Rossi: Third Parties Will Validate High Temperature E-Cats

Many people have been wondering about how the upcoming tests on the high temperature E-Cats are being performed, and now Andrea Rossi has stated in unambiguous language that an outside entity is carrying out the tests. On the Journal of Nuclear Physics today, Bernie Koppenhofer asked:

There has been a lot of speculation on this site and other LENR sites about whether the statistics about your new 600c reactor will be validated/Confirmed by your customer or third party. Will it be?

Andrea Rossi replied:

Yes, the validation of the high temperature reactors is made by third parties.

One of the main criticisms that more skeptical observers of Andrea Rossi’s past public demonstrations was that he was in control of them all, and that no fully independent evaluation of his technology has yet been made. I think that point of view is debatable, since the October 28th demonstration was done under the direction of engineer Domenico Fioravanti who accepted the validity of the test in behalf of his secret customer. Nevertheless, this upcoming test, if carried out in a professional manner by a competent and qualified independent party, might be a real opportunity for people to come to some firm conclusions about the reality of Rossi’s technology.

Rossi has said that the results of the testing will be published “within weeks” on the Journal of Nuclear Physics.

  • georgehants

    If Rossi is a fraud he is going to have to work hard to catch up with this guy.
    Peer review, Ha.

    Scientific Method / Science & Exploration
    New record for faking data set by Japanese researcher
    Anesthesiologists published 212 papers; only 3 clearly fraud-free.
    http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/new-record-for-faking-data-set-by-japanese-researcher/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29

  • http://www.grupoice.com Jorge Jimenez

    Do not understand as well the question of whether working or not working. The question we should ask is: will it reach the people and will remain so far outside the population. If it really exists and should have a million tests to certify before getting it to the public to consume, well, I think with all responsibility who make such tests must be very sure of everything.

    I remain optimistic that very soon will unveil the hidden and the whole world will benefit, whether or not Rossi who does it. LENR is real and will be the future for the world, perhaps partly by solar energy, wind and sea, and will of my knowledge.

  • Iggy Dalrymple

    In late September, Obama’s puppet-master, George Soros, will instigate the Iranian version of “Gulf of Tonkin” incident, causing oil prices to skyrocket. In early October, Obama and Rossi will make joint announcement at MIT of new era of cheap energy. Gasoline & oil prices plummet and Soros reaps billion$ with his huge short position. Soros’ puppet is reelected, enabling the fulfillment of of his dream of a United Socialist States Republic.

    • Joseph Fine

      Iggy,

      If you tell everyone this, the short on Oil won’t work as well.

      Joseph

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Couldn’t be any worse than being governed by Wall Street and the rest of the corporate psychopaths I think.

    • dfnj

      Where is the socialism? You be the judge:

      “Today the wealthiest 400 individuals in America own more wealth than the bottom half of America, 150 million people. Today, the six heirs to the Wal-Mart fortune now own more wealth than the bottom 30% of the American people. One family owns more wealth than the bottom 30%, 90 million Americans. ”

      “These people on Wall Street spent billions of dollars, billions of dollars, trying to deregulate Wall Street and they got their way.”

      “independent audit that some of us helped to bring about in the Dodd-Frank bill, we learned that the Federal Reserve provided a jaw-dropping $16 trillion in virtually zero interest loans to every major financial institution in this country, central banks all over the world, large corporations and, in fact, to wealthy individuals.”

    • Ron

      Correction…Iggy really means the Koch brothers, not Soros. They need more funds to steal the election.

  • daniel maris

    One for George:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120705201330.htm

    Did some alien IT worker get it wrong?

    • dfnj

      I think it vanished because gravity may not be a property but a force that can be generated by national processes. So I am thinking the materials coalesced into a planet or a number of smaller bodies shaped by localized graviatational forces.

      If gravity can increase with stellar bodies that could explain why the Universe is accelerating. It would be like tighting a tethered ball which would cause the acceleration.

    • georgehants

      Thanks daniel, have seen that, I would need good Evidence to believe in aliens, I only argue that hiding and not looking at the Evidence is irrational.
      Any coverup is pathetic, if there is Evidence then do the Research and laugh at “opinion experts” who debunk a subject like Cold Fusion or UFO’s.

      • Andrew Macleod

        The existence of aliens is certain. The big question is, have they come to earth yet?

