“The Radiations are Turned Into Heat”

Like many people, I have been examining picture of the Hot Cat leaked out of the Leonardo labs by Mr. Cures and of course notice that there is an opening through which we can see the almost white-hot interior of the reactor can be seen.

One may naturally wonder, if there is a nuclear reaction taking place, what about the harmful gamma rays that are released during the operation of the E-Cat? Wouldn’t an open reactor like this put health and life at risk. In ‘normal’ nuclear fission reactors, shielding many feet thick must be used to prevent harmful doses of radiation from leaking out.

A reader on the JONP website today asked Rossi about the radiation issue: “Doesn’t this test device leak gammas ?”

Rossi responded: “No, the radiations are turned into heat, as you will see in the report we will publish soon released by the certification nuclear engineer”

One of the things to look out for in the upcoming tests that are to be released is the levels of radiation measured. I am sure that the radiation level issue will be one of the biggest challenges that Rossi will need to overcome. It takes years and years of work to be able to install a conventional nuclear plant, mainly because of the high levels of safety precautions that have to be taken with the radioactive materials involved. If an E-Cat can do the same job as a fission plant, without any of the same concerns about radiation, then Rossi and Leonardo Corp. should be in a position to be a major supplier of heat and power throughout the world. The simplicity of the Hot Cat reactor, along with the abundance of the materials used to power it would seem to make it the obvious choice for power producers everywhere.

  • dragonX

    Let’s hope that this E-CAT guessing game will stop by the end of the year. According to Rossi he says that “many publications are on their way, all signed. Many independent tests are going on.”
    So, if they are signed we should know who the third party testers are. Of course, in reverse, if nothing appears by end of year, even against Rossi’s promise, we should ask Rossi where are they and take everything he says with a grain of salt.

    See bellow, answer from Rossi:

    Riccardo T.
    August 12th, 2012 at 3:21 PM

    Dear Dr. Rossi,

    I was 24 when Fleischmann & Pons shocked the world with their discover.
    Since then I was one of the many that hoped for this new science and suffered (yes, “suffer” is the right word) for the offense of the “mainstream” science to the few ones that with poor funds coninue researching in this field.

    You represent for us (I think my feeling is rather common) the fullfill of a dream lasted more than twenty years.

    I just ask a simple question trying not to ask too much. You told that the report you will present in Zurich was prepared by six (or nine??) professors and an engineer.
    You will be able in that event to discover their names or at least the name of the university/company they are working for?

    That would be a wonderful gift for all the “dreamers” like me.

    If so I will drink “alla sua salute” the best bottle of spumante.

    My best wishes for your hard work.

    Thank you

    Riccardo
    #

    Andrea Rossi
    August 13th, 2012 at 7:21 AM

    Dear Riccardo T.
    Many publications are on their way, all signed. Many independent tests are going on.
    Warmest Regards,
    A.R.

  • Tassyfrog

    It would seem that Rossi’s E-cat is going to become the micro processor of the energy sector and the Main frame (Nuclear power plants) will become obsolescent in the coming years (specially after Fukushima).

  • georgehants

    First single-molecule measurement of Van Der Waals interactions at metal-organic interface August 12, 2012 First single-molecule measurement of Van Der Waals interactions at metal-organic interface Enlarge This is a model structure illustrating the bonding of bipyridine to the rough gold surface through direct nitrogen-gold chemical bonding and indirect van der Waals bonding. Credit: Columbia Engineering A team of researchers at Columbia Engineering, led by Applied Physics and Applied Mathematics Associate Professor Latha Venkataraman and in collaboration with Mark Hybertsen from the Center for Functional Nanomaterials at the U.S. Department of Energy’s Brookhaven National Laboratory, has succeeded in performing the first quantitative characterization of van der Waals interactions at metal/organic interfaces at the single-molecule level.
    Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-08-single-molecule-van-der-waals-interactions.html#jCp

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    August 12th, 2012 at 11:39 AM
    Dear Dr Enrico Billi:
    Good comment.
    Our R&D costed ZERO to the taxpayer, since Leonardo Corp self- financed its R&D.
    Our industrialplants are already in operation. The Hot Cat has resolved many problems and now, using gas instead of electricity to drive the Cats, I think we got a big target.
    Thank you for your smart comment,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Kim

    I can imagine every home having a sub soil level
    Molten salt storage vessel aprrox 5 feet in diameter
    and 5 feet high.

    This would store the energy and help modulate
    the system into equilibrium.

    Energy could be extracted as needed.

    Respect
    Kim

  • Lu

    If I recall correctly, Rossi has always stated that the heat is generated by the the gammas emitting into a lead shield. It also seems to me that the lead shield would cover the entire reaction chamber, although perhaps a case can be made that one is not necessary for the innner portion of the chamber. There does not appear to be a lead shield in the picture nor is there a description one by the statements by Cures. The two coaxial cylinders are said to be steel. Lead also melts at 327.5C. Perhaps there is another material being used that has not been mentioned.

