More From Italy on Hidden LENR Activity [Updated]

Another interesting message has been posted on Daniele Passerini’s blog authored by a person going by the name of Vector who is providing some apparent ‘inside’ information about things going on connected with E-Cat technology in Italy. The whole post is quite long, but makes for interesting reading, even though we don’t, of course, have confirmation of what he is saying yet. Below I will include some excerpts from the post (translation courtesy of our faithful Google robot). The original Italian article can be seen here.

I, like Daniel (and a few others), we know (a lot ‘of time) of information on the E-Cat and LENR that have never been made ​​public. This information shows a picture of the situation much different than a little naive that “skeptics”, “believers” and “destructive” debate on blogs and forums. This information reveals unequivocally that what is said is real, and that there is a revolution at the gates! That’s a lot of serious people, and several large companies that are working assiduously, going on very quickly . . .

Do you remember the last demo of MegaCattone October? But you really believed that the “report” was that slip of paper with handwritten notes?!? Obviously that was not the actual report, indeed, several reports have been made, even by some of the companies that have attended. The results were still the same: the object works . . .

I want to tell a recent announcement that it will certainly be of interest to many: as a result of various events that followed the Conference of Deputies earlier this month , has formed a small group of researchers, including myself, who have intention to start a trial on LENR within the university. I want to perform experiments that were inspired by those of Piantelli / Focardi, of Celani and Iwamura . . . The objective of this trial, in addition to that more purely scientific of course, is also that of finding a secondary phenomenon as much as possible measurable, replicable and unambiguous manner, to use as a “smoking gun” to change the vision of the phenomena LENR by the scientific community.

There is more, including a rather harsh critique of the academic establishment in Italy, a community of which he seems to be a part. It would be great if the person would come forward with a positive identity in order provide some more credibility to this report, but the person may not feel comfortable coming forward publicly quite yet.

The rumblings of the rumor mill continue . . .

UPDATE: The post mentioned above has been removed from 22passi.blogspot.com AND it’s back again!

  • Job001

    Energy 100 times less expensive creates different economics.
    High efficiency expensive conversion will be not needed, silly, out, done, kaput!
    What will be needed is inexpensive electrical power.
    No heat engine or storage or electrical distribution system need apply.
    Good financial possibilities include safe light weight mobile thermoelectric or fuel cell generators.
    Advise patience; finance, research, patent, engineering, certification, finance, manufacturing, marketing;
    These steps all take time.

  • http://www.warpfusion.com Conrad

    http://www.cfcl.com
    These guys get 60% efficiency from gas – highest in the world.
    I wonder they could use this technology with steam??
    Comments please…

  • Chris

    Actually, the critique of “Vettore” isn’t only against the academic establishment in Italy, It’s the same the world over where funding gets contended between different research projects on different topics and then something new comes along, threatening to soak up all the funding that previous folks are vying for. It’s all in human nature.

    How many folks here watched the talk at CERN by Celani and Srivastava? Question time degenerated a bit, though surprisingly not as much as I might have expected.
    http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=177379

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    An English translation of Vector’s blogpost from 22passi got posted! Hurray!

    http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/07/not-everyone-knows-that-author-user.html

  • Kim

    Andrea Rossi says in September

    Inteligentry says in September

    Keshe says in September

    Anyone Else?

    Coincidence?

    Respect
    Kim

    • Supervisor

      Noble Gas and PESN says demo will July 27 at conference in Albuquergue

      • hammerskoj

        No running motor, only a mock.

        • artefact

          No, his brother seems to show a running gas motor there.

          • hammerskoj

            He will show a “popper”, that is a single action piston, without a repeatable loop.

      • hammerskoj

        From pesn.com, Bob Rohner direct quotation:
        ” …Nor will I now state we have “running” engines. But we have had many successful “Lab Experiments”.
        Till now vaporware. I am waiting to see the real thing running.

  • joe j

    This all smells of the usual buffoonery that surrounds this area of “research”.

  • timycelyn

    In case no one else has pointed it out (didn’t see this in a scan of posts) the 22 passi post by Vector is back again. Has anyone got an earlier copy to check for changes??

    • hammerskoj

      … new version is softer on e-cat test appraisal from experts and add info on academic research field.

    • Lu

      From my memory and looking at this post and the new pone, it looks like the newer one has additional details and has been reworked. Also some things have changed.

      For example,

      First: “…as a result of various events that followed the Conference of Deputies earlier this month…”

      Now: “…as a result of various events that have taken place since the beginning of the year…”

      OK, so now we have a mysterious Conference of Deputies!

      My guess is that the original post was somewhat haphazardly edited. It seemed to read that way but I thought it might be a product of the translation. It looks like a little more care has been done this time around. Technical difficulties led to the removal of the original post? Yeah, right.

      Still more or less the same, IMO. Good to see this though.

    • hammerskoj

      New in the new version:
      … they think that the very same ignition phenomenon is acting in various LENR devices, from NANOR to Brillouin, and are planning lab research to prove/disprove this thesis. The topic is said of utmost theoretical importance.

  • GreenWin

    “That’s a lot of serious people, and several large companies that are working assiduously, going on very quickly . . .”

    There is MUCH activity in the home micro-CHP arena. Here is a very small Siemens AG Combined Heat and Power unit in development:

    https://www.siemens.com/press/en/presspicture/?press=/en/presspicture/pictures-photonews/2009/pn200901.php

    NONE of these products use LENR heat at present. Utilizing as much thermal energy as possible is the goal of CHP technology. AR is looking at direct conversion of heat to electrical (eg beta/plasma decay.) This is ideal. But near term, with just two components: LENR heat and a Stirling cycle engine/generator – we can achieve high efficient thermal and electrical production. Competing with e-cat LENR is Blacklight’s CIHT, Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (burning H2) and whatever Brillouin can deliver.

