Guidelines for E-Cat World Commenters

As site administrator of E-Cat World it is interesting to see the way different readers respond to articles posted here. For some reason the topic of cold fusion, LENR, and particularly the E-Cat bring out very strong responses from readers, from people who are both supportive and skeptical. I think I understand both positions.

Speaking for myself, I’m persuaded that the E-Cat is real, and that Andrea Rossi has developed the technology he claims. If I wasn’t convinced, I would not have created this site, and I wouldn’t be spending the amount of time that I do following the story and writing about it. Having said that, I realize that there are people with different points of view, who are yet to be persuaded, and are waiting for more evidence before they are convinced. I think that’s an understandable position to take.

When it comes to posting on this site, I am happy to see posts from people of either of these positions. If you have honest doubts about the E-Cat, go ahead and tell us why. If you are excited about the technology, and want to talk about why, please go ahead! If you are on the fence, explain why! If you have any comment about anything to do with E-Cat, cold fusion, LENR and issues that relate to these topics, please feel free to contribute.

Having said all this, there are some things I want to avoid here. If you disagree with another poster, whatever position they take on the subject at hand, please state your disagreement without attacking the person you disagree with. By attacking, I mean such things as mocking, name calling, accusing them of motives of which you have no proof, and being blatantly insulting. As moderator, I will delete posts that I believe have gone beyond the bounds of common decency.

Also, please don’t become overly repetitious in your postings to the extent that it becomes annoying. In addition, I will delete posts that are obviously provocative, harassing, off-topic, spamming, or otherwise objectionable.

Repeat offenders in any of these areas may be banned from posting on the site.

If you want to report what you consider to be abusive or objectionable posting you may contact me and inform me of your concerns. I am not able to monitor the site 24/7 and it may take some time before I take any action that I consider necessary.

In all these areas, I will make the final call, and I can’t promise that I will get it right in every circumstance. In many cases it will be a judgment call on my part. Feel free to let me know if you have a problem with my moderating.

Thanks to all those who make positive and interesting contributions to E-Cat World — there’s lots of good quality information shared here, and I sincerely hope that will continue as the interesting story we are following unfolds.

Frank

These guidelines have been added to the main menu of the site.

  • Dave

    “Speaking for myself, I’m persuaded that the E-Cat is real, and that Andrea Rossi has developed the technology he claims.”

    You have no good reason to believe that Rossi has done what he claims. All of the evidence points to Rossi being a scammer/hoaxer. Science is based on evidence, not faith.

    How do you explain all of his demos that don’t output nearly enough steam to account for his claimed heat energy output? How do you explain his numerous self-contradictory statements? How do you explain the fact that he has repeatedly refused to allow a single independent 3rd party test of an E-Cat, despite the huge benefits he would receive from verification of his device?

    • Roger Bird

      Dave wrote: “You have no good reason to believe that Rossi has done what he claims.”

      They may not be good reason to you, but they are obviously good reasons for Frank. It is my experience that those who disbelieve LENR tend to be a little shallow in the social awareness department. For people like Frank, myself, and many others, the evidence of people’s word whose reputation would be ruined if they supported a scam is usually more appreciated.

      • Dave

        Roger, what people are you talking about who have given their word that the E-Cat really works? The only people that would count for me are those who have done an independent test of an E-Cat, not the people who looked at one of Rossi’s demonstrations for a few minutes and said it worked.

  • James

    Frank, well said, and I agree. offending posts should be removed, and I have read a few in the past that were not nice at all. You also made it clear that you believe in Rossi and eCat. This is where we differ and where the site fails. Provided you count yourself as a journalist or reporter, you’d need to be independent, a-political, unbiased etc. The site provides a range of opinions and stories which are from unnamed sources and that defy journalistic virtues.

    I believe that you are sincere about your reporting and I hope that Rossi won’t disappoint you once the bubble bursts.

  • Jeff

    Looks like I’m not welcome here anymore … fine.

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      I don’t understand why it should be difficult to adhere to these reasonable and well reasoned guidelines for posting. They merely ask you to assume good faith unless and until proven otherwise.

