The Hope For an LENR Tomorrow

Thanks to the many readers who have responded to the previous post asking why people continue to follow the E-Cat/LENR story. There were many posts from people who are not regular posters, and a common theme in many of these comments was that the hope for a better energy source is what keeps people interested. This is something that I share — particularly in light of predictions about a world that is reliant on carbon fuels.

I watched a video today entitled “There’s No Tomorrow” produced by Incubate Pictures, and sponsored by the Post Carbon Institute which represents a fairly typical (and rather gloomy) world view that contemplates a future affected by the scarcity of carbon-based fuels. I don’t share the outlook of the authors of this film, but I do understand how this scenario can be the logical conclusion of people who seen no viable energy alternatives coming on the scene.

LENR technology, if it can be incorporated into real world useful energy products, would certainly change prediction about our energy future — and the first verifiable LENR device would indeed signal the beginning of a new energy age. Andrea Rossi’s recent announcement of a 1 MW plant that can be visited by the public may be a signal that he wants to be the first to put a working product into the public domain — perhaps as a response to Defkalion Green Technologies’ efforts to get their Hyperion technology into the marketplace (something Rossi says he will resist by legal means).

Going from “There’s no Tomorrow” to an LENR future that is bright with almost unlimited technological opportunity would be a huge paradigm shift — something that could transform today’s scarcity-based economic and political models. Yes, this is a compelling story, and its not surprising there are so many people riveted by it.

  • dayton

    IGNORANCE is no excuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    N.D. Bakken Oil find FRACKING 6Mi. down= 5^X10/9 bbls.
    of recoverable light sweet crude. South Texas 4^ X10/9 bbls. of recoverable light sweet crude (fracking) North Texas 3^? X10/9 bbls. of recoverable Oil (fracking) Rocky Mountain Range 1X10/12 of recoverable oil (fracking) 200yrs of oil at present usage no imports just exports estimates of 5trillion dollars worth in ND.

    • tom h

      LOL

    • Dayton

      Sorry my lousy math.
      5^ X10/11 N.D. 4.5^ X10/11 S. Texas ? X10/11 N.Texas

      The Rocky Mountains are still 1X10/12 recoverable oil

      Happy Motoring

      • tom h

        lol do some research pal

  • Tom h

    To daniael maris and the rest, peak oil doesnt have to bring our civilisation down, yes there are things that could and should of been done.

    however the facts of the matter are we are not doing anything about it and wont do anything about it untill a crisis hits which by then will be too late.

    Its more to do than just peak oil there are many other interwined problems peak oil us just the cheery on the top. We need a whole cultural change, we need to stand up and wake up and realise that our economy and life has been hijacked by a profit driven corporate monsters, we need take back control of our world as at the moment the whole system is in place to benefit them corporate monsters and banks etc.

    None of this can happen though untill people wake up and kick off at the moment these people control every aspect of our life, they control our food supply, our money supply, they contril our media and they control our politicians the whole system.is a fraud people need to wake up and realise.

    Talking of which there is a new film out which explains all of this its a fantastic film which should get people realising they have been screwed over by the banks and this corporate machine.

    http://www.fourhorsemenfilm.com/

    Watch the trailer very good.

  • Tom h

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/02/bhutan-world-suicidal-path?cat=world&type=article

    Good article on how our growth based financial system must change to avoid catastrophe:

    ” The tiny Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan,
    aghast at what it calls the world’s “suicidal
    path”, has called on heads of state and
    leading economists to come to the capital
    Thimphu for a global summit to reform the
    international financial system and the way
    countries measure progress.

    “We need to rethink our entire growth-
    based economy so that we can thrive more
    effectively on our own resources in
    harmony with nature. We do not need to
    accept as inevitable a world of impending
    climate chaos and financial collapse,” prime
    minister Jigmi Thinley will tell the UN in
    New York on Monday.

    Bhutan – sandwiched between China and
    India with a population about the size of
    Birmingham – has avoided social and
    economic chaos, he says, because it is not
    hooked to the materialist bandwagon and
    because it measures progress by the level
    of happiness among its citizens and not by
    gross domestic production.

    It proposes that purely economic measures
    of growth which count resource depletion
    and pollution as gains lead to ecological
    destruction and over-consumption.

    “Economic growth is mistakenly seen as
    synonymous with wellbeing. The faster we
    cut down forests and haul in fish stocks to
    extinction, the more GDP grows. Even
    crime, war, sickness, and natural disasters
    make GDP grow, simply because these ills
    cause money to be spent”, Thinley will say
    in Bhutan’s submission to the UN ahead of
    the Rio +20 earth summit in June.

    “The [global] economic system is in rapid
    meltdown. It is based on the premise of
    limitless growth on a finite planet. It has
    produced ever-widening inequalities with
    20% of the world now consuming 86% of its
    goods, while the poorest 20% consume 1%
    or less and emit 2% of the worlds
    greenhouse gases.”.

