Stremmenos Speaks Out Again on Defkalion

A new post appeared today on Andrea Rossi’s Journal of Nuclear Physicis written by Christos Stremmenos, former professor of physics at the University of Bologna, and a former board member of Defkalion Green Technologies (DGT).

Stremmenos states that he was responding to DGT’s recent interview with Peter Gluck and says that his purpose for speaking out is two-fold: to defend the dignity of LENR/Cold Fusion, and to set the record straight regarding his involvement with cold fusion, Andrea Rossi and DGT.

Stremmenos accuses DGT of making sweeping generalizations, and groundless statements about their work which he notes has never been publicly demonstrated. He feels this is unfair in the light of the importance of LENR technology. He then goes on to provide a detailed chronicle of his dealings in the field of cold fusion, starting with his work in the early 1990s at the University of Bologna in trying to replicate the work of Pons and Fleischmann.

According to Stremmenos, Andrea Rossi’s involvement with DGT began when Greek economist Alex Xanthoulis came with two other people to Bologna to test a small E-Cat reactor. He writes:

Test and relevant calorimetric measurements were entirely performed, under Rossi’s vigilant eye, by J. Hatzihristos and G. Sorticos, who had accompanied Xanthoulis. Subsequently, in the midst of the usual enthusiasm for the test, a date was set for the following month, November 2010, for signing the contract in Athens between the brand-new ad hoc corporation “Defkalion GT”, and EFA, the firm holding the territorial rights for Europe over Rossi’s invention.

Stremmenos states that the contract involved payments to Rossi’s Leonardo Corp. in two phases, neither of which was paid by DGT, and after months of negotiations the agreement between Leonardo and DGT was terminated by Rossi.

Stremmenos does not comment about any of DGT’s activities since the split with Leonardo, and they have been publicly reporting about their continued business and research activities, although as yet we haven’t heard a report from any of the third parties who were invited earlier this year to do testing of Hyperion technology in Athens. DGT will be presenting at the International Conference on Cold Fusion in Korea next month, so there may be more of an idea of the state of affairs at the company then.

In the past, public statements from Stremmenos have been countered by statements from DGT, and I would not be surprised to see a response to this post published by Defkalion in the near future.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Daniele Passerini on the “L’Indro” webzine today is saying that National Instruments is funding a “double blind research campaign” on LENR with 10 selected teams including two italian ones (Giuseppe Levi/UniBo INFN and Vittorio Violante/ENEA Frascati). Interesting! But please some native Italian speaker confirm this!

    http://www.lindro.it/Fleischman-Pons-avevano-ragione,9376#.T_Vw3_Xa84p

    Google Translation of the relevant bit:
    […]From 1989 to now, the measurements taken at least 180 cold fusion experiments, conducted by researchers around the world, showed excess heat. For this National Instruments has decided to sponsor a real search campaign double-blind, in order to understand what happens once and for all during the experiments of both controversial cold fusion. He therefore selected the 10 best teams from around the world, to provide them with the best measuring instruments made ​​possible by the present knowledge, with a sensitivity significantly higher than those previously used. And we can be proud that 10 of these top teams are well 2 Italians, to Vittorio Violante (ENEA Frascati) and that of Giuseppe Levi (INFN Bologna).

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      This is where I found the link. Thanks to “Anto”:

      http://e-catstory.forumfree.it/?t=62174593&st=30#entry506067626

    • AB

      The translation is correct Ivan.

      Passerini’s insider source is Levi himself by the way.

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        Thanks again. Well, this would then explain why National Instruments appears to be involved so much with LENR scientists, at least publicly. So they’re not just “sponsoring”, but also directly funding selected groups to research LENR if understand correctly? I wonder how much we don’t know yet.

        • Ged

          Sponsoring means giving direct funding.

          Collaboration means giving manpower, insight or resources, but not necessarily direct funding.

  • georgehants

    Unlike in the past where covering-up failure and incompetence has been relatively easy, every move on Cold Fusion, every statement, every denial is recorded clearly on the Internet.
    There can be no hiding for the guilty, even the likes of Wiki-rubbish will have to record something a little close to the Truth.
    The big and important question is what is being learnt and corrected for the future, as that is the place that we and our children will inhabit.
    If the Internet is to be a useful tool for humanity then Cold Fusion should be just one of the first injustices to be investigated and corrected, by us, the jury.

