Defkalion GT Presents Data, Business Plans at NI Week

Defkalion Green Technologies sent a delegation to Austin for NI Week, and on Wednesday made a presentation about their technology and their upcoming business plans. DGT confirmed that they will be moving their operations to Vancouver, Canada, and their offices will be open for business starting in September.

DGT presentation included a slide show which described the technical aspects of their reaction. They explain that the reaction taking place in DGT’s Hyperions begins with an initial heating event, which excites the nickel powder, inside a hydrogen filled chamber. Then, short controlled discharges are applied by a spark plug-like apparatus which transforms the hydrogen into Rydberg State Hydrogen (RSH) atoms which react with the nickel lattice. When the hydrogen electrons are in the vicinity of the proton and nickel atom for a short moment, a transmutation effect is created, releasing gamma rays and heat production.

Defkalion reports that their reactors are manually fired around 10 times per hour to create the reactions, and that the COP ratio (energy in/energy out) ranges from 1:8 – 1:22, with maximum temperatures of 849 C. The maximum heat energy produced “per reaction cycle” is 92Wh.

One of the slides shows a before/after table of elements found in the reactor, indicating that various elements have undergone transmutation during the reaction process.

As far as commercialization of their technology goes, DGT says that they will be working towards obtaining industrial certifications and building industrial prototypes in the next months, and then in the next year setting up production lines and a support network. It’s possible that moving operations to Canada will have the effect of slowing progress, since they will have to deal with new sets of regulations to deal with, in addition to setting up new labs, offices and finding production facilities.

Videos of the DGT presentation can be seen below.

1. Alex Xanthoulis in LENR panel discussion.

2. The technical presentation (3 parts)


  • Gene Quong

    Vancouver is becoming a leader in both computing and alternative energy with the following companies located in Burnaby (a suburb of Vancouver).

    Ballard Power a leader in fuel cells.
    General Fusion a leader in hot fusion research.
    D-Wave which has sold quantum computers to US companies which are the fastest supercomputers in the world.

    We are also home to TSE Venture exchange which is a world leader in financing mining companies which finance their operations using Initial Public Offerings and private placements.

  • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    I am thrilled they are moving to my area.

    The tone again changes a bit hopefully the industrial prototype
    is the 40 KW model. The time line envelope slides forward.

    Still I hope for the best this is an exciting surprise and cause
    for optimism.

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Can anyone think of where the iron might be coming from? It can’t be the following reaction because John Hadjichristos said that Ni(61) doesn’t undergo a LENR.
    H(1) + Ni(61) > Co(58) + He(4) 0.489 MeV
    Co(58) > Fe(58) + e+(positron)

    • Alan DeAngelis

      P.S.
      It just came to me.
      H(1) + Ni(62) > Co(59) + He(4) 0345. MeV
      H(1) + Co(59) > Fe(56) + He(4) 3.2 MeV

      • Alan DeAngelis

        And maybe:
        H(1) + Ni(64) > Co(61) + He(4) 0.663 MeV
        H(1) + Co(61) > Fe(58) + He(4) 4.1 MeV

  • Robert

    The videos are useless but the reading is much better. Next up ICCF-17. Bring it on can’t wait hope it keeps the momentum up:)

    • LCD

      The videos with the slides are pretty useful though.

      Rydberg State Hydrogen, hmmmm.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Defkalion Green Technologies moving to Vancouver with their three shells and small ball. What a shell game! Rossi is the real deal.

    • LCD

      At least I know who did third party tests for Defkalion. I don’t know anything about Rossi.
      Do you?
      And please don’t list Cures as your source.

  • Gregory Lee

    Then there’s a way to increase COP to 1:100 or more. Right now.

    Thane heinz’s “Regenerative acceleration” device that has pratically operates on Zero Point Energy technology. Although the inventor is loath to say it aloud but it’s very much so alluded to .

    This device has been refused by all major powers be at major automobiles, energy, manufacturing compnaies world around for fear of reprisal from evne bigger and more powerful money barons .

    Thane Heinz’s latest technology CAN and it DOES produce near almost infinite COP by itself too if you could fit more coils into the system.

    At present time it does require small electrical energy to start it and even smaller energy to keep it’s rotor rotation. At present time the older generation test model has been verified to run at 200% times the output at 40% less input. Needless to say more recent the latest model is even more impressive but it is kept under wrap.

    Theoretically regenerative technology can be self sustained or maintained very close to infinitesium COP due to extremely low power requirement after it goes into generating mode. At one point we should be able to get complete self sustain mode, which is what power companies are so fearful about. Can you imagine what could be achieved if you could combine the two technologies ?

    • Kim

      The world is full of moral retards.

      and people just keep on as usual.

      nothing to see here.

      Its amoral behavior.

      Morality needs to be the first agenda

      Its what this all about.

      We need to start teaching our children morality
      Then every good thing will follow

      Its a no brainer

      Respect
      Kim

  • Chris

    “The maximum heat energy produced is 92Wh.”

    I don’t get it, perhaps I need to see the videos. Are you sure you got it right? I could understand them giving a maximum thermal power, but not a maximum energy and that small, it’s a light bulb burning for an hour.

    • admin

      Thanks,Chris, I should have been clearer. The Heat production numbers refer to amount of heat produced “per reaction cycle.”

      Electric energy consumed pertriggered reaction cycle: Minimum — <1Wh , Maximum — 2Wh
      Heat energy produced per reaction cycle: Minimum — 16Wh, Maximum — 92Wh

      • artefact

        Minimum is at ~180C and Maximum at 849C core temperature

        • artefact

          I might be wrong with that. The think the table in the PDF is leaves it open at what time the max. COP is reached…

      • Pachu

        16/2 = 8 minimun COP but

        92/2 = 46 looks like more than 22…

        • Kim

          I need to know:

          How much energy in.

          How much energy out.

