Andrea Rossi has just announced what would seem to be an important breakthrough in the development of the E-Cat. In a comment on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today, Rossi said:
We are very close to a 1 MW plant with high temperature steam and electric power generation. Another important achievement , we got today: we are able, now, to make the drive with gas instead of electric power. This is extremely important, because now we are able to make thermal energy with thermal energy, and with the thermal energy produced we can make electric power. All this with 1 MW plants.
This would be an important breakthrough for a couple of reasons, in my estimation. First, heat from natural gas is going to be a lot more economical than heat from electricity in many parts of the world — and especially in places where reliable sources of electricity are not available. One could imagine in some parts of the world a tank of natural gas, or propane could be installed close to an E-Cat plant to provide the heat drive necessary to control the reaction.
The second reason, it seems to me, is that if the E-Cat itself is producing so much thermal energy, it may be possible to find ways to reuse some of the thermal output to provide the heat necessary for the drive. Now the E-cat may not work that way, so that’s just a guess on my part. Or it could be that you might be able to have a small separate E-Cat supplying the thermal power for a larger one.
Rossi also mentions here that they are ‘very close’ to high temperature steam production. An E-Cat producing electricity is going to be much more versatile than one producing heat only. Of course the usual ‘Rossi says’ caveats apply here — that should go without saying.
It’s certainly been an eventful week so far on the LENR front!
And by the way, what is this?
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To all
Daniele Passerini on his blog (22 passi) has CONFIRMED the Cures leaks and photos! Here’s his original post, in italian:
Daniele Passerini (22passi) ha detto…
)
@tutti
Ok, grazie a Cures ora avete visto anche voi l’E-Cat a secco. Carino eh!
E io passerò alla storia come il blogger più bravo a non fare gli scoop visto che ho il vizio di rispettare le richieste di non diffusione. Evidentemente Cures ha avuto via libera. Evidentemente Rossi sta davvero per svelare le sue carte… il titolo del mio post è stato azzeccato!!!
10 agosto 2012 20:26
PS In the next weeks I’ll try to ask Cures something else…
Google:
Daniele Passerini (22passi) said …
)
@ all
Ok, thank you too Cures now you have seen the E-Cat dry. Cute huh!
And I will go down in history as the bloggers do not do good at the scoop since I have the habit of respecting requests for nondisclosure. Apparently Cures has been greenlit. Apparently Rossi is really to reveal his cards … the title of my post has been guessed!
10 August 2012 20:26
I suspect that this is a test of a new core material. I see no need for a large quantity of nickel powder to be used. It would be sufficient to use a ceramic that provides the same or similar micro structure as the nickel once did to provide the nest for the reaction. The ceramic need only contain enough nickel as there is hydrogen available for the reaction. That way you can push the temperatures up to greater temperatures provided the nickel does not evaporate. Notice in the photo on the extreme left side, there is a very small area where the clay like material is not covering the reactor and you can see it glowing red.
That looks like the red hot surface of the exterior of the outer pipe.
Rossi should be able to improve his E-Cat much more. Presently the coupling efficiency at the system level of input energy to output energy is appalling. What does this mean? The specific heat energy in 1.5 grams of catalyst he says he is using in the high temp E-Cat is less than 800 joules at 1000 degree C. Now keep in mind that power in watts is joules per second. When Rossi says, just for example, that he needs to input 3000 watts of power (electrical or thermal, same thing) every 30 minutes to keep the E-Cat running, he is saying that it needs (3000 joules/second)*(60 seconds/minute)*(30 minute),that is equal to 5,400,000 joules. Note the energy ratio here, 6750 to 1! Obviously Rossi is using thermal input energy to do much more than maintain, or vary, the catalyst internal heat energy. Celani has shown that internal heat energy of his hydrogen loaded wires is sufficient to cause LENR, and thermal power generation, for many hours. Rossi most likely can improve his E-Cat again by using more of the LENR generated heat for internal system functions, and reduce the external sources of heat energy. Even using gas, if the E-Cat does not need as much, that would be a significant improvement. Or in other words, replacing external electric input with external gas input is good, but needing less external input altogether is better.
The concept of “coupling efficiency” may be confused with system COP. Not the same. Coupling efficiency has to do with how much energy needs to be input into just the catalyst to keep it working. When we already know that LENR catalysts can self sustain (function without external energy into them), to have a 6750 to 1 energy ratio at the “system level” in the E-Cat is ludicrous. Rossi undoubtedly knows this, but may be stuck with embedded engineering constraints. He may need to do some more design work on the E-Cat for his next big improvement.
Updated Zurich meeting program. Find out the differences:
http://www.borderlands.de/Links/Kongress080912M-e.pdf
New E-cat licensee for Germany unveiled:
Big News Here .. the Germans will ramp the E-CAT up very quickly !!