  • georgehants

    opednews
    Report from the International Symposium on
    Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions,
    Williamsburg, VA July 1-3, 2012
    You read OEN — you won’t be surprised to hear about government censorship. I’ve learned a great deal about political censorship in the MSM over the last few years, but scientific censorship is newer to me, and perhaps I wouldn’t have believed how devastatingly effective it can be, in the face of stunning experimental results and tantalizing technological possibility. I attended a conference this week that opened my eyes.
    Dismissed by mainstream scientists, denied funding and space in the scientific journals, Cold Fusion has occupied a scientific backwater for 23 years. Meanwhile, demonstrations have been repeated again and again, a great deal of know-how has been acquired and shared over the internet. The scientists who stuck with it have been vindicated, and once again people are saying that a solution to the global crises of pollution and climate change may be within our sights.
    Read the article at —
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Cold-Fusion-is-Real-by-Josh-Mitteldorf-120704-254.html

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Excellent article – I wonder how large their readership is?

      • daniel maris

        A rather overexcited re-hash of what we know from sites such as E cat world I would say.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          We may know it – perhaps the readers of Opednews may not?

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Christos Stremmenos or anyone: Was intellectual property transferred?

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Off-topic? but interesting comment by Daniele Passerini made on a sister forum of 22passi (temporarily active while his blog is “closed for holiday” until July 15th):

    http://e-catstory.forumfree.it/?t=62174593#entry505746356
    (Posted on July 2 right after the italian workshop in Rome to which Passerini attended)

    Google translation (slightly tweaked):

    Hello guys, I confirm that the intervention of Concezzi was awesome, Scilipoti did own goal by shifting the focus on prediction of earthquakes based on 4 precursors (in addition to neutrons, ultrasound, and electromagnetism also spoke argon) which is a hypothesis interesting but yet to be proven. The position of NI has been very clear. Responding to a question put to him, Concezzi, his opinion is that LENR is a real phenomenon. That there are too many replies in laboratories all over the world with different methodologies to be able to think about measurement errors.
    He finally said what I know from a year: that the search for Bologna is “sponsored” by NI that provides the best measuring equipment … I hope this finally closes the mouths of IDIOTS who went on to say that UniBO had gone out of it with his tail between his legs. Levi [for NI] is among the top ten of the world committed scientist to prove the existence of LENR.
    There would be plenty to say, but not the iPhone, from the shuttle which brings me to catch the plane, during my holidays etc..
    On “L’Indro” you will read something about it in the next 2 Wednesdays [Note by Ivan: it’s an online webzine. Apparently nothing has been written today there by Passerini], then we meet again on July 15th [on my] Blog. Sorry for the inevitable errors of grammar that will be missed but I do not have time to reread what I wrote.
    Beautiful day. Big news coming and [not] for “who knows when”, this time everything is already in progress!

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      So, it appears that National Instruments is directly sponsoring the Physics Department of the University of Bologna. This information appears to be also indirectly confirmed by a non-skeptic user on an italian skeptics’ blog (btw, that is the blog where the petition against piezonuclear research originated) who happens to be often at UniBo (I don’t know if as a student or else).

      I need confirmation from somebody who knows italian better than me, though. I might have missed something.

      • AB

        A poster after someone said that Stefano Concezzi is a liar (in regards to ongoing LENR research at the University of Bologna)

        In reality what you don’t understand is that UniBo is not doing research on LENR in general but on … in particular. Come on, where do you think all these PXI-1033 and these racks of MKD-1117 that can be seen lately are coming from?

        In other words, this poster is hinting at NI sponsored e-cat research undertaken at the University of Bologna.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          thanks

  • GreenWin

    Here’s some decent commentary from Joe Shea in The American Reporter – on the situation in Europe. Maybe the Italian ENEA will push Italy’s government to begin a public LENR education and research program.

    http://www.american-reporter.com/4,498/1.html

    • Shane D.

      I share Joes optimism on BLP after they (BLP) recently provided impressive, convincing independent verification of their CIHT product.

