Rossi Talks of Breakthrough: Stability at ‘Very High’ Temperatures



Two recent posts by Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics speak of a considerable breakthrough that he seems very excited about. We know that Rossi has been in search of high temperature steam in order to create efficient electricity. He has said for a while now that instability in his reactor has prevented him from achieving this goal, although he has mentioned progress has been made.

Now he is speaking of a breakthrough in this area. Here are his posts:

May 4th

Dear Fabio:
Thank you for your kind attention.
You are right: some puppett is trying to stop our work saying we cannot go on selling a producte that is not well known. Note: first they said my product was bullshit, now they have to change channel and try to raise the safety problem. But , as we always said, our product will hit the non military market only after due certification; besides, we know very well our product and how it works, so it is wrong to say we do not know how the E-Cat works. About the market: you are right again, People will vote with their money and decide if the E-Cat works or not.
By the way: we are working very hard on the temperatures, and we have reached a tremendous goal in the last week. We are making a test which endures since a week, that could make a revolution in the revolution. It will go ahead for a month.
For now, just working.

May 5th

Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
I agree.
It’s Saturday, but today and tomorrow we will work 24 hours a day on the reactor we have made here in the USA: we have stabilized it at very high temperatures…and when I say very high I mean it. We understood the reason of the instability, so now the work is going on hard.

Of course we have no independent verification of what Rossi is saying here and so skeptics will continue to doubt. But for others this will be potentially heartening information, especially since Rossi says that they now understand the reason why instability was taking place. Greater knowledge of his reaction will mean greater control and eventually more sophisticated products. High temperatures to produce efficient electricity is of great importance if the E-Cat is going to be a truly revolutionary technology, and Rossi indicates that his goal now might now be a step closer to becoming a reality.

UPDATE: Rossi was asked on his blog whether this breakthrough would have any impact on the smaller domestic E-Cats he is planning on manufacturing. His reply was, “the domestic the safety issues are still prohibitive, but for the industrial applications we made a gigantic step forward.”

  • Pete

    He had to bring a new story to stop the interest in his imaginary story from declining… lol.

    I’d be very surprised if someone with his “serious” background will bring a working product to the market before the competition does.

    So yea I think lenr might be real (but very difficult to sustain)… I just don’t believe in “rossi says” anymore. Sounds like “simon says”. ;)

  • Roger Bird

    I am a LENR-On-Steroids believer.

    “Rossi Talks of Breakthrough: Stability at ‘Very High’ Temperatures” My response it: Give it a fracking rest, please. Rossi has said a lot of things, and as far as I am concerned, all that he has DEMONSTRATED is LENR-On-Steroids. Everything else has been boring hot air.

  • clovis

    Hi, this is more great news, and mr. Rossie will indeed redeem himself as one of the world most intelligent and strategical thinking men of this new age.

    • Roger Bird

      I hope so. It is pretty certain that someone will, but whether it is Rossi or Godes or the Defkalion team or someone else is yet to be determined.

      If the winner of this race does not get a Nobel Prize, it will be another nail in the coffin of the credibility of the Nobel Prize.

  • Pingback: E-Cat, Rossi annuncia miglioramenti per la generazione di elettricità - Energia - GreenStyle

  • georgehants

    From The Anomalist with thanks.
    Tesla — Connecting The Dots EDN Weekly
    Nikola Tesla was a man before his time. A visionary who laid the foundation for our modern world. From fluorescent lights, to radio, all the way down to alternating current which is indispensible in this connected day and age. Now some mavericks at MIT are mining Nikola’s theories, to wit wireless transmission of energy, for their current Witricity project. Once scoffed by colleagues and rivals, thought to violate physical and mathematical laws, future generations are beginning to appreciate what was lost, and what could have been. The results are shaping up to herald the dawn of a new age for mankind, Steve Taranovich connects the dots, wirelessly, giving credit where it has been long overdue.

    • georgehants
    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      So J P Morgan ‘only’ managed to delay the implementation of Tesla’s wireless power transmission by a century or so. Let’s hope that his descendents and current analogues are a lot less effective in the case of CF/LENR.

    • jacob

      hats off to Tesla,who said ,mankind may not be ready
      for this for perhaps a hundred years.
      Nikola’s accomplishments are higher than anyone
      I have heard of,he succeeded in wireless transmission of electricity a hundred years ago,but
      the plug was pulled when J.P. Morgan found out a meter could not be hooked up to it.
      and too bad we still have these …. meters a hundred years later.
      It would be nice to not have to pay for electricity ,after all we are citizens of planet earth,it would have been much better if governments would provide it for free ,our economy
      would be better off ,but all are just about broke,where did all the money go?

      • Roger Bird

        I am EXTREMELY skeptical of the efficient wireless transmission of energy (not signals). What happens to all that energy that goes in all of the 360 degrees squared minus where you want it to go directions. All that energy radiates out in all directions, most of it being wasted. How do you get around that problem. I doubt if J.P. Morgan invented that problem. Yes, it is possible to transmit energy wirelessly, but the lose of energy would be tremendous and therefore tremendously costly. Even if you used LENR as an energy source, it would still be ridiculously wasteful.

