New Interview with Aldo Proia, E-Cat Licensee

The International Business Times has published a new interview with Aldo Proia, CEO of Prometeon srl, Italian Licensee for the E-Cat. Prioa covers much of the same ground that he has discussed in previous interviews, but there are some interesting points worth mentioning.

  • When asked whether he is sure of the E-Cat’s validity, he says that he has never had any doubts. He says that he has researched the technology thoroughly using qualified physicists and engineers who had access to information through confidential channels. Proia states:

We knew that the maximum COP apparatus – taken to extremes not be proposed because commercially unstable – was about 200, a tremendous value. This means that even if Rossi had missed a measure of energy by a factor of 2, there would be no particular problems to ensure the customer the COP 6 guaranteed, because essentially the E-Cat is a Ferrari that is made to walk like a turtle.

  • Proia hopes that eventually the Italian government might encourage the E-Cat as a means of saving businesses money, and thus spurring the hiring of employees.
  • He mentions that he has had lots of interest — 2000 emails in a month and a half, but he now must turn his attention to customers.
  • He sees no serious competitive threat to the E-Cat on the horizon — the only threat that could come, he says, is from someone who got unauthorized access to Rossi’s technology.
  • Payback on the thermal E-Cat is estimated at less than five years, and beyond that time,  a savings of about a quarter of a million Euros per year.
  • He mentions that both Leonardo and Prometeon monitor the web and keeping track of malicious comments about E-Cat technology. He states that there could be future lawsuits against people who spread falsehoods to damage the business interests of the companies.

A Google translated version of the article can be read here.

 

  • georgehants

    A comment from Vortex explaining that scientists are completely incapable of finding Evidence themselves and have to be led by the nose from their establishment.
    ——-
    Re: [Vo]:free energy rap
    Nigel Dyer
    Mon, 17 Sep 2012 02:27:59 -0700
    Half of my brain thinks that this is brilliant and just what is needed, and the other half thinks that it is not.
    From my personal experience the problem is not so much a conspiracy as people, such as scientists in universities who do know something about this stuff, having read about this in the past, decided from the evidence then that there was nothing in it, and there not being the evidence available now that would convince them otherwise.
    If they encounter the rap video I suspect it is as likely to change their mind as would an equivalent video presenting theological evidence for free energy.
    What is needed for them is evidence in a language, and from people that they can believe.
    Nigel
    On 16/09/2012 22:37, Harry Veeder wrote:
    FREE ENERGY – LUMINARIES ft. Aishah [ELEVATE SOLUTION SERIES]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l5Z9T_x8A
    professionally produced rap video about free energy.
    nearly 80,000 hits
    Harry

    • GreenWin

      Like it George.

  • georgehants

    Well very quite, anybody like to comment on why dumb main-line science is frightened out of it’s wits to look at the Evidence and except and research the Placebo Effect.
    Science is meant to be at the forefront of research not dragging up the rear debunking and denying everything against it’s closed-minded Dogma.
    Are scientists happy to be told what to think.

    • artefact

      Yes, its quiet. But maby I have something for you.

      Germany stops paying for projects regarding the ITER. They continue paying money via the EU but they stop paying directly.
      The reason is that they do not get big orders from it.

      You have to googletranslate:
      http://www.ftd.de/politik/deutschland/:energiewende-bundesregierung-kappt-geld-fuer-kernfusion/70091454.html

      • georgehants

        artefact, interesting, what is the ITER.
        If Cold Fusion, Rossi, has the goods then they will not be the only ones I should think.

        • artefact

          ITER is hot fusion.

          I hope they spend the saved money on cold fusion :)

    • Chris

      Absolutely false, scientists are not told what to think, they are trained in how to think. The method has more to do with rejection than with belief and this is the way against dogma.

      The key is in how to reject something. Some are too hasty, some are not hasty enough. Actually, most are either one or the other; in medio stat virtus and virtue isn’t cheap. I can tell you, it ain’t any old fool’s easy game.

      • stefan

        They have had their chance they badly screwed it up and now they try to participate… to late. My advise, get back to your resume and clean it up to be employable.

  • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

    Here is a link to the NIF: https://lasers.llnl.gov/about/missions/national_security/index.php

    Sorry, put it in the wrong place.

  • John

    What we really know from this article is that a bunch of contracts were signed and someone bought some business cards.

  • http://aotearoaisnotforsale.com Linda

    What is holding back the eCat?

    Capitalism.

    • Chris

      Actually, Capitalism is showing quite an interest in it. The only thing it needed was to believe in it. It is beginning to believe in it.

      Capitalism is interested, with due diligence, in anything that’s a good competitor for a given purpose. The competitors of LENR are losing their campaign against it, enrgy hungry enterprises are starting to believe.