    • Peter_Roe

      I suppose its just possible there are three concentric tubes, the outer annulus being filled with lead that is liquid during operation. Lead doesn’t boil until 1,750°C so its physically possible, and might explain the apparent relative coolness of the outer tube. A stretch though.

      • Lu

        Another thought occurred to me after I posted. Like Defkalion, perhaps the inner material containing the nickle and hydrogen also contains lead or some other material that absorbs gammas. I’m not sure if Defkalion has a lead shield with their Hyperion. Whatever the case, lead, or something acting like lead, is necessaary for the heat according to Rossi.

        There is a lot to wonder about with Rossi. I see you are in a skeptical mood today. I think as Rossi elevates his claims it’s good to be remember that NOTHING really has been validated.

        • Peter_Roe

          Tungsten is quite dense and of course has a v. high melting point, so another possibility might be that the outer tube may be a thick-walled piece of this metal.

          You are right that I am feeling more than a little sceptical about Rossi’s flying circus, but that doesn’t really affect my conviction that he has the goods. In fact as I’ve suggested here and there, I think he is probably already well ahead of the hand-made ‘hot cat’ in the picture.

          • GreenWin

            Peter,

            I just went back and re-read the coverage of Oct. 28th 1MW Final Acceptance test. The system ran under the eye of Fioravante and as many as 6 unnamed industry observers. It ran according to all reports for 5 hours with zero input energy producing 470kW thermal.

            Off record comments from industry observers were “we didn’t believe, now… we do.” And the one named industrial observer, Ansaldo Energia, sent a very savvy representative to NI Week (very colorful comments) clearly supporting commercial LENR.

            This appears to be very good evidence the technology is maturing quickly and may in fact become near-term replacement for coal, gas, AND nuke power plants. Ansaldo Energia would be a key player if they have an industrial license from Leonardo – building and servicing commercial power plants IS their business.

            • Peter_Roe

              GreenWin –

              “5 hours with zero input energy producing 470kW thermal”

              And as I understood it at the time was shut down only because people had planes to catch or hotels to go to and get drunk at, or meet their mistresses. That demo is one of the reasons I began to become fairly sure that the COP6 thing was/is a piece of stage management.

              And that was the old system, that as I recall, kicked off at not all that much above 100C. That being so it is also v. difficult to accept that the new system still needs more heat input when it is already at 800-1000C!

              Its these inconsistencies and all the others we know about that I meant by ‘flying circus’, but I imagine that Rossi is just trying to control perceptions as best he can (mostly those of potential enemies I would guess).

              Re. Ansaldo Energia, I think Rossi has chosen well. I read Proia as a tough man who will do whatever is necessary to push things forward – exactly what is needed.

            • GreenWin

              Peter, I think you are confusing Proia the Italian Licencee with a FAR bigger entity:

              Dr. Andrea Aparo, Senior R&D Adviser to Ansaldo Energia SpA CEO Giuseppe Zampini, attended NI Week and spoke at several cold fusion panels.

              Ansaldo Energia is a $1.8 Billion product and service provider to fossil and nuclear power utilities. It is jointly owned by giant Finmeccanica SpA – Italy’s largest defense contractor and a US energy holding company. Ansaldo Energia sent Andrea De Vita, a nuclear physicist to Rossi’s 1MW demo October 28, 2011.

              In July international giant Siemens AG made an offer to purchase (some or all) Ansaldo Energia for $1.3B. The purchase is opposed by the US holding company. Recently the Italian government issued an order to block Ansaldo for sale to a non-Italian entity.

              The very presence of a major power industry Senior Advisor to a CEO at a cold fusion conference – suggests bed fellows. And yes, thoughtful men repair to the hotel bar to meet their mistress before flying off to conquer more lands.

            • Omega Z

              I know your from G.B., But I’m curious of your view.

              Your aware that the U.S. put a indefinite freeze on Nuclear Power Plant license & re-license until a permanent solution has been found for waste storage..

              Do you find it strange that there hasn’t been some type of uproar from the Nuclear Industry as I do.

            • Peter_Roe

              Omega – I’m not sure, there seem to be wheels within wheels everywhere. The freeze may be a way to force the nuclear industry to negotiate, or they may have decided to end that particular stupidity, knowing there is an alternative. Of course their (nuclear industry) PR machine would need a few days to get an agreed story together in any case, so they could all stay on the same page.

              If the govt. of another nuclear country does the same thing soon, then it might look like supertankers beginning to turn. We’re just the mushrooms, as usual.

            • Peter_Roe

              GreenWin – yes you’re right, I’m getting some of my wires crossed. As someone who loses his glasses five times a day, I really shouldn’t try to work from memory!