  • Ron

    On topic, I think the site is better for using a moderator. I read it often but rarely post but knowing that I can and not be attacked for my thoughts is a plus. I think the world is depending on Rossi and others to be successful. At a site called The Automatic Earth they are convinced (with good arguments) that the nat gas boom won’t last long. The rig count is way down. Thanks for the site.

  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Frank: Thanks for the site, good job!!

    • timycelyn

      Bernie – you said it, and I second the motion….

    • Ged

      Here here!

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      Ditto. Sorry if I was off guideline in my response to “Dave” yesterday.

  • http://www.21stcenturyenergyrevolution.com Tony McDougall

    I don’t know how you do it Frank! (moderate E-Cat World comments that is).

    With the momentous release of data expected from AR within weeks, I have thought about changing my design for Andrea Rossi’s caricature T-Shirt (currently available at http://www.zazzle.com.au/energyrevolution, http://www.21stcenturyenergyrevolution.com and http://www.e-cat.asia). The “V for Victory” sign might be more appropriate!

  • georgehants

    Sorry Frank the other one was moderated with two links so I removed a link.
    Please remove this duplicate.

  • georgehants

    New study forecasts sharp increase in world oil production capacity, and risk of price collapse
    June 27, 2012 By James Smith
    (Phys.org) — Oil production capacity is surging in the United States and several other countries at such a fast pace that global oil output capacity is likely to grow by nearly 20 percent by 2020, which could prompt a plunge or even a collapse in oil prices, according to a new study by a researcher at the Harvard Kennedy School.
    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-sharp-world-oil-production-capacity.html

    • GreenWin

      You have to wonder about these type studies. Can they possibly anticipate the vast variables influencing their subject? Oil has a perplexing problem with imminent LENR. Turn on the spigot and price/barrel plummets – shrinking their net income. Leave production set to maintain the $80/bbl and watch the market short their stock to worthless paper.

      Oil prices might not collapse. But oilco stock value will.

  • georgehants

    Come on guys, quick, before our Mr. Rossi claims the prize.

    Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water? Royal Society of Chemistry offers reward for explanation
    Published June 27, 2012
    FoxNews.com
    Why does hot water freeze faster than cold water?
    It’s a question that has perplexed scientists for centuries and now the Royal Society of Chemistry is offering £1000 to whoever can come up with the best explanation for what is referred to as the The Mpemba Effect.
    Judges will be looking for an outside-the-box submission that is creative and eye-catching.
    The deadline for submissions is July 30.
    Submissions should be made through http://www.hermes2012.org/ice. The answers will be reviewed by a panel of scientists and their decision will be final.
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/06/27/why-does-hot-water-freeze-faster-than-cold-water-royal-society-chemistry-offers/#ixzz1z01Qdpok

    • georgehants

      Only answers based on Aristotelian teachings will be considered by the panel of experts, as anything else is considered religiously unacceptable and will be hidden away.

    • timycelyn

      Off topic///

      As a complete guess, I’d say because hot water will have lost most of it’s dissolved air, whilst cold water will have the normal burden. The dissolved air (which you see appearing as small bubbles in some ice contributing to its white aspect) perhaps intertferes with the crystallisation process that is water solidifying, thus delaying it in comparison to water that has been degassed by heating.

      Of course, this hypothesis should be easy to prove or disprove, compare freezing rates of cold degassed (by brief exposure to vacuum/low pressure) and undegassed water.

      The hard bit would be making sure that nothing else changed, the glassware or whatever was equally clean and similarly treated so that similar nucleation sites were in both tests.

      /// End of off topic.

      • Ged

        I love that explanation, and the fact you go on to list how to test it (and a good testing procedure that is too). Nicely done! You should totally submit this to the society.

        • georgehants

          Bravo.

        • timycelyn

          Thanks guys! I’m blushing….

        • timycelyn

          Sadly, I’ve now had a quick look on Wikipedia on this. This has been thought of before, and to quote:

          “The effect of heating on dissolved gases; however, this was accounted for in the original article by using boiled water [for freezing both hot & cold water].”

          So, the moral of this one is, do some reading first…..;-)

          • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

            I always find it more entertaining to arrive at my own original theory and then read afterwards. : )

    • Ron

      Really? Are you saying I can put two glasses of water in the freezer, one at 40C and one at 10C and the hot one will freeze first? I don’t believe it.

