Piantelli Seeking Investments [Updated — Virgilio Clarifies]

Roy Virgilio, a person close to Francesco Piantelli, the Italian physicist at the University of Siena who has long been involved in nickel-hydrogen research has made a statement on the Italian site, www.energeticambiente.it. An edited Google translation of what he wrote is below (with thanks and acknowledgements to Akira Shirakawa on vortex-l)

Hello everybody,

After a long silence, I bring good news. Yesterday I went to the lab of Piantelli to check the progress of his work. Now I can’t talk about it, but among other things he unlocked the old plan of share ownership.

In fact, fund raising to support prof. Piantelli’s LENR project will start soon. The collection of funds will be managed by an association which will collect invesments of various amounts (such as 100 – 200 – 300 – 500 – 1000 Euros).
These fees will add up until a total amount of 50000 to 100000 Euro is achieved, in order to acquire a share of the Metalenergy company which holds an exclusive European license on generators with ranges from 101 W to 7 kW.

The money will be used directly to fund the laboratory for the development of such generators (already under construction) and will then be rewarded with royalties from the sale of the of said generators (already in development) and will be then rewarded with royalties deriving from the sale of the generators themselves or from the licenses granted over the entire European territory.

As soon as the bureaucratic-organizational aspect will be ready, it will become possible to deposit shares.

I will talk about cold fusion and this particular project on Saturday, June 16th in Viterbo during the “Energiainmovimento” event from 15:30 to 16:30. You can download the program here:

http://www.energeticambiente.it/fiere-conferenze-e-raduni/14748688-evento-energia-movimento-viterbo.html

Full speed ahead!

Roy

It is clear from this that Piantelli is looking to set up a company that would be in competition to both Andrea Rossi and Defkalion Green Technologies. Mentioned here are generators with power output up to 7 kW. He uses the term generator rather than heater, so it sounds like electrical production is being claimed here. As with Rossi and DGT, no fully independent verification of the claims have been presented by Piantelli’s group, and without that, it might be hard to raise the funds mentioned here.

Perhaps more information will be provided at the meeting this Saturday. For more information on Piantelli’s work, his colleague Valerio Ciampoli presented a review of his work at the recent Atom Unexplored conference in Torino, Italy. Video of the presentation can be seen below.

Anomalous Phenomenon in Ni‐H Systems from Nikola Duper on Vimeo.

UPDATE: Thanks very much to Akira Shirakawa for sending some responses Roy Virgilio sent him following some questions about the initial post mentioned above (See next page)

Akira Shirakawa: I asked Roy Virgilio to provide some clarifications on certain passages of his previous forum post, managing to obtain some more information. I will translate his new message below (thanks again Google Translate):

http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337343

Here I see there’s need to clarify a point. Piantelli DOES NOT HAVE A READY PRODUCT yet. He does not have a box to sell. He is not Rossi. Please change your point of view.
The fundraising is done to finance the CONSTRUCTION of the prototype. We are in the RESEARCH phase. We do not sell anything.

This is about betting, risking.

Metalenergy, a subsidiary of Nichenergy (a company directly created by Piantelli and and a few other close associates), is the company which has the European exclusive for the sale of FUTURE generators between 101 watts and 7 kW. Or sale of licenses.

Nichenergy is only the company, closed to everybody, which manages the laboratory and the development of the [Ni-H] discovery. It does the research.
Once this research will have borne fruit, the enjoyment of these will come through Metalenergy. Who is in Metalenergy will at that point enjoy direct earnings and the royalties derived from the sale of products throughout Europe.

CURRENTLY who enters Metalenergy, actually finances Nichenergy, allowing it to complete the research and development.

To summarize, the fundraiser we’re going to open soon will be to fund the research and development of a prototype, and if all goes well, only then it will be possible to see the results deriving from the sale of products that DEPEND on research today.

So, who wants to put some money on this, will have to consider it almost as a donation or, more realistically, as a medium / high risk investment.
But there is this to consider: the association will purchase a share of Metalenergy worth today, say, 100000 euros.

This share in a few months or a year (as the work progresses and the goal becomes closer) could be worth say 200000, because in the meantime the risk that the work ends up with nothing will have decreased drastically.

So who will come at a later time, risking less, will have to pay double or take half the shares, and so on. Also, and this is an important thing for me, he will not have contributed on this historical adventure, and the advent of a new era where energy is clean and plentiful.

I hope that the picture is now clearer. However, all these things we will be more clearly explained on a few documents we’re currently preparing.

We, I’m saying this again and then I’m out, we do not want to sell you anything, we do not want to cheat you. This is only about actively participating in the financing and completion of the research and development of a product that can improve our lives. Those who believe in it, can participate; those who prefer purchasing a black box that MAYBE works… do that IF you can.

Roy

AS: Roy Virgilio was gracious enough to provide more answers and clarifications in an additional post:

http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337412

Q by Shirakawa: If Piantelli convinced the scientific community (which, unfortunately, made recently a petition against piezonuclear reactions) that LENR is a reality, then investments would not be a problem anymore…

A: This is the path prof. Piantelli is going through lately. There are good chances that soon there will be fundamental data which could break down the brickwall once and for all (hopefully). If this finding is confirmed (the prof is ultra precise in these matters and the experiment will be repeated until there is no doubt that the result is not an artifact) well, then the reaction will no longer be denied by anyone.

Q by Shirakawa: you’re reporting for example, that the Professor could take up to a year to collect the remaining funds needed for research

A: Not really… in the sense that the fundraising is to achieve only 1% of the shares that Metalenergy is estimated being worth TODAY, which is around one million euros. The other stocks are traded to medium-large companies or investors of a certain level. This is just to make sure that everybody can contribute with something, and have in the future (but not in 10 years!) a fair profit. And this without having to ruin your life other than maybe giving up to 10 lottery tickets and investing just 100 euros for a certainly more noble cause.

