Whispers from Italy

As a cloak of silence has fallen over the activities of Andrea Rossi and Defkalion Green Technologies it is very difficult to get a picture of the state of progress from either camp. People who know what is happening are keeping very quiet. However, an interesting comment came yesterday from Daniele Passerini, the Italian author and blogger who is close to a number of people at the University of Bologna, and was in attendance at the Italian E-Cat demonstrations last October.

On his 22 Steps blog he stated, “”…… If you knew how many movements are going on behind the scenes (corporations, universities, political parties …) you would smile with me!”. Later he says, “”I’m sorry, I can not say anything … and I assure you that it is very frustrating. I go sit by the river and wait, wait, wait … ”

We can’t learn much from such a comment, but there is a hint here that there is some activity going on at the University of Bologna, since Passerini has contacts there. As far as corporations or political parties, that is anyone’s guess. Maybe we all just need to sit by a river for a while.

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  • GreenWin

    There is a lot more developing in the general area of “zero point energy.” See the current discussion at ecatnews.com underway re: TerraWatt Research in CAli. They have a magnetic motor-type energy device and it is a company staffed with extremely weighty advisers including William H. Webster former Director FBI and CIA.

    Here’s TerraWatt link: http://www.terawatt.com/ecm1/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=196

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      When ever I hear the term “magnetic motor” connected to “free energy” or to zero point energy and such I have to laugh. I understand that magnets seem almost magical but really there are conventional explanations and they are laid out by Maxwell’s Laws and explain such seemingly “magical” behavior.

  • AB

    There is some more semi-reliable information on the testing in Bologna I found on an Italian skeptics blog:

    After the first contract was terminated in January, the university of Bologna and Rossi came to an agreement to perform black box testing of the e-cat between February and end of May. The university will not be paid for this and will be able to publish their results in any way they want.

    [If you remember the official announcement from Unibo at the time, it said that they were open to future collaboration at the condition that they could freely publish the results].

    It appears that this second contract has been signed and become active, unless UniBo is so foolish as to start calibrating their testing devices on a mere promise.

    The measurements will be taken in Rossi’s workshop with the university’s equipment.

    The group performing the measurements is the same as for the first contract. [this includes Prof. Levi].

    The post expresses some doubts about the competency of the team and the possibility of actually obtaining a meaningful result.

    This is taken from the post made here http://fusionefredda.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/srivastav/
    by Gherardo Gentzen on March 30, 2012 at 11:53 am

    • Lu

      Thanks for this. It’s boring sitting here by the river….

  • londo

    Isn’t this post the epitome of this site. We’ve been fed rumors and meta information about the e-cat and the possibility of cold fusion.

    Now, we are left with whispers.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      If I were you I would simply remove this site from your “favorites” list, and go to the Krivit site and commiserate with him.

      • londo

        Yes, you’re probably right. Thank’s for the tip.

  • Ramo

    Did anyone notice that there is less and less water in the river? We can die of dehydration sitting at its banks.

  • sapain

    i was watching the 25 part green tech today program.

    an interesting show about desalination of h2o.
    a group called Oasys, is applying a high salt that salt water to extract water. the higher salt when heated turns into a gas. the gas is driven out of solution with low heat, this method is a low in energy us.
    smart guy who thought it up, i take my hat off to him.

    • Ramo

      “applying a high salt that salt water to extract water”.
      Yes, all is clear. Kidney failure is imminent.

      • sapain

        sorry, they use a salt that turns into a gas unpon the application of heat, this gas salt has a higher afinity for water than sea water does and by osmosis, the water travels from sea water to the gas salt solution raising the h2o concentration. the gas salt solution is heated, salts turn into gas and is driven out of solution with low heat, leaving behind h2o. process can be used to extract water from industrial, commercial and domestic waste as well.
        method will replace pressure osmosis and vapour distalation of h20 and save lots of energy.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

          Can you provide a link?

  • http://www.grupoice.com Jorge Jimenez

    I think we will soon have direct evidence to see with own eyes one of those inventions doing their thing and silence a few positions that have adopted a radical ecepticismo unfounded.

