Report from Zurich Conference Attendee

The following report has been submitted by E. Günther who attended this weekend’s E-Cat Conference in Zurich. Many thanks!

1) Many interesting people from different areas there. Quite some interested physicists like me but even more with less scientific but more business interest. Also there was a slight touch of esoterism. Of course rossi is on the way of becoming sort of a Messiah for all suppressed scientists (and those who think they are or are for a reason :) ). A hand full of reporters, quite some representatives from large organisations or consortium.

2) Going through the talks and summarizing:

a) On day one the only enlightened was the Rossi talk. Even though is was quite the opposite of packed with facts, I was interesting to see that the repot about the hot cat was done very carefully to not give any hold to criticism. I hope the report is the scientific coming out for Rossi.

b) Day two started with the Rossi discussion. From the scientific point of view my colleagues and my question was the most enlightening moment of the discussion and may be for the weekend: Rossi told very openly that he changed his opinion from his viewpoint that the energy comes from transmutation to that the transmutation of Ni is a byproduct of Gamma decay. He said, they measured in special experiments gammas with 40-100 kev. I guess all physicist like me and my friend were intrigued since there is no common decay resulting in such gamma energies. Normally you talk MeV with Gamma decays. But it is excactly what you would excpect from bremsstrahlung of a beta particle in the lattice. And beta decay of 4H to 4He is excactly what is proposed by Widom & Larson or Brioullin Energy and others. So my friend asked about Rossi’s measurement of 4He which you can measure down to 1 Atom. Rossi’s pause and reaction was hard to interpret. I have to look at his face again on youtube. He answered “Your question is very smart, and I agree”.

Everyone laughed. Hard to say if he just had a moment of insight or he already did this measurement and found exactly that and did not want to comment on it.

Other interesting remarks were about scaling: “Just stack them”, about hot-cat: “Within Month”, about tests: “wait for reports or buy and test yourself”.

c) Dr. Hans Weber held an interesting talk about converting heat. I have to check the physics first before I comment on it. His idea seems appealing. Quantisizing the entropy. His experiment would be both: A simple proof of this idea and a highly effective and cheap way to convert heat to electrical energy.

d) The talk of William donavan and Roger Green was an example of good research. They had Rossi’s attention 100%. Rossi will work with them on desalination and water purification.

3) To conclude for me: I am now pretty convinced that Rossi has what he claims. I wasn’t before. Rossi is now open about his theoretical unawareness of the physics. But all his data he published fits with what other more scientific groups found. Him being so covered became much more logic to me. First he had to look to not become a too big target of very powerful organisations. Second, from him being obviously not sure about what is happening I conclude that his devices are
likely even much simpler than expected. Every information might have set someone one in front of the race, especially if it is someone who understands the underlying physics better. So you can go though Rossi’s last 2 years and will find that from that point of view he acted very smart indeed: Nobody believed him or at least not to a level to destroy or copy him. Diversion is a smart move.

  • georgehants

    Today’s report has clearly increased the controversy to the point that only more information and facts will enlighten.
    This can take time and involve as usual much speculation, hopefully fair and sensible until resolved.
    For me I can add nothing but to wait for Evidence.

  • Sam

    Sorry if this is a bit out of topic but what is the status of the Original Home Unit…

    We have been waiting a long time for that.
    What needs to be done?

    • barty

      The home units are ready for mass production, but they have to wait for the safety cerfitication before they are able to sell them.

      • Robyn

        I thought he said that he was going to focus on the 1MW plants instead of home units. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

        Thanks

        • barty

          Yes, because at the moment he only can wait for the certification authority which is checking the domestic ecat for it’s safety.

          In the meanwhile he is focusing on the industrial versions.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

    I am posting this with some reluctance as if I am simply wrong, it comprises needless criticism, and in any case may supply fuel to the naysayers, who seem to be doing well enough on their own efforts at the moment. However I also don’t believe in keeping quiet about any doubts, simply because I stand on a particular side of the fence. I am hoping that by mentioning this here, others more knowledgeable than I can point out where I am in error.

    The following observations refer to the images in the ‘official’ document, http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123487015_1.pdf

    In the shot of the ceramic carrier for the second test (white core laid on scales), which is clearly grooved all around, we see that all four spiral windings are placed in adjacent gooves on one side of the carrier, rather than being evenly spaced around the periphery (there are grooved all around the ‘carrier’. On the picture of the partially disassembled core (seen from the non-wire end laying on a surface) we can see the cross-wire connecting two adjacent spiral windings, and image enhancement also shows a similar wire connecting the next pair of holes, confirming the fact that all four spiral resistances are placed on one side of the core. Unfortunately we don’t know the orientation of the unit during testing.