      Whether or not the CIHT utilizes an LENR process or not remains to be seen though. Mills CIHT cell produces electricity directly and looks very much like a fuel cell, whereas LENR apparatuses produce excess heat and only through a boiler/turbine, or some other new developing technologies, with some appreciable loss in the conversion, convert the heat into electricity.

      Hopefully they are two seperate engineering feats, utilizing wholly different technologies, as then we have even more to look forward to.

      Thanks Joe… good article

    • jacob

      Thanks, Joe,nice article

  • H. Hansson

    Defkalion have been offering lip service for the better part of the time. Like the many “almost pregnant” style messages that have been zipping out to the public.

    Greece business practice is very odd and Defkalion seems to observe every rule. Even if Defkalion get a LENR product to the market, agents and customers will be prone to search for other suppliers and solutions ASAP.

    • Mannstein

      “Greek business practice is very odd.” An understatement I assume. The Trojans found out the hard way.

      Beware of Greeks especially bearing gifts.

  • dan

    Very interesting. It’s obvious that the intellectual capital here comes from Rossi. Any resulting product from DGT is going to ape his discovery. Rossi should get all the credit here (subject to delivery of a working product).

    I’m not surprised to read this account from Professor Stremmenos.

    Best of luck Mr Rossi.

    • daniel maris

      If either Rossi or DGT come out with a workable product then it will tend to confirm very strongly that the other was also genuine. Likewise if one is proven a scam, the likelihood is that both are.

  • Dickyaesta

    A solid state E-Cat read here:

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2012/07/solid-state-energy-catalyzer.html#more and specially the post from ‘martae’ maybe a good suggestion for A.R.!

    Greetings

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      First comment by some ever watchful shill as usual. Martae’s lead-bismuth ‘design’ sounds feasible.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Andrea Rossi has demonstrated his device for a year and I have faith he is very honest and sincere. I think he is doing exactly what he says he is doing.

    Defkalion is completely the opposite. They are nothing but a blank corporation designed to raise capital or persuade Andrea Rossi to allow them back into the loop.

    Defkalion has NEVER EVER even had 1 single person who can verify they have EVER EVER even made a single product. They once openly lied saying they were testing hundreds of ecats (check their forums), and once openly lied about their timetable.
    Defkalion stated they would “shock the world” within 2 weeks and 16 days later they released a Fake Spec Sheet (Does anybody actually believe it was real?). Anybody with 2 hours and a word processor could put together an equally impressive spec sheet. It even had its share of typos. I think my teenage son could have done a better job at writing it. It also came with a fuzzy photo of a green machine they claim is an ecat. Sterling Allen (the only living soul to ever testify to seeing a defkalion product saw this thing.) They also had a computer mock up.

    Defkalion is nothing but Yabber Yabber hoping Andrea Rossi will panic and take them back. Everything they have done is designed to feign production and could be done by anybody with a few website design skills and some time to kill.
    Claim a product nobody sees.
    Hire a location with a Defkalion sign.
    Make a fake Spec sheet.
    Answer questions on a forum with false answers.
    stop forum when facade seems to crumble.
    Pretend to hire people by placing ads on their website.

    I have no faith in Defkalion.

    They deleted all of my posts from their forum when I started asking hard questions, so I know their forum was heavily censored to avoid exposure.

    I know LENR is real because I am literate enough to understand publications about it. I know Mitsubishi, Toyota, National Instruments, and Siemens are some of the corporations looking at LENR energy.

    Defkalion is just an illusion, and not a single witness can verify otherwise. Not a single witness can verify a single experiment conducted by Defkalion. NOT ONE!

    • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

      They did take Dick Smith’s offer but Smith
      backed down.

      Rossi refused the offer.

      • jacob

        Maybe Dick Smith runs Defkalion GT now and bought them out with 998,000$ down payment,2000$ for Dick Smith for Airfare,

        Ok, it is made up ,but maybe not.

    • Tyler

      Sterling Allen also dropped by their facilities in Greece a couple months back. He took some pics (posted them on PESN) and validated that they at least appeared to have the goods.

      I concur that it was Dick Smith who backed down vs DGT, not the other way around. Dick stopped the process when he was said he was not willing to sign an NDA.

      • Per

        Well,

        What is the count for Sterling Allan visiting a bogus free energy device versus a real one by now? 124 – 0?

