Rossi: “Not a Chemical Catalyst”

Andrea Rossi made an interesting statement today in response to a question about the secret catalyst which plays such an important role in his E-Cat reaction. Rossi rarely provides any information when asked about this topic, but today he did say something:

Q: The catalyst that you guard so well — is it a catalyst in the chemical sense? That is — changes in rate of a chemical reaction due to the participation of a substance called a catalyst.

A: No, we call it a catalyst, but it is not a chemical catalyst.

I know that many people have been trying to figure out what Rossi’s secrets are, and many substances have been guessed at, and even experimented with. This answer indicates that there is more at play than just simply adding an ingredient to the nickel-hydrogen mix.

  • Joannes Van den Bogaert

    To all “cold fusion” folks,

    Did you read already on the e-Cat Site the article “Cold Fusion Catalyst”
    posted on September 14, 2012 by Admin. What do you think of using hydrides such as potassium hydride yielding negatively charged hydrogen ions (H-) and positively charged potassium ions (K+)? According to common chemistry potassium metal(K) reacts with hydrogen (H) yielding said (H-) ions surmounting the Coulomb barrier of the positively charged Ni nucleus after penetrating its electron shells (see Piantelli US patent application mentioned in the article especially its Fig. 5.

  • kend

    I am not an expert, but would like to get a handle on what I think might be the central issues for generating excess heat——
    Is it not true that if Nickel is ‘prepared correctly’ (i. e. like Celani’s wire, and maybe Rossi’s ecat) , then loaded with hydrogen, then heated to about 400 C that anomalous heat is eventually released?
    Is not this the bare bones minimum ‘secret sauce’?

  • Hank Mills

    To answer someone’s question, I have asked Rossi in the past if the catalyst was one or more chemical elements, and he said they were. I looked for the comments on the JONP but I cannot find them at this time.

    Here is what he said today. I guess in addition to pressure, heat, and RFGs that chemical catalysts are still being used.

    Andrea Rossi
    September 22nd, 2012 at 2:50 PM
    Dear Hank Mills:
    The catalysts we use are chemical products, but the action they make is confidential. I understand you can be confused, I should be the same in your position, but until I cannot disclose the theory and process I must keep this information under cover.
    Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,

    • Omega Z


      Glad you received an answer.

      It could be that a chemical catalyst is used in the preparation of the Nickel. To make it more susceptible or efficient in the process.

      Kind of like Celeni does multiple preheating’s of the wires for his to work.

      • Hank Mills

        It was important that we get this specified, or people would have said Rossi lied all along about having chemical catalysts.

  • georgehants

    From Vortex-1, thank you.

    [Vo]:New and probably very important – the “Reiter effect”
    Jones Beene
    Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:44:43 -0700
    Hats off to Nick !
    Nick Reiter has generously compiled and placed his recent positive thermal
    results with cobalt-hydrogen in a Word doc at the bottom of the documents
    list here:
    Note that this is not high-budget work, and is not yet verified by flow
    calorimetry – but if replicated could be far more important than Celani’s
    recent revelations, for several reasons.
    1) Celani sees thermal gain in the range of 20 watts, Reiter sees
    thermal gain in the range of 70 watts. In both cases COP is not large but
    the excess watt level portends eventual self-power.
    2) Celani depends on an alloy, and long time delay before gain is
    realized. Reiter depends on simple ion deposition of cobalt in zeolite, with
    gain happening much sooner.
    3) The setup, and processing of active material is much simpler – tank
    hydrogen is not needed for Reiter, since a hydride breakdown supplies
    hydrogen. P-in can be external or internal.
    4) Long term results have been seen for both – even in the first effort
    by Reiter.
    5) Both experiments beg for replication with calorimetry (as opposed to
    baseline thermometry), but Nick’s is much simpler and much more robust.
    This is great news – and the “Reiter effect” is most likely a hybrid effect
    of f/H (fractional hydrogen) in a Casimir cavity with a ferromagnetic
    thermal dump (nickel or cobalt).
    I am not speaking for Nick on this theory, and he and Sam may be working on
    a different underlying theory. The results speak for themselves – when

    • Thinksforself

      Very interesting. The only fault I see after a quick read is that the water vapor/steam found during venting may be from the reaction of the Hydrogen in the reactor with striped Oxygen of any oxides present. That would account for some of the exothermic reaction but not likely all of it given the long time span of the experiment. Very promising makes me want to build my own.