    However, with all the heater elements on one side of the core like this, there would have been a possibility that this is the side that ended up facing the camera. In this case, although the calculations were performed as if heat dissipation was even across the exterior surface, this may not have been the case. It would also explain the ‘edge anomaly’ that resulted in some fudging of the calculations.

    Of course, this assymetric heater arrangement could also have gone the other way, if the heater elements were in fact on the side away from the camera or at some intermediate position. Nonetheless, it is an area of possible doubt which should not be present, and which seems to need addressing.

    • Marius

      Yes could look that way at that angle but in the first picture in the report, its clear that the wires comes out on the opposite side.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        The first picture is of the device tested during July. The others are of a different unit (compare the end pictures).

        • Omega Z

          Peter Roe

          In that Fluted ceramic is spiral coils of the heating Element. Would be Similar to elements in a cloths dryer. Or A door spring stretched out so the coils don’t contact each other. So it doesn’t matter the position of wires. At 1200 mag, I don’t see the wires you mention.

          This could be related to Holms freezing investment on the new thread. If these coils should come in contact with each other, they can burn in-two shutting down the Cat.

          Recently READ: (1MW)low temp has 90 modules, 3 of them sleeping. „sleeping modules” will automatically turn on when another module turns off (eg when fault), stabilizing output
          No verification on this info…

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Omega – If you sharpen the image of the ceramic or fireclay carrier and increase the brightness and contrast, it is possible to make out the spirals within the grooves reasonably clearly. Like an electric dryer as you say. I am a little confused by the 4 ‘twisted pair’ feeds but possibly this is simply to reduce heating of the feed wires by doubling them in order to halve the resistance.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            On closer inspection of the images, I withdraw my comments about possible asymmetric heating. As Ged points out below, it is clear that in fact the heater elements do occupy all 20 of the channels in the carrier. It’s still not clear exactly where the ‘fuel’ is located within the carrier.

    • Ged

      Hm, which picture exactly do you mean? No matter which way I stare at each of the pictures, it looks like the heating elements are on both sides of the pipe. This includes the white version sitting on the scales — you can see the two wires are on opposite sides of the cylinder from each other, it is impossible for them to be both on the same side. We can only see into four of the ribbed sections between the ceramics, those four are serviced by only two of the four wires, with the other two wires on the opposite side of the cylinder, and it looks evenly distributed…

      So.. hm… It seems symmetrical to me, so I’m not sure exactly what you’re seeing…

  • Methusela

    New article at ecatnews:

    http://ecatnews.com/?p=2417

    “UPDATE

    With thanks to Mats Lewan at NyTeknik, he has just informed me that the Swedes have halted their eCat investment after the failed tests. The article is in Swedish but Google translates it well:”

    • georgehants

      This would seem a very fair statement that means everything is on hold until the full results are published.
      It is now up to Rossi to put forward more proof of his technology if he wishes.

    • Renzo

      “After measurement, Hydro Fusion announced investment offer withdrawn, and that the company will now examine whether the measurements affects the entire ECAT technology or just the new model”

      • Haldor

        No 1mw validation is still in course:

        ” It is important to make a clear distinction between högtemperaturprototypen, which test measurement has been made, and the recent safety certified 1 MW plant. We work for a separate validation of the 1 MW plant full operation, says Magnus Holm.”

    • Wolf

      What I find interesting is that they say that the input power has been two to three times higher than what Rossi measured… What else did he “mismeasure”?

      • Stanny Demesmaker

        The hot e-cat doesn’t have a self sustaining mode yet, that’s why the COP was lower then the low temperature e-cat. Because he always claimed a COP of 6, a lower COP can raise suspicion. If the measurements are higher dan 2, he would have no problem finding other investors.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

        the mistake seems that Rossi instrument measure much lower input power (3x) than the University TrueRMS tools…

        I initially thought it was RMS against apparent, but the effect is the opposite.
        Normally if you measure voltage and current, and just multiply, you get apparent power and it can be much higher if the current is dephased from tension, or if there is spikes.

        on possibility could be to have a squared current en voltage, in-phase, but if you use a dumb meter, it can only divide by 2 the apparent power from the real one.