        And then there is the problem of heating things that may not want to be heated, like me and that cow over there and the tree above the cow and the building down the lane.

        And what I can’t understand is that this is such a simple and insurmountable problem why you Tesla fans can’t understand it.

  • georgehants

    Blue Valley senior is on the verge of a quantum leap for science.
    May 7
    JOE ROBERTSON
    The Kansas City Star
    Well another school child that science has failed to turn into a DOGMA worshiping Zombie.
    Still a little hope for mankind if the Rebels can resist being brainwashed by “expert” opinion and follow Evidence.
    -
    “It’s laden with secret ingredients — electronic circuitry and chemical processes — that the Blue Valley senior expects players in the oil industry will try to buy off him or steal so they can suppress them.
    It’s a heavy dish, developing hydrogen power from water to drive a car.”
    Read more here: http://joco913.com/news/blue-valley-senior-is-on-the-verge-of-a-quantum-leap-for-science/#storylink=cpy

    • Methusela

      George, thanks for posting that – very interesting.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      We seem to be entering ‘hundredth monkey’ territory across a broad front!

    • daniel maris

      An interesting story though many have tried to achieve this I believe.

      • georgehants

        Daniel, a thousand failures but you only need one success, it is the person who says it cannot be done that is so sad.

    • Roger Bird

      I guess it is normal for LENR to attract all of the physics retards and whack-jobs.

  • georgehants

    Blue Valley senior is on the verge of a quantum leap for science.
    May 7
    JOE ROBERTSON
    The Kansas City Star
    Well another school child that science has failed to turn into a DOGMA worshiping Zombie.
    Still a little hope for mankind if the Rebels can resist being brainwashed by “expert” opinion and follow Evidence.
    -
    “It’s laden with secret ingredients — electronic circuitry and chemical processes — that the Blue Valley senior expects players in the oil industry will try to buy off him or steal so they can suppress them.
    It’s a heavy dish, developing hydrogen power from water to drive a car.”
    Read more here: http://joco913.com/news/blue-valley-senior-is-on-the-verge-of-a-quantum-leap-for-science/#storylink=cpy

    Read more here: http://joco913.com/news/blue-valley-senior-is-on-the-verge-of-a-quantum-leap-for-science/#storylink=cpy

  • Zalomi

    Unfortunately we live in an Devil’s age (the last days) where every one hates the others, even the scientists do that.

    • Arnd

      Have you read Steven Pinker? For all objective criteria the world is getting better and better. We just have more news coverage, so a lot of people get the impression that things are getting worse.

      And there is no such thing as a “devil’s age”. That’s just a myth, so cool down.

      • Filip

        Thanks, it’s nice to have some common sence on this site from time to time.

      • Bigwilly

        Arnd,

        Excellent sentiments you wrote. I fully agree. By nearly any metric one chooses things are improving, (literacy, poverty, health, age, etc etc).

        It is kind of a buzzword to say things are bad, or “In these troubling times”. Almost everyone will numbly agree with you without actually thinking about it.

        BW

        • Roger Bird

          And music, is gangsta rap an improvement over Mozart? Is gangsta rap or whatever passes for music these days even an improvement over jazz or Big Band Benny Goodman music?

    • GreenWin

      Here is what the inventor of the X-PRIZE Peter Diamandis has to say about the current state of the world:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyXik42ASAg

      NOTE what he says about DIY INNOVATION and High School kids (e.g. Pirelli High School – Rome)

      • Sooner

        World today is full of evil and un-honesty, it is terrible of compared to the world in the 40′s ,50′s and 60′s.

        • GreenWin

          Sooner, what you mean to say is, “MY world is full of evil and un-honesty…” And so it will be.

  • AstralProjectee

    Sterling Alan from pes wiki must have taken most of his Andrea Rossi Ecat articles off of his website because if I do a Google search for “Andrea Rossi” site:www.peswiki.com I only get 11 pages and for “e-cat” site:www.peswiki.com there is about 140 that have little or nothing to do with the ecat. Then “ecat” site:www.peswiki.com gives only 5 articles. I know Sterling thought Andrea Rossi was lying and not being a team player when Andrea Rossi told the Florida Nuclear inspector that the ecat didn’t make any radiation. As that directly contradicted other statements by Rossi. Besides Rossi also didn’t pay Sterling for making a website that he originally approved of.

    Peace!

    • dragon

      Paying for the website? I don’t think this was ever the case.
      What I heard was that Andrea Rossi didn’t like how the website looked and did not endorse it to be the official face of the E-Cat on the Internet.

      Super ugly website anyway. Nobody will pay a cent if they see even only once.

  • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    “The domestic the safety issues are still prohibitive, but for the industrial applications we made a gigantic step forward.”

    This must be another error in translation. Rossi
    has been saying for weeks the certification process is going very well (with more than one certification company).

    It doesn’t take long to certify an appliance for the next model season or we would not see any electrical products.

    Other cold fusion is safe enough for Italian
    high school kids and MIT public demonstration.

    Although superheated steam turbines are more
    commonly used the BWR nuclear reactor only need the lower heat of boilng water (earlier acheived) to run the other type of turbine.

