Leonardo Corp. the Electric Company?

Andrea Rossi has mentioned many times that his only goal for his E-Cat technology is to put working products into the marketplace, and that the only validation that counts is having customers satisfied with working products that save them money.

One of Rossi’s Journal of Nuclear Physics readers, Iggy Dalrymple, proposed a different approach that Rossi might take. His idea was that instead of selling power producing products, that Rossi’s Leonardo sell electricity directly to customers. He said:

You could sell electric power to cities, utility companies, and large industrial users. That way you could better protect your intellectual property. My small town (population 2,500) sells electricity to its citizens, but buys all its power from the grid.

As you know, there are many small remote villages that use diesel generated electricity produced with diesel oil barged in at great expense . . . Some small island states could use your service without any bureaucratic interference.

Rossi’s response: “Our strategy is to sell the reactors, but your suggestion could become of actuality in future.”

If Rossi’s claim of E-Cats producing 600C steam with a COP of 6 using minute amounts of nickel/hydrogen fuel bears out it is feasible that Rossi could build plants that could provide power in the way that Dalrymple proposes. In this scenario it would take more capital outlay on Leonardo’s part since they would be responsible for building, operating and maintaining the plants, but Leonardo would collect all the revenues from electricity sales, and also would remain in control of the reactors, minimizing the possibility of intellectual property being leaked or stolen.

It doesn’t look like this will be Leonardo’s initial strategy if working E-Cats hit the market, but it’s a possibility down the road — and who knows, some of us might find ourselves sending our electric bills to Rossi’s power company.

  • Duane Craps

    I don’t see the grid going away. I for one don’t want 600 degree C heat or high pressure steam anywhere near my house. Has any one of you considered the dangers.

  • George

    The goal has to be to eliminate the grid. This could be a short term solution. However, the grid will NEVER be cost effective or an eco-friendly solution to our energy problems. The grid requires overhead that forces energy prices up NOT down. When energy companies first started promoting nuclear they said they would not have to meter it it would be so cheap. What happened? Politics and overhead force the price to levels that make it about as cost effective as coal. WE MUST ELIMINATE THE GRID!!! If we don’t accomplish that we will never free ourselves from the slavery of energy economics. WE MUST ELIMINATE THE GRID!!!

    • GreenWin

      George I think this will align itself without much external intervention. The idea of transmitting electrical energy great distances is more than a century old. It arose only because it appeared the only way to produce vast amounts of energy and deliver it to customers. The delivery was the motivating force since power companies could charge a meter rate – just as they had when gas lighting arrived.

      But we now know that the universe is a vast sea of energy and tapping it is increasingly simple and clean. The grid will slowly adapt from centralized resources to distributed, localized micro-grids. Micro-grids can keep old utilities in business. Provided they understand their windfall profit, exploitation days are over.

      A micro grid is essentially an energy network. It links one or more local neighborhoods providing backup services to all subscribers and free energy to schools, municipal buildings and non-profit community centers. The future utility makes no energy of its own – rather it collects and stores excess from its subscribers – guaranteeing no blackouts or brown-outs when LENR home units fail. Aka a “District Energy” plan. Just more opportunities for companies who claim to be in the “energy business.”

      As the old grid contracts, we will see vast improvement in land use and quality – following the removal of giant transmission towers and the 600,000 miles of cable. Rivers can be un-dammed and returned to their pristine origins, and drilling, strip mining and mountain top removal will end.

      And the last of the nuke plants can be closed and decommissioned – LENR will provide neutralization of spent fuel. Starting to sound like a healthy member of the family of planets;)

  • Enkidu

    I say let’s leave electricity behind. With these small water heaters/steam generators, I say we move to a SteamPunk future, FTW!

    • GreenWin

      Hugo agrees.

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  • Ivan Mohorovicic
    • Sanjeev

      So why will a sane person invest money on it without a third party validation?

      It would be a great news if he starts the validations just like BLP did. That would be a first in LENR field.

      Did I miss the announcement of any such validation by Piantelli?