    Those who have closely followed every link and every opinion of many experts, we can be sure that “when the river is hoarse because it brings stones.” I prefer not expect the need to stop dreaming and believing that soon the world will be blessed by a shower of energy from the sky.

    • Rogerborg

      You know, if I were a puppet-snake trying to discredit Rossi and LENR, this is precisely the sort of deranged “hug a rainbow” style post that I’d probably make.

  • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

    Perhaps it is time for another “We the People” petition to the White House to ask for an investigation into LENR. Maybe this time it will garner more that the less than 600 votes the last one received.

    • Ramo

      Why would I sign petitions? I’ll just wait until Rossi delivers the ecat and the world turns for the better. I’ll get the 1MW plant cause I like to spend money so that Rossi can help sick children. And I don’t like robots, they spook me.

    • Bernie Koppenhofer

      I am convinced they already know all there is to know about LENR, they are busy trying to control it.

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

        Believe me, those at the top are the last to know of any new development unless it comes about by some round about method.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      I would propose an investigation and summary to be conducted by Dr. Robert Duncan of Missouri University. He is still in good standing with the American Physical Society and they will have to chose one way or the other: to admit that there is something very substantial to the phenomena or else to avert their eyes in such an obviously and biased manner as to show their hand.

  • Sojourner Soo

    The quiet before the storm. A pregnant expectancy filling the still air. I’m sitting by the river quite happily and still smiling. The revolution is coming folks. :)

    • Ramo

      Keep smiling

  • TUB

    For your interest and consideration.

    I recently came across this e-petition

    e-petition
    Test and Report on Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat
    Responsible department: Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

    Andrea Rossi claims to have invented a revolutionary source of energy. He has demonstrated his invention numerous times to different (invited) audiences. During each of these demonstrations, excess energy production has been observed. To date, however, no definitive test has been carried out. I ask, therefore, that a device be purchased and properly tested (run for 72 hours continuous at least) to either confirm or refute the validity of this invention: while the downside risk is small (purchase + test costs), the upside risks are huge (so huge, in fact, that it is impossible to give a figure to them – they include: rapid and massive carbon footprint reduction, reduction in energy costs, elimination of energy security risks, preservation of oil for medicines, fertilizers, plastics, hi-tech materials to name but a few).

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/21590

    • jabba

      Sounds pointless, since Rossi promised to have a publicly accessible 1MW box soon. LOL. I bet the original blue container is still in his workshop in Italy.

    • MK

      Why didnt you sign?
      I did.

  • Sanjeev

    Lattice Energy LLC-New Russian Data Supports WLT Neutron Production in Lightning-April 4 2012

    http://www.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llcnew-russian-data-supports-wlt-neutron-production-in-lightningapril-4-2012

  • Sanjeev

    “Perhaps it is better in this present world of ours that a revolutionary idea or invention instead of being helped and patted, be hampered and ill-treated in its adolescence — by want of means, by selfish interest, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance; that it be attacked and stifled; that it pass through bitter trials and tribulations, through the strife of commercial existence. So do we get our light. So all that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combatted, suppressed — only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle.”

    –Nikola Tesla

    Taken from http://hydrofusion.com , Ecat dealers for Europe.

  • georgehants
  • georgehants

    U.S. Students Need New Way of Learning Science
    ScienceDaily (Apr. 5, 2012) — American students need a dramatically new approach to improve how they learn science, says a noted group of scientists and educators led by Michigan State University professor William Schmidt.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120405131435.htm

    • sapain

      actually there is, utube. visual medium. lots of education topics in specified areas being expanded by the month. black board attention span is short-boring with no visuals, utube film, doc-100% attention span. utube easy replay and refresher. cuts cost of knowledge aquirement.

    • Robert Mockan

      How about reading, doing experiments, learning how to do math, and developing critical thinking skills? Getting politics and social engineering out of schools would help. Maybe going to class and doing homework?

      Just crazy ideas. Move along, nothing to read here.