Q by Maxwell61: there must at least be some cells that produce more than they consume must be, otherwise I suppose there would be no reason to do research

A: [Yes,] There are such cells.

Q by Maxwell61: I think that here we are just asking to have 2 numbers: input power and output power … and if making these measurements are part of the “future research” after the fundrasing or if it will be possible to have them before.

A: The matter is a bit different. In the sense that Piantelli, as repeatedly stated, kept for several months (more than eight) cells in continuous overunity and even in self-sustaining mode. This result is established and repeatable. Currently, however, experimentations are aimed at analyzing the fuel, the doping, geometry and nanometrics. So, some [cells] give overunity results, some do not, some show certain things and others make it understand which paths to NOT follow. So he is not working on scale-up and a single final prototype on which one can make measurements, but on different parallel experiments where each one shows something, makes better understand what is the best way to follow, both directly and indirectly.

As soon as a few parameters will be defined (and many are already!) maybe it will become possible any day to make a prototype that will pull 5 kW out of nothing. And not by a miracle or strange sequences of reactors in parallel (?) but because there will be the mastery of the phenomenon and its laws. But for this there will be to wait a little bit (in my opinion not too much).

Q by Maxwell61: Since we’re talking about money, a minimum standard of clarity is essential.

A: The clarity is and will obviously be necessary and will be given as much as possible also with patents and official documents. And, I hope, but this is just an idea that came to my mind now, even with regular visits to the lab from those who put money on this.

Roy

  • Alan DeAngelis

    1989: “Please, may I have a cup tea?”

    2011: “It’s ONLY half a megawatt.”

    2033: (from deep space): “We only have ten Ni-H powered space colonies.”

    2034: “The tokamak is close to breakeven!!!”

    • Robert Mockan

      2040: “The human mind can now be copied, and uploaded, into a synthetic structure that never wears out, has full brain functionality, and essentially enables every person (or any other animal with a mind), in a synthetic robot body, to be immortal.”

      2065: “Prepare to arrive at Mars Colony Clarke.”

      2082: “The first star ship embarks using thermonuclear bombs for propulsion.”

      2091: “Controlled fusion will be possible within the next 40 years.”

      • GreenWin

        2083: “In what officials describe as a ‘freak’ accident, the second terrestrial star ship SSS Curmudgeon, failed to ignite its second stage, ironically plunging the craft into the international ITER project still under construction in France.”

        • Robert Mockan

          2083: “Critics of the ITER project said the shut down of the ITER project was long overdue, but it was unfortunate there is now a crater where France used to be.”

    • artefact

      2015: NEW EUPHORIA has hit the whole planet. Tokamak will be reused for other experiments though many scientists are now into the “new” realm of LENR.
      Mankind has to work together to ship through the very turbulent time of transformation reaching the age of energy abundance.

    • jacob

      hey ,come on,Venus ,Mars, Saturn,Pluto, Earth have thriving civilizations, gravity is close to the same on all planets,US does not need Space shuttles to get into space ,they have anti gravity technology
      at warp speeds since 1975,and are part of the solar system police ,and the capital planet is Venus,who are members of the galactic federation and operate at a higher frequency than the dumb and stupid human cave men mentality. Of course there is a news black out just like LENR and Free Energy ,and if you don’t believe it ,you should read ” the genesis of a new space age” can read it for free online or download for free on several sites.

      • GreenWin

        “There is a large element of truth in humor.” Chill Wills

  • artefact

    Akira Shirakawa wrote on Vortex:
    …………………………………
    I’m referring to this excerpt in particular:

    Exhibit 4

    Defkalion, of Greece, as a spin-off from Rossi, is also nearing the market.
    They recently completed a month of third party testing by at least seven
    different groups interested in licensing the technology for manufacturing. The
    results are expected to be published in August in conjunction with a major
    European trade show.

    We already know that Defkalion GT will be attending ICCF17 this August in South Korea to make presentations on an early prototype LENR reactor (supposedly the model tested earlier this year) and future prospects [1]. But what would the “European trade show” in August be?
    …………………………………..

    I searched the net and found:
    http://www.expodatabase.com/tradeshow/energieeffizienz-energy-efficiency-fair-52421.html

    “Energy production, concepts for renewable energy, building services engineering, real estate, energy efficient products, cars, consulting, financial services, public institutions, associations and networks, job and carreer forum, contracting, training and further education, energy consulting, block heating station and local energy supply, energy performance certificates, energy controlling systems, energy efficient production, energy saving regulations (EnEV), energy management, geothermal energy, vehicles / mobility, financing and capital investments, subsidies, cold and climate efficiency, green IT/ data processing center, combined heat and power plants, load management, material efficiency, ressources efficiency, real estate renovation, environment technologies, heat pumps, certification”

  • SMJ

    I have been following this site for 6 months and nothing new has come up during this time. I really hope this technology will materialize into something beneficial for the world, becuase we really need it. But since nothing it publicised I am starting to lose interest and will focus on other areas of renewable energy.
    If I see some breakthrough in the mainstream meada I will return to this page and read up on it in detail, after all it was the main stream that first made me aware of this field within the renewable area. Before this I put my trust into the tokamak technology and the ITER project. The new ITER will probably not be ready for at least another 5-10 years. I believe that the world can not move forward with a quantum leap until we discover a source of abundant energy.
    I want to wish all those who are trying to make the LENR possible good luck.