    Bhutan’s leaders argue that institutions like
    the World Bank and IMF, set up in 1944 to
    govern commercial and financial relations
    between the world’s major states, are now
    perilously outdated and must be reformed
    to avoid catastrophe.”

  • Tom h

    I hope your right clovis 😉 i too believe LENR is real and think and hope we are on the verge of a new energy revolution and a overall better world.

    However untill it gets commercialised it is not a reality and so is of no use to us. I really hope and believe that this technology will go mainstream over the next year or 2.

    LENR = hope for our childrens future. (therefore every one should get behind it even the skeptics, it will affect all of our lives)

  • clovis

    Hi everyone,
    i believe that LENR is real and it will soon change the world as we know it, i also think rossie should get his just accreditation for his effort
    in the development of LENR,Along with Pons & Fleischmann! and others this should be the most interesting thing ever. What a great time to be alive and see what men from past ages all deamed of.—-smile

  • tom h
  • Tom h

    One comment there is nothing that can replace oil.

    Only LENR has the potential to.

    • ilya-52
    • sapain

      algea will produce oil.
      alternatives will have no problem replace oil.
      take the subsidies away from carbon based fuels and nuclear and watch how fast it switches over.

      just bought an electric trike today for $2700, i can compete with other bussiness for delivery since my fuel cost is 0, no insurance and very low maintaince cost.
      discussing the concept of solarizing it to the dealer, he offered me a job on proof of completion, to help him expand the idea.
      so there u go, no oil, helping to support an industry other than oil and got a job to boot. wasn`t even looking for a job. pays to have multiple skills in the alternative field.

  • Tom h

    All i can say is LOL delusion is a great thing. Also i never once said we would run out overnyt.

    Let me clear something up WE WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF OIL. There will always be oil in the ground as we will/are getting to the point where it is costing a barrel of oil (energy input) just to get a barrel out (energy output) meaning we will not gain any energy from getting it out.

    Back in the day we use to get a 100 barrels out for 1 barrel of energy so the EROEI was 100:1 its now in the single units getting lower by the month.

    Do you no what im not even going to carry on this conversation you have obviously not done any research on the subject what so ever. I can tell from your comical replies, daniel maris when the coming economic collapse occurs due to PO or the coming shortages occur (there coming weather you like it or not) you will realise that you have been a blind fool and you will think i wish i would of listened tom h FACT 😉

    • BigWilly

      Doom and gloom. Energy/climate/economy catastrophe is always coming. We should all just kill ourselves because every day we walk outside there are ubiquitous signs of anarchy, death, misery and chaos that weren’t there before but now, abruptly, are here…

      I do agree that on of the factors of increased oil cost is the energy/or effort it requires to produce but also a large factor is increasing demand. These two blatant factors are not going to increase until we all die.

      As soon as it is economically beneficial to use something else, (any thing else), we will. In fact we always have.

      • tom h

        Hey im not all doom and gloom and its not my fault our unsustainable way of life has been built on cheap and plentiful oil.

        I would like to say i do not think the world will end everyone will die. I dont have the foggiest what is going to happen it all depends on the descions made by those up top. All i now is the 1st worlds way of life will end and we will become poorer (only the rich will carry on living our current luxurious way of life).

        As for the economic collapse that is coming it would of happened regardless of peak oil as the banks and financial elite have been screwing us over, the only reason it hasnt collapsed already is it is being propped up by trillions of dollars of printed money. But there is coming a point where we can print no more and so it will collapse (it will probably be triggered by the eurozone)

        and as for your final comment of we will use something else, i will say it again there is nothing that can replace oil the only thing that can replace oil is if LENR gets commercialised, the sheer amount of oil we use and its high EROEI cant be replaced by current energy forms.

        • sapain

          it actually starts at the bottom with the people, it is they that support the current system.
          once u buy solar u will not need to buy anymore power. start a self employed full or part time bussiness and use r imcome tax to pay for it, and save 1000s per yr which is just a good as earning 1000s per yr.

          actually china and india and a few other countries r working on and r going to kill oil.
          the conflict over iran isn`t about iran nuclear, it`s about affecting the bric bloc and their attack on the petrodollar and mass production of solar. countries do not want to b controlled and extorted by the petrodollar.
          china has forced solar down by $4/watt in 4 yrs and have taken quite a chunk out of the us solar market profits and has forced them to lower their price. give them another few yrs and it will be at $1.50/watt. at $1.50/watt coal can`t compete, never mind oil. add up how much revenue and control alternatives have taken away and will take away from the carbon industry. they r losing their monopoly, the ogliarch`s dream.

          the world functioned without oil for many yrs, oil has been here for 80. the only thing oil did was to speed up development. so the development slows down, that means the elite don`t make as much money. but who cares about them as long as people have electricity to meet their needs, food in their bellies, a roof over their head and something to do to distract from the onset of boredom.

          china knows that silicon is vertually free and solar can lower the cost of production even more, very good economics. that`s why the western economies r in the red and why bric is in the black.

