Report From Visitor to Defkalion

A report from someone who has claimed to visit Defkalion in Greece has been posted on the chrismastenson.com’s forum. The visitor states:

G’Day, I was JUST in Athens and met with representatives of Defkalion. They told me that they were going to begin selling their LENR device this July 2012. I was shown their R&D model which just starts with a flick of the switch. It also turns off with a just a flick of the same switch. They have their model running at 250degc. They can get their LENR to run over 350degc (dry steam), but they need something more than the current fluid that they are using. Rossi has problem shutting down his E-CAT. Rossi is a “one-man-band” and Defkalion has 27 scientists.

Several groups have come to see them including NASA . . . I went there to investigate possible investment. They only want BIG investors. They have MANY OEM (original equipment manufacturers) already on board internationally. They intend to manufacture 300,000 units in the first year. It will cost only 30 Euros/year to operate each LENR device

They have all the European certificates. Everyone else in the world recognises the EU certificates, except the United States. Defkalion had decided the US is in the ‘too-hard-basket’ and won’t manufacture or sell to the US. The units will be monitored via mobile telephone or internet to insure their proper operation.

I was told that they were trying to actually see what happens in their device with some glass with a melting point of 1500degc. They saw it light up like the sun and then it melted the glass. This just took a second or two. I was told what their working theory was, but they really don’t know what is going on. They have brought in several academics with a myraid of explanations . . .

I was told specifics, but was asked to keep them confidential.

An anonymous report on a web forum like this should of course be treated with a degree of caution — no identity of the poster except for the handle ‘woomera’ is provided — but it is interesting nevertheless. Since DGT shut down their forum there has been little news coming out of Greece, so this is especially noteworthy. It should be noted, too, that the poster is reporting what he was told by DGT — he/she only reports seeing the R&D model.

For a long time Rossi seems to have been acting under the assumption that Defkalion’s claims to have working devices were simply bluff and talk — he now is allowing for the chance that they may have something. If DGT do start marketing their products they are surely prepared to deal with legal action from Leonardo Corporation. Andrea Rossi stated recently, “there is around some clown who is very happy to proclaim that has copied us: there are 99.9% probabilities that it is a mock up to steal money from some investor, and 0.1% probabilities that they have something working: in this last case, our Attorneys will stop them, and I can guarantee that this is more than sure.”

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  • Barry

    I appreciate the site. LENR science is dawning and I’m hanging on the news day by day to follow development, but as a policy you might want to consider featuring people in your articles who use their real names. It’s hard enough finding out who is telling the truth and who isn’t. People who use fictitious nicknames can say anything.

  • Plumber

    Don´t talk – act!
    I have read the papers and do some research
    - i try to build my own E-Cat – also Ni-Powder/H.
    I will test it in a few days for the first time
    and hope to get some results….

    • jacob

      good for you ,and i hope you can make it
      work , and when you do just share it with the
      world , i hope you get at a cop of at least 10
      i work on free energy centrifugal force machines
      or space time machines running at 20000 g’s at
      12000rpm ,forcing oil through tiny nozzles at a
      cop of 18 , folks the sky is the limit ,study
      tesla ,viktor schauberger ,testatica ,swing a hammer
      to drive a nail ,using centrifugal force ,dont believe anything in a text book , what is taught
      in schools is outdated by 60 years , all planets are hollow , unlearn what you have learned it was just a half truth.
      static electricity is very useful , nature uses it
      in the form of lightning , lightning explodes water molecules to give you thunder, school taught us clouds collide to create thunder and you
      believed it ,and you believed the big bang ,and you believe monkeys are our ancestry ,our ancestry
      are space travelers , from other planets etc.

      don’t be fooled , i hope e-cat technology is here to stay and makes it to market

      but i have my doubts , OPEC has very deep pockets
      and the oilfields at Falklands Islands has estimated to have 10 times the oil reserves of Saudi Arabia , and the drilling has already begun
      ,i hope it is not to late.

      centrifugal energy , 650 w electric motor produces
      40000 Btu’s at 12000 rpm ,20000 g’s ,2 inch pulley
      on the rotor , 7 inch on the motor with a flat rubber belt running with out vibration and little noise , with heat exchange coil for water ,I will not file for any patents , but i will be sharing my technology in the future on the internet.

      this , what i am presenting is off topic of course
      and frankly i don’t care since i am just interested in helping the masses to built their
      own devices ,the sky is the limit ,I am just humbly presenting a few options, to whoever may
      read this , to make them think for themselves

      we are created beings ,able to create our own
      reality JV

      • Gregoryyc

        JV. Are you talking about that same device that fella invented back few years. Is it cavity heating ? High speed rotation and cavities along the outer surface of a rotor drum breaks up the water molecules and causes multiple times ( at the time I think it was at least little over 100%) extra heat energy to develope for free. Last I heard about was they were installing in fire departments and some commercial/industrial places etc.. And then it went quiet afterwards.