          That is It!

          Respect
          Kim

  • Kim

    Every one likes to climb Mt. Everest.

    Now we have a new one. LENR.

    No definite theory.

    No definite Product.

    Now we have 2 Mount Everest.

    The economy is dying or at status.

    Tell big oil to suck it up and learn to be
    creative and forward progressive, instead of
    sucking on teats.

    Respect
    Kim

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Peter Gluck posted this answer to his previous open letter by Prof. Sunwon Park and Dr. Frank Gordon, the leader-organizers of ICCF-17:

    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/08/answer-to-my-open-letter-yo-iccf-17.html

    • daniel maris

      Looks like it should be at least as interesting as the NI conference! :)

  • Tyuratam

    I think that we should start a petition in “change.org” to request the MIT for a public in depth inquiry of the facts surrounding the investigation into the work of Drs. Fleischmann and Pons made by that institution in 1989 that led to discrediting those scientists and the virtual paralysis of all funding directed to study the effect called cold fusion or LENR.

    The undeserved and unwarranted debunking by MIT has mean a huge delay in the introduction of this source of clean and inexhaustible energy, thus contributing to perpetuate the enormous unnecessary suffering of large segments of the global population without access to the basic means of survival due the lack of access to cheap energy, whom otherwise would enjoy at this time of a much better quality of life.

    Also, this delay in the adoption of the LENR technology has also contributed to the further deterioration of the environment of the Earth.

    This debunking helped to stigmatize an area of ​​scientific research extremely important for the technological development of mankind.

    Finally, a great injustice was made with Doctors Fleischmann and Pons, destroying their careers, although they were right as it is by now clearly demonstrated.

    The MIT should publicly acknowledge their mistakes, and punish those guilty of malpractice if necessary, in order to maintain credibility and for the sake of justice and the renewal of science.

    It would be the best contribution we could make to the memory of Dr. Fleischmann, and would contribute to the drastic increase in the public awareness of this technology.

    I Would make the request in person at Change.org, but:

    - I’m not a citizen of the United States, and i’m only able to make petitions in my country (Spain)
    - My English is not as good as they should be.

    What do you think about this idea?

    Link: http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/mitcfreport.pdf

    • Peter_Roe

      There are probably many worms in the woodwork that would not want too much light to fall in this area. I would happily sign such a petition, but I wouldn’t hold out much hope of anything constructive happening as a result.

    • Kim

      Might as well have an investigation into
      the moral life of every man and woman on
      this planet for the last 10 years.

      Money has replaced morality.
      Fear has replaced morality.
      Control has replaced morality.

      We all need to start doing what is proper
      according to our higher creator and
      put money as a terciary consideration.

      We ALL know what the problem is.

      Respect
      Kim

    • Andrew Macleod

      Great idea! I fear any kind of investigation would end up being a dead end… Do you recall the president (GW Bush sr) appointed the labs/scientists to study their claims….. I don’t believe MIT is solely to blame.

    • GreenWin

      There will be an investigation of past actions particularly by those in the Plasma Physics lab – where cold fusion results were doctored (evidence from Dr. Mallove.) More immediately will be an investigation into action by a “famous MIT scientist” who subverted Dr. Hagelstein’s third party financing. This may begin with the Massachusetts Attorney General as a possible violation of the US RICO Act.

      Other cold fusion scientists have lost funding due to corrupt or illegal influence against funders and universities. This behavior WILL be brought to an end. Those responsible will have to answer for their actions – like any grown up.

  • Pachu

    Any Brillouin update on NIWeek ?

  • georgehants

    Will say, I am in awe at the knowledge and insight of many contributors to the page.
    No names, no red faces, but a joy to read how all science should be conducted in an atmosphere of anticipation, searching and enjoyment.
    Difference views are the gold of progress if freely followed to a common goal, advancement, knowledge, no politics, no debunking, no abuse, just an open, unbiased desire to find and understand a little of the True reality.

    • andre blum

      +1

  • georgehants

    Updates from ICCF-17
    August 10, 2012 / Ruby Carat / 0 comment(s)
    Cold Fusion Now is attending the 17th International Conference on Cold Fusion ICCF-17 in Daejeon, Korea in the form of science fiction author and CFN contributor Arthur Robey traveling from Australia, and patent lawyer and author David French, who trekked (…)
    http://coldfusionnow.org/

  • georgehants

    From E-Cat Report
    Nuclear Licensing To Be Suspended
    In a surprising move the other day, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission suspended the issue of any new licenses to build nuclear reactors. This is in response to several petitions filed by a variety of people and organizations. The NRC says that no new licenses will be issued until the problem of disposal of nuclear waste has been solved. This means, in common sense verbiage, never.
    This is a big move by the NRC. There are something like 14 nuclear power plants still in operation in the U.S. These will continue to be maintained, but no new nuclear power plants will be built until the problem is solved.
    http://ecatreport.com/new-energy-news/nuclear-licensing-to-be-suspended

    • Omega Z

      George

      The pretense is over the Waste storage??? All of a sudden… This is unusual for an election period.

      Maybe they are aware. We Hope…

      • Peter_Roe

        It does rather look like finding justification for a decision already taken on other grounds. The problem of waste treatment and disposal has been glaringly obvious since the beginning of the civil nuclear program, and governments have been happy to kick it down the road until now. The way that most contractors involved (such as Westinghouse) have hived off their nuclear operations as self-contained subsidiaries looks horribly like preparation for leaving governments with that particular baby, as the subsidiaries declare bankruptcy when profits nosedive.

        Interestingly there are now plenty of indications that LENR may provide some answers to this problem too (see the recent Storms video, and the ‘GeNiE’ reactor – http://www.globalenergycorporation.net/Tech.aspx).

        Next, the UK? (only when Cameron has been safely shuffled off to a comfy life of trough-slopping at the EU I suspect).

