LENR Cars Plans EV of the Future

LENR Cars is a site that has recently appeared with the stated goal of “developing a zero emission car, self sustained in terms of energy for at least 40,000 km.” The project is headed by entrepreneur and engineer Nicolas Chauvin who is based in Lausanne, Switzerland.

The site, which is still ‘under construction’, explains that the plan is to adapt an existing electric vehicle — the Tesla Model S Performance — and make into an EV powered by LENR reactors. In Stage 1 of the project, an onboard LENR reactor will power the existing battery using thermoelectric energy conversion ; Stage 2 calls for “an onboard LENR generator to remove most of the battery storage currently needing [sic] in an EV.”

According to the site, the preference is to use Defkalion GT’s 45kW Hyperion reactor as the basis for the LENR powered cells they hope to develop.

It’s not at all surprising to see this kind of project appear. As people start to accept that LENR technology is viable and can provide practical levels of energy, entrepreneurs like Chauvin with vision and ambition will try to develop products that will be attractive and useful to consumers. I am sure this is not the first project of its kind that we will be seeing. In time I think it is very likely that major auto companies will be working on similar ideas.

Andrea Rossi has stated that he believes it will take decades before his technology will be able to be used in automobiles, but this does not seem to be a view shared by LENR Cars. They say, “Our vision is simple: Nothing is impossible!”

LENR Cars were presenters at the recent International Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Symposium in Williamsburg, Virinia (ILENRS 12) and here is the slide show they used: http://lenrnews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LENR_CARS_NChauvin_ILENRS-12x.pdf

  • http://poweraudioandtint.com car detailing boca raton

    More efficient vehicles needed to released asap!

  • PersonFromPorlock

    If we’re going to assume LENR is for real, though, cars may be pretty much obsolete anyway. Any time these last sixty years, there have been all sorts of compact VTOL flying machines that could park in a driveway. The downside has been their inefficiency, but with the amount of power LENR supposedly produces that problem goes away; and computerised controls would make operating them a point-and-shoot matter.

    Anyone for a ducted fan in the driveway?

  • guga

    Any car manufacturer that will not be fast at producing LENR cars will fail. Once LENR devices are publicly available, all car manufacturers will realize this and they will invest significant resources. Those that don’t will sell gasoline driven cars for some more years, and then bye bye.

  • catbauer24

    The *idea* isn’t genuine at all, nonetheless it is a great idea. The fact they are trying to get patents really angers me… patents on WHAT!?? It’s completely common sense what they are doing, putting a different power source in a car. The only thing needed is to control when the CF cell charges the battery… battery gets low, charge. Or their stage one, charge all the time. Simple charge controllers involved otherwise. There is nothing patent-able about this… just like VW can’t patent cars with Diesel engines.

    • Ged

      Well, since Apple can patent shapes (rectangle shape of a tablet) and sliding your hand across a surface (to unlock), anyone can patent anything these days. It’s kinda hilarious if it wasn’t so problematic to innovation at times.

  • dfnj

    “Andrea Rossi has stated that he believes it will take decades before his technology will be able to be used in automobiles”

    It will be decades before we have solid third party confirmation. Or it will be decades before Warm Regards actually makes good on his promises. Only 30 more days before I can buy a $2500 E-Cat at Home Depot.

    • admin

      If you have been following what Rossi has been saying for a long time, he states has no control over the release date of the home E-Cat. He has never said that the E-Cat would be available for purchase this summer.

    • Ged

      Never ever said this summer, from anything I recall. He’s said at most production may begin by October (which is also when the licensees will meet), and then be available at best by the end of this year, and likely beginning of next. That’s if everything goes smoothly, and is subject to the certification process, which is out of his hands at the moment (and in UL’s).

  • HHiram

    Well, cars do not use a constant amount of energy. Since LENR systems that we have so far seen are extremely sensitive and must run continuously in a “sweet spot” of power output, batteries and/or capacitors would be required in order to deliver the varying amounts of energy the car needs. My guess is you’re still going to need quite a bit of energy storage capacity.

    There is also the matter of start-up and shut-down of the reactor. How long does that take? At present, my understanding is that the process takes a long time (minutes, hours?) to get going. I suppose the reactors could just run continuously, although this would generate a lot of waste heat…

    I think what might make more sense is for the LENR to function like the gasoline engine in a Chevy Volt: it charges a large battery pack, and the car’s power train is actually a fully electric system running from regular batteries.

  • AstralProjectee

    The first LENR powered cars will go into the history books and they will be a good collectable too.

  • Sheikh Mubarak

    It quite clear USA is out of race regarding to the new technology and it is a clear a European lead.

