Rossi Pushing for E-Cat Stability at 1200 C [Updated]

It looks like Andrea Rossi is trying to max out the E-Cat. Not content with stable temperatures at 1000 C, he says he is trying to head higher. Today on the Journal of Nuclear physics he said:

We reached with the Hot Cats the temperature of 1 000 Celsius degrees: this makes closer the electric power production. With this temperature we can heat the steam up 600 Celsius, getting high efficiencies. In these very days we are working on it. We got a validation on the Hot Cat : tomorrow we will be working for 24 hours at 1 200 Celsius degrees. Unfortunately I have to invest on this my Summer Holidays…

With stable heat at 1000C making 600C steam, the E-Cat should be capable of powering the conventional steam turbines found in modern power plants. At 1200C one would expect steam temperatures even higher. One would expect, or at least hope that some people in the electricity generation industries might be paying attention by now. It’s hard for me to think of any scenario now in which Andrea Rossi would be simply telling lies about these marvelous achievements — unless he is completely insane. I hope that the upcoming validation reports that will be presented at the Zurich conference in September will help to show one way or another who Andrea Rossi really is.

UPDATE: Rossi made this report on the JONP today:

To Whom it may interest:
After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The power of the Hot Cat is 10 kW. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
Warm Regards,

So it appears from this quote that Rossi may have another report coming out in addition to the one he will be reporting at the Zurich conference. It will be very important for Leonardo’s business prospects for these reports to start circulating among potential customers.

  • Well Done Rossi , Keep it up!!!

  • Klemen

    Up until now I did believe in e-cat with some reservations. Now that belief has somewhat shifted to disbelief, because Rossi is trying to reach 1200 °C. If what I read from numerous articles on this topic nickel is being transmuted to copper? But copper has melting temperature at 1085 °C. Am I missing something here?

    • Joseph Fine

      Nickel powder remains solid even though a small amount of copper is in liquid phase. There is no urgent reason to operate at these temperatures except to learn how to recover from power excursions that would otherwise lead to meltdowns. And meltdowns are bad for business. He’s only trying to make it fool proof (though he can never make it damn-fool proof).

  • daniel maris

    Interesting message from The Man…

    Andrea Rossi
    August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM
    To Whom it may interest:
    After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
    We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
    Warm Regards,

    • Hank Mills

      This is fantastic news!

      Rossi just trumped all the other cold fusion researchers at NI Week!

      • daniel maris

        Whether you do or don’t believe Rossi, I think we can agree there’s a connection between that NI conference and his message!

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          It feels like damage control, to be honest.
          “Please look at me!” or something.

          Ok, it might not actually be the case, but the timing is unfortunate.

          • Hank Mills

            The timing is GREAT.

            He is reaffirming the fact that no one else has presented a technology nearly as advanced as the E-Cat.

            It is time some of these other cold fusion researchers step up their efforts, and start working to produce kilowatts instead of tens of watts, or less.

            • Luca Salvarani

              I completely agree with you! I wonder what “soon” release means? I hope it’s a matter of DAYS.

            • Ivan Mohorovicic

              As long as only Rossi’s affiliates or big secret industrial entities are able put their hands on such technology, it’s as good as non-existent. Celani’s more open and transparent methods (not to mention clearer reputation) is more likely to attract competent people and investors able to help him scientifically, commercially and engineeringly.

              If you’ve waded though Cures’ comments (since you mentioned him) you have probably read that even he is appalled by Rossi’s behavior (he often mentions that Rossi’s worst enemy is Rossi himself) and that if he were him, he would have treated this technology much differently, favoring everybody’s benefit rather than personal wealth by thinking in small scale like Rossi does.

              Henry Ford
              “True progress is that which places technology in everyone’s hands.”

            • jacob

              Ivan ,what the heck are you talking about,Mr.Rossi has been given us a step by step play since last October.

              Mr Celani has demonstrated a mere slight increase of overunity a little over 1

              My 2 plate heater outperforms Celani’s

              the Industry gets the E-cat first it is only logical,they will save billions.

              And why should Industry cover up why LENR works.

            • David

              Henry Ford said “True progress is that which places technology in everyone’s hands” when he was already rich!

            • clovis

              Its my belief that Rossie has always been ahead of the rest of the pack, with validation, demo, and product sales,
              GO Andrea, you de man .

          • Francesco CH

            Competition is competition

            • Hank Mills


              It seems like Rossi has made very good choices recently, because he has found partners that have helped him to make tremendous progress very rapidly.

              Also, I do not think the news is as good as non-existent. The fact is that the test reports will be coming out. We just have to be patient.

              What I find interesting is that all the other cold fusion researchers have known about Rossi’s E-Cat for a year and a half now, and none of them have been able to show a system producing kilowatts of power. I think Rossi has a very good reason not to give out too much information too soon, because it would be giving away critical data to his competitors.

              None of Rossi’s competitors have anything to lose by doing demonstrations and posting all of their data. They are only able to produce tiny amounts of power. If someone else is able to reproduce what they are able to do, it is not a big deal.

              On the other hand, if someone stole Rossi’s tech, he would have everything to lose.

            • Luca Salvarani

              To Ivan

              I think you haven’t a correct translation of Cures’ words. I’ve been reading his posts, and also tried to ask him something (I’m that “Matematico”). The main differences are:
              1) He would have done a public demonstration to ease the commercial operations but also admites that many things have to be fixed so less attentions would ease all this efforts and gain time over future competitors.. I want to stress that Cures doesn’t seem to be involved in the management but only in the technical and engeneering side… so Rossi has a wider look and Curer understand thae difference between a scientist and an entrepenuer.
              2) He have written that Rossi is doing too much things at the same time.. so it seems that 16 working hours per day aren’t enough.
              Taking all together Cures has a very positive opinion or Rossi! Both as person and as entrepenuer. If I miss something please post me the original italian post which supports your conclusion.

            • Ivan Mohorovicic

              How would you translate this, from last November:

              Ma il peggior nemico di Rossi à lo stesso Rossi che gestisce la sua immagine pubblica in modo distratto e deleterio per gli affari riuscendo nell’incredibile impresa di far sembrare ottone quello che è l’oro della scoperta.