      That’s how it works.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      I’m not sure if anything is actually holding it back.

  • captain

    Ah, Ah, Ah… look at here http://shutdownrossi.com/

    Now is Cures (Italian colonel Domenico Fioravanti) WANTED by the snakes.

    Ah, Ah. Ah…

    Snakes, puppets, they’ll never change :-(

    • jacob

      to bad, gary wrights brain is does not seem connected to the brainstem,must be some unexplained disconnection for mystery for filtering out the truth.

      • jacob

        here is what I think about it all,since I am well informed on this subject of Lenr Cold Fusion,One may underestimate Leonardo or Mr Rossi,for their current advance in this new to us technology.
        I have the gut feeling that Rossi is very strategic about his every move he makes,he can’t give out all information,the swedes were seemingly not happy with Rossi,but was it part of the plan in order to slow down publicity and pressure from others.
        I think Rossi has units running on self sustain mode for some time now,but they have to be very careful about admitting to it,the market is not ready for a self sustain E-cat of any sort.
        Having said that Rossi’s team I think are much more advanced then they are letting on.

        Rossi, the CEO making executive decisions about the future about Leonardo’s products.

        Sometimes he uses restraint ,I think,to hold back now,to release much more later.

        • ivan_cev

          skeptics do not exists, just bad demos.

  • http://rossifocardifusion.com/author/john John De Herrera

    “he has never had any doubts” says Aldo Proia, CEO of Prometeon srl
    How reassuring that is! I suspect that Mr. Rossi has been playing many games to confuse his competitors? OK, so we can still dream about our Rossi E-Cat powered homes, businesses, schools, churches, cars, boats, planes… and a NASA Space Plane that can take us out there in God’s domain. jdh
    http://rossifocardifusion.com/

  • robert

    Warum entscheidet sich Rossi nicht aus der Geschichte ein Open source Projekt zu machen? Das würde mehrere Vorteile für alle bringen. Und wenn alles stimmt was hier so geschrieben wird dann ist Ihm der Nobelpreis und vieles mehr sicher.

    • http://www.lenr.tk/blog/?page_id=45 barty

      Geld regiert die Welt ;)
      Mit Open Source verdient sich schlecht Geld.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Many have asked this question, the answer is that it is not his way of operating. He may or may not be correct. One thing speaking in favour of his way is that while open source works with software, it’s harder with hardware (no “copy command”). Actually I’m not aware of really good examples of hardware opensource projects.

      • Al S

        Agree, Rossi one smart dude. May he profit. New age compels free energy. It’s coming. Thanks, sinjore!

      • Omega Z

        Pekka

        I Agree. There’s already a couple open-source LENR products. They will never be mass produced. Only a novelty product. If they benefit anyone at all, it would be but a few. Can never be brought to market. There is no protection.

        Note that after all the calls for Open Source there is little Real Interest in these already made available.

        No Corporation would ever build add on such as Electric generation or A/C systems as there would be No Standard. They expect Standardization & Millions of applicable products before they’ll invest hundreds of millions in new products to work with them.

        So Open sourcing the E-cats would probably be It’s death-knell.

        • Ivone Martin FitzGerald

          Do you not notice how the fakesite “SDR” constantly calls for open source, when the method is not suitable for hardware based technological solutions? After carefully considering the pros and cons of crowdsourcing versus traditional patent based “bringing to market” I am convinced Rossi is going about it correctly. This takes capital, like it or not.

    • Plumber

      Open Source ist Bockmist.
      Wieso soll Rossi seine Entwicklung, die ihm viel Geld gekostet hat,
      verschenken?
      Die Nobelpreiskohle ist Peanuts.

  • DaveS

    Jim Rice
    September 15th, 2012 at 3:00 PM
    Dear Dr. Rossi:

    1. Regarding the Hot Cat report, why not include a control version which has no active charge. Then conduct the experiment exactly as before and compare the results to the version with the active charge. The difference must then be a result of the presence or absence of the charge.

    Sincerely,
    Jim Rice

    Andrea Rossi
    September 16th, 2012 at 5:50 AM
    Dear Jim Rice:
    1- we made it : we call it the “dummy test”

    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    Did I miss something? Was the “dummy test” data in the High Temperature Energy Catalyzer Test report?

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      No it wasn’t. I guess one must wait for their publication (2-3 months+) to see the results.

