New Interview with Francesco Celani

The Italian web site NextMe.it has published a new interview with Francesco Celani, famous now for the LENR device which he has demonstrated at recent conferences in Texas and South Korea. The interview covers a number of interesting topics. As best as I can determine from the Google translated article, here are some of his main points.

Andrea Rossi — Celani thinks Rossi has discovered something but can’t control it.
National Instruments — Very impressed with CEO James Truchard, who was personally involved in helping Celani set up the instrumentation to measure his device.
Palladium — He thinks palladium could be used in this reaction, but prefers to use nickel which is far cheaper.
Gamma Rays — They have not been able to detect gamma rays when hydrogen has been used in the reactor — only with deuterium.
Commercialization — Celani has been funded by private entrepreneurs who prefer to remain anonymous. His projection is to be able to create heat at 100 euros per kW, and electricity at 300 euros per kW. Here’s the exact text from the Google translation on this point:

“Simply put, with 300 euros you can get 3 kW and 1 kW electric heat: this value is the average power electricity consumed in a private house in a day (ie 24kWh/giorno). Suppose instead of using it as heating, with 1000 euro investment in wires (most obviously controls / pumps), you warm all winter and not just for one year.”

If there are any Italian speakers out there I would be most grateful if you could correct any of the above, or add any more important details from the interview.

  • Ron

    What amazes me most is that none of these Italians can afford a proper translator for their work. Google translations are poor. For example, what is meant is for 300 euros you should be able to buy a unit that generates 3KW of heat continuously and perhaps 1KW of electricity (33% eff). No price was estimated for fuel. At least Mr. Rossi is understandable though far from perfect in English.

    • GreenWin

      The result of disenfranchising an entire area of science.

      • ivan_cev

        And why they have to speak english, Why you do not speak Italian, Why that sence of Implied superiority?

        • shinanju

          It’s not about “superiority” except in one narrow sense: superior number of speakers. English is the most common second language in the world. It’s the global language of trade and science. German is also a common science language, like Mandarin is for trade, but English is still incredibly popular.

          It’s not because it’s “better” than other languages — it’s got strengths (lots of loan words for shades of meaning, easy conjugation) and weaknesses (one of the hardest languages to spell properly) — but it _is_ widely used. And it’s pretty much expected, internationally, that if you have an important scientific paper, you’re going to want to publish an English version of it for one of the Western peer-reviewed journals.

  • cx

    So the third party report being presented this weekend that will have the name details etc of the party that did the tests right.

    • jfab

      Don’t expect too much from the “report”, it will be some unknown guy (or small company) without any credibility, just like that clown on october 2011 “demo”.

      • Francesco CH

        Einstein said: “there are only two thing that are infinite. One is the universe and the other is the stupidity of mankind. However, I am not sure about the universe.”

        If a person is unknown to you, it does not mean that this person is without any credibility and/or unknown to other people.

        • jfab

          Indeed, so what? If these “other people” don’t have better credibility then himself, it’s still BS.

    • Andrew Macleod

      I’m not expecting much from this comming report. I believe the 3rd party stuff is scheduled for an October release. What interests me is the performance details in the current ecat development. If there is a garentee of performance in this report it will be the first document released by Leocorp that I have seen, and if I’m not mistaken legally binding.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    September 4th, 2012 at 2:17 PM
    Dear Gianvico Pirazzini Architetto:
    I swear I am going to Zurich at my full expenses, to meet our Licensees and some public to give information. I will not get a single cent. I ignore how much costs to attend, honestly is not my business, probably there are hotel and restaurant expenses, I do not know. I told to my wife that there is people paying 300 Euro to listen to me: she said she would not listen to me even for free: “nemo propheta in patria sua est”.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Mark Saker
    September 4th, 2012 at 11:49 AM
    Dear Andrea,
    Will the conference in Zurich or the report show any pictures of the domestic or single hot cat reactor?
    Thanks
    Mark
    —–
    Andrea Rossi
    September 4th, 2012 at 2:20 PM
    Dear Mark Saker:
    Yes, I will.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Ecco Liberation
    September 4th, 2012 at 10:09 AM
    Dott. Rossi, please correct if I’m wrong. If I understand correctly there will be:
    1) Disclosure on September 8th (during the Zurich conference) of a validation by a third party entity (private company?) already performed earlier this Summer;
    2) Disclosure within Mid-October of a University validation
    3) Additional disclosure of a third party validation to be yet performed, very soon, with videos, etc.
    That would be three different independent validations. Am I correct?
    ——
    Andrea Rossi
    September 4th, 2012 at 2:23 PM
    Dear Ecco Liberation:
    1- yes
    2- this depends on the University, not on me: I cannot decide for them. While point 1 depends on me, point 2 does not.
    3- probably
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Jacob

    Actually St.Peter was leader on Cold Fusion and all other nuclear phenomena.
    St.peter predicted 2000 years ago ” The time comes when the elements decompose”.
    St.Peter was a simple fisher man.

  • clovis

    Hi, guys
    Just read through, interesting conversations,
    I will only add that it is my belief that Mr. Rossie has been in total control of his discovery and leads the field in lenr research .
    You may guess but he and his partner alone knows the seceret sauce.
    There are other processes, of obtaining this effect. it is my belief that
    A.R’s has a uniqueness, that is his own, and will protect it to his end.
    And full well knows what he’s up against, and is well capable of finishing his objective of getting his product out to the world.