  • Thinksforself

    The secret catalyst is likely nothing more than pressure.

    “Increasing the pressure in a gaseous reaction will increase the number of collisions between reactants, increasing the rate of reaction. This is because the activity of a gas is directly proportional to the partial pressure of the gas. This is similar to the effect of increasing the concentration of a solution.

    A reaction’s kinetics can also be studied with a pressure jump approach. This involves making fast changes in pressure and observing the relaxation time of the return to equilibrium.”

    Pressure is one of the dynamics in the fusion reaction of the sun. The initial heating of the ecat increases the pressure inside the core. It maybe the pressure that starts the reaction as much as the increased temperature.

  • K

    It is in the name, as it has always been.

    • Thinksforself

      The name being Energy Catalyzer and pressurized gas being a form of stored energy my WAG that pressure might be the catalyst would still fit. Or do you have another guess?

      • K

        Energy Catalyzer ? I thought not.
        Pressure ? maybe. but where ?

  • georgehants

    September 22nd, 2012 at 4:52 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    A few persons suggested you to use the steel tube for heating. I think this is a very important issue since reducing the components (getting rid of the resistors) improve the dependability, durability, reduce the risk of failures and improve the lasting of the product, improving the return of investment. You could guarantee the product for more than 20 years, making it more convenient.
    My question is: is this last test made also without the resistors? If not do you plan such a test? When?
    Best regards,

    Andrea Rossi
    September 22nd, 2012 at 6:06 AM
    Dear Marco
    It is not possible.
    Warm Regards

    • Indeed, using the steel tube as resistor (if that was the idea) doesn’t sound practical because it would require very large ampere current, at least in DC, requiring a large transformer, thick cables and being also a potential fire risk etc. It sounds better to use a normal resistor which is specifically designed for the heating purpose.

      • Marcus

        Pekka, am I right in assuming you are the same scientist that came up with the E-Sail?

        Are you considering an application of hooking up the electric e-cat to an electron gun? Except for possible mass reduction is there an added acceleration benefit of being able to produce more energy than a few hundred watts that can be used by the electron gun to increase the sails electric potential?

  • andreiko

    Waarschijnlijk is de benodigde warmte om het proces te starten,door dr Rossi aangeduid als catalysator!(DUTCH)

  • LilyLover

    Looks like the nascency of the hydrogen atom, EM excitation through RF & controlled dissipation of heat… pretty much Rossi seems to have created tiny Suns and he brings them to life, and kill them before they get too big, and harness the heat while they are still burning. This will require the start-up energy. The 50% of the time – needed “later” energy, and run-away means reaction stops. All seems seamless now!!
    So, Rossi has created the lifecycle of ‘tiny stars in a box’ to harness the heat energy. What baffles me is the tiny-neutron-stars concept.
    But anyways, looks like, BLP, Brillouin & Rossi are converging to the Grand Unified Theory (GUT) … with their GUTs!

    This is also a good news in the sense that we are advancing in the knowledge with ability to benefit from it and thereby providing the self-evident truth.

    Rossi, Brillouin & BLP are bringing legitimacy to each other, with every passing day!!

    Happy Friday!!

    Rossi made Suns-in-the-bottle!!

    • daniel maris

      Well LilyLover, if all you say is true then it will be most pleasurable to witness the discomfiture of the physics establishment.

    • Ivan_cev

      Where you get these ideas?, this is science not literature, any claim has to be reasonably supported.

  • Hank Mills

    I asked this of Rossi.

    Hank Mills
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    September 21st, 2012 at 4:09 PM
    Hello Andrea,

    You stated today that you are not using a chemical catalyst. In the past you have confirmed that the catalyst is one or more chemical elements placed into the reactor core in addition to nickel and hydrogen. Were such elements, in addition to nickel and hydrogen, ever used? Are you using such chemical catalysts now? Did something change, or did you never really use them in the first place?

    I am very confused.


    • stuey

      hmmm interesting, its seems u have caught him in a lie, mabey it was to protect his interlectual property,?

      • Hank Mills

        We do not know if it was a lie. Let’s wait for an explanation.