      • DaveS

        Given the importance of following accepted scientific practices, aka the “scientific method”, I don’t understand why this “dummy test” data wasn’t incorporated into the first, and some would argue, most critical third party test report. This test data could have been used to corroborate the calculated test results. Instead we got a fire storm of criticism and derision over the actual input energy usage being allegedly 2-3 times higher, thereby negating the output energy gain. This threw the entire report into question (see “NyTeknik Reports on Halted Swedish Investment in Hydrofusion Following Tests” in a previous E-Cat World article.) Wikipedia, a major debunker of the energy catalyzer, had a field day with this controversy. What should have been a landmark day for Rossi and the E-Cat turned into a PR nightmare instead.

        I just hope that the inclusion of this “dummy test” data in a later report will repair the damage to Rossi’s credibility that has taken place as a result of this test report fiasco.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Maybe it was done only a few days ago. Because not long ago (still after Zurich) Rossi’s comment was “we will do it” and only today it was “we made it”. But I don’t think that they will release another draft version before the final one.

          • DaveS

            If that’s the case Rossi should have waited for the “dummy test” data so that he could have included it in the Hot Cat report.

            Rossi seems to have a blind spot when it comes to basic scientific methodology. Because of his lack of scientific rigor, he has brought on a lot of unnecessary criticism. As I recall, this whole Steve Krivit/Rossi feud started over Rossi’s refusal to employ a control E-Cat in the demonstration that Krivit was to observe. Even though Defkalion’s third party test results have not yet been released, at least they put into place a strong testing protocol complete with control Hyperions.

            I keep harping on this because LENR, the E-Cat specifically, could change the course of humanity. So when Rossi keeps shooting himself in the foot, the world continues to disbelieve and we all inch closer to some kind of energy related Armageddon.

            • sven

              Think of it for a moment. Today Rossi has published enough to keep us all interested in the technology, prepare a market for the product and build up a network of distributors. It is however not enough to proof without any doubt that the technology is real. If such a final publication would occur leaving no doubt anymore, the immediate reaction from the market will be an investment in researching this field in volumes that we can’t even start to imagine. That day will be the tipping point for the energy conversion of the world. If Rossi has a product/technology ready and stable at that day, he could be 6, 12 or 24months ahead of the competition and technology giants like GE, Siemens, Toshiba etc. will be standing in lines outside his office to buy him out. The length of that time window is exactly the worth of his company. So…for making money, he would be maximizing the value of his company by leaving a reasonable doubt regarding the integrity of the technology until he is ready himself to enter the market with product or products. For Rossi to maximize the profit of his investment, timing of that publication is therefore the key. Until the right time comes in Rossies mind, the only thing we can do is accept the intentionally incomplete reports published. Actually a good business strategy.

              • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

                Agreed, except that in my opinion an even bigger reason than business is peace of work. An inventor needs (1) peace of work, (2) the right level of resources (not too little, not too much). Now he has both, but by waking up mass interest too early he would have risked both. By any measure, the E-cat’s evolution during the last 10 months has been lightning fast. Big companies or big money could only have done it slower.

        • KenLebrun

          I don’t believe it was Rossi’s intention to release the hot cat’s existance. If i remember correctly, it was “leaked” by an overzealous team-member. The publishing of the report was more than likely a response to appease the public, seeing how the damage was already done. “Loose lips, Sink ships”. Luckily Rossi had a good supply of duck-tape to patch the leak. I would assume that Rossi never intended to release news of the hot-cat until research and subsequent reports were done. If you discover you can improve a process 100 fold yet you immediately discover more improvements. Why stop the improvement process to try and validate it in the public eye? With the leaked information, Rossi has been forced to divert time and effort to validation, rather than improving the process. I think this is the number one reason Rossi would rather keep things closed behind doors. The E-cat/Hot-cat or just CAT has been evolving rapidly, Rossi just wants people to “Shut up and let us do our work”. Because every time information gets out, there is 3 times the work associated with the release.

          Just my $.02

          V/R

          Ken

  • Ash

    Thats a very softball interview. Why didnt the reported ask some hard questions? Has Prometeon taken possession of or sold any Ecats? Have they tested them independently? Where are they manufactured? Who are the customers?

    All of his speculations about the market are meaningless until there is a working product. He doesn’t mention ever seeing a working product beyond the October demo which was nearly a year ago.

    As an aside, I wonder how much Prometeon paid Rossi for their ‘license’? I’m guessing it’s way less than Hydrofusion’s failed investment. If you search on LinkedIn, the CEO appears to be the only employee of the company so thy must be quite small.

    • Omega Z

      Ash

      Hydrofusion & Prometeon Are Both Licensees of the E-cat. Money that’s kept in escrow until a product is delivered.

      Hydrofusion was also looking at buying in as a Partner/Shareholder. Big Difference as this money would be at risk & invested in the ongoing research.