    • Robert Mockan

      Here is another thought. How about throwing the idiot box out? You know, the TV used for effective mind control to turn creative children into couch potatoes who aspire to nothing greater to being good consumers and buying junk for the rest of their lives, and never questioning authority. Who needs science education when the peons watch over 350,000 commercials before they are 18? And see thousands of murders before they are teens? And all of it wrapped in sex in some way, because as the mind controllers know, sex sells. A “new” way to teach science? What alternate reality are those jokers living in? The purpose of school has never been to enlighten, but to socialize.

      • GreenWin

        Robert, excellent points. Most important is “never questioning authority.”

        We are in a retarded state of technological development (re energy) precisely BECAUSE the “peons” have never learned to question what “experts” and “authorities” teach them. Breakthroughs, innovations, inventions, original thinking – all comes from those who dismiss “authority.”

        The old school Orthodoxy hears the knocking on their cathedral door. It is the ghost of Martin Luther, the New Reformation is underway.

      • spacegoat

        Great comments Robert Mockan, and so true. No reply from Georgehants though, he will go on vilyfying science.

  • georgehants

    Physicists control quantum tunneling with light for the first time
    April 5, 2012
    Scientists at the Cavendish Laboratory in Cambridge have used light to help push electrons through a classically impenetrable barrier. While quantum tunnelling is at the heart of the peculiar wave nature of particles, this is the first time that it has been controlled by light. Their research is published today, 05 April, in the journal Science.
    http://www.phys.org/news/2012-04-physicists-quantum-tunneling.html

    • alex

      Yes, this is great news, but off topic, and has nothing to do with LENR.

      Although, I am interested in how they plan on writing software for any IC chips that may come out of this with super-fluid properties imbedded in it’s substrate.

      • georgehants

        alex, so you do not think that the Quantum has everything to do with Cold Fusion.

      • alex

        The article, as I interpret it, is the discovery of combining a photon with mass. Granted it is surprising news and could lead to new devices in computing power or to a brand new physics dynamic, but I don’t share the sentiment that particles are being fused together to create energy. Their was no mention of a reaction causing a radioactive decay in alpha, beta, or gamma.

  • X-prize

    Well it looks like Gary Wright is at it again!!
    .
    http://ecatdoteudotcom.wordpress.com/
    .
    http://www.opensourcelenr.com/
    .
    For the first time in history a true open source LENR project.
    Everyone on Planet Earth can be a part!

    ******************************************
    ******************************************

    • Karl

      Gary Wright = We already know the alias of the Krivit spoke writer.

      • Antonella

        do we?

        i missed something…

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          Yeah, who is he?
          I would guess it’s an alternate alias of “Steven Krivit” anyway.
          Same writing style, same character-killing strategy, same oh-that’s-so-funny pseudo sarcasm.

          • Ramo

            Yeah, I prefer Rossi’s style of writing, too. Sci-fi has always been my fav genre.

    • Ivan Mohorovicic

      What is this “Gary Wright” up to?
      First he clearly wants to destroy Rossi and people who had anything to do with him like Mats Lewan (sounds like Krivit’s strategy)

      Now he is setting up a website about a clearly bogus “open source LENR project”, purposedly written in a way one would give him ZERO credibility, and even asking for donations?

    • Robert Mockan

      The minimal cost of equipment that needs to be acquired to do LENR research and development is about $100,000. The minimal cost of overhead to keep a workplace open about $1000 per month. I speak from first hand experience because those are my costs, and I’ve been doing this for many years.
      Add to that another $1200 per month to cover cost of living. Unless one gets paid for working in the field, or has other sources of funding, the only time available to actually do the research and development is after regular job hours that pay the bills. That means one is trying to do creative thinking, researching the literature, attending scientific conventions, communicating with other scientists, and working in the laboratory, in time after job hours in some unrelated, usually mentally dulling, regular job. And people wonder why so few actually do real science in this field, unless professional scientists getting paid to work in this subject.

