that makes LENR catalyst were publicized, there could be an immediate market to sell tons of the material to aware people more than ready to build their own reactors.

    Rossi better hurry up and market something, otherwise he may be left in the dust when the stampede begins for energy independence.

    • Ged

      Indeed! I love all your points.

      This paper is a huge advance for the fundamentals of LENR, similarly to Celani’s work. It’s great seeing such a diversity now. This means there’s plenty of room to find that “magic combination”, and the LENR event is not so particular or fragile as to need prohibitively stringent conditions.

      Can’t wait to see what someone cooks up next. I don’t think we’ve begun yet to tap into this.

      • Ivan_Cev

        Could be good to contact Celani and ask him about his wire, I know there is a patent, I am not sure if is about the last treatment of the wire.
        Celani experiment seem simple enough for any one to try.
        Maybe Celani could start by selling wires to hobbyist.

        • Robert Mockan

          I have a kilo of wire like Celani used to do his experiments. The problem with trying to surface treat it is that the most powerful microscope I have is optical and about 900 power, so viewing nano-size surface imperfections is out of the question (I have used it in metallurgy experiments looking at alloy grain structure, and for biology, but those observations can be done at 900 power). Unless Celani documents PRECISELY how to do the surface treatment, I have no way to determine if the surface is properly treated. Trial and error, and test it for LENR activity? Possible, but the wire is not cheap. I do not plan on using up valuable potential catalyst material until I have more information. Celani could sell treated wire to hobbyists, but he could do better if he would tell every body …exactly… how it is made. Then we could devise a machine, or just the plans to build it, to make active LENR wire per the Celani process.

    • I agree. It’s only a matter of time before an effective, affordable catalyst is readily available. We could even see a race by suppliers to provide such material. Once this material is on the market, hundreds or thousands of companies will come up with endless reactor designs for different purposes. At that point there’s no stopping this technology. Bring it on! Energy independence can’t come too soon.

      A nice side affect will be not having to skim through hundreds of annoying comments from patho-skeptics/trolls.

      • Robert Mockan

        I suspect there is an active effort to prevent just such progress, from different events that I have experienced. For example recently a flash memory module I had plugged into my computer USB port containing a few hundred MB of articles about making potential LENR catalysts was destroyed. I was organizing the information for posting to my web site for public access, and contained design details of equipment needed. It was all original material by me with links to all the references I was using. I found it still plugged, but inoperative, after my computer was virus infected resulting in a system crash that only a complete reformat of the hard drive could repair. A cyber attack? Given this is not the first instance of information resources I was using being compromised, I doubt it was coincidence. I had 6 other memory modules plugged into ports at the same time, and none of them was affected. Only the one containing folders having to do with LENR, and the new articles I was writing to help make LENR catalysts. This is just one peculiar event. I have had others pertaining to my funding resources that have delayed progress.

        As to how long it might be before others pick up the ball and start running with it, here is an example of what is available to reference if people are willing to not just talk the walk, but do the walk.

        Making the nickel nano-particles, and testing them, is not beyond the ability of science inclined individuals. This is just one of literally hundreds of methods that have potential for making inexpensive LENR catalyst.


        • Omega Z

          So I’m not the only one who has had strange experiences that only relate to LENR.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Me too.

        • Peter_Roe

          I remember reading last year sometime on a blog, that the writer (US based) had ordered some nickel nanopowder from his usual supplier, with the intention of attempting to replicate the prototype e-cat.

          Shortly after the order was placed, the supplier cancelled his account, and his debit card account was emptied of funds and then closed. The blogger seemed to be sincere, and from his earlier posts was not into conspracy theories. I have been trying to re-find the blog but have not been able to so far.

          If this sort of thing really is happening, it is certainly very worrying, and would indicate a degree of surveillance and micro-control that is difficult to imagine.

          • GreenWin

            Peter, years ago I read a sci-fi novel about a team of scientists working in a highly compartmentalized development environment. So compartmentalized they were unaware of it in fact. They shared mutual interests in FTL propulsion and were inspired by an oppositional group determined to kill their project.