    • tom h

      daniel maris i will repeat my earlier question who is going to pay for all these solar panels and electric motors?? THE WESTERN WORLD IS BROKE!
      If you think the oil companies and banks are going to pay for it then you really are delusional.

      Plus where are the materils going t come from we arent just running out of energy were runing out of vital materials which we use in our technology.

      I will await your answer

      • Bigwilly

        What are we going to do?

        Is the answer you are looking for that everything will just stop.

        “Thats it folks, we ran out of material or gas or whatever. Ummm, thanks for participating in civilization but it is now over. KTHXBYE” ??

        • Filip

          I think Tom h made his point by now, didn’t you Tom h?

          • tom h

            yes filip i have.

            and i am rather down by the fact so many people just dont get the serious crisis approaching. Unless people wake up sharpish then a die off is inevitable.

            Filip please say you understand?

            has anyone even watched the crisis of civilisation video i posted? i suspect not, how sad 🙁

          • tom h

            filip see my comment on your ted talk comment.

            very good from paul gliding only thing is he is way over optimistic towards the end but i suppose he has to.

        • tom h

          lol (sighs) we really are screwed people just dont get it how sad for our children.

          I will say no more, over the next years it will start to sink in.

          One thing though there is nothing that can be done hence why no government will even mention it as if they mention it they have to have a solution and there is no solution because as i keep saying we have left it too late to transition to renewabales.

          Now you carry on thinking the worlds a rosy place you have a shock coming.

          • sapain

            when enough people wake up and walk into the fed and arrest them and then arrest the bankers and politicans supporting them, the financial crissis is over. walk in and delete the profits from the fiat systems.
            the people say, fed we owe u nothing, national debt gone in a blink. remove the illegal profits from the banker`s books, personal debt gone. start from there, smooth sailing.

      • daniel maris

        All the western world is investing heavily in green energy. Germany is on track to be 100% energy by 2050. Why do you say they can’t afford it? Once the investment is paid for most green energy sources are v. cheap. That’s the case for wind, solar and tidal energy for instance.

        As with all these things it is the consumer or the taxpayer who pays for the investment.

        A lot of nonsense is talked about materials shortages. Rare earths for instance are widely available across the planet, it’s just that in the rich, well developed world we don’t like to get involved in the dirty business of mining them.

        Lots of materials can substitute for others. We could return to more glass packaging to substitute for plastic, for instance. We could grow oil plants to make organic plastics.

        We could substitute things like fibre glass for metal in lots of uses. We could use basalt bricks…There are all sorts of substitutions we could make.

        We can still increase recycling substantially. Recycling rates of 75-80% should be achievable. In the UK we are only around 40% I think.

        • sapain

          i`m a metal picker, found 6oz of palladium on one day of hunting. bonzi.

      • sapain

        the earth`s composition of sio2 is 23% or so, that an endless supply of silicon.
        hydroelectric, focused solar can melt and shape it to solar cells.
        true cost of solar is about $0.10/watt. the rest is financial gouging for fast investment recovery.
        electric motors r cheap, $100/hp.

        bankers and the carbon field do not want individual alternative power systems, no profit.
        the world is going to become more relaxed and laid back. what`s this need for unlimited wealth. i would rather go fishing, camping, exploring 5 days a week than work 5 days a week making a banker rich. that`s why i am self employed, no one to dictate terms to me.

  • Filip

    Check this. He was also on TED talk march 28th.
    sciradioactive.com

  • Ramp

    No I don’t have any hope for “an LEARN”. My grammar teacher told me that L is a consonant.

  • GreenWin

    At a minimum we can acknowledge the revisit of cold fusion has given the East and West pause. It is a disruptive energy because it forces us to confront our behavior over the last century. We have allowed the corporate military industrial complex to co-opt our freedoms. We were warned this was coming 50 years ago.

    With the advent of distributed energy, people will become wealthier, retaining 80% of their monthly energy bills. This new income will be recycled into the local economies. Low cost electricity is the key to ocean desalination. Abundant fresh water means an end to drought on arid land mass, greatly expanded food production, and subsequent reduction in reasons for conflict and war. Conservation expands as reason to cut forest for fuel contracts, zero energy pollution clears air and oceans, and greenhouse effect disappears.

    We are challenged to end not just our addiction to fossil fuels – but the industrial empire that has made the addiction easy. World energy resources in the hands of a few corrupt politicians and industrialists has made the problem worse.

    I for one am greatly appreciative of the work the LENR/cold fusion community is doing. They are forcing us to re-examine our way of life, and to consider how much better our civilization could be. The courageous few pioneering the LENR field are to be lauded. They are helping us all in ways we have yet to fully comprehend.