    • Ged

      With the DARPA work clearly describing LENR, I don’t think the US is out of the race. Though, it is barking up the palladium/deuterium tree, rather than nickel/hydrogen.

      However, when it comes to publically, the EU is definitely in the lead after that European Commission report.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    “If we had ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had eggs.”

    So far we don’t actually have anything.

    Just a reminder.

    • K

      Super !
      One of these days, I make a website accepting pre-orders on LENR-powered second hand, steam-powered Space Shuttles !

      No, Nicolas has ideas, and I hope a lot of money, and with some enthousiastic friends, drinks and a Tesla-car, the idea of onboard charging based on LENR may become a working, single-unit project.

      What is going to happen with cheap energy is written in this concept: a terrible waste of energy.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

    “Andrea Rossi has stated that he believes it will take decades before his technology will be able to be used in automobiles”

    I suspect that Rossi probably knows this is nonsense but has adopted a policy of minimising the numbers of potential enemies by talking down the full impact his devices will have. It seems likely that we may hear less and less about ‘home e-cats’ for exactly this reason.

    The reality is that once anyone **incontrovertibly** demonstrates an LENR reactor, or actually offers a working LENR product for sale, then similar devices will begin to pop up everywhere, until TPTB get their act together and governments are instructed to legislate in order to take control of the technology.

    • Ged

      Can’t control technology that is only hydrogen and nickel, I would say.

      Be that as it may, we definitely have been hearing less and less about the home units. Rossi is only telling us about the R&D efforts lately. So, seems like you’re right, and what you note is actually already happening.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        A gun is only a lump of machined steel with a few chemicals, but most governments have successfully controlled their manufacture. Invented ‘safety issues’ or a faked accident could easily be used to introduce licensing requirements for LENR I think.

        Paranoid Pete

        • Ged

          I can see how there could be ways. It would be difficult to justify, which gives me hope it couldn’t be done. And if some governments did, LENR research and production would go to countries that didn’t, and they’d prosper while the rest lost.

          In the competition between nations, whoever embraced LENR would have an enormous advantage, versus those who try to smoother or stifle it with control.

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Exactly! Energy-have-NOT nations have no allegiance to the energy lobby. Japan, S Korea, India, Singapore, Taiwan, Israel, Turkey, and China are scrambling to master this technology.

    • dfnj

      Someone needs to sell a kit so high school students can perform LENR experiments.

      The real money is going to be made in the control module. It would be nice if the control module was available for purchase. Then innovative companies can be unleashed to develop every type of application.

      The power station business model will mean a very slow deployment of LENR technology.

      But heck, I and the rest of the world would be happy with **incontrovertibly** demonstrated
      LENR reactor so the oil speculators would destroy the price of oil.

      • Ged

        You might be able to ask NI for a control module. Don’t know how much that would run, however, but they are at least one known entity making such modules for a great number of folks.

        In that way, seems NI completely agrees with you about where the money is at.

        • Dionysius

          The control module is unlikely to be so sophisticated that it will defy attempts to link a reactor’s sensors to a PC using something like NI’s LabView software… this will be like the days of stolen HBO signals!

      • Jimr

        I’m not certain what type of control module you are referring too. That is the entire problem with the Ecat, Defkalion, black light, etc, they have not been able as yet to control their units. They may operate for six to eight weeks and then fail.

        • Ged

          I think by “control modules”, he means the electronic controls to keep the reaction stabilized and monitored, as such as NI makes.

          I don’t know about the reactions failing after six or eight weeks. I only know about DGT’s and MIT’s output traces, which show quite some fluctuations on the minute to hours scales. MIT’s work is lower power and able to last months on end without failure of the reaction from such fluctuations. But the more energy you’re trying to get out of it, the harder to sustain it seems to be, such as with DGT.

          I’d say, if you could hold it stable as long as six weeks, then you’ve gotten it down; otherwise it would fail within hours like what seems to happen to DGT in the leaked data, some months ago.

          I have no idea about the E-cat or BlackLight’s longevity. But mastering control of the LENR process is definitely the current Holy Grail.

  • Andreiko

    In mijn visie zijn alle bekende automerken een LENR systeem aan het inpassen, zo niet dan staan ze binnen de kortste keren aan de kant.

    • dfnj

      Ik zou eerder door een LENR vliegende auto in plaats van het kopen van een met wielen.