    • Andrew Macleod

      I think his pass has taught him valuable lessons, and will serve him well moving forward.

  • GreenWin

    There are some well-meaning people who warn that changes of technology as radical as LENR represents is socially dangerous. While instinct suggests this is an overreaction – it is always wise to listen. Indeed, the difference between human evolution energized by combustion and the binding energy contained in the atom – is enormous. Some contend it to be a “quantum leap;” a sudden giant step that may do more harm than good.

    However, if we consider the path we have been on, controlled by the powers that steer the Earth’s direction – we stand at a precipice demanding a great leap forward. A simple overview of inequalities on Earth tells us there are billions without access to the very basics of healthful survival. Clean water, food, shelter, and hygiene to start with. Some may view the task of providing these minimal elements an impossible challenge. It is a “quantum leap” in conscious compassion. But it is not necessarily impossible in physical or technical execution.

    Introduction of global low cost energy will not happen overnight, or in a year or even a decade. It will take a full generation at least. And far from being a sudden transition from combustion to nucleonic – it need be administered slowly, and carefully so as to preserve the social and economic systems that work. The administration of such change requires the wisdom and talents of many. It is by far the greatest challenge to humankind until now.

    But we believe we have the skills and talents and compassion to build a new infrastructure, distribute access, and steward the resources of the planet. The gradual reduction in fossil exploitation alone is an enormous change for the good. Obviating over-reliance on erratic resources like wind and solar makes the technical challenges more realistic. We will no longer have to scar the landscape or litter the oceans with machines and contraptions to capture scarce energy. Energy will come from the near-invisible infinite, consuming a tiny fraction of combustion resources.

    Transition to LENR-energy requires an Olympic effort from all nations and all people. It requires the services of the international “best and brightest” to visualize social, political and technological administration of resources. Yes, it is quantum challenge – but one whose time has come, and whose rewards are uplifting of all.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

      Dear Greenwin, you seems the one to appreciate reading “The Next Convergence”, as this book talk of that kind of productivity transitions, of managing the creative-destruction, avoiding to slow the transition, but also avoiding destruction before creation…
      Inequality are well diagnosed too, as it says that in a stable society with low groth, the rich concentrate the wealths and things stays inequal. In fast growing society ther is growing inequality, but minimum income get higer, and inequality of icome is not a question of family wealth but of how connected are those people to the growin economy… rural or urban, lucky or loser…

      the role of the government is not to keep the old economy, but to manage it’s burial (not easy), protecting the people, not the old jobs.

      LENR will be terrible for old jobs, but fantastic for new jobs, and also for new comfort, new leisure, new sharing… like have been the industrial growth in the 60s (at least in, europe when we converge to highest economy level of US) or later (see japan, Korea… China in process… same as US/Korea/Japan in 15-20 years)…

      It would also ask courage from todays generation to invest in LENR, losing our jobs, and finding new ones, instead of trying to save the jobs of yesterday. Much courage also to accept that we have to work less, because we have nothing more to consume, at least not enough more compared to the huge productivity gain. (don’t laugh, for German, US, Japanese, Korean, it is a hard to learn vacation).

      by the way, read also “the third industrial revolution” someone advise me about it… (not yet read).

      • Andrew Macleod

        Fortunately I don’t think we will see such a sweeping change as some of us hope/fear for. Sadly most of our sweeping technologicial changes we have had in the past were catalized by war. WWI advanced the areoplane and internal combustion engine, then again in WWII with jet power, rockets and atomic bombs. The cold war advanced computers and guidence systems along with GPS devices, Internet(arpnet), ect ect. Today’s technologies are borne from the blood of our fathers and enemys. If a sweeping change is to come we have more to fear than the economics of introducing this wonderful new power source.

        • GreenWin

          Andrew, you may not recognize the battle going on at this very moment – albeit on another plane. The “infowars” for the hearts and minds of humans is well underway. Had the rebels not succeeded as far as they have – it is highly unlikely we would see LENR grown as it has.

          The computers and gadgets of infowars fortunately do not hold a candle to the forces that have unveiled cold fusion. The catalyst in the vessel of an LENR reactor is changing far more than the table of elements.

          • Karl

            The fruits of WW1, WW2, Cold War etc. is obvious for us today. It is certainly an interesting way to look at the current and perhaps coming “infowar” that it in the end will result in virtually unlimited energy solutions to be used freely by masses.

          • Andrew Macleod

            I would love to see a World not using fossil fuels. I just don’t want to see another world war. I wonder what kind of reaction the general public will have(especially in north America) when they find out they have been duped by their own elected officials. I’m not one for controversys but I honestly believe that the government in power in 89 told the university’s doing the testing to have negitive results with promise for more funding. Hence the wake for cold fusion before the test results were in.

            • atanguy

              No Andrew, they didn’t need to: The self-interest of the ‘hot fusion’ oligarchy was enough.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

          this is not the view of that article:
          http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/01/does-war-bring-prosperity-or-is-it.html
          “One line summary: War does not lead to prosperity and only marginally to new tech– a debunking—the tech advances gained by war can be obtained in peace by careful incubating of tech seeds and the adroit management and exploitation of those tech seeds that do sprout–yet usually the opposite policies, ruinous in economic effect, are the default setting of many powerful bureaucractic forces.
          War during Maslow Window is a particular disaster.”