  • georgehants

    From (Phys.org)
    Researchers establishe structure of a new superhard form of carbon
    June 27, 2012 By Artem R. Oganov
    SBU geosciences professor establishes structure of A new superhard form of carbon
    A representation of the new M-Carbon structure.
    — An international team led by Artem R. Oganov, PhD, a professor of theoretical crystallography in the Department of Geosciences at Stony Brook University, has established the structure of a new form of carbon. The results of their work, “Understanding the Nature of Superhard Graphite,” were published June 26 in Scientific Reports, a new journal of the Nature Publishing Group.
    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-superhard-carbon.html

  • Barry

    It is fascinating to enter into dialogue with people all over the world on this site. I think E-cat World has become part of the unfolding story and is moving Cold Fusion along. I have learned a lot from many of you and am inspired to contribute. When comments start to turn too negative it only gets in the way. The guidelines help to keep this a quality site that makes one want to return.

    We seem to be a relatively small audience sitting at a magic show, waiting for the curtain to go up. The least we can do is be some what cordial to one another. Thanks for putting it all together Frank.

    • GreenWin

      Hi Barry, actually you are correct; this site and the wave of LENR attention propagating worldwide DOES move the story. In fact IMO, it helps create the story. i.e. It is global consciousness positively focused on cold fusion – that virtually makes the story unfold.

      I know that’s a bit woo-woo but I appeal to the artist in you, as artists have an innate grasp of universal spirit and vibration. In that sense the curtain is already up and you are part of the magic.

  • jacob

    I agree that there has to be moderation and LENR and Cold Fusion are very real to me,and I have enjoyed reading the posts and have learned a great deal and read a lot of links that were provided by a lot of people,the World will change,the use and price of crude oil could be reduced,since there no longer is a limited energy supply as we have been told,we have been told that oil could reach 200$ a barrel ,but is is unlikely going to happen now,new technologies other than LENR and Cold Fusion are ready for market,like PLASMA ERG, people like me have been playing in their back yards and shops around the world and have created working models of
    self running mechanical devices,including running a regular piston engine on water with a high voltage plasma arc ignition ,overunity heaters based on the FRENETTE andPERKINS PATENTS,self powered Centrifugal force turbines,which are very hush hush and a major threat to SCIENCE,based on VIKTOR SCHAUBERGER and RICHARD CLEM, VICTOR SCHAUBERGER HEATERS ,4% input energy 96% free energy,COP of 24,

    I know from experience,if you don’t build your own prototypes and experiment you can not completely understand why it works when it does,and once you have created your own self running ,powered by itself,so it seems,you start looking for the real reasons why it does what it does,and I still don’t understand ,with the science of today ,with Newtons laws,which only work in a closed system,once you ad an outside force,for instance Quantum Physics,you are adding something to a closed system ,and newtons laws can no longer cover it all,

    I hope ,that all inventors who are involved in building free energy devices can one day come forward openly and some have done it already,and kept a low key approach.
    GRIGGS HYDROSONICS

    JOHN BEDINI

    selling working units,but there is a long list of unknown builder that have done it for years,if you know who they are ,you can already buy complete systems to power your home ,but some of these systems are very expensive,some are 16000$ per Kw
    some are 4 million per Megawatt ,with no input power required,and another system in the works called HIDRO ,which converts the power of nature into useful energy.
    The worlds energy needs could just be covered by energy harnessed by waves,solar and wind,the technology is here to have electric cars that can go on 500 miles on one charge,no need for crude Oil at all with todays technology.

    Cold Fusion,LENR,of course it works, but is it very inconvenient in todays economy .

    Look at our infrastructure today,cars run on gasoline,trucks run on diesel,electric cars almost non existent on today’s roads .

    IT is a system set up for taxation ,so roads can be paved etc. and for governments income,I can not see this system change for many years to come,how long will it take ,in my estimation? 25 years of gradual change .

  • AstralProjectee

    The E-cat is a matter of probability and to say absolutely yes it’s real, or to say absolutely no it’s a fraud are are both ignorant.

    On the one hand nobody tested the ground outlet to test for extra power coming from the ground. On the other hand clearly we have had some quantitative evidence despite the fact that nobody has replicated his results.

    Besides Rossi has all the others in the cold fusion field and research to help back him up.