            Lo and behold, this team came up with break through ideas, thinking only they were kibbitzing with like-minded geeks. It would make a cool movie I think!

            “Little is what it seems. Said the ant.”

        • Thinksforself

          There very well may be a considerable effort in play to suppress LENR. If you take a bottom up view of what a working LENR electric generator would do to the world it is easy to see where the motivation to do so may stem from.

          The thermo-electric effect that creates electricity in thermocouples has been known for a long time. Tesla had a patent for a device using a large coil of wire suspended over a fire pit to generate electricity for instance. Using thermocouples along with a self sustaining LENR reactor or reactors a consumer grade generator would not be very difficult to produce. The reactors mechanically are very simple in design when compared with something like a refrigerator. Adding thermocouples surrounding the reactors along with electrical control and conditioning equipment to produce an usable current doesn’t even raise the complexity beyond an automobile. If we assume a 5% conversion rate heat to electricity for cheap common thermocouples in production today, 40kW of heat would give an electrical output of 2kW continuous output. Enough power if combined with batteries to provide extra power during high demand times to take the average home completely off the grid. Say you double the output to 4kW continuous and now you can charge your plugin hybrid car as well. All the equipment involved would take up less space than one spot in a garage. The payoff would take years to hit break even, but the loan payment to cover the generator is far more predictable than the price of electricity and gasoline on the open market.

          So the average consumer converts and stops buying power from the grid as well as stops buying gasoline unless they go on a long trip. The petroleum and electric utility industries lose money, competition becomes fierce and many companies go out of business. The businesses providing coal, natural gas as well as parts and machinery to mine the coal and natural gas also go through the same loss of business and competition, closing most of them in the process. Oil companies to stay competitive start using sources closer and closer to home to reduce costs of transportation resulting in near zero imports to countries with some level of domestic production capacity. This results in near zero influx of cash to the Mideast. The instability this causes in the Mideast makes today’s problems look like a lovers squabble.

          So it is not unreasonable to conceive that large corporations or even governments would want to mitigate this by slowing or even trying to prevent the adoption of LENR by the world market.

          • Ivan_cev

            You can not win, then you produce global warming

          • Thinksforself

            The total heat created by current means of generating electricity and propelling Automobiles is likely very close to the waste heat in my scenario above. Crude Oil has to be transported to a refinery and cracked before being transported again to a station all of which releases heat. Three to four times as much electricity has to be generated at the power station than is actually used due to line loss. The delta between the two is pretty much a wash. The major difference being no green house gases are created by lenr, so more of the heat can radiate from the planet. Also I left plenty of room for efficiency improvements and use of the waste heat. It is very likely that houses equipped like above would need very little to no additional energy added to heat the house or water as the captured waste heat would provide all that was needed.

        • Jim

          I didn’t like to think of such things until I realized that it would be no more than an after-thought for one or more oil oligarchs (choose among many nationalities) to drop as many millions as necessary (found under the couch cushions) on any number of available cyber-criminals ( through the oligarchs existing cut-outs) to do the things described. Remember Watergate? They tried to steal the American presidential election using burglary tools. Instead of “How could this be?” it’s more like, “Of course there is such interference!” Maybe the lessons are “forewarned is forearmed” and “put it out on the net as early as possible”.

          • GreenWin

            Jim, there are already too many industry, academic, government agency, military scientists at work on this to quell. One or another will demonstrate soon, a viable commercial power system (Rossi already sells his 1MW e-cat.)

            The best the old school energy barons can do is delay the inevitable. Or, guarantee their future by getting on board the Abundance Train. Only the narrow-minded will not see the vast opportunities in bringing low cost energy to BILLIONS of new customers. Or the effect of abundant fresh water, heat, electricity on health, conservation and food production.

            Choices are needed. Opt to fight the inevitable and die, or get aboard the new paradigm and survive and flourish.