      • Hank Mills

        I am hoping that there is a simple explanation for this. Maybe they were using catalysts, but now only use special processes on the nickel and the RFGs.

    • Hank Mills

      I am very curious about this issue. On multiple occasions Rossi indicated that the catalyst was more than one chemical element, in addition to hydrogen and oxygen, that was placed in the reactor core. He also indicated the purpose of these catalyst had something to do with the production of atomic hydrogen. I hope we get an explanation.

      • dragonX

        I hope too. Ged? You too?

        • Hank Mills

          What do you mean by GED?

      • Steve B

        what exactly did Rossi earlier say about the catalyst being of chemical nature ? Do you have any specific sources for this ?
        The confusion may come from definition of terms. In nuclear prcesses people usually do not speak of catalysis if they activate a process. That is why some people say catalyis does not exist in nuclear physics. Catalysis is a chemical term. Maybe rossi earleir did not understand the semantics. He meant activation and talked catalysis.

      • Peter_Roe

        I don’t remember Rossi using the phrase ‘chemical catalyst’ at any time (I could easily be wrong but can’t be bothered to search properly!) but he may well have implied this without actually stating it. His use of words has to be studied quite carefully on occasion.

        Celani says that the copper component of his Ni/Cu wire is responsible for producing atomic hydrogen which is then absorbed into the metal lattice. Copper therefore seems to be as good a candidate as any. It’s a chemical (element), and would act to ‘catalyse’ the ionisation of hydrogen, but it would not be acting as a chemical catalyst.

      • Max S

        In the patent, Rossi explicitely stated “catalyser materials are used” along with Nickel powder. But the claim was not further substantiated in the patent.
        This phrasing excludes any kind of resonance frequency or similar things as being the source of “catalysis”. It is a clear hint of a chemical being used.

        • Peter_Roe

          Agreed, but my point was simply that AR has not used the phrase ‘chemical catalyser’ and so can’t now be accused of changing his story when he excludes chemical catalysis.

          I think he does use a physical ‘additive’ that may or may or may not be copper (perhaps chemically plated onto the nickel powder?) but that he probably does also use some kind of EM stimulation, that he may class as part of the ‘drive’.

          A lot has been read into his various replies that he has not actually stated, which may be intentional, at least in part.

          • Agreed: the catalyst being copper (like Celani is using) would be consistent with AR’s statements. It would be technically convenient in the sense that the reaction anyway seems to produce more of it. But it might also be something different such as potassium. Focardi hinted in his interview earlier that the process “kicks in” near 60 C. The only element with its melting point near 60 C is potassium.

            The catalyst need not be an element, of course, because it could also be a chemical compound. But in that case the compound must be such that it is stable up to high temperature, preferably up to nickel melting point. This considerably restricts the range of possible compounds. Of course, it could also be a mixture of two or more elements or compounds.

      • Condensations sleds (according to 007 “Chemtrails”)

        Rossi never stated he use “oxygen”

      • pipmonm

        Rossi has always been a bit devious in his answers, especially when the questions try to ‘circle’ the core of his process, the ‘energy catalyzer’ (assuming he named it E-Cat fully thinking that the reaction was one made possible by this ‘catalyst’)
        However since the very basis of LENR is that the anomalous heat energy is not of chemical origin, then it wouldn’t really make sense, strictly speaking, to expect a ‘chemical’ catalyst to be at work.
        The production of one of the required components (the hydrogen) is surely a secondary and side issue, not really at the core of the LENR effect.

    • Hank Mills

      Over the last two years I have tried to learn as much as possible about how the ECAT works. If the tech never used chemical catalysts at all, then much of what I thought I knew is incorrect. Again, I hope that there is a simple explanation for this. I think that Rossi may have been using catalysts at one time, and then he may have found out he could get even better results without them. I think it is too early to say he lied. I do not think we should jump to that conclusion. But if there were never chemical catalysts I’m going to have to think long and hard about the situation.

    • Hank Mills

      I hope he answers my question soon.

      • jacob

        Hank,don’t let it bother you to much,time will tell,in business it is not a lie,it is propaganda,to send the competition down the wrong road and waste their time and money maybe to find the secret catalyst,that may or may not exist.

        The main factor is ,it produces abundant heat,is it not? I personally couldn’t care how it does it, as long as it makes me feel, warm and toasty,just thinking about it.