  • Pingback: The Hope For an LENR Tomorrow | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • David

    L.E.N.R chatt Today

    Ask a question today 19:00 Swedish timezon to Ian Bryce – Chief Investigator, Australian Skeptics.

    Also Peter Gluck will be online

    http://lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=132&p=316#p316

  • tom h

    i suggest people watch this documentary its alot better than the no tommorow one. and shows its not just energy depletion we have to worry about, i urge all to watch and please people wake up, we are asleep at the wheel, if you have kids you owe it to them to do some proper research on this issue and i dont mean half hour.

    http://crisisofcivilization.com/watch/

    • tom h

      i suggest you watch aswell frank (admin) you then will understand that peak oil is just the tip of many inter wined crisis coming. there are a total of 5 crisis altogether that are all part of our global system and its that system that is slowly collapsing.

      People need to look at the crisis as one and then they will realise the problems we face, its a good watch.

      • sapain

        all five sub crisses r caused by one, energy in the form of controlled carbon based fuels.
        once that is gone the crisses disappear.
        just support the alternatives instead of the mega corps.

  • Tom h

    The thing your not getting is the sheer amount of oil we use. To switch from oil to renewables will take a long time and alot of money (the whole of the western world is broke, donr you get that) let alone the fact solar etc require rare earth meatetials which are also depleting fast.

    Plus how does solar help with delivering food? Dont say electric cars because its a pipe dream which too requires rare earth materials to build the electric motors.

    O yes nearly forgot one important factor it requires vast amounts of oil to make, transport and install these renewable energies. It requires oil to drill the rare earth materials, then needs oil to manufacture it, it then needs oil to be transported (virtually all.rare earth materials come from.china) and then requires oil to install it. So yes maybe we could transition over to solar etc buy as i said y,day we needed to start it 20 years before peak oil hit. If we leave it till a crisis hits (which we will) it will be too late the oil.and money wont be there to do it.

    http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report

    Daniel maris can you tell me who is going to pay for all this renewable energy?

    As for whay warthog said, you should read sparks reply for 1. 2nd this problem is not about reserves, it is about extraction rates, unconventional sources of oil tar sands etc cant be brought out the grand quick enough to replace the depleting conventional.sources of oil. So it doesnt matter if we have trillions barrels of oil under the ground if we cant get it out the ground quick enough.

    Think of it like this, imagine your a millionaire but could only take money out of a cash point machine which has a limit of 300 pounds a day. You need 3 grand that day asap, but you can only take out 300 so therefore it will take you 10 days to get it out. So even though you have a million pounds in reserve you cant get the 3 grand out you so desperatly need, that will be our situation soon enough.

    People there is only one hope to stop the catastrophic crisis coming and that is LENR, tar sands, gas, solar etc just isnt going to stop it, they will all help a bit but we use a staggering 40,000 gallons of oil every second we are addicted and we rely on it, it is the worlds blood, anf only LENR will be able to stop the bleeding.

    If people search up properly on this life changing problem you will see that all the imformation is out there. The government will not tell you the truth, and they will not warn you or be there when the crisis hits it will be every man for them selves.

    I dont know what the world will be like in 10/20 years time and im not saying its gonna be the end of the world. I dont know no one does but change is coming and our wasteful, unsustainable lives of luxury will be the first to go.

    Main point is there is too many of us in the world, and the 1st worlds way of life cant last no longer.

    • jacob

      good points, for our prosperity to continue
      we have to get get rid of our oil habits
      LENR may be a start

    • daniel maris

      I was probably wrong to say “expensive”. I really meant in contrast to cold fusion.

      But in contrast to coal, oil and gas, renewable energy is not that bad. In some places solar and wind outperform other forms of energy.

      The idea however that oil, gas and coal will run out overnight is absurd. There will be a long run down period. Natural gas can easily subsitute for petrol (gas) by the way. There are parts of the world where they are quite common. They just take up a bit of your boot space. Electric cars are v. cheap to run and Toyota recently announced they have developed a new battery which will cost about 20% of the present ones.

      Researchers have already created electric roads, so cars don’t actually need batteries. We could start building those tomorrow if we had the will and they aren’t actually that expensive to produce. Much cheaper than electrifying a railway.

      You have a very limited way of thinking. You shoudl see all the opportunities and not just all the difficulties. We could easily do without oil, gas and coal and still enjoy prosperity. Germany has already made the decision to move to 100% renewables by 2050.

      The world wouldn’t implode tomorrow even if we had to pay 50% more for our energy. But the cost of green energy is coming down dramatically.

      • daniel maris

        I should have said with electric roads, cars don’t need BIG batteries. Electric cars obviously still need batteries.

        • sapain

          yes, i`m having conversions with people to set up solar charging station for electric bikes.

      • Tom h

        See above comment

    • sapain

      solar can supply it`s own energy to be created.
      get a shovel and dig 100 lbs of sand and u have enough raw material to supply ur own electrical energy for ur life and ur childrens life.