    Even the grumpy old US EPA has taken a shine to micro-CHP for the home. With EPA and UK, Japan, German governments ALL subsidizing de-centralized CHP technology – “certification” should be less an issue.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      >AR is looking at direct conversion of heat to electrical

      What if… as suggested by a JONP poster, Ni-H cells can be used directly as an electrical battery? Like chemical Ni-H batteries, I mean. What would happen then, when excess heat is triggered? Would the cell recharge itself?

      We could have self-recharging electrical batteries!
      Just thinking outside the box.

      • Supervisor

        You want 600°C batteries (less some percentage after conversion) in your Canon digital camera ?

      • GreenWin

        Most SOFC (Oxide Fuel Cells) operate at or near 600C. Blacklight’s CIHT cell same. And ordinary FC’s operate at high temps. But for portable energy chemical storage remains the obvious choice.

        George Miley Univ Illinois, DOD, etc. has worked on plasma capture technology with fission systems. Presumably this approach could work for LENR plasma as well.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          We need the ‘Starlite’ insulating material more and more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlite). Maybe someone of an experimental nature could put some Ni-NiH cells in various intense EM fields and see what happens!

  • Kim

    This may be a little of topic
    but has perspective to the E-cat.

    Intelligentry will demonstrate to public
    in Sept.

    If it runs per specs. Rossi’s E-cat will
    be a mute point.

    Respect
    Kim

    • georgehants
      • Lu

        “Our agreements with our licensees, who all want to be part of the “Public Showing Party”, means we can not run it. But it is complete as it sits. ”

        Why am I not surprised?

      • giro

        I looked on their website, but it does not convince me at all. IMHO the explanation of how this engine should work is crazytalk, and they talk about generating energy out of nothing, with infinite horsepower, no heat, no maintenance, etc…

        If something seems too good to be true… it probably is too good to be true.

    • dfnj

      Has anyone seen it run yet?

      • artefact

        In the new video he says they want to demonstrate it in september when all producers are ready and have working engines and not before…

  • georgehants

    If Rossi comes across with the goods, somebody could make a lot of cash selling pre-printed resignation forms and suicide notes.
    If everybody in science who has dismissed Cold Fusion takes the expected and honorable action, then their will be thousands of empty jobs for our bright and hopefully, free from Dogma, brilliant, young scientists to make more worthwhile change than the old school has ever done.

    • dfnj

      Unlike religious zealots and cultists, scientists generally do not care if they are wrong. That’s kind of the whole point of science is to get someone else to make you a liar.

      Frank, si prega di interrompere il software dal censura i miei commenti.

    • GreenWin

      “Seppuku is ideally committed in a garden or a Buddhist temple (Shinto temples should not be defiled by death) or an academic office. The participant dresses in white, to express purity of intention and sits in the seiza position (legs drawn up under the body so that one is actually sitting on one’s heels).”

      An honorable way for skeptopaths to retire.

  • Thomas Paign

    To address those who believe that the e-cat will bring immediate economic salvation, I’d argue that confirmation of ecat/lenr, and legitimate commercialization, will be a black swan event. What happens to the worldwide banking system when long dated oil futures drop to $40 a barrel, followed by a slow decline go $17? Along with the sharply dropping values of collateralized energy sector property, equipment, & other assets? The European banks can barely meet their capital reserve ratios as it is. Wait until they have these assets to mark to market if commercial LENR is real. That all being said, I sincerely hope Rossi is for real, but I remain an open minded skeptic.

    • Luca Salvarani

      Absolutely right. In past posts I’ve explained in detail that a rapid diffusion of a cheap domestic heating and electric e-cat would undermine several financial assets… first of all not oil, but shares and bonds of many old energy companies and the many other companies whom work for them… Another effect would be a massive structural jobs destruction… I know few people here could trust me because they don’t get all this mechanism and it’s premature to point out now… In the future we’ll speak about this in detail and I could write an entire explanatory post as well.

      • Jack

        Come on. Did electricity create destruction? Did steam engine? Yea, many things in its current state get disrupted. As they get by IT, the web, etc. But they are gonna transform, not get destroyed. The opposite is true – there will be much more time for more productive activities and much more capital to invest into things that were unimaginable before. Old structures will be disrupted, that also means the politicians mafia, etc. Yea, there is a risk, when powerful groups experience their own disruption, it can use its heaviest weapons to try to stop that. That means there is quite another risk of politicians mafia, oil barons and illuminati bringing war on us. Since they surely won’t like us to get independent, of them. That means, watch out for the London Olympics where there is a high risk of false flag operation, an artificial terror attack. Their time is running out and they gonna kick. I advice Mr. Rossi to speed up all activities since we might all loose the final battle by a hair.

      • Stephen Taylor

        When you start writing don’t forget the stimulus side of the equation! As has been said here and elsewhere so many times it barely needs repeating there are likely more positives than negatives if the sums are done thoroughly.