      You have to wonder what the Motives were for Hydrofusion backing out. The Hot Cat is a product undergoing development & repeated/ongoing testing. All they had to do is ask for additional Different tests or wait for the testing to be completed.

      No further press releases have followed for explanation & it appears their still on Board for the Low Temp E-cat.

      One explanation would be they were suppose to present at Zurich which was primarily about the Hot Cat. Because of 1 failed test from their view point, they couldn’t be on board for supporting it until further tests are done to verify the Hot Cat. They may still invest in it if further tests become conclusive that it works as portrayed.

      So what you may have is a Bungled Press Release.

      Maybe it should have been presented as “We can not support the Hot Cat Data until further tests have been completed & Certified by OUR test Group to work as stated at this time. Thus, They could have distanced themselves from appearing to support it at the Zurich Conference while reasonably keeping the Door Open for conclusive evidence.

      • Sanjeev

        Friendly fire.

        The chance of an intentional rigging of input power is very less, because no one would take such a risk with high profile testing agencies.

        Internal differences, difference of opinion, ego issues, thats all I can think of. There will be another press release if the fight is sorted out.

  • Chris

    Now that is interesting. Glad they are receiving plenty of mail.

  • georgehants

    The Guardian home
    The Observer home
    Series: … on science
    Nuclear fusion – your time has come
    Harnessing nuclear fusion to create cheap, safe and sustainable energy used to be a futuristic joke. But its day is almost upon us.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/sep/16/nuclear-fusion-iter-jet-forshaw

    • Adam Lepczak

      George,
      This actually looks like a huge fail when compared to the E-Cat. Did you read the price tag on these projects?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      I don’t think it will fit in my basement.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Despite their perhaps opposite meaning, this sort of journalism is actually welcome preparation of societal ground for cold fusion to take seed.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      Tokomak hot fusion reactors produce prodigious amounts of fast neutrons which destroy the very materials of which the reactor is composed. It is likely the entire concept will be made moot by the impossibility of maintaining a reactor that would pay for itself before its life expires. A better idea is aneutronic hot fusion of protons and boron: http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/2012/06/alternate-path-to-cleaner-brighter.html

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        But alas, boron fusion is next to impossible because its plasma is so hot that bremsstrahlung cooling (thermal emission of X-rays) is much larger than fusion power density, and both depend in the same way on plasma density so increasing it doesn’t help. It might work only if X-rays could be efficiently turned into electric energy outside the reactor, part of which would be pumped back into the reaction to keep it hot.

        Similar problems concern He-3, although to a lesser extent, besides the fact that He-3 is practically nonexistent on earth.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

          Follow the link provided. I wrote the article with the help of Dr. Lerner of Lawrenceville Plasma Physics Laboratory (LPP) http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/ who with his people are working on proton-boron fusion. They have made a theoretical breakthrough w.r.t. bremsstrahlung. There is a quantum effect that prevents those losses at very high magnetic fields densities. The x-rays supposedly can be captured via the the photoeletric effect in multiple layers of foil. I think the article is readable and replete with links to their sources most of which are from LPP. BTW Dr. Lerner worked with Dr. Miley years ago and he told me that if Dr. Miley really believes there is something to LENR then there probably is.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            I remembering hearing about it. I’m however quite suspicious how one could have gigagauss magnetic fields to invoke said quantum effect. The magnetic pressure of a gigagauss field is quite enormous, millions of times larger than what structural materials could tolerate.

            • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

              The field is produced when the currents flowing between the anodes into the cathode come together and shortly form an instability that creates something like a knot that collapses. The knot is about a millimeter in diameter and the gradient is extreme and is formed in a plasma free of conventional materials.

              • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

                But if it’s a transient phenomenon, is “Mr. Lawson” happy?

                • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

                  Not sure what you mean. The proposed p-B reaction would be cycled about 3000 times per second.

      • Mannstein

        Inertial fusion using high powered lasers might be a better approach than the magnetic confined method. No neutron flux to worry about.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

          The inertial confinement experiments at Lawrence Livermore National Lab are being conducted to gather data that can be used as benchmarks for the testing of computer code written to represent nuclear explosions for the purpose of designing atomic weapons. The power generation story is a cover story for weapon research. They have not a chance of turning such a scheme into a power reactor.

  • Adrian Ashfield

    Patrik, Two problems with your thesis. 1. Rossi would lose control of the company/product with that much cash injected. Do you really want the company to be run by a lawyer or an accountant this early? 2. He is right in forecasting that the only proof that will be believed is sale of working product.

    Why do you think a new giant company will be any faster in bringing the product to the market? Consider how bad DoE is. As of today their official position is that LENR is an illusion of measurement error. Much of the delay will be from licensing/regulating anyway. Rossi has demonstrated he is developing the E-Cat faster than one might have expected. You are suggesting that it should be taken from him and be given to some unknown person.

  • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

    Th comments on Defkalion having stollen E-cat technology does not remind under scrutiny…
    I don’t know if DGT had guessed e-cat catalyst, but clearly they no more use it and they choose another way.
    If Proia is right with the COP 200 claim, which is possible yes unstable, it appears that Defkalion choose anothe engineering compromize to allow faster control, better stability, yet more complexity and less maximum COP…

    those company have done a good job, and some public relation mistakes, yet Rossi is clearly the leader is bad communication and bad management.

    if those company don’t succeed quickly to be on the market, I can see 1 US and 2 european company that can deliver later, after some already startes research…
    and I don’ talk about the silencer like nichenergy, lenuco, the japanese, the chinese…

    time to be serious and stop playing the snake and the clowns, chasing the libel case.

    Time also for Rossi to stop playing the smoke screen to keep LENR not credible, hiding good results, because other companies will win credibility before.

  • andrea

    I don’t think 5 year is good. If a buyer think the e-Cat is a good technology, he knows that in 5 years there will be lots of better version at a much lower cost. If this is a real revolution then it has to be capable of 12-18 months for a break even. 1 million euros for 1 megawatt is far from the real production costs of the device, to me it is a barrier to select their customers.

    • Miles

      I’d rather buy an e-cat NOW as it’s better than what we have today.

    • Omega Z

      andrea

      By any other Energy Production standard, this is Dirt Cheap.

      After a few dozen of these are in operation & known to function as said, There will be a waiting list for years. Don’t expect the price to drop. Maybe improvements without price increase at Best.

      New Products require hugh amounts of Capitol for building factories & setting up distribution systems. Wont be much profit for sometime to come. Nearly All profits will be directed at growing the business & Research costs.

    • Pretender

      I agree. There is one another aspect:

      When whatever breakthrough technology strike, so old structures sequentially lower prices at their old technologies.

      So 5 years of payback is unreal. With falling prices of fossil fuels etc., such payback will prolonged to 10-15 years. And with newer advanced versions 2 years later on market, subjects who installed this first generation will be crushed with even lower costs. These are economy laws.

      • Andrew Macleod

        Your nuts if you think oil prices will drop! We are using it faster than we can pump it out of the ground. There are billions of cars that need it. If anything it will go up so big oil can milk our savings out of us before the energy shift happens.

        • Pretender

          Dear Andrew, durin 2008 world conumption of raw oil dropped by 4%. Markets translates this phenomenon this way: crashed price of oil from 143 to 37 USD/per barrel.

          So Andrew, who is here nut ?

          • Andrew Macleod

            Looking at one year? The price of oil on average has increased steadily.

          • Omega Z

            Pretender

            In 2008, the world Economy was in crash mode. Otherwise the Demand is increasing.

    • Andrew Macleod

      5 years ROI not good? Please tell me of any other investment you could make that has a 5 year return. You have to remember these units are being sold to large industries that require huge amounts of power and dropping 1.5 million bucks isn’t going to effect them much. People are talking about greed please remember as well that it’s not only Rossi that is making the money it’s the licencees as well. If there is no room for profit the is no business. Yes it’s expensive but prices drop over time, and anything state of the art and new is usually expensive. Also take into account he needs capital to expand, and I for one like the idea that this capital is comming from the already rich instead of the little guy.

    • andrea

      First of all I want to thank you for sharing your ideas. What I mean is that the e-Cat that Rossi showed to us is not a masterpiece of complex technology. It is a boiler. Rossi said that the recharging it will cost a few euros. With an appropriate design a 1 MW plant will have “blade” e-Cats plugged in a “rack” with water in/out and electric power for resistor and other. At 8-10 KW each you have to “plug” 120 about modules (including spares). 2.000 euros for a module is a realistic cost. The “rack” can cost about 80.000 – 110.000 euros with its controls, pumps and safety systems. This approach will make possible a simple update every time the e-cat “blade” will be improved. So, at the bottom line I don’t see more than 350.000 of production costs. 30.000 euros to transport and install it. Am I so wrong? So, I think the 1 million price is only to make a strong selection on the buyers, keeping away who they do not like…

    • http://aotearoaisnotforsale.com Linda

      This is capitalism… the 5 year payback period on projects like this is to satisfy all of the parasitic interests of the non-producers, the bankers, the rich investors, the brokers, the lawyers and this ilk. These people don’t produce anything, they don’t work, they don’t design, the don’t research, they don’t manufacture, they don’t add anything to the technology. All they do is siphon off profits and protect monopoly interests. This adds an enormous drag, and huge costs to everything.

