Rossi ‘Very Satisifed’ with Ongoing Testing

Andrea Rossi is reporting that tests of the hot cat are ongoing, and that so far he is very pleased with the results. September 21 was apparently an important day in this testing regimen, as Ross described on the Journal of Nuclear Physics:

The test of today has been a particular session, in the context of the 4 month work of validation of the Hot Cat, because today we made important modifications : the reactor is now very different from the prototype we talked about in Zurich.

It has no more the internal cylinder, has different dimensions, has many modifications: I hoped to get improvements in the minimum COP. We also made an electric measurement with new experts, to review the work made before, with new instruments. In the final report we will describe in particular the important work of today, that for now is under NDA.

I am very satisfied. First, because the measurements have confirmed that the work made up to now has given resulkts very close to the ones obtained after a peer reviewing, second because my modifications have improved the Hot Cat. The test began this morning at 7 a.m., is finished few minutes ago at 22,30 .

Said this I have the duty to repeat that the tests are going on, will continue, we are not ready to give final results. We are still in R&D, we still have not a Hot Cat ready for the market. All the data we got are stioll subject to variations.

One of the goals of this new design, then, was to increase the minimum COP. The paper presented in Zurich showed a COP of somewhere around 2.5 (calculated very conservatively), and from this report it appears that may have been exceeded. There is no mention of whether there was self-sustain involved in this test — that was not involved in the report presented at Zurich.

Rossi states here that the measurements from the new tests confirm those of old tests — probably mentioned to try and dispel doubts raised by the press release of Hydro Fusion, which stated tests on the Hot Cat performed by their agent did not demonstrate that any excess heat was generated.

Rossi also mentions that these tests are “both validation and development tests: the two tasks intertwine between themselves, because during the tests we learn, react, modify.” We don’t know who else is involved in this testing process, but it sounds like at some point a report of this process will be published.

  • Claes

    New days, new “Rossi says”! 🙂

    • captain

      Ah ah ah … Claes spitted his sentence… ah ah ah

      • Claes

        I just found it so funny that everybody was screaming for a 3rd party validation. Then a bunch of people came down from the Swedish governmental testing agency, with state-of-the-art measuring equipment and people with decades of experience. They test it and find that Rossi uses the wrong type of meter. Not anything complicated – it’s just the wrong type. End of story.

        What happens? It takes 2-3 days before everybody has managed to convince themselves that Rossi is probably right and this agency is probably wrong. Not only that: bad people are being mean to Rossi!

        I’m wondering precisely who they would want to come and test it? The agency that the entire industry of Sweden is trusting (Volvo, ABB, Bofors, Ericsson you name it) obviously isn’t trustworthy compared to Rossi.

        Then Rossi keeps sayin this and that. I mean I’m not sure he doesn’t have anything but I get worried that he doesn’t react constructively and that there is a cult dynamics around him.

        • Renzo

          Please could you tell me where can I download the paper from the swedish team explaining their procedure? Have you also read the third-party report by eng. Fabio Penon?
          So why don’t you go trolling on another place?

          • Claes

            Yes, and what do YOU know? Their procedure – I would think – would be regulated professionally since they were there in their professional capacities. That’s my guess – what’s you guess?

            But to clarify. I’m not a sceptic of LENR, and even if I’ve downgraded my optimism about Rossi somewhat, I think he probably does have something. My main worries is not that he’s a scam: I don’t think that he is. My worries is that he brushes this off too easily. I’m getting worried that he’s sloppy.

            If he were it wouldn’t surprise me. Inventors are the best people for refining their inventions. Refinement and invention is quite different and takes different personalities.

            It seems to me that the low-temperature version is more promising – that’s the one that made me believe in this. In fact I have no idea why he would move beyond it at this time. My guess is that he enjoys coming up with new things and can’t motivate himself as soon as he thinks that he’s achieved what’s important. But that’s just my guess – we’re all guessing quite a lot in here.

            By the way – my impression is that the forum should be for people with an open mind. But people interpret that differently for sure! If it means that it is only for applauding every word of Rossi’s, please tell me and I’ll never come here again, because then it’s completely barren.

            • Claes

              “inventors are NOT the best people for…” – that’s how it should read.

        • captain

          It seems to me that U have not CAREFULLY read Rossi’s statement about the Swedish tester: what he has done, how long has he tested the E-Cat, how was E-Cat running at that time, still in a R&D status, not running at full power…a.s.o.

          This is not a blog/forum for skeptics and/or non believers in Rossi’s E-Cat tech.

          And when I say this, I think only to a few things:

          – that Rossi, for validation/certification purposes is giving only ‘quiet, very quiet’ E-Cats… that means that for him there’s no prob at all to increase the COP say up to 10 or more, without mentioning 20 or 50!

          – since Rossi is having tough times in having his ‘simple’ domestic E-Cat approved by USPTO and/or UL and his patents/brevets IP recognized, he likes not to put very up the performance of his hot tiger.

          – for people that so far have not yet understood the great potential of an infinite power thermal/Electric plant, finally working in a self sustain mode, is better to move to other forums, believe me. With Siemens or without Siemens, with Swedes or without them, it doesn’t matter.