        • Luca Salvarani

          To Stephen and Jack

          It’s far more complicated than it appears and to explain this a full post will be necessary. For now take this matter apart, when e-cat will enter in the market we will speak about it. Only one thing: I’m fully awere of the ENORMOUS benefits of e-cat but you don’t consider the transformations that it entails. For ex. you Jack have mentioned technology, web ecc… all of these have been destroying MILLIONS of jobs, even in the US! Of course they are good things but many people are going to be permanently displaced by them so without a regular income source they absolutely don’t benefit from a drop in energy prices.. In the same way in the US there were a lot of people in the textile industry even a decade ago: few of them were able to find another job and the remaining don’t benefit from low wage in China and so low cost t-shirts… This is an example of a positive change: more things, cheaper and better.. but this process cause some people getting poorer. With e-cat this will happen to a lot of people, more than those displaced by housing bubble: they will pay less for energy but without a job and so an income it won’t be very funny.

          • georgehants

            Luca, sorry to butt in.,
            You seem to be under the illusion that everybody must have a job.
            Advances in technology and production once a fair standard of living for all is archived, simply mean that many can be put out of “normal” work to enjoy life and help others.
            Many are once again, as with Cold Fusion living in the past.
            Capitalism has served it’s purpose, now time to move on to a system that shares productivity fairly to everyone.

            • Luca Salvarani

              To Geo

              Good point, congratulations! I’m aware of this. But that change will require a lot of time and will be extremely costly. You should also expect that people who benefit from tech advancements won’t want to share their benefits with people displaced and there are many ways to do so: for example capital and people mobility from one country to another one and the US has been greatly taking advantage of this taking our and other best minds. You should also create a system that encourage people to get out of welfare: Germany is wery effective in this but the US and expecially Obama are creating a welfare trap where many people won’t have the right incentive to go away from welfare… For example we could pay energy half of the current price here in Italy if simply our government would waste less… so this is possibile right now, without an energy revolution but it doesn’t happen… Don’t take productivity share for granted, it’s not at all! If your idea is government keeps spending to help losers it won’t ever work, we need another model, totally different! In my opinion the private is far more effective in helping poors and create opportunities for them but these processes would lower the people faith in the free market. By the way Rossi one is a free market solution.

          • Stephen Taylor

            Luca Salvarani,
            I do see your points and have spent much time wondering about this progress and how will it end. Ray Kurzweil and others have interesting points of view. You may enjoy reading “The Lights in The Tunnel” by Martin Ford. He offers a free download here: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com

            It is all about the economy of the future, advancing technology, job automation, outsourcing and globalization. I’m sure you will enjoy it, perhaps you already have.

            • Luca Salvarani

              To Stephen

              Exactly! I’ve already read it twice and appreciate it a lot because it uses a free market point of view! It was written 3-4 years ago and might be too moderate in its foresights (for example obviously it doesn’t even contemplate e-cat: with low-cast energy automation will be much more cheaper than now). My only difference is the final proposal: not more state, absolutely NOO! (it’s already too much, expecially here in Italy and Europe) but private solutions like Rossi one, or free e-learning by MIT and other private top universities… they are solving enormous problems that governments aren’t able to do even with billions of dollar… In the light of Ford’s ideas can you forsee a massive job displacement due to e-cat or not? Thanks anyway.

      • AB

        Yes, a lot of companies will go bankrupt, but there will also be unprecedent optimism that will stimulate the economy.

      • GreenWin

        At one time most every household burned coal in their furnace and fireplaces. Then came Edison and Tesla and ruined everyone’s lives with electricity… except they weren’t ruined. And as we know well, there are STILL coal mining JOBS all over the world.

    • http://N/A Daniel

      I’ll tell you what happens. I make a killing shorting those contracts. Why is it that people always think that the only way to make money in the market is to have a long position? If a Banks exposure of it’s investment arm of the firm takes a hit so be it. That is what you call risk. It’s ashame that banks are even using deposits to invest with, unfortunately people aren’t very financially educated about banks and why they have allowed law makers to allow banks to play with their hard earned cash. The safest place to keep your money is with demand deposit. Or you could keep it off shore in banks that don’t fritter away your deposit. Lot’s of respectable banks offer a safe alternative to actually keep your money giving you a respectable one percent. Giving the global wealth to the Saudi’s isn’t in our best interest, is it? Don’t think so. They are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. JMO

  • artefact

    I just looked at the iccf17 program and could not see Defkalion at first.
    But they changed the timetable a bit.
    They are now on stage on 16th of August at 15 to 15:30 after the University of Missouri! and on 17th of August like before.

    There are also names now for the 17th commercialization part. One name is Thomas W. Grimshaw. I can not remember if it was mentioned allready. I found:

    Dr. Grimshaw received the Masters degree (mid-career option) – and subsequently served as adjunct faculty – at UT’s LBJ School of Public Affairs. His professional report was on evidence-based public policy toward cold fusion as a major (but controversial) potential source of energy. As adjunct faculty he was co-instructor for two policy research projects, both of which focused on energy policy and emerging technologies. He was also instructor for a course in environmental policy. Dr. Grimshaw is currently leading an initiative at UT’s Center for International Energy and Environmental Policy for developing policies for dealing with secondary impacts of potential broad deployment of cold fusion as a major energy source.
    ..
    • Cold fusion development, sociology of science, paradigm-shifting discoveries, technology applications
    ..

    at http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-w-grimshaw-ph-d/2b/1b9/42b

    • T Lee Buyea – Fla. News Service Miam

      Where arw the 20 claimed operating high temperature E-Cats?
      Where is the secret factory?
      Reality is Not Secret

      • artefact

        if i could post a fish you would get one

      • Ged

        Ever try to break into a military base? Reality has plenty of secrets.