        • georgehants

          I can’t believe you don’t want the Chinese to come and build us a load more nuclear power plants.
          Is it Cameron or his scientific advisers.
          —-
          China in talks to build UK nuclear power plants
          British officials talking to Chinese about plan that could see up to five reactors being built at cost of £35bn, sources say
          http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/20/china-uk-nuclear-power-plants

      • GreenWin

        Omega, there clearly IS a HUGE waste issue that pols have not wanted to deal with. The cleanup at the Hanford WA nuclear facility is slated by DOE to take another 25 years at a cost of $125 Billion tax dollars.

        But fuel rod waste is a potential revenue stream for big LENR science. Mitsubishi in particular has developed LENR to mitigate (reduce half life) of radioactive waste from nuke plants. If former nuke builders follow suit, it could accelerate development of LENR for fuel rod disposal.

    • Lu

      I noticed this as well. Don’t forget elections are coming up in November in the US and this may just be political posturing.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    August 10th, 2012 at 2:42 AM
    Dear Larry Jameson:
    Our manufacturing concerns will evolve with the product. The high temperature module is not idle, is ready for production. The economical trend of the products will be similar to the other consolidated technologies and, of course, will be affected by economy scale. Thank you for your attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Simon Derricutt

    On the presentation slides, the figures on the screenshots are just readable. There’s quite a lot of information not previously released just on those screenshots.

    This is a lab test of the system. Pressing a button every 6 minutes to fire the glow and re-start the reaction would be something that will later be automated to keep the output level at the desired amount. Note that in the screenshots it is every 15 minutes. Between the glows the system should run without power input, but the output decays. This could be regarded as “self-sustain” modes between goosings, but in my mind this is a lot safer than the full self-sustain modes – if you don’t hit it with a glow it stops of its own accord rather than possibly go into meltdown if you don’t control it.

    So you give it a bit of corona glow and it will give you between 8 and 22 times the power you’ve used in producing the corona. That should be good enough to loop it even using a 30% efficiency generation system, and thus get effectively COP infinite as with a normal power-station.

    I don’t expect this laboratory system to come to market-ready for at least 18 months, maybe longer, so they’re going to miss the targets they’ve set. On the other hand, it looks like it’s now at a stage where they may be able to have 3rd party confirmations and publicise the results, unlike before where it wasn’t ready for that. On the gripping hand NI do seem to be standing behind the results, so they are probably, this time, believable.

    • Peter_Roe

      They may just be going for proof that they have a viable system, without necessarily revealing where they are with development right now.

    • artefact

      They say the COP is 8 at 180C and 22 at 849C

  • alexvs

    All proponents at ICCF-17 can say now that they are working closely to National InstrumentsI. Nothing new. Mr. Rossi claimed the same months ago.

  • artefact

    Next week:

    “A presentation of DGT’s technologies and progress, supported also by a scientific paper, are scheduled to be presented by DGT’s Hyperion product manager Menelaos Koulouris during the ICCF-17 in Korea”

  • Renzo

    On the swedish e-cat forum someone wrote to Siemens asking for a confirmation of their collaboration with Rossi:

    “I asked Siemens Information Manager in Sweden (Mary Baldin) if she could confirm or deny cooperation with Rossi, received this reply:

    Hello,
    I have not heard about this so I can neither deny or confirm the possibility of cooperation with Siemens. We are a big company so I have no detailed knowledge of each unit.

    Please,
    Maria”

  • Brad Arnold

    From what I understand of the LENR reaction, Defkalion doesn’t really have a good handle on it. The beta-decay that produces the heat (and apparently a slight bit of low energy gamma rays) occurs to both the hydrogen and nickel atoms (plus any other atom that absorbs a low-energy neutron within the reactor). The heat is actually transmutation occurring.

    Also, there is a good chance that Rossi’s patient that was approved in Italy precludes Defkalion from obtaining patient protection for their LENR process, so it isn’t just trivial that Defkalion might have borrowed from Rossi the way Rossi borrowed from others.

    Finally, the goal ought to be (for first generation LENR) the production of industrial boilers used to upgrade coal and natural gas fired boilers in existing power plants. If Defkalion is trying for the domestic market, or to engineer new power plants, then they will have a larger than predicted lag time while certification is dragged out.

    • Supervisor

      Dear “Patient” Brad,

      ALL Power Plant companies will go bankrupt within 4 to 8 years after launching these LENR tech. Their analysts are capable calculate this, so no one Power Plant company will buy these LENR tech. i.e.: even with these new tech Power Plant companies will be bankrupt.

      • Omega Z

        @ Supervisor

        We’re going to have LENR Grid Power Plants for at least 30 to 40 more years. I would have no problem Investing in a new LENR Power plant & make a good return on my investment to boot.

        The reason is simple. They can do it Cheaper then we can do it ourselves. Everyone including (myself, But to a lesser extent) tend to overlook way to many details.

        Generating Turbines for them will be much cheaper per Kwh because of scale & work in the 50% to 60% range. A small home generator will probably be 3 to 4 times more per Kwh & work at 20% to 30%.

        You have to allow for up to 25Kwh capacity wasting most of it most of the time. They only need to look at 10Kwh per customer & use nearly all of it at any given time.

        By placing their plants closer to the populace, they drastically cut their Grid structure costs.

        Several other technologies need to be developed or drastically improved before the average consumer can cut the wire. It will take several decades before it becomes cost effective.

        However, in the short term with some improvements, most people will be able to heat their homes with LENR. Several years down the road will likely include cooling.

        These capabilities will reduce your utility usage by around 50%. And the Electricity that you still use will probably be somewhere around 6 cents per KWH including Fed/State/&Local taxes.

        Grid power- 6 cents per KWH when you use it. A 10Kw E-cat will cost you a minimum of 10 cents per hour & runs 24/7 whether your using it or dumping the heat into a heat sink.