      A new investment vehicle is not needed. If you have something to say, write it and publish. If it is LENR related and what people want, they will pay to read what is published. Same goes for a product. No publish or product, no income. No income from other sources allowing one to spend all their time in research and development, then progress will be very slow. Everybody who has studied this field in depth has ideas on how to proceed, but very few have enough funds to do so.
      So the days, weeks, months, years, go by. And every moment of delay in development. people die.

      Welcome to hell on earth.

  • Brad Arnold

    If the West stifles LENR, then we’ll just see it emerge in China or India. Of course LENR Ni-H exothermic reaction is a proven scientific phenomena, so it just needs to be optomized for commercial viability, and there is significant indications that this is possible.

  • GreenWin

    Here’s some news re: Dr. Miley’s NETS presentation on an LENR-based RTG replacement for NASA.

    The NETS 2012 Logistics Chair confirmed that only the Tutorial and Plenary session videos were made available to the web:

    The NETS Tutorial and Plenary videos are available via the LPSC Livestream site at http://www.livestream.com/lpsc2012.

    The Plenary is very interesting in that the entire 1:30hr presentation is a review of NASA planetary exploration missions relying on RTG – radioisotope energy. These devices are markedly INefficient – 5-7% of the Pu238 is utilized as electric energy. And several NASA officials confirmed the near depletion of Pu238 in DOE reserves.

    Thus, the entire NASA Planetary Exploration program is in jeopardy. But wait! George Miley has a new kinda RTG base on LENR!! Holy mackeral George! This could make the ice boring submarine mission to Europa a REALITY!! If George and NASA Glenn RC can deliver – it’s PARTY time for space exploration! This is a great story. And an excellent way to introduce a world changing new source of energy. Eh??

    • Peter Hunt

      It is all very secretive and certainly not in the general public’s interest. Here is the DoE – now run by a scientist afraid to mention what other elements of the government are saying.

      Here is the Dept. of Defense acknowledging the phenomenon as real and useful but shutting down the research on the effort – at least in public. Do they want it all for themselves so the oil wars can continue to generate promotions an bigger toys?

      Here is the president’s Science Adviser with an approach or even a cure for Climate Change who sits silently approving the behavior of the POTUS and government in general.

      Are they shaking down the oil industry with their silence for political contribution to the Obama SuperPac?

      Here are the Brits, Indians, Australians Chinese, Japanese and Koreans along with MIT and others pushing the envelope as hard as they can and we sit covert and looking stupid in the surrender of the technology to others.
      Hell the Patent and Trade mark Office is still on hold with their power to embargo(read take) any good idea that comes along.

      None of this is good for our citizens short or long term.

      • RichyRoo

        The guys at the top of these organisations rely on ‘stability’. For them LENR presents a risk to their careers and what control they have over the future.

        • John

          That’s because there is no proof that LENR works. Imagine if someone came to them saying they’ve made a car that runs on water. What are they likely to do? Ignore them.

          • alex

            There are cars that run on the H in the H20. I have a partial conversion in my Impala. I get 58 mpg with a Fuel/Hydrogen, from dialysis, mix in my 2007. It draws 8 amps from my battery, a little more than my radio. The point is, the same reason every car isn’t set up with one of these, is the reason LENR isn’t in every house right now. Corruption. But, because we can’t prove that either skeptics and believers are in a moot point.

          • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

            there are many proofs.
            start by looking at celani conference at CERN, then US Navy SPAWAR conference, Mitsubishi/Iwamura experiment, Report 41 DeNinno experiment…

            the fact that people do’t react to LENR risk of being real is not even rational.

            it is the symptom of a rational denial according to Roland Benabou theory…
            some explanation there…
            http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40
            (sorry to repeat).

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            Alex–“I get 58 mpg with a Fuel/Hydrogen, from dialysis”

            It’s an ill wind that blows no good.

          • alex

            @ Iggy – I strayed a little from LENR, my apologies. The other does work, and will come to light eventually.

          • sapain

            actually there r cars that run on light. how coool is that.

      • JimK

        The government corruption, for whatever reason, is simply holding us back from real growth with this technology. Two solutions:

        1) We need to bypass governments and corporations and bring out an open source ECat.