        • Robert Mockan

          Good question. Why would aliens visit a planet that has no evidence of intelligent life on it?

          • dfnj

            For the same reasons we study insects.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            They’re just after our women – even if they are blue methane-breathing cephalopods.

            • Garry

              Your women are blue methane breathers with tentacles?

              While things might get interesting on a date, don’t light up a cigarette afterwards…

            • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

              Grammar my strong point never was!

            • Anonymole

              But stand out, your impression of Yoda, does.

          • Barry

            I.Q. isn’t everything Robert. There is also E.Q.

            • Andrew Macleod

              So true…. In still waiting to hit double digits with my IQ.

          • Andrew Macleod

            Maybe they have found intelegent life, just isn’t human intelegence.??

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Aliens are entertaining, but it’s also a good mental exercise and thought experiment to look at our physical actions through the eyes of imagined intelligent alien observers.

        • Dionysius

          Certain? Au contraire! While it is safe to say that to infer extraterrestrial life is a very safe bet, it’s a long way from a CERTAINTY…

  • georgehants

    Nuclear power at record levels, despite Fukushima disaster
    Japan restarts reactors, global reactor construction boom underway
    By Evan Mitsui, CBC News
    Posted: Jul 5, 2012 6:42 PM ET
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/05/f-nuclear-power-post-fukushima.html

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      This unjustifiable haste possibly reflects deep concern within the nuclear fission industry, and greatly increased intensity of ‘lobbying’ in government circles. Once enough money has been pumped in, or reactors are started, then loss of face, financial losses and decommissioning costs become too high to allow the programs to be stopped – even when those who commission them realise they’ve been sold a very dangerous white elephant.

      • daniel maris

        I think when Germany perfects their methane from wind and solar facilities, the nuke nations will realise just how dark and dangerous an alley they have gone down.

        • dfnj

          Die Deutschen haben die stärksten furzt.

      • Karl

        Agree. An intense lobbying to replace the old nuclear plants is for example going on in Sweden currently. It is certainly may reasons not only to proof CF/LENR (which is already done) but to physically demonstrate operating systems that can be visualized to be commercial products by Rossi et al. Hopefully this coming months. If and when this this happen, there will always be any region/country that go first into it even if some may try to stop it. To compete on an open global market, once almost free and clean energy is out everyone needs to go with it to survive at least economically.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Nuclear energy couldn’t even survive in competition with existing energy sources without taxpayer subsidies. That why our prime minister Cameron spends so much effort on legislation that is designed to pay huge subsidies to nuclear generators, and simultaneously imposes massive costs on fossil energy.

          The irony is that the proposed UK legislation would require the taxpayer to subsidise LENR power generation as well, as it would qualify equally as a ‘green’ energy source.

          • GreenWin

            Imagine running a home e-cat at 10kW and selling the unused excess electric back to national grid. Thanks PM Cameron!

            • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

              Perhaps that’s the reason for Cameron’s frantic manoeuverings – he’s secretly trying to pave the way for LENR and is not the nuclear industry’s puppet after all!

  • lemmo

    When? Where? Who?

  • Jos

    If validated by third parties we should contact Avaaz and put some pressure on it.

    A transnational community that is more democratic, and could be more effective, than the United Nations.

    http://www.avaaz.org/en/index.php
    http://www.avaaz.org/en/contact/

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      The problem with avaaz is that they are now starting campaigns on too many issues, including many trivial ones, and in areas where petitions will be totally ineffective. They need to focus on matters of real importance (such as CF) rather more.

      • georgehants

        Agreed.

  • Francesco R

    IMHO “within weeks” could mean “before ICCF-17”.
    If Defkalion has something real to present, Rossi will try to show some real results before that date.
    I think, probably, we’ll see something within the first week of August.

    • Karl

      Will be interesting to see the cards played among CF/LENR competitors in the coming weeks. Defkalion that hardly showed anything yet officially announced a press release 29 June – before the Korea event that starts 12 Aug. It looks like we will see validated results from Rossi and Defkalion and probably a couple of others in a couple of weeks.

      • Ged

        Seems like ICCF-17 is shaping up to be the big defining event for many of these guys. Now will likely be the make or break for investors in who to choose to back to market.