  • georgehants

    From PsyBlog.
    Have you ever wondered why society hardly ever changes? I think most of us have.
    One answer is that humans have a mental bias towards maintaining the status quo. People think like this all the time. They tend to go with what they know rather than a new, unknown option.
    People feel safer with the established order in the face of potential change. That’s partly why people buy the same things they bought before, return to the same restaurants and keep espousing the same opinions.
    This has been called the ‘system justification bias’ and it has some paradoxical effects
    “Society’s tendency is to maintain what has been. Rebellion is only an occasional reaction to suffering in human history: we have infinitely more instances of forbearance to exploitation, and submission to authority, than we have examples of revolt.” (Zinn, 1968)
    http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/07/why-society-doesnt-change-the-system-justification-bias.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PsychologyBlog+%28PsyBlog%29

    • GreenWin

      Excellent George. There is little doubt that people accept programming and “structure.” But this is also the human’s Achilles heel – exploited by the nefarious.

      Boston University Professor Howard Zinn – who animated much of the 60s counter cultural thinking in the US with his 20 books on Political Science – explains it well. Authority in 20th century became skilled in propaganda (Nazi Goebbles e.g.) They now employ professional “skeptics” to ridicule those who think and act out of the prescribed box.

      “The dividing line between the skeptics and those in favor [of LENR] is that those in favor have worked, have focused on experimental or theoretical aspects, while the skeptics are just pontificating. Pontificating without engaging, without seeing the experimental reality of this system, and of cold fusion in general. Pontificating in an arrogant way: they do not have the humility to recognize that. Moreover, physics and chemistry are experimental sciences, this must be emphasized.

      It is not the model which prevails – the model follows, being the product of our brain – what prevails is the experimental evidence, that is what counts. Otherwise, science would still be at the neanderthalensis level!” Professor Christos Stremmenos, University Bologna

    • Luca Salvarani

      Sorry geo but I miss the link with lenr or e-cat. What do you want to say exactly?

      • georgehants

        Luca,Perhaps a reason why Cold Fusion and many other proven subjects are rejected by the people in authority, who are psychologically challenged in excepting Truth and Evidence.
        Things may be better all round if these people are weeded out of responsible positions in the establishment.

        • Luca Salvarani

          Ok now I understand, thank you.

  • Renzo

    Daniele has posted a message that the post is offline for technical reasons and will be back online in a few hours

  • Joseph Fine

    Perhaps, a new post is about to be added. Check back with 22Passi in about twenty minutes and it may be back.

    -Joseph

    It actually says:

    Spiacenti. La pagina del blog che cerchi non esiste.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      The post announcement in the notice board (“BACHECA”) is still up. Maybe it will be re-uploaded later. If the announcement disappears as well, then we’ll know it’s definitely gone. Still wondering why, though. Maybe it contained some information that wasn’t supposed to be posted at this time.

      The RSS notification system makes this pointless though. I have the original message in my mailbox 🙂

      • AB

        I complained somewhat harshly about concluding the article containing only unverifiable information with the phrase “at this point, only the facts matter” (or something to that extent).

        Who knows, maybe the author is going to take this to heart and release an updated version with actual information.

        • Lu

          I read your comment and it was polite and spot on. I don’t think it had anything to do with the removal of the post.

        • Ged

          I hope you’re right. Love to get some leaked hard info.

  • AB

    The 22passi post is gone now.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Gone for me too. I wonder why?
      Have you saved a copy to check for differences in case it appears again?

    • hammerskoj

      WE HAPPY READERS, We few, we happy few, we band of brothers …

      • GreenWin

        Ha ha! Nice.

    • Renzo

      If Vettore has said too much he should know it is too late. The web doesn’t forgive

  • Jacob

    I don’t believe anything unless I see and touch it.
    Thomas

    • Jim

      So you don’t believe in the other planets in the solar system? How about Hydrogen? Do you not believe in that?

      • Alexvs

        Planets, hydrogen… These have been evidenced, measured and their properties thoroughfully established by thousands of people who have devoted their lives to the science what you can not say by no means about E-Cat.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Yours must be a rather small world.

    • Barry

      Doubting Thomas, the majority of the universe is invisible. So are human emotions and thoughts.

    • Miles

      Not the type of forum for Non-Believers.

      Personally, I’m excited as this a new revolutionary science for our planet. These are exciting times and I hope that more positive news will come in the coming months. Stay tuned.

  • GreenWin

    “That’s a lot of serious people, and several large companies that are working assiduously, going on very quickly . . .”

    There is MUCH activity in the home micro-CHP arena. Here is a very small Siemens AG Combined Heat and Power unit in development:

    https://www.siemens.com/press/en/presspicture/?press=/en/presspicture/pictures-photonews/2009/pn200901.php

    Recently a micro-turbine CHP product:

    http://www.epicos.com/EPCompanyProfileWeb/Content/MTT_Micro_Turbine_Technology/MTT%20micro%20CHP%20sales%20presentation%20April%202010.pdf

    And London’s Shard, the tallest building in the EU, produces 1.1MW of electrical and 1.1MW hot water (combined efficiency of 85%):

    http://www.cospp.com/articles/2012/07/ges-chp-technology-fuelling-london-shard.html

    And the UK’s guv DECC is putting a lot of new support behind micro-CHP:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/williampentland/2012/07/20/micro-chp-gets-boost-in-great-britain/

    NONE of these products use LENR heat at present. Utilizing as much thermal energy as possible is the goal of CHP technology. AR is looking at direct conversion of heat to electrical (eg beta/plasma decay.) This is ideal. But near term, with just two components: LENR heat and a Stirling cycle engine/generator – we can achieve high efficient thermal and electrical production. Competing with e-cat LENR is Blacklight’s CIHT, Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (burning H2) and whatever Brillouin can deliver.