          • Andrew Macleod

            I agree with the assessment. However without war no great leaps and bounds are made. What ends up happening is new tech is slowly filtered to the public with minor improvements made. I’m sure you have noticed this with many things , tvs, cars, cellphones, computers ect ect. It keeps people consuming. As with WWI at the start we had monoplanes that used wires to bend the wings to turn, 3 years later 10 monoplanes could compete with 1 Fokker dr1. Very fast advancement and implementation.

            • GreenWin

              Andrew, this may sound outlandish, but consider too there may be people with advanced technology willing to trade it – for power, hegemony, control of entire species.

          • Omega Z

            Alain

            War & preparation for the next war is an economic & technology driver. Not so much for the U.S.. Our technology has reached a point where the economic drive is now minimal. 1 aircraft can do what use to require several hundred & 1000′s of bombs & do it with a near 100% success rate.

            Without past wars, our technology would have lagged by decades or centuries. War gives urgency to technical advances. Without these advances, we probably wouldn’t have the knowledge for LENR.

            That Said- An Economic driver doesn’t have to be of a Militaristic Origin. Especially in today’s World.

            A Space exploration project would accomplish the same thing. Economic & Technological drive. Capable of generating $7 worth of jobs for every $1 spent.

            Nations could take pride in their Space prowess & accomplishments instead of Military prowess. Working together instead of against each other. Without having to Kill 1 another.

            • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

              I have no personnale opinion to oppose, yet nextbigfuture article seems documented.

              I agree that crazy projects like Apollo space race, or alike might have the same effect.

              however now I think that simply the catch-up of underdevelopper countries as explaine in “the next convergence” might be the best project.
              This catch-up is not only about transmitting our occidental know-how to emergin countries, bit it can be the occasion to allow new solutions…
              see how the mobile infrastructure develope in emerging countries, compared to countries having huge incumbent copper network… In Indonesia I was using 3G (not so expensive for Indonesian of middle-class), while in France I cannot afford it for my computer…

              in Africa for example I expect LENR to be used much more frequently, and the grid to be abandoned and not built.
              Once they catch-up they will quickly develop new application matching their different history, application that will later be adopted in old developed countries….

      • GreenWin

        Alain, thank you for your thoughtful comments. I value the ideas proposed in this forum.

    • atanguy

      GrenWin, I think that the main change coming from LENR is that energy will be distributed differently: Instead to be monopolized by a few individuals and companies, each of us will have access to the energy he/she needs. This will have the biggest impact on the society and relationship between humans.

    • Tony76

      “it need be administered slowly, and carefully so as to preserve the social and economic systems that work.”

      High density populations (cities) have proven to be and currently are evolutionary anomalies. Past civilizations featuring dense mega populations have crashed, as ours is doing right now. “Social and economic systems” are attempts at control of the pathology caused by dense herding. To preempt comments about Luddites and anti-progress : living in a rural/small town does not mean either of these things. With modern technology of information, energy and health, human-scale societies can live well naturally without bureaucrats and overlords.

      If people who choose to leave the herd (cities) and can produce locally their own factories, food, water and shelter .., if the need for policing and bureaucrats drops to quasi zero (as they do in reality) … what “administration, social and economic systems that work.” will be needed? Why must this change occur slowly?

      • GreenWin

        Tony76 – thank you for your thoughtful questions! It is by this very process of dialog that success will arise IMO. My understanding of your cautionary notes are that the mega-lopolis indulges itself not unlike a glutton – finally crashing from indulgence and lack of mobility and expansion.

        I do not propose to preserve the exploitative centralized controls of the mega-lopolis – I agree these are not social structures working to benefit human endeavor. The very nature of low cost, highly accessible energy suggests distributed energy – the antithesis of centralized service and control.

        Indeed the expansion of small communities, self-supporting, reliant, and serene – need no overseeing social structure. Economies as in a mutually agreed upon barter system (e.g. currency globally recognized) is a vital component of independence. Without such, we return to fiefdoms and nation states with sovereign geographic boundaries.

        Urban density arises I believe, from human herding instinct and the thought that jobs (survival opportunity) proliferate in cities. I see LENR as freeing individuals from the tether of the grid, and urban constraint. A global system of barter seems reasonable if not essential. However, the role of the governor is reduced as their protection and mothering is no longer a component of independent life. Hopefully this sounds vaguely like the thoughts of the American Founders, circa 1776.

  • http://lenr-coldfusion.com JC

    OT: An inventor named Dale Basgall of Hawaii has been working on a design of a Universal LENR Reactor, and would like comments as to whether his design seems likely to work.

    http://lenr-coldfusion.com/2012/09/04/universal-lenr-reactor-base-plate-fuel-chambers/

  • Robyn

    Any love lost between Celani and Rossi (and there seems to be little) is no problem for me.

    Celani has performed an invaluable service to the world by demonstrating his LENR device, and publishing their findings.

    Rossi is taking a different direction. Fair enough.

    The world doesn’t even know it’s waiting.