          In other posts I’ve written that CF speaks Italian, and it’s true: Italian forums are very rare, but with intelligent bloggers, that are well aware of Rossi’s potential. In cobraf forum Q&A are put down in a cryptic way, say by Cures,Nevanlinna,Lmwillys and others…and sometimes it’s difficult to understand what they’re saying also for technicians (I’m not at all). However pleasant to read in some way.

          Here we hear very very often the same music by certain players: and that’s is not so pleasant.
          However here there are too many questions put to Rossi, asking for a quick reply, and this is not a good thing.

          My sincere hope is that Rossi could remain much more silent to do better his hard job.

          And my sincere hope is also that very very soon another LENR working device could be shown working from another competitor, so to let Rossi work in peace.

          • captain

            add to my post:

            For people not understanding that Rossi’s hot tiger is a Ferrari made now running like a tortoise, it’s only wasted time.

        • GreenWin

          Heh heh… everyone makes mistakes, right??

        • Max S

          Claes, fully agree with you.
          We have to assume that in the meantime these measurements at doubt have been repeated as it should have been done immediatetly. This can be done in one day.
          If Rossi was right why was there still no update and announcement by him or by hydrofusion ?

        • timycelyn

          “….with state-of-the-art measuring equipment and people with decades of experience. ”

          From what has come out subsequently on these tests if that kit was “State of the Art” then the art involved was pottery. Wrong test using the wrong kit in the wrong way. Otherwise just fine….

          • GreenWin

            And where is the Swedish specialist report? Signed by who? Where’s the Data? Equipment specs? Experimental methodology? Blank run? Independent validation?

            There is none??

  • georgehants

    Koen Vandewalle
    September 22nd, 2012 at 5:41 PM
    Andrea,
    Does the fact that transmutation is only a side effect make that the reactors can last much much longer than 6 months ? Near infinity ?
    Only Hydrogen needs to be added from time to time because of the diffusion ?
    Kind Regards
    Koen
    —-
    Andrea Rossi
    September 23rd, 2012 at 3:14 AM
    Dear Koen Vandewalle:
    We still depend on the Einstein equation, from which derives that 1 g of mass is worth 23 thousand MWh. We have anyway to change the charges every 6 months, for many reasons and for safety.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Dear Hank Mills:
    The high percentage of Cu found 2 years ago was probably due to impurities and to the difficulty to take, at those quantities, samples actually representative of the mass.
    Let me also return to the issue of the catalysts, because I have been advised ( see the comment of Monti) that it has been misunderstood the difference between a chemical catalyst and a chemical product that in our case acts as a “catalyst”. In the first case we have a chemical reaction, catalyzed from some chemical product. In our case we have a chemical product that acts as a “catalyst” of our process, which is not chemical; as a matter of fact, the definition “catalyst” is anomalous in our case, it is used in its original semantic meaning, not in the meaning that it normally has in chemical reactions.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Peter_Roe

      10% copper an ‘impurity’??? Where does he buy his nickel – from the local scrap metal dealer, who makes it by filing the nickel plating off old taps? Or maybe he just grinds up old ‘silver’ coins? If the sample was real, and the copper was there, it was there for a reason. I think we’re being gently moved along here.

      • AB

        …and the reason is that NiCu alloys are better than palladium or nickel for dissociating molecular hydrogen into atomic hydrogen.

        • Peter_Roe

          Exactly. Maybe AR thinks he’s given away a tad too much in the past and is trying to stuff the genie back into its bottle!

          • Hank Mills

            I’m also wondering if a copper nickel allow is used. Or at least copper mixed in the nickel somehow.

    • Max S

      “due to impurities and to the difficulty to take, at those quantities, samples actually representative of the mass”
      Is he saying he has taken only one sample and finds out now ? LOL

  • Peter_Roe

    Off topic:

    Change.org are running a petition to bring cold fusion to the attention of Obama and other world leaders. I would assume that most have already been advised, even if many probably don’t understand what they have been told, or have been fed lies by lobbyists, but there it is. The petition is not doing very well, and may indicate that the MSM blackout is succeeding in its purpose, or simply that people feel (as I do) that involving politicians would not be helpful, and in fact could be damaging.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/cold-fusion-renewable-energy?utm_source=supporter_message&utm_medium=email

    • GreenWin

      Peter, I think 99% politicians are beholden to manipulative forces (excepting a very few.) As we have seen for at least a century, trouble-making politicians are quickly silenced via scandal or threat to family. They are simple humans who will not jeopardize the lives of their children, to blow whistles or make waves.

      So, the burden falls upon those relatively immune to threat. Those at end of life who generally lose all fear, those without families, and those of unassailable moral conviction. These people do exist and work behind scenes, far from the mainstream, and with extraordinary guidance. We may never know their names, but I guarantee you they exist, they are dedicated, and will prevail.

      • zero

        “So the burden…”

        Quote of the year.