      • Niemand

        I also thinking about 3 coax tubes. Between 2nd and 3rd tube may be metalhydrides which supply chamber between 1st and 2nd tubes via small pepper holes. This also may be reason of lesser temperature. Inner sides of tubes may be highly polished for mirroring effect. Waves are mirroring in center of this gadget.

        • Peter_Roe

          Good suggestion about the hydrides. Not sure about mirror-polished surfaces – most metals oxidise quickly to flat gray or black at the temperatures concerned.

    • http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/cold-fusion-a-resurrection-and-an-inconvenient-truth-a-view-from-europe/?replytocom=10913#respond praos

      I can’t understand this fixation on lead. Any material stops radiations, lead being only first choice is some applications thanks to its compactness. Iron is only slightly less efficient, and stops for instance 99% of radiations in nuclear plants, with water, concrete and dirt taking care of the rest — with lead nowhere to be seen. So any discussion of the lead as material of any consequence is totally off the point.

      • Peter_Roe

        That’s probably correct. Lead would only really be relevant in this context as a liquid coolant.

      • GreenWin

        Stainless steel is 80% as effective as Pb. And if the bursts at startup are under 250keV – 1/2″ plus heat exchanger (water, oil) and jacketing would eliminate it.

        Remember CRTs produced active X-ray in millions of homes for 50 years with little damage.

        • Peter_Roe

          You mean apart from a shadow of their skeleton on the back of the sofa…

          • GreenWin

            Ha! Little did those braggarts with their 21 inch screens realize they were being immortalized by Fat Man-type shadows!

    • s

      Did Rossi claim to a Florida gov-t agency that the Ecat was non-nuclear? Can someone clarify this? I might be mistaken, but I thought Florida might have found the Ecat to be non-nuclear. I bring this up because: why are people continuing to treat the Ecat like a nuclear device when it is possible a gov’t agency found it not to be that?

      • vbasic

        Maybe to keep them off his back, he was being technical accurate. There are no radioactive materials used in the process and any radiation is contained within the e-cat. Some have suggested that the gamma is immediately reduced to infrared in the metal. (How this reduction happens, I’m not sure). But since Rossi can be sometimes deceptive, he avoided telling them, yes, gamma radiation is produced in the e-cats.

  • Andreiko

    Philips,STIRLING,Rossi?

  • barty

    Maybe the current local time in Seoul is interessting for the ICCF timetable:

    http://24timezones.com/world_directory/current_seoul_time.php

    • Stephen Taylor

      Bookmarked, thanks.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    August 12th, 2012 at 5:35 AM
    Dear Antonella:
    About the tests: the precise dates will be decided in an agreement that we should reach at the beginning of September: obviously we have to accept their needs.
    About Cures: He has been identified as Domenico Fioravanti, it appears that the data from the test made on July 16th comes from him. If it is true, it is due to an excess of enthusiasm for the results, that have been obtained in a test directed by him and by 6 Professors from two Universities. The data had to remain confidential, but he could not help to talk about this event and the remarkable results.
    He is making these tests as a Consultant of a military Customer of us and now probably he will have problems for the leakages, even if I do not think it has been so important: sooner or later the same data will be published. I knew Ing Fioravanti when he was a Student of the Politecnico di Torino ( the Engineering University of Turin, Italy) because he was making a research for Prof. Cesare Boffa (one of the best Engineering Prof. of the time) regarding the new technologies of Electrostatic Precipitators. It was the year 1976 and even if I was 26 years old, I was at the times considered an expert of the sector, so I gave to Domenico Fioravanti much papers I had wrote and he also sisited the electrostatic precipitators I manufactured in my factory of Caponago (Milan, Italy). The we never met again. After 35 years (!!!) I received an email from him in the blog of the Journal, in which he congratulated for the E-Cat, and for me has been a delighting surprise to hear from him again. I contacted him privately and he explained to me that he was a Colonel Engineer, expert of missiles tests. One year later, when with our Military Customer we had to choose a neutral Consultant for the test of the well known plant of 1 MW, I proposed Fioravanti, whom they knew very well, because he wrrked with NATO, with the Pentagon at the highest levels and always for engineering connected with thermodynamic tests. So we all have been glad to choose him.
    His intellectual integrity and his knowledge of the matter has allowed a job that has been considered highly professional from all the parties involved.
    This is it.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Peter_Roe

      Identified where and by whom I wonder. Hi, Andrea!

    • Luca Salvarani

      Probably the “two universities” are Bologna of Italy and Uppsala of Sweden.. It’s always getting better! 2 reliable sorces are better than one!

    • Stephen Taylor

      Very, very interesting and consistent statement.

  • Charles

    Rossi proposes that he will release the results of the test by October 15, 2012.

    That sets me to wondering if he should wait until November 7 to release the results so we Americans will not forget to vote while huddling around the TV awaiting the next LENR bit to appear on the news. A true LENR device, as developed by Rossi will be far bigger news than the election.