    • dfnj

      I like your logic. Brillouin speaks at NI-Week 2012 the first week of August. And they speak at ICCF-17.

  • Stephen

    Oh nice, yet another “this will happen”…

    The Greeks too have said to have run plenty of testing with third parties. I think they even said they were going to disclose the results, do I remember correctly? And then? Who participated? What about the results? Any crude fact behind all these words?

    • dragon

      Yeah.
      Defkalion said that they will release the results for the 7 tests with the 7 third party entities sometimes in April… we are now July and nothing. And if they give us nothing at ICCF-17 in August, there it goes any trust we had in them.

    • Claes

      Well, what you don’t get is that Rossi doesn’t give a rat’s ass whether you believe him or not.

      Some people seem to think that his main headache is convincing the world that this works. He’s clearly not placing any higher level of priority on that.

      • dfnj

        And every good marketing person will tell you speaking about your customers, first adopters, and product champions as rat’s asses is not going to get you far. The new boss is looking the same as the old boss.

        If Rossi has real product his company should start acting like a real company. This means have real customer relations and press releases.

        • Zero

          Rossi has developed his own style of marketing and press releases. Do you know how many companies have this much hype around their product testing? I can tell you it’s damn few and none of them are companies that are just starting out. Look, Defkalion went down that path and they lost all their hype in a matter of days.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          Once proven, his problem is too many customers, not too few, methinks. Not sure if ordinary laws of marketing hold for a thing that extraordinary.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

          you mean like DGT seems to became since the forum shutdown…
          😉
          Web 2.0 is real, but life is still in 1.2012

      • Anonymole

        For someone who has continuously declared that his public image is of little importance to him, Rossi spends an inordinate amount of time hyping his efforts through his blog and intentionally maintaining a high level of speculation surrounding his progress and projected results.

  • dfnj

    Is the “Journal of Nuclear Physics” an independent and separate entity from Rossi and his team?

    • dfnj

      btw, who is Dominico Fioravanti?

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        The “Journal of Nuclear Physics” is a blog which Rossi set up and is run by him. It publishes research papers that can’t get published elsewhere, but Rossi uses it as a front end where he allows questions about e-cat progress (mostly) and answers them (mostly).

        http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/

        Dominico Fioravanti is the name or pseudonym of an individual (a retired military engineer) who supposedly supervised the acceptance tests of Rossi’s first 1MW thermal generator and ‘signed it off’ on behalf of the buyer. He has not been traced, but that probably does not mean very much.

        • Ged

          I think it’s spelled Domenico Fioravanti, but could be Dominico. I didn’t look too closely for if it was an i or e on the document.

          Sadly, there’s no public database on colonels, be them NATO or US; so no way to track. Especially since there is a “famous” Domenico Fioravanti who is an Italian swimmer.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            You’re probably right about the spelling, Ged. I just cut and pasted it from dfnj’s post. Either way, I think quite a few people have tried and failed to identify him. Of course, the shills over on ECN have tried to use this as proof of a ‘scam’, but it probably just means he is a bit too old to be interested in having a Facebook account, or in posting on Twitter!

    • Stephen

      Try and guess 😉

      Setting up your website and calling it a “journal” does not really make it a journal… but apparently it is claimed to be even peer reviewed. I hope people don’t take it bad if I am skeptic on this as well…

      • georgehants

        I think the mere fact that scientists are given a place to publish and discuss their theories without abuse and having to pass the insane barriers erected by the main-line journals is sufficient reason to applaud Rossi’s Journal.
        If one reads the quality and important papers that would be rejected by the closed-minded main-stream, one cannot but feel how much science needs to change and free themselves from conventional almost irrational thinking.
        Why when the Evidence is there for all to see, do some people just wish to criticise and not congratulate the efforts of others.

        • Stephen

          Fair enough… I find the a-prioristic anti-CF attitude of some official science… ehm, unscientific.

          Still this “journal” is strange… how can I submit an article? is there an editorial board? who is part of it? peer-review by at least on university physics professor?

          • georgehants

            Stephen your questions seem to apply to any journal, can I suggest that like everybody else you do a little research.
            Everybody publishing on JONP seems very happy with the service and I think they are the one’s who count.
            Would be interested to see the paper you are thinking of submitting put on this page,

          • Andrew Macleod

            Why does it have to be looked at by a professor? By definition peer means: A person of the same age, status, or ability as another specified person. Obviously if they are unwilling to even look at it they are not his peers! Just people telling others what is and what isn’t.