    • GreenWin

      Robyn, there is no love “lost” on this team.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    September 4th, 2012 at 9:27 AM
    Dear Brian:
    Yes, we will have another third party validation very soon of which a video will be produced and diffused.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Pachu

      If its like the one posted in Australian e-cat site, keep it please, doesnt help a bit.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        It might be an idea to see what is actually to be presented before making pointless negative noises.

  • georgehants

    Discover Magazine
    You Are the Future of Skepticism
    He spoke at TAM 2012 about these tools, and what each of us can do to make the world a more reality-based place.
    He makes a lot of excellent points; in fact, I find really nothing there to disagree with. We do waste a lot of effort and time online – in many cases trying to score cheap points when there are far more effective things we could be doing. And there are tools that can help make that happen – Tim talks about quite a few in his TAM talk. I use Web of Trust myself, and I’ve been meaning to look more into rbutr. You should take a look yourself.
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/09/04/you-are-the-future-of-skepticism/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BadAstronomyBlog+%28Bad+Astronomy%29

    • GreenWin

      Interesting article. I wonder why Phil has yet to write about LENR.

    • Don Witcher

      How does anyone know what reality is until what seems to be unreal has been properly tried and explored. All of the past advancements of mankind have seemed unreal when they were first proposed.

      • georgehants

        Don, what good sense and simple logic you speak, now we have to figure out why most of the educated experts in main-line science, the journals, government, media, etc. etc. choose to deny your common sense and take a completely irrational path of following destructive Dogma.
        Answer that question and we can move the World.

        • Don Witcher

          Its a natural inborn attribute and necessary for survival. Skepticism has a proper place in demanding that we test and explore before we accept too fast. The problem is to know how much is enough and to prevent the misuse of skepticism once we do know and want to move on into a better world. It’s the in between stage that’s hard. For LENR I think the in between stage is now behind us. Time to move on.

          • georgehants

            Don, agreed the right level of scepticism that you point out is easily solved by following Evidence and fair theory or even on occasion trusting instinct.
            Any scepticism that tries to go against fair unbiased Evidence or research must be irrational and removed from all so called professional occupations.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      I’m having problems with streamed video, so I only got the first minute. But if the writer of the intro article thinks its good, that’s really all I need to know. “antivaxxers”. Gotta love all those little putdown labels! Does he not know that the ‘thimerasol’ in most vaccines is 50% w/v mercury? Does he think heavy metals are good for his brain? Pi11ock.

  • georgehants

    Max S, you said
    “will discuss again after the 10th, I am sure. Till then I promise to shut up.”
    Max there is nothing to discuss if Rossi is genuine the World gains, if Rossi is not genuine then he has been given the chance by rational sceptics to show his Evidence.
    Irrational pre-judging sceptics can never be right.
    Anybody who abuses and deny’s before giving every chance to any scientist is in error from which there is no recovery.
    If Rossi is not genuine you and your ilk are wrong, the rational sceptic will give the same fair chance to the next scientist who claims an effect.

    • Max S

      this is really my last comment here to the satisfation of my dear friends who requested I should leave. This forum has developed to a Rossi propaganda department with active censorship. Sad, because this leads to asymmetric information gathering.
      Irrational is to base all conclusions on “Rossi said” and comments to leave, or shut up, or anything alike. Who are the people who think they can patronise like that ?
      I follow LENR since 10 years. I am convinced LENR is real. “if Rossi is genuine the World gains” I agree. But so far he has not delivered anything credible. Do you guys really think the magic curtain will fall on the 10th and Rossi will save the world ? We shall see.

      • georgehants

        Max S, your reply has almost no connection to the reality of my reply that you are answering.
        As you appear unable to discuss the points made, probably best you rest until the Evidence is clear.

      • captain

        >Max S on September 4, 2012 at 2:34 pm

        this is really my last comment here…<

        AMEN

      • Adam Lepczak

        There are billions of other web sites on the Internet…
        Pick and choose one.

  • georgehants

    From Cold Fusion Now.
    President Obama and Cold Fusion LENR” Is an October Surprise Immanent, Eminent, and Imminent? Part 2
    September 4, 2012 / Gregory Goble
    http://coldfusionnow.org/president-obama-and-cold-fusion-lenr-is-an-october-surprise-immanent-eminent-and-imminent-part-2/

  • georgehants
    • Francesco CH

      …And he confirms that the reactions produced inside the E-Cat are stable and controllable.

  • georgehants

    Scientists unlock the mechanism behind improved water-splitting catalysts September 4, 2012 by Kimm Fesenmaier
    —Scientists and engineers around the world are working to find a way to power the planet using solar-powered fuel cells. Such green systems would split water during daylight hours, generating hydrogen (H2) that could then be stored and used later to produce water and electricity. But robust catalysts are needed to drive the water-splitting reaction. Platinum catalysts are quite good at this, but platinum is too rare and expensive to scale up for use worldwide. Several cobalt and nickel catalysts have been suggested as cheaper alternatives, but there is still plenty of room for improvement. And no one has been able to determine definitively the mechanism by which the cobalt catalysts work, making it difficult to methodically design and construct improved catalysts.
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-09-scientists-mechanism-water-splitting-catalysts.html#jCp

  • alexvs

    An excellent interview. Dr. Celani responds as a true scientific should do. Honest, humble and open minded. Dr. Arata has done very important research too totally consistent with Dr. Celani in the common research area.