    • Nicholas Payne

      Sounds like an October surprise to end all such and there might well be a moment where stock traders all suddenly realise they have about 10 microseconds to figure out who the winners and losers will be.

      • GreenWin

        Finmeccanica SpA (FNC.MI)
        -Milan Ticker: 385640 / ISIN: IT0003856405

  • http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/the-radiations-are-turned-into-heat/ captain

    The wonder of Rossi’s E-Cat, the VERY HOT BLACK BOX, is that it produces no dangerous radiations at all, is using Nickel and Hydrogen and no noble/expensive materials: it’s simple but tremendously efficient.
    It’s simply a WONDER that will change the world!
    Like it or not… ;-)

    P;S;: we’re still in a testing phase, so to know the limits of such a device, of course, Rossi uses temporarily some special materials, metals: otherwise how could he know well its limits?

  • Peter_Roe

    It seems a little odd to me that although the interior tube appears to be at 800C or so (IF the colour reproduction is reasonably good), there is only the slightest heat haze surrounding the exterior. If the outside wall is just below red heat then I would expect to see clearly visible optical distortion around it, but none is apparent. For me this implies a layer of asbestos type insulation immediately inside the outer wall, with the ‘gubbins’ packed inside that. Unfortunately if this is the case then the stated average input of c3.5kW would be more than adequate to keep the inner tube glowing as shown. Without more hard data, the image is dramatic but actually proves little.

    I am also continuing to have a lot of difficulty with the idea that additional heat must be fed into a system already operating at very high temperatures in order to keep it going. If heat is being produced at the rates stated, it would be a very simple matter to reduce the rate of heat loss in order to to raise the temperature, by for instance temporarily closing off the ends of the central tube by means of steel plates mounted on operating rods. This whole idea makes less and less sense as the claimed temperatures involved continue to rise.

    My guess (based on almost nothing) is that Rossi long ago reached full self-sustain mode with the ‘hot cat’ principle (COP=infinity once running), has probably already developed the system some way beyond home-made prototypes, and that the ‘leak’, with AR’s hallmark dramatic but inconclusive ‘evidence’, is intended entirely for perception management purposes.

    • Omega Z

      Rossi has said you can’t heat the E-cat with it’s own heat. Probably it would slowly Idle down & stop. Kind of like charging a battery with an electric generator running off the battery. Uses more then it makes.

      From whats been said in the past, I think it might be possible to use 1 to provide heat to 2 to 4 others. But that’s my opinion.

      • Peter_Roe

        I dunno. Heat is heat, no matter how much AR talks about ‘focusing’ it. If you need more, reduce the rate of loss at the point where you need it. As long at the rate of loss is smaller than the rate of production, the temperature must rise.

        • Paul

          No, electric, or gas heat, can be turned on and off, or throttled very quickly, which appears to be necessary for stability.

          We know that the heat from the e-cat can not be modulated that quickly.

          • Peter_Roe

            No, but rate of cooling can.

        • Robert Mockan

          Heat is NOT JUST heat!

          It is thermal (random) motion of atoms, but temperature is a measure of the energy in the motion of each atom.

          If you have two systems and they are at the same temperature, the temperature between them will stay the same, because heat flows from hot to cold.

          IF we take Rossi at his word, and the E-Cat can not heat itself, this leaves only one conclusion. The TEMPERATURE of the heat going into the catalyst from the heat source, to make the LENR go, has to be at a HIGHER temperature (energy level) than the heat the LENR catalyst is generating, even though the catalyst is generating more quantity of heat (that roughly corresponds to COP), than is being input into it.

          Or, in other words, the active part of the nuclear active sites, requires an energy input into atoms of the site, to make it active, that is at a HIGHER energy level than that of the heat coming from the site. But although LENR catalyst is creating more heat than is going into it to make the E-Cat run, the TEMPERATURE (that is the energy level) of that heat needs to be higher than the phonon leveled heat coming from the nuclear active regions of the catalyst.

          Or, in other words, again, although the actual LENR event itself would be at a much higher energy level, that energy is not coupling efficiently to cause another LENR, because the gross output of the LENR is appearing as heat at a LOWER energy level!

          The important point here is heat at the lower energy level (that is, the temperature), does not couple well to provide LENR activity.

          Thus the precise meaning of “focus” that Rossi has mentioned becomes clear. But this explains how he can use gas heating. There is an energy range distribution of atom motion (heat) at any specific temperature, and he must be using the upper end of that energy distribution to make the E-Cat run.

          So, to fix his “focus” problem he needs to know when to apply energy to each nuclear active site, where each site is, and most important, apply the energy impulse at a higher energy level than that of the average net energy level of the heat that is generated by the site.

          This is an interesting problem.