Hello Everyone,
The new “hot cat” is a major breakthrough. None of Rossi’s competitors have anything close. While they are messing around with reactors producing tens of watts, Rossi is producing kilowatts of excess power at 1,000C and beyond. They will still be comparing theories at conferences when Rossi launches his first one megawatt high temperature plant. While they are trying to come up with a way to produce an actual industrial unit capable of producing a practical amount of output, he will be making actual sales. By the time one of his competitors designs a longer lasting spark plug, the E-Cat will have changed the world.
Hank
I think Rossi has been so successful over his competitors because he has come to the US. And got hook ups with very smart people here that have really helped him. Including the military, DoD, National Instruments and more. So this has given him a real advantage.
And of course his tests that originally got all of that attention to begin with.
Peace.
To AstralProjectee
Absolutely agree with you! The US are more than crucial to LENR development! Here in Italy they would have been eliminated and Rossi put in jail….. God bless the US!
IF, as always: IF, nothing certain yet.
Sorry dude have to disagree. Even without 3rd party verification it’s gotta be the real deal. Just with visual inspection that tube is way too hot to be heated with electricity.
Agreed!
I have to disagree.
During grad school we tested Nickel based super alloy “ME3″ for use in gas turbines.
Our electrical furnaces ranged from slightly larger to slightly smaller than that shown and we tested at temperature ranges from 700-1200 C. The lead wires were approximately the same, (with some shielding though).
From my memory, closer to 1200 is more whitish but that was a few years ago.
So who knows
BW
What do you make of the possibility that the unmonitored earth wire on the electrical input could be carrying current thus defrauding the e-cat?
Translation of Cures description via vortex (thanks S.A.)
http://i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg
[The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating resistance and the reaction chamber with the active material. The cylinder bases are sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace use. Pressure sealing is not needed. The whole has been painted in black to increase emissivity and can withstand 1200 °C.
The photo shows a phase of the measurements
At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801 °C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6 Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25 Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner and outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the average ambient temperature of 35 °C. Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of distance because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera with 2% measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser thermometer from a 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who didn’t want to get cooked. Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective flow estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation cosine for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser thermometer (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).
Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.
COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] consumption is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost nonexistent. A proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and then taking a very long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.
For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are preliminary and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade with less shaky methods than a laser thermometer, in order to improve results as it’s a delicate measurement, since the inner surface is in contact with the air heated by the surface itself.
Engineers and technologists among us: looking at the picture and having read the description do you see the beginnings of a shell and tube heat exchanger? Ever seen the ammonia chillers and such that are about 10 meters long and about a meter in diameter with all the tubes inside? Boilers are made like this too??
Anyway, the pictured reactor is just one pipe inside of another slightly larger pipe with the reactants in the space between them. The two pipes are sealed at the ends. So make them ten meters long and put about thirty of them spaced inside of a (roughly) 1 meter diameter heavy pipe (the shell) and pump heat exchange medium through the inside of the tubes and around the outside of the outer tubes (inside the 1 meter shell) and you will have about 8MW thermal coming out with 2MW electric input all in the size of a 10 meter long 1 meter diameter heat exchanger. Now, of course we take the heated liquid medium (or superheated steam) to the conventional turbine. 40% of the 8MW is 3.2 MWe output for 2MWe input. I’ll take that 1.2MWe net output with no fuel and a simple conventional turbine/condenser! If we can use the heat from the condenser to do something useful so much the better.
If we have 50% self sustained operation it is much better of course but even without that we have a nice package that will fit on a flatbed truck and generate over 1 MWe with no significant fuel cost, no CO2 and no nuclear reactants or waste products.
Early days.
Looking at that picture and realizing that the hot whitish red center is the glowing inside surface of that inner pipe is an attention getter. Reminds me of looking through the site glass of a big industrial furnace. Don’t get burned!
I think your idea could replace fuel rods in nuclear fission power stations.
COBRAF/CURES site has overcharged and now is off-line.
The site is still online.
Thanks for that explanation – sounds a lot more convincing than Al’s.
@ Stephen Taylor
He uses the 10Kw Core sizes for a reason. But I suspect these same cores will eventually produce 20Kw.
If you need more Kw power you add additional cores in parallel.
10 meter cores may never be reliable because of the way the process works.
Wooohooooo check out that hot cat running……hot!
Amen!
Here’s something I don’t understand. Mr. Rossi said:
“I wake up every morning around 5 a.m. with the fear to fail, and this fear to fall is what gives me the strength to fight to survive through our technology, making real work with it. It is not a matter of chatters and converences, it is matter of life or death. So do not worry: it will be not very easy to stop us: 14 watts do not stop 1 MW.” Warm Regards, A.R.