        2) It’s way past time to sweep this totally corrupt government out of our lives. Our forefathers did batter. We can do better.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          if private sector was better, it would react too.
          it is a denial, not even nasty, just stupid, made by all the elite, and followed by those who depend on them…

          on of the result of Roland Benabou theory is that subordinates follow the denialism of leaders, by interest, but sincerely.

      • http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

        Sorry Peter, but as far as I can see, us Brits are doing sweet FA about LENR. Our government is so far up the nuclear industry’s er, rear end, that you only see the soles of their shoes.

        In the end, we’ll just do whatever the US does – but later and less efficiently.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        I never thought I would hope that China comes up with a breakthrough in LENR and announces it to the world. That is the only way the US government will be forced to acknowledge LENR and announce a Sputnik style “catch up” plan.

        • Andre

          China & Russia would both be well motivated to release their version of the ECat. Such an act would destroy the US Empire’s expansion and resource theft in the Middle East and Asia.

      • spacegoat

        Peter Hunt said “Are they shaking down the oil industry with their silence for political contribution to the Obama SuperPac?”

        There are alternatives to LENR such as thorium fission. Energy solutions are on the table.

        I believe the silence is in order that that a belligerent little state in the ME, that the US supports, can have their war with an adversary claiming nuke energy freedom.
        Of course energy solutions would blow this ruse out of the water.

    • TUB

      ”The NETS Tutorial and Plenary videos ”

      Sweet.

      Hanx

  • razised

    hahaha he’s so sorry he can’t say more… he would like but of course… you know… all these security concerns, government talks, factories that need to be kept secret…

    • alex

      It’s not national security, it’s corporate espionage hard at work. Trying to find a way to exploit this, so the average Joe scientist can’t reproduce it in his backyard. We won’t see a dime less in energy cost, but they will save billions.

      • sapain

        that`s what national security is, the protectionism of the elite.
        would it not be to the nations interest to have solar panels on every roof and have an independant electric grid, maufacturing and storage of it to protect against an event.
        solar helps to protect against inflation.
        brics group is now trading in their own currency, that`s close to 50% of the world population. a few more countries r joining, directly and indirectly. once this new system grows the usd will falter and inflation will hit the west.
        solar fixes the cost of energy for 1000s of years.

        • jacob

          i agree

  • http://neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    Good to see India is taking real steps to begin
    organized LENR cold fusion research. The first country with practical devices in the economy will have a huge advantage over those that lag behind using old world energy.

    Defkalion public reports on their series of tests should be released this month at the very latest according to all prior statements.

  • GreenWin

    What’s endlessly fascinating is the moth to the flame effect of sites such as this for pathoskeps. Here we have a site set up to discuss a device and technology that “promises to revolutionize the world of energy production.” About E-Cat World

    Those honestly disbelieving this overview would not be attracted to this site. Trolls living to spew negative FUD, propaganda and sewage – hang around. One can reasonably suggest pathoskeps go find a skeptosite. Remaining here confirms troll status and a pathology known as OCPD.

    • tom h

      very true!

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      Why did I not see that connection myself? Thanks much for the insight.

  • Roger Bird

    Waiting, waiting, waiting. Is it going be a boy or a girl? People used to worry about that sort of thing; stupid people still do. Is it going to be Rossi or Defkalion or twins. Even more important, is it going to be a stillbirth? Will “our” baby have all his or her fingers? The world awaits the most important technological achievement since the invention of fire, or no achievement at all.

    • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

      This article is like trying to figure out what they guys out in Italy ate by smelling their farts.

      • GreenWin

        An exercise of those with their heads up their… as far as we know, the longer the silence, the more profound the collapse of the Orthodoxy.

      • Ged

        Technically it is possible……..

        But hey, that’s what investigative reporting is all about.

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  • Mr. Derp

    why don’t you people just chill the fek out? peons with no power in a global climate of anxiety.

    • Ged

      It is interesting to watch. We’ll see Defkalion’s true colors this April, one way or another.

    • John Eddy

      Interesting how people who don’t have the wherewithal to look you in the eye when you are face to face feel free to spray indiscriminate insults around when they post online.

