Defkalion GT Release Paper of ICCF-17 Presentation

It has been a busy couple of weeks for Defkalion Green Technologies. Last week they were in Texas presenting at NI Week, and today they were on the opposite side of the globe at the 17th International Conference on Cold Fusion in Daejeon, South Korea. Along with their presentation, DGT released a paper on the technical characteristics and performance of their Hyperion reactor which they plan to start commercializing next year.

Much of the information presented in the paper is contained in the slide show that was presented at NI Week in Texas. They summarize their findings as follows:

The common nuclear active environment in which LENR occurs is proposed to be vacancies in the crystal lattice of a heavy metal of a critical size and geometry where excited atoms of hydrogen interact. This process results in different transmutation paths, followed by a resonance process that dissipates energy by emission.

The paper discusses how in the DGT LENR process, a spark plug-like apparatus transforms hydrogen into Rydberg State Hydrogen (RSH) atoms which react with the nickel lattice. When the hydrogen electrons are in the vicinity of the proton and nickel atom for a short moment, a transmutation effect is created, releasing gamma rays and heat production. DGT says that their understanding is that “the RSH nuclei is disguised as a neutron. As a result, Coulomb forces between such nuclei are almost zero during this short time window.”

They report, like Andrea Rossi, that no high energy gamma emissions have ever been detected and say that most likely, these gamma rays are absorbed by heavy electrons.

Defkalion reports that their reactors are manually fired around 10 times per hour to create the reactions, and that the COP ratio (energy in/energy out) ranges from 1:8 – 1:22, with maximum temperatures of 849 C. The maximum heat energy produced “per reaction cycle” is 92Wh. The longest test run reported lasted for six weeks and no degradation in performance was reported over that time.

DGT state that their path towards industrialization involves expanding lab facilities in Canada and Switzerland during the latter part of this year, carrying out industrial prototype tests and securing certification ‘within the next months’, and setting up production lines and support networks ‘within the next year’. DGT have always stated that their goals for production of Hyperion products will be through licensing their technology to third party manufacturers, so presumably the production lines mentioned will include those of their licensees.

DGT mentions that questions about this presentation can be addressed to the company via email, or the forum on their website which will reopen to the public on August 20th.


  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    I’m Banned from their Forums for critical thinking..

    Do not state anything that might make them look in a bad light or you will also get a ban.

    I think Defkalion has always been attempting to ride on Rossis coat tails and attempting to replicate/steal the tech. I’d be surprised if they even have this reactor they claim.

    • Peter_Roe

      Same as before then – probably right through to when they close down the ‘forum’ again. I hope they can fix their problems but as far as I’m concerned they’re back down there somewhere below Blacklight.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I agree, they are moving to Vancouver with their three shells and the ball, to continue their shell game. Whatever they have, if anything, they stole from Rossi.

  • Hank Mills

    Test Report Count

    Rossi: 12+

    Defkalion: 0

    • Niemand

      Defkalion folks last 3 months are writing/talking: “we are capable of TRIGGERING and MONITORING a reaction”.

      When I point this as “they are not capable of MAINTAINING/SUSTAIN reaction”

      I was crushed here by some fanatics.

      They simply not want lied to level with criminal consequences, so they very carefully choose words.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

        ??? your (and some other similar) kind of biased tricky interpretation to lower the claim of DGT seems funny, if not strange.

        If you can trigger and control, you maintain it in the useful way.
        the trick of DGT, compared of (what seems) Rossi, is that they kick it on rhythm, getting better COP , better speed of control, instead of slowly putting it at the edge of burnout.
        In fact if you understand that there is many non-linear process intricated, that are sensible to various derivatives of the temperature and arcing, it seems smart to kick and stop, so that the reactor heat than cool on an predicted rhythm, avoiding melt-down.
        If you keep the reaction stable, in case of overheating, there is no way to stop the reaction, which is self catalysing.
        However even if the reaction is self-catalytic at short term, yet not at long term, stopping the arcing let it subcritical at medium term, thus slowly decaying.

        by the way if you want to understand LENR, just compare to wood fire.
        If you have bush and logs available,a good idea is to send regularily, when needed, batch of bush (arc) inside the fire to burn the wood, instead of waiting for the logs to burn steadily, with the risk to have the logs starting to melt the barbecue without any way to stop it (assume no water, no removal).