      • Peter_Roe

        GW, Regarding politicos, I’m sure that is right, and that’s the reason I hope they continue to ignore the topic. As to the ‘opposition’ I have no knowledge of this, but sincerely hope that it is as you say. Such people are urgently needed in many areas of governance and planning.

  • georgehants

    Pleasant to see things moving on a little, after most of science for 60 years has tried to hide the fact that everything is Quantum, some of them are waking up and actually doing science.
    Most people talk about Cold Fusion in classical terms, but it is of course like everything a Quantum effect.
    We are working from the bottom up, because we have no knowledge of the higher reality to be able to work from the top down where such things as Cold Fusion could be predicted from the undiscovered Quantum reality.
    As science begins to understand, beyond the limited classical endeavors handed to them on a plate by brilliant scientists a century plus ago, there is an unknown World of Wonder and Mystery that every person on the planet should be aware of, to enjoy and understand that life is not nuts and bolts and steam engines, but a deep miracle of interlocking phenomenon that we have hardly scratched the surface of.
    It is a Fact that in all Quantum events the mind of the experimenter will effect the result of what is observed.
    Time again for science to stand up, stop cowering behind reductionist, outdated Dogma and do some real bloody science.
    —–
    A Quantum leap for UW
    “What we’re doing here is decoding the rules and laws of the universe.” – RIM co-founder Mike Lazaridis.”
    Eric Drozd Sep 21, 2012 16:22:25 PM
    It’s being called the site of future innovation in quantum information and nanotechnology. The curtain has been lifted on the Mike and Ophelia Lazaridis Quantum-Nano Centre at the University of Waterloo.
    “These kinds of scientific advances spot entrepreneurs, provide jobs, and literally transform communities and society. It’s developments leading to products, it’s products leading to companies, and it’s companies leading to jobs and enormous wealth”, said Mike Lazaridis Thursday afternoon when speaking to a full room about what he expects to come from the new QNC.
    It’s something that Lazaridis has invested a lot of time and money in. $100 million to be exact. The result – a $160 million, 285, 000-square-foot facility that will give researchers the tools and collaborative opportunities they need to perform groundbreaking experiments, investigate new processes and materials, and build innovative technologies.
    “I believe the work that will be done here will transform the way we work, live, and play.”
    Lazaridis predicts that the new centre will discover and innovate, just as The Bell Labs did, which lead to companies that created Silicon Valley in California. Lazaridis says Waterloo Region will become known as the Quantum Valley.
    Dr. Stephen Hawking was on hand among other scientists, local politicians including newly elected K-W NDP MPP Catherine Fife, as well as business and community leaders.
    http://www.570news.com/news/local/article/404156–a-quantum-leap-for-uw

    • Gerrit

      quantum – nano ?

      Sounds like they are definitely going to run into LENRs unless they do their utmost best to avoid that.

      Maybe they should start with examining the groundbreaking Reifenschweiler effect.

      • georgehants

        Gerrit, re your “Reifenschweiler effect”, as usual the incompetence of science was revealed.
        It was reported in amazement that —
        “although no satisfactory explanation was found, R. was allowed to publish it” —-
        As if publishing observed Evidence without having an explanation was a criminal offense.

        • Gerrit

          in 1967 KC Jordan, BC Blanke, WA Dudley, published “Half-life of tritium” in J Inorg Nucl Chem 29:2129-2131.

          Apart from measuring the half life of Tritium they also noted that there were anomalies (“5 sigma – quite detectable”) in the decay rate. They offered no explanation for the anomaly. Their measurement was one of many that was mentioned in the recent work “Comprehensive Review and Critical Evaluation of the Half-Life of Tritium” [J. Res. Natl. Inst. Stand. Technol. 105, 541 (2000)], but the anomaly was not mentioned. (but the paper was used nevertheless, even when it had offered an unexplained anomaly)

          The anomaly was deemed not important in the 2000 paper, because it was not the purpose of that review paper.

          Ignorants (ie mainstream science) will now be able to claim that the decay rate of tritium is well established and that in the 2000 review paper no anomalies are mentioned, thus implying that they are not noteworthy, were never reproduced and must be caused by artifacts.

          This is how science works. When you pinpoint to problems like this the answer will be that there is simply not enough money to investigate everything, which is undeniably true and that an investigation in such anomaly will not lead anywhere and goes against well established facts.

          Why was the Reifenschweiler effect never reproduced ? Because nobody thought it was important enough.

    • GreenWin

      Congratulations Mike and Ophelia. What a brilliant way to return your good fortune! We look forward to many new and uplifting innovations from your research center.

  • Roger Bird

    I am hanging in there since I know that LENR and LENR-on-steroids is real. But it seems to me that all that data that you guys talked about in response to my being disappointed in Rossi comes through Rossi, unless I am mistaken, and God knows that I want to be mistaken. Even my 13 year old asked, “Daddy, what happened to Rossi?”. When we get ANYTHING about Rossi that is 3rd party, then I will be enthused about Rossi again. Perhaps I missed it. I am begging to be corrected.