          • mcloki

            Have you thought that since Rossi isn;t working with NI, that he might not present at their conference. Especially if he’s working with Siemens?

            • Luca Salvarani

              To Ivan

              He’s criticicing Rossi’s way of communication, his “public relation”… not the way he manages the company. This haven’t prevented him to attract talented people or partners, as you state. And in my view Cures was only replying to those stressed Rossi’s inconsistencies… but what Cures can’t admitt is that those inconsistencies are voluntary and functional to gain time over competitors. By the way, as Mills correcty pointed out, Rossi’s rapid progresses heve been really incredible and only a collaboration with smart people and partners would have made them possibile.. Sorry for my really horrible english but I’m in a hurry and here it’s 4 AM…

          • T Lee Buyea – Fla. News Service Miam

            I am now waiting for the Anti-gravity model E-Cat, It will make the flying E-Cat powered cars save on tire wear by hovering above the roads.

    • Lu

      This is great. Looks like Rossi is beginning to appreciate the concern for third party validation. Unfortunately for this validation to have any weight, the names of the parties performing the validation, the description of the process, and the results obtained need to be disclosed so things can be properly vetted.

      “Soon” no longer has any meaning for Rossi, unfortunately, as he has used this term before and we are STILL waiting. I look forward to the report but will not get excited about this announcement.

      Well maybe just a little 🙂

      • jacob

        comments like this are a dime a dozen waste of time even reading


        • GreenWin

          Lu’s just putting his two cents in.

    • Robert Mockan

      It sounds like whoever is making the catalyst Rossi is using now is directly engineering the lattice cell variables like size, nickel atom orientation, electron band gap, local defects, and so on. It sounds like nuclear active site number is being optimized, like hydrogen has more complete access to the nuclear active sites, and phonon coupling to the lattice is being optimized. And possibly Rossi is “boosting” the activation with more than just “spillover” hydrogen, fugacity, and RF excitation of hydrogen ions in the lattice cells.

      Wish I knew who the scientist was doing the catalyst composition development. That would be a valuable clue to understanding more precisely what he is doing.

      But the most valuable revelation from Rossi is simply admission they can run LENR using nickel (alloy?) at 1200 C. There are not a lot of stable physical variables in metal alloy lattice crystal structures at such a high temperature. By the process of elimination of what is stable, and what not, how the latest LENR catalyst is working can be evaluated even without knowing the exact composition. And from there making a substitute will be feasible.

      Thank you again Rossi. You ARE THE MAN of the hour!

      But I hope he knows others are going to figure out what he is doing before much longer, and takes that into account with his marketing plans.

      • GreenWin

        I hope Ing Rossi gets to read your comment Robert. He should be delighted.

  • barty


    Andrea Rossi
    August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM

    To Whom it may interest:
    After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
    We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
    Warm Regards,

    • Peter Poulsen

      great! How about some words from that independent nuclear engineer, to relieve out sceptisicm about Rossi’s claims?

      • georgehants

        Peter, I am mystified, why you waste so mush effort, why not just put up a question mark or something instead of repeating the same sentence over and over and over again.
        We shall all know what you are saying and of course take no notice the same as if you write a novel of inept repetition.

  • Hank Mills

    It is time to get more active than ever, everyone!

    The emergence of cold fusion is accelerating faster than ever before. Every day it seems like we hear of new tests of primitive systems that prove, yet again, that excess heat can be produced. Also, we are learning more about the E-Cat, an advanced system, that is now capable of producing temperatures of 1,000C in a totally stable manner. Very importantly, the highlights of the extended test of the high temperature E-Cat is going to be revealed at the Zurich conference. If what we have been hearing about this report is true, it is going to be a ten ton weight to drop on the heads of the skeptics!

    We need to start spreading awareness of cold fusion technology like never before. Of course we do not need to just go online and do so, but we can also tell our friends, relatives, neighbors, and co-workers. Once the news of this technology hits the mainstream, the world is going to change in a very significant way, and we need to give as many people as possible a heads up!

    The fossil fuel age is now coming to an end. It may last another decade or so, but the nickel-hydrogen cold fusion technology is going to change everything.

    Just imagine a world in which…

    — Your home is off the grid and powered by a cold fusion generator.

    — Your car utilizes a cold fusion generator that gives it an infinite range.

    — Your dollar goes further because the price of every item has went down.

    — The Earth is being transformed into a better place due to massive water desalination plants opening that allow for deserts to be turned into farmland.

    This future is coming! We need to tell everyone!

    We also need to tell them to make sure that when they start hearing about cold fusion on the news, that they demand the technology be given a fast track to certification.

    Hope must win, not fear.

    • jacob

      Hank ,the end of the Mayan calender is 2012,maybe it is indicating the end of the fossil fuel dependency,and freedom from slavery

  • AB

    Why Celani’s demo is very important:

    It’s a nickel-hydrogen reactor, that seems reasonably stable and starts with the press of a button. While Piantelli’s original cells had roughly comparable power output and good stability, they could not be easily started and many never produced any excess power. Their paper speaks of having to having to induce drastic changes in input power and pressure to get the reaction going.

    Other LENr experiments are typically also slow and difficult to start.

    That Celani is confident to make demo in a public convention speaks volumes about his confidence in the stability of the reaction.

    In these three aspects Celani’s apparatus is similar to the e-cat even though the technology is probably somewhat different (and the e-cat is *seemingly* more advanced).

    • georgehants

      Thanks AB, reading lots of comments but was not sure about what had happened and its meaning, you have put it in easy terms.
      Did it show a measured excess of energy output against input please.

      • Ged

        Yes, by 20-14 W excess thermal energy, as measured outside the entire device by radiative exchange.

        • georgehants

          Thanks Ged, now I understand the excitement.

    • Hank Mills

      The E-Cat is much more advanced that what Celani demonstrated.

      I find it interesting to watch all these various companies try to play catch up to Leonardo Corporation. I’m curious what Defkalion is going to present, and if it will match their previous claims of 650C and a COP of 30 or more. I doubt what they present will even come close to what we know about the E-Cat. My thinking is that they clearly exaggerated their claims in the past, and what they show will probably be a fairly weak system.