        He add negative credibility to DGT.

      • dsm

        Allan Tyler, some truth please !

        Dick Smith didn’t back down & you know it. He said that everything he did had to be open to public scrutiny & Dick Smith *never* with drew his $1 Mill offer !. It is still there today & expires at end Feb 2013.

        Dick Smith said he wouldn’t do any talking to any participant that could not be published. This is his way of keeping it in the open.

        That was when DGT backed down.

        DSM

        (PS Do I believe DGT have something ? – yes I do – but just what it is will need to be shown at some time and if not shown by end 2012, then that something may turn out to be very little)

        • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

          Whatever the truth of who backed down, Dick Smith’s pattern of behavior, imho, gives him about a big zero for credibility. He is not interested in technological innovation. He made his mind up before he offered the “prize” that LENR was not real. He didn’t do his homework. However successful he may be at selling soup, he’s not a reliable party with respect to these questions Just my 2 cents.

          • Andrew Macleod

            I think Dick Smith was happy he could not come to an agreement…. He shot his mouth off before doin his research. Haven’t had an article by that troll in Forbes in a while either maybe they found out something.

            • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

              Interesting point. The loudest critics seem to be keeping quieter, perhaps as you say because the tea leaves are looking more and more as if we will see a major breakthrough, and quite plausibly from Rossi himself, in short order.

            • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

              Interesting point. The loudest critics seem to be keeping quieter, perhaps as you say because the tea leaves are looking more and more as if we will see a major breakthrough, and quite plausibly from Rossi himself, in short order.

            • dsm

              Dick Smith donates millions to charity and does more to support innovation in this country that any other wealthy entrepreneur I can think of.

              PSI, His real world behavior is quite different to your personal speculation about him.

              Cheers

              DSM

          • jacob

            is there any meat in his soup?

    • pan metron ariston

      I personally think Defkalion is playing this first mover advantage game very smartly. If they have something we will soon know. I understand your angst but they are running a business and you are not a client as of yet. If Mitsubishi, Toyota, National Instruments, and Siemens are looking at LENR as well (as you say) , why don’t you bark at their tree as well and demand for a prototype in action?

  • http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com Peter Gluck

    Just to let you know that I have answered to him
    on my Blog:
    http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2012/07/my-answer-to-prof-christos-stremmenos.html

    Peter

    • Shane D.

      Peter,

      Thank you for your initial interview with DGT and this response to Stremmenos.

      You stated elsewhere that you are bound by an NDA with DGT, but I am curious here where you say the obvious solution to Stremmenos charge against DGT would be resolved when the Hyperion comes to market… can you shed futher light on this?

      DGT says they are on schedule to market this year (2012). They have also claimed to be done with their stage one (of two) testing by independent parties.

      And in your interview they claimed to have shipped out samples to other labs for analysis.

      Whatever information you can provide under
      the restrictions imopsed by your NDA would be greatly appreciated.

      Thank you.

      • Hampus

        Nice article Peter, I for one welcome competition is this new field.

        “Goddess of Cold Fusion- let the better and faster win! The market is infinite”

  • Alexvs

    It seems clear that once upon a time… Mr. Rossi and/or Dr. Stremmenos have achieved an overunity experiment. Both they still do not know how to replicate the successful event.

    No one has the same opinion?

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      I think you need to do a bit more reading on the subject. Best wishes, psi

  • georgehants

    From Physics World, Pekka.
    Space–time crystals on the horizon
    He concedes that this idea is “perilously close” to that of a perpetual motion machine. He points out that, being in their ground states, such systems could not be employed to produce useful work. They would, however, require energy to be stopped. “They would generate a form of perpetual motion”, he says, “which is a little scary to say for someone with a reputation in physics.”
    http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/jul/03/space-time-crystals-on-the-horizon

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      It was new to me. My immediate thought is, however, that electrons in an atom look like almost as much perpetual motion as this one.

      • georgehants

        Pekka, really good though, moving slowly into the unknown.
        Science at it’s best, when any theory is published and with respect we wait for further developments to confirm or refute the theory.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic
    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Thanks for that link Ivan.