    At any rate the home unit was to operate at lower temperatures primarily to provide heat.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      It is possible that any ‘problems’ with home e-cats may have more to do with compromises that Rossi has deenmed it expedient to make, rather than anything technical.

    • timycelyn

      Allan, I’ve re-read the post in Rossi’s blog, and I think that comment was only in the context of his new high temperature work. In other words, at this time the high temperature option would have big certification issues in a domestic context.

      I take it to mean that the domestic version is still on track for certification – nothing has changed there.

      Cheers

      Tim

  • petrolero

    The fact that any device can produce excess energy in the form of heating water to 200 degrees celcius is amazing. If this technology is for real and only temperatures of 200 degrees celsius can be achieved, that in itself would provide a tremedous impact to the energy industry. Just imagine the amount of freed up coal, natural gas and heating oil (diesel) that will free up from heating homes around the world.

    No way will TPTB will permit this technology to go viral. The impact on coal, natural gas and nuclear energy would put many companies out of business within a few years. Natural gas in itself is putting pressure on coal selling at or less then $2 Mcf. Not to mention the negative effect on Wind and Solar energy which are just getting started due to high energy costs. Oil would probably be the least impacted by this technology but it would also feel the effects by lowering demand on heating oil. Natural gas might compete with oil by converting the excess gas to NLG. A great deal of Oil Companies are now drilling the shale oil plays in the US which require $60 dollar oil to be profitable and over $75 to invest in drilling for more. Oil producing countries with nationalized oil companies will also suffer because of this technology.

    Bottom line, even if this technology is for real expect great resistance from goverments. Developed like the US with strong energy companies (Exxon etc..) to undeveloped countries like Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuelas and others who rely on oil revenues to appease their population. Everyone will oppose this technology like it has the rabies.

    I hope I am completely wrong and start seeing some of these machines in operation within the next two years but I am not holding my breath.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      No, sadly you are absolutely right. The technology may be allowed to replace fossil fuels in large ships, and in power generation by multinational corporations, but I am pretty sure that that is about as far as it will be permitted to go.

      • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

        Yes but the first country to embrace the
        whole spectrum of application will win
        hands down trump the fossil economy countries.

      • timycelyn

        Peter, as ever, you really cheer me up! :-)

        Now, I do fear that you may be right in the context of the ‘developed’ world where the power of these vested interests is incredible.

        If I pursue the line of logic I have put forward in the past – that the developing world, India and (maybe, they are very hard to predict) China – will not play by these rules, what will happen?

        Well, initially our lords and masters will make shedloads of money off the new technology, at the expense of us poor peasants. The fact that India, China and maybe S America – the BRIC countries, really – don’t play ball won’t really matter very much. Slap import bans on anything containing this technology – (SAFETY FIRST!! [boll*cks])and everything will be nice.

        Well it will for a while. But of course, having access to much cheaper energy at the user level in those countries is going to push them onto a much steeper growth trajectory than they are even now on.

        Those of us in the fossil countries will be basically annihilated commercially, we would be trying to compete with both hands tied behind our backs.

        So, the question would be, is this fate inescapable? Even if the greedy persuasion – for whatever reason, either their own self interest or our governments finally ‘growing a pair’ in this context)- back off and allow access to LENR technology as in the BRICs, would it be too late to undo the damage? Would we be reduced to a modern day equivalent of a peasant culture in the West, because once the commercial/economical/manufacturing power has shifted, how can we ever hope to get it back??

        Now I’ve really cheered myself up……

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Hi Timycelyn. Just call me ‘paranoid pete’!

          I was really just considering the very short term future (say, 5 years or so). Beyond that, as you say, there are all sorts of potential complexities, depending on how far the writ of TPTB really extends.

          In the end though, decisions concerning the future of CF will be made by those who stand to lose or gain by it, so what we are ‘allowed’ to have will depend entirely on their calculations.

          Inevitably though there has to come a point where the elite is forced to recognise that their own wealth is generated from below. If the ‘below’ collapses, there will be nothing for them to feed off, so like any good parasite they must avoid killing the host that supports them.

          In practical terms this must mean that if what it takes to maintain their power and privilege is to ‘permit’ wholesale development of CF, and to allow the nuclear and oil industries to sink, the elite will withdraw financially from such areas, then step out of the way.

          • timycelyn

            Peter, I agree with your description of the way TPTB will likely respond if the host starts to show very obvious signs of dying.

            However, I worry that by the time they calculate that it is in their own best monetary interest to let us get closer to LENR devices, so much additional damage will have been done to our competitiveness that the host will be so seriously weakened that it may not die, but will be very weak and emaciated – possibly for many decades.

            This paranoia is definitely catching…. :-(

          • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

            Judging by what is going on now, which seems to be a general engineered financial collapse – the banks (who in the end own all the corporate structures under threat) seem to think that uncertainty, fear and declining living standards (plus rapidly increasing fascism in the US) are helpful in furthering their interests. Withholding cheap universal power would unfortunately be consistent with this agenda.

            On the other hand of course, ‘they’ may be less clever and less powerful than they think, and may in the end just get steamrollered over. After all, politicians need to stay in, or gain power in order to reap the personal rewards on offer for toeing the line, and some semblance of democracy is still in effect in many countries. We can but hope!