        LENR is a selfcatalytic, multiple time-constant process, like barbecue with various kind of wood (bush, logs, green logs).

        Pulse modulation control is something classical in engineering, and we are no more constrained to sustained control mode.

  • Sanjeev

    http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg69102.html

    Jed Rothwell reports that Celani’s lenr cell demo is working at iccf now. About 20 W of excess heat.

    Mainstream is still reporting that such effects could not be replicated since 1989. I saw that in many news articles on Fleischmann’s death. These reporters will not cover any such demo even if it happens outside their house. There is no reporting on NIweek so far.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Celani is the real winner here. I think great things will come out of him soon.

      Celani’s spoken English is hard to understand. Many details of his presentation escaped me. I will ask him for copies of the slides. He is usually happy to share them.

      He concluded by saying he plans to improve the insulation and put it in self-sustaining mode, soon. That is to say, trigger the reaction with external power much less than 48 W, and then when it heats up anomalously, cut the external power and let it run in heat after death mode indefinitely. The current does stimulate wire activity, I guess with electromigration, but it is not essential once the reaction can begin.

      That will put to rest any concerns about the calorimetry, needless to say. That is a good idea. Celani is no fool.

      He says he thinks the wire acts mainly as a proton conductor.

      Pure, clean, as-received constantan does not work. The stuff is very cheap, by the way. Available in unlimited amounts.

      I think he said the longest run with this device in Italy was 2 months continuous. The biggest technical hurdle with this and the other wires he has been working on is that the wire breaks. Hydrogen embrittlement, I suppose. Constantan is not particularly immune to this but it seems to hold up at high temperatures.

      - Jed

      • Ged

        Amazing the device is still working after being dismantled/assembled so many times, and taking a trip half way around the globe.

        Reproducibility? There you go.

  • georgehants

    Tuesday, August 14, 2012
    The study of the Fleischman & Pons Effect
    Through Materials Science Development
    —-
    After getting permission – thanks to the precious intercession of one of the many qualified readers of this blog – now I can share with all the slides submitted on 28/10/2011 by Vittorio Violante during the Workshop “Forward Looking Workshop on Materials for Emerging Energy Technologies “, held at the European Commission (workshop that led to the publication of the report Materials for Emerging Energy Technologies ).
    I believe this work (which you can download from the link below) is particularly interesting as points out some reasons for the low reproducibility encountered in attempts to replicate the cold fusion by Fleischmann and Pons, low reproducibility due not to absence of the phenomenon – mantra that critics of cold fusion repeat now only to convince themselves – but to poor understanding of the phenomenon – now made ​​clear to all the people who are motivated by genuine scientific spirit.
    Good reading:
    http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2F22passi.blogspot.co.uk%2F2012%2F08%2Fthe-study-of-fleischman-pons-effect.html%3Futm_source%3Dfeedburner%26utm_medium%3Dfeed%26utm_campaign%3DFeed%3A%2Bblogspot%2FGneRw%2B%28%253Cp%2Balign%253D%2522right%2522%253EVentidue%2Bpassi%2Bd%2527amore%2Be%2Bdintorni%2B%2B%2B%253C%2Fp%253E%29

  • Visitor

    There are thousands of us following and wishing.
    There is a petition for acknowledgment.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/cold-fusion-renewable-energy

    How come there are only 223 signers?
    Come on CF fans, go and sign.

    • Sanjeev

      I will not discourage all of you from signing. But these things are a joke. Those in power, do whatever they want to do, check what happened to TSA petition.

      http://epic.org/2012/08/white-house-pulls-down-tsa-pet.html

      They simply want to maintain a delusion that they are listening to your demands and acting on them. Its all a lie.

      The real change is brought about by people, govts do nothing much, except holding on to the status quo.