  • georgehants

    Lars Lindberg
    September 3rd, 2012 at 3:14 PM
    Dear Mr Rossi,
    so is the barell honey-comb type mainly designed for the future convert to electricity?
    —-
    Andrea Rossi
    September 3rd, 2012 at 3:56 PM
    Dear Lars Lindberg:
    Yes, absolutely with priority.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    September 3rd, 2012 at 3:13 PM
    Dear Alessandro Stupa:
    Yes, I agree. About the safety of our plants: we are perfectly aware of our safety issues and our industrial plants have been safety- certified by specialists. Obviously our competitors, after trying to say that our reactors do not work, now that they cannot say this anymore are trying to stop us saying we are not safe: this is why we are certifying everything we make. I personally am working with my reactors since years, helped in all the safety issues by Prof. Sergio Focardi ( to make a Focardi you need 200 or more guys of the value of the one you talked about), and all our experiments are strictly controlled by specialists in safety. Nothing, in thousands of tests, has raised any worry regarding the safety issues.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Andrew Macleod

      This is a very nice comment about Foccardi! Basically stating he is worth 200 regular scientists.

  • Renzo

    One of the german licensee is preparing a live streaming of the Zurich conference:
    http://www.ecat-deutschland.org/index.php/live-stream

    • Filip47

      A few days ago Defkalion admitted Rossi has ‘IT’ and now Celani does.
      Brian Josephson gave us a hint(‘the market will decide’)
      A few days guys, a few days.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

        what celani guess isn tah Rossi have something, but uncontrolled.
        He seems not to trsut Rossi for nice industrialization.
        My only reason to be more optimistic about rossi is that he seems under control of a consortium, but is is a Rossy-says to…

        the Celani hypothesis that Rossi is gaining time with an unstable promising reactor (note that Defkalion said that pure thermal reactor is a dead-end because hard to control), is clearly compabibel with his strange behavior in the old demo, whith is strange communication, and with the “shark effect” having people like Defkalion or national instruments feeling the small of a revolution (even if the chicken is not yet cooked).
        It is less compatible with the behavior of licensee like Aldo Proia (who invest his credibility in e-cat, and investors cash)…

        facts are more compatible with Rossi gaining time, until this winter when he get under the control of serious guys who helps him to solve his problems, and since it evolve quickly…

        what is nearly impossible, as celani assume, is tha Rossi is a pure scammer… at worst he is just gaining time with an unstable product, as usual with his terrible “credit record”.

        Knowing the anomosity between the two guys, you can also assume that Celani is a bit negative about Rossi, and take the lowest hypothesis first.

        we will seen.

        what is proved is that LENr works,
        that NiH LENR is powerful (Celani, Pianteli, Focardi, Takahashi)

        what we have to check, but can is
        that Rossi have something promising
        that plasma NiH LENR is nearly industrial
        that LENR have the attention of many headquarter, at least of many top experts

        what we can fear is
        that Rossi cannot control the reaction for long and lies much, and will make investor furious
        that DGT hide some technical problems

        • Filip47

          Let’s asume that Celani is not sticking out his neck for Rossi.

        • MJS

          Yup, that was my feeling that Rossi needed more time but that may not be the case now and Celani is probably a bit jealous.

          Celani’s backers are also getting nervous given what information is coming out about Hot-Cat.

        • Omega Z

          Alain & others

          Celani is looking for funding. Investors look for a return. This means a product to market.

          So this means Celani is a competitor. Competitors take cheap shots at each other. This is normal.

          What it means for us is that someone will bring a product to market sooner or later. It’s all good.

    • Martin

      ecat-deutschland.org

      This website looks pretty poor. All money gone into the license?

      • Hampus

        It’s just a beta version.

      • Adam Lepczak

        the website sucks big time; as a matter of fact it is quite embarrassing to put something like that “live”…

        • georgehants

          If you where seriously ill and a doctor came but he was badly dressed would you turn him away.

          • Protz

            I woudl ask myself a question: ‘is it a real doctor’?

            • georgehants

              Protz, would you let him treat you or say you are badly dressed I will just die.
              Not to have treatment is irrational.
              To complain about his dress after you are dead is rational.

            • GreenWin

              George, some judge a book by its cover. Others choose to read the book before casting aspersions. The well read tend to live longer :)

              • georgehants

                GreenWin, are we achieving anything, sometimes I feel everything is to far gone, then I watch some of the paralympics and gain some strength?

      • Max S

        they established a facebook group also
        http://www.facebook.com/ECatDeutschland

        • barty

          And much typing errors…the whole e-cat deutschland “project” looks very unprofessional…

          In the Description:
          Alles junges aufstebendes Unternehmen für effiziente und 100% umweltschonende Energiegewinnung stehen wir für eine einmaligiges Produkt ein.”

          So much typing errors in just ONE sentence from a native german businessman??

          • Max S

            don´t know if he is native German, though. But agree, it is very unprofessional. Perhaps they took it from an English or Chinese e-cat site, ran over it google translate and copied the output. Neuman said in his newsletter a friend had prepared the site.
            The guy calls himself “Generalvertriebslizenzbeteiligter” – means participant of a general distribution licencee. Nice title, isn´t it. LOL.
            Interesting is the statement “Es ist weder eine Kernschmelze noch eine Kernspaltung – Es ist eine Umwandlung” which is a clear contradiction to Rossi´s patent which claims fusion and fission processes.