    • Robert Mockan

      I understand where you are coming from, but consider this, before you lose interest.
      Patrick Winston concluded in his thesis work with Marvin Minsky it was only possible to learn something one nearly already knows. In that sense, everything that raises awareness of why LENR may be important, how it may work, how it may change the world, helps evolve the next paradigm shift about energy. Thomas Kuhn in his book THE STRUCTURE OF SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTIONS talked about paradigm shifts and why they happen, and among his many conclusions was this: “..discovery of anomalies leads to a whole new paradigm that changes the rules of the game..”. It is precisely the anomalies of LENR that lead to it being rejected, by practitioners of normal science holding the current paradigm, thus the animosity about everything LENR related that we find so prevalent among critics and skeptics. And it is that same animosity that creates the climate of non-publicity that surrounds LENR.
      If you lose interest now, the Luddites win.

    • Robert Mockan

      An existing paradigm, or world view, creates much resistance to change. All one can do to be ready for the next paradigm shift, is try to learn as much as one can about fields of research that expose anomalies that appear to contradict the present understanding of “how the universe works”.
      Personally I believe in cold fusion because after ascertaining it was real, from my own research and studies of all experiments done in the field, the fact it was still being denounced by the scientific community, and governments (bonded at the hip to the status quo corporations need to insure their profits, indicated it is the cusp of a paradigm shift. Has not happened yet, but it will. And when it does, much more than the energy field will be affected. Governments will fall, and social evolution will take a leap forward beyond the reach of all those wishing to control it. Liberty and freedom will prevail.

      • SMJ

        I agree with you about the consequences that energy abundance will have on the world. I also think that the concept and function of money will become obsolete.

        • Robert Mockan

          More important than energy abundance will be when each person owns a domestic servant robot that can do all the slave tasks people presently have to do to “afford” the “cost of living” in society. But will money become obsolete? Not if government has its way. Government, in order to survive as an institution, needs to maintain power and control over all people.
          That means taxes, regulations, controlled schools, controlled media, centralized food distribution, control of pharmaceuticals, and so on.
          That means keeping people in slavery (until they revolt and abolish the parasitic governments).

          Revolution is coming, one way or another.

          • GreenWin

            BTW, it is not a “revolution” in the sense of the French or American revolution. It is, rather, a more sublime revolution. One where the old illusions give way to the apparent truth. That truth says, we engage life as a large scale game of Monopoly or Chess. Suppression of knowledge will no longer give advantage. The rest is up to the players’ skill.

        • GreenWin

          So say we all!

  • georgehants

    “Science is what we do to keep from lying to ourselves.” (Richard Feynman)

    The problem comes when, as with Cold Fusion and many other subjects, such as UFO’s, Placebo effect, Telepathy Etc. science cannot for political or reasons of Dogma,
    Face the Truth

  • georgehants

    Researchers take big step to develop nuclear fusion power
    June 8, 2012
    Researchers take big step to develop nuclear fusion power
    Researchers and staff at UT’s Magnet Development Laboratory prepare the central solenoid mockup for the vacuum pressure impregnation process. Credit: University of Tennessee, Knoxville
    Imagine a world without man-made climate change, energy crunches or reliance on foreign oil. It may sound like a dream world, but University of Tennessee, Knoxville, engineers have made a giant step toward making this scenario a reality.
    UT researchers have successfully developed a key technology in developing an experimental reactor that can demonstrate the feasibility of fusion energy for the power grid. Nuclear fusion promises to supply more energy than the nuclear fission used today but with far fewer risks.
    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-big-nuclear-fusion-power.html

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Hot fusion fights back!

      “UT researchers have successfully developed a key technology in developing an experimental reactor that can demonstrate the feasibility of fusion energy for the power grid.”

      or,

      “We have made one bit of yet another incredibly expensive gadget that might just look good enough to rescue our bacon for another round of funding.”

    • GreenWin

      “UT researchers completed a critical step by successfully testing their technology that will insulate and stabilize the central solenoid—the reactor’s backbone.”

      Researcher: “The best thing is we no longer need grid power! We bought a new gadget called an LENR generator, it works great and saves beaucoup Euros!!”

    • s

      The 3 key words are developing-experimental-demonstrate. Once those three words become: Developed-tested prototype-certified performance then we might have something.

  • georgehants

    One for Pekka to help us with. —
    Large N Free Energy of 3d N=4 SCFTs and AdS/CFT
    Benjamin Assel, John Estes, Masahito Yamazaki
    (Submitted on 13 Jun 2012)
    We provide a non-trivial check of the AdS_4/CFT_3 correspondence recently proposed in arXiv:1106.4253 by verifying the GKPW relation in the large N limit. The CFT free energy is obtained from the previous works (arXiv:1105.2551, arXiv:1105.4390) on the S^3 partition function for 3-dimensional N=4 SCFT T[SU(N)]. This is matched with the computation of the type IIB action on the corresponding gravity background. We unexpectedly find that the leading behavior of the free energy at large N is 1/2 N^2 ln N. We also extend our results to richer theories and argue that 1/2 N^2 ln N is the maximal free energy at large N in this class of gauge theories.
    http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.2920

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Its a bit unkind asking Pekka to translate that piece of deep niche gobbledygook, George!

      • georgehants

        Peter, I am only testing you and Pekka I was going to suggest what they are saying anyway.
        Ha.
        Only the words Free Energy caught my eye.
        Is it a real anomaly or just something explainable.

        • georgehants

          By the way I looked up the acronym CFT they use, it has 69 scientific possibilities.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      The “free energy” here refers to “Helmholtz free energy”, one of the standard quantities in thermodynamics. Other acronyms: CFT_3=conformal field theory in 3D=standard particle physics theory more or less, AdS_4=Anti de Sitter space in 4D, manifold or space with constant negative curvature, GKPW=some technical equation expressing the CFT/AdS correspondence where W=Witten, SCFT=superconformal field theory=supersymmetric extension of CFT, TypeIIB=one of five types of string theories. It’s quite technical paper, written to string theorists, more or less.