        I am more concerned how it is being suppressed, again by the media,the patent office,UL,DOE ,It was tested as being save to be used by industry, a ferrari to walk like a turtle? required by those who pull the strings.

        • Hank Mills

          I think there is probably an explanation for this, and once chemical catalysts were used. However, if it turns out chemical catalysts were never used, I will be offended –big time. I have sincerely made every effort to understand his tech, and I have spent hundreds of hours reading and retreading every comment Rossi has made. If I have been lied to, I probably have less interest in continuing to follow the tech. I am as interested in how the tech works as much as I am it’s potential. I am very intellectually curious. If I have been purposely given false info, it offends me.

          • The problem with Rossi is that he tries to be open and helpful where others would simply ignore outright questions that clearly encroach on intellectual propert rights

            Leave the poor man alone and have some patience

            • Hank Mills

              I am not attacking him. I have stated there is probably an explanation. The issue is that although Rossi is honest, he sometimes makes statements that contradict previous statements without providing clarification. His enemies try to jump on this and attack him, without waiting for clarification. I have had to defend my support of Rossi to multiple parties who have tried very hard to convince me that Rossi has nothing of value. During these conversations, they have used Rossi’s statements agains him to try and make him look like a liar or worse. I have had to over and over again bring up the facts that show Rossi did not lie. I appreciate that Rossi is willing to answer questions, but it would be great if he provided clarification when his statements contradict what he has previously stated.

              • dragonX

                See Hank. It is awful when you need to rely on some guy’s word instead of the scientific method (clean 3rd party tests). It is especially excruciating when you have to do it for years, like in your and all true fans cases. Rossi seems to have little concern about others and more about his “aura”.

                In little more than 3 months it will be 2 years since he said the technology of E-Cat will be explained “soon”. Figure that out…

                P.S. Seems like the moderation on this website comes in unhealthy dose.

              • Ivan_cev

                I am a Rossi skeptic, I do not like the way he puts his half-truths, clearly this is a contradiction.
                What is a catalyst? is a substance that facilitate a chemical reaction without participating in the reaction itself.
                There is no other definition of catalyst except in literature.
                This will turn like the kwh/h unit Rossi uses.
                He is clearly not an Engineer, he does not have the science rigour approach.
                I have postulated that Rossi could do a huge damage to the LENR field. I hope I am wrong.

              • Peter_Roe

                If Rossi has chosen to ‘bend’ the truth at one time or another to protect IP or some other part of his operation – then that would be understandable. Mostly though he uses words in a way that is intended to lead the reader to draw a particular inference – without actually stating it.

                We need to remember that he doesn’t actually need to tell outside observers anything at all, and if he ‘filters’ what he gives out, then that is his right. It’s up to us to do our own filtering, and arrive at our own (necessarily tentative) conclusions.

          • jacob

            Hank,remember when Rossi changed his understanding by what process the reactions in the E-cats are taking place, and what he believed to be true before
            has now changed.
            Rossi is obviously a person of integrity ,Hank ,and so are you,but don’t doubt his words just yet,words said in the past don’t mean much,if the reality of the truth keeps on changing about the catalyst’s role in the process.

            • Peter_Roe

              Good observation. Everyone involved is on a learning curve. As people on the sidelines, we are privileged to be included (to a limited extent) in this evolving story.

          • Bernie Koppenhofer

            Hank: You are being too sensitive, on a personal level. A good reporter keeps his objectivity, keeps his personal feeling out of equation. I assume you are trying to be a good reporter.

      • GreenWin

        Aren’t we reasonably sure there is nickel powder (an elemental chemical) plus some copper and xx in the “catalyst?” Adding EM energy of some kind furthers the reaction. It differs from chemical catalysts that oxidize one chemical into another – which is the reference AR is likely using:

        And while variations of nickel alloys and treatments seem common – there is no “chemical” reaction producing heat – it is clearly nuclear in type.

        • Hank Mills

          Rossi used to say that the copper all came from transmutation. This was logical, because the core he was using, made out of stainless steel, did not contain copper. Now I am wondering if he really was adding copper as part of the charge. If this is the case, it could mean he may have been less than honest with us. Or it could be that then he was generating huge amounts of copper, and now he is not. It is all confusing.