      • Ivan Mohorovicic

        >So why will a sane person invest money on it without a third party validation?

        Of course no.

        >Did I miss the announcement of any such validation by Piantelli?

        No, you didn’t. I think more information is yet to come. Roy Virgilio himself reported that he couldn’t tell everything at this time regarding the actual reactors other that they’re are being made and that a company has European rights for 100W-7kW models.

        I **really** don’t think Roy Virgilio and Piantelli’s associates expect people to put any money on this without third party validation.

    • dsm

      I see that further down that original Italian language thread, that Akira Shirakawa has asked the important questions of Roy.

      My translation effort shows Akira asking as posted below …

      DSM

      AKIRA:
      Allow me a couple of blunt questions …
      .
      – There is talk about fundraising, but there were no reports of third-party validation?
      .
      I do not think is proper to expect us to support a project completely in the dark.
      .
      We need it to be presented in detail as to what it is (what, how, when, how long, etc.), but also that someone from outside the parties must take responsibility to certify it is good science and suitable for industrial application.
      .
      – On Metalenergy (NicEnergy?), do we have more information? Do they have a website ?
      .
      – “The development of such generators (already under construction)” – What does this mean exactly? Is it a prototype that is under development ?, or is it that working and tested generators are being built?

  • GreenWin

    Much as we love Iggy’s idea it is not likely the best route for a startup like Rossi. Rossi will do better as he is, licensing his implementation of LENR to national manufacturers – collecting revenue from OEM sales.

    the best analogy is refrigeration. Until 1928 refrigeration in the west was accomplished by the ice box – serviced by the Ice Man. Once or twice a week the Ice Man would deliver ice to your ice box to keep your food fresh. In 1928 the first home Refrigerator went on sale. It revolutionized food storage. In a matter of ten years Refrigerator sales quadrupled and ice boxes faded away. As did the Ice Man – equivalent to your central electric Utility company.

    We don’t need a centralized ice house or Ice Man when we can make our own ice at home. Same with electricity. LENR is the new refrigerator. Little more than a new home appliance sitting in your basement or utility closet. It makes heat for your hot water, and power for your lights and flat screen… It’s not rocket science.

  • georgehants

    June 13, 2012
    Ancient effect harnessed to produce electricity from waste heat
    A phenomenon first observed by an ancient Greek philosopher 2,300 years ago has become the basis for a new device designed to harvest the enormous amounts of energy wasted as heat each year to produce electricity. The first-of-its-kind “pyroelectric nanogenerator” is the topic of a report in ACS’ journal Nano Letters.
    http://phys.org/news/2012-06-ancient-effect-harnessed-electricity.h

  • georgehants

    Physics and Physicists
    ZapperZ’s physics blog on the world of Physics and Physicists.
    Wednesday, June 13, 2012
    Fusion Energy Research Funding Might Be Restored
    Due to the effort of the lone physicist in the US Congress, the US House of Representatives passed a bill to restore funding for fusion energy research, which includes funding for the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab.
    The funding, which supports the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab and other energy research laboratories, was not included in the President Obama’s fiscal year 2013 budget request. Without the funding, the lab would face major cutbacks on research projects and staff reductions of up to 100 people, including scientists, engineers, and lab technicians.
    While I know that Holt has a tie with PPPL, I wonder if he can muster the same support for high energy physics funding, which looks extremely bleak.
    http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/fusion-energy-research-funding-might-be.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/hNAhW+%28Physics+and+Physicists%29

  • http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

    Distributed power will probably be a long time coming. The wealthy and the upper middle class will be the first to adopt it. Those with the least education will be the last. Since it appears to be obvious that Rossi has not created and can’t afford to create his robotized factory producing a million e-cats a year, I think he will only create industrial-sized devices for the first few years since they return the most on his investment, require less labor and have a very logical role. After three or four years, demand will grow for smaller unita that can power housing complexes and a few individual homes; that will be an intermediate stage of distributed power. The last to appear, and then only after a great fight between bureaucrats married to the electric power industry, will be the home-only units and portable units for camping, cookouts, etc.
    Rossi is unlikely to be the leader after the first year; it appears to me that the BlackLight Power hydrino devices will make a very strong debut in a year or so. The really big development – the one that garners a huge amount of publicity – will be the first CIHT-powered vehicle that can go 1,500 miles on a liter of water. Randell Mills seems to suggest that this could happen right away.