        To divide by tree, you have to feed in signal that is filtered out by the dumb meter, but not by the RMS one.
        If you power the e-ca with high-frequency current, it can behave like that… but in tha case the apparent power will be null… to have just 3, it is hard…

        Rossi is ridiculing LENR, and killing himself.
        In fact it does not impact LENR, or other business players, but for public relation it is catastrophic.

        note that all my critic only hold if the report by NYTeknik is exact… We should check if it is so serious. It can be less dramatic.

        anyway hydrofusion stall is serious.

        • Omega Z

          Alain

          According to the report in NyTeknik Rossi was using Tru RMS instruments.

          I’ve read recently that they have been having problems with incoming power fluctuation & have been trying to fix it. This is not an Isolated problem. It’s the norm. My 1st experience with this was in the 80’s working on a video image to computer transfer hardware & Software. Sometimes great, Sometimes Crap. The Problem-Voltage spikes. There’s a reason things are designed with 10% plus or minus voltage variance. Wind turbines & Solar is partly why they talk about building Smart Grids. They make the problem much worse. You can only build products with so much variance before they no longer work.

          My 1st thought was they need a line voltage Equalizer. You know the devices sold that save you a bunch on your Electric bill. Some say they work. Some say they don’t. My guess is weather you suffer major spikes in your service. Hit or Miss & no one has a tech to check it out.

          Anyway my 2nd thought was to fix the problem at the product as Rossi seems to be trying to do. Because in the real world most wont have a line equalizer.

          Which brings up a problem with people being off grid. If you produce your own electricity, It’s not a use it or lose it process. It’s a Use it or Burn something up process. Home Generating will cost much more then most realize to implement. That’s an entire Story in itself.

  • Patrik

    I wrote yesterday how I have tried to order a 1 MW plant. I also critisised the amateurish conference.

    Today we got a explanation why Magnus Holm never apperared. He has issued a pressrelease today that when he and his company was allowed to measure on e-cat before investing 65 million. No energy was found to be produced.

    Confidence level of e-cat is definatly at an all time low as far as I am concerned. I am very dissapointed.

    • georgehants

      Patrik, thank you, link please.

    • Renzo

      Please don’t twist the facts: the press release is about the 1200° ecat prototype, they say nothing bad about the 200° version.

      • Patrik

        No, but they dont sell the old version, and havent tested it.

        I fear than the new versions that appear, each one promising more is to keep us all from demanding to see the first one validated to actually work.

        Think about it, if all these new versions had not been teased to us we would all demand to see the original version at work. Wich we were promised was only a few months away back in february 2011. Thats a long time ago now.

        • Francesco CH

          It seems that the Swedes have problems now

          • Wolf

            Write who? Who already posesses a 1MW plant? We know of no company which already has a plant and can verify that it works.

            As Patrik wrote yesterday, he (as part of a group of investors) already tried to buy one -> no success. And there is also the Australian-version with the famous website shutdownrossi.com, which more and more “shines” in a different light…

            Edit: My reply was targeted to a different text that Francesco previously has written. However he changed the content…

            • Omega Z

              Tell it all

              Patrik wants it for heating apartments so he says. That’s not industrial. There only allowed for Industrial use at this time.

        • jedslater

          Yeah! that looks weird but could be smoke to confuse.

  • AB

    Summary of the event from my point of view:

    The conference was unprofessional. It seems likely that none of the licensees were ever given proof of the ecat working as claimed. In addition, the only speaker besides Rossi who could potentially know the truth was Ing. Fulvio Fabiani. The saying “putting the cart before the horse” comes to mind.

    The involvement of SGS and Siemens AG is good news. These are potentially verifiable claims that should be investigated. Until confirmed, they remain rumor though.

    Hydrofusion’s press release is refreshingly professional.

    I would say overall this event has hurt Rossi’s credibility. Bring on the third party validations.

    • georgehants

      AB, good comment except what the hell are you talking about, “Hydrofusion’s press release is refreshingly professional.”—-
      Unless something has changed it says nothing, just a dead brained denial.
      Just like some “opinion expert” standing up and saying UFO’s don’t exist because I say so.