    • GreenWin

      Roger, I think we all share your frustration to an extent. The SGS Certification of safe operation tells me there is a least one known organization that has witnessed e-cat operation in its full 1MW output mode. They have a huge reputation to protect and would not have signed off on this Cert had they not done their job.

      Further, if we are to subscribe as George H does to the universal understanding of observer-mitigated evidence, it behooves those who imagine a better world, to… imagine a better world. And thereby, bring it into being. From your past posts, you have just such an imagination. Even without steroidal doping!

  • GreenWin

    Here’s the latest from Dr. George Miley and Lenuco. He seems to get up to 70 COP on some of his runs – but has trouble keeping the catalyst from burning out.

    http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2012/09/21/george-miley-working-3kw-30kw-lenr-designs/

  • kwhilborn

    Next month, next month, next month, October, next month, next October, next month, next month, sigh. Any idea on when this will be proven once and for all. I believe, but as soon as this is verified Rossi can license trillions of dollars worth and automotive companies etc can spend billions adapting and improving. Just prove it and wait for the gold to pile up. I see no need for Rossi to perfect this. He has applied for the patents ahead of others so he should win the patent races..

    WHEN?
    I already know.
    Next Month.

    • Voodoo

      I absloutely agree.

      – Rosii never will have the capacity to satisfied worldwide demand for 30-50 miilion LENR devices per year, including automotive demand somewhere around 100 million per year

      – maximalization earnings for Rossi is: show functioning devices, show 5 seals from 5 uiversities and TUV tests, then sell thousands licenses to everyone, who have 1500 engineers for perfection for engine/automotive/etc purposes

      – with Rossi style and conception whole world take hit of additional hundreds billions economic losses

      This is absolutely insane. His economic/political advisers are whether totally Luciferian or some military.

      Mr. Rossi ! You may maximalized your earnings by selling thousands licenses, not by promises of publication of tests in non-existent magazines !!

  • Torbjörn

    Regarding the high temperature E-Cat report.

    According to two guys at a forum, the measurement error between a true RMS and a none true RMS at maximum input power, (3,5 kW,) was a factor of 1,65. That would mean around 5,8 kW input power, which is not enough to explain the measured thermal power of 8,4 kW.

    http://www.energikatalysatorn.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=506&start=60#p22764

    • Ivan_cev

      This is not completely true, if you have the power source as high frequency spikes then both meters will fail as they are build for permanent state not transitory. then you will have to make heavy use of filters (reactors) to eliminate spikes from the instruments, depending on the filter there will still remain some small harmonics but not too influential.
      The trick here is to filter, see Abundo power supply if you need more illustration.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Also, an indendent proof of excess power was the heat-after-death, i.e. heat output after turning the input off. The integrated infrared output energy after turning input off was several times larger than the thermal energy inside the reactor computed from the measured temperature difference and the heat capacity. The heat capacity of the reactor is relatively well known because the device’s massive parts were analysed and weighed.

      It seems that if one wants to explain the results completely without anomalous heat production, one has to assume that both input and output were measured wrong and with accidental mutual agreement during the main phase. Although I am not sure if one could get things to match even then.

      • Peter_Roe

        In addition I would guess that an object of that shape might be shedding a very considerable amount of heat in the form of convection (perhaps in the order of a couple of kilowatts) which was disregarded for the test, along with heat radiating axially from the interior pipe.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        Correction to own comment: by “accidental mutual agreement during the main phase” I rather mean agreement of the “COP” during the main phase and the heat-after-death. This is consistent with the anomalous process being mainly thermally driven, and the neglected convection should affect both phases with a more or less similar correction factor.

  • artefact

    On JONP:

    Andrea Rossi
    September 22nd, 2012 at 2:50 PM
    Dear Hank Mills:
    The catalysts we use are chemical products, but the action they make is confidential. I understand you can be confused, I should be the same in your position, but until I cannot disclose the theory and process I must keep this information under cover.
    Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Kim G. Patterson

      I feel as if the chemical may impart a magnetic
      effect to the process in some way.

      Respect
      Kim

    • shamrock77

      .. a honest reply from Rossi that we all can appreciate at this point, we will just have to wait this out a couple of months more.

      • dsm2

        Hmmm

        Don’t you mean years more ?

        DSM

    • Peter_Roe

      “The catalysts we use are chemical products”

      This is not particularly surprising, as the simple addition of a chemical element such as copper dust would not provide the level of integration that is probably required. Presumably addition of a (nucleonic) ‘catalyst’ is the nickel powder pretreatment, which may involve a copper salt, if a copper deposition is needed to ionise hydrogen at the surface of the particles.

      Other candidates might be acids and sodium silicate (Celani’s wire pre-treatment, although these would not seem to be catalysts in any true sense) or potassium carbonate, cited by several experimenters (although the latter is probably only useful in ‘wet’ electrolytic CF systems).

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        In Celani’s SEM images one saw how a heat treatment can strongly modify the microscale surface morphology. This suggests that if the E-cat works for 6 months in over 1000 C temperature, it must somehow be able to regenerate its magic nanostructure. Maybe a catalyst plays such a role. For example it could be some alloyant which takes nickel atom’s place in the matrix, but is larger or smaller then nickel so that it distorts the matrix locally, thus creating narrow spaces for hydrogen atoms to mingle.