      • Martin

        Petitions to government, lol, it’s same in the UK, total waste of time

  • hammerskoj

    Cures has disclosed in a previous post on Cobras forum that Rossi’s powder yields at the present an output of 480kW/Kg, with an estimated future maximum value of 3,3MW/Kg. The leacked reactor has a net output of 9,83kW and therefore it must contains 20,4g of active powder at least and not a mere 1,5g, as recently stated specs of the 10kW e-Cat module. Any hint to overcome such a discrepancy?

    • Hank Mills

      The 20g of material they consider as active is a conservative figure.It includes weight that comes from other sources. In reality, the amount of nickel used is far less.

      • hammerskoj

        It seems to me that Cures means 480kW/Kg AND 3,3MW/Kg as NET ratings, that is for active nickel only. If you think ballasted nickel in reactor – say in a 1:10 ratio – second figure change to 33MW/Kg, an improbable value.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          It would be nice if Cures himself clarified this (and other arguments used by skeptics such as a 800 degrees C surface should be red hot while it’s not in the photo) in the Cobraf forum, which appears to have been taken over by pathoskeptics since he left / was forced to leave (?) due to his recent information disclosure.

          • hammerskoj

            800 degrees C from a black body source is deep in infrared and reactor is coated with heat-resistant matt-black paint, no steel on sight [look to the small yellow spot left and up, under the putty]. Hoax, if any, is not in reactor’s image [note that Cures has never related the exact instant of photo to the test time-line, too], but in the two couples of electric wires: power is sure in, but how much? 4kW are able to yellow heating a lot of iron. So it seems that his data could be a mere faith’s argument.

  • Dr. No

    Really 92 Wh per cycle at 10 cycles per hour?

    • Chris

      Works out to a time averaged power od 920W, I thought they claimed a smidgen more.

    • Niemand

      If they doing more then 10 cycles per hour, so their spark plugs are gone sooner then 2+2 days test timeframe. For this purpose this spark frequency is only 10 per hour.

      • artefact

        that would make sence. The spark plug is a critical part.

  • hammerskoj

    In slides 34 of his ICCF speech Takahashi cites (last row down) Brian Ahern results with PdNi nanopowder. Any news on THIS reactors?

  • georgehants

    Yesterday I removed my thousand links to Cold Fusion related sites.
    I am left with about a dozen useful bookmarks.
    The first and most important is E-Cat World.
    Having my new gas Condensing boiler fitted this week, for all my personal faith in Rossi and Cold Fusion I believe it will be some time before a fully reliable technology will hit the streets.
    Cold fusion is now indisputable and the task is to see it move forward a little quicker that the scientific administration is capable of, either psychologically or competently.
    Time for science to be taken out of the hands of science, it has been shown to be far to important to mankind to be left in the hands of biased and incompetent amateurs.
    There must be a committee of open-minded, competent people un-influenced by petty self-interest or “expert-opinion” leading science in a direction sanctioned by the people who pay these clowns, the people.

    • Peter_Roe

      “biased and incompetent professionals” I would say – some of the amateurs seem to be doing reasonably well. You’re right though. At this stage we seem to be largely stuck in a new age of the dilettante – the ‘gentleman amateur’ (and gentlewoman of course). It will largely stay this way until multinationals like Siemens start pouring money into CF research, universities and research organisations see which way the wind is blowing and adjust their funding policies accordingly, and the ‘prestigious’ research rags get their heads out of their a*s*s.

      • georgehants

        Peter, you are right, you know more what I meant to say than I do.
        How about science policy being taken away from science and becoming an social outside decision, that would still have problems but must be better than it is at present.

        • Chris

          Yeah, just what we need, some of our taxes going into trendy buzzwords… chemtrails, homeopathy, Bach flowers and what are all those other things.

          I don’t think the behaviour of accademic institutions has been all that bad, despite cases such as that denounced by Hagelstein, which likely had a lot more to do with heavier donators than the one whose money was returned.

          I think part of the great difficulty was caused by P&F themselves. They acted far too hastily and made right asses of themselves and the reactions, when folks weren’t able to replicate, were quite understandable even though, rationally, more folks could have realized it was necessary to understand a bit more about it. P&F should have been more judicious and done a bit more before saying anything; they might well have realized they had seen a fluke and called for research into it, instead of making such a pumped up announcement.