        • jacob

          well, i think you mean someone by the name Griggs ,his company has a website and builds units that heat by
          water cavitation ,he is taking it low
          key , but my units are using recirculating transmission oil, about 2 gallons , any non foaming will do as long it is the right viscosity , 10 inch diameter hub,with 1mm nozzle forcing the oil
          which comes up from bottom of the hub on a 2 inch tube spinning with the hub , which tube is restricted
          to a 1 inch hole and a 1 inch stationary tube direct the oil from the enclosure under pressure from the sump at 12ooo rpm the oil builds up a pressure of 4000 to 5000 psi and nozzles are turned in
          opposite direction of rotation ,providing the driving force partially to reduce the energy to
          drive it.
          the rotor was tested at 20000 and 21000 rpm and producing 60000 g’s
          g-force
          and would give a guessed cop of 162 times the energy input ,if enough oil would be moving through the hub but did not happen under the the current design
          as centrifugal force at triple the speed gives 9 times the pressure or g-force
          12000 rpm gives me a respectable cop of 18
          I heart of a Scientist , who worked
          with ultra centrifuges,who built a unit which turned water into steam
          in one pass and tried to patent it,it wasn’t long after that he had some government people show up
          on his door ,and told him never to
          speak of it again.
          folks just one moving part ,how simple can it get,ok two ,a motor and a rotor
          but don’t underestimate the power of nature ,centrifugal forces increase by the square
          the laws of nature never respects newtons laws
          centrifugal forces a ficticious and have not as yet been explained
          by science
          so what are they ?
          they interact directly with the forces of this universe,space time
          it is tied in with quantum physics
          everybody knows when you drive your car twice as fast ,it takes 4 times longer to stop ,if you go 5 times as fast 25 times longer to stop

          • jacob

            according to a french researcher , centrifugal forces give cop of up to
            4000 to 5000
            but i warn anyone building anything that runs at high speed,you have to know what the tensile strenght is of the material you use ,be properly protected and shielded, if a rotor self destructs ,you are a the mercy of flying debrees
            carbon fiber is the way to go ,roughly 10 times stronger than structural steel at around 500000psi
            but if you are happy with a cop of 18 stuctural steel will do but preferably machined in one piece without welds,which could develop hairline cracks and
            then are doomed to fail eventually,
            here is enough information to start building.
            but be careful

          • http://www.aol.com Joe Papp

            This “Government agents showed up”..is the oldest piece of CRAP fielded by every QUACK for the last 100 years. Pure B.S. and should be treated that way.

            Joe

  • Roger Bird

    More very hope inspiring hot air.

  • ThisNThat

    Go read Rossi’s patent to understand how Dekfalion– should they have anything at all, can walk right through it.

    Rossi’s patent, unfortunately, is full of work-arounds. It’s not written by a shrewd patent attorney.

    All Dekfalion needs is freedom to operate. Rossi’s main patent (at least those publicly available) is not written in a manner that precludes work-arounds. All Dekfalion needs to do to stop a judge from immediately shutting them down with some equivalent of summary judgment is give reasonable doubt that they have used a different approach. Then it’s up to a court case and that can take years to litigate.

    Patents are tricky things– you have to be both specific AND broad. Specific enough for someone skilled in the art to copy, but broad enough to limit obvious workarounds.

    • daniel maris

      It sounds from all we know of LENR that you can easily tweak the process here or there to be able to claim you have a novel approach. At least three patents have been issued in the US for v. similar processes.

    • Stephen

      I am not surprised…

      I mean, you put your hands one the most impressive technological breakthrough of, let’s say, the past 10 thousand years – that’s since before the egyptians… it’s a pretty long time span :) – and what do you do?

      #1. Perform controversial demonstrations so that people know, but mostly don’t believe you… but they keep on discussing about it. In short: mount a HUGE world-scale gossip on the thing… oh yes, this what you normally hope to obtain when you have something hot and promising in your hands, sure…;

      #2. Not satisfied of the mess of point #1, promise a product in a hurry and mess up this plan in every possible way… put our rumours about collabortions with big companies, then retract, contact NASA, NI, everybody… but then nothing ever happens and you build a secret factory in a secret location and you have secret customers too!

      #3. Submit an ill-defined patent (as we apparently now learn, with zero surprise)… just in case, to make sure that somebody will be able to steal you the above mentioned most important breakthrough etc etc

      #4. Mess up so much that in 1y you end up having a competitor which most probably copied your technology… after people tried to make this thing work for over 20 years. Yeah.. disappointing, but this things happens, finally that was just the most important tech breakthrough of the past 10kyears!

      People, this story is simply hilarious :)

      So my question is: if you have something in your hands that could make you… in order… (a) the savior of humanity; (b) the richest person on the planet… the Rockfeller of the 21st century… how the heck can you end up doing what AR has done so far?!?!