      • Redford

        Does it really matter for this specific issue ? The real question is “who will claim the autorship on those results” to me. It can then be published pretty much anywhere as long as this 3rd party says “yup, those ar my results”.

        Who this 3rd party is remain the real question. A retired engeneer again would look suspicious. I hope for a company name with some references.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Yes, so do I. Anything less would not move things forward at all.

        • GreenWin

          The problem, given the history of suppression of cold fusion results (e.g. Cal Tech, MIT, ENEA) and certain powerful influences threatening private sector (Hagelstein’s revelation of the elimination of third party research grant) – I would be very happy with a retired scientist or qualified engineer.

          Unfortunately today, it is only a small group of qualified people who have the courage to confirm LENR findings. Even tenured professors are vulnerable as we see with Peter Hagelstein and Carlo Rubbia (Report 41). In a few cases there are research labs like SRI that are qualified.

          “Since writing my first report on McKubre’s work two months ago, I’ve become convinced that the federal Department of Energy is responsible for a massive failure to serve the public interest. Rather than budget the funds needed to explore this new, emerging science, our top national energy science officials have adopted what might be called, at best, a policy of benign neglect. At worst, it’s a policy of fraud and deceit.” Hal Plotkin SF Chronicle

          http://bit.ly/LTZvBK

      • dfnj

        I agree with your comment about calling it a “journal” does not really make it a journal like the title implies.

        It is more a place where Rossi can tweet marketing stuff. The articles I read did not seem any different than the ones that show up on the ten different websites covering Rossi.

        And that’s another thing. It’s almost as if all the posting and re-postings of “information” is there just to stuff the search engines so Rossi E-Cat always comes up first on any LENR google search. I think this is brilliant marketing idea but it will only get you so far.

        If Rossi publishes his results on JONP referencing secret customers and validated by “engineers” with the same names as famous Italian athletes I think skeptical opinion will be back at square one.

        I agree with another poster. Rossi doesn’t care what his future potential customers think. I seem to remember Rossi claiming a very short time ago there would be E-Cats in Home Depot by August 2012.

        It seems to me the Rossi supportors are locked in a battle over “opinions” and “perceptions”. The Japanese have a saying, “The first person to raise their voice in an argument loses.” If Rossi’s products are so good, they should be able to speak for themselves without people having to defend them. But I can’t buy one from Home Depot as far as I know. Who won the argument?

        Also, I think his European patent runs out this year for not having put any product on the market in the five year time frame.

        • Robert Mockan

          As you probably know “stuffing the search engines” with keywords IS the basis of getting buyers traffic to e-commerce sites, and a site first in the search engine list. The spiders that crawl the web follow the visitor keyword clicking action. But for a site to make money it has to have clicks on the AdSense ads and AdSense affiliate sales plugs that are displayed on the site, or sell products and services. The JOURNAL site has no ads. In the nomenclature of e-commerce, although the JOURNAL is getting traffic, it has never been “monetized” with ads to make money. I notice also that none of the posters use the traffic and direct visitors to their own, or other sites, that have been monetized and could use the traffic. That means the adviser board is disallowing such. So evidently what Rossi has done is sincerely make a web site where papers can be posted, that do not have a prayer of being published in any regular scientific journal. And about the “peer” review system? Take a look at the adviser board for the JOURNAL, (7) professors and at least one PhD. By any measure Rossi has done a service to the LENR field by making the JOURNAL available.

        • georgehants

          dfnj your post would seem to be an exercise in Anti Rossi propaganda.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            To be fair George, his general point is valid. We do in general spend a lot of time spinning our wheels. Hopefully that may change soon.

            Dave, I don’t think that dates proposed a long way in the past being missed is particularly significant. Everything in commercial development ‘slips’ for all sorts of reasons. Your Japanese quote is apt – fortunately we get very little of the kind of blood-boiling mutilation of the facts that some ‘skeptics’ over on ECN are so fond of.

        • GreenWin

          Dave from NJ, you say:

          “I seem to remember Rossi claiming a very short time ago there would be E-Cats in Home Depot by August 2012.”