          Anyway, this time around there has been increasing attention and no special interests are going to halt it. Plenty of physicists are becoming less skeptical and, quite soon, few of them will be as stubborn as Philipp Lenard was against relativity and other “Jewish science” as he called it.

          • Peter_Roe

            As you mention it, I would like to see a lot more attention on chemtrails – specifically what is in them, exactly who has arrogated to themselves the right to try to modify the Earth’s atmosphere in this way, and why they do it.

            If you don’t think that the record of academic institutions in connection with CF has been bad, then either we are on very different wavelengths, or you are not aware of the deeply corrupt nature of some of their actions.

          • Karl

            Perhaps this was just the right thing to do by F&P to make this kind of announcement. We can’t’ know of course but CF might have been hidden even longer if they had tried the usual “controlled” way. The certainly ignited a hunger to know more among thousands of researchers and innovators worldwide. Just look at Rossi.

  • georgehants

    Updates from ICCF-17
    Defkalion was there. They laid a lot of their cards on the table. Not all mark you, but I got the feeling that they were engendering a more healthy relationship with the academics and pure researchers.
    I asked Professor Meulenberg if he thought that their model of the hydrogen atom was correct and he said that he believed that ‘it was not necessary to invoke a highly oblate orbit in order to get the electron close enough to the proton to cancel out the Coulomb charge.’ He felt that this Condensed Matter Nuclear Physics is going to move Quantum Physics from a very useful tool into one that is both useful and intuitive.
    I think that I understand parts of his model and it would be a dereliction of duty for me to not at least try to impart my understanding to you…,well…er…I did try, but find that too many of my sacred cows are being skittled. I had better leave the task to brighter minds than mine.
    http://coldfusionnow.org/updates-from-iccf-17/

  • GreenWin

    Charles Ponzi links us to the LA Times hatchet hewn “obituary” for Martin Fleischmann. Ponzi claims the Times “…says it all. The magic word is ‘replicate.’ None of these claims have been replicated or can be replicated.” What he cleverly DOES NOT tell you is the Times writer Thomas H. Maugh II actually says:

    “The electrochemist, together with former student Stanley Pons, purportedly achieved cold fusion at the University of Utah in 1989, but they were never able to replicate the experiment.”

    This, in the “art” of disinformation leads the reader to believe the LA Times says current LENR experiments have not been replicated. Pure, utter hogwash! We have 23 years of replications. LENR experiments have been replicated hundreds of times around the world over, and over again. Dr. Rob Duncan reminds us three National Laboratories have replicated.

    However, let’s examine Thomas H. Maugh II’s confused, incomplete obit. First, Maugh was an MIT undergrad and chemist who has been a writer for the LA Times since Pons & Fleischmann’s announcement. Maugh twists his obit to make it appear as if Fleischmann’s cold fusion experiments all failed. Abundantly false. Pure F U D. Maugh implies the entire LENR field is without merit and pointedly avoids any mention of current cold fusion replications at three National Laboratories, or at NASA, MIT, SRI, Navy, Uni Missouri, etc. Much less a working cold fusion reactor on public display at a scientific convention last week.

    More interesting is what Thomas Maugh wrote for the same newspaper in 1989:

    “The vessel is cooled to the temperature of liquid nitrogen and allowed to warm to room temperature. During the warming process, the vessel emits bursts of neutrons. The process can be repeated over and over.

    These bursts of neutrons are the most convincing evidence that cold fusion actually occurs, according to Nobel laureate Robert Schrieffer of UC Santa Barbara. ‘Something quite special is apparently going on.’”

    In a separate Times article:

    “Physicist Howard O. Menlove of Los Alamos [National Laboratory] reported last Wednesday that, in two separate types of experiments, he and his colleagues had seen the same amount of neutrons observed by Jones. It was the first confirmation of cold fusion by a U.S. government laboratory.” 5/30/1989 T. Maugh II, LA Times

    The obit submitted by Fleischmann’s family states Dr. Martin Fleischmann, considered a world class electrochemist, was a Fellow of the Royal Society, Britain’s Academy of Sciences. Thomas Maugh II pointedly leaves this out of his obit. Why would that be, if not incompetence??