      This is why we could go to the moon in 1969 in only 8 years starting from scratch, but today, we can’t do it in 20 years for less than a trillion dollars… because everybody (except the workers of course) has to make a monopoly profit.

      Do you dream about eCats running the world, producing free energy? Well, we have gone from “effectively free energy” to “5 year payback” in less than 12 months. What has changed? Rossi got investors.

      This is why software went open source, because it was monopoly priced, and big companies got crazy with greed. So developers who loved software for its own sake said, NO! Open Source was born.

      We just have to accept that in a capitalist system, you either socialize the technology through Open Source, or you accept that you will NEVER see your dreams fulfilled in the timeframes and for the costs you know to be possible. Monopolists stick together – big oil is going to be protected by the cold fusion companies – Rossi has already said this. The military will get theirs first, the power companies will get theirs, there will never be a home eCat that doesn’t plug into a powerpoint, and as for putting eCats in cars and buses, forget it. That will not happen in our lifetimes.

      The only way to avoid this scenario is to create an Open Source eCat project. Not a Gary Wright eCat project either. A real one. That does not mean hardware on day 1, it begins by creating an open source knowledge base. It can be done.

      • andrea

        I agree with every word.

      • kend

        Linda’s post is about the best comment and suggestion ever. I have no engineering, physics, metalworking or any similar experience, or I would volunteer to jumpstart this and get ‘er done . There are a plethora of good ideas to build on what we already know and I, and a thousand others, stand ready to help.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

        in fact if you are concerned for good reason, your diagnostic might be flawed.

        What you descripe as capitalism/market is in fact true, but is the non-really-free-market.

        If you read “the next convergence” he explain clearly that during a transition, the governement, especially democratic, typically defent the incumbent, the monopoly, the existing jobs, instead of helping people to adapt to the new technology, to help news companies to feed the growth…

        crony/monopolitic capitalism is working well with demagogy to block the increase of productivity, of wealth, in order to let the usual lucky actors (big and small, corporate and salarymen) continue to work as usual…

        today it is even more complex, because the governements are so impopular that some ultra-libera groups lobby the politicioa so that government no more even do usual researchs, but delegate to private sector… and private sector is not so good in long terme research, and just take the subsidies pretending to make research, but doing just predictable improvement…

        the tragedy of renewable energies is a good example. To have renewable energy usable in few decades we needed to have research, because it consume more energy and cash than it produce… the old method would have been to make a big research program funded by government, like it have been done for nuclear energy.

        but the time have changed and STATE IS EVIL. so the crony economist proposed to push private companies to do research. since they won’t do it for nothing, the idea , de delirant idea, was to pay them to produce inefficiently massive volume of energy with useless method, so they have incentive to make it less innefficient,, and maybe in 10-20 years, usefull for the economy…

        I translate: we pay billions of subsidies, and massive consumption of expensive energy, to push some companies to invest few millions in research, by the way…

        The mission of the state is to help the new economy, to invest in longterm asset like research and education, give kickstart to high potential industry, to helpe people to be in good health and mental state, with high adapted competence, and not to bailout zombies companies in the hope that it prevent workers to change from their hopeless job, and the shareholder to incur losses.

        about opensource, as an IT expert I’ve seen the opensource community collapse into semi-commercial teams, because the academic places, the corporate research teams, where people could afford to share in the 70s, became managed like greedy corps.

        we have to put back state to it’s useful mission of supporting peoples, educating them, maintaining them in good condition, caring of the system infrastructure, and less to demagogy and crony-capitalism, supporting zombie business and zombie jobs, and other big and small lobbies.

        really “The next convergence” deserve to be read.

  • Max S

    shutdownrossi.com is back online

  • Patrik

    If reality is this, its a crime to not expand the business faster. Why dont Rossi get a third party to validate that the original e-cat works. Then he could get billions upon billions of dollar of investment money, and he could within a year have a company with 40 production factorys all over the world and with that production lead he would never have any problems with competitors even if they know the e-cat secret.

    Why does he not do this. He could have the biggest company in the world wihin a year. All that is needed is validation by a national institute. This would be the logical way, since once he goes to market the secret will get out. Best would be to have a massive production capability at launch so that when competitiors find out the secret it would not matter.

    We know Rossi can produce them cheap, he has said so. We know the world would buy e-cats faster than any company in the world today could produce them. And we know Rossi is finished with the warm water producing e-cat. We also know Rossi has designed a production system and factory line, he has clearly stated so.

    That he does not do this i madness. Its the most stupid business mistake I have ever seen. Validate it with a national institute, take in the billions, upon bilions in investment throu stock emissions while Rossi keep 55% of the stock shares. Wich mean Rossi would control the company.