            • Bernie Koppenhofer

              The government and or big oil are trying to slow down the development of LENR until they can catch up and exploit it themselves. Who and when their stooges start getting patents will tip their hand and tell us who and how much it is going to cost us.

  • Mark

    Please, can somebody explain
    why it is here a talk about catalyst
    and non-catalytic reactions.
    If LENR is a nuclear, it does
    not need a catalyst to lower
    the threshold… energy of any
    chemical catalyst would not be able to trigger
    a nuclear reaction… we need
    a certain energy level of an electron , neutron,
    or photon .
    If it is a chemical reaction, Rossi
    needs a catalyst.

    • Peter_Roe

      Mark, there was some discussion here of what might be meant by ‘catalyst’ a few threads back. Please see http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/09/rossi-not-a-chemical-catalyst/ and also some comments in the preceding thread.

      • georgehants
        • hadamhiram


        • Filip47

          The hollow Moon is full of this stuff.

          • Filip47

            for anyone who doubts: I am kidding.

        • Ivan_Cev

          Please do not put these subjects in this forum, It just make me think you live an alternate reality.
          An obviously you do not understand this kind of jokes puts down the good work of the Admin.

          • georgehants

            Ivan_Cev, Thank you, but I really am not concerned about what you think of what kind of reality I live in.
            Please do not presume to give orders on a another mans website.
            Would be very fair for you to write, “I disagree with off topic comments,”

        • Barry

          Have you guys ever heard of the “Discloser Project”? (Sorry Frank way off topic) Workers from NASA said they would answer to an investigative commitee on how they airbrused photo’s of the dark side of the moon, removing images of towers. http://www.disclosureproject.org/ They are quite convincing, but I can’t afford to be a UFO nut as well as a CF nut. I feel I would lose a lot of credibility. For that reason I hope I never see a UFO. That is until CF has been excepted as repeatable science to the point where MIT higher ups have to admit they were wrong and Eugene Mallove, Mitchell Swartz and Peter Hagelstein were (and are) right.

    • Robert Mockan

      People trying to explain LENR often confuse the issue by trying to explain it using words from a different context. When a person says “catalyst” in the LENR context, they mean it helps make the conditions that enable LENR to happen. Going beyond that and saying it “triggers” anything, or even lowers “activation energy”, are concepts from the chemical industry, and may or not apply to LENR.

      Edmund Storms explained that once the conditions in a material are right for cold fusion to happen, it will happen, without any more effort by the researcher. The conditions in a material, that is “condensed matter”, are different from the conditions particles in free space or a plasma in free space are affected by. All anybody really knows at the present time is that certain materials in certain forms seem to help make LENR happen. Saying they are catalysts is just a way of talking about them.

      A chemical catalyst can sometimes lower the activation energy of a chemical reaction by bringing reactants closer together in a preferred orientation resulting in reactions at lower temperatures, pressures, and so on, to give the desired products. Since nuclear reactions have “activation energies” much in excess of chemical reactions, as you alluded to, the materials being used in LENR clearly are doing something else, or at least more, than what a conventional “catalyst” does in the chemical industry.

      I suppose just to sum up, using the word “catalyst” discussing LENR, is just a convenience until we have a better understanding what is happening.

    • Ged

      As Robert says, a catalyst is just something that speeds up or makes a reaction easier to perform. It is not what makes a reaction possible. Many things can be catalysts, as long as they themselves are not used up, even the reactor geometry could be considered a “catalyst” if it is facilitating the reaction above and beyond some base condition.

      Chemistry follows the exact same definition of catalyst, they just have specific types of catalyst that do their actions in particular ways usually dealing with activation energy (generally, they set up a favorable chemical environment for a reaction, or bridge and orient two chemicals in space so as to facilitate the reaction). However, in nuclear reactions there -is still- activation energy that must be overcome (e.g. Coulomb barrier). Oxides in a local metal lattice, for instance, can change the electron screening of an atomic hydrogen nucleus, lowering the activation energy necessary for nuclear fusion. In that way, oxides are acting on a nuclear scale in the same vein as a chemical catalyst does on a chemical scale.