Since Mr. Rossi claims to have invented the greatest technology in history, something that will transform life on earth, and since he claims to have succeeded in producing a 1 MW working plant and is busy making a second one, why does he wake up with the fear to fail? Moreover, why does he say “it will not be easy to stop us” when he’s already won the race?
I’m not saying he hasn’t done what he claims to have done, but it puzzles me to hear him talk as if he’s not really there yet.
He knows that he has only awakened the monster.
He is preparing for the real battle.
Respect
Kim
Maybe he has nightmares about the oil mafia
Or academic Mafia. Or government Mafia.
Organized Crime in one basket.
All of the above.
Respect
Kim
Or entrepreneurial, real world, money balance, competitor status, who got burned on the reactor yesterday problems?
The 2nd one? Govt.
I’m sure when he started out a few years ago, he had no idea where he will end up. The pace of his accomplishments is probably hitting him right now. Imagine being in his shoes.
He is also probably due for a vacation–recharge his batteries and his vision!
The man is simply driven to succeed. I suspect he craves more than money but also recognition by and the respect of the academic community. He is the type of person that will always rise above adversity. Nothing, short of death, will stop him. I am envious of such people. I suspect that to a degree the persecution (I perfer that to prosecution) he experienced in the Petroldragon affair did him some damage.
I don’t know if people realize this but in his youth, Rossi was Italian road-running champion in 1970, and in 1969 held the Junior World Record for the 24-hour run. That takes a lot determination and will and we are seeing it now as well.
Wow, that is a very interesting fact. Much overlooked. Thank you for pointing it out Lu. I seem to recall him describing this current quest as a marathon. (Relatively easy compared to a 24 hour race.)
The Skeptics use the Petrol-dragon deal to attack Rossi.
This would never have happened in the U.S. because of the ex post de facto Law that we have.
Many of Rossi’s patented Technics developed for the Petrol-dragon Waste Recovery or a form of, are used today in the Bio-Fuel developments & waste recovery we have today.
They also like to bring up the Thermal Electric device that didn’t pan out.
They Omit the Fact that the U.S. Military brought Rossi in for that research. The Project was to see if it could operate at 20% efficiency & be done cheaply.
The Results was that more Material Science needed to be done & would take time. Also Mass Manufacturing processes & precision production needed improvement.
This was all laid out in a 150 some page Report by the Military. It also Stated that Rossi was actually able to build a single unit by hand using expensive materials that did accomplish approximately 20% Efficiency. It just wasn’t able to be done cheaply or mass produced because of the above.
If Rossi’s latest claim is correct, one major implication is that it rules out several of the competing theories for how the physics of LENR actually works.
Inteligentry to Debut at PowerGen
Inteligentry has announced today that they have purchased booth space to launch their noble gas engine publicly, with volumes of product ready to purchase from manufacturers and distributors from around the world on December 11, 2012 at the PowerGen conference in Orlando.
by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News
http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602157_Inteligentry_to_debut_at_Power-Gen/
What a week!
It’s not over yet!
Don’t rest for long, ICCF-17 is on the way!
Why are there 4 wires?
Does it really need 4 heating resistors to ignite?
And why is the plastic insulation still unspoilt?
The plastic insulation is pretty far away, and shielded by that block. Depends how long its been on to radiate out that far, and what convective cooling is going on. The vertical metal bracers on either side of the device seem to show heat damage though. Can’t tell about the galvanized (?) beam the device is resting on, as the shadow obscures it, but seems to be some heat damage along the bottom most beam where there is enough light to see discoloring. I’m not a forensic scientist though!
Not sure what exactly those wires are doing either, since there’s two pair (could actually be one wire on each side that simply loops back, and looks like two). Could be each pair is acting to heat so you get heating from both sides of the cylinder. I would bet they are platinum, since that seems to be a common heat-by-resistance wire, and has a melting temp of >1,700 C
Yes, it looks like the radiation heat is damaging the paintwork.
Ged, I’m curious about the resistive heating wire. Isn’t it radiating heat equally along it’s entire length including the length outside the reactor? In that case some of the electrical input is wasted –and from the size of things it looks like at least half of it. Does that make sense?
After thinking about it, they may wrap the reactor even more than once so most of the energy will be around the reactor. Some may dissipate in the leads but it may not be much compared to the rest.
The wires have high temperature silicone rubber insulating coat.
Kind of Reminiscent of Captain Nimo
When he showed his crew members the furnace
that powered the nautilus.
20.000 leagues below the sea. ect…
Yes ?
No ?
Respect
Kim
Herb Gillis
August 10th, 2012 at 2:03 PM
Andrea Rossi:
There are some large solar thermal-electric plants that use molten salt as a means for storing the solar energy so that electricity can be generated at night. If you can reach temperatures in the 600 C to 1000 C range then it stands to reason that the same idea could be used with the hot Ecat for generating electricity. As such; it seems to me that a molten salt reservoir could be used to provide the “drive” (either electrically or thermally). All one needs to do is heat up the initial reservoir of molent salt. This could be done using conventional heat sources, but after that the system should be able to operate independently of any external drive. The salt pool becomes the buffer, and Ecat could drive itself. Does this sound reasonable? Regards.