        I fully expect in time advances will change all this, but pretty much 30 to 40 years before that happens.

        • Karl

          I’m not sure you are right.

          • Omega Z

            It’s in the numbers which is why we tend to overlook it.

            Example: 10Kw E-cat with 25% conversion gives 2500 watts electric. 1600 goes to run the E-cat. Leaves 1400 watts. Standard blow dryer uses 1200 watts. Leaves 200 watts.

            The Average home can use as much as 25,000 watts at any given time. It all depends on what is on.

            What confuses people is when individuals state that the average home uses 1500Kwh a month. That’s an average. Most of this energy is used in short periods say a few hours per day. It isn’t averaged.

            So technically a 10Kw E-cat could supply little over 1/3rd of a homes power. At 25% conversion you would get about 1800Kwh per month. About 1150 would be used to power the E-cat. 650 used for home. 850 still needed. This would require a large battery array to accomplish this.

            Figure $1K for the E-cat, $30K for a generator, $10K for Batteries, $10K for installations all to eliminate 1/3rd of your Electric bill. Probably a total rebuild of the Generator every 5 years. 6 month refill fees.

            It’s all Economics. That’s not to say someone wont make another breakthrough sometime down the road & change all this, but at present it’s not economical at an individual level.

            Even when/if things change it may not be enough. Like I indicated, your utilities will already have been reduced by well over 50% to 75%. People wont switch to totally off grid unless it saves them a reasonable amount of money & convenience also figures in.

            Also the numbers I give could change. A system that could use the waste heat to offset home heating/hot water Along with a heat absorption cooling system could drastically change these numbers. But it still depends on what this system would cost. And the inconveniences that come with that system.(Maintenance)

            The upside is cheaper energy even if it’s still on the grid. Presently everyone is looking at major increase in Electric costs. Possible 200 to 400 percent over the next decade or so depending on where you live. Just received notice mine is going up at least 20% soon.
            All products we purchase will be cheaper. These prices will other wise go up as energy prices rise.

            So even thou we may still be on the grid for several decades, it will be better then where we’re headed without LENR power.

        • Supervisor

          Dear Omega,

          I executed a few hundreds calculations over this dilemma during last 5 years and all I may told is You are wrong.

          You must calculated VAT, personal overheads, profits for energy producer plus all this same for transmission grid/ distributor. At end, You realised this obsolete style is not competitive.

          And even one detail: This is possible that 1-2 years after LENR devices starts on markets, here comes Steorn after 7 years delays and steamrolling all these complicated hydrogen pressurized gadgets.

          I repeat my conclusion: ALL powerplants will bankrupt 4 to 8 years after real start of commercialization of LENR. With one exception: PowerPlant companies who have special clause (annex) with banksters about immediate or 30 days maturity of their 10 years bonds in case of lowered rating, such PowerPlant companies will bankrupt maybe even in 3 years timeframe.

          • daniel maris

            I’m in between the two of you. I think the home E Cat is unlikely to start a revolution. But with central generating industrial LENR energy units ar that could be located much closer to the users of power of off grid for big factories (e.g. aluminium smelters) I think the effects could be revolutionary – especially in countries like the UK where there is no generating monopoly per se.

            • Supervisor

              Mybe so 2 years from now and Advanced Home E-Cats with direct thermal to electricity conversion and better CoP and not 400% overpriced (as today’s plans of Doctor Ing tinker).

              When today people go buy fridge, they doing calculations: when I bought ice from ice makoing manufacture in 1927 year, these was 3 cents cheaper then today cooling foods in my own fridge ???
              No.

        • Lu

          I agree with your analysis, however, never underestimate the power of $$$. It can work both ways, you know. I give it 10 years with a very rapid adoption. Especially if Obama gets re-elected….

        • Lu

          I agree with your analysis, however, never underestimate the power of $$$. It can work both ways, you know. I give it 10 years with a very rapid adoption. It may also depend on the coming elections…

    • GreenWin

      Brad, consider a typical power station using a GE STAG combined cycle turbine for 100MW output. At the moment only Rossi reports anything above 10kW of thermal energy continuous. Even his 1MW steam heater consumes an entire freight container to produce 1MW thermal. Imagine 100 of the containers… it will be a while before industrial units can get even close to current power stations. And why do it at all?? The idea of centralized power is D E A D. Unnecessary. Impractical. Environmentally unsound.

      However a small, 10kW CHP unit for hot water and up to 5kW electric IS practical at the technology level right now. The only thing holding it back is lack of will. But with Obama’s Admin getting involved, a fast track for green jobs building home units in the millions is far more plausible. And talk about a VOTE MAGNET… Democrats will cut your electric bill by 80-90 percent??? Hear Xanthoulis today?? LESS than half of one CENT/kWh. Better than gold.

      • Peter_Roe

        If existing centralised energy systems can generate power at next to nothing in terms of ongoing cost, then they could afford to cut consumer’s bills by 50% or so (for the benefit of politicians who would claim the kudos) and still show enormous profits. These profits in turn would generate taxes for said gov’ts to replace lost gas generation revenues, especially as by Parkinson’s laws, usage would quickly rise until the cost equaled the former cost of gas and gas-generated energy.

        Why would anyone with power want to upset such a cosy applecart? The answer is they won’t – CF will shortly join nuclear fission technology as a monopoly, inaccessible to the oiks behind a legislative wall.

      • GreenWin

        The guv and utils may WANT to keep the old grid in business and likely will for light and heavy industrial use. Residential distributed energy is already a part of most western government’s “climate change” strategy. This opens the door to small form factor CHP units like the one I have linked several times from Siemens AG Building Materials.

        I am not so sure the LENR tech can be scaled to replace huge gas and steam turbines quickly and economically. As that is developed, moving a portion of power base load off to distributed residential energy makes good engineering sense. And once the climate greenies get behind LENR to obviate long distance power lines, hydro dams, fossil exploration and drilling etc. – more political pressure will arrive from voters.