    • Robert

      John

      Wake up! BLP is a fraud they’re just trolling for more money. They’ve been at it for along time

      • Wes

        Grand Unified fraud?

    • Andrew Macleod

      I guess you haven’t been following the story for very long. From the get go Rossi has stated his desire to put a product into the hand of all who wants it (the little guy). His main focus Is the smaller home units. I also believe he has some major financial backing and will be the leader out of the gate on this technology. He will have to work very hard to keep his lead.

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        I agree with this analysis. Talking about how “obvious” it is that Rossi has or doesn’t have something which nobody who’s willing to talk will admit to existing seems to be, just possibly, a, a bit…..premature? I’m sure that he will work hard to keep his lead. Maybe Blacklight is set to surge. I don’t know; I can’t tell, for sure, who is right or wrong on that. LENR? Slam dunk. I say the more the merrier. Let the energy evolution begin.

    • GreenWin

      Joe, while understanding the atomic theory behind LENR confounds the world’s physicists (due mostly to lack of funding) – it’s operation does not. Distributed power in the form of CHP is supported by Western and Asian governments as a vital part of their “climate” programs.

      The UK has just increased micro-CHP subsidies intending to double and triple the installed base. Japan will rely heavily on CHP fuel cell and ICE systems to counter loss of nukes.

      All e-cat and Hyperion do is at the moment, boil water. A great feat?? Not really. Sustained 600C heat spinning a steam turbine is a feat. And with the impending collapse of head-in-sand science, one or the other of the now dozens of LENR pioneers will succeed.

      Mills is a bonafide genius. His water cell does work, at a high temp and requires replacing of electrolyte and cathodes eventually. There is little doubt he has this working in the black at kWh level right now.

    • jacob

      Joe Shea,wake up Stanley Meyer already ran a car on water ,so did a Japanese company,so did some one in Australia ,subject water to High Voltage static electricity and Kabang and kabang,nature already demonstrated the millions of times in the form of lightning,not even mentioning high frequency used in
      turning water into splitting the H2O to drive a car.has all been done Joe,oh Joe how about the Joe Cell ,running a car on orgone generated by the Joe Cell ,People wake up , and study history its all been done before.

  • Dave

    Rossi isn’t going to use his E-Cat to product electricity to sell because that would require that his product actually work. He’d rather make claims about it working so he can sell E-Cat franchises to gullible investors.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Are you sure you have the right website, Dave? (and Robert) You might find more like-minded company over at ecat news, or maybe moletrap.co.uk.

      Just a suggestion.

    • GreenWin

      Listen to Peter boys – you’ll be gratified.

  • Robert

    Even small reactors in towns to provide energy would be cheaper than getting ripped off by regional producers at least the jobs produced would be local and voters would have a big say in how it’s run. A reactor in every home is the best choice. I have an order for two with Rossi just in case it’s real better to be in the front of the bus.

    • jacob

      Better to be in the front of the bus,then what established science fraught clubs are doing to Cold Fusion = LENR and threw AR under the bus

  • Distributed Intelligence

    Once this technology is available, there will be demand from both individual users who power their own homes and from central utilities who produce power for mass consumption.

    There will always be a segment of the population who are unwilling or unable to provide for themselves. They will always be grid supplied, even if the grid is powered by LENR.

    What this technology promises is to liberate the families and individuals who are willing and able to be independent. Oddly enough, this independence is a return to the “normalcy” of human experience, where people managed their own resources and generated heat and power through their own faculties.