    Peace!

    • N810

      That amount of power coming though a ground would have melted the wire right after it was glowing red hot, smoking and posibly on fire (burning rubber).

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    The person whose email was posted on JONP by Rossi for “commercial issues in Italy” wrote to 22passi. It looks like there will be a press release in 2-3 weeks:

    [slightly human corrected Google translation]
    from: Aldo Proia
    to: Daniele Passerini
    Date: June 27, 2012 10:14
    object: clarification

    Dear Daniel,
    I am Aldo Proia, the person of which, as I have been reported, there has been talk recently on his blog, I know and like but I follow only occasionally for reasons of time.
    Unfortunately there are currently on vacation for 2 weeks, so I am not contactable, and in any case I can not give interviews, so kindly ask you not to contact me at this time, but in 2-3 weeks there will be a press release and will be publicly released (and therefore also to its website) information will be deemed appropriate, with the contact details of the case.
    Would you please post or otherwise make known as soon as my statement on his blog and I apologize a lot with her ​​and with his readers could not do more at this time.
    Thank you in advance for the courtesy and attention that will reserve.

    Source: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/06/aggiornamenti-su-athanor-e-una-proposta.html

  • Torbjörn

    I thought i share this with the E-Cat World readers, written 2012-04-30 by a swedish guy that says that he is developing a LENR-reactor.(Google translate)

    “Maybe I’m revealing a little bit more this fall, need to identify the correct radiation peaks first to verify the theory. Anyone know if you can borrow or rent a gamma spectrometer of any university or other organization?”

    He has earlier stated that have a theory that explains and predict LENR transmutations, and that it can’t be used for powerfull bombs.
    http://www.energikatalysatorn.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=479&start=10#p20599

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Interesting. I think we might be seeing quite a few people emerging into daylight with their versions of the e-cat. If any can provide proof though, the ‘authorities’ are likely to start playing ‘whack-a-mole’ with a vengeance, until it stops.

      • GreenWin

        Peter, you may be right. Until there are too many moles to whack.

  • Scott H

    Thank you Frank for the great site and job you do moderating it. I haven’t posted in a very long time but I do check the site out almost every day because it’s the best LERN site there is. I love all the different personalities and opinions but most of all I enjoy leaning so much from all of you.

  • andreiko

    LENR is niet waar.
    E_CAT is niet waar.
    NASA is niet waar.
    Rossi is niet waar.
    De betrokken PROFESSOREN zijn niet waar.
    De foto,s en video,s zijn niet waar.
    De websites zijn niet waar.

    Ojah wat hierboven staat is ook niet waar.

    • dsm2

      En uw commentaar, in totaal, is puur afval.

      Why did you even bother ?.

      DSM

  • edog

    My views.

    a) LENR is possible.
    b) No one understands exactly what is happening in the reactions.
    c) Roosi is frustrating, unreliable and annoying, to me.
    d) Lenardo Corp should engage a proper Public Relations team.
    e) Excited about the future. Hopeful.
    f) Sceptical because of the way these “pioneers” promote themselves.
    g) Impatient because of the endless tease I feel I am going through.

    They are my views, only solid evidence will change them.
    I dont need bashing over the head or to bash anyone else into my way of thinking.

    I love the discussions on here! Some are so funny!
    What I think of the you guys opinions… who cares!
    But.. if you believe mindlessly without proper evidence your are silly.. if you disbelieve without proper evidence your just as silly.

    Where is my fence!!

    • georgehants

      edog, how could anybody disagree with your summery.
      Only possible addition, if Rossi is genuine and when the whole story comes out, we may see that, as he said in the beginning, that to bypass academia etc he must produce a commercial E-CAT.
      It is because he said this in the beginning and it is easy to see his point, that his “strange” actions have to wait to be judged, frustrating as it all is.
      Do your above points apply to UFO’s and every other phenomenon.

  • georgehants

    New “Flying Tea Kettle” Could Get Us To Mars in Weeks, Not Months
    by Jason Major on June 26, 2012
    At 54.6 million km away at its closest, the fastest travel to Mars from Earth using current technology (and no small bit of math) takes around 214 days — that’s about 30 weeks, or 7 months. A robotic explorer like Curiosity may not have any issues with that, but it’d be a tough journey for a human crew. Developing a quicker, more efficient method of propulsion for interplanetary voyages is essential for future human exploration missions… and right now a research team at the University of Alabama in Huntsville is doing just that.
    Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/95991/new-flying-tea-kettle-could-get-us-to-mars-in-weeks-not-months/#ixzz1yyAtnz7H

    • edog

      cool!