  • georgehants

    It may be time to point out a reality.
    There is now only one popular Website that follows Cold Fusion with a completely open-mind, E-Cat World,
    The whole of the internet has been subdued into mostly attacking Cold Fusion and Rossi in particular.
    I believe it is not being paranoid to say the Frank and a few of us committed to open-minded, caring for the World and Truth are in danger.
    If Frank is offered a sum of money to sell out, or threatened, then of a population of 7 billion? just half a dozen will be left to defend Cold Fusion.
    Frank are you going to stay the course, I will not submit and I feel a few others feel the same way.
    How can such a technological breakthrough still be on the fringes of acceptance.
    only by a concerted effort from the powers that be.

    • Peter Poulsen

      Please take that tinfoil hat off your head, and realise there isnt some big conspiracy going on.

      We just lack proper evidence. Nothing more nothing less. Of course people wont invest money unless they are presented with evidence.

      • Andrew Macleod

        George’s concerns are valid! I believe his concern is about openmindedness and fair positive disscussions. Most other websites are very negitive. Negitivity festers like an infected wound. “let’s figure out how Rossi has faked his results this time” is not openmindedness, conclusions have already been made. We all want the proof. Some of the regular posters here have very good input and know a great deal about the science and math behind it all, if they were left to post on other sites their valuable input would be lost in the screams of fraud.

      • georgehants

        Peter, are you commenting on the facts of a lack of open-minded Websites.
        The fact of Wiki-rubbish being rubbish, or just my opinion of the meaning of these things.

        • Ivan_Cev

          All this is the consequence of unprofessional testing, where are the CONTROL devices, I have been postulating in different web sites for months. Any one could agree that LENR market is in the trillions, so a professional approach is needed.
          When testing, more than one active device is needed in case of unexpected failure.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

    It doesn’t really belong on this thread, but if I post this back on the correct topic (“China Grants Patent for Brillouin Energy LENR Boiler Technology”) it will be lost, so I’m sticking it here!

    A couple of people expressed what appeared to be doubt about the veracity of the reported patent, so I contacted Brillouin at the time to ask for confirmation. After a bit of to and fro’ing I’ve now heard back from them with the following: “I can confirm as the CFO of Brillouin Energy that we were recently granted a patent in China on our original application.”

    • georgehants

      Well done Peter, but I feel that the powers that be are winning at the moment.
      Hope your life insurance is up to date.

  • Haldor

    I think the following statements are related:

    Hydro fusion press release:
    Hydro Fusion witnessed a new independent test of the high temperature ECAT prototype reactor on September 6th in Bologna. Although no full report has yet been received, early indications are that the results of the July 16th/August 7th reports could not be reproduced.

    Hydro Fusion cannot at this stage support any claims made, written or other, about the amount of excess heat generated by the new high temperature ECAT prototype.
    ————————————————————–
    ON WHICH ROSSI REACTS:

    Andrea Rossi
    September 9th, 2012 at 6:07 PM
    Dear Brian:
    It is necessary that I repeat the following statement:
    THE HOT CAT ( REACTOR AT HIGH TEMPERATURE) HAS NOT BEEN YET VALIDATED, BECAUSE THE TESTS AND THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE STILL TO BE COMPLETED, AND TO COMPLETE THEM WILL BE NECESSARY AT LEAST 2-3 MORE MONTHS. I SAID THIS IN MY REPORT IN ZURICH AND I REPEAT THIS HERE.
    THE PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING THESE TESTS ARE SPECIALISTS AND THEIR WORK IS COMPLEX. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MEASUREMENT OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS TO BE MADE IN A WAY THAT IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, SO NOW WE ARE REPEATING THE MEASUREMENTS USING A VARIAC TO AVOID THAT ENERGY USED BY THE RESISTANCES IS NOT MEASURED BY THE VOLTMETER AND THE AMPEROMETER ( THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY ISSUES THAT ARE UNDER PROBE). THEREFORE IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG TO USE THE EXPRESSION ” THE ENGINEERS WHO PERFORMED THE PUBLISHED VALIDATION”, WHILE IS CORRECT THE EXPRESSION ” THE PROFESSORS AND THE ENGINEERS WHO ARE PERFORMING THE VALIDATION IN COURSE”.
    THE FINAL RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINE ONLY AFTER THE VALIDATION WILL HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
    I AM RECEIVING FROM MANY PERSONS THIS QUESTION: ” IS IT POSSIBLE TO INVEST IN THE HOT CAT”? MY ANSWER IS: NO, IT IS NOT, BECAUSE THE REACTOR FOR HIGH TEMPERATURES IS NOT READY, IS NOT AS PRODUCT, IS A PROTOTYPE SUBJECT TO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND I WANT NOT TO PUT ANYBODY AT RISK BEFORE THE HOT CAT IS NOT YET A PRODUCT. OF COURSE I BELIEVE IN IT, I AM INVESTING MY MONEY IN IT, BUT I WANT NOT TO PLAY FOOT BALL WITH THE BONES OF THE OTHERS.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi
    ————————————————————–