      • georgehants

        Wow, thanks Pekka, no need to send a copy to Rossi then.
        Have not heard much from Witten recently, bogged down in M theory.

        • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

          His latest coauthored paper seems to be on solid state physics, “Axion topological field theory of topological superconductors”, http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1407. It’s already like halfway between LENR and string theory.

  • Pingback: Piantelli Seeking Investments [Updated -- Virgilio Clarifies] | ColdFusion | Cold Fusion | Free Energy !()

  • Zamboni

    Is Italy now world’s cold fusion leader ?

    • Zamboni

      I think the “Roman Empire” is comming back after long time of absence.

      • Zamboni

        I will start learning Italian to understand probably the secrets of Cold Fusion.

    • Illuminator

      Piantelli’s about to receive an offer he simply can’t refuse.

      You didn’t see nothin. Fogetabouit.

      • Zamboni

        Don’t allow the American thiefs to steal the European scientists as usual.

        • Allen McCloud

          Resistance is futile. muahahahah!

  • GreenWin

    Good for Piantelli to grasp the opportunity to prosper from his pioneering LENR research. But we can be reasonably assured these very small commercial ventures are little more than shiny objects to distract the LENR faithful.

    The level of government investment in previously black LENR programs (e.g. Navy/DARPA/SRI/Energetics and Italian ENEA) indicate a lot more than Piantelli’s hat in hand fund raising. There is large scale disclosure of LENR and other energy systems on the way. It is part of the major shift in consciousness that is expanding across the planet.

    The old school “priests” and NWO overseers’ fiefdoms are crumbling like the walls of Jericho. Awakening consciousness is the modern Gabriele’s horn. Heavens, at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised to hear Obama announce a White House meeting with enlightened entities from galaxy Pleiades!!

  • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

    I think he meant heat generators rather than electrical generators.

    • Gary Wright

      We will get an answer to this Rossi/Piantelli patent controversy real soon now because Rossi was just told his EPO patent application review will start within five months.

      Gary Wright

      • Hank Mills

        Regardless how the patent issue goes, Andrea Rossi will be marketing his 600C cold fusion technology and changing the world. Piantelli, DGT, Brillion, Widom Larsen cultists, and the rest of the Ni-H wannabes have not demonstrated the ability to produce practical amounts of output. Rossi can produce kilowatts of output from a reactor core the size of a D Cell battery. It will be great to see his competitors who are going around the internet bashing him scatter to the four winds, trying to find new careers.

        • dsm

          Hank
          .
          Who will come to market 1st. John Rohner & PlasmERG or Rossi ?
          .
          I’m betting on John Rohner.
          .
          DSM

          • Robert

            DSM is there some info we’ve missed on plasm erg. No demo no beta testing he hasn’t shown anything yet. U always want proof where are u getting yours I’ve looked at lots of info on them and they say their comming to market soon. Without any long term testing it’s not how things should be done. Coming to market with a flawed device. Are you buying one??

          • dsm

            Robert

            I have none ! – that is my point !.

            One of the Rohner companies (not John’s IIRC) got $16 million in investment funds in the mid 2000s & still had nothing to show for it.

            So what makes any of us believe Rossi will come to market ahead of PlasmERG ? – both are claiming they have a product ?. Rohner says he is already starting commercial production.

            DSM

          • Hank Mills

            I do not know who will come to the market first, Rossi or PlasmERG. I think if PlasmERG comes to the market first, all cold fusion researchers may have a problem.

          • dsm

            Hank

            On that we agree 100%.

            Any working Papp engine available on the market would change the dynamics greatly.

            I only wish John Rohner had let someone (anyone) see a working prototype. Despite his claim of being ready for commercial sale, I can find nothing anywhere that confirms anyone but Rohner claiming the engine currently works or has been demonstrated.

            But if it were & will be, it will change the whole free energy ballpark.

            DSM

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            @Hank Mills “I think if PlasmERG comes to the market first, all cold fusion researchers may have a problem.”

            Not really – its ‘horses for courses’. Papp engines would be ideal for small vehicles including boats and planes, and for small generators (inc. domestic?). However the idea of generating megawatts of power with reciprocating engines is pretty inconceivable, and CF reactors would be the power source of choice for grid energy, larger ships, industrial power and similar applications.

            Either emerging into the ‘real world’ would be good!

        • s

          You sound very confident in Rossi. Do you have proof of independent third party verification that the Ecat can produce a continuous COP of 6 over at least 24hrs?

  • georgehants

    Has Piantelli ever commented on Rossi’s work and claims.

    • GreenWin

      I don’t know the answer to that George. But it is interesting to note the history of cold fusion products for sale to the public. Here is a repost of a VERY interesting company and product selling LENR 20 years ago!

      In 1992, well after the world had been misdirected by “experts” (e.g. Huizenga, Parker, Ballinger, etc.)calling cold fusion a fraud – a little Japanese company began to offer for public sale a Cold Fusion Kit. These kits were designed to reproduce hard evidence of LENR effect found by Dr. Eiichi Yamaguchi – cold fusion pioneer.

      The name of that little Japanese Company? Nippon Telephone and Telegraph.

      http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19921127&slug=1526892

      Where were skeptos when this flim flam, snake-oil-selling (no offense Mr. kirvit) company demanded money up front before even assembling their product???