          I can find nothing close to this anywhere. Rossi mentioned in a radio interview in January he was “talking” to HD. A few days later he expressly wrote he had discussion only and NO agreement was made, and he had spoken with other retailers.

          Like your comment about LENR being “real” – this site is for constructive dialog not intimation, or unfounded accusations. Do you have evidence of your claim??

          BTW, why did you change your name to dfnj??

        • Bernie Koppenhofer

          dfnj: Referring to the JONP you said “It is more a place where Rossi can tweet marketing stuff.” Have you read the 12 scientific papers in the JONP?

          Can’t believe it, even before the data has been published skeptics are questioning it’s authenticity.

          The above article left off my “PS”: Mr. Rossi: There has been a lot of speculation on this site and other LENR sites about whether the statistics about your new 600c reactor will be validated by your customer or third party. Will it be?

          PS Of course the stats could be validated by the Almighty himself and there will be skeptics who will question the Almighty’s qualifications. (:

      • Robert Mockan

        Even a simpleton would see on the JONP home page near the top left corner a category called “ADVISERS”.
        If clicked on that the resulting page displays the list of advisers who peer review the articles that appear in the JONP. I’m sure people do not take it bad that you are a skeptic. Most likely they give that fact all consideration due.

  • jacob

    It is wonderful ,that we have a new energy source beside crude oil ,with LENR there is no energy shortage,if we are not allowed to have LENR in our homes,because of safety issues,you can be guaranteed that someone will pay somebody to leak the formula and design of simple to build LENR devices on the internet,capable mechanically inclined individuals can then built LENR units and to get around insurance regulations can put one away from the house,like an outdoor furnace in a fire proof shed or green house ,just like we have a lot of out door wood burning boilers to heat the buildings via underground insulated pipes,some use wood pellets,and I installed many automated wood pellet augers and hopper bins holding up to 40 tons, in the last number of years.
    One Motel uses 20 ton a winter month ,at 200$ a ton he burns 4000$ a month for heat and hot water , for that kind of savings one could have with an E-cat,the return on investment would be great.

  • Al D

    I don’t understand why we haven’t heard from big oil on this or how they are reacting. We know that they are monitoring it. This is disruptive technology and they are the primary ones affected.

    • dfnj

      I have a theory on why. The great grand children of Big-Oil wealthy elite are just too busy living the good life to care. And the people who would raise the alarm about it just dont get paid enough to care.

      • AstralProjectee

        You probably right. Well, that or the watchers just say “Oh, that was debunked a long time ago”, “who actually believes that stuff.”

        The thing is is most of these people will not even care to look into what has been going on. Little do they realize what is about to rock their world.

        Peace!

    • dragon

      You didn’t heard anything because nothing good is being prepared by them for this. And they are busy preparing… something. If only Rossi will not be so slow. He is working with UL for more than 6 months now… that is a lot of time just to test a heater of some kind.
      I mean after 6 months they cannot say to Rossi when certification is going to be done for a heater? That is a lot of breaks for RosSi and he cannot say anything because he is under NDA and if he makes a mistake regarding the NDA, he is toast. So in short, they got him by the balls.
      I bet that Bildenberg group already gave the marching orders to UL regarding Rossi.

      • MK

        Possibly “big oil” knows better when they can not deliver as much oil as is needed. At exactly that moment the collapse of our economy can´t be stopped.
        They want to make money with oil in the future. So LENR can deliver the needed energy then and supplement the oil that we need today for energy “production”. What about oil in the future? We use oil for literally EVERYTHING. We eat oil (fertilizers etc.)So with LENR they can sell oil for a long time (at higher prices I assume for the long run). So I think they could even sponsore LENR today. That is totally different to roughly 20 years ago.
        But this is just another speculation.

    • Redford

      Why should they worry ? If the thing happen to be true they’ll just instantly buy anything there is to buy. Because they can.

      • Barry

        In my more paranoid moments, I think big oil will buy up most of the nickel.

      • GreenWin

        You assume every man’s integrity is for sale. You are wrong.

    • Anonymole

      The only scenario not examined is that, big oil, being highly protective of their monopoly and fully capable of deep investigative analysis has already vetted the technology, examined all the players and found it lacking in substance and therefore – a non threat.