          • Robert Mockan

            In fact, Rossi seems to be faced with a materials problem. If he could operate the catalyst material at a high enough temperature, it would be able to power itself without external energy. He needs the E-Cat to start chasing its tail. This is where access to certain reaction data could answer a few questions. What is the function that describes the increase in LENR catalyst output vs temperature (energy level of activating atom motion), and at what temperature does the first vertical asymptote appear. THAT is the data point to work towards. Since the nickel in the high temperature E-Cat is already closing in on the melting point, Rossi is going to have to solve this “focus” problem some other way than by raising temperature.

            Get moving Rossi! You are in the best position to find solutions to these kind of problems, and the sooner the better!

          • Jim Johnson

            This is way past my few semesters of science and engineering, but I’m scratching my head thinking, gee, if you have a X1 of energy at temperature T1, is there no way to run something analogous to a compressor and produce X2 (T1)?

      • Stephen

        Assuming the eCat is producing more power than the one which is fed in, I don’t understand how an eCat can drive 2 to 4 additional eCats… while the same heat cannot be used to run the source eCat on its own power. Forget the transients (switch on, off, etc)… I am talking about steady state operation here.

        I might understand the whole thing might become unstable if the heat feedback cannot be regulated (“hopefully” that means a runaway heating, not an idle down&stop… otherwise one would suspect the eCat is not producing any significant new energy at all)… but this is an engineering problem, not something that makes the thing impossible.

        • http://extropolitca.blogspot.com Mirco

          The problem is not use heat to start the reaction, it is stopping the reaction.
          If you use the heat produced by the reaction to keep the reaction going, you risk to lose control of the reaction.
          It is not pretty when you look at a rod at 1.200°C inside and 800°C outside and have no idea how to stop it from generating heat.

          If he is testing the 1.200 °C e-cat it make sense he is doing it in a way he can stop the reaction every time he want, fast and safely. When he harvest enough data about what is happening, how, how much, etc. he will be able to engineering the reactor’s details so it can run in self sustained mode without risks.

        • h_corey

          Yes, I agree. It appears self sustained mode from a thermal energy point of view is an engineering problem Rossi has not tackled. (Or can’t?)
          And also strange is that this test appears to not use “frequencies”. Does he need a probe or antenna that can withstand 1200C+ and not melt, but cannot find one? Odd.

          • Peter_Roe

            It’s possible that the ‘frequencies’ may be those of DC current sent directly through the nickel i.e., the ‘resistances’ are a fabrication and heating is actually by direct current flow.

            If one pair of wires attaches to the outer tube, and the other to the inner, current passing through the moderately high-resistance powder would comprise a very simple and evenly-acting heater (no hot spots). By pulsing the supply it would be possible to continuously create and collapse millions of ‘micro’ magnetic fields within the powder.

            If such EM fields are required to sustain the reaction, that would explain the need for electricity. Unfortunately this idea is not consistent with gas heating, but perhaps some current flow is required even then.

            • Niemand

              This last Rossi’s gadget is looking and behave more and more like HephaHeat

            • Robert Mockan

              Actually your thought is still consistent with gas heating if Rossi is using the upper distribution energy level of the heat input from the gas heating to makle the LENR go. EM fields might focus “activating” energy where it is needed, but to make those fields one needs electric power. Rossi needs some way to increase the “coupling efficiency” if he wants to use higher temperature thermal motion directly to activate LENR in the nuclear active environment. A high enough temperature might do it, but the nickel is already getting close to the melting point.

            • Peter_Roe

              We shouldn’t forget that Rossi says that the periodic heat input is to control the reaction in some way, not to stimulate it. I think is is pretty much just us bloggers who assume that it is needed to kick the reaction alive from time to time. Or maybe that story has changed? I think I’m losing track.

          • Peter_Roe

            If this is anywhere near the truth, it would explain the need for the electrically insulating end seals, rather primitively made of fire-clay, although admittedly this would be a simple way of doing the job anyway.

      • Omega Z

        Sorry Everybody

        I went back & re-read Rossi’s blog.

        On using the E-cats own heat to heat itself.

        I thought I read Impossible, Theoretically.

        It actually Stated. NOT IMpossible, Theoretically.

        Forgot about Rossi Speak.

        NOTE TO SELF: DON’T READ WITH EYES CLOSED….

    • Peter_Roe

      P.S. has anyone else noticed how often Rossi has used the word ‘nuclear’ recently – the one key-word that almost guarantees that LENR devices can never be certified for private use. Paranoid Pete at your service.

      • georgehants

        Allowing that Rossi is not daft, the question becomes Why.
        Does he want to delay the domestic E-Cat?
        Does he want to shoot himself in the foot?
        If no then giving Rossi the credit of knowing what he is doing leads us to try and fathom his reasoning, again.
        All good fun.

        • Peter_Roe

          Following my ‘conspiracy theory’ a bit further, it could be that Rossi knows that resistance to private use of CF devices will be so decisive that he is putting all his efforts into developing MW+ units for corporate/military use (powergen and shipping). Another factor (which Rossi has noted) is the vulnerability of domestic units to industrial espionage.