  • sapain

    i don`t use carbon based fuel, so i don`t believe in the concept of energy shortage.
    solar panels and windmill give me more electricity than i use. electric vehicle for transportation. didn`t cost anything, tax write off. led lighting, switches to stop vampire bleeds of electricity. passive solar heating, hydrogen for cooking and supplemental heating. a few sticks of wood for emergencies. self sufficency with comfort.

    in 4 yrs solar dropped from $6.60/watt to $2.40/watt retail. 2012 it will hit $2/watt. in another few years it will hit $1.50/watt. right now, a 1.5kw system costs $3600 plus grid inverter and/or batteries, $5-6,000. for 25-50yrs. the panels can be taken in to get refurbished and then reused for another 25-50yrs and so on.

    solar is an energy converter and the energy it converts can b used to produce more in a self replicating system at an exponential growth rate. it`s energy source won`t run out for 65 billion yrs.

    algea has a lipid content of 25-30% and also has potential as food. easy to grow, low tech.
    hemp is another valuable commodity.

    tidal power has 4 cycles per day.
    most population r on coastal areas, so wave, wind tidal, current, algea and solar will provide. solar, wind, hydro, geothermal and algea for the interior.

    lenr is another clean system waiting to emerge.

    problem is, r people willing to support and help develop the alternatives or keep being slaves to the carbon system.
    if people don`t support the current alternative systems, r people going to support lenr.

    • jacob

      If LENR heaters are available to plumbers and
      heating professionals ,it will be a revolution
      and can be added on most heating systems in most
      homes and businesses.
      we want LENR ,we demand it

      • sapain

        we all want to c lenr, my question is, do u support the alternatives. ie buy a few solar panels, a windmill, an electric bike or car, invest in alternative stocks, encourage people to buy and use alternatives, research and develop an existing alternative.
        when solar hits $1/watt retail, for those that don`t want to b self employeed, they will have a life time of energy for $2000.

  • dsm

    The question I would ask is “how can Rossi stop Defkalion by legal means”

    Rossi has no patent outside Greece & both his international applications were rejected whereas Piantelli’s 2008 (Italy, 2009 Internationally) Powdered Ni+H patent wasn’t.

    There is no evidence Defkalion borrowed anything from Rossi as their machine is derived from Piantelli’s 1995 & 2008 patent applications.

    Piantelli let his 1995 patent lapse so anyone could copy it.

    Rossi has nothing by which he can threaten DGT unless he could produce some evidence that they ‘stole’ something from him, which he already says hasn’t happened ?.

    DSM

    • dsm

      Correction: “Rossi has no patent outside Italy”

      DSM

  • hydrino

    More expensive energy is correct caveat – because we have not really had to. We rely on easily (?) obtained
    oil, coal natural gas and nuclear. Take oil out of the equation ok. We have VAST reserves of shale oil however it isnt in a good place to get at it. WE may need nuclear power to help us get it out of the ground!
    So yea it aint all doom & gloom.
    PS we do not have LENR! All we have is PROMISES of someone who might maybe someday be able to produce a workable device. So no we do not have LENR.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      What are the names of the people you say are promising us LENR?

    • sapain

      if ur going to invest 6 billion for a nucleur converter and billions on fuel, why not simply use the billions for solar, wind, tidal, current and algea. the fuel is free. oil can be used for plastics for solar thermal heat, containers to go algea.

  • http://www.grupoice.com Jorge Jimenez

    Thanks to ECAT world, as many as you have put before the public a forum to discern between doubts and hits a little light to give us glimpses of what is coming, what is brewing, keeping hopes in the proliferation of our species and the definite possibility that all of humanity, can come to have zero energy deficit.

    No doubt that in this expectation, we may be being deceived by fate, but I’m still thinking that the only fraud we have in all this is our own ignorance. Humans could all solve the big global energy deficit, but we take our worst fault, “the selfishness and stupidity.” It will be time for that transparency and dignity will again be our battle flag. Meanwhile I’ll keep hope someone still good even trust, Andrea Rossi, will democratize its domestic Ecat cheap energy for everyone and that true freedom and security of the future for many residents of this beautiful land still ..

  • bkrharold

    I watched the entire video, and I agree with most of it. However there have been some recent developments in Biofuels which are very encouraging. In one study they have been able to produce 12 times the amount of fuel that can be obtained from corn, using a fast growing plant called giant Miscanthus

    http://gas2.org/2012/02/23/company-claims-12x-more-biofuel-yield-per-acre-than-corn-ethanol/

    Other researchers in biofuel have obtained promising results by genetic engineering of the algae and bacteria enhance the yield of fuel.

    So if LENR does not pan out, all is not lost.