      That is just one theory that was experimentally investigated awhile ago, at least.

      In ELTB theory, it is the formation of a Bose-Einstein condensate between two hydrogens in a linear trap, catalysed through resonance vibrations of the metal lattice, that lowers the activation energy barrier enough to fuse hydrogen at low (100 C+) temperatures.

    • Alan DeAngelis

      H-tunneling has been observed in some enzyme systems. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005272805002781
      So, the chemistry of the particles may somehow help promote nuclear reactions.

      • Peter_Roe

        Chemistry is the study of the interactions of electron shells of the various elements. When you get to hydrogen (or deuterium) with its single electron then I suppose it becomes logical that chemistry might go a bit deeper when the hydrogen nucleus become ‘bare’.

  • DaveS

    New interpretation of Brillouin’s Electron Capture theory from Dr. Myron Evans:

    Brillouin Energy Theory

    This can be modelled in the theory of UFT228 by electron tunnelling of an electron into a barrier. The phonon wave is a spacetime wave in ECE theory. The capture of the electron by the proton is quantum tunnelling in our language, as in notes 229(1) and 229(2). The electron electron and proton proton terms are Coulombic. I wouls say that there is quantum tunnelling with simultaneous absorption of energy from a wave. This could be resonant absorption as discussed. Note 229(3) has started to give the most general theory. The final step is to incorporate resonant absorption into the most general theory. The potential used by Brillouin Energy can be used to calculate the transmission coefficient using the theory of note 229(3). Do they write down this potential anywhere? If so it can be used directly in note 229(3) to compute T…. (see website for more)


  • georgehants

    Hank Mills
    September 28th, 2012 at 11:25 AM
    Hello Andrea,
    Would it be possible to build an ECAT in which the volume of the reactor core (and therefore the pressure and temperature) could be modulated to help control a self sustaining system? For example, what if you had a hydraulically powered piston that would normally limit the volume of the reactor core, but when certain dangerous conditions are detected it could be activated and increase the volume of the reactor. By increasing the volume the hydrogen pressure would drop along with the temperature of the gas in the cylinder. Each cylinder would need to be made longer to allow for the gas to have space to expand when the piston retracts, but it seems like it would be a decent trade off to eliminate the drive.
    Andrea Rossi
    September 28th, 2012 at 11:50 AM
    Dear Hank Mills:
    No, that configuration is not possible, so far.

    • Jim Johnson

      (I appreciate the following may not apply to current eCat technology).

      The EPRI report seems to confirm that the reaction sites are nano-scale. This further supports the approach of creating reaction materials that are metal “dots” embedded flush in temperature resistant ceramic. George’s idea inspired the thought of a thin plate of such such material, exposed to a thin chamber or media that provides the hydrogen, with a retractable gas tight cover over the reaction material. When the cover is pulled back, more reaction material is exposed to the hydrogen, producing more energy. This may not be elegant, and sounds a little like damping rods in fission reactors, however, maybe prompts additional thoughts.

    • Thinksforself

      All you would really need is a hole in the side of the reactor core piped over to an external piston. It would give the pressure control Hank is seeking without significantly changing or adding complexity to the reactor itself.

  • GreenWin

    “A golden path toward a sustainable energy future?”

    The publication of this report serves two important functions in the tale of commercial LENR. The first is to mark a re-entry of EPRI into the cold fusion research arena. The last official (that I found) EPRI publication dealing with LENR/cold fusion was in 1995. EPRI and partner the American Nuclear Society jointly published “A Dialogue on Chemically Induced Nuclear Effects: A Guide for the Perplexed About Cold Fusion,” by Nate Hoffman. The forward was written by EPRI’s Executive Scientist, Thomas R. Schneider.

    Jed Rothwell reviewed this EPRI/ANS publication pointing out its near complete censorship of the anomalous heat effect.