    • barty

      “[…]
      HAS NOT BEEN YET VALIDATED, BECAUSE THE TESTS AND THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE STILL TO BE COMPLETED, AND TO COMPLETE THEM WILL BE NECESSARY AT LEAST 2-3 MORE MONTHS.
      […]
      THE FINAL RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINE ONLY AFTER THE VALIDATION WILL HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
      […]”

      So we have to wait another 2-3 months to see something about it in a scientific magazine? :(

      • Francesco CH

        Yes.

        • barty

          Francesco, the domestic low temperature ecat is working fine, or isn’t it?

          It’s only the missing safety certification what makes it unable to be sold now?

          If it’s working stable and ready for mass production, why isn’t Rossi giving some “showcase ecat’s” to his licensee?

          So they could show it to their potential customers, maybe behind a glass box, so no one can find out the secrets ;)

          If I could see one in action here in germany, I would plan a weekend trip :)

          • georgehants

            barty, always a good point, there seems to be something in Rossi’s makeup that refuses to do that one test that will completely confirm the technology.
            Life was never meant to be simple.

          • Francesco CH

            To barty:

            domestic low temperature ecats work perfectly. You have to ponder that the industrial 1MW plant is composed by one hundreds small 10kW E-Cats. So, if Rossi gets the certifications for the DOMESTIC apparatuses then he will be able to build them almost immediately.

            About the rest: time will tell…

            • barty

              Thank you for this important information!

              But is a safty certification absolutely neccessary for a “showcase ecat”?
              Only one device working behind a glass pane. So nobody can touch it, open it, see whats going on in it, but everyone can feel the heat, and look what wires are going in.

              It would be impressive to see a working one with own eyes…

              • Casey

                He still have no patent on it.
                There is no sense to put e-cat on show, if he can not sale it.
                To put it on show in present situation, it need to set up security so nobody can get to his secrets. It can create some problems.

            • Max S

              in that case, why does Rossi not carry out an independent 3rd party test with the working device, the simple domestic cold cat ?
              That would be sufficient at this stage. Why all the fuss about hot cat, why risk credibilty with a unproven system ?

              • Casey

                It was done, by representative of the military customer in October of 2011.
                If 1MW work, it mean every 10kW e-cat work.

                • Balatelli

                  In that case, show us the report, tell us where to get it or link to a source.
                  “Rossi says” and Classified reports for the military do not count. The point is the public does not believe it.

    • Karl

      It seems strange that Hydrofusion excuse their dropout from the conference by the non availability of the final test reports of the latest prototype development which they do not have to market yet of course. Reasonably, they should be happy join the other resellers we saw at the conference. Thus, going on start selling the existing 1 MW low temperature device.

      • Omega Z

        Karl

        Hydrofusion is already a licensee. That fee is in escrow.

        The aprox. $10 million was to buy in as a partner/shareholder. Most likely because of the Express purpose that the H-Cat may Produce Electricity. If it can’t perform, then they may prefer to just be a reseller of the Low temp 1Mw E-cat. As a Partner/shareholder that money is at risk. Even Venture Capitol want’s some guarantees. A Working prototype. If the H-cat becomes fully certified, they will proceed with the deal even before it produces Electricity. If not, when it produces it’s first watts the price will easily increase by at least another zero.

  • morse

    I am visiting this website every week (it was more a few months ago) but I also have a personal life :-) I noticed that it is almost the same people that write a comment and have a feeling the site is not growing much. But that doesn’t bother me. I like the way news is presented and I am looking forward to the day that a real working prototype is shown to the world !

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Many more people ‘lurk’ than comment I think, but either way we are still something of a small band. It’ll probably stay that way for a while, at least if the mainstream media have anything to do with it.

  • Andrew Macleod

    After further reading I came across some discussions Reguarging low emmisive paints. Can these paints affect the data in a major way?

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      I think probably only by failing to radiate 100% of the heat to be dissipated at wavelengths the IR camera can ‘see’. In this case, the data will of course under-estimate the amount of heat being produced, as proportionately more heat will then be lost through convection.