      I’m not entirely clear about what Peter Gluck is saying, but my ‘takeway’ is that Rossi was more to blame than DGT for the ‘divorce’ which was not entirely due to finance as Stremmenos claims, that DGT turned to Piantelli or his body of work after this (and reading between the lines, have been successful), and that Rossi’s engineering talents are not quite up to the job and he may have done some disservice to CF as well as benefiting the tech.

    • Karl

      Frustration is understandable but I’m afraid these kinds of activities are just what are to be expected in any hot business environment. It is difficult to read between the lines what exactly is about to happen the nearest months from any of these companies. My bet is that Rossi/Leonardo will be the first to release a commercial product as they probably already won. They just can verify a customer and give access to such site. The market potential should be enormous even for competitors with overlapping products and at least some similarities in their business approached, like in the case Leonardi Defkalion.

  • georgehants

    Hanks comment from Rossi’s page. Hope you do not mind Hank.

    Hank Mills
    July 4th, 2012 at 5:30 AM
    Dear Christos Stremmenos,
    Thank you for providing additional clarity into the origins of the now terminated relationship between Leonardo Corporation (Andrea Rossi), and Defkalion. As usual, your comments are refreshing in that they provide important FACTS that certain other parties refuse to disclose. I admire your courage to state the TRUTH. Your integrity is unmatched by anyone else in the cold fusion or LENR field.
    You and Andrea Rossi will be remembered by history as two heroes in the saga of how cold fusion (LENR) made it into the market place.
    Here is a good quote that fits this situation: “In a world of lies, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
    Sincerely,
    Hank Mills

    • dsm

      Hank

      Nice that you like Prof Stremmenos so much, but that doesn’t mean he has all the answers.

      Stremmenos was clearly accutely embarrassed by the failure of the Rossi DGT relationship (he said so).

      Also the statement by Stremmenos that DGT were the ones who failed to live up to the agreement flies in the face of Rossi’s repeated failure to get any open certification on his eCat reactor. Rossi still hasn’t show anyone a working prototype of a home eCat yet claims he is building a factory to deliver millions per year !. How could any serious businessman plan a business on Rossi’s track record ?.

      It is just as easy to argue that Rossi failed to deliver to DGT & that after 6 months of waiting they either had to shutdown their business or seek an alternate supplier.

      I believe the evidence is that that is exactly what they did & Stremmenos would not have known this nor would he be able to make any comment on it. They would not have told him of their plans as it was partly Stremmenos who dropped them in the mess they found themselves in with Rossi.

      Hank, your idea of TRUTH and FACTS may not match other people’s ideas on the same. Certainly not mine.

      Cheers

      DSM

  • Lu

    It seems to me that either Rossi and Defkalion GT have the real thing or Rossi and Defkalion GT do not have the real thing, but that whatever the situation, Defkalion GT copied Rossi at some level. I used to not think so but now after reading Professor Stremmenos’ post, I would not be too surprised. It would be one reason why Defkalion GT did not pay Rossi for his invention (or ruse as the case may be) and why Rossi is so protective of his invention.

    • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

      There are excellent logical reasons for cold fusion to be real so it is probable any company that takes up the cause could develop a device on any of the variants in not too long a time frame. That is if they have good management and sufficient capital along with a real commitment. It is just a race to market.

      • Lu

        While it does seem plausible for a competent and driven company to duplicate Rossi’s invention or even improve upon it, the fact that Defkalion GT did this incredible feat in only a few months and admitted to illegal observations (although denying using the actual results) in conjunction with failing to pay EFA at all (according to Stremmenos) sounds too nefarious to me.

        Hopefully within the next 6 months all this will be resolved.

      • dsm

        Allan

        Very good points. One aspect that is not so easy though is that any company could start from scratch and in months produce a LENR reactor. Labs around the world with 20 years involvement are still in the milliwatts.

        One rational conclusion is that somehow DGT copied an eCat. But Rossi has stated repeatedly he never let DGT anywhere near one. One other claim was that DGT did a spectrum analysis of an eCat & built theirs from that. That claim is likely to prove ridiculous in that all a spectrum analysis would show is the different materials & not their structure & the structure on the Ni powder is what Rossi says (believably) gives his Ni+H reactor a difference. The ‘magic ingredient’ doesn’t matter because it is only a catalyst to enable the production of atomic hydrogen without having to pipe it in. Rossi has said so.