    • Robert Mockan

      More publicity will continue to increase the calculated marginal rate of return for LENR products. Presently marginal analysis indicates selling catalyst for LENR reactors will be viable within 12 months. An E-book documenting DIY catalyst synthesis experiments will be viable within 4 months. Government response is irrelevant.
      TPTB deserve what ever punishment comes their way for delaying this technology two decades. Lack of energy progress has resulted in the death of many people the last 20 years. Government and TPTB are welcome to take whatever credit for the delay they want because they are going to receive it anyway when LENR DOES go viral, and people become more knowledgeable about LENR history and delays.
      Interesting times are approaching quickly.

      • Robert Mockan

        Any good text on business accounting principles will cover calculating marginal rate of return, opportunity cost, marginal analysis, product development costs, marketing analysis, etc., based on empirical data. I am not quoting. Those month numbers are my conclusions based on the data I have.

    • PersonFromPorlock

      This belief that “TPTB” will prevent CF from prospering may be fashionable, but it’s crap. Ma Bell couldn’t prevent alternative telephone systems (and ultimately cell phones) from becoming the new norm, IBM couldn’t hold onto the computer market, Microsoft is giving way to Linux….

      Give up on the college-boy cynicism: the only thing holding CF back is that there’s damn all to show it works.

      • timycelyn

        Mmmm…. actually I’d say the bulk of the college-boy cynicism relating to these matters is on display from those of a pathoskeptic persuasion.

        Anyway, aside from that personal opinion, I do have to correct you on a matter of fact in the example that you quoted. It may have been so your side of the pond, but in the UK what we worry about now is EXACTLY what happened to the telephone system for the first 100 years or so of its life.

        TPTB declared is should be run and operated by a government monopoly – the Post Office, the good ol’ GPO. Not only the lines and exchanges, but even the equipment in your house. Until about 30 years ago you were forbidden from connecting anything to the network. Only a proper ‘man’ from the GPO could come and – at vast expense – install you an extension line and phone (after you had been on a waiting list for 3 months or so).

        When the monolith finally collapsed, it was through a series of very grudging stages as modern forces – including the power of competition law – tore some aspects of the monopoly apart.

        If they’d had a safety argument to hide behind, I bet it would still be like that today.

        I’m afraid the vision of others – like self named ‘Paranoid Pete’ :-) is all too believable in a UK context, and I’m afraid to say I admire your optimism in the US.

        True, you have the trappings of great market freedom and the power of competition, freedom, and the market – yada yada yada.

        In fact, you have some of the biggest money based regulatory supported stitch ups going – the catastrophic state of the US health system being a wonderful example. As a professional in supplying that business, I can state with complete confidence that it is over regulated and controlled, causing gross price inflation at no perceptible benefit to the patient.

        If you are an asthma sufferer, for example, your puffer costs you at least 30$. Same puffer, 4$ in the UK.

        Cheers

        Tim

    • GreenWin

      When Henry Ford introduced the Model A in 1903 – the world’s businessmen knew that the end of “horsepower” was near. Thousands of smithies, foundries, carriage makers, stables, horse farms, breeders, harness makers, wheel-makers, buggy whip factories, slaughter houses, glue factories, etc. etc. etc… went out of business.

      Balance of economies however CREATED thousands of new factory jobs, making cars, tires, headlights, batteries (hand cranks,) oil & gas exploration, drilling, refining, shipping, fuel pumps, gas stations, accessories, parts, advertising, marketing, road construction, road repair, licensing, tax revenues, etc etc. etc.

      You get what you believe gentlemen. Fossil & fission fuels costs taxpayers BILLIONS in military protectionism, health hazards, environmental damage (e.g. Fukushima $$250B- 20 years, Hanford WA- 80 years, $$200B) “climate,” $$450B annual payment(USA) for foreign oil etc.

      The first LENR water heater will force GE, Toshiba, Honda, Siemens, LG, oilcos, utilities to consider how much $$ they could make selling a universally desirable LENR appliance.

      Interestingly, following the money leads to… LENR.

      • edog

        agree

      • petrolero

        Don’t get me wrong, I believe in LENR and wish that it could come out soon and prove to the world once and for all that it is real. My argument is based on that this technology will compete with the World’s biggest industry. The Energy industry!, not just the fossil fuel industry! Why do you think the hot fusion scientist still call it “Psuedo Science”. That is the resistance it will face.

        Taking your example of the Model A technology. Sure all these older technologies vanished or adapted to the new advances in science, however, the only industry at the time that could have delayed the automobile was the Railroad industry and they hardly though of a horseless carraige as competition. All those industries that lost to this technology in the late 19th and early 20th century did not have the economic and political clout equivalent that the energy industry has worldwide today! Besides the automobile industry back then was porbably supported by the Rockafellers (Energy Industry) because it was a great way to sell a commonly produced by product of kerosene that was thrown away or burnt called gasoline.

        I believe that this technology will face a tremendously uphill battle. First to acquire legitimacy and then to replace established forms of energy sources. Sorry no College cynicism just a hard dose of reality.