      • Wonder

        Well put edog!

        I would add that Rossi is genuinely annoying :p

        And great summary. frank, well maintained site and great discussion moderation. By bringing people together, every benefits!

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    I’ve read several times today comments that infer that when the E-Cat is rolled out in finished form it is going to cvreate a nmedia frenzy. I don’t think that is likely. In all probability, unless AR suddenly becomes a major advertiser, the media will continue to ignore the E-Cat and its amazing properties. Also, AR is very unsophisticated in media relations and I don’t think that will change.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      It’s just possible that might change if (big ‘if’ admittedly) it turns out that the 20kHr trials that seem to be being conducted are designed to provide incontrovertible proof that the new ecats really do represent a major new power source.

      It seems clear that Rossi now has full-on industrial backing, whether this comes from an unknown party, from Siemens AG, or both.

      Undeniable proof of principle would allow such parties to acknowledge their partnerships, and at the same time would be news that surely couldn’t be suppressed. Even if only Wired, OilPrice and a few others (Al Jazeera, Russia Today?)initially published the story it would only be a matter of time before others decided not to be left behind, despite ‘the word being out’ on this topic. No controlling system is ever 100% watertight, and once the dam has broken there will hopefully be a rush to get in on the story. But even if not, the facts will reach the public via the ‘net anyway.

      It would probably be a good idea at this point to turn off commenting on JONP, and also to get someone to write AR’s press releases for him!

      • GreenWin

        Peter, one hopes the arrival of an industrial partner will improve the level of PR at Leonardo. Introducing a professional in media relations is paramount to ecat’s evolution.

      • Bigwilly

        Peter,

        How can you be clear about any item related to Rossi and his current status. The only source of information I know of is a string of brief correspondence from JoNP and they seem anything but clear.

        Bw

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    That sounds like an excellent policy to me. We were about to become “The E-Cat World of Dave from NJ.”

    • Dave from NJ

      I thought what I was posting were valid criticisms. I made no ad hominem attacks. I type very fast so I made lots of comments. I saw nothing in Frank’s policy that suggested limiting the total number of posts.

      Frank said he doesn’t want people to repeat the same posts. I still feel the safety issue and lack of a proven thoretical model is going to prevent the technology from ever being used.

      If you look at my posts I thought I was making good contributions. But my repeated comments about safety offended the cultists. I get it. So here is my solution to the problem. I will give you back your “E-Cat World”. So long and thanks for all the fish.

      The policy sounds great. But obviously the cultists are in charge.

      • mcloki

        Your first safety concern is overblown. The steam generation has more inherent safety concerns. Heat and pressure need to be handled very carefully. I’d be more worried about a cheaply constructed boiler blowing up (mechanical failure) than the non existant or recorded radiation. Even if there was radiation detected, which hasn’t ever been stated, it just means we shield the reactor vessel.
        As far of a lack of a theoretical model holding things up. We can’t explain fire (plasma) other than to point it out. We are an exploitative species. We exploit whatever we can create for our benefit. Hydrogen + Nickel +pressure makes heat. If it works consistently is no longer a theory, it’s a proof of concept. And that’s good enough to start a business. Hot tea for everyone. Theories are for Nobel prizes, not profit.

      • Barry

        Hey Dave, It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. There is a middle path. I don’t have the deep understanding of physics that many do on this site so sometimes it’s better to quietly sit in the back of the class and learn. These people have a lot to teach us.

        It seems negative comments just open people up to be negatively challenged. This is our chance for, As GreenWin said above, “a global consciousness positively focused on cold fusion – that virtually makes the story unfold.”
        Your question of safety are legitimate and you got a lot of good answers addressing it.
        A Zen Buddhist friend of mine told me he practices non-interference, with that in mind, I’d rather see you sit in the back and watch the flow, like a lot of us do, rather than leave. Throw in an occasional comment or question. There’s a lot we can learn here. Peace Barry