    • freethinker

      Is it ignorance, incompetence or pure evil?
      Or all above?

      Doesnt matter. It angers me either way.

    • daniel maris

      Yep – false, false and false again!

    • Peter_Roe

      Good digging on the early Maugh quotes GW. This transition from observed reality to a fabricated one seems to happen in politics and journalism at a particular level as individuals rise through the ranks. Previously good hacks suddenly begin to ‘report’ predetermined lies and spin the truth, previously idealistic politicians support policies they spoke out against in their earlier careers.

      If you fail to make the transition, your career stops at that point, and at the very least you will go back one step. Maugh’s subtle hatchet job on Martin Fleishmann is a particularly slimy example of perception management by someone who has ‘transitioned’ successfully.

      That ‘Charles Ponzi’ would seek to promote it is no more than might be expected, given the history of his comments. I am actually rather surprised that he is still permitted to post here.

      • Peter_Roe

        I should also add academia to politics and journalism. It seems to be necessary to sell out in all these areas in order to progress past a certain point.

        “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them… well, I have others.”
        Groucho Marx

        • GreenWin

          Ha! Another LOL Peter!

      • Andrew Macleod

        To be honest the whole idea of “not reproducable” being printed so much is a tactic of the media. They first start by planting a seed of why cold fusion was shoved aside. You will see this more and more in the coming months. They know it’s comming. When Irrfutable proof is published I can see the headlines now…. previously unreproducable experiments of cold fusion now reproducable and understood.

        The layman will read this and think its true because “he remembers reading about it awhile ago”. This was used by the US media in regards to Libian campaign. NATO was given permission to go in and protect civilians. Yet every bomb dropped was targeting the Libian army not the rebels, even tho the rebels we doing bad things to civilian gadaffi supporters. At this time the news outlets reporting on “operation free Libia” was talking about the best way to get rid of gadaffi.

        • GreenWin

          Great comments gentlemen. Perhaps a tangential benefit of cold fusion commerce will be a hard look at these elite “transitions.” Frankly I view the corruption of principles to be the heart of the problem. Guys like Maugh think no one will hold a mirror up to them. My message is, think again. In a universe programmed to reflect one’s behavior – no one escapes scrutiny. That’s karmic isn’t it?

        • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

          Andrew maybe we should lower our quality standards and take your “irrefutable proof” on faith. Who needs to replicate cold fusion when we have assurances and promises from the people who brought us the “irrefutable proof” that they will provide us with a product sooner than later.

          Truth be told the cold fusion proponents and their eagerness to ditch all standards of quality are the worst enemies of cold fusion today.

          • Peter_Roe

            Charles, your concern about the image of cold fusion is truly heart warming. Perhaps you could adopt the catch phrase of the late UK comedian Hughie Green: “And I mean that most sincerely, folks”.

    • David Jensen

      Thomas H Maugh earned degrees in English and Chemistry, but he never really worked as a scientist or researcher. He’s only been a writer and reporter, specializing in scientific and pseudo-scientific topics. One of his more famous pieces deals with new methods to guess penis length in human males by measuring the length of their fingers.

      Thomas H. Maugh II has been a science and medical writer at the Times for 23 years. Before that, he was on the staff of the journal Science for 13 years. He has bachelor’s degrees in English and chemistry from MIT and a doctorate in chemistry from UC Santa Barbara.

      • GreenWin

        Thanks for the detail David. It would seem Mr. Maugh II, comes up short on a number of accounts.

  • Pingback: Defkalion GT Release Paper of ICCF-17 Presentation | E-Cat News Live Feed

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Fake Paper most likely.

    Nobody living has ever seen a hyperion that will attest to it. The specc sheet they listed last year my teenage son could have faked better and at least got the spelling correct.

    They have openly lied and have previously said they were testing hundreds of ecats and then months later they said they had a few. This lie is discussed on their own forums.

    I 100% support Rossi, but defkalion is an entity attempting to get in on the wealth. I believe they have absolutely nothing, and just want investors to raise their stocks.