      • Peter Poulsen

        But Celani is doing something rossi aint. He is showing the public that his device actually works.

        • cx

          Completely agree

          • Hank Mills

            So you too are unaware of the dozen or so tests that took place in 2011 that proved the E-Cat produces massive amounts of excess heat?

            Those test prove the E-Cat can produce huge amounts of excess heat. In fact, they prove that if allowed to operate in an uncontrolled manner, the E-Cat can produce a COP in the hundreds. Now, test results are about to appear that confirm the E-Cat can produce very high temperatures.

            The E-Cat is real and works.

            Recognize it.

        • Hank Mills

          Rossi showed his devices worked in 2011.

          He showed they worked a dozen times.

          Over and over again his devices were tested. They were tested by various engineers and scientists around the world. Also, different models of E-Cats were tested, and they all worked!

          • GreenWin

            Hank, you waste your breath on programmed deniers. Think of a wind up monkey. They do and say the same thing over and over again.

          • barty

            Maybe, but we, the quiet observers, can’t check if this claims are right.

            We need some independened test results.

            I hope one of the licensees will do more drum up the business!

          • Peter Poulsen

            I followed the news about the tests in 2011. As exiting as they were it was a completely closed test where those who publicly attended wasnt showed much. And then there were secret people who were allowed, according to rossi, to see everything.
            All the tests rossi have made has been very closed and secretive.

            The difference with celani is that his device has run at a public university for everytone to come and see, and he have just showed it at a public conference without any limitation. To me that is more valuable as proff compared to rossi’s.

            Again im not saying rossi is a lier, but i wont pop the champagne until he gives irrefutable proff of his claims… and he HAVE’NT done that yet.

        • jacob

          Peter,you have only seen a picture of Celani .and some text,but you chose to believe him without doubt.

          • dragonX

            I guess that talks about the credibility Rossi has with the general public. You see, there is always this thing about his previous encounter with the law that bother people.

            On the other hand Celani is a professor and a researcher like Fleischmann and Pons.
            If it will not be for Focardi, Rossi will be without public even now, no matter what “tests”. I guess, at some point, being in an open and peer review environment like these researchers, DOES matter to reputation.

            • jacob

              X,to me peer review equals a box of bananas,these researchers are usually funded by the status quo establishment following accepted theories.

              To out of the box thinkers Rossi has extreme credibility.

              to the wind up monkey ,or according to mainstream science ,Rossi is speaking a different language that is misunderstood as dabadu idonknow ithinkiguess butuknow gaga do.

              previous encounter with the law ? oh so Rossi isn’t perfect,then who is?

              The general public doesn’t have a clue about LENR,or about Rossi.

            • Peter Poulsen


              “If it will not be for Focardi, Rossi will be without public even now, no matter what “tests”.”

              For me its all about the tests that have been made. If he would have let researchers examine the test thoroughly without any limitations then i would trust Rossi, but the only man who was allowed that was some secret guy, who may or may not be in the military. For the public that just shouldnt be good enough.

              There is a very big difference of open rossi have been about his invention and how open Celani have been. And for me that makes Celani more trustworthy… atlest until Rossi can show a a public test without all the secretivity and closedness.

          • Peter Poulsen

            I have seen a device that have run for weeks at a public university, and have just been showed at a public conference without any limitation. If it was a scam then people would come out and say it.

            All rossis tests have not been public and very secretive.

            • Omega Z

              If you did some real research on who’s involved & where the connections lead you would probably have a different take on this.

              You would have a better idea why from the beginning that North & South America & the U.S. Military market were to be left to Rossi.

              You would realize that TPTB have either decided to allow this technology to come to market or there is a Major Divide among the TPTB.

              The Connections have a World wide reach, but have Major Connections in North & South America & the U.S. Military.

              These people are connected to DARPA, NASA, Spawar, DOE, DOD, NAVY & many more. They are connected to hundreds of businesses in the Western Hemisphere. These people are involved in multiple partnerships & Multiple titles, & most or all have Personal connections to each other directly for nearly 2 decades at least & many have personal association with Rossi for at least 15 years. Many have or still hold positions in the above list.

              These People are the Power behind the Power. Without them nothing gets done. Kind of like a General without an Army. They are working with Ross behind the scenes. They are also Highly aware of Brillouin & BLP among others. They arrange the Financial backing of these people.

              You will SEE what they want you to SEE WHEN they want you to SEE it. Not before….

              There’s Several Corporations that people had determined a couple years ago weren’t associated with Rossi in any way. Guess again. Digging deeper you find he was partner or Co-Founder of them. Want to know which ones. Do the research. But you wont find anything researching LENR or E-cat. Most direct connections have been scrubbed. There now behind walls where names are no longer available to the public. They fall outside the FOIA or public disclosure.

  • > unless he is completely insane

    I don’t know about you but I feel a little insane for peeking in to see what’s happening on e-catworld for so long. You would think that by now I would get the message that this guy just is never ever going to produce any device that leaves his private secret lab and makes it into the real world.

    • Ged

      Time lines, my dear Ponzi, time lines. We can gripe about that as soon as Zurich is over, and if the deadlines for the licensees in October are not met (within reason).

      • Data will be presented at Zurich. Data in and of itself is meaningless. I can present data that I have a car that gets 200 miles per gallon. Unless I show you the car and let you test it the data (look it gets: 200 mpg) is useless. The presumption that licensees exist only proves there are people out there willing to participate in Rossi’s operation.

        • Ged

          The 3rd party validation will be presented at Zurich. But there is a demo of something (electrical power generation using low heat, but unknown source?) also going on.

          October is supposed to be the licensee conference (unless Zurich is replacing that) where they will get a full run down of the technology, to start sales.

        • georgehants

          Charles Ponzi, do you think it might be sensible to wait for the event before making pointless comments.
          Your example, if I may say at this stage or the story is infantile.
          I look forward to reading a good comment from you sometime, or if you think, that as you say you are insane watching, could I suggest, not watching.