      Ideas:
      * you are crazy
      * it’s all fake
      * both
      * … any further suggestion? I have run out of options…

      • Stephen

        and focus on this… this technology would be a huge twin breakthrough: you get virtually free energy; you realize the alchemist dream.

        People would surely KILL, just for one of these two :)

        but no, let’s give out the technology to Defkalion… it’s more fun like that…

        • edog

          Totally agree with you Stephen.
          If has has discovered something akin to discovering fire and totally screwing everything up… the technology should not be in his hands… I dont think assassination is the right way to go about it.. but I do think the gods would not think too harshly upon someone who stole it and gave it to the planet… he would become more famous and popular than good old Robin Hood..

          • georgehants

            A bit like P&F’s discovery, handed to science on a plate and 23 years later we are still waiting.
            Don’t blame Rossi or Defkalion who are commercial enterprises and besides moral issues in a capitalist World owe nobody anything.
            But science is incompetent, criminal and fraudulent in the cover-up of clear evidence.

      • David

        Rossi had the Idea but doesn’t have the resources to make it work. therefore he putzes around pretending to be on the brink until said competitor launches a working product. Rossi then sues for infringement and SETTLES for a cut of the pie, credit and pride. He gets rich and famous and never actually has to produce anything himself.

      • jacob

        Rossi ,Defkalion, in fact everbody who can
        to built these E-cats ,should be building and selling them ,put the srews to those that
        control energy and us the consumers,who are
        forced to buy energy ,I predict many manufactures selling these things for cash the faster we can be independent to produce our own energy , the better we are off , so let us start a revolution and demand E-cat now ,competition will be
        a good thing ,it keeps the price down and
        don’t worry Rossi will not starve ,this technology is free energy and it belongs to every single person on this planet.
        rockefella kiss my ### XOXO :)

        • Rockyspoon

          Spoken like a true communist.

  • sapain

    for around $765 u can pick up a wind mill at wallmart.
    -600watt unit.
    -power curve is pretty good.
    -600w in 30mph wind, 300w in 19 mph wind.
    -electronic speed controller.
    -brushless generator.

    prices running for 600w units is round this price. 6yrs ago i paid $1200. the chinese r helping to drive the cost down.

  • GreenWin

    CERN shaken by Japanese LENR LEARN progress:

    “The folks at Mitsubishi are looking far beyond palladium, platinum and nickel. That begs the question – “What is it they already know?” They seem to have an answer that stimulates a far-reaching implication – there may well be Low Energy Nuclear Transmutations or “LENT” across a much larger part of the element table that any of us have been thinking so far.”

    http://newenergyandfuel.com/

    • Sparks

      I may just give up Rossi for LENT.

    • tom h

      what is LENT

      • NH

        Japanese for Nipton migration.

        • tom h

          lol which is?

    • sapain

      lent is actually a by product of lenr. any fusion reaction will release energy and the reaction creates a new atom, hence lent. matter conversion.

    • sapain

      good to c more article poping up. really shows the intensity of the work towards lenr and other energy systems.

      • daniel maris

        The needle is moving back from scepticism towards confirmation again. The sceptics had their moment in the sun…

    • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

      Today in Los Angeles Times an article about how Mitsubishi quality control dropped the ball on a nuclear plant overhaul project in California. Big stain. It’s going to cost billions now to fix.

  • Stephen

    This is not very serious…

    Maybe I was at the tests too and saw unbelievable things: oh, so unbelievable, I am sure you cannot even imagine. But sorry, unfortunetaly I cannot tell you more than this: enjoy the wait!

    Com’on…

    • Ged

      Wish we had some sort of corroborating evidence. The usual story, eh?

  • Paul

    Lets just wait a month or two and see what happens. The whole field is jumble of opinions but as more and more of mainstream science comes on board – think of MIT, CERN and NASA just in the last six months (the MIT cf cell is supposedly still working and it was demoed in Jan), then Rossi and Defkalion to be the real deal looks more and more likely. After all, someone has to be first, why not these guys who have been at the engineering side longer than almost anyone esle?

    • daniel maris

      Well the fact that Piantelli is near enough accusing Focardi of intellectual theft and passing info to Rossi, does make it much more likely that Rossi has something. Likewise with Defkalion calling out Rossi.

      I agree that a policy of wait and see is the wise one.

  • From Finland

    Hi guys!

    I just wonder about that steam producing? How to add water to 350C unit without explosion? With an injector i assume. But then.. The leftover steam plus water .. After it have warmed the house boiler.. Where is that primary water put then? Is it safe at all to build a closed primary circuit in home condotions? In any fail of cooling or pump stop even (assuming 350C in any mass ofthe mass of unit) you will have a catastrophy in your hands. Just like a small Fukujima?

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      The likely configuration would be a closed loop. The steam comes out, goes through a heat exchanger, turns back into liquid, and gets heated again. This is the basic cycle going on in your refrigerator, except with refrigerant instead of water. ‘Works pretty good, I haven’t had to add refrigerant for years.