    He would then launch with production capacaty that noone could match. He would also have a multi billion dollar companys strength with wich to battle whatever issues that come up, like certification and law suits at patent copiers.

    One validation from one national institute wich should be easy enough for Rossi to achieve and he could then have all this before next summer. What in the world is he doing when he does not run it like this? I dont get it.

    • Ivan_cev

      Exactly…The more they retard a real validation and test the closer celani, Abundo and others will be. He behavior of the e-cat owners make no sense.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      “Why dont Rossi get a third party to validate that the original e-cat works.” According to him, this is exactly what they are doing. Started 2 months ago, will last still 2-3 months. Not only hotcat, but also the cool one.

      • Patrik

        ok, but it can be done in a few hours actually. Are you sure your not thinking about certification rather?

        An investor wont care about how it works, universities and scienteists do that, but not investors. Investors only want to know that its not radiating and wont explode and gives warm water. If they know that thew would plow billions into his company to get a part of the coming profits.

      • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

        Patrik: yes technically it can be done in a few hours once the setup is ready, but making the data analysis, making repeated measurements, perfecting the setup and writing and re-writing the report takes months. For credibility it must be done by academic people, and for such people, one month is a minimum unit of time that they can even consider for any task.

        • Patrik

          Nah, academic people has less crediblity in business than well known companys or institutions. I would use a world respectable companys measurements in a heartbeat as grounds for an investment. Not so with a university or an academic.

          Thats why NI´s involvement is so interesting, unfortunatly they as a company has not made an validation.

          Your confusing the science world with the business world a bit.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            If the goal is a peer-reviewed paper as they are stating now, then the job is done by PhDs and it takes months. If those PhDs work for universities, research institutes or companies doesn’t much affect the time. If the goal is not peer-reviewed, then it can be done faster.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            What gets a businessman’s attention is word that his competitor has bought technology that puts him at a competitive advantage.

        • Omega Z

          Pekka Janhunen

          They don’t realize what’s involved with a Totally New product & marketing. Growing a new business & the pitfalls that can crush you.

          The Placing of a few dozen products to market gaining Data before going forward. Fixing any problems while still small. Verses 10′s of thousands of unit’s with unknown potential problems & Liabilities that can break even the best Companies in start-up. Then there’s Read Tape, Bureaucracy, Politics among other holdups.

          Also they don’t Consider that the Hot Cat is nothing but a proof of concept at this time & probably isn’t even in final design. Rossi did imply working on a new design just recently. There is no such thing as a few hours.

          Personally, I’d be surprised if we see an E-cat that’s tied to a turbine ready for market within a year.

    • Karl

      What you say seems logical but I imagine Rossi consider:

      1) experiences from other CF/LENR companies verifications (BLP and other)
      2) the climate of debunking any serious announcement whoever the motive, competitors, big oil etc.

      The type and level of funding seem to be fairly limited and fragile in comparison to what the LENR segment is worth and what surely will be needed in the end. The level of funding from Hydrofusion is such an example. A bunch of private investors investing $10million which is good but this is peanuts for what he could get from somewhat larger venture capital firms.

      I understand that Rossis reluctance to lose control to early. I believe clumsy investors as well as innovators that hold to tight can destroy any promising project – it certainly demands a fine balance act to succeed.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Once more, in the absence of a patent, I would advise Rossi to refrain from selling any hardware, but to sell only heat &/or electricity.

    • Max S

      Patrick,
      you made some good points. If the device is real and would pass an independent 3rd party performance test, why are they not delivering such a test and make it public. I agree with you this is incompetence in business. This attitude is hard to understand unless…… That is why many people are sceptical in fact.

  • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

    admin: Proia, not Prioa. In several places including title, sometimes also correct though.

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    It’s good to hear from a hard-headed businessman who is also a true believer. We will need a lot of these to bring this technology into the forefront of the electrical-generation mainstream.

    • Ivan_cev

      They still need to prove they able to constently produce heat! lets ask Rossi for heat, the rest will came by itself.

      • Warthog

        The “Nanor” device demonstrated at MIT produced documented excess heat for MONTHS ON END, yet your (and others) denial of reality continues. Standard skeptopath propaganda.

  • Andrew Macleod

    5 yr ROI is pretty good. This is a good way to bolster economys and let business flourish, once enough units are in operation they will gather huge amounts of data helping further their domestic ecat efforts and increase capital to expand. I think it’s a solid business plan.