        Will guv have to let go the “smart” grid control mechanism? Yes. In order to avoid civil unrest and taxpayer revolt the grid will be downsized.

  • Greg Goble

    Why do cold fusion engineers move operations from Europe to the Americas?
    Does Defkalion intend to keep their commitment to the Greek people… something about basing their operations in Greece… a boon to their economy… jobs in an economic desert… enabling a return to Greek currency… economic independence, etc. etc. etc.

    If not… I’m sorely disappointed.

    Ain’t just show biz… When ya’ know your biz…
    People keep sayin’… Keep up the good work!

    Anticipatin’ a generation… Powerin’ brand new nations…
    Everyone sayin’… Keep up the good work!
    gbgoble’2012

    Thanks

    • David

      The real question is: why they are still using Rossi’s technology?

      • Peter_Roe

        Possibly its a case of ‘why do all car makers use the same type of engines?’.

  • GreenWin

    Thank you Hank. I have just re-read DGT Xanthoulis’ statement to NyTeknik. He essentially admits to stealing Rossi’s technology without his knowledge. This is so damaging legally that unless DGT has an agreement of some sort with Rossi – they will never make it to market. Which is why it is interesting that both Dave Nagel and Mike Melich (US Navy) were apparently verifying DGT numbers in Xanthi. Dr. Melich’s continued presence on the Rossi Board of Advisers pretty well confirms that all these guys are working together – perhaps diversified approaches but with a common goal. And I find that laudable. So would Doug.

    Consider a roll out plan starting with various low level, low profile conferences leading to NI Week. Then Doc Celani builds and presents his demo and data. Then DGT presents their data and general design. More data and details follow next weeks at ICCF17. In September high temperature and high power yield data and design elements surface at Leonardo confab. Ordered, logical, constrained. That’s sorta how I would expect it.

    • h_corey

      That is a lot of moving pieces

    • Garry

      Unfortunately something that is unethical is not necessarily illegal. Plenty of brilliant people, like Rossi, can give up ideas that lack legal protection– patents or no patents. Plus, patents can be gotten around.

      So while DGT might have picked up the first ideas from Rossi, you can be sure their lawyer already has the letter ready to edit claiming the DGT developed new technology and plenty of other disclaimers.

      My bet is they hope to have amassed enough patent estate and presence that they can pose for a buyout from the likes of some big oil company. Look at Yahoo and AOL… other also rans… Even if they come in second or third in the race to the market, you can bet someone will pay a pretty penny for them– especially if they have patents that have a smittance of credibility.

      I am not saying any of the above is right… I’ve just seen it happen in my business again and again. Some would call it extortion– others would call it shrewd business savvy.

      I think it’s wrong, but then I don’t make the laws.

      • GreenWin

        You also don’t KNOW law. A summary judgment or injunction shuts down DGT permanently until they can prove in court they did not steal someone else’s IP. Check the law in North America and EU covering IP e.g. for theft of copyright, trademark or patents. Copy a DVD and sell it – you can go to jail for 10 years. Should they not win the case – defendants are subject to criminal and civil penalties under the new ACTA 2011 IP law.

        If DGT does not have a license for IP their CEO said was taken without permission – someone’s going to jail and it ain’t Rossi. Popcorn anyone??

        • Veblin

          I don’t see a problem. You can patent a particular reactor design, but the only thing these reactors have in common is nickel powder, hydrogen and an electric heater.

          It is not like making an exact copy of a DVD.

          • David

            They had nothing before Rossi went to Greece.
            No research, neither the Company.
            So they stole the technology, it’s very simple.

            • Veblin

              And Rossi had nothing before he stole the idea from Piantelli. And Piantelli let his patent lapse.

            • David

              Piantelli hasn’t got any useful device, maybe a prototype with very low output and very far from commercialization

            • Garry

              It sounds simple until the lawyers get involved. They could have looked inside the reactor, seen the premise, realized there was a more fundamental approach not covered by the basic patent, and voila– they have a patent workaround.

              If you patent two sticks rubbing together to make fire, and then I find out that rubbing two rocks together creates heat and I can set leaves on fire with that… I can patent. Unless you patent “rubbing to make heat”, and show it is not prior art or “nature” (you cannot patent nature– see the current fights around gene patents), the patent for “rubbing rocks” is a valid workaround.

        • GreenWin

          Try to grasp the idea of guy who admits he stole your recipe for fried chicken and then went and started the Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise.

          Even a first year law student could win this case. Which would not be filed until KFC is worth a couple billion $$. KFC then has to choose – give the plaintiff 50% of its gross value or go BK.

          • Veblin

            Try to grasp the idea of guy who admits he knew your recipe for fried chicken but then made his own different recipe for fried chicken because he couldn’t use yours and he thought his was better.

            • Peter_Roe

              That was certainly an incredibly stupid admission to make. A defense could be mounted on several grounds of difference, and on prior art (e.g. Raney nickel) but it would almost certainly be cheaper and less disruptive if they could agree a royalty payment with Rossi. Unless of course they are all in it together and the ‘war’ is fake, as GreenWin has intimated.

          • GreenWin

            Seriously Doug, when the CEO of a company tells a public reporter he has appropriated a formula he had NO prior knowledge of, by subterfuge – he has bought himself a jail term, bankruptcy or both. You make a lousy lawyer:)

            Which is why the charade of competition is quaint, but unconvincing. Still, I get to sell millions of tickets to my reality show! And popcorn for $5/bag! $7.50 with real butter.

          • Garry

            This is honestly the most flawed example I have seen. Gawd are you naive.