Andrea Rossi
August 10th, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Dear Herb Gills,
Good thinking, is an idea to work with.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
I bet they used the two propane cylinders from the terrace heaters we always see on the big cat photo’s.
They will not be needing those propane heaters anymore now that they have the new 1100 degrees cigarette lighter. Nor will they need their much discussed coats any longer.
The photo of the “Hot-Cat” was taken on a Nikon Coolpix s5100. The date the photo was taken is 7-16-2012 as far as I can tell the photo was not altered in any way. I don’t know how the date of the photo coalesces with Rossi’s announcements but I thought I would put it out there.
That date actually works very well, as we know there was a report on the hot-cat done around that time, or even earlier. Rossi also got kinda quiet over those days.
thank you zero that is useful information.
The date especially is important.
@ zero
I believe that’s the exact date (7-16-2012) Rossi gave in one of his blog answers to someone along with another date of importance..
From Akira Shirakawa on Vortex which describes the photo in the post. I think it’s his direct translation of Cures post. Much easier to understand and appreciate:
http://i.imgur.com/4XlY2.jpg
[The reactor] is composed of two coaxial steel cylinders. The internal space between the two cylinders contains an electrical heating resistance and the reaction chamber with the active material. The cylinder bases are sealed with heat resistant sealant for blast furnace use. Pressure sealing is not needed. The whole has been painted in black to increase emissivity and can withstand 1200 °C.
The photo shows a phase of the measurements
At the time of this photo, the average outer surface temperature was 801 °C, with local hot spots of 873 °C. The inner surface temperature ranged from 1100 °C to over 1200 °C. Two electrical heating resistances in parallel (the 4 visible cables). Value of the resistances in parallel: 6 Ohm. AC (50 Hz) input voltage of 147 Volts. Current consumption 24.25 Ampere. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Heat power irradiated by both inner and outer walls, assumed equal for a total of 13.39 kW, including the average ambient temperature of 35 °C. Inner wall of bright white color, unapproachable under 1 meter of distance because of hot air flow. Outer wall measured by thermal camera with 2% measurement precision. Inner wall measurement by laser thermometer from a 1.2 meter distance by the shaky hand of a person who didn’t want to get cooked. Conservative, rounded down values due to heat taken off by convective flow estimated to be at least 8% on the outer wall and low irradiation cosine for the inner wall due to high irradiation angle toward laser thermometer (pointing almost in axis with the inner cylinder).
Stable reaction, without strange happenings. Virtually boring.
COP raises when 1000 °C are exceeded on the outer wall. [Fuel] consumption is that of a [nuclear] fusion reaction, that is, almost nonexistent. A proper estimate would require to turn the thing on and then taking a very long vacation before verifying the actual consumption.
For the sake of completeness, it should be noted that data are preliminary and that inner cylinder measurements will have to be remade with less shaky methods than a laser thermometer, in order to improve results as it’s a delicate measurement, since the inner surface is in contact with the air heated by the surface itself.
It seems to me that the 13.39kW is the total heat irradiated (convection heat not calculated). If this is true the COP is 13.39kW/3.56kW = 3.85. But Cures also says COP raises when 1000C are exceeded and fuel consumption is almost nonexistant so there may be a higher COP potential.
This week has been almost too much!
Don reminded me elsewhere when I did that same calculation that the drive is actually on only half the time (so far as we’ve ever heard), so the effective COP is double that. If so.
That makes sense. The report should clarify this.
Yes all this was written by Cures in 2-3 posts
Well – one has to start with the usual Rossi Caution… “if true”…
If true, this is marvellous news. It sounds like Rossi has been making remarkable progress over the last couple of months.
If true, he is streets ahead of everyone else.
If true, all the other competitors are children compared to Rossi. Only Defkalion might be closer a little bit and only because they got some good ideas from Rossi in the beginning.
Again… IF TRUE.
Its exactly what I expected and envisioned from the
descriptions he has been giving.
I’m not surprised at all.
Respect
Kim
What surprised me a lot is that he chose to release this important piece of evidence through Cures and not through Frank here
.
Put a few of these in series
and you are going to have something
to brag about!
Respect
Kim
Or matrix vaporizing a large volume of water!
Think different
The Cat will kill the Dog
The E-Cat will kill the Dogma
I wonder what the COP is when using gas (natural gas)? I imagine electrical heating is more efficient than natural gas but perhaps Rossi has some exotic technology available to him that lets him focus the NG on the reactor with high efficiency. On the other hand, electrical energy is produced by natural gas at an efficiency of 40% so that would be a better comparison. There is also transmission losses for electricity.