    Even the grumpy old US EPA has taken a shine to micro-CHP for the home. With EPA and UK, Japan, German governments ALL subsidizing de-centralized CHP technology – “certification” should be less an issue:

    https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=pt_awards.pt_emerging_technologies

  • Johannes Hagel

    Thinking of actual developments in Italy (and others) concerning financial crisis and economical destabilization would it not be extremly important to show to everyone that there is a way out, namely LENR? So why not opening everything just now? I am not at all expert in economic questions but it appears to me that selling working LENR units (and obviously they DO exist) should bring lots of money to consolidate budgets and faciltate arrangements of debts. Or am I mistaken? So WHY nothing happens in this direction?

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      I think 22passi author Vettore is telling us that despite appearances suggesting the opposite, much is happening behind the lines to bring the LENR reality out and possibly solve at least partially the economic crisis problem in Italy and the rest of the eurozone.

    • Luca Salvarani

      To Johaness Hagel

      Since I’m specialized in corporate finance and have what we call “an informed opinion” I can answer to you: I don’t think LENR could help Italy so much! Since you are german I think that Germany could get far more benefits than us from lenr and increase its (fully deserved) competitive advantage; this will empower its economy and lower the costs of its welfare benefiting all german people. Of course this technology could be a great success and bring great advantages to people but our (italian) problems have very very little to do with energy. As an italian let me to say you with zero doubts that your very moderate in my view, prime minister ms. Merkel, and expecially the minister Roessler and the Bundesbank, are totally right about us and the other piigs. For Germany sake I hope it leaves as soon as possible the folly of EU and Euro. My answer it’s totally serious, there’s no jokes.

      • Francesco CH

        The euro is the problem of Italy. As Italian, I would be very happy to see Italy exiting from euro and returning to issue its own sovereing currency.

        ps

        Just to be precise: the Italian production was above the German production until the introduction of the euro.

        • Luca Salvarani

          To Francesco

          Sorry my friend but you don’t really know what you’re speaking about. Without the euro shield we would have surely defaulted YEARS ago: not only the state but all our financial and industrial system! Speaking about economy I can only hope you’re joking: there’s a huge competitive gap between us and Germany and it’s growing every year from many years… this also holds for ALL others piigs and it’s not a cohincidence. Every single macroeconomic study or acedemic/market research clearly shows this. For example look at the ease of doing business index: we are at the 87th place in the world under many african and south american countries! Is it also a euro fault? Be serious please! Our country is a laughing stock in all the developed world: we have the highest taxation amond OECD countries in exchange of thirld world public services, we have a ridicolous justice, in this years we have been receaving zero net foreign investments so are all companies in the world went mad? I could continue for hours and the most incredible thing is that you can say with no shame and no laught that the euro is our problem… I have no words at all. I apologise with our german friends, for all insults that you have been receiving… but these insults would help you to pick the righr choice: let Italy and other communist economically disfuncional european countries to fail! Dear Francesco the reality is just the iopposite: piigs of course want the euro, because without it no country in the world would accept liras or dracmas for their services or products… for example no one would accept liras for oil or gas or ipad… so good luck Francesco. For example Greece for years has been saying we will leave the euro… but they doesn’t already letf it despite a sort of civil war… and do you know why? Because without euro they would stay much much worse! If you are not an expert I can understand you since 99% of italians think so and there’s an enourmous disinformation but this is the true and every indipendneit source (academic research, market research, academis studies… even our own Banca d’Italia say these things loud and clear)… so wake up please and smell the coffee.

          • AB

            I blame religion for imprinting a picture of authority figures onto society, in which the authorities are not to be questioned or held accountable. As a result, authority figures (politicians mostly or rich) in Italy can get away with far too much and the result is an inefficient economy and government that are mostly tailored for the benefit of a few.

            • Filip47

              Italians are very proud and smart people and the smartest of them leave their country.

          • Filip47

            I couldn’t state it more clearely. Corruption is the biggest problem in Italy. I know Italians whom escaped from Italy because it was impossible to even run a simple restaurant.

            • Luca Salvarani

              1) Exactly! Here in the north of italy there’s little corruption but we must obey to national laws and there are so complicates, contracdictory ecc… that’s impossible to run a simple bar or restaurant.. so it’s not a cohincidence that we have receaved ZERO net foreign investment for years on the contrary not only Germany but nearly all european countries, even Spain, haev gotten a lot…
              2) It’s not a cohincidence that Rossi to develop his idea have had to escape from Italy and go in USA and he’s working with german Siemens… We have a lot of clever anf tough guys but they simply can’t work at all here!

              • admin

                Interesting discussion, but we may be getting a bit off topic here …

          • Luca Salvarani

            To Amnin

            You’re right, I apologize!

            • Filip47

              me too
              Francesco, don’t forget to breath 🙂

          • Francesco CH

            “Every single macroeconomic study or acedemic/market research clearly shows this.”

            Yes. And the reason is? The euro.

            I do perfectly know what I am talking about. And I am very serious about that.

            And it very strange that an Italian DOES NOT KNOW that one of the most important schools of macroeconomics that perfectly illustrates what I am writing about is the MONETARY CIRCUIT, because CIRCUITISM has extensively been developed in Italy.