        • Peter_Roe

          Or perhaps some alloyed element that slowly ‘evaporates’ from the nickel at high temperatures, leaving fresh NA sites exposed?

          These ideas still leave open the question of what creates a continuous supply of ionised H though. It’s possible of course that the hydrogen ‘donor’ – presumably a light-metal hydride – is somehow deposited directly onto the nickel particles so that ‘nascent’ hydrogen ions resulting from thermal decomposition are directly available to the nickel for gas loading. In this case, no ionisation ‘catalyst’ would be necessary.

      • Max S

        The chemcial industry conducts on large scale catalytic hydogenations using Ni and Ni/Cu alloys, under H2 pressure and elevated temperatures, and never large excess heat effects had been reported.
        Therefore it is not only theoretically very unlikely that Cu could be a catalyst to initiate any nuclear reactions. There must be something else (suppose the effect is real).

        • Peter_Roe

          That is rather curious, as I commented at 10:22pm. As you say, there must be other factors, unless observations indicating anomalous heat have been routinely discarded as ‘artefacts’.

          btw, I wasn’t suggesting that copper is acting as a nucleonic ‘catalyst’, only that it is involved in promoting the ionisation of hydrogen in Rossi’s hot cat, as it supposedly does in the Celani apparatus.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    There is a new interview to Rossi here (with a video), any Italian willing to translate?

    http://radio.rcdc.it/archives/fusione-fredda-andrea-rossi-e-il-sogno-di-tesla-105847/

    • Red5goahead

      There aren’t no meaningful news in this partial interview.
      Maybe it’s worth to wait the fully one.

      • Luca Salvarani

        I can confirm Red5: here there aren’t new elements but this is only a preview…. maybe in the full interview… The only “news” is Rossi admits that his previous statement according to which all energy sources will integrate is “politically correct”… “The reality is that if e-cat will be diveloped there would really be a “revolution” (officially said)… so all other sources would be displaced (not said this officially but his words and his mimic was unmistakeable)

        • Peter_Roe

          That is a very interesting development. If Rossi feels that he can begin to take the gloves off, he must be either feeling very confident, or he knows that the nuclear and fossil energy people are not fooled for a second by ‘we can all get along together’. Clearly that was never the case.

          • GreenWin

            That may be the case now Peter. Though the fossil people will only lose by attempting to maintain the status quo. Further attempts at suppression guarantees evidence of complicity will go public. Then, if the justice system does not correct their actions, perturbed citizens might.

            Getting on board the “energy abundance train” now, buys a modicum of immunity against past misdeeds. Tickets anyone?

            • Peter_Roe

              Yes, if the ‘fossil burners’ have any sense, they’ll go along with converting their existing kit. Coal burners are doomed anyway by the green evangelists (aka ‘alternative energy’ sector) and their cronies in government, so they should be in a hurry to look at any CF alternatives.

              However, the multi-trillion dollar nuclear industry will be truly bu**ered by CF, and in addition, left with billions of dollars of decommissioning and disposal obligations. Of course these will never be met, as the nuclear sectors of the multinationals will be (and already are being) hived off as ‘free standing’ companies that will just declare bankruptcy at an opportune moment, leaving guv’mints holding their babies.

  • http://www.low-energy.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

    There is a new method to produce LENRs with hydrogen and cobalt instead nickle or palladium:

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxvaGlvdG9pb3xneDpjZGMzM2VjNGQwY2ExZDc&pli=1

    It seems it has a higher efficiency

    • Ged

      The Zeocat! Now that is a name. I’ll have to chew on this a bit to dissect its meaning and validity.

      Great find and thanks for sharing!

    • Ged

      The writing and style may be pretty basic, but it’s a very good effort. They attempted blank runs, which is perfect methodology, and they have a lot of pictures. Unfortunately, their results don’t seem that statistically different from the controls. They may be, but there’s a lot of variance and very small signal, so with this data alone, I cannot say. That’s just my interpretation/analysis, so others may correct me if wrong.

      I am also unsure of this Pure-Heat-Pressure-Vent method they are using, and what complications it may add.

      It’s a good effort though. Definitely on the right track of the sort of activity we’d like to see.

      • daniel maris

        So are you saying that haven’t achieved a COP greater than 1?

        • http://www.low-energy.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

          Seems they get 70 watt MORE output than input.

      • GreenWin

        This is significant. Using a variety of “recipes” these experiments have produced over-unity energy – from the same basic idea developed by Patterson and later George Miley.

    • Zvibenyosef

      Thanks for posting this fascinating article. This is yet another proof of the LENR concept. The AMHD mode of operation seems to be very promising, resulting a very consistent and reproducible exothermic effect. Their experiment which continued for over a week at over 70 degrees above null was particularly impressive. Another very fascinating aspect of their work was the unexpected endothermic effect obtained with some metals. I wonder what is going on there? This research lends more credibility to LENR and is yet another indication that we are on the verge of an energy breakthrough.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        Finding an efficient endothermic nuclear reaction would be very useful for applications, because coupled with an exothermic reactor it could enable an electric generator which produces zero waste heat. It would be enabling tech for high power spacecraft, for example.