    Their release at the conference will be nothing but yapping.

    Yap, yap, yap, yap. Shut up Defkalion plz.

    • http://www.lenrweb.com Tyler van Houwelingen

      I have spoken with a couple people here at the conference that have seen a Hyperion in action. Sterling Allen also saw one several months back and posted pics on pesn. It is real, it produces high power, they just do not have good control over it yet. (IMHO)

      tyler

      • Frank

        Just one advice: If you want to get/keep any credibility, then don’t refer to A. Sterling as a source on which you base your confidence …

        • georgehants

          Frank, Sterling is a source of much good information.
          He does not differentiate as it is obviously impossible for anybody to to so, between perfect and imperfect information. Only Science in it’s usual arrogant way tries to make out they can.
          If you do not like to have information that goes against some sort of religious belief, best not to read most honest websites.
          Most of us I think would rather have free reporting, with a proviso that the information is to be checked by ourselves, than most of science that excepts only censored and allowed information to be disseminated to its closed-minded members.
          I think Cold Fusion is a good example and feel that you encouraging people like Sterling to dig beyond the allowed Dogma and Deceit of the establishment would be better advice.

    • Omega Z

      I give them a chance of having something.

      But, I think they have problems controlling it.
      Hence, the power surge 10 times per hour to keep it going without runaway & meltdown. Probably providing an erratic heat variance. No stability.

      I think they keep buying time hoping they’ll figure it out.

      • Peter_Roe

        “keep it going without runaway & meltdown” – Is that something that’s been claimed by DGT? I get more of an impression of a process that just dies away if it is not periodically kicked back into action (which I think may also be the case with Rossi’s devices).

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          that is the trick.
          To avoid runaway, you make it subcritical in the long term, yet temporarily supercritical…
          No meltdown, but no extinction, since it get restarted on rhythm.

          Rossi method is very different, since it looks like you heat long, and maintain at the edge of criticality.
          Anyway it need to be started, but less often.

          DGT trick is also the with plasma the starting is fast and consume few.

  • Ivan_cev

    This is why I love Franchesco Celani experiment, is it 14 wonderful excess watts.
    Still not seriusly tested, but is getting closer.
    Profesor Celani, my deep respect for your efforts.
    Rossi,DGT,Nanor etc… They have obscure claims with with too much secrecy as they pursue finantial benefit, not humanity benefit.
    Nanor seems a better back box test, but more disclosure is needed.
    The reason LENR does not avancing fast is rosie Greed.

  • http://www.lenrweb.com Tyler van Houwelingen

    Greetings from ICCF-17,

    After seeing the DGT presentation, speaking with them and speaking with people who have been onsite to see the hyperion in Greece, my take is that they are farther away from having a commercial ready device than we had hoped. Based on what people are telling me here with first hand knowledge, as recently as 3 weeks ago they were still unable to obtain stable demos of their technology (problems with the spark plugs failing), thus I suspect no chance of any 3rd party results soon as we had hoped and they had promised. They stated something along these lines yesterday, saying now they will release 3rd party results only after receiving certification. :(

    That said, DGT does appear to be pretty sound both with the science and engineering, however I believe they will need more resources and a bit of luck to get this to market in the next 6-12 months. IMHO

    Brillouin is also very solid, as we knew, but still probably at least 1 year from commercial readiness as well. IMHO

    That just leaves Rossi in the short term and there are lots of mixed messages about him. Some things people with first hand knowledge are telling me makes me more confident, some things less.

    At this point on day 2 of the show I am lowering my optimism of commercial readiness in my presentation a bit. Maybe it will come back up before Friday when I present, we shall see.

    By the way, Celanis demo is being setup now and looks AWESOME. Finally seeing LENR first hand is very cool. With 25W excess heat expected, I will see if we can boil some water for the coffee here at the conference….

    tyler

    http://www.lenrproof.com

    • Miles

      Brilliant Power-point Presentation. Good Work Tyler…I see you’ve updated it 13/08/2012. I believe Rossi also said somewhere at JONP to send you information to keep the facts updated in your slide.