    I am quite optimistic that LENR will eventually make a useful contribution to the worlds energy problems. However it will take a little longer than the 12-18 months promised by Rossi. This is not to say that I believe he is trying to deceive anybody. What he is attempting to do is such an enormous venture, it would be daunting for a large company with thousands of employees, and billions of dollars at its disposal. Either Rossi, or one of his competitors will rush something to the market sometime in the next year or two. It will probably not be polished and ready for prime time. However it will once and for all put paid to the bleating of the eternal “skeptics”, because it will definitely work as advertised.

    I also agree with the common sense suggestions at the end of the video, conservation, buying food grown locally, recycling, and generally acting more responsibly towards our planet and its environment. This is a philosophy which makes sense, even if we do have access to cheap and abundant power, out of respect for nature and for the Earth and the other animals with which we share this beautiful plant.

    • Wizer13

      Very interesting about this biofuel. There’s also the product of Bleu petroleum which recycles carbon emissions from a factory.
      http://www.biopetroleo.com/english/

      For now, it is not viable for energy input – takes about the equivalent of 6 barrel of oil to produce 1 barrel of bleu petroleum-, but their ratio was a production of twice the amount of algae with solar light and carbon emission recycling, and producing food as a boon. If they combine those two methods together, it would take less space than what I previously calculated using only the method of BFS bio petroleum for producing the yearly need in oil – which was about one third of the space occupied by the forests on the territory of France.

      But, I would like to see a world independent of the oil cartel, but, just to say, we are not out of solutions.

      • sapain

        there r large algea farms already, using alternative to cut expenses. need community based algea farms. good way of getting rid of fish, bone and co2 and other domestic waste.

        • wizer13

          Hehe, good then.

          I calculated that I would take 15515 cargo tanks to produce the yearly consumption of oil using this method mentionned by bkrharold. The surface would be around 620 kilometers square, or 62000 hectares. Much more encouraging than 6.1 billion hectares (one third of the forest occupied on the territory of France for comparision), Just stack up the cargos, and you can reduce the surface. They would have a sustainable supply, as many ethanol fields could be replaced by this technology to have raw materials, or recycling carbon emission from factories, and it would produce great fertilizers for agriculture.

          • wizer13

            oups, my mistake, I misread gallons for barrels (42 gallons equals 1 barrel). So the correct numbers would be a surface of 26 880 km square, or 2688000 hectares of cargo tanks to meet the yearly demand. But hey, at least it’s still just 1/3000 of surface that would occupy the example of Bio petroleum.

          • sapain

            go to the ocean, invest in a uav with optics, get a boat, hunt algea blooms and/or develop an algea extractor.
            algea needs phosphorous, so fish waste would b a cheap source of food for algea on coastal development site, tidal, wave and wind r right on hand for cheap energy.

  • tom h

    “it would just be rather expensive energy” well ye obviously, thats the whole point. Our economic system and civilisation itself, has been built on cheap energy, mainly oil.

    Our economic system is built on debt and the premise that there will always be growth (there has to be to pay back all that debt and interest). Without cheap energy (mainly oil) we can not have growth, and without growth all the western worlds debts cant be paid back (ala euro zone crisis). The result will be mass bankruptcy which will trigger a catastrophic econmic collapse.

    Furthermore oil impacts every aspect of our life and most (if not all vital commodities), so if the price goes up so does everything else, the main one is food (it takes 10 calories of fossil fuels to produce 1 calorie of food). Even though all these commodities are going up in price peoples wages will be staying the same plus most people will be losing jobs (dont forget the government wont be able to help as they have there own financial problems, there probably be bankrupt meaning know benefits meaning your own).

    I could right a whole essay on this but you should be getting the picture by now. The bottom line is unless your rich then expensive energy is going to become a big problem in your life over the next decade along with survival.

    • tom h

      O i nearly forgot one more thing daniel maris. Yes there are other energy like solar etc but they will take decades to scale up to replace depleting fossil fuels, the facts is we would of had to start the transition from oil to renewables along time ago (around 20 years ago) for it to have an impact, (i urge you to search up the hirsch report).

      While your there look up a concept call energy returned on energy invested (EROIE) none if them have any where near as close EROIE as oil.

      The bottom line is not only will we have expensive energy but we are also going to have shortages by around 2015 (even the US and german army say so look it up its all there). I could and probably will tomorrow provide well into double figures articles from mainstream newspapers and websites, i am just very tired so am off to sleep but i just has to say something on your “only expensive energy” comment 😉

      • tom h

        ok just the one as i just rechecked your comment and noticed the “there be no shortages” comment.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/11/peak-oil-production-supply?cat=business&type=article

        this is from 2010 so the $100 barrel oil remark bit out dated we alrweady well ahead of that at $120 rising all the time.

      • Warthog

        “There is no tomorrow” has been cancelled. The immediate solution is horizontal drilling and natural gas from shale. The US has proven reserves of this energy source sufficient for 200 or more years. Nobody knows what the total global reserves of this resource might be, as the technology is too new and the potential gas (and oil) bearing strata have not been identified or explored, but I doubt they will be any less “per continental area” than the reserves in the US.