        • Peter_Roe

          An endothermic CF beer cooler would be handy, too!

      • Peter_Roe

        What is becoming more and more obvious is that this phenomenon (metal mediated hydrogen fusion) has been right under our noses for decades. With all the experiments that have taken place to find metallic catalysts for various hydrogenation processes it is very difficult to see how it could apparently have been missed for so long.

        • georgehants

          Peter, my reply to Gerrit,above, maybe gives your answer —
          It was reported in amazement that —
          “although no satisfactory explanation was found, R. was allowed to publish it” —-
          If science is so dumb that it discourages publication of observed Evidence because no cause can be given, then what can one expect.
          The “scientific method” and those that blindly follow it have much to answer for.

          • Peter_Roe

            George – yes that publication is actually quite surprising, against the background of the current way in which research is conducted. In the dim and distant days when I worked in a lab it was quite commonplace to publish details of ‘mystery’ observations (at least it was in molecular biology) in the hope that someone else would come up with further related info or possibly even an explanation). Perhaps this is a glimmer of things drifting back that way. Or more likely it was just an oversight.

  • Gerrit

    I will be very satisfied when Hydro Fusion publishes a press release stating that they have performed a new measurement on the hot cat and the results where all okay and that they are best friends forever with Rossi again.

    • http://www.low-energy.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

      +1 🙂

    • GreenWin

      It may already have happened – but not yet publicized.

  • Roger Bird

    I am NOT satisfied with the on-going testing. I have not even been allowed to SEE the on-going testing. That is the very definition of “NOT satisfied with the on-going testing.”

    • Ged

      Oh gees, this every time? People complain and complain about that, and then we get a report released. And then testing continues and people complain again that they aren’t seeing the new testing which will be released in due time too.

      Gees. I don’t mean to unload on you in particular, but really, are people still five years old, unable to have patience in the toy store? It -will be released-, just as the former report was, just as the SGS cert was. Relax guys show some patience. So far it has always been rewarded.

      • Roger Bird

        Ged, I have not been satisfied with Rossi for at least 6 months since when we stop getting anything other than hot air from him. I am like a 6 year old scientist who requires proof for claims. Otherwise I am in agnostic limbo.

        • Ged

          Nothing but air? The Zurich report with raw data you could analyze yourself, presentations, and Q&A panel are “air”? The SGS Certificate is “air”?

          I -am- a peer-review published scientist. We’ve been given plenty of information for anyone who is willing to evaluate it. So, I think you might be coming across as disingenuous, or just missing out on some of the recent activity. Nor do we have any claim or right to “SEE” the ongoing testing R&D, that is arrogant sounding. Intel would never show you their ongoing testing on their new Hanswell processor, nor would GE their new car design process, or the military its new prototype testings.

          And heck, it hasn’t even been a month since Zurich.

          Again, I’m not trying to come down upon you. It’s just… really? Patience is a virtue.

          • Peter_Roe

            Well said – and it needed saying (again).

          • http://www.buildecat.com LCD

            Where is the third pay testing on the classic ecat. Did we just blow by that?

            • Ged

              Seems that was thoroughly pre-empted by the hot cat. I can certainly understand why though. Still, the 1 MW plant testing and validation (which is the classical E-cat) should be out for us soon, if timelines for installing with that company stay on track.

              • Ivan_cev

                That was not a valid third party report. That report had no letter head and no signature, no Eng Association registry number, the measurements have been disputed. As a consequence Rossi have changed the power supply to a variac and changed his measuring instruments.
                He is addressing the issues, but we still need to see the new data.

          • Zvibenyosef

            I agree with you completely, however Roger Birds impatience is a very common reaction. After the public demonstration I announced to my friends a new energy revolution was here. Since them all of them have completely lost interest in the whole thing and doubt Rossi is genuine. Most peple seem to need instant gratification, or they lose interest.

            • Miles

              Not everyone is interested in LENR.

              It would be pretty hard to fake a European forum full of physicists and scientists / academics from Global Universities about LENR!! Rossi needs to get this right, so please people, stop rushing & pushing him for your own personal review. You want an e-Cat, go build one yourself.

          • enoughAlready

            You compare Rossi with Intel?

            Intel was founded by Gordon Moore(origin of Moores Law) and was a renowned chemist and physicist and Robert Noyce(physicist and co-inventor of the integrated circuit). Within 1 year they had built 64bit SRAM which was twice as fast as the nearest competitor. They had a proven track record and have always executed demonstrations to 3rd parties(via non-disclosure agreements…I was involved with one).

            Lets compare that with Rossi…graduated with a Philosophy degree. Started a waste to Oil company that when it collapsed and Rossi was jailed left 70,000 tonnes of toxic waste for the govt to clean up.