      BTW, Dr. Yamaguchi is Chair of the Fukushima Project documenting “TEPCO’s Criminal Error and The Media’s Responsibility.” Another nail in fission’s coffin.

      http://www.fccj.or.jp/node/7296

    • Hank Mills

      Yes, he falsely claims that Rossi has stolen his technology. The fact of the matter is that Piantelli has never been able to produce practical amounts of power. Rossi has been able to do so, and Piantelli is extremely jealous.

      • dsm

        Hank

        Can you provide any links related this this claim ?

        Thanks

        DSM

        • Hank Mills

          I cannot provide it, because I refuse to drive traffic to the site of Rossi’s enemies.

        • Hank Mills

          I will provide this quote, but not a URL. This is from Piantelli. A Google search can help you find this.

          —–

          For the patent I do not want give judgments, I leave history to explain the things. For pity I do not want to enter in the merit of the patent and of the nonsense and of the huge mistakes in it. However from a brief inquiry regarding the reliability of the company and on the people that caught Focardi and performed the experiment, something dirty and contradictory is emerging. After receiving some news from Focardi, they built a similar cell to the one documented in [my] the old patent [application] (lapsed as the fees were not paid) using for the active core one of the components covered in the patent (the powder) to increase the active surface. The purpose, to obtain more energy. So the [Rossi] patent is not valid because the system had already been published and there is no novelty. Now the pirates want to defraud someone by trying to sell the (counterfeit) patent.

          • dsm

            Hank

            How do you turn those comments into your claim that Piantelli said Rossi has stolen anything !.

            That letter states nothing about ‘Rossi has stolen’ does it !.

            It spells out quite clearly that Piantelli let the patent lapse (which he regrets).

            But no ‘stolen’ anything.

            Thanks

            DSM

          • Hank Mills

            “So the [Rossi] patent is not valid because the system had already been published and there is no novelty. Now the pirates want to defraud someone by trying to sell the (counterfeit) patent.”

            What he is falsely asserting here is that Rossi is a pirate and is trying to defraud him.

          • dsm

            Hank

            That bears no resemblance to you say Piantelli said Rossi had “stolen” his whatever.

            Also you have misread what you did post. Lets examine it …

            “Now the pirates want to defraud someone by trying to sell the (counterfeit) patent.”

            What he is saying is that he believes Rossi’s patent is invalid because of prior art. He then says he believes Rossi will be defrauding people to whom he sells this (counterfeit) patent. That is not saying “Rossi has stolen my ip” as you claimed he had said. Nothing like it at all !.

            Also you will well know that Rossi got his Apr 2008 patent through the system in Italy 3 months ahead of a law change in Italy that would have prevented it being accepted due to Piantelli’s prior art from his 1995 patent (this was one of the reasons Rossi 2nd international revision was rejected).

            Thanks

            DSM

      • Cesar BP

        Rossi has been able to do what? To produce practical amounts of power? Please post the proofs if you are able to do that.

  • dragon

    Piantelli should make a public test of some kind. I
    t is strange that he did not had enough confidence in his science for the past 15 years and it needed Rossi as a catalyst to come back to Cold Fusion field. It is very strange that. What did he do 15 years? Why he did not made comments like that and visible test starting 1995 for every year showing improvements.

    The truth looks like Piantelli was so far of any meaningful result that it made him despair and drop the research, just like Fleischmann and Pons did after 1996-97 when they pretty much broke up with Cold Fusion field.

    My question is what happened in the last 17 years after 1995 with Piantelli research and why he goes more public now?

    • daniel maris

      Yes, I find this very disappointing. Really, surely after all this length of time they should be further forward. I can’t believe it’s all down to money.

      I think Piantelli has to be far more open if he wants people to invest.

      What is he playing at?

    • Robert Mockan

      At a guess maybe it was pathological skepticism by the scientific community in general, lack of professional support even by his peers, lack of funding, and so on. Piantelli had articles published in scientific journals in the early 90s, and more than one patent on the process. But for 20 years no one beat a path to his door. In my own experience even in causal conversation with business associates in the early 90s, the greatest cause for resistance to being taken seriously was their observation of ridicule heaped upon all cold fusion researchers by government and the controlled media. Notice that even now Piantelli has his hat in hand to ask for funding on some basic research he could not afford to do many years ago.

      • dragon

        If Rossi is for real than it makes Piantelli completely obsolete. It is like Piantelli is still in 1995 and is “just” starting to work more seriously on a commercial device, while Rossi is so 2012, having a 600C reactor that works for months with less than 10 grams of Nichel and is almost ready for production of electric energy.

        These are indeed very interesting times and I can’t wait to see how it will end. Even if Rossi is complete fraud, I will feel compelled to give him an Oscar or something for making all of us so hopeful and engaged in improving human condition.
        But if he is not a fraud, than he will go in history more than as an inventor.

        • Robert Mockan

          Although he was not able to sustain it, some of the experiments Piantelli ran went over 1400 C (known by the melting of the thermocouple wires used to measure temperature). This was before Rossi even started doing cold fusion experiments. It would be a mistake to rule Pinatelli out just yet. One thing though working against him now is that he is 78 years old. He is past the prime of most men trying to keep the clock ticking. Eventually no matter how strong the spirit, the weakness of flesh overcomes every effort to hold back time.

      • daniel maris

        OK, but they are saying they DO already have investors. Why this pantomime of seeking out what is a pretty small sum from tiny investors? It seems a huge distraction from the matter in hand – which is producing a well attested working generator.

    • Hank Mills

      The problem with Piantelli performing a public test is that he would not be able to produce practical amounts of output. It would make his tech look pathetic compared to Rossi’s.