      • Barry

        They’re not that dumb.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        first recently they are looking at, so they can capture it to make cash.

        second, for long they follow the group delusion, really sure there was nothing, like Enron boss was sure he was right.

        this is the theory of Roland benabou
        http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40

  • AstralProjectee

    This does not seem like a really big deal to me.

    What would be a really big deal is if the customer will come forward with their results.

    Other than that it would not make much of a difference.

    Peace!

    • Redford

      That’s exactly what’s on the table. Read more carefully.

      A 3rd party…
      appointed by the customer…
      is currently making verifications…
      and will let Rossi publishes those on his website.

      The fact that Rossi publishes thise doesn’t impact their value as long as the 3rd party is made public and confirm it.The fact that it’s 3rd party appointed by customer is ideal.

      • AstralProjectee

        Sorry, I don’t know I missed that.

        Peace!

      • AstralProjectee

        But wait I don’t see where he says the customer will go public and actually admit that they did the test.

        Peace!

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    It appears that un passante’s partial transcription of NI’s representant presentation got translated in English:

    http:[email protected]/msg67147.html

    It confirms among other things that Giuseppe Levi is being sponsored by National Instruments to verify LENR.

    I wonder if Levi and his group are being privately hired (meaning, not on behalf of the University of Bologna) by one of Rossi’s customers as third party validators of this 600 degrees e-cat. I think AB speculated something similar in one of the previous e-cw blogposts.

    Could it be that the customer is National Instruments itself?

    • daniel maris

      Intriguing…

    • alex

      Being sponsored might just mean NI is also interested in conclusive findings, and may still just be doing it for the tax write off. I think they have a motive. If you were a company who could position yourself to make a lot of money by being an early adopter, would you? Supporting high risk tech would be one way to be in the front running to receive a lot of business. If those companies acquire funding to buy instrumentation, NI would have a monopoly, because they would be vested.

      • Methusela

        It’s unlikely that they would “blow their own trumpet” so loudly if it were just a tax write off!

      • Ged

        Sponsor means they are giving direct funding. There is no higher investment for a company to give a third party. And since these labs are not non-profit charities, there is no tax write off (not that that would in any way can recoup all that is spent in a sponsor).

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      I was impressed by the NI person’s argument that NI wins both ways because if LENR is not true although 200 groups say so then it shows that there is some need for better measuring instruments. Maybe that was the argument by which they sold the project to NI top management.

    • moab

      National Instruments start with an “N” 🙂

    • Omega Z

      Ivan

      If E-cats work & come to market, National Instruments is well positioned to supply the controls & software.

      They’ve been associated with Rossi, DGT, Energetics, & Robert Duncan, Probably Brillouin, SRI, etc…

      That’s a lot of controls. It would appear that Siemens is their only contender at this time.

  • Don B

    Yesterday, we all read about the wonderful achievement of the Large Hadron Collider in their announcement of finding the Higgs Boson, after years and years of work by thousands of people with more than $10 Billion in international funding. This was a wonderful and momentous history making achievement, to be sure.

    But I can’t help to wonder how finding the Higgs will directly impact the lives of the people on earth, any time soon.

    Imagine, however, what the world might be like if “Big Physics” (or any size physics, big or small) were willing to invest a small fraction of $10 Billion into LENR (or whatever you want to call it) research.

    What a direct impact on the world that would have!

    We can only Imagine. (Thanks, John Lennon)

    Don B, Doylestown, PA USA

    • GreenWin

      The Higgs, aka “The God Particle” represents an old approach to nuclear physics. It claims to be the one indivisible building block of atomic structure. Thirty or so years ago this was the case for the quark. Before that we assumed protons and neutrons to be the smallest particles in the atom.

      While this is a break for LHC and the research community, it will not chance much in daily lives of human beings. LENR, will affect each and every human being on the planet at some point. It will vastly improve the lives of billions. It is conceivable to eliminate hunger, thirst, and extreme poverty with LENR.

      Perhaps they named the wrong discovery – “The God Particle.”

      • Don B

        Hello GreenWin:

        Agreed.

        The question to me is – how would LENR Research move forward with large investments from the International Community?

        When I think a little about history, it often takes a letter or a proposal from a well known luminary (Think about the Einstein letter to President Truman which got the Manhattan Project started.)