            Rossi then starts Leonardo Technologies…says he has a device which would use waste heat to gain generation efficiency…after a successful prototype demonstration he sends 27 full scale devices for testing…19 produce no electrical gain, the remaining units produce 1WATT….not the promised 800-1000 watt.

            So with a negative track record, no verifiable proof,
            repeated published timelines of availability which slip by one after the next Rossi has little if any credibility.

            And answer this….if the secret is in the reaction chamber internals WHY wouldn’t simple verifiable demonstrations be easy to conduct? An empty warehouse, a table for the device to sit on, a gasoline generator to provide the initial power, a measuring device to record output/heat.

            If Rossi provided one LEGITIMATE verified demo billions in capital would become available almost immediately. With this capital he could hire thousands of experts in every related field to speed this to market and prove finally that he was right(oh and at the same time become the richest and most respected man in the world almost overnight).

            Baffling why this site is FULL of apologists who apply the most tortured logic for why Rossi can’t/won’t prove that something special is happening.

            I DO believe there is some unexplained process going on with LENR and there is great potential….but I DON’T believe Rossi is the guy who’s going to deliver on it.

            • LCD

              If Rossi proficed one LEGITIMATE verified demo he would also have 10000 immediate competitors

        • GreenWin

          Dear Roger, is not hot air one goal for the e-cat? And there is already plenty of proof of excess heat in e-cats. And “agnostic limbo” is like “unknowing suspension.” Not a terrible place, but certainly better than the River Styx.

          Hang in Roger. Don’t leave til the miracle happens!

          • Ivan_cev

            This is why we keep login here, You waiting to be right, myself waiting to be wrong.

  • Martin

    Validation is not certification, right? I am kinda confused with these different types of cats and validations.

    • http://www.low-energy.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

      Validation = check if Rossi’s claims are true
      Certification = check if the Device is secure.

      So in my oppinion a Validation is more interesting for us, at the moment.

  • edog

    Hey guys,
    anyone understand Italian? I was wondering if someone could give me a brief rundown of what Mr Abundo is up to?

    Daniele Over at 22passi has some videos pictures and some communications about the latest Athanor/ Hydrobetatron device.. google translate is good but it doesnt work very well on the videos 🙂
    http://www.22passi.blogspot.de/

    I am sorry for my ignorance
    but some help would be extremely welcome!

  • http://www.zazzle.com/energyrevolution Tony McDougall

    AR said “…the measurements have confirmed that the work made up to now has given results very close to the ones obtained after a peer reviewing,…”

    This is the first time I’ve heard AR mention Peer Review! That was my best shot at the establishment on the t-shirt.

    http://www.zazzle.com/energyrevolution
    http://www.21stcenturyenergyrevolution.com.au

    • Ged

      The current validations are to be done by two universities (peer review), and potentially other parties.

  • http://Nil Anton

    The question is when will be in “shop” a device priced at roughly 1000 EURO which will gave out 10kWh of heat/ with electrical input of 200Wh) thru a heat exchanger. (“hot ” side with temperature of inlet/outlet 160/150C on oil or much better water under 6 bar pressure). I think customer not need data about COP need only the device and to had the heat ffrom system. For home users that is the “Saint Graal” burt seems to be another funny story instead o true solution. Best regards,

    Anton.

  • Adrian Ashfield

    guilio, you may not be interested in reading about Rossi’s progress but others are. Suggest you don’t read what Rossi says for a couple of months: just wait until you see a major announcement in the media.

    • H. Hansson

      This story does no balance between claims and proof. When Mr Rossi finally is forced to prove that the stuff work he fails, why?? Because he is surrounded by supporters.. such an environment does not encourage critical thinking and double checking.

      For a long time he have been careless with the information, promises and self-imposed deadlines.. So far only “chatters” (Mr. Rossis own wording) have been produced.. not even a list on licensees have been made available.

      • Redford

        We do have names of german, swiss, italian, australian & swedish licensees.

        We do have a paper by 3 scientist, 2 of them being paid by recognised actor, providing detailed measurements proving a nuclear reaction.

        At a point you have to define criteria and stick to it. What you’re doing now is moving the line each time it’s reached. It tells more about you than about Rossi : you don’t want to make yourself an opinion from the fact, you want to impose a premade opinion regardless of those facts.

        • Ivan_Cev

          names please

  • Italo R.

    People ask for photo and video of running e-cats.
    I think that many are tired of words only…

    • http://www.low-energy.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

      it’s currently under NDA…
      we have to wait until these validation tests aren’t finished.

    • daniel maris

      Yes, it’s odd nothing is shown, given we have the SGS certificate – one concludes there must be SOMETHING there!

    • Ged

      We HAVE seen pictures. Zurich report? People… come on now. Are attention spans -that short-? Do people need to take memory boosting pills or something? Every time we’ve been told we’d get a report, we have. We’ll see this one too -in due time-.

      I don’t mean to sound frustrated, but we’ve seen PLENTY of hot cat pictures. Thermal, visible light, etc. We’ve had leaks, we had official reports. Just… have patience.