          However having made various promises to the contrary and also put about the story of the robotic factory he now needs an ‘external’ reason to explain why we won’t get the home heaters. A declaration by some high ranking outside agency (US govt. department, UL or similar) that it would not be possible to license a nuclear technology for this purpose would fit the bill.

          • MK

            leaving all conspirac theories aside, it might be a good idea to understand the reaction better before handing it to everyone. Imagine there is an unknown condition where the reactions runs away extremely and it becomes loud and bright….

            In a well build industrial application: a case for insurance companies….
            In your home…….

            BUT: When the physics are understood and definitely safe units can be assured (as safe as an oil based central heating today), than it is our right to use the technology as we like it.
            Then it might be time to stand for our rights if the technology is hold back.

            • Robert Mockan

              “..it becomes loud and bright…”.
              Insurance companies will not pay on this on.

              Easy to visualize an EMP bomb going off, that sends an electromagnetic pulse out. There is no explosion damage to the city from the pulse itself, but along with every computer circuit getting fried, and all electronic devices smoking, and the ignition systems of cars burning out, and all radio communications going down, every E-Cat in every home in a several mile radius has LENR core overactivation from the EM pulse, and they all explode.

              Could it happen?

              Can Rossi prove it can not?

            • GreenWin

              It should not be hard to prove as we all know the LENR reaction in ALL experiments to date (excepting chemical H2 combustion) demonstrate an extremely SLOW reaction rate.

              Given the SLOW reaction rate, and the ~1400C melt point for the host lattice, there is no way THIS reaction could explode. Also, EMP would destroy control circuits, that by design could trigger a mechanical flame retardant (CO2?)

            • Peter_Roe

              Just earth the metal containments and/or outer casings perhaps? Or perhaps the building regulations will be re-written to include a Faraday cage in the walls of every house!

          • georgehants

            I don’t like going technical as I soon run out of knowledge, but is it possible he is convinced he has discovered an new nuclear reaction that gives no omissions, just heat.
            O.k. I will go back to sleep.

          • http://extropolitca.blogspot.com Mirco

            The MW units are the more bucks for bangs he could do now. So it is logical he will go for industrial applications first. In the process he will learn more about problems and solutions and will use them to develop a safe home e-cat.

            My opinion is the home e-cat will be first introduced in countries with lower standards of security and certifications. Then, as it gain acceptance and the chance of incidents is showed small, it will be adopted in more risk averse jurisdictions.

      • Omega Z

        From different sources it’s looking like

        Not Hot, Not Cold. A new type of Nuclear. A whole new field of research.

  • timycelyn

    Update on the ‘Cures’ leak, a more comprehensive reply from Rossi including more detail on validators, and a target date:

    Dear Luca Salvarani:
    All this mess around Cures is much ado for nothing. Yes, somebody has leaked information regarding the 16 July test, made by 9 Professors and 1 Army Engineer. The names of the validators and the text of the test had to remain confidential until the end of the validation process, which will be within October 15th. Somebody, overwhelmed by enthusiasm, leaked. I want not to know who he is and the issue is not important to me, what is important is that now we have the capacity to heat water with a wall over 1000 Celsius (the reactor is operating every day and confirms all his performance and safety)-
    I am sorry for Cures, who will have some troubles, but it is not my problem at this point.
    Answers:
    The COP will not change; the Hot Cat is limited to industrial applications; a full and complete report will be published by the University that will complete the validation.
    Warmest Regards,
    Andrea

    • Stephen Taylor

      Thank you timycelyn, thank you Luca, thank you Andrea Rossi. October is a nice month for waiting.

  • Renzo

    OT for Luca Salvarani:
    complimenti per le risposte date a Francesco sul forum di Cobraf, tutto da standing ovation. A quell’utente bisognerebbe regalare qualche libro pubblicato da Usemlab o dal Mises :)

    • Luca Salvarani

      X Renzo

      Anche tu segui usemlab? Grandissimo! e pensare che ti ho preso per uno che ha dato non so quante volte la maturità e si è (forse?) laureato in Albania… -) Qualche settimana fa qui su e-catworld un italiano che lavora in Germania ha avuto il coraggio di dire che è tutta colpa della Germania…allucinante! (rispondevo ad un utente tedesco che giustamente si augurava che con l’e-cat potessimo camminare con le nostre gambe senza scaricare i nostri debiti passati presenti e futuri su di loro)… sono rimasto senza parole!

      • http://extropolitca.blogspot.com Mirco

        OK, siamo in tre a seguire USemlab.

      • Renzo

        Sì mi ricordo ma non avevo seguito la discussione. Seguo questi argomenti in gran parte grazie a facebook dove ci sono alcuni gruppi molto attivi. Non ricordo il tuo nome quindi presumo che non sei iscritto lì. Nel caso te la fossi persa ho digitalizzato l’unica edizione italiana di Human Action
        http://tinyurl.com/cyn4j77
        Diffondi pure! :)

      • Francesco CH

        Queste sono le solite semplificazioni di chi vuole sviare gli argomenti.