    As we all should understand by now, urban dependency is a poor choice for human liberty and should be abandoned once technology allows us to return to the sustainable self sufficient model our ancestors enjoyed.

    This technology will enable power a whole magnitude greater than what we now commonly command per capita. If you were to look at the devices and processes that presently utilize that level of energy, imagine a future where those devices and processes are proliferated and controlled by individuals distributed over our entire civilization.

    It will unchain communities from the electrical supply grid, allowing development of remote areas and will hopefully decentralize our society into a structure highly resistant to the collapse of cities and the government models that depended on them.

    • GreenWin

      Very well put. Excellent summation of what lies ahead.

    • Anonymole

      “They will always be grid supplied, even if the grid is powered by LENR.”

      That’s like saying there will always be telco land lines. Now that’s a dying venue if there ever was one. In 50 years there will be no land lines left. And if this NFE pans out, no electricity transmission lines either. Clear skies – no wires to get in the way of my LENRcraft’s landing and take-off.

    • jacob

      YOU got it DI,overpopulation is then no longer a problem,people can move anywhere in the world and start their own self supporting greenhouse and raise their own food supply ,and trade these for other needed products and not need a job but be self employed to replicate and supply new technology
      to planet earth.
      Career choices are obvious ,those that have been awakened to LENR,and other overunity technologies can get ready to help implement these new devices
      and such to the world.

  • Lu

    The problem with the E-Cat as best I can tell is that you cannot just turn it on and off. It takes upwards of one hour to turn on and upwards of one hour to turn off. This may be gotten better with the newer E-Cat core Rossi is experimenting with but it still probably will be far from instantaneous.

    This means that the home E-Cat is probably not a good candidate for home electrical use because electrical demand varies widely and that electrical generation has to match load at all times. The power companies do this with the grid for us and we don’t notice except that perhaps the voltage or cycles may vary somewhat throughout the day.

    For heating systems the E-Cat can run at a given level and any additional heat not required can be vented. Additional electricity might be diverted to say a flywheel or battery but this makes using the home E-Cat for electricity more complex and expensive.

    This leaves us with the grid where E-Cats can be used to generate base loads much as coal and now natural gas is being used. Sure it’s not as efficient as home use and we are still “paying the man” but perhaps electricity generation can be decentralized somewhat into mini power plants closer to the source of use. I definately see this as a business opportunity for Rossi.

    • GreenWin

      Lu, in fact both the UK DCE? (Energy Dept) and U.S. DOE are supporting the “District CHP” model. Secretary Chu recently visited the largest District CHP project in USA indicating support for small micro-grids serving highly localized industrial and residential areas.

      The micro-grid and district CHP IS an opportunity for utilities. In fact only by adopting these concepts will they avoid going BK. The plans for District micro-CHP driven grids are underway at energy planning levels.

      Load following is not an issue when the generating capicity exceeds demand. A 7.5kW electrical capacity should suffice for most U.S. residential homes. Voltage regulation buffers loads and grid connected CHP presently draw needed current from grid on demand. Conversely they sell excess to grid at night and during low local demand.

      Both Rossi and Defkalion will do well to work with established CHP engineers and systems to provide the G2LENR connections (Grid to LENR) Local utilities have a huge opportunity to build the world’s new micro-grid infrastructure.

      • jacob

        well said

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  • Karl

    For your information.

    Mats Lewan reporter of NyTeknik.se wrote a number of articles about the Rossi E-Cat demonstrations.

    Mats has now been awarded chief editor of a technical newspaper own be the same group as NyTeknik called NEXT MAGASIN http://www.nyteknik.se/tidningen/article3492040.ece.

    This will hopefully also open up possibilities for him to cover the emerging CF/LENR.

    • GreenWin

      Thanks Karl. NEXT looks to be a valuable new approach to state of the art technology. With Mats Lewan heading it – it should be exciting. For those interested the first issue of NEXT Magazine is FREE from the website Karl posted.

  • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

    More ‘not off topic at all’ for a quiet time:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/036159_zombies_sociopaths_deniers.html

    Just a bit of fun. Personally I wouldn’t discriminate between ‘sociopaths’ and ‘schemers’. Most of us here will obviously be ‘protectors’ of course.

    • georgehants

      If the World is a Rat-race then many people will become Rats. (in the philosophical sense).
      Rats are socially and mentally far advanced of many people.

  • georgehants

    Not off topic at all.
    Science at it’s staggering best.
    After much research and expense science has determined that the more it rains the wetter the top soil will be.
    But if their are long periods between rainfalls then the topsoil will drain into the subsoil.
    Is it possible that a ten minute chat with a farmer down the pub would have led to the same conclusion.
    http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/49913

    • dragon

      Didn’t you know? Without Peer reviewed research and tons of repeatable experiments mankind will never know that if it rains the top soil is wet and that later this water goes to the sub-soil. Lucky us, we leave in a highly scientific world where we can find these universal truth about water and soil.

      I really despise the fact that all our ancestors dared to worked the land without peer reviewed research and tons of repeatable experiments.
      Shame on them for being so…so.. FREEEEEEE!!!

      • Ged

        My brain hurts. I guess they never heard of a percolation hole…

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        You guys are a crackup.

  • georgehants

    About 18 months of the Rossi saga now, there is still no conclusive Evidence that he is Genuine or otherwise.
    Much circumstantial Evidence for the positive but still waiting for indisputable Proof.
    In 18 months no other group has so far to my knowledge claimed replication of a commercial COP6 event except Defkalion who’s source, if confirmed is still a mystery.
    Cold Fusion of some kind though is now beyond dispute, and science is being rightly judged by it’s actions concerning a World changing technology.
    So far science looks like the dumb kid in the class, unable to handle anything beyond spending 15 years arguing about if Pluto is a planet, something that would be clear to a 5 year old, it purely depends on where one arbitrarily draws a distinguishing mass line on a graph.
    And as the World likes Pluto just draw the bloody line 1mm below the mass of Pluto.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      George, you’re beginning to sound almost as pi$$ed off as most of the rest of us about the antics of both the cold fusion inventors, and the ‘scientific community’!

      Welcome to the chimpanzee’s tea party!

      • daniel maris

        Yes, we should start up a “plague on both your houses” constituency.

        I am certainly tired of Rossi’s prognostications backed up by nothing in this year. We need something credible from both him and Defkalion – not more reports of tests or reports of sales.

        Equally I decry the certainty of the deniers. There is clearly so much that mainstream physicists do not know about behaviour at the sub-atomic level that a little humility would not go amiss.

        It’s also time for some of the profs promoting LENR to come up with something better than a microwatt demo at MIT.

        • Barry

          Daniel, the work a MIT was going to shift from palladium – deuterium to nickel – hydrogen based on the findings of Professor Piantelli, but as you know the donated funds got turned away.

          • GreenWin

            A polite way of saying the funds were kidnapped unceremoniously by a “famous MIT physicist” who’s desperate to protect his hot fusion fiefdom.

            Not much longer.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          I would generally have little time for Donald Rumsfeld, but his oft-quoted 2002 speech seems apposite in connection with the attitude of many scientists:

          “Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.”

          • Andrew Macleod

            Exactly “we don’t know what we don’t know!”. For all we know our current understanding of physics could be limited to our own planet or solar system. It’s not how the universe works, it’s just how it works around here.

          • GreenWin

            Yes, we only see our universe through a very limited set of 5 organic sensors. Since it is with those sensors we have built a broader range of sensors (telescopes, spectrometers, etc) – they remain limited to our perception of the universe.

            Imagine if we had evolved a psi capability and built technology based on it.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Not only do we perceive our 3D universe through a limited set of sensors, but we are mentally incapable of conceptualising the further spatial dimensions that physics requires to describe the universe more completely. We are ‘flatworlders’ in a multi-dimensional space.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      Any 5 year old knows that Pluto is a dog 🙂

      • georgehants

        Good one Pekka, Ha.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        Certain scientists excepted of course!