          • Ivan_cev

            I smell a rat

          • Max S

            The patent description is perhaps the only source free of “intentional misdirections” because if Rossi wants to protect IP it does not make any sense to give any misleading statements there.
            There says clearly in claim 13 that Ni is replaceable by copper which would also be a source of energy. It sounds as if Cu would undergo transmutation as well, rather than serving as a catalyst.

            • Bernie Koppenhofer


    • Hank Mills:

      (See also discussion on previous thread where this all started.)

      The question was (Steven N. Karels): “The catalyst that you guard so well — is it a catalyst in the chemical sense? That is — changes in rate of a chemical reaction due to the participation of a substance called a catalyst.”

      And Andrea’s answer was: “No, we call it a catalyst, but it is not a chemical catalyst.

      A likely interpretation is: The catalyst is indeed a chemical compound as stated previously. But it is not a “chemical catalyst” in the sense that Karels was describing because there is no chemical reaction (apart from H2->H+H, possibly).

      If he would have answered “yes” to that question, it would have been misleading as well, even more than answering “no”.

      We also must not forget that his English skills are not perfect, and in this type of questions it does show up sometimes. He seems to think in Italian and then translate, rather than thinking directly in English. Now he might be wondering why his answer created misunderstandings.

      • jacob

        It may be just that simple,just a misunderstanding.

  • Omega Z

    According to Rossi, He uses Micro Nickel powder. Not Nano Nickel powder.
    According to Rossi, RF is involved.
    According to CURES, The catalyst may be in the surface preparation of the Nickel. But even he is not sure.
    According to those who tested the contents of a used powder, Only Nickel, Copper, & Iron were found. The Iron could be from the Core itself because of high temps. Thus the mention of the core being pitted internally after operation. A normal effect from high temps.
    There’s been mention of Electrical waves, But this may only enhance the start-up or the AHE output.
    According to CURES the external shape of the E-cat is flexible, but there may be specific preparation of the internal surface where the reaction takes place.

    All pieces of a puzzle that are necessary for E-cat to work. No single bullet.

    • Condensations sleds (according to 007 “Chemtrails”)

      15 months back Rossi publicly stated his powder is 80% Nickel, 10% iron and 10% copper. It is not clear if it is another special disinfo

      • Omega Z

        Condensations sleds

        Actually, that was the analysis of spent fuel by the Swedes. Rossi provide them the spent/used fuel along with unused for comparison.

  • It’s not really a secret, it’s a radio frequency generator that vibrates the lattice that precipitates the reaction. I suppose the frequency is a secret, but that could be discovered with a few educated guesses and some experimentation.

    That’s also why for the moment the eCat still requires external electric power.

    • Ivan_cev

      you mean Rossi have a external radio frequency generator and the e-cat acts a a receptor?
      I have seen no space for any electronic hardware in the hot cat, and the heat will kill any component.

      • Peter_Roe

        Any RF generating circuits would be in the control box, not the reactor itself. The heating coils could be acting as the output antennae. As the RF would then comprise a part of the power input, this could easily confuse any instrumentation used by someone who is not aware of this component, and is not allowing for it.

        • Ivan_cev

          as the electrical element is small the frequency of the radio has to be very small, also the power captured by the ecat will be very small, to the point to be just ignored (from the input power point of view), otherwise you will need a giant transmitter, and what about the tuning of the frequency?
          The blue control box has been shown and had no complex electronics, there was not radio transmitter there, only control voltage by triac. Have you ever tried to capture the power in radio waves? I have.

    • Morgan

      the speed of light? it thinks its gonna absorb a photon, instead it absorbs a neutron

    • I thought the nature of the secret catalyst was quite obvious too. Brillouin uses a “Q-Pulse” to stimulate their reaction, Energetics uses a “Superwave,” others claim to use a laser light, etc. Some kind of resonance frequency appears to be needed to initiate the nuclear mechanisms.

      • Peter_Roe

        I agree. I think Rossi started out using the superfluous ‘band heater’ on his prototype as an RF induction coil, but probably now uses the heater coils themselves to ‘piggy back’ a modulated input which is independent of the heating power supply.