          • G_Zingh

            Two independent reports both of them saying basically the same thing? If these are from credible sources and the reports are made public in full.

            It is time for Rossi to hire a PR person to manage all the press he is going to get.

            Andrea Rossi
            August 7th, 2012 at 4:53 PM
            To Whom it may interest:
            After the validation of the Hot Cat made on July 16th we made today another Third Party Validation, with the Certificator: the results have been the same of the test made on July 16th. The maximum temperature we reached has been 1 200 Celsius. Of this validation will be made an indipendent report which will be published soon. This test has been performed in the Product Validation Process that we have asked after the Safety Certification. This test has been directed by an indipendent Nuclear Engineer who is leading the certification processes of the industrial plants.
            We are extremely enthusiast of the work of today, because is the second time we get a third party validation in a month, getting the same results.
            Warm Regards,

        • Lu

          Except if included with the data is the name of a respected person, group, or company and that entity doesn’t deny the data. Then we have something. To me the identity of the tester is more important than the actual data.

    • I am fascinated by the many different ways that the sudden influx of skeptics find to say exactly the same thing using such a variety of tangential approaches.

      • Hank Mills

        Not all of them are skeptics. Some of them actually realize the E-Cat works, because they are competitors. They are terrified of the E-Cat, because it makes their technologies look pathetic. So out of desperation they are making up usernames and posting negative comments on every blog that is supportive of the E-Cat. They are determined to “muddy the waters” enough so that Rossi’s progress might be slowed, so they can figure out how to make their cold fusion devices actually produce practical amounts of power.

        • GreenWin

          Spot on Hank. And for those who are not competitors they are paid disinfo guys with various agendas. Nuclear fission, hot fusion, and fossil fuel companies want to slow down progress til they can get in via M&A, stealth or (heaven forbid) their own research!

          But as you point out, they will be far behind the e-cat and may have to settle for a license deal to enter the game.

        • jacob

          Rossi understands the opponents very well,it is in knowing their next move,that is why he has always been a step ahead ,those that are digging a hole for Rossi have fallen in it themselves so far.

          Rossi strategy is working very well.

          Whatever happened to Dick Smith,did he buy an E-cat?

          Dick please tell us ,pretty please.Thanks in advance.

          • Omega Z

            Dick Smith s probably busy trying to unload his Cap & Trade shares.

    • Hank Mills

      You are totally wrong. This technology is going to change the world. No other cold fusion device on the planet even comes close to the E-Cat. Just wait until the highlights of the report comes out at Zurich, and you will see the truth: that the E-Cat technology is powerful, robust, and a total solution to the energy crisis.

      BTW, we are not insane for following the E-Cat. We are forward thinking and open to new ideas. The insane ones are the pseudo-skeptics and cynics who have dismissed cold fusion technology for so long.

    • jacob

      Ponzi,for piet sake take some sleeping pills and wake up in December.

  • Visitor

    Please everybody, Don’t lose hopes for a better future or in reality of CF, Don’t forget we still have BlackLight Power and Energetics Technologies whom have already proven thier technology by third parties. Start aiming your focus on these serious guys and stop falling for false illusions web promoted by stakeholders.

    Do you realy think that people whom have invented such a major breakthroughs would be conducting PR for themselves 24/7? A man like Rossi should have been standing on the United Nation’s podium aside of presidents saying “ladies and gentlemen, I’ve found the way to save out planet” long time ago. He didn’t.

    What I want to say to Mr Rossi and all others unproven ones is – If You Wanna shoot, shoot! Don’t Talk!

    • I’m not sure that many people are losing hope, Visitor. Quite the reverse I think. The more the merrier, as the old English expression goes.

    • Hank Mills

      The E-Cat technology is already proven. It was proven over and over again in 2011. The tests conducted proved that massive amounts of excess heat can be produced by the E-Cat.

      I’m not losing hope at all, and in fact, I am more hopeful than ever. We have heard from inside sources such as “Cures” that the E-Cat is now capable of producing temperatures (in a totally stable manner) of over 1,000C. With these temperatures many forms of heat to electric conversion become practical.

    • GreenWin

      Hi Visitor from…

      Indeed Randell Mills’ CIHT technology will be seeing daylight just as Ni+H and a few others will. There is PLENTY FOR EVERYONE. After all there are now 6.5 billion humans on earth all of whom need energy. You have mentioned Energetics Technologies third party validation – are you referring to Rob Duncan’s work for CBS and now the Kimmel Inst for Nuclear Renaissance (at Univ Missouri??)

  • georgehants

    Cold fusion’ chemist Martin Fleischmann dies
    Published August 07, 2012
    Associated Press
    Read more:

    • georgehants

      ‘Cold fusion’ chemist Martin Fleischmann dies August 7, 2012 by PETER SVENSSON British chemist Martin Fleischmann, who stunned the world by announcing that he had achieved nuclear fusion in a glass bottle, has died after a long illness. He was 85.
      Read more at:

      • Shame Svensson couldn’t find a few words to publish after he attended Rossi’s first demo.

    • Stephen Taylor

      Interesting that the last word was from Michael Melich saying Fleishman was an “exploratory genius”. That almost neutralized their (foxnews) idiotic summary of current events as “Research on “Cold Fusion” persists on the fringes of the scientific world”.

  • barty

    What’s going on there? What are they talking about?

    Group looking for independent test volunteers

  • GreenWin

    This is fascinating. Over at “Next Big Future” that occasionally reports on LENR, they are censoring any mention of NI Week and the successful Celani demonstration. Subversion of the US Constitution and the Fourth Amendment is a federal crime. Subversion by an sworn officer of the State or Federal government is an act of treason. As the Queen of Hearts is dear to saying, “Off with their heads!”

  • admin
    • I’m not sure about “Research on ‘cold fusion’ persists on the fringes of the scientific world.” but otherwise, good on them.

  • GreenWin

    Celani’s demo has run 55 hours @ 14-22W excess heat in front of 5000 attendees of NI Week (source 22Passi blogspot) NI Week shaping up to be a full-on assault on LENR deniers.