        Question – can the well informed readers of E-Cat World spend some quality collaborative time, using this site, to prepare a thoughtful and well informed proposal, signed by one or many luminaries, and distributed to the proper organization(s) of the world, to seek the needed funding to move these LENR projects forward, at “warp speed”?

        Or think, the “X” Prize for LENR.

        From what I am reading on this site, there are a few under-funded private organizations and universities doing this work. There may be some military or government “customers”, but we don’t know much about their work.

        It seems to me, we need some major funding – to get this technology researched AND developed to the point where private industry can industrialize it, worldwide – as soon as practical and possible.

        Rossi is doing great work (we hope), but it will take more than just Rossi.

        Would this collaborative proposal process help, or am I being naïve about what is going on in the world in this area?

        Don B, Doylestown, PA USA

        • jacob

          I hate to disagree with more research needing to be done,we have working units already,they have been built ,they are working,Mr. Rossi is leading by example,he is doing the ground work and laying the foundations ,he AlREADY HAS WORKING UNITS with a save stable COP of 6,let us stand up and encourage the ROSSI Concept for bringing it to market now,why should millions of dollars be spend to copy what Rossi has already done,it is ,in my opinion a waste of precious time,time that could be better spent on figuring out how to mount Rossi’s heater to power the world’s wheels and save lives.

          by the time science has figured out how it works, we will all have died of old age,some bright scientists will come forward with ideas and theories and proposals and they eventually will agree on one,but in the end they will most likely be wrong.

          In the end it will be found, that this whole universe is one living breathing intelligent being ,we simply are part of a whole, and live in the heart beat of the universe,much remains unexplained in Science today,answers to all things can not be found .

          Fire was used for heating for ages,nobody cares how fire works, almost nobody cares why exactly LENR works,it is after all just a reaction of nickel and hydrogen causing excess heat.

          I just want the excess heat,bring it on!!

          • dfnj

            What a lovely extraordinary claim! I would really like to see one of the units independently tested and working!!

            How hard can it be. Just give one to SRI and have them sign an NDA.

            It doesn’t really matter what Rossi is doing. If LENR is real then the Chinese are going to blast by everyone since they have most of the Worlds money.

            • Italo R.

              Rossi will sell his E-Cats at a so low price that it will be antieconomic for everyone to copy it, chinese too.

          • Italo R.

            I completely agree with you.
            Why funding someone to discover something that there already is in the market?
            It would be like funding someone to invent the wheel.
            Researches are surely useful, but only for discovering HOW it works.
            The most important researches will surely be for inventing the best ways for improving and using this new technology (higher COP, stability, safety, efficient generation of electricity and so on, and simply for using it in our houses).

            • Karl

              Agree. I think Rossi has made a correct judgement to head for the market rather than go through the mud of unwilling scientific sceptics where he would be easy to stop and delay this method further. It’s time and in fact it is urgent, that the CF/LENR get its chance to prove itself. The governments and alike have had enough time, 23 years already to stop and investigate this method meanwhile we rush towards an environmental catastrophe that could be solved if CF/LENR holds what many of us believe.

            • Bernie Koppenhofer

              Karl,jacob: Right On! Good posts.

          • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

            jacob: much agreed. There’s is the saying “those who say it can’t be done shouldn’t disturb those who are doing it”. But also: those who want to do it with big money shouldn’t disturb those who are doing it with small. Cases vary, but often big money==>lots of people==>slow.

            • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

              I suspect big money spread around to many small groups that communicate their results would work better than one large project.

          • daniel maris

            Yes, we had steam engines before we had an accurate theory of steam production.

            • Ged

              But, with a more accurate theory comes more ways to increase efficiency. Always room for more research (there’s still aspects of steam studied today), especially if we can find materials even better than nickel (note that nickel, palladium, and platinum are all in the same family on the periodic table–which is likely why they all can experience the LENR effect; but what other families on the table may work and even better than?)

        • Omega Z

          Don B.

          If Rossi or any of those working on LENR put a product on the market in the near future…..

          Money will rain from the Sky with everyone trying to catch up fast.

          • Don B

            Hi Omega Z:

            In principal, I agree with the “raining money” idea.

            However, the key word in your post is “IF”.

            I think we are ALL hoping for the best with Rossi and the others – BUT – with global energy independence and global economic growth at stake, I think we need to change the IF to a Certainty.