        • Garry

          Greenwin: LOL. Apparently you don’t know patents. Summary judgment will do NOTHING because US law will not have purview. You are arguing with the wrong person on this one, dude. As to summary judgement, you are talking two nations with very different court systems (Italy and Greece) where the original “contract” existed, and now you are talking two corporations that are in two new countries (US and Canada).

          Have you seen the original contract? Do you know whether they had an agreement to not reverse engineer? Do you kno what Rossi might have said on or off contract? Again, what is unethical is not necessarily illegal. Ask Mitt Romney.

          The point is not whether it is right or not what DGT did. I think it was wrong. What is important is the lawyers will gum up the works. Peronally, I hope Rossi beats the sh*& out of them. But the original point is still true– DGT will make money.

          Also, unfortunately, plenty of ideas sneak through the edges of patents. Ever looked at Rossi’s first patent? I have– and I know patent law through and through. I spend a good part of my work days looking at supposedly well written patents and finding places where there might be workarounds. Rossi’s main US patent has issues…. I suspect he’s started to fill the holes by now, and I wish him the very best, but the original patent did not have enough meat to protect on all fronts. I am betting DGT is not as dumb as we would want them to be.

    • Omega Z

      GW

      They may all be competing, but there could also be some collaboration going on in the background or through intermediaries.

    • Lu

      There was no admission of stealing by Defkalion, only knowledge with the claim that they did not use it. Also Rossi is on record as saying that Defkalion does not know his technology.

      At this point in time, nobody publicly knows with certainty that Rossi’s or Defkalion’s technology even works, let alone how it works. Also if it does work they would probably have to disclose key elements in order to prove that it has been stolen and that is unlikely by either party. I don’t see anything resulting from this and any concern is way overblown, IMO.

      • GreenWin

        Lu, with respect for your technical knowledge – you also make a BAD lawyer. Xanthoulis’ statement and publication thereof in a professional magazine, NyTeknik is incriminating under a dozen international agreements and law. To suggest otherwise is an ignorance of Intellectual Property case law.

        Which makes it more likely Xanthoulis is using Rossi/Focardi IP legally by license.

        • Garry

          The unfortunate thing about lawyers is they are paid to disagree. Any lawyer can state anything they want, but put more than two in a room and that’s when the lawsuits begin. This will not be over any time soon, and DGT will, unfortunately, likely get backing from a deep pockets backer.

          Bottom line: there will be fight and then a buyout and a settlement (in my opinion). That ssaid, there is ZERO evidence the DGT technology is stolen. Doesn’t matter what the CEO says… he can say one thing and they did something else for all you know.

        • GreenWin

          dug, ignorance is not an excuse for unlawful action. Remember the deniers mantra – what evidence do you have?? Er, what do you call a verbal confession to a journalist which is then published in the profession???

          May I suggest you start with Black’s Law Dictionary?

  • Ron

    I’m always astounded at how incompetent the sound people are when making these videos. If you are putting on a conference and making a video, hire someone who knows what they are doing. The first video was difficult to understand (considering the accents)and the second one impossible. I didn’t even watch the rest of them.

    • artefact

      I’m sure there will better videos from Ni. The videos where better than nothing but I also stoped at the second.

  • Hank Mills

    Hello Everyone,

    A few observations.

    First, we do not know how much of the information they shared is their own IP, and how much of it came from their clandestine analysis of Rossi’s E-Cat (that their own president admitted took place). They need to clarify this immediately. Until they do, I will not consider any of what they presented as being 100% original.

    Secondly, unlike Rossi’s technology (that can self sustain without any input) they require a periodic firing of a spark plug to produce a glow discharge. The trade off here seems to be that by doing so they eliminate the need for a periodic “drive” to stop their system from running away, but they also do not have significant periods of self sustained operation. The eventual goal needs to be self sustained operation with no “drive” and no glow discharge required. I think this is what Rossi is going to be working towards in the future. When this happens, the COP will be near infinite.

    Third, I wish some detailed data came with this report. For example, it would be interesting to find out how much output they produced if they allowed the spark plugs to fire more frequently. For example, perhaps sixty times an hour. I wonder if there is a rate at which more atomic hydrogen is generated than can be absorbed by the lattice?

    Fourth, I am very interested in how their nickel powder compares with Rossi’s. I wonder if he is processing it in a similar way to “open it up” to allow for more reaction sites. In the past he has mentioned micro-cavities and tubercules, and I am not sure how this compares to what they have done.

    Fifth, from what I read in their article (I need to re-read it) does it seem like they are implying that there may be an additional source of energy in addition to what is produced by nuclear reactions? Rossi has claimed that in his system there are four main processes by which energy is produced: the E-Cat utilizes fission, fusion, antimatter/matter annihilation, and a fourth unrevealed process. Is Defkalion trying to hint about this? There is talk on the internet about this fourth process being either the tapping of ZPE or the creation/dissipation of black holes.

    Sixth, Rossi has mentioned in the past that one key aspect of his technology is not only creating atomic hydrogen, but also knowing how to use it. This sounds similar to what Defkalion stated about Magnesium and a couple other elements in their report. According to them these agents (I think they were careful not to call them catalysts) help transport the atomic hydrogen where it needs to go. Could these be Rossi’s catalysts? If so, did they just give away some important info? It is hard to know for sure, because Rossi has tested many catalysts and the ones he used back then might not be the same he is using now.

    Seventh, they try to dismiss the idea of enriching the nickel powder. However, it is possible that some of the isotopes of nickel react more strongly than others. Enriching the nickel may actually be a good way of boosting the output.

    I find their report very interesting, but there are many questions that need to be answered.

    • dsm

      Hank

      How much should Rossi acknowledge of what he took from Piantelli ?

      Thanks

      DSM

      • robiD

        Not exactly the same.
        Rossi read a patent and some scientific publications like anyone can do because you can find easily all you need on the web, and with this knowledge he started to work on Ni-H reactions. Rossi has never met Piantelli.
        Defkalion did a joint venture with Rossi so they could come to his laboratory and watching the E-Cat (that at that time was already functioning), then, when they found out (?) Rossi’s secret, they left him without pay the due and starting to work on the Hyperion by themselves.