    IGZ-2013 Resistance is futile.

    • Ged

      It really is. We need to get information on everything that goes on there regarding LENR now. This is way bigger than I had hoped or thought, even from the latest itinerary list! May even be bigger than ICCF-17 for practical purposes.

      • LCD

        COP ~1

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          More like COP 1.3

          Not much compared to the big players, but still better than “~1” and scientifically significant since we’re speaking of watts, not milliwatts (NANOR of Peter Hagelstein is reported to have larger gains, but in the range of milliwatts).

          • Carlos

            Rossi’s E-Cat (COP of 6) also has results around those values when you transform heat into electricity with a 18-21% efficiency. So it’s a COP of 1.08~1.26

          • Barry

            The NANOR was not about power, but about achieving COP. The beauty of it was scaled down so it could be demonstrated in a class room instead of a laboratory, then packed up and moved, as it has been, to a different location and measured some more. It is quite portable and revolutionary and with a COP of 10-14, it is nothing to shake a stick at. The idea is to learn about it first then it can be scaled up. A report on the NANOR will be presented at ICCF-17.

    • Pachu

      Frank, this should be main post, not Rossi’s says, kinda tired of Rossi’s says…..

    • AB

      Somewhere a skeptic fainted reading this.

      • dragonX

        Not yet, I assure you. Knowing skeptics, they will probable say that they will believe LENR to be commercial feasible only when they can boil eggs with the EXCESS heat.

      • Renzo

        did you read our old friend Maryyugo comment on Krivit’s post? 🙂

        • dragonX

          Well, I’m sorry to say it buy Maryyougo is right in that post.

          • Ged

            Actually, no, Maryyougo’s questions are easily answerable just by using our own heads.

            1) Measurement error? Not at these levels above background, at a conference by a major measurement supplier. This would be checked out and verified to the extreme. Watts is well above any error thresholds at the levels we’re talking about. Even the milliwatts of MIT are.

            2) Raney Nickel reaction? Raney Nickel is a nickel-aluminum alloy that can burn in air due to the large amount of hydrogen that easily is absorbed by it and its redox ability. It does redox chemistry by using that hydrogen or the nickel itself for reactions with organic compounds.

            It isn’t going to be generating useable energy (reduction is the transfer of energy from the Raney Nickel to the organic compound, so it’s a potential energy loss, and not much of a heat generator), let alone watts of it. And a steady feed of organic compounds would be required to continue reactions, or it would peeter out in a matter of moments. The wires used are not Raney nickel wires, and it is not in a chemical bath.

            As S calculated in the previous article, the energy release is above the chemical energy density of hydrogen by at least a few orders of magnitude, pushing it into the realm of nuclear energy densities.

            –As for the second post by that person: look at the device, it IS a calorimeter. The reactions are going on for over days, that handedly rules out all chemical reactions, as we’ve already discussed. More wires aren’t used, as we are talking about the simplest case. If more were used, Mary would complain about that! As a scientist, I’m sure Celani has done blank runs; that’s basic control data. In fact, we can do that ourselves, by taking such a wire and letting it just sit there; nothing special will happen. I’m also sure all readouts are calibrated (this IS an NI event after all, and we are talking about a scientist); that wasn’t even a question, but an accusation based on nothing.

            So, it’s easy to use our heads to answer these questions; some of which are not even questions but just pretentious statements. Nothing to see here, as usual.

            • AB

              Celani uses isotan-44 wires (cu-ni-mn). That has nothing to do with raney nickel indeed.

              Also the cell has an inactive wire built in that acts as control afaik.

            • Ged

              You’re absolutely right, AB. Exactly how a well designed experiment should look.

            • Hody seems to have an obsession with Raney nickel. It has featured in many of his ‘debunk’ attempts over the last year or two, as have the specious ‘measurement error’ suggestions. Feasibility seems not to matter, just so long as some doubt is introduced for the less technically knowledgeable.

            • dragonX

              What many of us are waiting is for the Cold Fusion scientists to stop repeating like parrots that Cold Fusion exists and to just scale up the devices enough to open the eyes of the most redneck skeptic out there. As it is now, this did not happened yet.
              And if Celani had the chance with this presentation to bring a scaled up version of what he brought to NI Week, it is very sad he did not do it. The question is why? He can’t scale up the wires? Why give skeptics a CHANCE??? Why keep this field in only tens of watts, when you can show hundreds or thousands of watts?

            • Ged

              Because, Dragon, Celani is a scientist, not an industrialist. We scientists are largely reductionist in our approach: we try to get something working in the -simplest case- to eliminate all confounding variables, and that is what we present as proof. A scale up would not be a scientific way to approach it at this point.

              Celani’s work is trying to elucidate how this phenomenon operates, hence distilling it down to as basic a reaction as feasible. He’s doing things the right way from the scientific view point. His work does not give “skeptics” a chance (at least not the type and level we are familiar with), if they would actually read it.

          • Ged

            Here, Dragon, take a look at Celani’s paper . It addresses all the concerns raised at New Energy Times. Kinda makes me sad, I almost want to make an account to tell them about this and answer each question from the paper (for instance, Celani is measuring heat as determined from radiation of heat exchanging outside the entire device, it seems, and the wire is in open air at times (and put under inert argon with hydrogen at other times), so it’s not doing any sort of reactions like Raney Nickel or it would combust; also the wire is pre-burned at 600 C to get rid of all chemical/plastic residues prior to use), but that place is too… I dunno, just too silly for me.

            • GreenWin

              Ged, it appears the kirvit is torn… Get in on the disclosure action, or stay in the negative space he’s created for himself. Had he bothered to fact check and report openly without personal bias – he might have readers. Instead he looks like an unhappy blogger with a big chip on his shoulder.

    • Peter Poulsen

      I dont see many LENR deniers. I see many who doubt the grandeous statements from people like rossi. It seems silly to keep talking about these breakthroughs without ever providing proof of anything to back it up.

      I honestly hope we are close to a energy revolution, but im not like the fools that are treating rossi as a hero, eventhough they dont have any scientific proff, that he isnt just talking out of his ass.