  • Redford

    “less than five years” ? That’s a price entirely driven by “what they can pay”, not “what does it cost to produce and what would be a fair pricing to help humanity”. This kind of pricing is just allowing the rich to make some saving and be richer. And then they talk about african villages…

    E-Cat may very well be real but it’s clear it’s not Leonardo’s project to make it a big helper, a life changer. They want to make something just good enough to make you pay their price. I do hope they get some healthy competition.

    • Ivan_cev

      Yes, I agree, they do not care about humanity, just profit.
      lest hope they have the product, some times greed is two sided sword.
      good luck to them!

    • Max S

      5 years ROI for whom ?
      Looking at the enormous spread of price/KW of the 1MW vs domestic e-cat immediately shows how absurd the situation is, and it is clear that somebody in the chain (Rossi ?) would make a dramatically higher profit (assuming it would be real).

    • Egregio

      Why should they give out their technology for free? Do you work to help humanity or to make a profit for yourself and your family? Besides, after having been ridiculized, accused, criticised, laughed at, insulted, etc. for years you certainly wouldn’t even think to help the “humanity”, not for free at least. If i were Rossi i would be actually quite angry by now and i would seriously consider if let the e-cat out of the bag (helping the same persons who ridiculized me) or not (let them just pay the consequences of their stupidity).

      Whatever the goals of Rossi&Co are though the eCat will be a good thing for humanity in general, under several aspects, and it wouldn’t exist if Rossi didn’t decide to pursue his goals, no matter which goals they might be, even if it is just for profit.

      • Redford

        “Why should they give out their technology for free?”

        Where did I say that ? I am just noticing it’s price driven by the market, and a clear demonstration how this kind of pricing, without a healthy competition, is a shoot in the leg of mankind as a specie.

        Some people expect humans to be as low as they want because they believe in the market as a magical thing that automatically build an optimum just because. I am past teenagehood, the age required to believe thing can be that simple. Market is a tool that doesn’t fit all situation and if no competition shows up, it’s clear that such a pricing will only help the ones who can afford a 5 y returns, ie rich and banks (if they’re still there and if they still lend money). Flat fact. Now for everyone supporting e-Cat because they hope it to improve drastically things for our civilisations, this flat fact is pretty depressing by itself.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      It is the profit motive that makes the world of free enterprise go round. The only condition I would worry about is if someone maintains a monopoly on the technology and charges exorbitant prices. A payback of less than five years is very attractive to a business. The fact that it is a nonpolluting source of energy makes it doubly attractive. You would have difficulty supporting your assertion that he is not working for the betterment of mankind as it is very early in the game.

      • Redford

        “It is the profit motive that makes the world of free enterprise go round.”

        No, that’s one of the thing. If that was just profit you just go out and kill your competitors, put addictive substance in the food you sell, make products out of dead people etc. The reason while those things that could also be very profitable aren’t common business practice is because people do have other consideration than just profit for themselves. We rarely think of it but we constantly make concession so we can work as a society and as a specie. There’s a relatively recent trend to say “forget moral and ethics, they’re outdated and the market will compensate for the best”. Well it won’t, most of the time. So make it profitable, make it very profitable, but do consider other thing than just profit. Are African villages able to make 5y return investment ATM ? Damn, even euro cities will have trouble to do this ATM.

        • Omega Z

          Redford

          5 year pay back is nothing verse 25 to 30 year payback on Coal, Gas, or Nuclear power plants. Or 20 year payback for solar or wind at greatly increased prices per Kwh.

          The E-cat is actually the Cheap part of the Process. Low price, low maintenance. Those $30 million plus Turbines that have to go with it with constant upkeep & maintenance is what hurts.

          You also can’t compare a 10Kw home E-cat with an Industrial 1Mw E-cat. The Home unit is simple & can be assembled by Robots on an assemble line & uses cheaper components.

          The Industrial 1Mw Low Temp runs at Higher temps (About 30`C higher), Requires much more expensive materials to be more Robust which all have to be integrated so that if 1 core stops working, the System in total keeps working. Has to be manually hand built, Delivered & setup.

          After many 1Mw units are built & details have all been figured out, There will be regular Manufacturing facilities built. Probably a several hundred million dollars invested minimum for a single plant. This requires a large profit margins.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

          I places like Russia they do kill their competitors; in businesses like the tobacco industry, they intentionally made the product more addictive; in China, until recently, they were making “soy sauce” from hair. It is all driven by the profit motive but restrained by morality codified as laws. If you want LENR to really take root the company that introduces it must protect their intellectual property and make a profit to allow expansion. The higher the profit the greater the rate of expansion. If you limit them to 2% return on investment it would take fifty years to spread the devices, provided there is not a bump in the economy that puts such weak company out of business. If they can make 10% or more LENR will be virtually everywhere within two decades.