    “Schneider has been a known behind-the-scenes bitter opponent of cold fusion for many years, but he must have been aware of McKubre’s numerous publications over the years, and he must have realized that McKubre’s data contradicts Hoffman’s conclusions… Schneider and Hoffman want to present a one-sided picture. They want to prove that all positive results are due to ‘an unidentified error or artifact,’ as Schneider puts it.”

    Schneider is no longer at EPRI (now at Strategic Energy Analysis Center) and author Hoffman died in 2008. MIT’s Eugene Mallove adds this to Rothwell’s review of the EPRI/ANS book:

    “Moreover, why did this book appear without key [gamma, x-ray, spectra]data for which Schneider at EPRI provided the funding? This funding derives ultimately from American electric utility customers, since it is they who contribute to the research of EPRI. Are the American people entitled to know that their utility bills have paid for a possible golden path toward a sustainable energy future?”


    The second, is that EPRI has once again funded a study of CF/LENR – and that is a step forward. As Brian Ahern recommends further research into Ni+H, EPRI is strongly encouraged to do so. Our thanks to Jed Rothwell and the late Gene Mallove for their illuminating review. This time it is up to the LENR research community to prevent bias, censorship, and publishing chicanery.

    • Jim Johnson

      Nice post. Also, my understanding is that EPRI is a integral part of the mainstream electrical power industry, certainly not remotely light weight or fringe. Their release of this study could be on the order of the OilPrice newsletter article on LENR in terms of acknowledgement from the main stream energy industry.

  • John

    I wish that they did a mass spectroscopy test of the powder after the test had finished.

    • Ged

      It’s the gas that should be given an atomic absorption test. But the lattice would be interesting too.

  • Ivone Martin FitzGerald


    In one experiment, researchers used 10-nm nickel powder from
    Quantum Sphere Corp. The inner RTD was 208oC hotter than the
    outer RTD (533oC versus 325oC) and represents roughly ~ 21 watts
    from 5 grams of nanopowder, based on the calibration. The powder
    maintained this rate of thermal power output for a period of five days
    when it was terminated for evaluation. There was no sign of
    degradation of the power output. Researchers, however, were not
    able to replicate this final experiment due to limited project funding.


    We now have facts.

    1) Nanotech is part of it. Size 10 nm or less for the nickel particles, which is comparable with Intel’s 22 nm grooves for their chips. This radically increases surface area for the dry gas loading.

    2) No additives or “Catalysts”. Yes, you Rossi. That is a smokescreen to slow down potential competitors. Well you’re rumbled.

    3) A mass/energy ratio of 21 watts/5 grams, or 4.2 watts/gram. This scales to a half kilo mass of nickel nanopowder supplying 2100 watts, sufficient to boil a kettle, or a 25 kilo mass supplying 105000 watts, sufficient for a red hot cylinder of the size seen in Rossi’s photo.

    4) A rectified AC mains current to kick off the reaction. Brillouin may use a DC current with a smaller AC component that can speed up the initial LENR reaction. Getting the reaction to stop and cool down might be tricky, though. Brillouin claims to have this solved.

    So…why wait for Rossi? I don’t have the means or the technical skill, but perhaps somebody can persuade their University Physics department or school?

    • Good observations! I am not waiting for Rossi 🙂

    • Morgan

      Nanotech is key. Must be 15 nm or below. The catalysts is just potassium hydrate. When heated to certain temperature hydrogen is released

      • Peter_Roe

        Hydrides rather than hydrates I think. But what makes you sure that it must be potassium hydride? Any alkali metal hydride from lithium upwards would be a candidate, and there are many other possible hydrogen ‘donors’ such as the various metal borohydrides.

    • Ged

      1) There definitely seems to be a proper size range for the nickel particles. If that best size is 10 nm is unknown. However, hydrogen will largely penetrate the first 10 micrometers of a nickel lattice in a timely manner (if I remember right), so diameters up to 10 um should be just as effective, or more or less so, as 10 nm.