            • trans-later

              Gerd and Neumann. More native german names are hardly to find.
              Here is a picture: http://www.xing.com/profile/Gerd_Neumann28

              Mistakes like “Technololgie” instead of “Technologie” or “Massachusetts Institute for” and not “Institute of” were handmade and not google-translated.

              But the absolute highlight was his title
              “Generalvertriebslizenzbeteiligter”.

              Google hits: ONE (at his page)

          • GreenWin

            “Oh, look! Shiny!!”

      • JamesA

        The Skeptics will find anything to cry about – the website looks Great ! and the product will be World Changing – just DAYS AWAY NOW!

    • sebastian

      I find it a little bit alarming that they put the video of the NASA guy on their front page, with the caption “NASA says cold fusion is real”.
      Well – that might be right, but this still doesn’t make the Rossi device real. This video in this context is definitely misleading.
      Maybe the operators of this site don’t know better (which should be even more alarming and be a bad sign for the upcoming “conference”).

      • georgehants

        Fair point sebastian, just shows how one must be careful of opinion from any side pro or con.
        Only Evidence counts and one cannot extrapolate from this possible bad connection between NASA and Rossi that future Evidence will not be convincing.
        Each piece of Evidence must be viewed independently without distorting one piece by association with another.
        That is main-line sciences way, preach the Evidence in favour of denial and hide and debunk the Evidence for Truth.
        The history of Cold Fusion shows clearly, do not listen to experts or opinion just find and uncover the True Evidence and do the research.

      • Max S

        correct. Deliberate misinformation or lack of knowledge ?
        We learned often enough deliberate misinformation is generously accepted by the true believers.
        Many people don´t differentiate between LENR as an area of research and the specific e-cat development. Often it is lack of understanding. It is a very dangerous development for the serious LENR science.

        • georgehants

          Max S, agreed, you mean true believers in global warming, true believers that UFO’s don’t exist, true believers that main-line science knows what it is doing, true believers in pre-judgment, true believers that their is no creator, etc. etc.
          Yes they are all fool’s, only the person who follows the unadulterated True Evidence and says do the bloody research is in any way a scientist.

          • Robyn

            Respectfully, I am a true believer in Global Warming (or more properly, Global Climate Change).

            I have a good friend who is one of the top cloud researchers at NASA. He does hands-on research into the condition of light penetration, and other things related to climate. He is absolutely certain in the validity of the evidence on GCC.

            And just to add my $0.02, I don’t find UFO evidence very compelling, but I’d love to. (I’m a Science Fiction author).

            And I don’t find much compelling evidence for a creator.

            But I am with you and Max that we need to differentiate between verified proofs of LENR generally, and Rossi’s E-Cat in specific. (Though, I also tend to think Rossi’s probably genuine.)

            Cheers.

        • Renzo

          I don’t think it was deliberately misleading, reading his posts on a group I have the impression that the guy is enthusiastically genuine but a lot naive as well

      • Renzo

        I agree, on the facebook ecat group someone has pointed this, making this video an ecat endorsing is giving fodder to skeptics.
        Gerd Neumann has answered that he will probably remove it. The website is still under construction and is clearly a good amateur effort.

        Gerd has made some post on the group above, in german because his english is not so good, the following is an english summary courtesy of Hans-Henning Raven:
        “He hasn’t seen the 1MW E-Cat yet, but he trusts his expert engineers, who have seen it working in test operation. Also he trusts people like Aldo Proia and Roger Green, who invested a lot to become licencees for several countries and regions in the world. Gerd also said that there are still problems with the 10kW home unit. These devices are technically not ready yet to get delivered to customers. The Zurich congress will be also there for discussing these problems and finding a solution together.”

        http://www.facebook.com/groups/ECat.LENR/

        • barty

          Yes, it was me (Mark Us). Gerd Neumann looks unprofessional and only focused on earning money.
          He doesn’t give me the impression that he is knowing much about LENR and the e-cat technical details.

          Also his “E-cat Deutschland” Homepage is very unprofessional, and seems to be set up very quickly with lots of false information (for e.g. the NASA video).

          • Renzo

            I still believe Rossi is the real McCoy but it seems many of these licensee will owe their fortune more to sheer luck rather than professionalism :D

            • georgehants

              It is luck to choose a direction in life is it.
              yes maybe, but is that any excuse to condemn, you could have become a licensee if you had chosen, you presumably chose not to, so who’s fault is that.

              • Renzo

                Personally I would have been very happy to become a lincesee. But I don’t have 200.000+ euros to spare, I don’t work in the energy sector and I’m not an engineer. I know I don’t have the knowledge and experience to make a serious business as I would like to do. I wish good luck to Gerd and the other lincesee but I can’t help but notice that their behavior is quite amateurish.

                By the way this is also part of the great fun and irony of this story. The fact that in a age of scientific hubrys and bilion dollar projects, one of the most important technological and scientific revolution in human history has been created and put on the market by an eccentric inventor and amateur licensee.

                History has a great sense of humour, isn’t it?