      • fauno’s

        @peter poulsen:tu sei l’asino che da del cornuto al toro…

      • GreenWin

        Funny, that’s exactly the way millions of global taxpayers feel about 60 years of hot fusion promises – no proof of anything useful. And it’s cost us $250 Billion for the dis-privilege.

    • artefact

      Celani will bring his reactor also to the ICCF.

      From his new paper:

      The experiment will be stopped on July 28 to
      package and “shipping” the reactor to USA (National
      Instruments Meeting at Austin-Texas) and later-on to
      Korea (ICCF17 Conference at Daejeon).

  • Loop

    If we Hypotheses that Rossi is telling the truth this time, (its very low percentage that he is telling the truth now), someone should ask him, did he managed to sustain the core and steam of single unit to the 1200C or with the multiple units joined.
    He said or somebody who wrote this text “Hot Cats” which imply that he used multiple units.

    The question is if he sustained 1200/720 from multiple/joined units which is the amount of temperature of a single unit in that test.

    Someone should ask him which sealant did he used for sustaining 720C of steam and which sealant did he used for 1200c in the chamber. If he used multiple ecats how come that he is saying 1200c in a core, in which core, (in the last core)???????
    Something is wrong here.

    If he didn’t used any sealant in the chamber does he know which is the air gap tolerance of contacting surface.

    We broke Defkalion story on their forum about sustained temperature of their chamber when they leaked pictures when they used hemp as sealant.

    That was the red flag that they are faking the story.

    Everything is in the details.

    • dragonX

      Although I give way more percentage to Rossi’s credibility than you, I still want to see Rossi being pushed to finally do something CONCLUSIVE with whatever device he has.

      • vbasic

        Yes! Especially after your report about Brillouin pushing full steam ahead and their actions (not hopes or plans but ACTION). Rossi may get left in the dust if he keeps hoping to improve what he has.
        Incidentally, if I was a science writer for a mainstream publication, I think Brillouin would be the first breaking LENR story, I could safely report and probably wouldn’t get me fired for being incorrect.

        • dragonX

          There are 3 incentives that makes Brillouin attractive:

          1. At least in Brillouin’s case we have a known (as in not hidden) Third Party (SRI) that works with him to make his technology commercial viable.

          2. Brillouin participated and will participate to more Cold Fusion social events, getting tested with questions from the other Cold Fusion researchers.

          3. Also, Robert E. Godes is less known by skeptics & media (so in this case.. less toxic) than Rossi. At this point in history, this might help him.

          • Omega Z

            SRI has their own decades long research involving McKubre. The Brillouin deal is a contract through SRI by a DARPA Grant to scale up a boiler.

            This wouldn’t be a 3rd party validation that most want.

            A full Validation isn’t going to happen until certain Entities get all their Eggs in a row.

        • Omega Z

          Most of the Media has given a little lip service to most of these groups. Maybe a 1 time 2 minute window & gone. This provides them plausible Deni-ability of suppression should it break out in public. They wont do a serious report until told to.

          Reading about the goings on behind the scenes, 60 Minutes received a lot of grief & Threats about their Cold Fusion episode from multiple agencies…

    • Hemp fibre smeared with white lead paste was a standard sealant in steam locomotives for a century or more. It’s primitive, but it works. Why is that a ‘red flag’?

      In any case what is the relevance of Defkalion’s prototype construction to what Rossi is doing now? And what does it matter what exact geometry Rossi is using? These seem to be rather irrelevant side issues.

      • Loop

        Its important because you can calculate which is the possible temperature of the core.
        If you ever tested hemp as sealant you would know which is the maximum before the seal breach.
        I tested it with the plasma, and depending to the air gap and the contact surface tolerance you could calculate which is the amount of direct sealant contact to the plasma or with the burned nickle.

        You said “Defkalion prototype”, which is the difference with the Rossi prototype. Rossi doesn’t have the finished product he also have the prototype, by the way Defkalion fake products were 4-5 times on the scale more finished than Rossi products if we compare the single units products.

        Listen we all believe in a better tomorrow, even I stopped believing in this story I hope with all of my heart that in the future something will pop-out as a truth.

        • Ged

          What were the calculations you made? Doing a google search, I’ve found hemp sealants that go up to +200 C, so what was the exact type? We aren’t dealing with plasmas either. At what location in the reactor did you see this hemp sealant?

    • Ol’ Bab

      Loop said: The question is if he sustained 1200/720 from multiple/joined units which is the amount of temperature of a single unit in that test.

      Easy enough, Loop, both single units are at the same temperature, about 1200/720.

      But I doubt 2 or more units are joined in any meaningful way, there’s no point to it. Later, when driving a steam engine/turbine, it may be necessary to take the steam from many units to adequately run one (real, not toy) turbine.

      He may have a bunch of units running at the same time, accumulating reliability hours or whatever, but never cascaded, doesn’t work that way.

      Ol’ Bab, who was an engineer…

      • Loop

        Look at the VIDEO “1MW e-cat Demo Andrea Rossi – Original.mp4” he told to Indians that he could get higher temperature by joining cascading single units, but its extremely unstable and dangerous.
        By his own words he is calling it joining it in “series” 00:54:13

        Because of that fact I asked above question, regarding 1200core/720steam test done with one unit or with units in “series”.

        Thanks god the Indians video leaked to surface, because many things that Rossi flanked with the answers were brought up to the surface.

        • Omega Z


          A single core @1200`C can produce 720`C steam by itself. This is a major improvement over what was possible 7 months ago. When 1 core fed to a 2nd core which fed to a 3rd core. Each core required a separate control then required a control to control the controllers.

          Using a single core & 1 controller greatly improves stability & drastically reduces the cost.

          You could compare these cores to a car engine. Each cylinder works Independently, but provides power to the drive. Not in series, but parallel. Additional cores won’t provide higher temps, but increased volume of steam & pressure.

          Or compare to pushing your car up a slope. A 200# person applying 500# of push on a 3000# car. You need 6 people minimum & more is better. The same apples to driving a turbine with e-cats. It all about scale.