      • Robert Mockan

        A dog? I though Pluto was Popeyes’ rival for the affections of Olive Oyl.

        • Barry

          You’re thinking of Bloto.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          ‘Bluto’ if I remember rightly. It has been 40 or 50 years since I last watched a Popeye cartoon though!

          • georgehants

            If Rossi or somebody doesn’t come up with something soon we are all going to be talking Ga Ga.

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Miles to go before we reach that point, obviously.

          • GreenWin

            Go next door. It’s bound to be on again soon.

        • Barry

          Not to mention Olive Oyl’s brother, Caster

      • jacob

        I think its Plunto

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          George was right.

          • jacob

            ok

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      (more humour)George has seen this, but others maybe not: “Freeing from dogma, Primate style” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCuxabHGe5Q)

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        One or two of them probably still believe that the universe is rectangular and about 5m across.

        • georgehants

          Hey, thats my theory you’ve pinched.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          What they saw ‘outside’ was obviously an elaborate scam of some kind!

          • Hampus

            We are all in the matrix, I knew it!!

          • Wes

            @Hampus. and… the velocity of light reveals the clock speed limit in this sim.

      • GreenWin

        Pekka, here’s a primate that IS smarter than a human…

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01by613

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Did you notice the fully upright, bipedal chimp in Pekka’s clip? He/she should probably be sent to a human school!

    • Ivan

      Words, words and more words, Where is the bloody evidence

      • jacob

        you are standing on the evidence,it is called
        planet earth and it’s part of this solar system of the milky way Galaxy ,look at a tree it takes CO2 and turns it into wood fiber and we benefit and get O2 it surely should be called Cold Fusion of the molecules .

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  • georgehants

    Know your ‘troll’: UK considers law disclosing users’ identities
    Editor’s Note: If this legislation makes it to the US, the jobs of thousands of paid trolls working inside the D.C. beltway could be at risk. But much worse – and actually more serious than this however, is the government’s desire to enact legislation based on political correctness and unleash the thought police on millions of users every hour – further regulating ALL speech on the internet.
    British internet users may soon have an opportunity of meeting those who ‘troll’ them face to face. The parliament is considering a legislation making website operators to identify users posting defamatory comments.
    http://www.infowars.com/know-your-troll-uk-considers-law-disclosing-users-identities/

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      I agree with Admin’s comment. While this legislation is probably proposed with the best of intentions, it is a small step from disclosure of the identity of someone who defames someone else, to disclosure of the identity of people who ‘defame’ governments or their agencies, or malfeasant corporations by revealing inconvenient facts. Such identification would allow prosecutions in order to make ‘examples’ and suppress valid dissent and disclosure.

      Even if this is not the intention, you can be pretty sure it will be the reality, just as ‘anti-terrorist’ legislation is misused on an industrial scale by police forces everywhere.

  • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    That idea would be another 5 years business plan.

    Hopefully that is somewhere farther down the road
    as it would also have the effect of concentrated
    central control if it excluded independent small
    installation.

    Even the largest multinational power boiler companies do not directly own the utilities they sell to as it is a different sphere of business operation.

    In theory he could also be an independent auto
    manufacturer and use the invention only for that purpose but that would a big plan taking more than 3 to 9 months.

  • wolfgang gaerber

    In the “open” energy market, I pay 50% for actual consumption + 50% as grid “fee”.
    If the costs for primary energy would be a fifth – there would be still 80% for grid and fees.
    Cheap electric energy would mean higher consumption, needing investment into the grid, even further raising grid costs.

    This means that producing off-grid gen-sets would pay off dramatically.

    To sum it up – why maintaining a grid ?
    The reason for having the grid is the size of Powerplants and the availability of renewable energy. If you have a compact and scalable decentralized supply – there would be no need for a grid anymore – and electricity would be almost for free.

    • Hampus

      Well said! I agree.

    • GreenWin

      And we could tear down those giant power line towers that spread 600,000 miles of wire across North America.