        Io ho scritto che la Germania ha VIOLATO i trattati attuando una CONCORRENZA SLEALE, che è vietata dai trattati lo ribadisco, attraverso un DUMPING SALARIALE.

        In Germania cioè le buste paga sono state IN MEDIA ridotte del 20% mentre le ore lavorate sono AUMENTATE, e questo per portare l’Italia KO.

        Nessun tedesco era presente alla discussione per quanto mi ricordi io. Io invece ho esortato te a chiedere a qualche utente tedesco qui su E-Cat World, ad esempio, se era vero o non vero ciò che ho scritto e se era vero che la HARTZ IV ha ridotto considerevolmente i diritti e la busta paga media del lavoratore tedesco.

        Voi persistete a non comprendere la trappola mortale che è l’euro, un sistema che porta alla deflazione ETERNA.

        Quindi sì: la colpa è della Germania rea di concorrenza sleale, ma è anche colpa dell’Italia e degli altri Stati membri, che invece di andare al tavolo del Consiglio Europeo e richiedendo con forza di porre la Germania sotto procedura di infrazione per avere violato i trattati, nulla hanno detto.

        ps
        E chi vuole campare scaricando i debiti passati presenti e futuri sui tedeschi?

        Loro si tengano la loro moneta e noi torniamo alla nostra sovranità monetaria, così loro si stampano la loro moneta, noi ci stampiamo la nostra moneta, e nessuno deve chiedere denaro a qualcun altro.

        Non mi pare una cosa così difficile da capire!

        • Luca Salvarani

          X Francesco CH

          Mi faccia capire 3 cose, tanto per curiosità:

          1) E’ stata forse la Germania a costringerci ad entrare nell’euro puntandoci una pistola alla tempia o l’abbiamo fatto noi di nostra spontanea volontà perchè pagavamo il 13% sui BTP e e in 10 anni anzichè risanare e riformare abbiamo aumentato ancora di più spesa, ladrocinio e casta?

          2) E’ colpa della Germania se in Italia abbiamo tasse in media al 70% e servizi da terzo mondo, se le cause durano anni o decenni e se ti dice bene che non scatta la prescrizione, se una burocrazia assurda rende impossibile fare qualsiasi cosa, se negli ultimi anni non abbiamo ricevuto nessun investimento estero netto, se siamo ultimi tra le nazioni sviluppate nei test Pisa e nella crallifica dell’ease of doing business, se i tempi d’attesa per interventi sanitari sono di mesi o addirittura anni, se abbiamo un numero di statali spropositato illicenziabile (anche quando rubano o delinquono…) che se non gli aumentano ogni anno lo stipendio fa scioperi a raffica e fa pure la vittima, se abbiamo una casta di politicanti che ci costa un occhio della teste che si sono autonominati, se abbiamo condannati in parlamento, se la terza città d’Italia è da anni sommersa da rifiuti per tutte le strade…. potrei andare avanti per ore…

          Damandone da un milione di dollari: tutto questo è in qualche modo colpa della Germania? Tutto questo che COSA DIAVOLO CENTRA con la sovranità monetaria porca di quella miseria!!!!!??? Ma non ti rendi conto dell’assurdità di quello che stai dicendo? Dire che l’euro o l’UE sono state costruite male ci può anche stare (i famosi liberisti lo dicevano da 20 anni ridicolizzati dai più… oggi quelli che prima ridevano vogliono insegnarci loro.. incredibile!) ma da questo alle tue conclusioni c’è un abisso: pensiamo alla nostra trave prima di ridicolizzare la pagliuzza altrui please, soprattutto se poi PRETENDIAMO che paghino i nostri debiti e ci aiutino (o meglio che aiutino lo stato, noi cittadini no di sicuro!). Se non capisci queste cose qui a Mantova noi usiamo dire “RICIAPAT”!

          3) 6 lo stesso Francesco del blog Cobraf?

    • Francesco CH

      Usemlab e Mises?

      Ve li spiego io.

    • Francesco CH
  • Martin

    Amazing, eats its own radiation. I do like rossi’s whole approach, keep pushing Rossi (thumbs up)

  • freethinker

    As far as i understood the active material, and hence region of reactions, is placed in the volume define by two cylinders, one then bigger than the other. The glowing patch seen in the image would hence be outside the core of the reactor and be the the “focal point” for the energy coming from thermalized gammas. Hence the reactor in Cures leaked picture is not opened any more than any other box shape reactor we’ve seen before.

    Or am I wrong :-)

    • freethinker

      Well, it may sit in a box, but also the old ones has been tubular as well but apparently not of same design.