            “Without the euro shield we would have surely defaulted YEARS ago”

            This is completely nonsense. A nation that issues a sovereign currency can always avoid defaults. A sovereign currency is not just a national currency. This money:

            1) has to be issued by a nation whose public debt is totally issued in that currency (=no public debt issued in foreign currencies)

            2) has to be completely free to exchange in the FX market (=currency market), ie NO PARITY like EMS (European Monetary System) or like Argentine peso-US dollar (a disaster for Argentine)

            3) has to be issue only to national instituions, of course

            In this case a nation can ALWAYS avoid defaults.

            The risk of default is product of the euro, without the euro the risk of default for Italy would be ZERO.

            “we have the highest taxation amond OECD countries in exchange of thirld world public services”

            Yes, and the reason is the euro. Without the euro, Italy could simply SLASH DOWN taxation.

            From what I can ready from your comments you have no idea at all about how the contemporary economic system works.

            In the contemporary economic system, which is not feudalism or communism, there is ONLY ONE THING THAT REALLY COUNTS: production.

            Capitalism is based on production. We live in what macroeconomists call a “monetary economy of production”. In this system money is just functional to production.

            The problem of the euro is that it destroys the circuit of money and production.

            And there is a huge difference between Italy and Greece. Greece has a scarcity of production, Italy has the second highest prodution of the eurozone after Germany.

            This is a crucial point. The real value of a currency is given by the value of the PRODUCTION of the nation that issues that currency. Therefore, the value of an hypothetical Greek currency would be necessary low. Instead, the value of an hypotethical Italian currency would not be low, because that currency would simply reflect the value of the Italian production.

            If Italy exits from the euro, the maximum devaluation would be about 20% (source: Nomura). Is this a tragedy? Well, the euro devaluated, from 1.60 dollar per 1 euro to 1,25 dollar per 1 euro, ie the euro DEVALUATED 35%: did you notice that?

            All the data show that Italy now has the same situation it had in 1992. In 1992 Italy had its currency pegged to the German mark through the EMS (European Monetary System). Italy went out and devaluated. The devaluation was about 20% And guess what happened to the inflation rate? Well, inflation DECREASED from 5% to 4%, for the simple reason that Italy increased its production. Italy exited immediately from recession.

            And this time will be the same, if only Italy decides to exit from the euro.

    • Francesco CH

      The economic crisis in Europe is a crisis generated exclusively by the currency, ie the euro which is disfunctional to production and real economy in general.

      I do hope that the European peoples become quickly aware of that. Otherwise all the European civilisation will come to an end, sooner or later.

      • Luca Salvarani

        Read my post above please and think about it… The reality is far different from what you think and appear at people without economic and financial background. There are huge vested interest to not allow people to fully understand this: it’s easier for them to accuse Germany, BCE, 9/11, aliens… all in order to not account for their disaster (expecialy politics and great well connected entrepreneurs)

        • Francesco CH

          Did I wrote that the euro is the result of a plot?

          I did not wrote that, for the simple fact that I do not need to write it. There is a simple fact: Italian production was above the German production before the euro, now the Italian production is DISINTEGRATED. In the same period the German production skyrocked for a simple reason: salary dumping. Ergo, Germany devaluated the wages of their workers in order to kill the copetition from the other nations of the eurozone, Italy included.

          As Italian, it is really unconceivable form me how the German workers accepted such a theft to their respect with the HARTZ IV.

          In any case, the end of the path is clear: progressively reducing the wages of the European worker uo to Cinese levels. Noting that this process DESTROYS the internal market, so in the end Germany will dip into recession too.

          • Luca Salvarani

            1) I never say that you write that the euro is the result of a plot: I’m simply saying that our problem have absolutely nothing to do with euro! Just the opposite: euro has prevent our final default!
            2) About salaries you are absolutely wrong! Absolutely! This is another propaganda wery popular here in Italy for the simple reason pointed out above! First of all many other countries have been doing very well within Euro (Netherlands, Austria, Finland… all those that have reorganised their states and disfuntional economies and it’s not a cohincidence). Salary dump? what are you taking about?! The average german worker earn more than dougbe of an average italian worker and they are working less hours than us… Why? Very simple: a much greater productivity, less expensive and effective government services, less taxation, more competitition in nearly every market so things are cheaper and the same nominal wage has a greater purchase power… For example Germany is far more richer than us but their homes are significantly less expensive than ours… this is an economic folly that has nothing to do with euro and determines high bills for our families. The same for nerly all other things for example energy: more than half of our energy bills are TAXES! due to our damned public employees and unions… all at the expense of people who really works… Germany is doing fine expecially for his superior technology in production and final products… their automaker can double their workers wage right now and anyway beat any competition thanks to productivity: in the manufacturing field the cost of labour is a little fracion of the final price so it doesn’t explain their great competitivity. You blame euro maybe for the inactuability of devaluation: with devaluation you think that we could regain competitivity because foreign buyers would pay less for our products… but there’s a little problem: you also would pay far more for your import (for example oil, gas, all commodities price will skyrocket if you use liras..) Look at those sites and you’ll have all the answers, not trust establishment’s disinformation.

            • Francesco CH

              You are simply NOT INFORMED.

              Ask to a German reader of this website if the German wages incresed or decreased with the HARTZ IV: all the studies show a clear reduction of wages. It was a SALARY DUMPING.

              Moreover: the cost of all the imports of oil for Italy is about 1.5% of the Italian national GDP, ie NOTHING in real terms.

              Your fears are simply without economic fundamentals.