  • Jeff

    I have an idea for a different different approach he could take: sell something.

    • Josh

      +1

  • Guru

    80 years back industrial companies sell to folks ice. In old detective books it is. Today all folks own their own fridge.

    The same fate will with electric companies and Dalrymple dream of selling ten times cheaper electricity via centralized system.

    I know, Satanists and Baphomet Adorers would like to sell air gas to folks, however in today situation it is slightly unpractical.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Who’s the dreamer? A biased patent office and a recalcitrant UL are reality.

      It took 75 years to legalize self-serve gas stations.

      • Guru

        In other more decent way:

        1 dollar of Rossi’s investment in build/sell HARDWARE will gain X dollars in Rossi’s immediate profit.

        1 dollar of dreamed potential Rossi’s investment in sell electricity (for competitive lower price) will gain 15 times lesser profit in longer timeframe then selling hardware.

        Rossi stated he consider selling electricity, so he is not capable doing this math.
        After Rossi hire some high school administrative assistent, such person will doing math. simple con analysis and will inform Mr. Rossi. Informed Mr. Rossi will understand that it is only dreamer’s dream.

        Selling Hardware is 10-15 times better profit.

        Selling production licenses in Defkalion way is even 6 times better profir then build and selling hardware alone.

        • Iggy Dalrymple

          So are you saying that Campbell’s erred in selling soup rather than their condenser machines?

          Did Westinghouse and Edison screw up when they sold electricity?

          Does the mob earn more selling “protection” or by selling “hit jobs”?

          J P Morgan fired Tesla when he realized there would be no paying subscribers.
          ~~~~~~~~
          I never suggested that Rossi sell power to the retail public. I suggested that he consider becoming a wholesale electric producer, selling to cities (cities that own their micro-grid), industrial users, and to the retail utility companies. The reason was that by retaining ownership and control of his machines, he could better protect his intellectual property.

          For my own self-interest, I’d prefer to own my own home heater/generator.

  • atanguy

    To me the beauty of LENR would be to produce energy and electricity individually and in a decentralize fashion. Why would you reproduce the centralized energy of our current society?

    • Cliff Bradley

      Totally agree

      • Geode

        Thinking of Ecats that feed a grid in a centralized manner sounds like one of the saddest, most disappointing misuses of the technology that I can think of…

        I will certainly further articulate my opinion on this topic in a near future on this website and on Mr. Andrea Rossi’s web site. He has seamed, until now, humbly and smartly receptive towards “common peoples ” opinions, when brought forward with a rational .

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          It is sad, but that’s the world we live in. Local (LENR) generation of electricity may still eventually appear where there is no existing grid, and possibly in 15-20 years elsewhere, as existing centralised generation plant and ‘wind farm’ generators time-expire. Some part of the nationals grids will probably have to remain for a long time, for demand balancing and energy storage.

    • Tom

      That’s what I’m rooting for too. A 100% self sustaining home. But many people would most likely prefer to pay slightly more for electricity than to have a nuclear reactor to care for. It would still be decentralised in that small communities would produce their own power instead of one big conglomerate for the entire state/country.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        We all know what you want but have you considered that Rossi might want to protect his intellectual property?

  • john E

    People are anxious to receive inexpensive, accessible energy— not necessarily own inexpensive, accessible energy technology or machines. This will be mane circumstances where this model would make practical sense.

    At least initially.

    • john E

      pardon the typing. I meant to type:

      “there will be many circumstances where this model would be welcome and make practical sense”.

      • Jim

        Also, forgot to include that a small portable version of the ecat&generator would be great for camping, outings, or boats.

    • Jim

      I personally would prefer to own my own cheap fusion generator that provides electricity. I hate having brownouts and spikes because people in the neighborhood turned on their AC.

      I also like the idea of having x amount of power available without worrying about having to pay per 1Kw, plus delivery charges plus taxes, plus mysterious fees I can’t understand.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        It seems probable that ‘mysterious fees’ will remain for as long as we have a parasitic ‘governing class’ to support.