      • Peter_Roe

        We seem to need some kind of archive of ‘milestones’ that can be referred to with 1 click, or goldfish syndrome seems to take over depressingly quickly.

        • Ged

          That is a very good idea. Have links to demo vidoes and report pdfs, major news and such, throughout the timeline since ’10 or ’11. Also could be cool to have a comparison between expected time versus actual time of milestones, to give perspective.

          • Omega Z

            Ged

            I’ve had the same thoughts. An easy to access archive of all the Info. Both good & bad. When someone asks for a link for proof, it’s just 1 click away.

            Many of us have spent many hours backtracking to say the least. I have so many tabs it’s hard to find what I’m looking for & sometimes I’ve inadvertently deleted it. Sometimes on purpose only to regret it latter.

            Yes an archive in chronological order with a brief description & links would be great.

            Aside from refreshing our own memory & a place to direct others to, it would be great for the newbies.

            I wonder if Frank would be interested in setting it up if Volunteers would help in the searching & organizing it by eliminating repetitious links & chronicle ordering.

            Just a thought. A big task…

            • admin

              Hi OZ, Ged,

              I am all for creating an archive of important events and milestones. If people would like to volunteer, let me know and I will set up a way for people to collaborate. Probably in Google docs initially. I will need email addresses to allow folks access to the document. I will probably have to restrict access to a limited number of known people to ensure reliability.

              What do you guys think?

        • GreenWin

          “Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.”
          Edgar Allan Poe

  • giulio mucci

    I think that Rossi should be more silent about his work without statements release every alternate day. Even if he is not a scientist but an inventor interested at the market more than at scientific pubblications he should reserve declarations only for real significant results.
    This is what men and women want!

    • Peter_Roe

      He acquired his ‘fan club’ in the early days when he was seeking publicity in order to gain financial support, and now seems to feel some obligation to keep us informed of his progress. I’m sure he has associates who would like to pull his internet plug, but I think it would be a matter of great concern if he now ‘went dark’ like some of the competition.

      • Ged

        It does seem to be a habit of Rossi’s now. I personally like it, and think that sort of interactivity (anyone can ask him questions!) is a good thing more businesses could benefit from adopting. On the other hand… then you get people complaining and whining about not seeing exactly the sort of things they want to see. So, definitely pros/cons no matter what course you take.

        • GreenWin

          A two edged sword probably. It is “open” R&D, generally unheard of in industry. It does keep supporters informed and allows a dialog of sorts that is better, I think, than labor in the dark.

          People need to remember that Rossi owes them nothing. They have not invested, or purchased goods and services from him. Therefore he remarks to share his enthusiasm for what may be a conscious-changing breakthrough for the entire human race.

          No small feet – dare tread here.

        • Omega Z

          Ged

          We also need to Note, That Rossi gets Ideas from his fans. Even if the Idea isn’t workable, It may cause a spark from within that will. Kind of like a Writers block. You may never know what will kick start a new Idea or direction.

    • jacob

      Rossi is a great man and is very clever,and has predicted the interference of the snakes and the puppets a long time ago,I am sure their would be thousands that would silence him ,if they could.
      Mr.Rossi is still free to express himself ,without any gag orders .

      And if it was not for Mr. Rossi ,we would be non the wiser,or may have never heard about Lenr.

      And I appreciate the fact,that he is giving us as much information as he can, considering it is also beneficial for the long term,and If and when the E-cats hit the consumer market in the future,I for one would be confident about buying an E-cat from Leonardo Corp ,would spend a few more dollars in fact,to own an E-cat.

      As for the competition,I don’t know who they are,to me they are like a hole in the wall,and they said nothing at all,did not dare to speak,and are like cowards hiding from negative publicity.

      But Rossi is standing tall against all odds,he has character and personality and appears to be kind ,he has the passion and vision to see it to completion.

      A lot of critics I have seen come and go,due to the fact they were uninformed and strongly believed that Rossi was wrong,and were in disbelief and confused about it all.

      Rossi is a visionary and a leader capable of great things.

      • Adam Lepczak

        Drear Jacob,
        You are reflecting the way in which I feel in 100%. I hope that Mr. Rossi and his corp becomes the most powerful entity in our world and SOON.

      • Peter_Roe

        It would be good if people would try to remember that Andrea Rossi doesn’t owe us onlookers anything, and that every time he answers a question (no matter how obscurely) that this is a gift, not a right.

    • Ged

      People have different styles. Rossi’s is more blog like. While it’s more “real time” on progress, each bit of information is small and incremental. If he did just big releases every 6 months, people would complain about no news (we’ve had those exact complaints before when Rossi was doing the July 16 tests and went mostly silent for a week!).

      It’s completely fine to me, as there’s plenty to analyze in the context of LENR in general, even from his small snipits.

      Just goes to show, you can’t please everyone.

    • Jim Johnson

      Ah, but what does Mr. Rossi want? I believe that like all of us Mr. Rossi wants many things. I believe that one thing that Mr. Rossi values from this site in particular is our faith in him. Upon writing that, I check myself, and find that I am comfortable, no, in fact it make me feel good, to offer that to him.