And by the way, what is this?
————————————
It is a Formula One E-Cat!!!
http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747&reply_id=123482996#123482996
Electricity in, electricity out, solid state. Not hard to make one guess – if real.
…or just a high temp test setup, ‘two parallel heating resistors’ mentioned, I give up
“Of course the usual ‘Rossi says’ caveats apply here — that should go without saying.”
Thanks.
The truth is that we don’t need yet another announcement from Rossi saying that his little lab has made something better. We need for the scientific and business world to realize that LENR is real, and transformative. We need 100,000 engineers working on LENR, rather than the handful we have. That will make the change.
The problem with Rossi is “Rossi Says”. This technology needs to get out of the lab and into the public eye. Real scientists need to be able to measure it, and report on it.
I know that Rossi has let people prod it from a distance. I know that MIT has a public demonstration that anyone who wants to can check out. I also know that MITs demonstration has been viewed by shockingly few of the MIT student body and staff. I know that the resistance to LENR is incredibly deep.
I wonder what would happen if Rossi produced a few thousand of his little e-cat. I wonder what would happen if he abandoned his need for UL certification, but sold them, or gave them, as experimental to labs all over the world. Would these guys figure out that there’s something real going on in the little box? That might spark the revolution.
I would also suggest to Rossi that he manufacture e-cats for sale in countries that don’t require certifications. Countries in Africa come to mind. Let these guys have the new technology, and let the safety freaks realize that they better get off their high horse or the 3rd world will overtake them.
“I would also suggest to Rossi that he manufacture e-cats for sale in countries that don’t require certifications. Countries in Africa come to mind. Let these guys have the new technology, and let the safety freaks realize that they better get off their high horse or the 3rd world will overtake them.”
Your third suggestion is how things should get done. While Rossi is trying to get the certification in US or Europe, I am sure that some poor countries will appreciate his business without the certification fuss.
Ridiculous. Without a patent, Rossi will be ripped off the moment he allows his reactors to be tested by other scientists. MIT offers no comparison, as their device doesn’t produce electricity aqnd couldn’t light a 10W bulb. Rossi has puit every cent he has into his work, while the MIT device probably cost a few hundred dollars to put together. Let Rossi stay on a roll, as he is, until he’s ready to rock ‘n roll! Ten it won’t be “Rossi says” but “Rossi does.”
I get tired of hearing people downplay the NANOR. It isn’t about power. It’s a cold fusion device that could actually be studied and measured in a classroom instead of a lab. IT GOT 10 – 14 TIMES COP. People are trying to figure out what is going on on a nuclear level. They have to study the phenomenon. The NANOR, which isn’t even at MIT anymore, was never meant to power heating units or light bulbs. It is a revoulutionary, class room research model.
Ps Get the facts Joe. An incredible amount of $ has gone into the NANOR. Mitchell Swartz has been working on this for over twenty years. Look up his site- Cold Fusion Times. He is also working with palladium. $.
Eu acredito que AR está em perigo. Ele deve vender seu invento para várias empresas o mais rápido possível. Tal invento que eu acredito que seja verdadeiro, pois, acompanho desde o inicio o seu trabalho, mudará a matriz energética mundial, tanto de geração elétrica, quanto consumo de combustíveis fósseis. Caso tenha acesso a este pequeno texto AR, por favor, coloque para o planeta esta magnífica descoberta o mais rápido possível – Você mudará o mundo poluído e com o controle nas mãos de poucos, para um mundo limpo e mais justo.
We don’t need Rossi to give away 1000 e-cats.
We need to see one that works besides on staged demonstrations.
Go Rossi Go
Johnny be Good!
Respect
Kim
Duplicate. Sorry.
Mr. Rossi. I’ve always enjoyed your amazing show, but I have a serious question. My undersanding of the technology is limited, but please tell me…If a version of the e-cat is able to produce electricity (or soon will be), why use gas at all? Gas pollutes, and one of the stated values of LENR is that it doesn’t pollute. So why use a polluting gas to run it, instead of feeding back its own pollution-free electrical energy to keep it going? It doesn’t quite make sense to me. What am I missing?
He is just thinking about future possibilities
as proof of concept.
The home e-cats will be fired by electricity…
He is showing and talking of the possibilities
Its OK
Respect
Kim
Moved.
Well I’ve no idea, but I can see there but be some feedback issues here…we know that with LENR you get energy pulses…perhaps to get the process started or to get it to continue you need a smooth energy input, not a pulsed one…I am only guess. I suppose you could store the energy as a battery, but that has its own problems.
By the way, electricity does pollute – I wouldn’t recommend living under a major power line.
What about burning hydrogen instead of natural gas?