                • georgehants

                  Then do not be bitter with those people who are in a position to trust there own judgment and take the plunge.
                  Irony perhaps but still (if Genuine) a brilliant man that we should not be jealous of but rejoice in his success.
                  Main-line science had the chance 23 years ago, to be where Rossi (possibly)is and choose to deny and debunk the Evidence.
                  Are you still debunking UFO’s like most of the scientific “opinion experts”.
                  Then you are making the same mistake again.
                  Only Evidence counts and closed-minded denial is irrational.

                • GreenWin

                  george, one lesson we have been taught from all this — non-conformist inventors draw the ire of mainstream. They refuse to celebrate anyone’s success but their own.

                  For an intellectual elite – they are a sorry lot.

          • Max S

            “Gerd Neumann looks unprofessional and only focused on earning money”
            unfortunately the other licencees (Schneider, Green…) are not much better. We shall see.

            • georgehants

              Max S, by your post’s you seem to have a very negative pre-judgment of people, could you explain why please.

              • Max S

                not prejudgment, these people have a history.
                Schneider – his partners convicted for fraud (see
                http://psiram.com/ge/index.php/TransAltec_AG)
                Roger Green – see Gary Wright website
                You need more information ?

                • georgehants

                  Max S, I am talking about all your post’s.
                  If he was convicted of fraud in one case why would that possibly mean that he is a fraud in this case, Prejudgment is always in error.
                  It just means as always that like with MIT be careful, as they have a record or fraud and deceit.
                  Does that mean you will never look at a scientific report from MIT again.

              • Max S

                promoting interesting stuff like perpetuum mobiles
                read this
                http://psiram.com/ge/index.php/TransAltec_AG)

            • paul z

              Max S, go away and come back in a few days – the eCat will be a household name soon, we could care less what your thoughts are as a skeptic – at this point )

              • Max S

                thank you. Will follow your advice. Wish you have fun with your ongoing asymmetric information gathering.

                • georgehants

                  Max S, thank you, you have served again to show the kind of pointless negative opinion that “opinion experts” are full of.
                  Hopefully scientists are beginning to realise the totally non-scientific content of such ramblings.

                • Max S

                  will discuss again after the 10th, I am sure. Till then I promise to shut up.

                • Robyn

                  Please don’t take Paul Z’s suggestion.

                  Your comments are obviously serious and valuable.

                  We have enough space for people here. Heck, it’s the internet.

            • barty

              Maybe the others aren’t more professional too, but on the e-cat Australia Website are no contradictory statements like on e-cat Deutschland.

              But i’ll wait until next monday, where the scientific magazine (let us hope it’s not an esoteric magazine) prints the messurement data and so on.

              If I had the choise to buy my e-cat at e-cat australia or e-cat germany (where I’am living), I would choose australia and rather pay more shipping costs.

              • georgehants

                barty, this is an esoteric website so why are you against them.
                Would you not do better to say you hope it is a Truthful website giving unbiased, honest information based on Evidence.

  • evleer

    Rossi can’t control it?

    Sure, he may be right that Rossi isn’t able to jump start and fine tune the LENR process like you would throttle the engine in your car.

    But neither is Celani or anyone else at this point in time.

    This doesn’t mean that the Ecat in its current state isn’t ready for market. In the industrial plant applications that Rossi is targeting, a coarse control may be perfectly acceptable, as long as cost effectiveness and safety issues are met.

    • Garry

      Agreed– who ever said a nuclear furnace at a power plant is “controlled”? Ask the Japanese. Who ever said even a gas powered powerplant is really controlled?

      All that really matters is that it is not capable of critical overload and that it doesn’t just “go out”. As long as time averaged energy output does not vary beyond certain criteria, it’s heat energy that can be put to work.

    • Charles

      When previously asked what I wanted to see in the E-Cat I said:
      An ON-OFF VOLUME switch. Let me refine that: ON-OFF-WATTAGE switch (with Wattage infinitely variable as in a radio volume control. Actually I would settle for step variable.)

      Celani seems to imply that Rossi, at this point, is unable to supply the ON-OFF WATTAGE switch, but apparently, otherwise, has “discovered something”. Andrea Rossi — Celani thinks Rossi has discovered something but can’t control it.”

      Again, Rossi, Pons and Fleischmann should receive the Nobel Prizes for Peace, Economics, Physics and Chemistry, as soon as a proven E-Cat hits the market. (Assuming it is the leading whizmo-gismo.)

      • Omega Z

        Charles

        Rossi has said they will be controllable. At least the High temp cats. But I don’t think it’s instant. You adjust it up or down & takes about 15 minutes for the temp to adjust. Which would be logical.

  • Mattias

    Rossi can’t control it?! :( I doubt that’s true!

    • dsm

      Probably the truest statement anyone ‘in the know’ has ever made about Rossi’s work.

      Sadly, the issue of scalability seems to be the road bump all these developers are hitting.

      We can only hope Celani or Brillouin or someone else does learn to control it.

      DSM

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        If rossi is alone, when he was alos, this seems reasonable…
        today the question is wheter rossi is still alone and lying, or more under control… Celani and Rossi are not appreciating each other, and we can see why…

  • Morgan

    seriously 300 euros per kW? 1,000 kW costs less than $100 from oil….