      • dsm

        Hank,
        .
        Again to do have links to anything substantive & credible that supports this POV ?
        .
        Also your prior comment that Piantelli claims Rossi had “stolen his invention” is also a very serious and unpleasant accusation – I asked you to provide any evidence that Piantelli said that.
        .
        And you know perfectly well that Piantelli’s 1995 patent lapsed and thus *anyone* can use the ip it contained. There can be no theft. So again I challenge you back up your claim that Piantelli said Rossi had “stolen” his ip ? – where ?.
        .
        DSM

  • Barry

    If this was a horse race, I would put my money on Francesco Piantelli. Not only because he is one of the most deserving, but seems the most solid and has the least amount of red flags.

    Maybe I’ll go and drain my bank accout. How many euros can I buy for twelve dollars.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Eight or nine. Almost enough to buy Greece, c/w DGT!

      • Robert

        No need to buy it, just show up it’s the one that says “free stuff” on it

  • Pete

    If the biggest part of the stocks is “traded to medium-large companies or investors of a certain level”.

    Why bothering with the little fish. Because Mr. Piantelli is such a nice guy?

    Don’t get it.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Roy Virgilio explained why: to give everybody, especially early investors, a chance to participate in this endeavour and eventually profit from it on the mid to long term.

      Another reason for this is that in this way the company isn’t controlled just by big investors, or so I remember reading from Roy’s messages last year.

      I know it sounds… questionable, and I won’t be putting money on this myself or suggest others to do so either, at the very least not before proper third party validation will show.

      Supposedly more information will be posted soon (this Saturday during an event in Italy, I think?) by Roy Virgilio.

      • daniel maris

        They could do that at any point they like. Why now? If they have the experimental evidence I think they can raise the money easily and raising money from tiny investors would be a distraction at this stage surely – think of all the admin effort required!

        In many ways I find Rossi far more convincing than Piantelli now.

    • daniel maris

      I agree, that makes no sense. If they already have investors and they have the evidence of successful tests, I find it difficult to imagine they can’t raise 100,000 – be they dollars, euros or pounds.

  • Akira Shirakawa

    Hello everybody,

    I originally wanted to post this on Vortex-l but it looks like the server is having problems accepting new messages. Since I think the new information added by Roy Virgilio is quite relevant (it completes what he’s written yestedday), I’m posting here a link to the email I was supposed to send to the list. I will send a copy to vortex-l as soon as possible.

    E-Catworld admin, please feel free to edit the content of this email as you see fit.

    http://www.pasteall.org/32897/text

    Cheers,
    S.A.

    • admin

      Thanks very much Akira– the information you sent has been added to the original post.

      Frank

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Still very much at the ‘Edison’ stage then! That is the way to go – theory can follow later.

    • Sanjeev

      It looks like he needs funds to make a reliable prototype. There is some chance that he will be able to do so. Its more like asking for venture funds.

      Anyway its a good news. In absence of govt funding and big cos turning their backs to LENR, this is the only way to secure funds. All researchers should go this way – private funding.

      Another good way is sites like KickStarter.com and there are many more such sites.
      http://www.inc.com/magazine/201111/comparison-of-crowdfunding-websites.html

      Here the risk is that professional fraudsters will see it as an opportunity to make quick money and there can be 100s of such cos in the name of LENR asking for investment. This can have adverse effect on LENR research.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      Thanks! I couldn’t have translated all of that by myself. I only know basic Italian.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

    Wasn’t there supposed to be a connection between Piantelli and Defkalion at some point? I remember that a photo that DGT published in one of their presentations had ‘piantelli-engine’ embedded in the html. Perhaps Piantelli did some work for them after the Rossi bust-up, but didn’t get any residual income defined in a contract, and is now out to get a return on his work.

    His ‘system’ at one point seemed extremely simple – little more than a rod of nickel heated in a hydrogen atmosphere. Perhaps he has simply refined this, by for instance passing current though nickel resistance wire in hydrogen. The trick would be actually extracting heat, possibly by circulating the hydrogen as the coolant, or just possibly he may have found a useable thermoelectric phenomenon of some kind.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      I surrounded that second paragraph with fake html ‘wild speculation mode’ markers, but the blog engine stripped these out!

      • Frank

        It would be better to put the ‘wild speculation’ tag onto the whole e-catworld blog, not just on one paragraph!

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          True, but we have to fill the fact vacuum somehow!

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Thinking about the DGT reactor design, if nickel wire is the substrate for Piantelli’s process, it could simply be wound onto ceramic rods mounted centrally in hydrogen filled stainless steel tubes (DGT’s ‘reactor’), which in turn could be in direct contact with a primary coolant such as an oil or glycol. The thermal mass of the inert cores might add stability to the LENR reaction, as well as supporting the hot wire.

      /end wild speculation mode

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      If (a very large ‘if’ on several fronts) DGT could take Piantelli’s basic system and make a working prototype in just a few months, then presumably Piantelli might be able to do the same, given the funding he appears to be seeking.

      If he knows that DGT have a working device then he could be certain that it is possible, which would remove most of the risk from such a venture from his POV. IP war may well be on the horizon.

  • dsm6

    This google translation is close enough to spell out the situation. What the investment is is speculative investment (what can be called Angel investment). They are implying years of work. But that is being honest so it will not be a case of we have a working prototype ready. Kind of shoots down my most recent post where I was hoping they did have something.

    ********************************************
    ROY’s Post (a response to Shirakawa’s questions)
    Hello everyone,
    Say starting from
    @ Shirakawa – We talk about fundraising, but there were no reports of third-party validation?

    Here I see you need to clarify a point. Piantelli NOT HAVE A PRODUCT READY. Do not have a box to sell. Rossi is not. Change your point of view.
    The fundraising is done to finance the construction of the prototype. We Search. We do not sell anything.