        • Peter_Roe

          As I said elsewhere though, I think that Rossi considers RF input to be a part of the ‘drive’ rather than the ‘catalyser’, which is probably a separate physical component of the base matrix or ‘fuel’.

      • don’t forget Defkalion triggering,
        based on plasma exitation creating Rydberg Hydrogen, that they polarize to make it more efficient…

        if you add the good theories that work, Brillouin and DGT, you can catch an image of LENR triggering…

        • Ivan_cev

          Dfkalion creates plasma by a very well know way, just sparks in a spark plug. then the air in the grap ionizes and create plasma.

        • Peter_Roe

          It seems that all that is necessary is to ionise hydrogen, and it doesn’t particularly matter whether you use a physical decomposition catalyst, spark discharge, plasma or electrolysis to do it.

  • Morgan

    I think the main thing that has been missing from his talking is exactly how he is causing the neutrons to be able to be absorbed ie a laser or using a resonating frequency etc or whatever to align the magnetic field correctly

  • AstralProjectee

    It’s probably his frequency generator. LOL

    • Rossi admit recently RFG was a red herring.
      anyway whatever Rossi says might be a red herring, a mistake, truths, of a lie… with high probability each…

      • Peter_Roe

        Missed that – do you have a link please?

  • artefact

    A bit OT:

    ~Russ from RWGresearch built in 2 or 3 weeks a replication of the noble gas “popper” from Bob Rohner.

    First testing video:

    Conclusion. When even the smallest amount of plasma is formed, there is a pressure release. It’s actually more violent in “air” than in the enert gasses.

    He also got the popper kit from John Rohner and trys to built it.

    I hope he will calculate the energy input and output.

    • AstralProjectee

      You should post this in the forums. Thanks for the update.

  • Khashayar Shatti

    In this case it seems to be an induction process in which Ni vibrates in an unknown generated magnetic field(LENR process) When Ni melts, meg. field may be destroyed and heat stops to be generated. Induction processes generate instant heat.

    • Khashayar Shatti

      Professor focardi, in one of his interviews stated that Rossi’s method is completely different from his method.
      And now about the catalyst, Rossi says “we call it a catalyst, but it is not a chemical catalyst”. Could this be a kind of atomic magnifying magnetizing catalyst that loses its function after 6 months work?

  • georgehants

    Because I feel so left out of these technical debates I will just add my un-expert view.
    I think that under the correct conditions a new state of matter is formed, like a plasma etc, but very stable, that is endothermic with respect to normal matter.
    This will be entirely and only explained by the Quantum.
    Ha, now I feel happier.

    • georgehants

      Or maybe exothermic, but anyway it gives out heat. 🙂

      • In other words, the new state has higher energy state than normal matter so that creating it takes some heating energy, but there is some energy barrier between them so that a return to normal state does not take place easily. Plus, from its other “end” the new state decays nuclearly at a low rate through another barrier into a much lower lying state formed by nuclear ash (whatever it is, helium or something else).

        • georgehants

          Pekka, welcome I thought the world had come to an end and nobody told me.
          Yes, I suppose that sounds about right but as usual I have to leave any technicalities to you experts, I do not find it interesting to be involved in the nuts and bolts of science.
          A little like learning to talk Chinese, when I prefer to just get the big picture, I can use a translator or wait for a Chinese speaker to interpret.
          The next thing that happens is I meet somebody talking in Zulu and now I have to learn that language.

  • Lu

    Why spend time conjecturing about this? As Gerrit said, it could be anything. This is just a distraction from testing and public demonstrations/installations which hopefully we’ll see before end of this year.

  • It’s likely a carbon catalyst, like Randell Mills’ in the hydrino reactor.

    • Ged

      From the papers I’ve read that looked closely at this, it seems that carbon actually poisons the LENR reaction. On the other hand, oxides seems to greatly facilitate the reaction; such as the oxide coat put upon the Isotran wire used by Celani.

      • Omega Z


        The Carbon is confusing. Some indicate Carbon in the process.
        Others say it poisons the process as you stated.

  • Gerrit

    typical Rossi speak, it could mean many things 🙂

    – it could still mean that the catalyst is a chemical substance, but that it functions as a nuclear catalyst. So the substance is not a chemical catalyst, because there is no chemical process that has to be catalyzed.

    – it could of course mean that the catalyst is not a chemical additive, but electromagnetic waves.

    anything else ?