  • Alexvs

    I have reckoned more than 2 hours the necessary time to read and respond the huge amount of e-mails sent to Mr. Rossi. Please, be civil and patient. The time substracted from Mr. Rossi’s 27/4 work is essential for the marketing of so many beneficial products as E-Cat boiler, E-Cat at 600ºC, E-Cat at 1200ºC, E-Cat autoheated, E-Cat direct electricity converter and other E-Cat modalities which are being thought for relieving mankind’s suffering.

  • sapain

    hot cat. looks like a modified induction heater with a graphite body, heating a material and running gas over or through it.
    what`s rossi doing, running cooled gas through the conduction lines instead of water, good way to keep the lines cool and increase the gas temp and pressure before it`s injected on the hot body. easy way to get 1200c.

  • s

    Has anyone done a calculation of COP at the higher temperature based on data from the “leaked” document?

    • Niemand

      Yes ano No. Cures published in 3,7 kW or so, and 13,something kW Out.
      However it is impossible to calculate exact CoP, because we don’t know what periods of total selfsustain are here applied.
      Last “Rossi or Prometheon says” are about 50% of time as selfsustain without input.
      So only assumption is CoP around 6 to 7.

      • Robert Mockan

        Another problem is the calorimetry is industrial level not lab grade, and we have no way to know what the accuracy is without seeing charts with error bars on them. They are probably calculating thermal power output using equation P=AkT^4, where A is the outer case area of their reactor, k is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant of proportionality, and T is absolute temperature measured with their radiation pyrometer, probably summed with conduction loss to the atmosphere for better accuracy. Undoubtedly Rossi knows to calibrate his reactor using electric heating, and chart the measured temperature vs electric power input, so that when he runs the reactor with the LENR active he can determine LENR thermal power by checking the calibration chart data points.
        The difference in electric heating or gas heating, without and with LENR to maintain some specific temperature, tells him what part of the total power being generated comes from LENR. Critics with a science background will tell him he should use absolute energy measurements for better accuracy, and the skeptics will pounce on him because of the method he is using, but his method accuracy is adequate if done carefully, and if he includes error data in his calculations. He knows this. He also knows COP is a variable many realize is important. So the game is back in the Rossi court. Will he, or will he not, simply reveal the information, or do we all have to keep guessing?

        • Stephen Taylor

          Robert,
          Using P=AkT^4 I get 590 Watts from the outer surface area and 1700 Watts from the inner surface area.
          I used (estimate)length of 36 cm and diameters of 12 cm outer and 4 cm inner.
          I used Cures data where he said 800 degrees C outer and 1200 degrees C inner.
          I coverted degrees C to absolute (527 outer) and (927 inner).
          Area equals (.1356 meters squared)outer and (.0452 meters squared)inner.
          I used 5.27^-8Watts per square meter(Temp^4)
          So I have:
          Power(outer)=(.1356)(5.67^-8 Watts)(7.7^10)=590 Watts
          Power(inner)=(.0452)(5.67^-8 Watts)(6.7^11)=1700 Watts
          Total Power= 2290 Watts ?????
          Something is wrong with my calculations or my understanding or both.

          • Robert Mockan

            I see nothing wrong with your calculations.
            The dimension estimate seems reasonable.

            I can suggest different reasons for the large difference between the stated power and the calculated power.

            1. The thermal radiation from the reactor ends surface areas has not been included (but it would not be a large increase in any case).
            2. Thermal conduction losses directly to air may be quite high at these temperatures. I mentioned summing that value with the calculated power using the Stefan Power Law, but since we do not know what the value is we can only guess how much power is leaving the system that way.
            3. The power numbers we were given from Cures may be in error (possible since this was not an official reporting of data, and accuracy might be lacking in the “leak” data).

            4. Of course there is always the possibility we all question- that they do not have a clue how to measure thermal power. Let us hope that is NOT the answer.

            The reason people make calibration charts is to account for all the variables. Let us hope they are making use of calibration charts.

            • Robert Mockan

              Correction: temperature 927 K to the 4th power is 7.38^11, not 6.7^11, but that only changes the inner wall calculated power output from 1700 watts to 1891 watts.

          • Robert Mockan

            I just read the comments in the new post that the temperature conversion was in error. That it should have been 800+273=1073 K, and 1200+273=1473 K.

            Thank heavens for a lot of smart people making comments This makes my day. That means the calculated power out comes to a bit over 13,000 watts. When taking into account surface emissivity being less than 1, and the inner diameter configuration being not ideal for these kind of calculations, the corrected temperature seems to give good results. To all interested in this topic best to go to the new post by Stephen Taylor on August 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm.

      • s

        You are making a lot of assumptions. They did not say what the duty cycle was. They also did not say a lot about self sustain.

  • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort
    • gerard2012

      posterity comes to Martin Fleischmann, co-discoverer of the Cold Fusion with Stanley Pons.
      the ideas are flying with the breath of human progress.

      • clovis

        salute