The hydrogen could be electrolyzed with the electricity produced by the ecat, while the energy isn’t needed (e.g. at night).
At the moment, the electricity that heats the ecat is generally made by burning gas to heat water to make steam to turn a turbine to drive an alternator… – at the end you might be getting about 20% efficiency if you are lucky. Better to burn the gas directly at about 70% efficiency, or maybe more if a catalytic grid is used. Please look at the whole picture.
Frank could you post that picture
of the 1200c reactor front and center.
Please verify source.
Repect
Kim
Reliable
I wonder if Rossi knows about these little releases of info.
The picture is from an employee/researcher of Rossi.
Should be trusted.
> It’s certainly been an eventful week so far on the LENR front!
No it hasn’t Frank. This article is the usual stonewalling that we get from Rossi. If anybody bothered to view the NI Week DGT youtube video one would see that the speaker goes on to explain molten lava as being a LENR activity and stars being made by LENR reactions. You quickly realize that DGT is nuts and NI should be ashamed of being associated with LENR. The only event that was noteworthy was Celani’s professional presentation at NI Week.
> This would be an important breakthrough for a couple of reasons
Actually it’s not a breakthrough. It only serves to delay showing anybody anything of substance. If you take a step back and really think about it Frank, what Rossi claims is a breakthrough and needed is completely unnecessary. A battery bank with an inverter can provide any temporary power needed to jump start the system. Once the system starts to produce excess power the battery bank can be replenished. Sort of like a battery works in an automobile to get it started. So all of this talk about gas in lieu of electric power to get the thing going or sustain itself is nonsense.
Charles Ponzi, are you not aware of the implications of you making a statement as you have below.
—-
“the speaker goes on to explain molten lava as being a LENR activity and stars being made by LENR reactions. You quickly realize that DGT is nuts.”
—-
Would you explain how you can dismiss the claims made.
Do you have some form of precognition.
Do you have a direct line to the Almighty that preferentially keeps you informed of what is and what is not possible.
Thinking people take not the slightest notice of “opinion experts” and are quite happy to wait for any theory to face the only scientific method. research, research, research and follow the Evidence as it arises.
Thank You.
Kim
This reminds me of:
Einstein: God doesn’t play dice…
Niels Bohr: Einstein! Don’t tell God what to do…
DGT is applying their theory to unsolved mysteries. Nothing wrong with that, though I do not think they are on the right track, and it seems a bit presumptuous.
I really don’t know what the rest of your post is going on about, though.
Also, what about Kobe/Technova? We have yet to get a video of their presentation up!
DGT is applying their theory to unsolved mysteries and in the process destroying what little credibility they had. If anybody had any doubts about whether or not the Greeks are a bunch of freaks this NI Week demonstration should settle it.
Frank, It will be “a breakthrough” if we get more photos and info on that Hot-Cat test.
Sorry Charles but I think they are right. We really have no clue how stars work, we have ideas on how they work based on our current understanding of physics. Hmmm makes me wonder why our hot fusion experiments to date havent achieved a COP over 1.
Oh Chuck, you’re so negative! Think about your luxury problem trying to decide, a NG pipeline to the California ranch, or wait for e-cat. Now, if you put in your gas line not only will you have heat and hot water, when you get your home e-cat you could kick start it with NG!!
And, hey, you know the amount of CO2 produced by a hot water heater is only slightly more than human respiration over a period of time! It’ll help your garden grow. You gotta chill Chuck. Kick back, enjoy the ride. Life is meant to be fun!
NG pipeline to the ranch? Actually that’s a 50 foot pipe to a propane tank not pipeline. You misunderstood. LPG not NG. I would prefer to install an electric water heater. Problem is electric water heaters are awfully inefficient compared to propane.
My ranch east is a ski lodge on the Polish/Czech border. Shoulder deep in snow. Snow and freezing conditions occur from November to April. To prevent the pipes from freezing the place needs to be constantly heated when used. It is 330M2 (3000 sq. ft.) = huge. To heat a place like that I would first need to install styrofoam insulation on the exterior: roughly $20,000 USD. Then I would have to install a gas heating system: roughly $6,000 USD. That’s too expensive so I just use the place during the summer and drain the water out of the pipes for the winter. If LENR comes around I can just buy a $50 USD electric space heater for each and every room.
Yes, I was referring to a 1″ approx pipe from propane tanks. CNG, LPG, all methane is CHEAP. Go for it or invest in a Whispergen CHP unit:
http://www.whispergen.com/main/achome/
Or a SOFC micro-CHP like they’re using in Japan these days:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2012/03/04/japan-moves-the-needle-on-micro-chp/
Frankly, at the speed the field is accelerating and with the Obama Admin supporting a VOTE MAGNET LENR research program… You may have an e-cat from Home Depot available by Spring. One last thought, lots of big home owners close off their space in winter and only heat say, 1200sq ft. Lots more economical. Plumbing may be a problem.