        • GreenWin

          petro – point is those with vision in the “Energy Industry” see an opportunity to create new revenue from a cheap, clean, green source of power. BTW, the Chief Scientist at NASA Langley RC and two additional NASA divisions have already made LENR “legitimate.”

          Trying to “ban” LENR water heaters would be like trying to ban microwave ovens. An end without means.

      • wes

        Back to the kitchen for you, Mary!

    • Arnd

      Stop this old conspiracy talk. Rossi himself said that there is no conspiracy against him, just a few detractors (“snakes”). “Big oil” is no single entity. The first one of them who will believe Rossi will just get on board and make billions while killing the others.

    • Bruno

      If it’s for real, the Chinese will implement it on a massive scale. The Chinese government HATES the idea that they need to import oil. Their oil and coal industries have nowhere near the clout in China that their Western counterparts have in the US and Europe. They have TERRIBLE pollution, much of it driven by coal fired power plants. Several thousand Chinese coal miners die each year.

      Bottom line: If this is for real, the Chinese will jump on it and there will be no way for the US or European governments can to it. It will be impossible to tell mainstream America that the technology is fraudulent or dangerous when they see it being safely deployed in China.

      It remains a BIF IF, because Rossi hasn’t proven anything and has a tendency to announce “breakthroughs” every so often when things get quiet or when the skeptics seem to be winning converts. Right now I remain very skeptical.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Finally some great stuff happening on the ecat front.

    - Andrea Rossi never claimed his product was not stable for the first year or so, and this instability stopped him demonstrating longer than 18 hours publicly. It just seemed known to us.

    It would be nice if this new control inspired him to go public again. It really would demonstrate legally that he is at or near the front of this.

    So M.I.T. is giving public cold fusion demonstrations. Brillouin corporation seems like they are getting positive feedback.

    Now we are getting information that powerful steam generation can occur. Even if this were not true simply heating water from cold to hot can be used to provide much cheaper electricity.

    As we know all technologies in their infancy grow and grow. I am surprised that Andrea Rossi is the one to advance the technology to this level, but would be happy if he did get the credit for all of this as it was his demonstrations that brought my keen interest over a year ago.

    Good-Luck Andrea Rossi

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

      He no needs for instant complementary crédit, neither
      any approbations of other official-or-non parties to advance
      except the verdict of World Market.

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

    The term “High Température” (HT) is more
    appropriate, since Very HT (VHT) begins only
    around 800-900 oC and beyond.

  • Pingback: Rossi Talks of Breakthrough: Stability at ‘Very High’ Temperatures | ColdFusion Blog

  • sven

    Well, either Rossi if feeling threatened by the attention that the Brillouin group is getting or we are seeing the two parties getting into a close competition on the power-plant market. Rossi is either making a good science-fiction at his kitchen table, adjusting it with the latest news from the other parties or we can start to celebrate the new energy age. So keep your hopes up, but keep in mind that these are just unproven claims.

  • LENR4you

    Andrea Rossi wrote in his blog:
    “Andrea Rossi
    May 5th, 2012 at 5:46 PM
    Dear Francesco:
    Yes. Sterling Engine.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    I think AR builds a NiH Stirling Engine to produce electricity.
    When T>500°C very interesting point of view.
    The question is:
    Where is the Rossi-Reactor? Is it inside or outside of the Stirling Engine (closed-loop cycle using hydrogen as the working fluid inside)?

    I wish Mr. Rossi and his team all the best.

    LENR4you

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth Sophareth Camsonne

      It would be safer with Helium, an inert gas.

      • LENR4you

        You’re right, if the eCat works outside the closed loop cycle He or C02 will be better.
        But the ecat is working with H2 or D2 not with He!
        So when the eCat is insight there is only H2 or D2 possible.

        LENR4you

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          Only if the compression cycle is used to feed the CF reaction is some way. Its just as likely that a tubular heat exchanger in the ‘hot end’ would be used, in which case the working fluid can be anything, including air.

  • georgehants

    Taking things at face value it would seem inconceivable that the “military customer” is not in touch with the white house or whoever is appropriate.
    Therefore full knowledge of the technology must be in the hands of the powers that be and yet no announcement that Cold Fusion has arrived.
    There are several possible answers to why this is so, none of them very good.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      George, I’ve posted a few times my belief that Rossi and Defkalion probably have real technology that is being developed more or less as claimed, BUT that the technology is now under the control of government or the military. My suspicion is that this is the ‘price’ being paid for freedom to continue development – that home/portable devices will NOT be offered, and that the sole aim of development becomes replacement of the boilers used in fossil-burning plant.

      Assuming the technology is protected in some way that keeps it in the hands of the military and large corporate entities (‘nuclear’ licensing), this this may be the ‘permissible’ way forward.

      Full control will ensure that Western states become less dependent on importing fuel for powergen, the corporates make massive savings and hence greater profits as they replace combustion boilers, and the oiks continue to pay through the nose for fuel for their cars, until such time as everyone is forced to go electric (grid charging of course).

      This way everyone will gain, and no-one will lose – unless you count the peasants of course (but who does?).