    • sapain

      no, fukujima was a fission reactor, lenr is fusion. water(flowing) will continously surround the fusion cell to extract heat. lenr cell has a small opperating volume.
      home systems have pressure relief values, so if a situatation does happen, the pressure value will pop. the units will have a safty shut down, with out this they won`t b commercialized.
      and by chance, if the system goes into melt down, the water under home pressure feeding the system will continously flood the unit.

  • AnonymousObserver

    I confirm the info of this anonymous report, i know people that has been there many times to defkalion offices and to the R&D facility, i can say for sure that a big USA gov.agency (i know the name but i will not reveal it)went there at least 2 times for a 4-5 hours test of the reactor (last time the first days of march 2012 and previously in january), they were impressed and surprised for the amount of information on how it works revealed to them, i’ve saw a printed copy of the report of the test but i can’t say more for obvious reasons. I think that during the second part of this year defkalion will finally have a 100% working and stable reactor and big announcements will hit the media.

    • John

      So you’re saying that someone (but you won’t say who) went somewhere (which you don’t say where) and did some things (but you don’t say what) and made a report (which you won’t say what it read).

      I’m not sure whether you’re trolling, or not. But if you are trolling, I’m not sure if you’re on the believer team or the skeptics team.

    • jack

      Hmm… dunno. I think I’ll wait until AnonymousObserver2 has confirmed your anonymous confirmation of this anonymous report anonymously.

      • Pachu

        lmao

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Zedshort

      In these time, an anonymous reporter is not an anomaly. I only hope he is covering his tracks with an anonymizer so that anon he will not lose his job.

    • Filip

      anyone can say anything anytime, so if you don’t have something solid, you better stay silent, someone who is serious would. Therefore(I think) you are not trustworthy. I am sorry if I am wrong but I think anyone reliable would think the same.
      It makes the debat more difficult as it is already.

    • enovox

      Thank you very much for that Info AnonObs.

      I think we will have some more of that type of info until July as more and more people are getting in touch with Defkalion for testing, producing etc.

      So far it is consistent with the report of Sterling Allen and the contact of Jed Rothwell.
      I guess if someone is spreading the untruth Defkalion would interfere.

      (all of course only if there is not a never seen before conspiracy)

    • dragon

      That is exactly the reason I asked on Defkalion’s Forum to tell us the names of the 7+ testers, so we don’t have to rely on “AnonymousObserver’s” “non”info release.
      Defkalion did not reveal any testers despite their assurances that they will do just that even before the tests. But one week before Feb 24th they started to become silent. Then, they closed the forum on March 1st when they could not contain even the believers on that Forum to ask them about who tested.
      They did not release the info and AnonymousObserver is pulling our leg. I guess some people have a pervert pleasure in “building” the hopes of others, when they do not have any info at all to share.

      I challenge you AnonymousObserver to either disclose name of tester or to shut up.

      • enovox

        leg pulling is better then censorship

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu/ Alain

        Defkalion made a mistake when promising testers name and protocol before the test.

        serious, testers will ask to be quiet (they are not organized like Mickael Jackson to manage fans).
        Second is that testers from conservatives big organization will be afraid to divulge positive results on a so controversial domain(I even think that CERN conference is a planned action to make LENR less heretic). So clearly they will refuse to communicate before double checking, cross-checking, strong coordination and (when all is mega-rock-solid) political green-light (please don’t fire us, it is serious, yes… sure … please, not fired boss, not like SPAWAR, MIT, NASA…).

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Gents, the boy’s tryin’ to make a point. His point has some validity. I think, however, that he’s trying to make a much bigger point than is merited.

    • Lu

      In what ways is the reactor not 100% working and stable?

    • PersonFromPorlock

      Shakespeare Does Defkalion!

      …But that I am forbid
      …I could a tale unfold whose lightest word
      Would harrow up thy soul, freeze thy young blood,
      Make thy two eyes, like stars, start from their spheres,
      Thy knotted and combined locks to part
      And each particular hair to stand on end,
      Like quills upon the fretful porpentine:
      But this eternal blazon must not be
      To ears of flesh and blood.

      :p

      • roseland67

        Surely, we do thank them for their many tender cares of the person of mankind.

        But hold, methinkst they taketh to much liberty with the truth, it has been their policy to play the conterfeit.

        • ricky

          Beautiful

  • dsm

    I saw this report and immediately wondered about this comment

    “I was told that they were trying to actually see what happens in their device with some glass with a melting point of 1500degc. They saw it light up like the sun and then it melted the glass. ”

    How did they get to look inside the steel reactor to watch this ? – has me beat.

    Did they build a transparent reactor ? – from what ?.

    These reactors are sealed for very good reason. So that comment had me feeling the author may be overly enthusiastic.

    DSM

    • Lu

      Maybe they built the reactor casing in glass and watched from afar? That’s what it sounds like. Good idea!

      The author Woomera certainly is gushing about Defkalion and at the same time quite negative about Rossi.