    • admin

      This is the Google translated quote:

      “Simply put, with 300 euros you can get 3 kW and 1 kW electric heat: this value is the average power electricity consumed in a private house in a day (ie 24kWh/giorno). Suppose instead of using it as heating, with 1000 euro investment in wires (most obviously controls / pumps), you warm all winter and not just for one year.”

      Maybe I am misunderstanding something here.

    • Tom Andersen

      He means 300 Euro for a kW NOT a kWh. That means 1KW for a year (say) for 300 Euro, so that’s 1*24*365*.2 = 1750 Euro worth of electricity in the first year, plus 3 times that in heat, then refuel for $50 and run another year again… Assuming electricity is worth 0.20 per kWh, and heat is worth about 1/3 of that with nat gas, you get heat and hydro for 1/10 the current cost.

      • Ged

        That’s an awesome analysis, thank you. I see why he’s got private backing.

    • Omega Z

      Morgan

      You misread

      300 Euro gets you 3Kwh heat / 1Kwe Electric “Generating Capacity per hour”.

    • http://sitonmyfacebook Charles Ponzi

      I read this wrong at first as well. He means 300 euros for the equipment which will generate 1KW of electricity for a long time. 1 KW of electricity from solar panels costs about $1100. So the device he promises will be roughly 1/3 the price of solar panels.

      Of course solar panels you can buy now, LENR is just a promise. Not one single device has ever been released to anybody.

      • Luke Macmichael

        I hate to break it to you Charles, but solar panels are still quie a bit more expensive than that. It cost me $40,000 US for 8kw of solar panals fully installed on my house. Plus solar only generates power for an average of 4-6 hours per day.

        I’ve always been a big supporter of solar and wind myself, but if this is true it’s less than 1/10th the cost of solar electricity when you factor everything into the picture.

        • http://sitonmyfacebook Charles Ponzi

          They say you can count on 6 hours per day. On my ranch you can expect 300 days per year of sunshine. Regarding the price. Cheap Chinese solar panels cost about $1.10 USD/watt. Same factory in China makes panels which are sold by different retailers for different prices. People buy them on loan and pay even more for interest and what not. People pay big money to install them and pay even more. Sky’s the limit for how much you can pay for cheap Chinese solar panels. That doesn’t change the fact that you can get them for $1.10/watt. That said anybody who has seriously looked at solar realizes quickly it’s not about the panels. It’s about the batteries, aka energy storage.

          Meanwhile back at the ranch the UFO’s are invading. When I stopped to buy fruit from the local orchard I asked what that radar dish was on the horizon. It’s some new wind generator they’re testing out. Tejon wants to install 6000-7000 in a third world country called Kern County next door. Thousands of these alien contraptions are about to destroy my gorgeous mountain views.

          • GreenWin

            Charles, there is ironic turbulence here. The stalwart climate mongers would far rather construct 7,000 giant egg beaters across a landscape, than embrace cold fusion. We must ask, why? Why such solipsistic behavior from the “greens?” Why do the self-appointed stewards of the land not preserve and protect our oceans and hills and valleys??

            Could it be rage at being shown the better way? Jealous verve at a truly “green” solution?? Or is it self-serving anger that billions in carbon tax revenue will not be flowing into their private coffers???

            The climate agenda, recipient of billions in PR, programming, lobbying, corruption – will have no home when LENR ends fossil fuel use. And this is alienating to some.

            • tappanjack

              +1

            • Ol’ Bab

              Good grief GW, 99.9% of Greens have no idea whatever of the LENR thing coming at them.

              Yes, they will (many) behave as you describe. Later.

              Ol’ Bab

            • mcloki

              Maybe they are building the “egg beater” because they can buy the se “egg beaters”. When a LENR device is marketable they will do the quick cost analysis and pick the appropriate tech.

        • Martin

          I’m still very interested in solar power, the suns ability to heat is obvious but mostly ignored. Domestic systems usually cost too much to add, but this guys seem to have it pretty well sorted solarfriend.co.uk. If my home had a DHW storage tank I’d install his system

  • daniel maris

    300 Euros per Kw is not very cheap is it?

    You could probably get 3000 hours of Kw power currently – say 9 hours a day for a whole year.

    Celani’s Device would probably have to operate for several years before it paid back.

    Interesting he doesn’t think Rossi is a scam.

    • zvibenyosef

      That is an interesting observation. Professor Celani is in a unique position to judge the feasability of a device such as an ecat. Celani has taken a different approach to Rossi. He has published his results and encouraged third party verification, by NI and others. He recently displayed his apparatus for all to see at the NI convention. It is true his results are nowhere near as impressive as those reported by Rossi. Yet Celani having built a Pons Flieschmann effect machine, realizes the potential of this technology, and recognizes that the difference in output, between his machine and Rossis is just one of degree. He has the proof of concept, irrefutably confirmed by third party observation, and a working model. Celani is a true scientist working only for the good of mankind, and Rossi is working toward a commercial application. These men as well as all the pioneers Pons and Fleischmann and the other brave scientists who have labored long and hard like Prefessor Focardi, and Mike McKubre and all the others deserve should go down in history as the men who changed the world

      • GreenWin

        Well said. +1

      • daniel maris

        Absolutely – I hope it all comes good. But Celani’s promise doesn’t match the hope of “free energy” which people get carried away with. I have always thought that 2 cents per KwH is more likely to be the sort of cost we are talking about.