      • georgehants

        Peter, plenty of battles to come maybe but for now do Rossi or/and Defkalion have the goods.
        I haven’t changed from the beginning, I believe they do have something. (opinion only).
        We wait for conformation and then see what is happening and use the Internet as now.
        It seems that Cold Fusion is now securely proven and yet it’s advance is still being obstructed in most areas.
        Tell me, do any of the experiments, MIT for example confirm transmutation in any way do you know.

        • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

          The evidence for CF is now overwhelming. Only a complete (paid) idiot like Dr Hody would continue to claim otherwise.

          I think it is only Nanospire who are claiming massive transmutation at the moment, but there seems to be quite a bit of tangential evidence that transmutation may be a consequence of CF. I don’t think I’ve seen any detailed info from the MIT team regarding this. Brillouin are pretty adamant that it is not.

          There may be several pathways, some involving transmutations, some not. Fun, isn’t it!

          • georgehants

            Peter, thanks, transmutation seems to be a little forgotten in the story at the moment, but if true will of course be very important.
            I am waiting for the Alchemists to be vindicated from arrogant science that puts down everybody and everything not agreeing with their crazy “excepted” view of the World.

  • GreenWin

    Andrea Rossi: You say that you now understand the reason for the high temperature instability. This is wonderful news! And a reactor/amplifier may now be able to achieve quite high temperatures!

    The little cat might become a Lion. Good news indeed. pg

    Andrea Rossi
    May 5th, 2012 at 5:30 PM

    “Dear P.G. Sharrow:
    I must thank our military Customer, we are working with them and learning.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.”

    Sounds like the NAVY is helping develop the 1MW unit to run at full capacity. There are probably two dozen LENR scientists under the Navy umbrella. One is on Rossi’s Board of Advisers.

    • jacob

      The reason the military customer,or navy may well be interested in this technology ,is unlimited range
      on their submarines ,some using sterling engines already ,for easy conversion ,as well for safety
      to maybe replace their nuclear reactors with LENR

      It appears that Ecat is not going to make it in to the homes of America anytime soon , and utilities
      and electricity providers want to cash in on it first,and we will remain consumers after all

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        I’m betting that domestic e-Cat water-heaters will appear soon, but with e-Cat gen-sets only available to industrial users. Domestic LENR gen-sets will appear in a decade or so, possibly in kit form.

      • GreenWin

        Good thought jacob. However, Navy’s submarine people want quiet propulsion. LENR, like fission is a quiet heat source. Conversion to mech energy to turn a prop is accomplished better by steam turbine at higher efficiencies.

        As for the home units – Pirelli High School has released the specs for building a 4X overunity electrochem/plasma cell. With improvements these can be packaged in DIY kit form for home brewers. IOW, these things are SIMPLE to build. No way will a government prevent home owners from SAVING MONEY on heat and electric – without risking their power base. The politician who introduces the first LENR home water heater manufactured in their home country – will be lauded as the people’s hero.

        How many votes can a savvy politico garner with a slogan like “I’ll lower your electric bill 80%. LENR in every basement.”

        The cat (e-or Hyperion) IS out of the bag.

        • jacob

          yes Greenwin, you are right the
          homemade LENR, just can’t see how
          anybody can stop it.

    • Frank

      I must thank our military Customer, we are working with them and learning.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.”

      Of course – the military is well known to share know how and confidential developments with private companies.
      They are very happy and grateful that the Italian Rossi allows them to teach him about what’s going on inside the e-cat, so that Rossi can learn from them the secrets of LENR-science.

      That story is as convincing as the story that a mystery “military customer” bought that revolutionary 1MW-container, but then leaves it for months unguarded in Rossis garage in Bologna!

  • LENR4you
  • http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com Peter Gluck

    Please do a web-search for “Defkalion 650 C”

    LENR+ is a problem of engineering and DGT advances
    much faster than Rossi.

    Peter

  • the snake

    Does that mean that Rossi now builds two more secret factories and solicits yet another certification for a secret product?

  • Pingback: Rossi Talks of Breakthrough: Stability at ‘Very High’ Temperatures | E-Cat News Live Feed

  • Zalomi

    I wonder why Rossi goes to America to produce E-Cat commercially ?
    America is no longer the best place for that – I think the Europeans can replcae America for commercial production- even he can use China and Korea where cheap clever workers are there.

    • Andrew Macleod

      Sigh….

    • Pipmon

      Piantelli seems to have priority (with patents) in the European arena. The U.S. conveniently has issued no patents. Ergo Mr. Rossi knows that there is where he will not be forced to battle Piantelli (and whoever else!) when everyone has their reactors going. A smart move from a wily man.

      • Dr. Mike

        There actually is a US patent on cold fusion. Check out US Patent # 6,248,221 on Goggle. Does Andrea Rossi know about this patent? It certainly seens probable that there are some of the claims in this patent that might be infringed upon by Rossi’s devices. After following Rossi’s progress for more than a year, I was certainly surprised to find this Rossi-like device already patented. I haven’t seen this patent mentioned in any of the E-cat World articles- any reason for this?