      I wonder if they are going to actually start to sell Hyperions in July or just start building the factory which builds them.

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        it is whay is written. they mput a windows of glass, and look through… until it melt.

    • daniel maris

      http://www.thomasnet.com/products/furnace-viewing-systems-95912598-1.html

      Furnace viewing seems a well established technology.

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  • sparks

    Oh the rich irony of this statement regarding Rossi (from today’s posting):

    “For a long time Rossi seems to have been acting under the assumption that Defkalion’s claims to have working devices were simply bluff and talk…”

    Sounds like one of those “patho-skeptics” talking (as they are called by some posters on this site). Whatever side of the argument you are on, you have to agree it is funny that Rossi would have been taking such a position!

    The Chris Martenson website is one of the better, and more civil, economic blogs on the internet. If Martenson himself starts to talk about the Defkalion claims, that will be a good sign. But what we really need is for successful LENR experiments to go “viral,” that is, successfully replicated AND STABILIZED in numerous academic and government labs. Then we will know change is coming sooner rather than later.

    BUT, you have to wonder about the safety of remote monitoring to keep the LENR safe. From Woomera: “Defkalion will constantly monitor the LENRs, even in your house to ensure their safety.” WHAT??!!! What about communication link outages. No matter what you use (internet, microwave link, HF transceiver, VHF/UHF repeaters, …) communication links periodically go down, or get congested, to the point of an outage. Even broadband cable internet is not 100% reliable. In a earthquake or even a power outage, everything goes down — even telephone landlines due to extreme call demand. So coming up with a reliable, always-on, safety monitor will be difficult and most likely expensive, especially to pass muster with regulating agencies (rightfully so).

    • sapain

      if a disgrunted worker with access plants a virus, hmmm.

    • Ged

      Nevermind issues like invasion of privacy. If you buy it, it’s your device, no one should be sitting there monitoring it. Especially when the worst it can do is just melt down the nickle core.

      Another thing about the Woomera story that is suspicious is the 1200 degree melting point glass melting in the reaction, when nickle powder only had a melting point around 700 C or something like that. The temperature cannot be that high.

      On the other hand, my own experience with pyrex (heat resistant glass) is that it breaks down very easily when a small area of it is exposed to pockets of intense heat even well below its melting point. But whatever, it smells fishy to me.

    • Andrea Di Luccio

      Defkalion stated a few months ago that remote control is not provided for emergency but just for monitoring working parameters to keep them optimal and update controller firmware according to data evidence.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    “Important, if true.”

  • Robert Mockan

    The Woomara comments seem credible. It has been over 10 years since LENR nuclear fuel called pycnodeuterium was developed using palladium and heavy hydrogen. The operating characteristics of the nickel and light hydrogen fuel thus far have been identical to those disclosed in articles such as this one, from 2003.
    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ArataYdevelopmena.pdf
    “Development of Compact Nuclear Fusion Reactor
    Using Solid Pycnodeuterium as Nuclear Fuel”.
    If you scroll down the pdf to figure 5 you can see the reactor designs being considered back then.
    DGT would not be using laser excitation, but turning their reactor on and off with a switch is consistent with EM stimulation of a gas loaded fuel that would result in an instantaneous thermal overload that would briefly raise it to incandescent temperature before the fuel structural integrity is destroyed. Scientists involved with advanced propulsion concepts using LENR have been trying to figure out how to stabilize a LENR fuel long enough to provide rocket engine power to reach orbit. They need at least 10 minutes of full power to accelerate to orbital velocity, using hydrogen reaction mass. Nickel is not going to do it, but some alternate metal or alloy lattice structure may work. It is a certainty that hot water is feasible, and steam up to 400 degree C., for the less demanding applications. But there are many industrial applications, as well as for aerospace, that require much higher temperatures.
    As a side note a heat exchange fluid sold by Paratherm Corporation is satisfactory up to 350 C before it undergoes serious degradation (has a flash point in air about that temperature). I used to order it in manufacturing for flow soldering of mylar ribbon cable connections. It is an organic compound extracted from plants and relatively inexpensive.

    • Warthog

      At the CERN talk, Celani revealed that his own leatest experiments involving nano-nickel had yielded 1800 watts/gram of Ni, and temperatures up to 900 C.

      I think that something like the Miley/Arata elements (nickel nanoclusters in a zirconium oxide matrix) is likely to give better performance. REALLY looking forward to hear what Miley put forth at the NASA conference last Friday.

      • sapain

        1800watts/gram isn`t much energy.
        a solar cell captures 1watt/6 grams of silicon but does so every sec for an infinite time span worth of sunlight. in 1 hr the 6 grams captures and converts 3600watts and isn`t depleted.

        • jeffsmathers

          What is the total ‘energy budget’ to create the solar cell, and what is the solar energy input average (clouds, dust,night,degredation ect;)over 20 years?