            My view is that this work is a historical and world changing breakthrough. We must make sure that it is successful for the benefit of all of society.

            My question perhaps is broader – what does society need to do to insure the success of LENR (or whatever you want to call it)?

            How can the power of collaboration help speed up success? (using this site, for example)

            I welcome your thoughts?

            Don B, Doylestown, PA USA

            PS: For example – do we know that Rossi’s (or the other’s) work has been fully documented in the event of any unfortunate event?? There is a lot at stake.

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    It should just be a matter of two months or so before a lot of questions about the reactors are answered freely, without the constraints of secrecy for patent protection’s sake and commercial surprise. Then we’ll see an end to the anonymity of customers and testers. In fact, thanks to Frank’s hard work, we’re getting a lot of news from many fronts already that collectively indicate this will be a banner year for cold fusion!

    • Barry

      I agree Joe. It’s seems a slow wave is accumulating, but it’s a large one, soon to hit the shore.

    • jacob

      I feel, it will all over the media in Dec,2012,the time the crude oil drops really low.
      If the big energy players are successful in using scare tactics against LENR ,or LENR is just limited to Industry conversions and a media freeze stays in effect,it will most likely be business as usual.

    • dfnj

      You will know if LENR is real is if oil does NOT rise above $80 per barrel February/March 2013.

      It may be the LENR is completely off Big-Oil radar. Maybe if real devices start hitting the market and actually making an impact on fossil fuel usage they will begin to notice. It may be that the big-oil executives are so incompetent it may be too late before they actually react to the threat.

      Since peak-oil the Big-Oil execs are ranking in the money.

      • Omega Z

        dfnj

        Big Oil is aware. Most of them have already done research on LENR & know of the excess output.

        They may already have money in the kitty. If not, they can easily buy up Billions in shares as soon as it goes public.

        These Entities don’t just buy shares. The buy Hugh Blocks of shares.

        • Pachu

          I think they are following the issue and are ready to put money and buy DGT/Brillouin or any company that has a LENR product.

          When LENR pops out as true and commercially viable, wich isnt yet.

          • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

            I sometimes suspect that the DGT’s plan is to put on a show of producing a product and then sell their “technology” to an oil consortium that wants to bury it. I hope that Rossi is different.

            • Antonio Ruggeri Dr. Ing.

              machiavellian!?

      • GreenWin

        Dave/dfnj:

        3 days ago you wrote under your other name:

        “You will know LENR is real if oil does not break $90 per barrel March 2013.” Dave from NJ on July 2, 2012 at 10:56 pm

        My response was this:

        Dave, I don’t want to have to write this again. Watch the video – listen to what Dr. Duncan is telling you.

        “If you think the excess heat effect is not real – you are being oblivious to data. I know it’s real…”

        If you disagree with the evidence for excess heat (the signature effect of LENR/cold fusion) show us why Dr. Duncan is wrong with your own evidence, or quit intimating LENR is a hoax. I am sick and tired of reading irrational denials of hard empirical, scientifically proven evidence. Thanks.
        GreenWin on July 3, 2012 at 1:58 am

        This begins to look a lot like a “Concern Troll” – one who pretends to agree with the majority opinion so as to insert their own obfuscationary opposite opinion. NOTE: Admin, if this seems out of bounds – delete.

  • Nathan

    This is some really interesting news. Can’t wait to here more of it.

  • Lu

    Rossi is just confirming what he previously alluded to when he mentioned a customer doing the testing. We still don’t know if the testers will be anonymous or not! He does say that there are more than one party. Also I wonder if there is some overlap with the supposed 10 National Instruments LENR tests we heard about earlier today. Very exciting if it turns out to be true.

    • Ged

      That’s a very interesting thought, Lu. I also picked up on his use of “parties”. I wonder if this has anything to do with the retail licensees that’ll be announced in October — they’ll want definitive proof before they fully sign up, afterall.

  • Hampus

    Didn’t he say at least a month to get valid results yesterday? And this third party should be the European customer?

    • Andrew Macleod

      Yes I do recall him saying at least one more month of testing is needed…. And his report within weeks? To me he is saying the report will be out within the month. Hoeever “weeks” could mean 2, 6 or 12. It’s a matter of interpretation.

      • dfnj

        I bet it will be a love-fest of hair splitting over the semantics of “independent party”. Sigh….