        • GreenWin

          Dr. Mike – interesting citation. There are at least a dozen patents bordering on the Rossi process. Jim Patterson’s cell seems closest using metal nano-particles he made himself. The Patterson Cell was introduced on ABC Television News & Good Morning America –

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jze7KtdHfh8

          Patterson used Ni and Pd nanocrystals in the fabrication of his micron-sized “beads.”

          The Swiss patent you refer to looks to be for a colloidal of carbon nano-crystals – very different from the metal lattice particles used in Rossi-type Ni+H2 systems.

          However, since LENR represents a total energy market of trillions of $$$ – we can expect many patent fights going forward. Such fights will not impede commercialization due to the huge market payoff.

    • jacob

      maybe AR has a secret deal with Defkalion, Defkalion has said it will not sell or manufacture
      in the US ,and that seems to be AR’s turf now ,working with the military of the most powerful
      country of the world ,so did AR set up a competition
      ( Dekalion) on purpose , so that LENR could thrive
      and survive the initial ignorance of the world who
      turned their backs on a potential energy revolution

      if so ,that clever plan worked

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        That scenario has crossed my mind.

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      OK, I’m convinced.

  • http://don'tknow tony

    What is it that every person reading about LENR are involving themselves in?I think the answere is entropy.I do hope it is the scientific kind of entropy and not the metaphorical literary version.Even if we are chasing a red herring,I would still like to thank Mr.Rossi for opening our minds to such alcamy,and beleive if LENR has not come to pass,then it won’t be long before it does,.it’s probably our destiny.

  • Richard Kalin

    Let’s hope that by “very high temperatures” Rossi means temperatures higher than the critical point for steam (374.15-C), the minimum temperature for making the dry steam needed for efficient mechanical and electric power generation. Better yet would be achieving 540-C – the steam temperature used by many coal fired commercial power stations. That would open up a huge retrofit market.

    • Robert Mockan

      Still under development the supercritical CO2 Brayton cycle can operate well at 300 C (50% Carnot) and is much smaller mass and footprint than a steam Rankine. If energy conversion remains thermal to electrical for the foreseeable future we could see conventional steam power plants allowed to reach their end of life operation using their present fuel intake boilers, but new plants would be supercritical CO2 designs using LENR heat at 300 C.
      Supercritical CO2 enables engines sized more like hydraulic motors, and should also be suitable for vehicle power.

  • http://don'tknow tony

    What is it that every person reading about LENR are involving themselves in?I think the answere is entropy.I do hope it is the scientific kind of entropy and not the metaphorical literary version.Even if we are chasing a red herring,I would still like to thank Mr.Rossi for opening our minds to such alcamy,and beleive if LENR has not come to pass,then it won’t be long before it does,.it’s probably our destiny

  • Jerry

    Please Explain – What will this mean ? Rossi reached 300 celsius degrees (=572°F) in a stable way.

    • Francesco CH

      It means that a wider range of practical applications can now be achieved.

      One of these is electricity generation.

    • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

      It means that one can have a standalone device producing heat (and possible some electric power too) without any external input. Even though the internal COP is only 6, the “external” COP is infinite because the device makes the electricity it needs to maintain the operation itself.

      (Disclaimer: this is what it means if the claim is true and no further technical obstacles occur.)

      • Francesco CH

        Very intellingent observation.

  • Brad Arnold

    This is the Holy Grail of LENR: replacement of existing boilers that power existing steam turbines with LENR. We all wish Rossi the best of luck!

  • AstralProjectee

    What would happen if Iran or some terrorist organization makes a nuclear weapon with this new found technology and it’s ramifications.

    Peace!

    • Robert Mockan

      Commercialization of LENR technology would probably be halted. Laws would be passed prohibiting the sale of materials that might be used to make LENR devices, and surveillance would be increased to prevent any device from being built. Information about LENR would be purged from libraries and discussion about it not allowed in schools. The military would be the only organization allowed to study and use the technology. In my humble opinion.

      • Francesco CH

        Hope not!!!

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        Now that is has become very difficult to deny the reality of LENR and to ridicule the developer’s claims, I think we may be seeing many more suggestions of this kind being made about the safety of the technology. It can’t now be stopped, so state control on the pretext of safety is the logical next step for those who wish to preserve the status quo.

        • Robert Mockan

          I am inclined to agree. Like the “war on drugs”, LENR technology may become another object declared by government to perpetrate many more unrelated fallacies.

    • Francesco CH

      Iran is a peaceful country, I would be pleased if they can obtain every energy source they need.

      • daniel maris

        Ha-ha – good joke!!!

        • Francesco CH

          Every nation in the world has the right to build their own energy plants without external interferences.

          For me it is not a joke. I would be pleased if Iran and the Iranian people can obtain every energy source they need.

        • Pipmon

          Before condemning (blindly) it might behoove you to read a little bit about the relatively recent history of Iran (and all of the middle east while you’re at it). The actions of BP and other international oil cartels post WWII and the intrusion of Western powers in the internal affairs of Iran (especially the overthrow of Mossadeq) do not allow us from the west to take any “holier than thou” attitude about our relative motives and morals, then or now. It is ironic and fitting perhaps that this all came about exactly because of the greedy tentacles of the oil barons of then, and that these same tangled tentacles may now have a large role to play in the LENR story!