      • daniel maris

        Wasn’t it the concern the other way round – that if Rossi deliberately over-estimated the emissivity of the paint – the build up of heat would be misrepresented as a higher COP? I;m not saying that is my view – but I thought that was the suggestion.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          I think the assumption in the calculations was that 100% of the heat being dissipated was emitted by the painted surface, but I could be wrong. In any case I can’t see any way that more heat could be detected over a period of stable operation, than is actually present, due to some characteristic of the paint layer.

          Zedshort or Ged?

          • Ged

            Yep, you’re exactly right, Peter.

            The report specifically states the emissivity is estimated as 1 (100%). For reference, the human body also is estimated with an emissivity of 1 when doing heat loss calculations and IR camera work.

            Basically, most non metallic compounds have an emissivity close enough to be approximated as 1, and the paint is specifically meant for that. If it was the bare pipe, this would not necessarily be true.

            Emissivity ranges from 0 – 1. A lower emissivity means less heat is detectible by radiation, and thus the device would have made more heat than we saw using black body.

            Here’s an awesome table of all sorts of materials and their emissivities http://www.optotherm.com/emiss-table.htm

    • Omega Z

      Andrew Macleod

      The Purpose of the black paint is for the camera to work properly. It keeps the steel from being visibly red or shades there of. It Allows for very accurate temp readings. It’s used mostly by Military studies of engine temps. Research.

  • cleanthinking

    Here is our report about the conference in Zuerich: http://bit.ly/ECAT-Zuerich (translated into english via Google)

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      The writer is to be congratulated on a clever piece of writing that superficially appears to be an objective report, but in fact, by focusing on all negative aspects of the conference, and ignoring all positive developments, is clearly designed to undermine Rossi and the e-cat.

      I assume that the writer of this report sees the e-cat as a threat to the ‘renewable’ technologies that the Clean Thinking site promotes. Similar trumping of widespread benefit by private economic interest has been seen a number of times within the ‘renewable energy’ industry.

    • barty

      I think this is the most important sentence in that article:

      “Die Rahmenbedingungen der Konferenz mit unprofessioneller Technik (beispielsweise fehlt eine Smultan-Übersetzung, was heutzutage bei int. Konferenzen üblich ist) und eben solchen Vorträgen insbesondere aus inhaltlicher Sicht, lassen eher den Schluss zu, dass keiner der Lizenznehmer wirklich einen funktionierenden E-CAT gesehen hat und aus dieser Erfahrung berichten kann.”

      None of the licensee’s which organized the conference, and held presentations ever saw a working ecat with own eyes.
      Probably Hydrofusion saw one, and that’s the reason why they canceled their presence shortly befor starting the conference.

      This conference was a big step backwards for Rossi and the trustworthy of his claims.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        You consider a sentence that essentially says that there was no simultaneous translation provided, and Rossi did not produce a glowing hot cat at the conference, to be important?

        Desperation hardly begins to describe such nit-picking criticisms.

        • barty

          I meant the last part of that sentence.

          “…lassen eher den Schluss zu, dass keiner der Lizenznehmer wirklich einen funktionierenden E-CAT gesehen hat und aus dieser Erfahrung berichten kann.”

          The unprofessional show, and the mostly incompetent presentations make the appearance none of the licensee’s has ever seen a working ecat, and so none of them has experiences how stable the ecat is, how easy or hard to control and so on.
          They just believe in Rossis claims.

          Gerd Neumann, one of the german licensee group, has said that he himself never saw an ecat running.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            That’s the sentence I meant, too. I was paraphrasing.

          • Francesco CH

            The simple fact that this article from cleanthinking.de mentions a website like SHUTROSSIDOWN (that has the photo of Cures’ face – with the word “WANTED” like in the wild west posters of the criminals – in its home page) disqualified the entire article.

            Hence in my opinion this article from cleanthinking.de is total rubbish.

          • Andrew Macleod

            The key wording in this article is “makes the appearance”, this is an opinion based on speculation.

          • Omega Z

            barty

            Technically, The 2 people from India & Green from Australia have seen a working E-cat. However not a full Demo that I know of. I’m speaking of the Video from February when Rossi explains the workings & the Computer graphs. Thou not stated, I believe the E-cat unit they saw was one out of the Big 1Mw container being reconditioned & checked for shipment.

      • Karl

        These guys are probably just scared, they see conventional green energy (bio, wind, sun) which they obviously promote, risk go down the drain with the emergence of Cold Fusion technologies.