      - Seeing is believing.

    • Peter_Roe

      Thanks very much for the update and ‘scuttlebutt’, Tyler. Please keep us posted on developments at ICCF-17.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

      thanks for the news.

      About DGT, if spark-plug reliability is their last problems, is it not far from finished, in weeks or few month, if not already during last 3 weeks?

      Rossi, if claims are confirmed, have a good results, and 300C higher temperature, but much less controllability (hour instead of minutes).

      Brillouin despite positive opinion seems far away.
      What is so attractive in their position ?

      • jfab

        “Brillouin despite positive opinion seems far away. What is so attractive in their position ?”

        They don’t look like frauds.

        Not yet.

  • jacob

    Looks to me DGT are a full year behind Rossi,after all they were only able to replicate what they borrowed from Rossi.

    the Premier of Alberta Canada is going to pull some strings so DGT can can receive millions to keep their experiments just inside a nice well equipped laboratory ,through which the Government gets free coffee and donuts to supply the BC RCMP.

    • Veblin

      If you had read the information, you would know that about the only thing Defkalion and Rossi have in common is they have Ni/H reactors.

      Defkalion designed something very different. Anyone saying they copied Rossi’s reactor is just wrong.

      • GreenWin

        Er, nickel powder catalyst. H2. The CEO admitted to appropriating the catalyst elemental content. If they hookup with ICBC they’ll be right at home.

  • Hank Mills

    Defkalion’s paper was interesting in some ways, but when it came to actual test data it was tremendously lacking. It is a shame that after all this time they still are not willing to share a single test report that backs up their claims of high temperatures, high COP, and high output. I find it very suspicious that after all the people they claimed have went to their offices to perform tests, they have not allowed one of them to post a document detailing their findings.

    • lukedc

      “It is a shame that after all this time they still are not willing to share a single test report that backs up their claims of high temperatures, high COP, and high output”

      And Rossi has? I would trust Defkalion over Rossi at the moment as at least they are braving a public appearance.

    • Tony76

      They allow bodies/corporations to go and validate (signing an NDA).
      Justifiably, bloggers are not on their radar at the moment.

  • daniel maris

    Interesting, detailed stuff.

  • Miles

    Over all COP (Total input electric energy : Total output heat energy) 1:8 to 1:22, Measured in a typical 48h run with a frequency of 10 manually triggered reaction cycles per hour.

    The Picture in the Appendix Fig. 3 looks rather small compared to the other reactors used. Seems you don’t need a big reactor to obtain bigger COP output.

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    Glad to hear they are reopening their Web site forum, which seems like it’s been closed for almost a year. But how ironic it would be if they got to market before Mr. Rossi!

    • daniel maris

      Rossi claims to be at market already with his 1MW machine.

      • http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/defkalion-gt-release-paper-of-iccf-17-presentation/ captain

        for skeptics, snakes and the like:

        Yeah, Rossi is already selling his 1MW thermal plants: what more?

        Before saying he’s a liar or that he has nothing, simply buy one plant, keep it running and observe carefully what such a plant is capable of…

        Then come on here and post your opinions.

    • jacob

      not interested to go to their forum ,they don’t have what it takes,they just running around with someone else’s borrowed ideas ,like chickens with their heads cut of ,avoiding being found out about ,about the truth ,which led to the breach of contract between them and Rossi.

      • Tony76

        Ridiculous.
        Read the ICCF17 DGT paper. Congratulations to DGT.

        Perhaps you are a supporter of Amazon patenting a button (fast check-out) on a screen?
        Humanity is enriched by sharing ideas, which is how science and other areas best proceed. Those seeking short-term commercial protection should get a patent.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          And now they are sharing many ideas.
          Probably many processes (idea cannot be patented) are patented, but it can give hint to well prepared brains.

          What I appreciate in their approach, engineer approach, is that they used off-the shelves ideas, off-the shelves material, off-the shelves methods, yet the assembling is creative.

          Nothing exceptional, yet good engineer job.

          Using the foam is a good idea, yet could be expected (hard to know if it can be patented, since it is evidence when you admit surface is the key point).