    • Kim

      Thanks Hank.

      Breath of fresh air.

      I believe ultimately that his reaction will take place in
      the plasma state at very high heat yield.

      Its Just my believe. It will take a few years.

      Again you have always has a way of putting things into perspective
      in a comprehensive manner

      Respect
      Kim

    • jfab

      Hey fanboy, who cares it’s “100% original” or not. It’s frigging LENR! “Free” energy, it’s meant to be all over the place and open-source. I couldn’t care less if Rossi get credentials for something he didn’t invented anyway. Ni-H LENR was there long before Rossi.

      • Peter_Roe

        Perhaps you could make your point without the childish name-calling? Electricity was ‘all over the place’ until inventors put in the time and effort needed to find out how to use it.

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      The spectacle of all these teams moving forward as best they can, many with their hands tied financially behind their backs, may not be inspiring but it is the rough and tumble of the marketplace – and this is a market no one has really entered and where everything is up for grabs. Even the one-armed man will be trying to make off with someone else’s IP. Because they have not managed their media opportunities well, I rather doubt that any excitement of note will ensue when a product does come to the mass market.

      • Joe Varcadipane

        I would be more interested in what is not being said. It is always from the soap box that people hear what they want. But pay attention to what is not being said. We know that this is technology that is gaining a foothold within the scientific/university/commercial industries. It’s these individuals, with their closed lipped approach, who one must pay close attention to to see the real and practical uses of this technology. Anyone can shout from the mountain top and be heard, but who is listening to the silence? There’s where the story lies!
        I believe that these initial participants will go the way of so many pioneers in other industries. Remember that nothing’s fair in love and war!

    • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

      Frank wrote, “their reactors are manually fired around 10 times per hour…” Well, there goes the cost/benefit ratio. Having someone there 24 hrs. a day to keep the Hyperion running is going to be a deal-killer for an awful lot of people. The thing people want is what Rossi and Randell Mills are trying to provide – a device that you can turn on and walk away from, knowing it will run indefinitely.

      BTW, two new chapters tying things up have been added to my novella about cold fusion, “POWER,” at http://www.american-reporter.com. Today it got read (according to the Locations field on SiteMeter) by the US Army Science Branch (never heard of that) and by the Navy people in Norfolk and San Diego, as well the U of Mo./ Kansas City. It was far and away the best-read piece in our paper today, despite the fact that it’s a half-hour read!

      • Veblin

        Come on Joe.

        Manual triggering on a 48 hour test does not mean that someone pressed a button every 6 minutes for 48 hours. It means that they manually set it to trigger 10 times per hour for 48 hours. Automatic triggering might have been 11 triggers in the first hour and 9 the second hour, etc. For testing purposes in this case they wanted all the triggering to be exactly the same time interval.

      • GreenWin

        Joe I read your story and enjoyed. I also reminded you the USS Constitution is the oldest commissioned warship afloat. Strong now as it was at launch in 1798. And I commented on Executive/Congressional power to detain citizens. It IS illegal unless fully disclosed under a writ of habeas corpus.

        Live with the facts.

    • Omega Z

      @ Hank

      I think they use the Spark Plug precisely because they can’t control it as Rossi does his. In DGT’s, A Continuous Power drive probably leads to runaway & core melt.

      I assumed this opinion many months ago when it was said they used power surges. This may exclude them from reaching the temps that Rossi has reached.

  • h_corey

    I bet Rossi dumps his report on us before the start of the conference next week. Cannot have Defkalion upstage him.

    • Kim

      Did not Rossi say that full report to be given
      in Sept?

      Rossi at least seems to fulfill his promises (most of the time)

      I don’t believe Rossi is worried about defkalion.

      Defkalion seems to interest in ego and money rather than rather than any benefit to mankind. It reaks of men/money, and ego.

      Respect
      Kim

      • hempenearth

        I was under the impression we are not getting the full 140 page report from Rossi, just some of it.

        • Omega Z

          I believe I read somewhere that the 140 pages is a compilation of much more & the 140 pages includes a lot of Data sheets.

  • Kim

    I’m totally confused.

    We’ll give third party results in April – Did not Happen

    They closed shop in Italy – Moving to Vancouver.

    Said they were ready to ship units in July-August with COP of

    35-45 COP.

    Is there not one moral person on this earth that can obstain
    from lies,illusions,contusion,confusion,B.S.

    Every thing that goes through the money pathway is convoluted,lied about
    Sounds like dreams of grandeur

    My God what is the point.

    Where are the real men at????

    Just tell the truth about what the heck your doing rather
    then all this top secret clandestine behavior crap.

    I’d rate their credibility at =0

    And the Videos were poor, poor quality

    No Professionalism, just rank amateur

    Respect.
    Kim

    • Robert Mockan

      I agree. We are seeing juvenile public relations, managerial immaturity at all levels, and power point articles and conference videos one might expect from high school science fair projects.

      But that seems to be how things are being done now.

    • daniel maris

      Well if Rossi is for real, I would say that is where the real man is…and he has played a “blinder” as we say in the UK, by doing nothing to encourage mainstream sci-tech to look into LENR (in fact quite the reverse).

      However, we have no way of knowing for sure whether Rossi is for real, or a scammer or incompetent…but if DGT can produce something, for me that means Rossi is genuine.

  • hempenearth

    Vancouver, Zurich and Melbourne!

  • Lu

    I’m very happy to see Defkalion presenting information about their Hyperion product. Hard to believe that Rossi, Celani, and Defkalion are all doing the same thing–LENR. Like chemical reactions LENR may be a whole family of nuclear reactions waiting to be discovered and used. The prospects are very exciting.