        They also take a well-known stand by now, like criticising Rossi as a person and silly comments on translations.

        However, I think we need a better explanation on the stand of Hydrofusion. Is this the beginning of a split between them and Leonardo? Are they partnering with someone else?

        Who know what’s really going on behind the frontline of the obvious “infowar”?

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          HydroFusion appears to exist in order to market the e-cat, and by all appearances will go ahead with selling 1MW low temp. units. It’s very difficult to understand why they would deliberately try to distance themselves from one potential product, while wanting the sell the other. They obviously have genuine doubts about the hot cat tests/demos but wouldn’t it have been better to simply keep quiet until further data was available? As you say, who knows what is really going on.

  • AstralProjectee

    Thanks a lot E Günther.

  • andre blum

    Excellent article. Thanks!

  • Francesco CH

    !!!VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION!!!

    THE COMPLETE TEXT OF THE RELATION IS THIS ONE AND ONLY THIS ONE THAT YOU CAN FIND HERE:

    http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123487015_1.pdf

    THIS IS THE ONLY TEXT YOU CAN CONSIDER AS OFFICIAL.

    THANKS

  • admin

    http://hydrofusion.com/news/press-release

    Hydro Fusion witnessed a new independent test of the high temperature ECAT prototype reactor on September 6th in Bologna. Although no full report has yet been received, early indications are that the results of the July 16th/August 7th reports could not be reproduced.

    Hydro Fusion cannot at this stage support any claims made, written or other, about the amount of excess heat generated by the new high temperature ECAT prototype.

    • Pachu

      lol ?

      So this people got a lawyer ??

      wtf ??

      • Francesco CH

        No, because they sell another product.

        Actually, Rossi is developing four products:

        °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

        (from the brochure -in Italian – of Prometeon, page two)

        http://www.22passi.it/Presentazione_Prometeon_Zurigo_8_settembre_2012.pdf

        1. E-Cat heat to power. Ordered and available – Minimum output*: 1 MW

        2. E-Cat heat with gas (Gas Cat). We accept pre-orders – Minimum output: 1 MW

        3. E-Cat Electric stand-alone. In development – Minimum output:> 10 MW

        4. E-Cat heat-power cogeneration (Hot Cat). Being developed by Siemens AG

        °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

        Hydrofusion sell the 1.

    • Michael

      Maybe we will observe a step by-step withdrawal of e-cat marketing efforts etc ending in a statement that the e-cat process is working, but it cannot be used in a commercial product yet due to some stability problems …..or something………and we will never know the real details about the e-cat.

    • Michael

      It seems that the Swedish Testing Institute (SP), made measurements during the Sept 6 test. Maybe the first time an independent and skilled organisation was doing it….and the results were not encouraging to say the least. No thermal energy exceeding the electric input could be measured/observed..and this was a few days before Mr Rossi made his presentation in Zürich.

      • georgehants

        Michael, link please.
        Thank you.

  • Filip47

    Mr Andrea Rossi: The Good, the Bad or the Ugly?

    Let’s hope he’s not a ‘Tania Head’.
    At the moment I am very very carefull with my hopes and expectations.
    Mr Rossi is acting very nervous, looking into papers and not reading, looking at his watch al the time, breathing heavely, etc, I wonder what’s behind all this, I think there’s much we don’t know, whether this is good or bad.

    I don’t have the scientific background to interprete all the data. I am just relying on my instincs, the psychology behind all this.
    Don’t get me wrong, I still support everyone who follows this up very closely and giving me the chance to even have an opinion at all. Especially Frank Acland.
    Thanks!

    • jacob

      Filip47,there is no point at watching Rossi’s reactions and trying to read his mind,if you go by your instincts and feelings you may get nowhere.
      After all the evidence ,the doubters still still still doubt.
      why is that?

      It is overwhelming ,the fact that this is not making CNN or mayor media,it may seem surreal to many.

      The truth is,free energy has been around forever,but the knowledge to harness it has been eliminated.

      In the not to distant past , mountains of books were burned and witches were hunted down and burned at the stake, we live in a world where knowledge has been purged.

      To many of us, books of fiction contains more truth than nonfiction books.

      I was better off, not believing anything that was taught about history
      and human evolution , Big oil is just a monopoly ,the price is set by unfair evaluation , Big has shelved more free energy devices than anyone could imagine .