Is anyone keeping track of the number of unverified claims that Rossi has made? They might number into the dozens if not hundreds now. Does it seem like his unverified claims become bigger and grander whnever a potential competitor makes an announcement?
If he has succeeded at using natural gas for this, that changes the view on how the reaction is best stimulated. It has always seemed like electromigration or some sort of electrical stimulation is important for maximum reaction.
On the other hand, it’s possible this is not giving maximal reaction rates and is indeed less than electrical would give, but is sufficiently good for the applications it is to be used for.
Yeah… it is just s natural gas space heater.
no fusion or lenr even happening.
just a natural gas space heater ( and expensive)
Robert, its getting a bit late in the game for content-free garbage like that. Why don’t you pop over to ecat news where such views would probably be more welcome.
Admin said, And by the way, what is this?
I would say it is a new revolutionary lighter for cigar smokers.
Thanks, George, that’s what I thought — just needed some confirmation
Will you try to get some more photos from Rossi from that Hot-Cat test?
Old saying.
I wouldn’t touch that with a ten foot pole.
New saying.
I wouldn’t light my cigar with that without a 10 foot pole.
I thought it was a hot dog cooker…
Gas? NG?? He’s putting a flame inside the reactor? Must be external heating of the catalyst to start/maintain the reaction. Personally I don’t like flames, but hey, as Frank points out, NG is CHEAP these days. There is a huge glut, and if ZERO electric energy is needed to start the e-cat reaction, its overall cost of operation is reduced.
That hot pipe, comes from Italy somewhere and looks like an open ended reactor after being unsealed. Or it’s non LENR entirely.
The post below, i should say explicit, the photo is the hot cat, at 1200 Cº at least is what the guys says.
If that is indeed a photo of the famous Hot-Cat, then there should be more from where it comes from. WHO HAS THEM?
And if this guy, Cures, can post them, I am sure Frank can also get them from Rossi and post them here. It worth a try.
Cures is a Rossi’s employee or at least its working in there.
I got that.
What it appears to be happening now is that Rossi let Cures upload that image, so maybe it’s worth a shot to ask Rossi to cough more photos and info on Hot Cat.
I think it’s better not to ask Rossi about it, even if he certainly knows.
Some things are better left unasked.
There appear to be any number of small ‘tube furnaces’ which could be tricked out to look like the ‘Hot Cat’ supposedly shown in the picture, complete with cheery glow. So, sorry, but the photo doesn’t prove anything.
We know the source of the picture. So, sorry, but you are wrong.
It’s not the source of the picture but the source of the thing pictured that counts: and that thing could be a modified, commercially-made tube furnace.
If you have absolute proof of the personal integrity of the picture’s source, then I stand corrected. Otherwise, no.
Or, he’s heating the chamber with the H2 feed until it reaches temp, then shuts off combustion and starts H2 again to ignite LENR. Easier.
Might be a platinum catalytic burner – much more eco-friendly than your old fashioned flame thingy, i.e., about 4 times more efficient than centrally generated electricity.
Its explained there, maybe an italian to english translation someone?
http://www.cobraf.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=5747
Of course you do , there are two coaxial steel cylinders. The interior space between the two cylinders contains the resistance-heating and the reaction chamber with the active material. The bases are sealed with mastic by the blast of Saratoga. No need for sealing pressure. The all painted black paint to increase the emissivity and able to withstand 1200 ° C This is a phase of the measurement. At the time of the picture, the average temperature of the external surface was of 801 ° C with a local peak of 873 ° C. Inner surface temperature from 1100 ° C to over 1200 ° C. 2 parallel resistance heating (4 cables that you see). Value of the parallel 6 ohms. Voltage alternating current power supply (50 Hz) of 147 volts. Current consumption 24.25 amps. Power consumption 3.56 kW. Power radiated by the two inner and outer walls considered equal to a total of 13.39 kW gross average ambient temperature of 35 ° C internal wall at white heat unapproachable sub meter for the hot breath of air. Outer wall measured by camera with precision 2% of measured value. Inner wall measured with a laser thermometer from 1.2 meters away from shaky hand eager to keep the skin attached. conservative default values (much) because convective heat removal estimated at least 8% of the outer wall and cosine radiation down to inner wall due to high angle of radiation to a laser thermometer (pointing almost in line with the inner cylinder) Reaction stable with no ideas in her head. Almost boring.
That photo says Cures’s posts are with Rossi’s authorization, no way he is giving that info without Rossi’s knowledge…
Hmm, that would be a COP a little over 4. But, it does say the measurements are conservative. Also, this shows the core is very small indeed.
Assuming all this information is correct. Very dramatic picture!