          Maybe the secret is in the sauce around nickel and ceramic, but I expect it was proposed in LENR papers, or already known in material science.

          Rossi seems to have taken a different path, using static heat, slower control… in his leaked photo I don’t see the RF separate feed, but maybe is it inductive heating…

          Both solution seems complementary and deserve respect.

          Brillouin and Celani seems behind, but they propose different ideas and could launch a new path, a new engineering compromise.

      • Veblin

        jacob not interested, and it shows.

  • Camilo

    Paper released as word document, weird. Why not PDF? Otherwise, is more a technical report than a scientific paper. Interesting, but still a “DGT says”.

    • Tony76

      DGT Says with a great deal of technical know-how addressed to scientists: a gift to the world.
      Not to be compared with Rossi-Says – pure grandstanding claims and farce addressed to bloggers.

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    Obituary for Fleischmann this morning in the Los Angeles Times: “Cold Fusion Claim Never Replicated”.

    As fantastic and amazing and detailed as these claims seem the fact remains that the same obituary would apply.

    These things really need to be replicated outside of the lab that is making claims otherwise they are useless and pointless.

    • daniel maris

      Like at MIT? Oh no, you don’t accept that.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        Has anyone been able to reproduce the demonstration done by a professor at MIT?

        By the way I don’t accept unwarranted name dropping on the part of LENR proponents.

        • jacob

          Ponzi,those who hold the power in this world are masters of misinformation and propaganda ,so sad ,you believed them, are you just naive to believe them because you have heard their version of the story so many times?

          Obviously what does not line up ,must then, be for you unbelievable.

        • Karl S
        • daniel maris

          You said “ouside their lab” – as far as I know, the device was not in the designer’s lab.

        • Ged

          The MIT device is a replication in its own right. And now we have Celani’s replication of the effect. We have Kobe-Technova’s replication of the effect. We have SRI, ENEA, NL’s replications of the effect.

          How many replications do you need before something is replicated?

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      I give up, you win. Cold fusion/Lenr/Anomalous-Heat-Activity does not exist. Your pointing to the claim made in Fleischmann’s obituary is the last nail in the coffin of my simple minded venture into the realm of pathological science. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    • cx

      Isn’t there supposedly thousands of papers from scientific journals indicating anomalous heat available along with panel presentation by a Dr Duncan at NiWeek about the excess heat.

      • Jeff

        There is an archive of papers here: http://lenr-canr.org/index/menu/menu.php many downloadable. As for what they prove, you’ll have to use your own judgment.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        The obituary says it all. The magic word is “replicate”. None of these current LENR claims have been replicated or can be replicated. The reasons for this vary from A..Z

        • Karl S

          Have you not seen the link I responded to you in your earlier post. Stop making yourself look foolish.

        • timycelyn

          I’m getting really worried about the fantasizing I’m doing. Why, I imagined that Celani presented a demo of 15W excess power he could just turn on and off at the NI event, very repeatably. Glad good ol’ Chuck here could set me straight.

          (Note to self: Go to bed earlier and leave the wine alone….)

        • robiD

          Dear Ponzi, the obituary simply says that at the LA Times they don’t know what they are talking about, and the same is for you (especially for you), nothing more, nothing less.
          The world is full of this kind of people, politician, economist and journalists in the first positions.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          Spawar and Iwamura were replicated.
          point.
          Athanor too, but weaker results.

          NASA GRC was replicated 6 years after by Nasa.

          Spawar is enough to be sure of the fact.
          If you start to doubt on that kind of result, let us drop all todays science and start a conspiracy theory.

        • Peter_Roe

          For the tactics ‘Ponzi’ is using here, please see Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation, #9, 14 and 19, at http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm.

          It is not possible to gain any meaningful response by presenting the facts, as he is not interested in facts, only in generating noise, aka ‘topic dilution’ and in causing ‘fear, uncertainty and doubt’. These activities appear to be his sole purpose for posting on this forum.

        • Ged

          The MIT device is a replication. Celani’s device is a replication. Kobe University and Technova’s positive results are a replication. How much replication do you need to be a replication?