        Another option for DGT would have been to go to another scientist and contract with him for the design of a reactor & IMHO that overwhelming evidence is that this is what DGT has done.

        At 1st my thinking was DGT had nothing. I would not accept that they could have built a LENR reactor in less than 6 months from nothing. Now I lean towards the above theory that they obtained a second source & they do have something. But just what that is only time will tell.

        DSM

        • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

          I think they use the milliwatt prototypes to save on component costs for variants of a prototype and for safety in initial testing.

          It is still on a small scale for significant and useable outputs.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Alexander Xanthoulis (President of DGT) was pretty triumphal about stealing Rossi’s secret in his interview with Ny Teknik. While spectrometry would not reveal much about the internal structure of the reactor, at that time it was probably little more than a powder-filled tube within a water jacket, so what DGT probably wanted (and apparently got) was evidence of a specific element or elements inside, in addition to Ni and H. Also, if Rossi was using any kind of EM stimulation/control, they would presumably have been in a position during the tests to know exactly what input was required.

          According to Peter Gluck, it seems that Francesco Piantelli of U of Siena (the U of S is incidentally mentioned by Xanthoulis in connection with the industrial espionage episode) may have been involved after the break up. So between what they had discovered about the prototype, and what Piantelli could contribute, it does seem quite likely that they may now have a workable system.

          How it compares with Rossi’s (or rather, Rossi’s partner’s) latest developments of the e-cat is another matter. DGT may have to shift their collective ar*e if they are intending to rain on Rossi’s promised parade.

  • Italo R.

    One sure thing can be said about this letter by Stremmenos.
    There has been at least one test with positive results made by Defkalion people and probably another made by Patrasso University.
    That is: the E-Cat is real, certified by Defkalion.
    It isn’t a scam, otherwise Defkalion wouldn’t have partecipated to this adventure…

    • Shane D.

      Playing devils advocate here; the skeptics will point out that this “DGT certification” of the ecat was done by two unqualified individuals. If the J. Hatzihristos and G. Sorticos (spellings taken from Stremmenos letter), are the two below from DGTs corporate listings, then one has to wonder if they have the background necessary to carry out a calorimetry test:

      John Hatzichristos (DGT) Board Member

      Mathematician. Extensive experience in software development, Management Information Systems and Project Management. From 1992 to 1999 he served as CEO of computer systems Telemedia SA, while from 1991 to 1992 general manager of software systems Cibar AU. From 1990 to 1991 he worked at Marketing & Sales Intrasoft SA as a responsible banking sector.

      George Sortikos (DGT) CEO

      Engineer. . Former banker and industrialist (ceramic high tech). Former Chairman of State Bank ETVA (Greek Bank of Industrial Development) ’80-’90 and founder of Omega Bank ’90. . He was also chairman of the TIF (International Fair of Thessaloniki).

    • dsm

      Italo R

      What we want to believe & what can be accepted as scientific certification are two entirely different things. I believe LENR is real, but until someone gets scientific certification that they can produce say 10KW of stable output at a decent COP, I can only keep hoping the claim is real.

      There is nothing wrong with believing but translating belief to proof without the proof is what too many of us are doing. It is hard not to do so as the dream of boundless energy is an incredible one. It will be great if someone (be it Rossi, or DGT or Brillouin or any of the other LENR outfits) achieves the goal. What is problematic is anyone making global claims then failing to back them up. We all suffer when this game gets played. It gives the anti LENR folk tons of ammunition.

      DSM

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        dsm, I think you need to take into account that many people who may appear to be gullible ‘believers’ (for want of a better term) are in fact playing an internal ‘what if’ game which requires some reservations to be temporarily suspended.

        This doesn’t mean that commenters are unaware of various inconsistencies and of proven lies by at least two parties, but just that they have chosen to ignore these for the time being, in the light of the body of evidence that shows beyond any reasonable doubt that LENR is real.

        Unlike ECN, where genuine contributors are forced to waste their time defending every last word against the 4 or 5 resident and very loud shills who have successfully destroyed the value of that blog, the reservations mentioned are implicit in all comments made here, and don’t need to be constantly reiterated or defended. So while some of us may come over as too accepting, the reality is actually a bit more complex than that.