      How things appear, is taking as reality , but this reality is only a illusion created by those who masterfully created it.

      Each and every one of us can create our own reality ,we all have that ability.

      My reality is what I created ,the life I wanted ,the goal of independance ,self sufficiency ,grow my own food , have a life to share with my special lady , create masterpieces ,and free energy devices ,once the forces of nature are understood ,the sky is the limit.

      The power of enertia is my secret .

      Why does it take a car 4 times as long to stop ,by going twice as fast,therein lies the secret.

      combine that with the slingshot effect ,which NASA used in space to double the speed of space probes , you will after many years also understand it’s surplus energy.

      But for now to overcome that you presently know,which is a lot of bunk,and you don’t know yet,what is bunk and what not.

      To start over you have to let go of what has been taught in schools about science and start with a clean slate,erase what you know and start to look and study newtons formulas for acceleration and enertia,
      the formulas will tell the story ,about it.

      To sum it up, newton originally figured in his formulas that if something had twice the speed it would have twice the impact force,but a dutch scientist did lead ball experiments and proved him wrong,newton had to change his formulas.

      twice the speed has 4 times the impact folks ,but half the energy is required to speed up the mass as compared to impact force.

      the formulas have built in overunity,but nobody noticed , how could something so simple have been overlooked ?

      I just explained my secret,how much more simple does it get.

      • Ivan_Cev

        What is this, Faith in Free Energy?
        Show a prototype a real test, …end of the story.
        Rossi is wasting time with complex test, He just have to heat some water against a blank control device, feed both with the same input, measure both possible with the same meters, and then measure the diff in temp in the water, measure the volume of water
        calculate energy, but make a balance of energy and mass of used water.

      • Bigwilly

        Mr. Jacob,

        I don’t know what theories you are subscribing to but kinetic energy is well described by the E=mV^2. To double the speed of any given mass it will require 4 times the energy.

        I don’t ask you to take my word, or established sciences word on this subject. Do the experiment yourself and you will see.

        Otherwise please link to an experiment or demonstration where excess energy is garnered from kinetic motion of the kind E=mv^2.

        Thanks
        BW

        • jacob

          In time ,I will produce a prototype which uses this effect,not to prove to you that I am right but just for educational purposes for those who are interested in replicating an actual working device.

          The unit I will built will show it’s internal parts like rotor and turbine,self running when assembled with unlimited COP ,I will built it just for youtube.

          As for you BW ,I will just get back with some proof,that’s been around for some time.

          selfrunning waterpowered units have been around since Viktor Schauberger ,Tesla Turbine ,and some Eskeli Patents,and have gotten as much media attention as the E-cat.

  • Wolf

    The one thing I don’t understand about this “Diversion” strategy is: Why? I mean, either you want to be in the public or you don’t. If you don’t want others to copy your concept and ideas, then why communicate to the public at all and try to create diversions? Wouldn’t it be better for him to just be completely quiet until he is ready to finally release a product?

    • kwhilborn

      It is hard to say what right moves would be involved in any patent race which is clearly happening. I think his earlier demonstrations were to beat others from achieving the patents. He could reproduce the excess heat at will, but he never mentioned it was not stable at this time. He has since worked out stability and higher heats.

    • http://www.warpfusion.com Conrad

      If his work was completely secret, he would still be working in his garage instead of having investors and the likes of Siemens on his side.

      + he could be just another official suicide or car accident like most investors with serious new energy inventions competing with big oil.

      If he was totally public he would give away too much to competitors

      + he could be just another official suicide or car accident like most investors with serious new energy inventions competing with big oil.

      Got to go for the old 1/3 mad scientist, 1/3 promising technology and 1/3 make sure 93% of all your invention is on the internet and viral.

      Thus: Big oil thinks your dumb, smart inverters invest and your information is everywhere so there is no use for ‘BO’ to make you disappear.

      I think Andrea Rossi is very smart to have been getting the balance just right. Until he gets some big corps behind him he will need to keep following this formula.

      • Wolf

        Of how many people with new energy concepts do we now that were killed in “car accident”s?

        And wouldn’t it be more convenient to search for a direct contact to big companies instead of waling this strategy of “diversion”?

        By the way: We still don’t know if there really is any kind of contact between Siemens / SGS and Rossi…

        • Omega Z

          Wolf

          We can debate what Siemens silence means whether confirming or irrelevance.

          USING SGS name if NOT a fact would quickly result in Legal Action.