  • Mike Stevens

    Defkalion is only coming out with 300K units – that’s pretty weak considering, but as they are not the original developers of the Hyperion Product line, I’m sure they are still in a early development phase, they will wait for Rossi to come out with his so they can open one up again.

    • AusiGuys

      Your probably right, Defkalion will wait for Rossi to sell his units then they can open one up and see what they were missing, we will hear lots of excuses from Defkalion – there will be NO JULY grand opening ! TO BE SURE.

      • Partyyy

        jap, jap, jap.. how do you know that?

        • AusiGuys

          Defkalion has 27 scientists – one is the cook another a Gardner another a pipe fitter, then there was the electrician come to find out they were all scientist working on LENR )

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  • Roger Bird

    If Rossi tries to stop a working Defkalion unit, then he can kiss my ass. If anything, he should work out a deal where he gets some of the profits. That would be fair. If he stops the Defkalion and can’t come up with a competitive product, he can kiss my ass. It is not Defkalion’s fault or the world’s fault that Rossi is impossible to work with.

    I think that a smart and wise judge would order Rossi and Defkalion to work together or ELSE.

    • Lu

      I can see both Rossi and Defkalion tying each other up in court, never selling a single LENR device. In the meantime investors in factories, agencies, and distributorships will be left hanging while they wait for resolution while Rossi and Defkalion spend the money on “legal fees”. Just throwing this possibility out there.

    • dsm

      Why would Rossi deserve anything ? – he has no international patents. He never gave Defkalion any technology (why they busted up).

      The only patent Rossi holds was one he slipped in in Apr 2008, 3 or so months before Italy changed its law such that all patent applications require a search for prior art.

      Piantelli holds such prior art and thus today Rossi’s patent app would be rejected. This in fact is what happened when Rossi filed in Dec 2008 then again in 2009 for his patent but all 15 claims were rejected because of prior art and errors. (Twice rejected that is).

      DSM

  • Lu

    A folloup post from Woomera which I find entirely credible:

    G’Day firefly,

    Defkalion told me when Mr. Rossi had the 1mw plant going, at one point, everyone ran out because it got unstable. He’s too worried about confidentiality and is a one-man-band. He keeps things too close. Defkalion couldn’t work with him because of it. Rossi needs some technical help, which would require letting his invention out-of-the-bag to a precious few scientists. He has REAL trouble shutting it down. Defkalion even has something like a fire extinguisher attached to ‘poison’ the reactants to kill it. They can just shut it down normally with a flick of the switch. Defkalion will constantly monitor the LENRs, even in your house to ensure their safety. Rossi has a LONG way to go.

    Regards,

    Woomera

    • Lu

      On the other hand, this could just be FUD from Defkalion….

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        I don’t fear DGT doing that… no professiona will trust that message…

        however the hypothesis that Woomera is vortex-l Aussie Guy is possible.
        And if AG is a serial con man, a mythomaniac, or so it could be logical for him to say what we expect, just to look cool…

        • Pachu

          I think it is, he refer the city of Woomera several times in posts as AussieGuy. Why he dont just call himself maryyugo or something silly like that.

  • Lu

    Good post with all proper cautions attached.

    It’s interesting that Defkalion has given up on the US and that Rossi is manufacturing and selling in the US, no doubt his biggest market (my guess).

    Defkalion seems to to be using other people to spread news, like first sale in July 2012. Now if/when it doesn’t pan out, Defkalion cannot be blamed. Too bad they have no credibility as it is and it doesn’t matter where the rumor originates.

    Show me the LENR!

  • sapain

    i wonder how a lenr cell will function in motion. with vibrations, accelleration, deaccelleration, centrifugal etc., or will it b just a stationary unit.
    glass melting at 1700c, good way to manufacture silicon and make solar cells and reduce manufacturing costs. nasa will b testing with the high temp ceramics next.

    • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

      I am sure there will be a thousand ways or more people try to improve on LENR during the next few centuries. Perhaps that is one.

      • sapain

        so it looks like induction and on board storage for transportation is going to be the focus for transportation.

        i was reading an interesting article awhile back. bouyancy aircraft using helium to create a bouyance force for glide and lift flight. they call it the anti gravity plane.
        the same can be applied to water transport.

        energy companies sure have a choke hold on humanity and it`s thought processes.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    It is nice to hope.

    “Mining companies have in the past announced they hit the mother load. Then investors swarm in and buy shares. Then the company collapses and the CEO retires to a beach in Brazil.”

    Just a thought….

    I would like to remind people.

    -Nobody has ever claimed to have seen a Defkalion Product. Ever, ever.

    -Defkalion openly lied saying they were testing thousands of units, and months later said they had only a few they were testing. This lie was addressed on their forums which are still open for reading if not commenting.

    it was addressed here..
    http://defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=635

    -Let us also remember that nobody has ever ever seen a picture of a Defkalion product. Some might argue that the possibly faked spec sheet had some fuzzy photos but one was a computer mock-up and the other was too fuzzy to see anything.