The COP of 4 that you calculated assumes a continuous duty cycle. Based on Rossi”s other work a duty cycle of .5 is more probable and would give a COP of 8.
Oh, true, good catch, Don! I had forgotten about the drive only being needed half the time.
What i dont get is where the hydrogen input/chamber is ??
Rossi says he has been doing without an external hydrogen source for some time now. He says somehow the hydrogen is infused in the nickel powder.
This is the same as Celani with his demo at NIWeek; his wire was pre-saturated with the hydrogen it needed for reaction. No gas feed.
It’s very possible the e-cat is pre-saturated with hydrogen gas, but another hydrogen storage material is also possible; or could be the nickel alloy used by Rossi has a very high hydrogen saturation ability, such as those with magnesium tend to have. The problem is having enough hydrogen to last those 6 months.
According to various hints and clues, the hydrogen (sufficient for 6 months usage) is in the form of a light metal hydride compound. Its not clear whether this is mixed in with the nickel or in a separate containment. Hydride mixtures can be designed to produce particular hydrogen pressures at various design temperatures, and will re-absorb the hydrogen when they cool. Temperature can therefore be used as an indirect controller, acting via hydrogen gas pressure.
For awhile now he’s stated the hydrogen is released by some storage material inside the reactor proper; no more hydrogen gas tanks. There are several materials that do this, such as magnesium alloys, that when heated release their hydrogen.
That’s my best guess.
I believe you are correct.
There are many forms of hydride Hydrogen.
Respect
Kim
There’s a better translation on vortex:
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg68781.html
Andrea Rossi
August 10th, 2012 at 12:27 PM
Dear Luca Coppola:
Do not worry, we never waived our capacity to manufacture indipendently our plants, and this is the reason why we have success now: we do not need funding, we are funded by our Customers; should I base our development on “funding” coming from gorillas or governments probably I would be at the point to produce an excess power of 14 watts ( should the Sun shine through the windows…).
As I always said, an inventor without a manufacturing system is like a general without an army, whose will is unavoidably limited by the will of the generals with armies.
We are making enormous progresses in these days, thanks to the fact that we can take fast decisions in our factories, without a single cent of funding from gorillas and governments which could limit our space of action or delay the time terms. It is thanks to this that now LENR is a reality based on solid plants and not, as it has always been before us and still is outside our concern, a laboratory toy where everybody is so happy to produce some watt lightyear far from making real work and without the anxiety of real working plants. You know, when you play the little genius in a lab without any necessity to make real money through real work you can satisfy yourself with 14 watts. If you have to pay installments, you need real plants, and you gotta do them, if you want not to have troubles. I wake up every morning around 5 a.m. with the fear to fail, and this fear to fall is what gives me the strength to fight to survive through our technology, making real work with it. It is not a matter of chatters and converences, it is matter of life or death. So do not worry: it will be not very easy to stop us: 14 watts do not stop 1 MW.
Warm Regards,
A.R.
It’s good to see Rossi acknowledging the “gorillas” as well as the governments. From years of watching Silicon Valley at close range I have high confidence that the VC’s are right now talking to their top investors about their soon-to-be-opened LENR investment funds. Be assured we will not be on the early invitation list. When that money starts to flow Defkalion and Brillouin will get an entirely different type of attention.
Your timing seems right Jim. The boys on Sand Hill should be all agog about now. Trouble is, so few people with any expertise in the field. And it’s going to move fast. I expect we’ll see a mushroom of start-up announcements around Mountain View and Stanford. I can see Hagelstein and Jet being hotly pursued. Defkalion would have no problem with financing in the Valley – Vancouver is far less fertile.
Rossi likewise will be offered a block deal for unsold territories – subject to his approvals. I would think Sid Kimmel to be an early in investor. And on the QT, William Gates Jr. It’s about saving lives.
“We are funded by our Customers”. Exactly, if it’s all as good as it sounds, you’ve nothing to worry. I got my e-cat order for purchase in 2013.
“Do do not worry: it will be not very easy to stop us” – Gotta love those words of inspiration.
Alrighty Tidy!!!
Were of to the races now.
Natural gas is cheap. (for Now)
Respect
Kim
As Frank says it may be that the hot gas i.e. methane or propane is only needed for start up and that the reactor can be configured to heat gas for a feedback loop that makes the reactor self sustaining. The implications are obvious.
Yeah Baby!
Were talking house boat fully energized.
Respect
Kim
Kim, I am enjoying your recent enthusiasm. Refreshing!
Andrea Rossi is feeding us new ideas all the time. But where is the beef?
Would Netscape have said if you had asked them a similar question in the summer of 1994?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape#Early_years
For Rossi’s beef, please ask directly US Navy
and for Defkalion’s greek goat, to … ‘soviets’… as it appears in http://www.cobraf.com forum