    • alex

      We’ll watch while you hit yourself on the head with a hammer Mr. Derp. There are a few hundred regulars on here who are pretty “chill”. Some of us are in the process of attempting replication. Either way, we’ll be there when this story breaks, while you’re still hitting yourself in the head.

  • jabba

    Ah this dude again. I remember his reports from the october demonstration, a lot of excitement and zero tangible information. An obvious Rossi fanboy. So here he goes again…

  • Lu

    Since this is Bologna I would imagine this has more to do with Rossi than Defkalion but maybe Defkalion and the Greeks are demonstrating success and the Italians want to do the same with Leonardo Corp.

    I’m going to go join Passerini by the river and wait, wait, wait….

    • Warthog

      Not necessarily. There is also Celani. If you recall his last slide on his own research, he is claiming excess heats of 1800 watts/gram for a nickel-hydrogen CF experiment, and as I recall 400 watts/gram for a palladium-deuterium cell of similar design.

  • Harold

    It really does not matter what we choose to believe. Events will unfold, when and how they should, regardless of our belief or skepticism. It is an exercise in Zen, whatever will be will be.

  • X-prize

    Calling All Scientists And Engineers Who Believe Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat is a Fraud.

    http://ecatdoteudotcom.wordpress.com/

    • Ged

      That is ridiculously silly. Opinions mean nothing here, we need facts one way or another, and there are none quite yet.

      • X-prize

        Did you even go read the post?
        .
        The Editor-in-Chief of Ny Teknik wrote Gary Wright asking for more information.
        .
        They want enough information to do a story about the opposite view versus what Mats Lewan has been posting about Rossi.

        **********

        • Ged

          Opinions isn’t “information”. Asking random engineers and scientists what they think about Rossi is not “information”. Information is hard facts in the form of data and documentation. A lot of that can be gleaned from what we have already seen half a year ago.

          Don’t waste your time on meaningless fluff.

          • alex

            True story, well said. Change all “information” to “speculation”. The only facts we have about LENR so far, is a lot of reputable scientists have done a lot of talking about the possibilities of the this science. We also have images of tests, and speculative data as to the proof. Krivit aka Wright, is on the path to discovery. Although his methods and blatant disregard for supportive speculation is pretty one sided and obtuse.

    • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

      Gary Wright is a rat. I have no respect for his move in Florida. That does not mean I respect Rossi and his methods. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • Ged

        Very sensible and true, I stand behind you 100% there.

  • sapain

    solar impulse.
    2 man airplane, 1st aircraft that can fly day and night without fuel. 26hrs, 10min and 19sec.
    gearing up for round the world trip this yr.

  • Pachu

    My hope its that quiet days means they are in fact working.

    • Ged

      Ironically, this is more often a true observation than not.

  • Tom h

    The suspense is killer!! Wait, wait, wait weve had enough of waiting!

    On the article sounds promising, and i believe he is probably right in what he says. The big corporations will be doing all they can to get in on the LENR bononza that is taking off. Hopefully the waiting will be over soon.

    • sapain

      that`s how inventors feel, wait, wait, wait for parts, equipment, money and time. sometimes for a bad result, only to try again until success or lost hope is realized.

      • clovis

        Hi,Guys.
        I agree Sapain, just the other day i had told my colleagues,that for people seeking the unknown, that failure must not deter re you from your appointed task,and if failure bothers you have no business continuing, in this field,because there are and always will be miscalculation,and moving back to witch ever part that caused the problem and do a work around, and try ,try ,try, again, the fun must be in the seeking of a thing that no one has any knowledge of .it is also said that when such a thing is found it is usually , very simple, and also very beautiful, for myself money could not by such a thing, i would immediately turn it over as a free source to the world ,—smile

  • http://www.electric-sailing.fi Pekka Janhunen

    “Maybe we all just need to sit by a river for a while.” River whose water is never the same (Rossi, freely quoting Heraclitus).