      2) Rossi’s output per gram of material is orders of magnitude above this research’s results. While you’re right that a catalyst is not necessary for a reaction (no catalyst is ever required to make a reaction possible; catalysts by definition just speed up or make easier already possible reactions), a catalyst seems to vastly increase the rate of reaction. That catalyst is likely oxides of some sort, but could be RF or electrical stimulation, or something unknown to us yet.

      3) See 2) above. The low energy to gram ratio is due to the lack of catalysis of the reaction. However, it could be due to a lack of other details, such as the small particles (other research has suggested nano particles can actually hinder the reaction), the geometry of the reactor, and so forth.

      4) It seems that heating from any method is what’s required to overcome the barrier of activation energy for the reaction. Be it AC or DC or natural gas. Could be, however, that methods like AC power have other side effects beneficial to the reaction (electrical phase stimulation, i.e. catalysis).

      There are many, many parties in the LENR game, successfully getting it to work. The claim to fame for Rossi is simply that his is working so well (supposedly); above and beyond what anyone else is cooking up. Celani/Brillouin are second place, but getting there; and the universities/research institutes are mainly just interested in seeing how this is working, and so not optimizing for power out.

      • Bruno

        Hi, Ged. Regarding your point #3 “The low energy to gram ratio is due to the lack of catalysis of the reaction.” Rossi might be claiming higher, but I wouldn’t exactly call 4.2 watts/gram to be a low energy output. Assuming that you could pull out the heat as fast as it’s being produced (The geometry might not be workable if you have to deposit that 8 kg of nano-powder on a huge (ie heavy & bulky) substrate to ensure surface area), 8 kg of nano-powder would produce 8000 x 4.2 = 33,600W = 33.6 KW. At 3214 BTU/kw-hr, that’s 108,000 BTU/hr, enough to heat an average sized American home on a cold winter day. I’d settle for that any day of the week.

        • Ged

          Haha, you’re absolutely right! It’s all relative when I say “low”. It is just “low” in regards to Rossi’s output data, that is all.

          One thing that isn’t taken into account is longevity. For instance, a “lower” power reaction like the one from this research should last a lot longer than the “higher” power per gram reaction of Rossi’s, as the reactants are used up slower. But that is just six of one, half dozen of another.

      • Ivan_Cev

        Hi Ged, are you able to some how comment the difference between the NAE of storms and Celani and the Nano powder of Nickel.
        One refers to the Area, the other to the imperfections and cracks of the surface.

    • Andrew Macleod

      #2 is questionable. The ecat produces much more heat with less fuel….. I know a catylist isn’t required but it boosts the output to a much higher level.

      Assuming we have been told the truth of course.

    • Jon

      Celani did pretreat the alloy with colloidal silica, which likely increased the nuclear active enviorements ( if you believe Ed storms theory ).

      Also, there is a theory worked on by Frank Znidarsic which specifies the optimal agitation for a lenr reaction… Here is the paper http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875389211006092 … I don’t understand the theory per than it recommends agitating at 10^6 m/s at which the speed of phonon within the nucleus and the speed of the photon within the electron structure allows energy to optimally flow… The speed was first observed directly from lenr experiments, and then the theory was developed from the insight to model the atom as a capacitor….

      I’m no physicists or chemists, but his is the only theory I know which recommends a specific agitation.

  • freethinker

    Being in pessimistic mode today:

    Note the disclaimer :


    I know its a standard disclaimer but still, they can walk away if they like …

    “We never endorsed that. We never recommended that. ”

    But they did sponsor or co-sponsor it, right? 🙂

    • barty

      They, as a famous company, agreed that LENR isn’t pseudo-science!
      That’s an important step!

    • Ged

      I love that “not NECESSARILY” part. It’s so deliciously vague. That’s liability speak for you!

  • barty

    The link to the report isn’t working for me?
    Maybe it’s cookie related.

  • daniel maris

    Mildly interesting, but hardly the stuff of Nobel Prizes…