  • carloluna

    BALLOONS AND LENR

    For most of the balloons operating temperatures can reach 120 ° C approx. Note that the melting temperature of nylon is significantly higher (about 230 ° C), but well below temperatures are used since the fabric, if exposed to very high temperatures, degrades very rapidly, reducing the operational life of the balloon itself.
    In typical operating conditions the balloon of a balloon requires about 3 cubic meters of volume per kilogram to be lifted. The exact amount of buoyancy, however, depend on the temperature difference of air between the interior and the exterior of the balloon, the altitude above sea level and the degree of humidity of the surrounding air. In general, the buoyancy decreases by about 3% for each 1,000 meters (corresponding to about 1% per 1,000 feet).
    the e-cat at 600 degrees can inflate. few years and you might see hot air airships sail majestically across the sky

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      A more attractive option might be a zeppelin-type airship with internal lifting cells attached to a plastic and aluminium frame made rigid by tensioned mylar cables. The cells would be helium-filled for cold buoyancy equal to a few thousand pounds less than overall weight, with arrangements for CF heating and forced-air cooling to control lift. As a by-product, heated lift cells would ensure comfortable conditions for passengers and crew inside the main envelope.

      The balance of lift gas heating and forced-air cooling would be computer controlled for trim and descent, so that no expensive helium ever needs venting. Some water ballast could be carried for stability, which could be discharged as required in the event of damage resulting in gas loss.

  • http://www.lenr-cars.com Nicolas Chauvin

    Hi LENR followers,

    Thanks for your comments.
    We are very busy right now, so we apologize for the lack of update on the website.
    Please wait for ICCF-17. News should follow.
    Best regards,

    Nicolas

    • artefact

      Hi Nicolas Chauvin,

      If it goes on like this I have to buy tickets for a flight to Korea :)

      I wish you all the best,
      Artefact

    • Ged

      Thanks for stopping by! I really hope your plans pan out with complete success. Keep pushing that envelope.

    • Sanjeev

      Please keep us posted on your Athanor replication results.
      All the best !

    • dragon

      The whole world will be amazed when they first see a Cold Fusion car.
      Keep up the good work.

  • Adrian Ashfield

    JTEC is an idea related to a fuel cell that generates electrical power from a high temperature source.
    IF it works, something like this with no moving parts would be quite something to have attached to a high temperature E-Cat and certainly good for an electric car.
    Johnson claims up to 60% efficiency from 600C.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/green-energy/4243793

  • Ivan Mohorovicic
    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      FY 2011 Accomplishments:
      – […]
      – Continued quantification of material parameters that control degree of increase in excess heat generation and life expectancy of power cells in collaboration with the Italian Department of Energy. Established ability to extend active heat generation time from minutes to 2.5 days for pressure-activated power cells..

      FY 2012 Plans:
      – […]
      – Establish scalability and scaling parameters in excess heat generation processes in collaboration with the Italian Department of Energy.

      ———————

      I wonder if the upcoming third party Rossi validation will come from the Italian DoE ?

      • artefact

        The headline is:
        DARPA Nanotech Projects – $34 million investigating cold fusion and excess heat was found

      • GreenWin

        Yes, DARPA and ENEA have about ten years of collaborative work in LENR and related areas. Ever since “Report 41″ when ENEA President Carlo Rubbia and A. DeNinno confirmed production of He4 in cold fusion cells – both DARPA and ENEA have been collaborating. Unfortunately for the taxpayers who finance these experiments – very little has been made public.

        http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DeNinnoAexperiment.pdf

      • Sanjeev

        Thanks. This is a great news.

        I suggest they spend 2 million out of that 34 and buy an Ecat, just to see if it works. If it does, they can save 32 millions.

        I don’t know if a practical tech will come out of this research but this will encourage more funding into LENR in industry.

  • Robert Mockan

    Nice pictures on the web site.
    Until one can obtain even a 1 gram sample of LENR catalyst, with instructions how it is made, and how it can be tested, all these big plans for producing products can be given all consideration due.

  • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    There is no reason to believe a small working cold fusion reactor
    could not be adapted quickly to cars. It could take months but no reason why it should take more than a year or two unless it is
    being developed by a part timer.

    • Ged

      As for the waste heat issue, a normal internal combustion engine (for a midsized car) wastes upwards of 45 kW of thermal energy through the radiator, and 120 kW of thermal energy through the exhaust pipe http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0354-9836/2012%20OnLine-First/0354-98361200051T.pdf

      So… a 45 kW hyperion is actually well within the realm of the heat any of our cars are outputting. Only difference would be the hyperion would be more constant (and not have fumes). But dealing with that heat is definitely well within what we already do on a daily basis.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        As you say, heat ejection would be considerably less than for IC. The problem is that it would continue (along with fan noise) when the vehicle is parked or garaged. Probably nothing insuperable though. In a garage, a double hose connection for water or oil would allow the waste heat to be taken out and used for household heating, laundry drying etc., or just ejected via a vented heat exchanger.

        • Ged

          It’s an interesting problem. The fact its constantly generated is where the issue lies, but good ventilation may be enough to deal with it. I haven’t heard of a parked, active car heating up a garage in any dangerous way, at least not before the fumes become deadly (which happens due to inadequate ventilation).