          Anyway, Most of what gets disgust here doesn’t matter. The E-cat has many short comings at this time. The biggest is that it takes an hour to ramp up & down. The ramp up being the real world problem.

          All these entities involved say things that don’t really work in the real World.

          Brillouin says it will have a unit within 2 years that will produce 1.5Kw. Enough to run the average home. NOT, NOT, NOT…

          It’s true the average home uses this amount every month, but that’s averaged over a month. The only way this would supply the average home is if you had a large array of storage batteries. One example here. 1.5 kw =1500 watts. A blow dryer uses about 1200 watts. Throw in a couple light bulbs & you’ve peeked your supply. Forget about the Refrigerator, TV, Computer, & everything else in your home that may be running at the same time.

          Also doesn’t matter that a 10Kw E-cat costs $600 to $1000. If the add-on Generator costs $30K, most can’t afford it.

          Doesn’t matter if Black Light develops a CIHT cell for cars & is cheap. It will take years to get the certifications.

          What does matter is that it works. It’s well suited at this time for Grid power quite possibly less centralized then today. This means less outages & cheaper utilities bills. Cheaper products. We all gain from it. With a few advances it may supply home heating at reduced costs. Improvements in old tech heat absorption systems & it may cool our homes.

          Most of what is speculated on here will take a several decades. A hundred years from now, People may look back & say it was a relatively fast transition. I compare it to the guy who gets injured. He was only in pain for a few minutes. To the injured guy it seemed like hours. That’s where we are today. It’s a matter of perspective.

          • Loop

            Listen you don’t need to explain me anything I know about each aspect you are talking about.

            Neither I need explanation how the cylinders work I know perfectly.

            My idea was to point to people that Rossi is not telling to public did he tested 1200c with one unit or with the units in series.

            • Omega Z

              Rossi has said his intent is to run each core independently. So I assume it was independent.

              As the temps are now pushing the limits, I would think it’s for a combination of flexibility to maintain a stable fluid temp output & to define a breaking point. A Set Red Line. That way you can engage a safety shut down instead of a failed unit. This would be very important to a customer. A need to know before they will commit.

              Just another test. Will have to wait for the small details.

  • dragonX

    “Brillouin has entered into its first international licensing agreement covering three nations and is involved in on-going negotiations for other potential international partners.”

    “The Brillouin™ revenue model is fee based. The plan centers on a strategy of global licensing and royalties. Qualified manufacturing firms would pay annual license fees and a percentage of sales on products using the technology. Markets will be addressed by segment:
    -Geographical Region
    -Application: hot water, steam heat, process heat
    -End User: residential, commercial, industrial
    -Thermal Output: Lowest Power to 600 Watts, Low Power 600 to 1 Kilowatt, -Mid Power 1 Kilowatt to 500 Kilowatts, High Power Over 500 Kilowatts.”

    • dragonX

      Anybody interested in following Robert E. Godes Twitter?

    • barty

      A bit off topic, but I find the designs of the most lenr-corporation websites very strange.
      I think this is a very important point to look serious!

      The looks like it was created in 20 min by a 13 year old youngster.

      • dragonX

        You are completely right:
        – Brilouin website is so 90′ (beginning of Internet)
        – Rossi does not even have a personal E-CAT website.
        – Defkalion has an empty shell of a website (mid 2000 like design)

        So the first 3 Cold Fusion contenders look awful on Internet.
        I wonder if it is on purpose, sometimes.

        • Omega Z

          These Web sites have filler. When a certified ready for market product is ready for mass production & sales, all the content will be changed.

          Even the Leonardo E-cat home site isn’t up to date. Why spend time & money making major changes when it’s all due to change multiple times before a market ready product is finalized. Even the 1Mw containers are made to order, so any information beyond the basics would be a waste of time & money.

          If an Entity is seriously interested, he will contact them & get up to date info. As things can change quickly at this point, This would be the natural & most cost & beneficial way to do it.

      • vbasic for PlasmErg has got to be the worst site of all them. And they’re supposed to be selling product in September. They claim that 3 national news organizations are competing to get the first interviews.

        • They probably all build their own, thinking they are brilliant. Generally speaking, inventors don’t seem to value the opinions or input of others very highly.

        • barty

          Yes, the most “free energy” sites are looking realy bad.

          There are very easy to install website applications available, like wordpress (this blog is also wordpress), joomla, phpBB or something else.
          You only need a 2$/month webspace and a ftp program.

          But they use the dirtiest way how you can use HTML…

        • artefact

          They said they get a new website in the next weeks.

    • GreenWin

      Interesting but neither Brillouin or Defkalion have done ONE public/semi-public/or documented demo of a commercial product (to my knowledge.) That is a red flag for investors and licensees. I expect they would have to before anyone but a moron would invest.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Update by Francesco Celani via Passerini (google translated), containing important corrections and additions to Krivit’s article:

    New Paper by Celani (in english):

    Cu-Ni-Mn alloy wires, with improved sub-micrometric surfaces, used as LENR device by new transparent, dissipation-type, calorimeter
    Francesco Celani, E. F. Marano, A. Spallone, A. Nuvoli, E. Purchi(, M. Nakamura, B. Ortenzi, S. Pella, E. Righi, G. Trenta, S. Bartalucci, G. L. Zangari, F. Micciulla, S. Bellucci.

    Abstract — Starting in February 2011, we studied the feasibility of new Nickel based alloys that are able to absorb proper amounts of Hydrogen (H2) and/or Deuterium (D2) and that have, in principle, some possibility to generate anomalous thermal effects at temperatures >100°C.
    The interest in Ni comes in part because there is the possibility to use H2 instead of expensive D2. Reports by F. Piantelli (since 1992), G. Miley (about 1995), M. Patterson, F. Celani (since 2010) and, overall, claims by A. Rossi and (later on) by Defkalion Company, could be further investigated. Moreover, cross-comparison of results using Hydrogen instead of Deuterium can be made and could help the understanding of the phenomena involved (nuclear origin?) because use of such isotopes.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Short summary of corrections/clarifications by Celani to Krivit’s article from Vortex-l mail archive:

      – Celani’s demo reactor was turned on for about 6 hours before NIWeek 2012 started, on Saturday

      – On Sunday the demo reactor was brought to the NIWeek 2012 hall where it got turned on before 12:00 and *still is working*, so for a total of 55 hours as of writing.