        • sparks

          Too bad our transportation can’t use natural gas. Now, if we undertake a crash program and convert over to nat gas over the next (say) 10 years (good luck with that), then suddenly we will only have 15 years of natural gas left, at the much-increased rate of consumption that would bring.

      • daniel maris

        There will be no energy shortages.

        Total green energy could be put in place within 5 years if there was a really pressing need to do so. However, oil and gas are not going to disappear overnight.

        • Tom h

          Hahaha you are delusional my friend. O well when the coming shortages come remember this conversation. O and when.your struggling for food in the future dont say you werny warned.

          • sapain

            nonsence, solar is expanding exponentially now.
            2009-12GW
            2010-24GW
            2011-60GW

            a little more investment and support,we can drive up production levels to 200-500GW/yr with no problem.

            solar is a better investment than gas and oil will ever b. it will last indefinitely.

            solar produced oil, coal and gas to begin with, problem is, investor r more worried about there wallet and a quick buck than the planet.

          • tom h

            wow!! not lol. Your numbers are small compared to the 15 terawatts of energy the world consumes in a year, which is virtually all derived from fossil fuels mainly oil.

            People dont seem to understand just how big our addiction to fossil fuel is, it will take years to scale up to replace oil, years we just dont have left. Look at my link up top about hirsch report.

            Also investment from where and who? All the governments are drowning in debt, debt that cant be paid back without cheap energy to fuel the required economic growth.

            It seems to me that people are just as ignorant to the facts of peak oil as many of the sceptics towrads LENR is. As i say to people who say LENR is a fraud look at the true facts, i will say the same to the peak oil deniers we have a serious situation.

            have a read of that very good at explaining all the points even if you dont believe in the die off he mentions.

            http://www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/traducao-DieOff.pdf

          • sapain

            from 15TW, subtract the amount of energy already produced by hydroelectric, alternatives, nucleur. then divid by 500GW and that`s yrs to full electric.
            the alternative industry is pushing for a TW/yr by 2030, i think it will happen sooner.

        • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

          I have made the computation, to replace all world energy by Hyperion as described by their spec and data from the forum.

          I’ve extracted the data there
          http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27#p28
          the hypothesis is using hyperion from electricity with 33% efficiency (easy with 350-415C temperature and classic honest steam/organic rankine turbine)

          the result is that :
          10% of world nickel production is enough (no nickel recycling assumed).

          about hyperion building, I reach
          15%GDP investment for building reactors.
          about maintenance I reach a
          cost of maintenance of 0,5%GDP
          and nickel 0.004% GDP

          the cost of electricity will be ten times less nuclear energy today.

          note that my computation is based on home device. mass production device should be much cheaper per kW capacity and kWh produced.

          so LENR will not be free energy, but energy that cost no natural resource, no geopolitic risk, only work…

          it will reduce the military cost, the dictatorship support, the terrorism, the oligarchy, linked to oil.

          this energy is hard to privatize, sine the resource is abundant and cheap, since the technology is simple, and since it is hard to patent since most is already public.

          for transportation the transition might take 5-20 years, but it will reduce the artificial price of oil, to avoid being replaced in 2-3 years if todays price continue.

          it will kill all other fixed energy sources, and nuclear powerplant will be dismantled giving much job but no future to fission nuclear companies.

          electricity will cost 10 times less

      • sparks

        Tom H, you are spot on. I would only add: The entire world (ex-china) has been in a deep recession since 2008, and yet, the price of oil remains stubbornly above $100 per barrel. Now, as was inevitable, the recession is finally hitting China. Only extreme money printing and failure to enforce black-letter law regarding bank practices have kept the wheels from falling completely off the wagon. And yet, for all of this manipulation, we get only a few-percent bounce off of a deep bottom (housing, employment, baltic dry goods shipment, ….). If we weren’t in a deep global recession, oil would be $200 per barrel.

        • sapain

          actually the bric countries r doing quite well. they have slowed, but that`s from the western disruption of the financial system. the west is trying to control bric`s energy and economic flow.
          oil nations have no debt. the only countries that r in debt r the countries that have international bankers bleeding them dry.

    • daniel maris

      Tom H,

      You don’t seem to understand economics much.

      The most successful economy in Germany is the one most committed to green energy.

      Whilst it is true cheap energy will boost economic activity, for many economies, developing indigenous green energy makes economic sense, as it eliminates energy imports.

      I should perhaps have said as well that the energy is expensive up front but green energy is becoming increasingly competitive. However, it will never deliver really cheap energy – the promise held out by LENR.

      • daniel maris

        Sorry – meant to write that Germany has the most successful economy in Europe.