          Of course, if the hyperion shut off after the batteries were recharged, that would completely alleviate this issue.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Agreed. Given a controllable 600C reactor, a number of methods for converting the heat to torque are available, the simplest being steam generation for use in a simple, time-tested reciprocating engine, or perhaps a turbine/alternator powering electric drive. Condensation apparatus would be essential, but most steam car problems were solved many decades ago and the best of past designes could be quickly picked up again. There do not seem to be many problems in the way of ‘hybrid’ LENR/battery deigns either, provided electricity can be generated without too much waste heat, e.g., Brillouin.

  • Sceptical

    I would be more than happy if Mr. Rossi will release a very simpler boiler – heater exchange so that I can save few hundreds bugs per year in electricity. And if I could also heat my house would be even more interesting.

    Car can come later.

    • Ged

      This is talking about DGT’s hyperion tech, not actually anything directly to do with Rossi or the E-cat. And it’s an independent group of people, simply looking at applying the technology.

  • theotherguy

    Why decades before LENR cars? Old cars. I’m not spending $50K for a tesla. Even if it is LENR powered. I can buy a used car for $10K and 10 years of gasoline and be ahead. And my money is not tied up in an expensive toy. Yes, we will start seeing some on the road, electric & steam powered, but it will be gradual. Which is good as it will be less disruptive on the economies. LENR or not, until batteries get cheaper & better, electric cars make no economic sense.

    Here in Oklahoma CNG is almost free, but the $6K-10K for conversion and another $6K for home unit will still buy 3-4 years worth of gasoline.

    If I need a new truck, sure CNG or LENR whatever, but it has to make sense for my pocket.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

      not false.
      if someone propose you that car to rent, fuel included, maybe the choice will be more easy.

      note also the first model, expensive and sexy will be concept car, or for stars…

      also gasoline is expensive in many place… even in US.

      after the choice between investment and usage cost, will be complex.

      I see many taxi preferring hybrid, because it is less expensive to use, and cool to drive in city.

      LENR is a paradigm change, and we are not trained to have big investment and no fuel cost.

      same for the car heating the garage at night, without any smoke…
      the kind of car you prefer to put in the living room in winter.

      same change from horses

      • Brian

        You’re on to something with fleet vehicles,. What does the group think about over the road trucks or even trains? The more I think about the train idea the more I like it. Bring back the steam locomotive!

  • Stephen Taylor

    The presentation has many excellent references to state of the art technology related to LENR utility. Turbines, steam engines, thermoelectric conversion etc. What an excellent presentation they made! Looking forward to seeing more of the publications from all of the recent and upcoming conferences. We really seem to be watching history in the making!

  • dfnj

    I am very surprised someone is trying to do this. I could understand this if a proven technology existed. But LENR is more a lab result than a product. Real products have more than 10 customers and are proven to work.

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      That depends, doesn’t it, on how fast this revolution proceeds?

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      “But LENR is more a lab result than a product.”

      I think you’ve rather lost the plot again, Dave. The whole point of most of the present activity is to be first on the block with a marketable product. It seems pretty reasonable that some entrepreneurs such as Nicholas Chauvin are already looking at potential uses for such products.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

      if Defkalion is right, and it look from their technical answers and behaviors (much more credible for an engineer than Rossi’s claims), then the technology is there, and waiting to see the final results to prepare for the revolution, is the best way to be late.

      A startup company cannot afford to be late.

      i can afford, and you too. so let us wait, and let us support them to take that controlled risk.

    • dragon

      Don’t be surprised. If you can think about LENR cars, years before the competition does, then why not?

  • daniel maris

    This is way ahead of where we are. Harmless if billed as speculation, but their website seems to be offering more than that.

    • Ged

      Their calculations are very interesting, and grounded in actual products other than the hyperion, at least for their stage 1 plans. I think stage 2 requires slightly more advanced thermoelectric generators, which are on their way, but I don’t think are quite here yet.

      I guess we’ll have to see how their plans have developed when they present at the coming conference.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    This presentation shown at ILENRS-12 is clearer than their website:

    http://lenrnews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/LENR_CARS_NChauvin_ILENRS-12x.pdf

    • admin

      Thanks, Ivan — added the link to the post.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

      I got in contact with the founder.
      He said the website is obsolete,and give us those slides.

      His approch seems rational and quite conservative in fact.

      the only limitation i see for his project is cooling inside closed place, however it is only because garage have not yet been adapted to LENR.

      imagine that you connect house with garage just for heating in winter ?

    • paulz23

      Amazing – LENR Cars this is moving very fast now – lets see what 60 min says Tuesday?