              But I am pleased to note that you still got the myth of the Aryan race:

              “Germany is doing fine expecially for his superior technology”

              and this is interesting, because I lived in Berlin and I was not able to find a single person there who had the myth of the aryan race like you have.

      • Francesco CH

        Ooops: “dysfunctional”, not “disfunctional” (sorry, wrong spelling)

        • Luca Salvarani

          I was so angry for the brain wash they have been doing to you that I also made a lot of errors.. Su Chicago blog o NoisefromAmerica trovi un sacco di articoli semplicissimi e chiarissimi che smontano in 3 secondi le idiozie che giornali e tv vomitano in continuazione. Anche se per adesso la pensi diversamente dacci una lettura ok, fidati che scoprirai tutto un nuovo mondo!

          • Francesco CH

            I perfectly know the economic thought of Oscar Giannino. I wrote to Oscar Giannino, and he kindly replied.

            He is an exquisite person. Unfortunately, he is not able to undestand the basics of modern economics.

  • hammerskoj

    Now I wait Giancarlo Ruocco narking the last 22passi contribute to Italian Department of Education and asking for charge and removal of the anonymous author, guilty of lese-majesty toward official academic beliefs.
    For analogy see:
    http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/05/questo-punto-che-il-miur-si-attivi-in.html

  • Sojourner Soo

    Here’s my favorite environmentalist and Canadian scientist. He’s an international icon. His name is David Suzuki. Enjoy the presentation.
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23015301

  • s

    What I’ve always found interesting is that in these days of almost constant anonymous leaks for various subjects, there hasn’t been one posting of anything which shows conclusively that LENR works as these individuals claim. Instead, the story is anonymous posters giving even more unverified claims to add to the ones already out there. It would be great if the admin would stop posting every unverified rumor as a new story. It has been around 9 months since we have been given data that we can analyze. In over a year and a half, we have not been given any data taken and certified by a reputable independent 3rd party to verify the claims.

    • georgehants

      I think most people on this page are very happy with the coverage of Rossi and Cold fusion.
      It is all just part of the story on the way to – Well who knows.
      If you wish for peer reviewed coverage, restrict your viewing to main-line science, then you will not have read a word on Cold Fusion since the destruction of P&F, and probably won’t for many years yet.
      23 years and counting.

      • Ged

        There are mainline peer-reviewed publications, and some have been posted on this site. One was in Elsevier, for instance, that I posted long ago; showing experimentally deuterium/palladium cold fusion. Can’t get more mainline than that journal conglomerate!

        There are a lot more LENR publications in the research world than people are realizing it seems. It didn’t die with the media backlash against P&F.

        • georgehants

          Ged, I did forget to add, “excepting the few brave rebels in the science community.”
          I as usual was taking a generalised view, that the vast majority of science deny’s and debunks Cold Fusion, especially Rossi.

          • Ged

            They must be brave fellows indeed, regrettably. But that tide is turning. One can only hold back the weight of so much evidence for so long.

    • Ged

      There have been many posting showing LENR works. Did you forget the EU report that says its no longer in doubt? Or NI saying there’s scientific 180 publications unequivocally showing it, and that after independently themselves verifying Dr. Kim’s ELTB results, they too are convinced? Have you read any of the scientific, peer-review, published papers on the matter, like Dr. Edmund Storms great review? Seen the micrographs of the palladium metal after LENR as taken by ENEA?

      Rossi’s version of LENR is different from most of those above, which are primarily deuterium fusion in palladium, being hydrogen in nickel. There is less support for that brand of LENR.

    • mcloki

      Doing so would out you as the leaker almost immediately. If you were sitting on a potential gold mine would you risk it? Or would you stay silent and stay on board and profit from it?

      It’s nice to be an internet star to LENR bloggers everywhere. It’s better to be rich.

      • GreenWin

        mcloki – consider with LENR neutron transmutation “a gold mine” may no longer be worth its weight;) Still, better to be rich.

    • s

      Look, I’ve mentioned many times I believe LENR works. I also believe Rossi probably has something that might work. The question is whether it is ready for commercialization and ready to compete with natural gas. I haven’t seen clear evidence of that yet. For something to work and for something to work well enough to be marketable are two separate things. Solar energy clearly works but that hasn’t stopped many solar energy companies from going out of business.

      • Ged

        I think you misspoke in your original post about not seeing one posting that LENR works. Or maybe you were meaning to be most specific with the “as these individuals claim”. That’s the only part I was taking issue with. The rest and what you say here I totally agree with (other than I enjoy the admin’s posts, so don’t think he should stop).

        • s

          I said “as these individuals claim” which means high power(<1Kw) at high COP for long periods of time. I give low power LENR and high power LENR for short durations the benefit of the doubt.

  • georgehants

    Andrea Rossi
    July 26th, 2012 at 7:10 AM
    Dear Luca Salvarani:
    1- I referred to an extremely important test made at 1 000 C.
    2- I think above 1 000 Celsius is useless and very expensive for the kind of the materials that would be necessary. We already use very expensive materials, I would say extreme materials, some of them invented because they do not exist in commerce.
    3- Thye domestic apparatus issue is exclusively bound to the certification: while the product is ready, it is unthinkable to put it in commerce without a certification.
    Thank you for your very kind attention,
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • Lu

    Well I read the entire translated blog post, and to be truthful, can find nothing really new here. More drama and opinion but very few facts of note. Anybody?