    I forgot Sterling Allen visited them and saw the sam green photo one, and we have a video of a lot of tin foiled stuff looking nothing like the fuzzy picture.

    -Let’s remember that they announced they were going to shock the world within 2 weeks, and then 16 days later (not 2 weeks) issued a “spec” sheet that my teenage son could’ve thought up and typed in a few hours. If he handed it into school as a science project he would have failed.

    Defkalion has been NOTHING but YAP, YAP, YAP since day one. It is nice to be hopeful, but if you are serious about being a “high priced” investor as this new blog was fishing for I’d think twice. I would at least bring a few physicists with me when testing their equipment.

    I love LENR technology and know it will replace dirty gasoline in all of our cars within a decade. I like that Andrea Rossi and Defkalion have made efforts to publicize LENR. I am very hopeful they are not a bunch of lying scoundrels. But it is only hope.

    I believe in Andrea Rossi, but Defkalion has never shown the world anything except a trumped up Spec sheet with a fuzzy photo.

    • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

      Here is defkalions quoted lie. Search in google if you wish or possibly remember.

      “At full capacity we test 1000 Hyperions a day for several hours.”

    • NH

      This second-hand report appears to be leverage to force a response from any parties involved. 4 months to release operable product is very dubious. And especially so with a “tank of ye olde hydrogen” attached. My opinion is that if what this gentleman is reporting is a Truth, there shuold have been a broader and more public announcement of intent rather than a visitor that “just popped-in” on a walkabout….

    • dsm

      Re Defkalion

      The company was formed in Dec 2010 to sell devices that used Rossi eCats as the heating core. One factory was to produce valu add heating units & the other Praxion was to produce the eCats (or the eCat cores).

      In mid 2011 Defkalion and Rossi parted company. Defkalion had no history prior to Dec 2010 and no history of Powdered Ni+H research – Piantelli held the 1st Italian patent for a LENR device filed in 1995 but he let it lapse.

      Rossi and others have developed Ni+H based LENR devices starting with that patent.

      In 3rd qtr 2011 Defkalion claim to have a better than Rossi eCat. Rossi never gave them a thing so either they copied Rossi & built one from Piantelli’s patent (the pic of it resembles an early Piantelli device). Or tehy paid Piantelli to build one for them. It is totally laughable to believe that Defkalion could produce the best LENR device in the world in 3 or sso months and without any history of LENR research prior to mid 2011.

      The real point here is if by some extraordinary means Defkalion did produce a better than the world LENR in a few months, then ANYONE can (but thus far noone else has) so there is a massive doubt hanging over just what Defkalion have.

      That doubt gets complicated when the question of who has valid patents & at this time that appears to be Piantelli. Rossi slipped his patent thru the system months prior to a law change that now requires searching for prior art so it is known that a serious challenge from Piantelli is likely to derail the only patent Rossi has (which is in Italy).

      In late 2008 & again in 2009 Rossi applied for an International patent (same as the patent filed in Italy in Apr 2008). and both times his patent app was rejected because there was prior art (Rossi could not get away with it outside Italy).

      Rossi’s whole stage show in 2011 appears to have been to bolster his attempts for credibility to get a patent through but he failed. Defkalion are in the same boat.

      In 2010 Piantelli filed a new version of his patent & that is to be published in Aug 2012. A couple of months back he filed yet another and that is to be published in 2013.

      As things stand, it looks like Piantelli holds the only useful patents on Ni+H LENR.

      DSM

      • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

        you have good point, but I react on few points.
        Defkalion is a team a engineer, and it is normal that they work faster than Rossi, who is alone and hiding all to colleagues.
        also once you know the idea of nanoparticle ast explained in scientific papers, and accepting the Larsen idea that LENR happens in many condition, with a team en engineer trying to optimize the few classic parameters (quantity of H+ ingredient through H catalyst, surface, heat, insulation to recycle heat to self sustain, heat evacuation to stabilize)

        if DGT is rational they simply break with rossi because he give them nothing and work slowly, then they read the papers, read their engineering books, papers on H catalysts, and follow the engineer methodology…
        maybe at the end a patent attorney checked that their processes did not break a patent, but it seems that the existing patents (especially rossi’s) are badly written.
        I have friends whose job is to transform a laboratory chemical processus to make few mg of a new drug, into a chemical reactor chain to produce one ton of drug.

        note that celani las experiment was more efficient that claimed defkalion, hotter also…. anyway the recepie seems different (no zirconium, higher pressure, lower temp, bigger particles)

        why is it so hard to understand that after piantell/celani/focardi work, the job of DGT and Rossi is pure engineer job.
        It’s my job, and we are trained for that kind of problem…
        Gaseous Ni+H LENR seems more easy than to launch a rocket.