    This is about betting. Risk.
    The Metalenergy is the company, a subsidiary of Nickenergy (Piantelli created directly by the company and a few other close associates), which is the exclusive European sales of the FUTURE of any power generating between 101 kW and 7 watts. Or sale of licenses.

    The Nickenergy is only the company, closed door, which manages the laboratory and the development of the discovery. Do research.
    A sprint that this research will have borne fruit enjoyment of these will come through Metalenergy. Who is in the Metalenergy enjoy so at that point in earnings and direct royalties to be derived from the sale of products throughout Europe.

    CURRENTLY who enters Metalenergy Nickenergy finances effectively, and allows him to complete the research and development.

    To summarize, the fundraiser we’re going to open soon will be to fund the research and development of prototype and if all goes well until you can see the benefits to be derived from the sale of products that DEPEND on research today.
    So who wants to put some money, it will almost be considered as a donation or to lose or, more realistically, as an investment medium / high risk.
    But there is this to consider: the Association will purchase a share of metalenergy say that today is worth 100,000 euros.
    This quote in a few months or a year (as the work progresses and the goal becomes closer) would be worth say 200,000. Because in the meantime the risk that the work end in a nothing done will be decreased drastically.
    So who will come after, risking less, but will have to pay double or take half the shares. And so on.

    Furthermore, for me fundamental thing, will not have collaborated to the realization of this adventure historical, and to the coming of a new epoch in which the energy will be clean and abundant.

    I hope that now the picture is clearer.
    However, all these things we will explain in more documents being prepared.
    We, again and out, we do not want to sell you anything, you do not want to cheat. This is only actively participate in the financing and completion of a research and development of a product that can improve their lives. Who believes can participate, those who prefer to buy a black box that works …. MAYBE IF we can do it.

    Roy
    ******************************************
    Shirakawa reply to Roy (rough google)

    Thanks for your detailed answer. Certain passages were not very clear in my opinion and subject to misunderstanding, now it’s all a bit ‘less nebulous. `I’ll turn the updates to the proper authorities.

    I remain personally the idea that the prof. Piantelli may overreach a bit ‘most in providing informative material about the status of his work. So far (since this thread is created) and it is virtually always spoken of only investments, and it is this that I find at least singular.

    If you convince the scientific community (that too, unfortunately, the author of the petition against piezonucleare) that LENR are a reality, then the investment would not be a problem … more but on this point however that such carry-overs for the Professor could take up to a year to raise funds needed for research remaining. To me it leaves very confused.

  • Dsm7

    Re that presentation. 1st time I saw it it was clear that much of the charts & data was years old. The talk of what experiments they wanted to do sound much more like what they had been & were currently completing.

    I was left with the clear impression they were holding back & whilst i don’t know why Piantelli didn’t present, I wondered if he being the professional he is, didn’t want to be seen in any way to be holding back. However if the current repeated comments that NicHenergy are ready to go commercial then I have a reason why Piantelli didn’t present that old data himself.

    If there is sincere hope that anyone can deliver and do it in an honest & way, it would IMHO be Piantelli who would do it.

    Here’s hoping he does.

    DSM

    • georgehants

      Dsm, If Piantelli has the goods then all power to him, but do you agree that as Rossi (Defkalion) are not out of the picture (yet), they would be miles ahead of the others.
      Therefore using the word, Hope, it becomes most appropriate, if one has no political leanings, but just cares about the Wonderful gain for humanity of Cold Fusion whatever the source, to wish Rossi et al, god speed.

      • dsm6

        For me it was hope that someone who can be trusted not to mislead or spin what they are doing. Piantelli seems more that kind of person as well as having the essential credentials.

        What I am now thinking is it is time to chase other interests as whatever transpires is going to take years no matter who delivers the goods.

        Cheers DSM

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          That may be true of Piantelli, and possibly to a degree of Rossi, DGT, Brillouin et al., but who knows who else has been plugging away at what is beginning to seem like a widespread phenomenon that can be expressed in any number of guises?

          If nothing else, Rossi has at least made it ‘semi respectable’ to make CF claims in public, even though many establishment physicists would clearly like to see the lot of them burned at the stake without further ado.

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    It looks like Roy Virgilio wrote a followup post here:

    http://www.energeticambiente.it/sistemi-idrogeno-nikel/14742857-novit%C3%A0-cella-piantelli-7.html#post119337343

    I wonder if it will be properly translated soon.

    • dsm6

      Ivan, Sorry but I meant to post the translation up above, off your post but it ended up stand alone. Thanks for your quick work in reporting all this.

      DSM

  • Pingback: Piantelli Seeking Investments | E-Cat News Live Feed()

  • georgehants

    A safer route to a nuclear future?
    June 13, 2012
    A safer route to a nuclear future?
    “Nuclear.” Credit: Andrea Kirby
    By using thorium instead of uranium as fuel, nuclear power could be safer and more sustainable, according to new research.
    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-safer-route-nuclear-future.html

    • Filip

      Thorium technology for nuclear power is as old as uranium technology, but the US choosed for uranium because they could extract plutonium for bombs which is not possible with thorium.

      • Camilo

        The whole issue of Thorium Fluoride nuclear reactors is as interesting as the LENR field. It’s another proof that politics and power are behind controlling the energy industry, and not with the wellfare of mankind in mind.