      – The reaction is stable. Peak excess heat power was 22W, currently stabilized at about 14W

      – Testing performed in front of a wide audience

      – Celani’s testing wire is made as a Cu-Ni-Mn alloy, a good sample which was already previously used 4 times by him at his labs in Frascati (Italy)

      • Francesco CH

        V I C T O R Y

        • Indeed. But will one word of this truly amazing breakthrough make it to the mainstream media? I seriously doubt it.

          • GreenWin

            At this stage, who cares? The masses have difficulty understanding hammers:)

    • So 14/22 W from one wire. Wind say 100 times the length of alloy wire onto a thin electrically insulating layer on a stainless steel tube, place the whole assembly within a slightly greater diameter s/s tube, seal the ends of the annulus and fill with hydrogen. Fire up the process and run a regulated flow of coolant though the inner tube, and voila! – a 1.4 to 2.2 kW LENR reactor. Multiply as required.

      • Ged

        This is an immensely scalable technology.

        • It is. Simplicity is always good in engineering. Celani just needs to work on the COP.

    • I wonder if manganese is Rossi’s ‘catalyst’?

      • Ged

        Magnesium is a HCP crystal (hexagonal close pack) like titanium. It has a lattice spacing range of 3.2-5.2 angstroms. Compare this to nickel’s FCC crystal and uniform 3.5 angstrom lattice space size.

        Since titanium seems to have reactions, it’s possible magnesium is useful. It depends on what a nickel-magnesium alloy would look like.

        Interestingly enough, nickel-magnesium alloy is used for hydrogen storage(!). this is at a 6.7% nickel to magnesium alloy ratio however; but seems such mixtures have a very high hydrogen absorbance.

  • barty

    New article by Daniele Passerini about Celani’s Demonstation at NIWeek:

    Google Translation:

    • Renzo

      thanks, I tried many times but today I can’t publish comments with links, it seems they get marked as spam

      Celani’s paper is at the end of the post and very interesting

      • Pachu

        And the file name of the paper includes: ICCF17, so kinda we get a full advance of ICCF-17 Celani’s presentation and demo.

        Literally at end of paper:
        “The experiment will be stopped on July 28 to
        package and “shipping” the reactor to USA (National
        Instruments Meeting at Austin-Texas) and later-on to
        Korea (ICCF17 Conference at Daejeon).”

        • Ged

          Running it in front of the NI crowd is ballsy, and impressive! Can’t get a more stringent atmosphere than the very lion’s den of experimental measurements and design.

          I am loving this, we so need some information on how this goes during NIWeek.

      • admin

        Posts with 2 or more links get sent for moderation. Usually there is no problem with multiple links, but sometimes they are a mark of spam.

  • Renzo

    Daniele Passerini writes that the article written by Krivit about Celani’s demo is incomplete, he has spoken with Celani by phone and will publish an important update soon

    • Krivit’s half truths – as usual. I hope you’ll copy the update or link here?

      • Renzo

        Published by Barty in the comment above.

        This time Krivit has made a good report, it was not a case of half-truth but the informations leaked were still incomplete

      • ..or perhaps you mean the link posted by Barty above?

        • Sorry – missed your reply before posting.

      • GreenWin

        Kirvit titled his story “LENR Gets Major Boost From National Instruments”

        Bold for an agency critic.

        • Actually it’s not to bad an article for Kermit (blame Timycelyn for that). Apart from the slight oversight of not mentioning Rossi at all, and a few other shortfalls in accuracy, that is.

  • Petrol

    At 1200c all of that transmuted copper becomes a puddle of goo. Either way I hope this shell game of objective third party validation tomorrow for the last I don’t know how many years ends soon one way or another.

    • Ged

      Actually, you are incorrect, because the copper would not be pure copper, it would be Nickel-Copper alloy. Nickel-Copper alloy is used in thermocouplers for instance.

      A Nickel-Copper alloy of 30% to 70% ratio, respectively, would have a melting temperature range of 1170-1240 C. However, this alloy created by the process in the E-cat (if nickel is being transmuted into copper as a side effect) would have a dominant nickel ratio, making the melting point above 1200 C.

      So, no problem at all on that end, unless more than 60% of all the nickel transmuted into copper, then you’d be dropping down towards 1200 C in melting temp; and once you hit 70% copper, you’d start to melt and the reaction would die. You could think of that as a fuel limit. However, I personally think the reaction is dominantly hydrogen fusion inside the nickel lattice, and any transmutations are a low rate byproduct.

      Ref: Table 4

      • Omega Z


        I asked Rossi about the Copper melting being a problem some time ago. His response was that the quantity was insignificant. No negative effect.

        Note: The Reason for 6 months run time for refill was the depletion of the secret Catalyst. Not the Nickel.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      At 1200c all of that transmuted copper becomes a puddle of goo.

      It’s a twofer, a valuable byproduct and ‘brain food’ for skeptics, called “GooGooClusters”.

  • Francisco

    I wonder if it would be possible to get the e-cat hot enough to turn nickel into a gas… If you can do that, then I bet there is no limit on how hot the e-cat could get.

    I guess you would need a way to contain that though. That may be difficult.

    • Ged

      I think that would defeat the purpose, since an intact metal lattice is required for the LENR effect (that is, solid metal).

      Once we have nickel gas, we’re talking about hot fusion, and now we have to deal with a whole different set of physical limitations and problems (kinetic based fusion: upwards of millions of degrees plasma, high pressure, etc).

      • Francisco

        I see… wishful thinking in my part.

        • Ged

          Who knows though, right? I haven’t heard of anyone trying to do fusion of hydrogen plasma within a nickel plasma. Could be a breakthrough for hot fusion applications 😉

  • bek

    There is a saying in program management, “It’s time to shoot the engineers so we can ship the system”.

    • dragonX

      For some strange reason… I like that a lot 🙂