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      As I see it:

      – The poster, a long time 22passi reader/commenter is a sort of insider (has CMNS list access, he’s working on LENR devices, etc). He is confident, knowing confidential information (along with Passerini), that very soon there will be very good news about LENR science.
      – Much of the background behind certain happenings are unknown to the internet public and might seem/have seemed nonsense and weird to their eyes.
      – Some misc. tidbits (for example, the Rossi Oct. 1MW report wasn’t the true one).
      – After the meeting in Montecitorio palace in Rome (Italian Parliament) he formed a study group with other university professor/researchers to find and expose a scientific “smoking gun” for the the validity of LENR as proper science, basing on Piantelli/Focardi, Celani and Iwamura works, so that it can’t be dismissed anymore as pseudo/pathological science.
      – Other groups are doing the same?

      • Lu

        Thanks Ivan. It’s pretty much what I read/inferred but nothing really new or surprising. I guess it’s good to hear that someone considered an insider is so positive, but (yawn) we’ve heard that before.

        I’m waiting for the test results from Defkalion in August and Rossi in September. That’s something (data) that we’ve as yet haven’t seen. Also Peter Gluck is due to release something about Defkalion which should be interesting.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        It may be only hearsay, but it does ring true, even through the translation process. Its another pebble in a pile that is growing quite large – I think that any outcomes other than the emergence of viable CF power systems within months now have fairly negligible probabilities.

        The suggestion that much of what we blog followers may think we know is way off mark certainly feels right. Hopefully we mushrooms may soon see a little daylight.

        • GreenWin

          Ah, but do not sell shrooms short Peter! They are brave enough to grow in the dark.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Nice one!

  • Lu

    Today I believe Rossi’s high-termperature tests have hit the 90 day mark. Maybe not for all tests and maybe +/- 1 day but Rossi should be about there.

    • Ged

      Oh right, he couldn’t release information on it till the longevity test was done, anyways. Expressions of time are probably the most arduous to translate across languages, and even within a language.

      • Lu

        Yes I thought his 90 days was kind artificial if that is what you mean. But the 90 days is pretty specific and I suppose one can infer that these tests are winding down.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          100 is a more psychologically significant number if publicity is the object of the game.

          • Lu

            Except Rossi mentioned 90, I believe.

        • Omega Z

          These tests will never stop. Only short periods of time to collect data, then continue running. As per say Rossi…

          My take is these 20 cores are a test bed & only stop temporarily to switch core charges for examination. These 20 cores are being tested for longevity & data collection & may continue for years.

          The Info we’re supposed to receive about them will still happen.

  • Luca Salvarani

    Rossi on his blog has pointed out what seems to me a GREAT NEWS:

    “The domestic E-Cat to make also electric power is on his way, we are studying for it a direct conversion system, because it is unthinkable to make in a house a Carnot Cycle. We got very good advise in the USA fir this. The technology is not ready, though, but we are working on it. Anyway, same problems as for the heating E-Cat will rise under the point of view of the certifications”

    • Renzo

      I like it. My wish is for a heating-electricity home unit by the end of this decade

      • Luca Salvarani

        Honestly I thought that a domestic electric-heating e-cat would be very very difficul to achieve and that it would have required a lot of times, maybe several years… Now it seems far more near! This is the very innovation capable to trigger the revolution because it would overcome the limit of the COP… All those partial disclosures-news ecc… seem to mean that events are accelerating and soon we will have not only the incontrovertible proofs but also the products.. exactly what Rossi has always been promising.

        • Ged

          Seems new technology for converting heat to electricity is on its way, which this is dependent on (and independent of Rossi).

        • Omega Z

          Luca

          Electric production is still several years away. The technology is still in the works, but will take a couple years to obtain. Possibly a couple more to market.

          Some of the systems I’m aware of are aiming for 40% & eventually 60% efficiency. 40% works @ COP6. 16% for self sustain & 24% for use.

          Based on a 10Kw E-cat, this still doesn’t handle peek demand, but it’s a good start. What it costs will also be a major factor.

      • Miles

        +1 on praying on the heating + electricity domestic E-Cat unit. Personally, I’ll buy one as soon as it’s available, maybe Q1 of 2013 (assuming it can produce electricity also, which is what they’re working on ATM).

        Seem’s a lot of regurgitated information from this thread to previous threads. People need to sit & wait for something to eventuate. I know we’re all excited but hope is on the horizon. Meow !!! Run Hot Cat Run.

    • barty

      This would be a nice invention, but i hope rossi is developing this technology for a second or third version of his ecat.

      He should bring his “only heat” ecat to the market as fast as possible!

      • Luca Salvarani

        To Barty

        I disagree because if he can deliver a superior and most effective technology quite soon I prefer to wait and buy it instead of the earlier one.

        • Omega Z

          Luca

          Can’t switch horses in mid-stream. It would set the whole process back to square 1 Minus.

          A heater will be much easier to get certified to market.

          This in turn will make advanced versions easier to get to market once the first version develops a track record. Safety….

  • Luca Salvarani

    The translation is ablolutely correct so far.

  • hammerskoj

    Abstract of post, slighty edited via Google Translate:

    … in Italy, last days, … has formed a small group of researchers, including myself, who plan to start trials on LENR at academic level. The objective of these trials, … , is also to find out a measurable, replicable and unambiguous phenomenon to be used as a “smoking gun” to change the [negative] vision of the scientific community on argument. Here I force me to be [polite and] “politically correct”, although the reality is far from that (and I have touched this directly several times): the scientific community is not “reasonably sceptical” against these phenomena, it is literally hostile.
    etc