      • jacob

        If AR went to work in Iran ,to provide for them LENR ,or unlimited fusion energy to cover their energy needs tenfold ,my question
        is ,would they give up their nuclear program

        Iran is seen as a tread ,to start a nuclear war ,which could wipe out over 90% of the
        world population.

        War must be outlawed ,in order for all
        of earth’s citizens to prosper.

        • Robert Mockan

          War by any country is illegal by international law, except under very specific circumstances, and is always illegal if fought by the US military unless the US Congress declares it. It is a treasonable offense punishable by death with no statute of limitations for any US president to go to war without a declaration by Congress. It sounds nice to say “outlaw” war, but for that to work there must a legitimate government that will recognize and enforce the rule of law. The world is sorely lacking in that respect.

        • Robert Mockan

          You ask would Iran give up their nuclear program? It would be foolish for them to do so.
          Unfortunately we live in a world where defense against countries that already posses nuclear weapons requires having them, especially when a rouge nation engaged in Empire building ignores the rule of law, both domestically and internationally, with a government that does not represent citizens, either internally or globally, but rather seeks to perpetuate fascism.

          • Robert Mockan

            Correction: rouge s/b rogue

          • jacob

            Robert , what is Iran really gaining by having a nuclear program ,they have enough energy in terms of oil ,its of no use for them to have nuclear weapons anyway , with the defense systems the US has in place , they wouldn’t
            get one in the air anyways,just to bad they(Iran )
            don’t know that,and they are just wasting their money for nothing to gain

          • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

            in geostrategy every body know that nuclear weapon is a defensive deterrent weapon.

            US/israel is not afraid of being aggressed, but of not being abble to aggress freely.
            Iran is a complex country, with a conservative elite that lock the power, bu strong education, especially girls, high culture, a strange openmindness miwed with visible conservatism (Siha religion is hard to understand, especially with cliché told on TV)…

            My wife who was women activist in a moderate multi-religious muslim countries, explain me the complex situation there, the comparative good status of woman and educatio, compared to Suni dominant countries…

            note also that the real enemy of iran is not US or israel (they are scapegoat and complice of the real enemy), but Saudi Arabia and around… taliban are agent of saudi, and they slaughtered the Iranian in Afganistan like sheep for aid el kebir.

            anyway LENr will give breathing to iran by removing geostrategic interest in it’s oil, and removing cash and cash expectation from saudi.

          • Robert Mockan

            > jacob

            Oil is a finite fuel, and more valuable as feedstock for the chemical industry. Burning it for energy when there are alternatives is… stupid. Nuclear power is a proven technology, for energy and weapons. Having a nuclear program is a good defensive strategy when all potential enemies have nuclear weapons. Not passing judgement, just stating the obvious.

    • AstralProjectee

      I would move to a more remote small city if I could.

      Peace!

    • AstralProjectee

      To prevent Iran or some terrorist organization from making a nuclear weapon I would make good schools in terrorist areas. Do humanitarian things. Giving to them and helping them. I would inform them that things will change for the good for the whole world because of this new technology.

      Peace!

    • atanguy

      As far that I know there is no ‘nuclear weapon’ similar to an atomic bomb possible with this technology. Additionally, LENR will replace the fossil energy, so no incentive to control or invade countries producing oil – like Iran – would be necessary anymore… LENR=Peace between nations (I hope!)

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      LOL George – that’s actually rather amusing.

  • Francesco CH

    E-CAT: FRESH NEWS!!!

    Rossi reached 300 celsius degrees (=572°F) in a stable way.

    • Francesco CH

      Tell me if, in Frank’s blog post above, there is the information about the specific level of reached temperature that I have written.

  • Robert Mockan

    Stabilizing at “very” high temperature means they are preventing the catalyst structure from changing. So some kind of reinforcement? Carbon nanotubes come to mind with nickel catalyst particles inside. Maybe an alloy composition with higher temperature stability than pure nickel? All kinds of possibilities. The work is being done in laboratory somewhere. Without knowing the kind of equipment they are using no way to even speculate what Rossi is doing. All I have to say is…
    good luck Rossi! Hope you can pull off the marketing plan and higher temperature is great news!

  • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

    “Of course we have no independent verification of what Rossi is saying here and so skeptics will continue to doubt.”
    Skeptics will continue to doubt until shortly after their neighbor is heating their home for free. That said, what difference do skeptics make? As long as those skeptics cannot slow Ing. Rossi down, their skepticism is fully beside the point.

    • http://don'tknow tony

      where’s my comment?

    • http://don'tknow tony

      If you publish “where’s my comment”,.but not post my comment:only my retort!Then WordPress are you denying myself coverage,are you judging me or merely plaguerising what I’ve written?

      • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

        Tony,
        Knowing wordpress, your comment probably got flagged as spam. It is really hard for web admins to apply human filtering to the spam process because they get gazillions of the things (well, 50 to 100 a day).

        Most likely cause of going to spam — links. More than one or two and you’re toast. The other best cause is “sweet words” like, “I love your website”. This, because the robots make such comments to get other webs to link to theirs.

        Spam majorly sucks. Produce a better solution than auto spam detection, and you’re rich!

    • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

      Hello George.