      • tom h

        no my friend you dont seem to understand reality, or the concept of EROIE or the fact that no one apart from the rich will be able to pay for this expensive energy. this is not a problem economics can fix its a geology problem.

        also as oil goes up so does the cost of solar, wind etc because as ive already said you need oil to manufacture, transport, install and extract the materials needed.

        not going to waste my breathe anymore over the next years as the economic crashes become worse and as the joe average get poorer and poorer people will start to wake up, its just a shame by then it will be too late.

        as i said pray LENR gets commercialised otherwise our species is in for some troubling times.

      • sapain

        yep, look at the billions china and india pull in selling solar. they make lots because the west is greedy and play on that fault.
        even china is pissed at the west for not dealing with the international fraudsters.

  • Wizer13

    What I find hard to believe – in fact, I don’t-, is that after many oil crisis through the last decades, we should arrive at the same point of civilisation collapsing, chaos running free, yadda yadda.
    The oil cartel is compose of business men. Of course they will continue to profit over high prices, but, come on, do people really think they didn’t think it out ? They are other options for energy, and some inventions were suppressed because it would have mean a collapse in their economic system. As for my own opinion – whatever the doomsayers will tell -, I think they already have many jokers in their hands, and each of them consist in maintaining people as slaves. As long as people pay, they’re happy damaging environment and waging war as long as others die for their sins. Should they fail to provide the market they build, something else will take the lead, because that’s the way progress goes.
    I’m no religious nut or environmental guru, i’m just saying that each generation saw the same predictions about finite ressources, doom coming, and i’m just sick of this negativism. Only time will tell, and, as for now, humanity has always prove wrong to those who said we couldn’t do better.

    So, whatever people will tell me about the end of civilisation, I will tell this : humanity will thrive, adjust and adapt, has it always did, for better or for worst. But keep hope, because crying wolf don’t help evolution.

    • Filip

      Agree.
      I am 47 years old, I have been on the virge of many so called apocalypses…

  • Ivan Mohorovicic

    I haven’t watched it all (although seeing bits here and there I well see what it’s mainly about), but the conclusion of the video represents the secret dream of enviro-nuts (which probably its authors are as well): a deindustrialized, technologically regressed world where Western people (main target of this video) will live a slower and harder life to “pay their debts to the third world and the Environment”.

    LENR not only will defeat Big Oil’s cartel and put an end to the decarbonization BS, but also separate those who really care about the environment from the nichilists who really just use environmentalism as an excuse to vent their frustrations (with scaremongering like this video, for example) toward more successful, richer groups.

    • GreenWin

      Well put Ivan. The most difficult act for humanity is to change their entire outlook on life. It takes enormous COURAGE to think positively about our world and the universe.

      Unfortunately all the gloom and doom in the world does not produce solutions. What does, it the irrepressible action of the few who refuse to subscribe to fear scenarios.

      The fact is the universe is abundant in energy. We KNOW this yet refuse to invest the effort to understand how to utilize it. The new attention on LENR proves beyond doubt the underlying fact – there are ways to obtain energy over-unity we understand little about. With positive thinking, hope, hard work, we will learn enough to put this, the tip of energy abundance to good use.

  • daniel maris

    I don’t think there would be an energy shortage even if we did not have LENR. It would just be rather expensive energy, that’s all. But there’s plenty of energy out there: wind, wave, solar, geothermal, tidal, sea current, hydro, biomass, energy from waste…it’s a long list.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      In a sense there is plentiful energy available, it is just diffuse and difficult to gather. As a result it would require other types of investment, in more efficient use of energy (insulate homes, go to diesel, more efficient computers and monitors) or a change in our way of living by moving closer to work and not trying to spread your life over hundreds of square miles (gotta drive the kids all over for this or that event). The Germans have pushed renewables and have employed a great many people in that industry. It seems to me that the end result is the wealth will be spread around more evenly as those many people at the bottom with their many hands will need to be employed in the gathering of the very diffuse energy available via renewables. I still hope LENR works a miracle soon.

    • sparks

      What little is left of the global economy cannot afford expensive energy. Well, I take that back a bit. China and India, who use energy much more efficiently than the OECD nations, can afford a lot higher energy prices than the rest of us. So the OECD nations will decrease, while “Chindia” will increase, as energy prices continue their inexorable rise.

      • sapain

        i don`t pay for energy. i am self employeed and use the tax deduction to 0 out my cost.
        the bad old national bankers created income tax to pay for and garentee their free money, well i would rather spend it on alternatives than a government welfare case(politican) by using the forced income tax and other taxes to do so.
        study bussiness and bussiness tax law and u will c why the rich get richer.

        a non bussiness person can not use taxes, energy, purchases of material or dwellings to lower the net earnings which will lower their amount of income tax, but a self employeed person can, leases r 100%, energy is 100%, taxes such as on land, retail etc, r 100%, insurance is 100% deductable lowering ur net earnings for income tax amplication.
        the tax systems is basically set up so u either spend towards bussiness development or the government will tax u and do it for u. it`s to ur benefit to b full or part time self employed. out fox the fox.