  • Methusela

    Humour from Rossi:

    Giorgio
    March 25th, 2012 at 6:49 AM
    Dear Andrea Rossi,
    Here below you will find a link to english translation of italian parliament question on LENR ad ecat. This parliament question is based on a document that i have prepared for D. Scilipoti. I work at University of Palermo (Industrial Engineering Dept.)
    I hope this will help.
    Warm Regards

    Giorgio

    http://www.lenrforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102

    Andrea Rossi
    March 25th, 2012 at 8:11 AM
    Dear Giorgio:
    Thank you. My DNA is boiling …
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

  • sven

    It´s easy to claim anything really. What bothers me is that if you look through the CERN presentation the other day, it seems that the real science community that has been working on the technology for 23 years now, is relatively far from getting close to what both Rossi and Defkalion are claiming to be commercial ready. Defkalion supposedly got the secret ingredient from a simple hidden spectral analysis of Rossi’s ecat, so it must be a simple element or two that is the catalyst. So, the periodic table is final, why on earth are the expert scientist, including Toyota and Mitsubishi with all their money to do a systematic search still this far away? It sounds almost unrealistic that Defkalion are where they claim after less than 12 months of actual research.

    • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

      the power density claimes by celani seems similar to the one claimed by defkalion.
      they produce 5kW for 10g in one of the 9 reactors.

    • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

      That would make sense though. If Andrea Rossi got ahead of others using a newer Ni-H reaction he had time to polish it some before announcing it to the world over a year ago.

      Defkalion claimed to have the results of a spectral analyses that borderlines on theft of intellectual property. Well it is.

      Many Labs like Toyota and Mitsubishi might have been doubtful about the claims of Andrea Rossi at first, and possibly still. There are many world class organizations filled with “cold fusion pathoskeptics”, that are still in denial.

      When the wright brothers took flight it took science another 4 years to agree it was possible.

      I do not think LENR is FAR from commercialization. It is very near on most fronts, as control is being learned. If it appears LENR is “FAR” from commercialization it is because the CERN presentation was also an appeal for funding LENR.

  • Brad Arnold

    The only important consideration is that a (anyone, anywhere) successfully commercialize a LENR Ni-H reactor. Once that paradigm shift has occurred, the hard headed CEOs of major multi-national corporations will start pouring tons of money into LENR R&D. That will be the tipping point: initial successful commercialization.

  • Andrea G

    Woomera = Aussie guy?

    • Tom h

      Surely if it was ausie guy, he wouldnt be so stupid to use a aussie accent. I mean if i was aussie guy pretending to be a different person i certainly wouldnt start my posts with g,day.

      • Tom h

        If it is aussie guy, then he sure is dumb.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        I think Woomera = Defkalion stooge pandering for investors

        • AusiGuys

          You can be absolutely certain – there will be “NO” July sales of any Defkalion product, because they will have to wait for Rossi to come out with his to get the remaining secrets that Defkalion lifted from the start, Defkalion is not ready for market.

        • dsm

          That was my impression but somone did pinpoint an Aussie energy person from Woomera (PS Woomera a disused rocket base from the 1970s/80s in the middle of nowhere out past Adelaide).

          That yarn about watching glass blow up was really odd. You can’t do that sort of thing in a sealed reactor unless it was made of diamonds or some new see thru material.

          Reminds me of how we used to blow up oranges in industrial microwaves when they were a new novelty :)

          DSM

    • sapain

      could b mr. smith

      • dsm

        I can assure it ain’t :)

        Cheers DSM

  • Methusela
  • Tom Krieg

    This UL certification is going to be a real stumbling block for the ECAT. I wonder if they even started their review and it is sitting in some big long queue.

    Anybody found out where the ECAT is in the UL process?

    • dragon

      Rossi and defkalion are not the only ones trying to get to commercial level with LENR..l

      Other player here:

      http://coldfusionnow.org/?p=15231

      • dragon

        More about Mr. Robert E. Godes Cold Fusion path in this interview, here:

        http://coldfusionnow.org/?p=5161

        • Steve Ridder

          Mr Godes has a LENR product but he does not know how to Present his work, his website is a mess and he can not speak the lingo investors and people want to hear from him to explain what he has, no one knows – only Mr Godes knows what he has locked in his lab.

          • Jim Rodes

            right – Robert Godes has a cold fusion device but no one has ever laid eyes on it that we know of, he writes about it on his website but no video – no demonstrations – no communication – no Demos – no one knows what he has to offer? just lots of chatter and more chatter that no one knows what is being said, another lost cause.

    • Brad Jones

      - YES – Rossi has said that the certifications are going nicely in the USA, and that he will be approved soon and that is a priority for Rossi, then the factory which is already being assembled as we speak.

    • hydroman

      Unlike the UL Mark, the CE

      Marking:

      Is not a safety
      certification mark
      Is generally based on

      self-declaration rather than

      third-party certification
      Does not demonstrate

      compliance to North American

      safety standards or

      installation codes

      Probably never!

  • tom h

    i was just about to post this lol beat me to it.