  • georgehants

    Submitted to J. Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, June 2012
    An explanation of low energy nuclear reactions (cold fusion)
    Edmund Storms
    KivaLabs. Santa Fe, NM
    ABSTRACT
    A plausible nuclear-active-environment in which LENR occurs is identified by ruling out various
    possibilities and by identifying an environment that is common to all successful methods. When this
    environment is combined with a plausible mechanism, many testable predictions result. These insights and
    proposals are offered to help clarify understanding of LENR and to suggest future studies. The common
    environment in which LENR occurs is proposed to be cracks of a critical size, followed by a resonance
    process that dissipates energy by X-ray emission based on a laser-like process. The LENR behavior has the
    potential to test the Standard Model of nuclear interaction.
    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEanexplanat.pdf

  • Camilo

    Awesome news to see Piantelly, the original “culprit” of Nickel-H LENR, going in the market direction. Very good news indeed!!! and also, the use of the word “generator” instead of “reactor”.

  • chris robinson

    “acquire a share of the Metalenergy company which holds an exclusive European license on generators with ranges from 101 W to 7 kW”

    I thought Rossi held the Italian patent or am I missing something here .???
    If all these LENR devices are essentially based on the same type of phenomena , I would assume that this cold fusion saga will follow the same legal scenario as other similar breakthroughs in technology where several companies will start cross litigation against one another ,which usually brings the whole process to a grinding halt ,until tested in a court of law .

    • dsm

      Piantelli filed the 1st Ni+H patent in Italy then & internationally in 1995. But he let it lapse.

      Andrea Rossi based his eCat experiments on that lapsed patent & managed to file his own (Rossi’s) in April 2008 2 months before the Italian patent law was altered such that all patents filed after Jul 1st 2008 would be scrutinized for use of ‘prior art’. Piantelli’s 1995 patent would have qualified as a pretty solid example ‘prior art’. Prior art still applies even if the earlier patent is lapsed.

      Piantelli filed a new patent in Oct 2008 in Italy and that same patent got filed internationally. It was published in 2010.

      In 2011 Piantelli filed 2 more patenst one of which is due for publication in 3-4 months time.

      The issue of patents is critical to getting investment money as few if any big corp investors will put money into an invention that has no patent protection.

      Things may become clearer later this year as 1) the 2011 Piantelli patent will be published and give some clues as to what & how he is trying to patent and 2) word should come through on if Piantelli was successful on getting his 2009 international patent accepted in whatever form (there were some fears his claims #1 & #14 might not be accepted).

      IIRC, Rossi has thus far had his international patent requests (the one he filed in 2009) declined. There was some indication that the reasons for being turned down 1st time was that he cannot claim any ‘secret’ ingredient (immediately invalidated the patent application), he revised it to say it would work without the ‘secret’ ingrediant but IIRC, he was then turned down for a few reasons including established prior art.

      DSM

      • georgehants

        would you agree that Rossi’s strategy (if gen) is to get a lead and stack em high and sell em cheap.
        He would appear to be aware of patent problems, that are determining his, keep things to himself modus operandi.

        • dsm6

          Must admit that the more I look in to Rossi the less I believe he will deliver.

          Am betting already that he will not show a working (validated) eCat at his distributor conference in Oct.

          Also I doubt that anyone can really be sure they understand him.

          Now, if dreams could come true, I would love to see John Rohner deliver a working PlasmERG Papp engine. They would have more impact that a LENR water heater.
          Rohner keeps claiming he is on target for Oct delivery of the 1st engines.

          http://pesn.com/2012/04/15/9602075_Inteligentry_Manufacturers_Gearing_Up_for_Noble_Gas_Engine_Roll-out/

          The Papp story as told by Gene Mallove, is quite incredible. The videos of his working engine are intriguing. But one can’t help wondering where that engine went.

          DSM

          • georgehants

            All of Cold Fusion seems full of uncertainties.
            A certain Mr. Churchill once said, it “is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.”

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Too many of the pieces of the puzzle seem to go missing at one time or another, until they are rediscovered, often many years later. Tesla’s ‘scalar wave’ power transmission systems would be an early example, but it seems that ‘disappearance’ of promising new energy related inventions (and often their inventors) has been the rule rather than the exception for 100 years or more. Some will have been fakes of course, but the pattern of events is often very consistent.

          • jacob

            DSM,i am glad you know about the plasma erg engines,and you are right,if any technology should deliver,it would be plasma erg engines.

            put a running plasma erg engine in any mall or shopping center to educate people that there is no energy shortage,I think this was developed from a 30 year old technology by Joseph Papp.
            this principle can also be use by water vapor explosions as in lightning causing thunder

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            It’s a pity that John Rohner seems such a flake. The battle with his brothers is none too helpful either. The technology seems to be real (I’ll take Eugene Mallove’s word for it, if not Mr Rohner’s) but so far a working Papp engine is just another probability wave function that may or may not collapse into a material object.

          • Gary Wright

            Speaking of other engine types. I knew Melvin Vaux, of (the Bourke engine) fame.

            Mel lived in Arizona, (because he was a pilot), but his machine shop was in Boulder City.
            I used to hang out in his shop and we talked for hours about science, engineering, and technology. He knew a lot.

            We finally figured out that what was really happening inside his versions of the Bourke engine was that a plasma was being created at the moment of detonation.

            Mel passed on not to long after and we never were able to take advantage of our new insight. Mel’s engine was tested at NASA and I read the full report. There was no recordable pollution of any kind. Makes you wonder why things like this don’t ever make it to market.

            Mel’s engine was the only gas fired engine ever certified at that time for use indoors.
            Gary Wright

      • chris robinson

        Many thanks for that comprehensive reply DSM.
        It certainly appears we are in for some interesting legal shenanigans further down the track .

      • Gary Wright

        Rossi asked for clarification of time on his EPO patent application.

        He was told the review process will start within five months.

        Gary Wright

  • Ivan

    LENR. The mistery continues