    Three things jump out at me after reading Defkalion’s PDFs. One, they’ve done on the face of it an amazing engineering and scientific feat. Quite remarkable really and it will be interesting to hear any scientific reaction to their claims.

    Two, there still is no independent third party identified which will vouch for Defkalion’s results. Enough said on this one.

    And third, their laboratory prototype, while impressive in the engineering and scientific realms, is operating in the less than kW range and I have to question whether they will be able to scale this up to the kW range as indicated in their specifications for a commercial product. They say they will be introducing their industrial prototype in the next few months so we will have to wait for this I guess. It seems they have a long way to go and they are now saying next year for “production lines and support networks.”

    Very exciting all around however.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Lu, “LENR may be a whole family of nuclear reactions waiting to be discovered and used.” You may well be right. I think that we are seeing a glimpse of the future, like looking into a room through the keyhole.

      Lu, “The prospects are very exciting.” Yes!

  • http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/cold-fusion-a-resurrection-and-an-inconvenient-truth-a-view-from-europe/?replytocom=10913#respond praos

    They promissed licenced home heater in August, saying thet they already got the permit. But that was then. I respectfully doubt.

    • Miles

      “E-CAT-Australia Home unit 10kW (Available early in 2013)”. It’s now August but I’m expecting something more like Late 2013. I’ve also received no feedback from Roger Green on my Q’s. New technology will always have teething issues which are current & on-going.

      Frank keeps on pumping out the news articles and everyone just feeds off each others excitement. Not a bad thing, just hope we’re not all feeding off each other’s positive energy the wrong way with all this on-going regurgitated info. Just another news story, another statement, claim, hopefully a game changer – something big is Brewing in the slides & general feeling with LENR….and the oil companies know it and will try to stop it!!!

  • Miles

    Can someone elaborate more on the below? Does that mean a COP between 8 – 22 at 849C? Also, is 92Wh equal to kWh?

    “Defkalion reports that their reactors are manually fired around 10 times per hour to create the reactions, and that the COP ratio (energy in/energy out) ranges from 1:8 – 1:22, with maximum temperatures of 849 C. The maximum heat energy produced is 92Wh.”

    • Lu

      92Wh (energy) per reaction cycle and ten reactions per hour means to me .92kWh. This is my interpretation of the slide. Not bad for a lab prototype.

      COP is COP. 8-22 is far higher than Rossi’s 6.

    • John

      92Wh is a generator producing 92 watts for an hour. That is 330 Kilojoules. Not a lot. That is about a 2.4kw heater running for 137 seconds. I doubt you could get your house warm on that amount of power, probably not your small bedroom either. The good news is that you could boil some water in a jug for a cup of coffee with that amount of energy.

      Now, there is quite a possibility that the numbers and units are wrong, but I’m only working on what I’m given. Oh by the way, 92Wh is equal to 0.092KWh.

      • Miles

        Fantastic explanation John. Nice perspective on how much energy that is !! :)

      • Supervisor

        This is wrong. 92 Wh PER PULSE, one after pulse period lasting 6 minutes, so power output is 920 Wh/h

        • John

          Okay, so if it’s 92Wh per pulse, that’s 330KJ per pulse. One pulse lasts 6 minutes so that’s 920W. That’s quite a bit. But the question is, how long between pulses? Can you just keep pressing the “pulse” button? If not, what is the time between pulses?

          • Pachu

            I think manually means it has no algorithm or control system, but not you need to press a button, there is a timer you can set to modify the pulses interval, anyway i find it weird, as sense and action shouldnt be hard to engineer….

          • Ged

            They pulse 10 times an hour, that’s where Supervisor got that “lasting 6 minutes” from. This is pulsed plasma ignition instead of the electrical flow stimulation of the Celani/Rossi style, it seems.

        • Peter_Roe

          Which is another way of saying 920W or 0.92kW of averaged thermal output at 10 pulses/hour. The power required to generate the pulses is probably fairly insignificant. I think this is just a ‘test bed’ though and probably doesn’t indicate the potential of the system.

      • daniel maris

        Yes, but people do use it as a gross unit…it is commonly used in the electricity industry to indicate total output e.g.6 GwH per annum.

        So you haven’t answered the question I am afraid.

        • John

          Oh sure, I didn’t realise that people are mangling their units. Suppose you have a power station that says on the brochure “6GWH per annum” then I assume that they are just using the H and the annum superfluously. So that means at peak power output (with a full lake if it is a hydroelectric station) it is producing 6GW, enough for maybe 750,000 homes with an oven, heater and plasma TV all consuming power.

          In this case it would mean 92W continuously. That is rather low, not enough to boil a cup of water probably. Equal to on incandescent (old style) light bulb.

          • Peter_Roe

            If 92Wh (thermal) are generated per pulse, then at 10 pulses a minute that equates to 920W(t) continuous averaged output. Enough to boil a kettle.

  • daniel maris

    When you say 92 Whs presumably you mean Whs per hour – as opposed to over the whole run??

    • RichyRoo

      Doubt it; Wh per hour is watts (joules per second).

      Heres a quick example:
      A 2000watt (2kW) heater uses 2000 joules of energy per second
      Run the heater for an hour and you have used 2kWh (kilo Watt hours).

      A 1000W (1kW) heater uses 1000 joules of energy per second.
      Run the heater for one hour, 1kWh, two hours and its 2kWh.

      • daniel maris

        I understand that! Not clear from Frank (?)’s statement whether it was per hour or for a total session.

  • jacob

    WHY can we not get better video and sound ,it does not hold my interest trying to hear and see . I guess video is an after thought ,i have better video and sound from my first camcorder in the early eighties.Not looking professional

    not to be critical,but disappointed completely

  • dsm

    An interesting set of presentations. Next we need the validations.
    .
    Looking good.
    .
    DSM