  • daniel maris

    Here’s hoping and watching…

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    Passerini also said in that post that he is confident we will have positive news from UniBO in 2-3 months at most, implying that they will be so good that hard skeptics might just stop posting completely when they will come out.

    • Allen McCloud

      Lets hope… maybe they can go back to their caves soon.

      • Drgdrgdrzgrndz

        EVERYONE should be a hard skeptic until it’s COMPLETELY proven beyond all reasonable doubt which wouldn’t require a massive easy to fall apart conspiracy being in place.

        We know it’s real when we have a working device, which can be tested independently, and be run for time periods which completely rule out chemical processes, and this is repeated in labs all across the world hundreds of times, using lots of independent measuring methods to come to the same conclusion.

        THEN we know it. Right now, Rossi is too busy hiding his catalyst to do that, but I’m happy to wait.

        • Ivan Mohorovicic

          Maybe I should haven’t used “hard skeptics”, since that term implies rational thinking and discussion. Daniele Passerini in reality was referring to certain people who brag about thinking that Rossi’s a scammer, that LENR is just the result of experimental error (when not scientific fraud), and patting themselves on their backs when they achieve “debunking” or even blocking attempts of LENR disclosure by other scientists, in order to preserve “the prestige of science”.

          More specifically with “funkyficio” (from the comment I’m talking about) he is referring to the blog of italian chemist Camillo Franchini, which is populated by such people (among which there is Ugo Bardi, who Steven Krivit featured in his latest “B-Cat” news entry).

          Hope this helps putting that comment into context.

        • C

          @Drgdrgdrzgrndz or we can state it works as soon as we have it instead of the boiler – as Rossi said it would soon be commercialized.
          Point is: until that (or until the test you said, which comes first) I agree we all should not believe.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          scientifically it is done, no reasonable doubt.
          http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=142

          about industry, no yet any hard proofs, except that from scientific data it is not so hard for good engineers.
          Also behavioral evidences, are clear that they both have something, and that Defkalion is self-confident, and unwilling to wait.

          however corporate calendar is very long.
          Don’t forget that Defkalion started to work on their own reactor in june 2011, and launched test call in january…
          the buzz (of sterling allan) that it should be finished mid-april, is possible but with burocratic testers it is quite hard-pace.

        • sapain

          an inventor tries to create, turn thought into reality, a skeptic tries to deny the inventor of that right.

          • Stephen

            You are a dreamer, which is nice…

            However not everything that shines is gold. I think nobody here wants to deny a true inventor the fame and respect he/she deserves. For instance I won’t deny there is something very cool in experiments about trasmutations and others… actually, it’s pretty exciting.

            Asking for a decent proof and behaviour is not lack of respect but rather the opposite. I won’t believe in anything people tell me, so you can be sure that when I believe it really means something.

    • Stephen

      Why are you so bored with people who are skeptics? We just ask to be forced to believe based on legends, words, fancy movies, secrets, rumours, etc, etc… we are just disappointed at hearing infinite lines of promises and delays, at reading about things which match much better the fraud than a real thing.

      I think this is the correct approach.

      When (if) eCat or Hyperion is proven to be truely working I won’t go back to my cave sweet cave but rather go and get drunk in a pub with beer and toast to our bright future. I will be very happy to be wrong… maybe even more than many of the “believers”. If I’ll stop posting it’s because I will be busy with beers ;)

      • C

        @Stephen I agree :D

      • Ged

        If such occurs, the real journey then will be enhancing the reactions and upscaling to useful levels of energy production, e.g. power plants.

        And that is no easy feat!

        • Stephen

          Indeed…

          If eCat is true (which I don’t believe very much) it seems to be easy.

          If LERNs are real (which I am kind of confident of)… well, it might be tricky. Finally people tried for over 20y to make this stuff work and we are still discussing whether it’s real or not. Sure with electricity it was similar maybe, but we don’t live in the XIX century, nor run after thunderstorms with kytes :) Today pretty advanced technologies and analysis techniques exist. I think a better comparison is with something intrinsecally complex such as high-temperature superconductivity, i.e. if we are unlucky we will never manage to make this stuff work in the real world. But let’s hope we will!