    • Venno

      Hi Gerrit
      Please excuse my question I am unfamiliar with the process
      Why do you say electro m waves does he use it to excite the hydrogen like a microwave heats water molecules?

      • iacopo

        because of risonance effect of H at 1.42 GHz

    • Yes you are right.The late Harold Aspden mentions this in
      his Lenr patent years before Rossi.

    • Ged

      Yep, you’re completely right in your points. There’s no chemistry going on in that regards (LENR isn’t a chemical reaction), so the catalyst isn’t chemical in that sense (unless it is a metal catalyst that simply helps to split H2 into H+ for fusion; that would technically be a chemical catalyst, and Rossi would be slightly mistaken in his statement if so).

      As others point out, the catalyst is most likely electromagnetic. But it could also be a geometric “catalyst” (proper geometry of the device/nickel/etc), and he simply calls it a catalyst when it isn’t in any strict sense.

      The catalyst could also be an oxide layer on the metal, which helps with electron shielding and reducing the Coulomb barrier.

      • GreenWin

        There are many areas of metallurgy that impact the LENR process – not the least of which is the geometry of the crystal lattice. The geometry of atomic structures alters their effect on molecules and atoms. Hints of this are found in symbology throughout the world.

      • GreenWin

        I’ll add that geometry determines resonance. If you find the resonance of any matter, you can alter it:

        Peter Davey died in 2008 after this story aired.

        • jacob

          I was never able to replicate Peter Davey’s sonic boiler,using several bells and was going to invest in a frequency generator to eliminate the needed tuning required to get the sweet spot in resonance,but what I did learn how to do calimetric calculations and invented a plate heater in the process,probably invented by someone before me,which produces consistent Overunity between 1.3 and 1.4,just 2 simple copper or aluminum parallel plates hooked up to 110 volt ,spaced apart by mere millimeters.
          2 by 2 inch plates used consumes around 5 amps ,I forget the exact size I used to boil water faster than my electric kettle ,perhaps a little over 3 by 3 inches,I prefered aluminum ,it stays cleaner than copper,plates need to be vertical in the water to allow for better circulation around them.

          Do this yourself and you will be convinced that Peter Davey’s sonic boiler had some truth to it.

          Cold fusion works!!

      • Ivan_cev

        We could discard magnetic, microwaves, and electric fields.
        Magnetic needs space and probably electricity.
        microwaves needs big devices, and Rossi has stated that electricity is not needed to drive the device, and it could be driven by gas.
        We have seen the simplicity of the hot cat.
        What I clearly remember is Rossi description of the process saying we put Nickel powder and a catalyst implying clearly it is a substance.
        This just add to the controversy

        • Peter_Roe

          Microwave stimulation was once mentioned by GEC in connection with their GeNiE reactor (that information is gone from their site now). This seems to directly result in the second-stage reaction referred to by Rossi that can generate COP=200 but at the cost of also generating an intense neutron flux. That pathway might be of interest to the nuclear industry but is obviously n/a for small scale CF heat.

          I don’t think that Rossi ever directly stated that the NG heated version of the hot cat does not need some electrical power as well (correct me if wrong). This whole idea seems primarily to be an attempt to meet the needs of the NG powergen industry, and may apply to heat input only. If that is not the case, and electrical input is definitely not needed then you are right, and all forms of EM input/control are out of the window.

          • Thinksforself

            That type of reaction in a large scale power plant powered by both LENR and the breaking down of nuclear waste could be a very useful technology for many decades to come. At least until we deplete all of our nuclear waste down into safer elements.

          • Omega Z


            Yes, Electric is still needed for the Controls. The NG heat is cheaper then the Electric heat. (In some places)
            Rossi’s statements make it sound as if COP>6 will be harder to maintain or guarantee, but NG being cheaper still works out positive.

            Having given it some thought, I think I know Rossi’s reason for designing an NG E-cat.

            Primarily In the U.S., Many Plants have been converted to NG. Usually when this happens, Long Term Contracts are signed to guarantee low prices. A Decade or longer.

            There’s the catch. Long term contracts locking in price usually have caveats. Pay for it even if you don’t use it. Like cell phone contracts. Breaking them can cost as much or more then keeping it. E-cats using NG solves most of the problem.