Dr. George Miley to Present on LENR at March 23 Conference — Will Awareness of New Energy Source Spread?

There’s nothing that focuses the mind of the average person on the topic of energy more than seeing one’s daily expenditures on energy spike to ever higher levels. Many people don’t pay attention to commodity markets, except when it comes to gasoline and diesel prices, since this is a commodity whose price is constantly on display the world over, and filling up the car with record high fuel prices in some places can be an experience that focuses the mind on energy problem. The cost of gasoline is turning out to become a major issue in this year’s US presidential race, and it may be that the election will be determined by candidates’ position on energy.

We hear a lot in the news these days about wind, solar, natural gas and nuclear power as being alternatives to oil — but not too much about LENR. It rarely comes up in the conversation about energy solutions. But if there were some major breaking news that put LENR in a positive light — and made it seem to be a viable energy source (even if that were to be in the future) would there be any real effect on world markets.

We have concentrated on this site on news surrounding Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat technology, but there are others working in the LENR field who may carry more influence with certain audiences, especially in academia — where there is a tendencies to distrust information coming from commercial entities working in secret. One player in this LENR field is Dr. George Miley, affiliate professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, who is scheduled to give a presentation titled ““A Game-Changing Power Source Based on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENRs)” on March 23 at the Emerging Technologies for Space conference in The Woodlands, Texas.

Miley has already published an abstract of his presentation, the introduction to which reads:

“Excess heat generation from our gas-loading LENR power cell (Figure 1) has been verified, confirming nuclear reactions provide output energy. While there are
similarities between ours and the Rossi E-Cat gasloaded kW-MW LENR cells that have attracted international attention, there are important differences in
nanoparticle composition and cell construction. Our experiment has established a remarkable proof-of-principle power unit at ca. 350W/kg under room temperature when using deuterium (D2) gas (H2 can also be employed) with Pd rich nanoparticles, producing 1479J heat, well above the maximum exothermal energy (690J) possible from all conceivable chemical reactions.

So we have someone working in the academic field who, in the academic tradition (unlike Rossi), is subjecting his research to outside scrutiny, stating that a low energy nuclear reaction can be achieved that can produce useful power. Miley has a goal is to use his technology in a thermoelectric cell that powers NASA space probes as an early application. Below is a video of George Miley discussing his technology at the recent 2011 World Green Energy Symposium held in October 2011 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. (Miley starts speaking at around 5:00)

Whether a presentation by a rather unknown professor at a conference about space would spark interest in LENR as a viable energy field remains to be seen — but it could prove to be part of a cumulative effect that indicates that there is another alternative source of energy available that can over time become a major player in the energy markets of the world.

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  • Sandy

    Miley mentioned “colony development” in the abstract of his paper. He apparently believes that his LENR technology could lead to the establishment of permanent human communities beyond Earth; i.e., extraterrestrial settlements.

  • Peter Hunt

    Dr. Miley is no late comer to this phenomenon. He has been working on it for years . Indeed he was with Patterson in Florida back in the 90’s.

    And for what it’s worth in round number 350 watts per kg is roughly 25 shaft electric hp per 100 lbs. Cheaper and lighter than the current engines in hybrid cars with minimal fuel costs.

    Now the cost of the system is a real question but there seem to be few blockade to engineering a lass expensive system for general application.

    This is big news from a reliable source. Thank you Dr. Miley.

  • skeptic

    Strange paper, did you read it?

    The first thing that strikes me is that 50% of the paper is about the possible application in case the thing works.
    Of the half describing his experiment, there is 50% about the setup and only a few lines are dedicated to the result: a very modest temperature buildup of 20C to 60C to 140C.

    Lets focus on what is NOT in this paper:

    Miley claims to use Deuterium but H2 also works. So why use deuterium at all? It’s not like it’s easier to come by. Also he measures heat output and claims that it is more than can be explained by chemistry. Really? He is using pressured gas which also causes temperature changes. The measured energy is modest at best, leaving much margin for error.

    The whole paper is about a bit (1439J is not a lot – it’s 24 seconds of a standard lightbulb) of heat he claims he cannot explain.
    And he even admits that one of his thermocouples is not fixed right. Pretty sloppy, since the measurement of temperature is really the ONLY thing he has to report.

    What is missing:
    – No measurement of radioactivity (gamma, neutrons) would irrifutably prove nuclear reactions. He’s in a lab. He can get deuterium and nano-particles. So, why no geiger counter?
    – No mention of output materials – transmutation of elements would be irrifutable proof of nuclear reactions.
    – No attempt of an explanation of a reaction mechanism.

    Miley has no idea what’s going on, nor does he even try to find an explanation.
    Instead, he can’t wait to jump to a possible use of his new technology: A replacement of the RadioThermic Generator.
    There is even a room for a drawing of an RTG, but no scematic of his experiment.

    Without proof of nuclear reactions, radioactivity, transmutation, this really is no more than an anomalous heat claim – and not a very big one.

    • Peter Hunt

      Why Deuterium rather than Hydrogen?

      First leakage of these gasses is always a problem or perhaps you have never worked with Hydrogen as a working pressurized fluid. Deuterium leaks at a slower rate than elemental hydrogen.

      As to radioactivity? what do you know of the measurements? or transitory states. Not very much I suspect.

  • http://Ecatnews.net Alexandr

    Hopefully Dr.Miley will provide some information that will help move LENR – new physics A.Rossi and theory from book “Vihrony”, 2011, Moscow, Shadrin A.A. Do you send this book in your e-mail?
    Dr. Shadrin

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  • Emc2

    Big conference rom? Add some real media attention and the scene is set to kill LENR and CF once and for all in the scientific community?

    Spanish inquisition

    • sapain

      didn`t take long to kill ftl.

    • http://Ecatnews.net Alexandr

      What do you say on printed in Springer LENR books “Controlled Nucleosynthesis”, 2007, S.Adamenko and others, 780 p,and in Trovant “Vihrony”, 2011, Moscow, Shadrin A.A. 232p.
      Dr. Shadrin.

  • Robert Mockan

    An important comment in the abstract of the presentation is that “..the nano-particles are manufactured by STUDENTS in the materials research lab..”.

    In other words, the procedure is NOT rocket science, and should be possible to adapt it for ANY PERSON to manufacture the nuclear active fuel.

    • Robert Mockan

      Note also that although the thermal power gain is ..only.. 350 watts/kg (about 1/3 watt per gram compared to the E-Cat 100 watt per gram) the Miley fuel does not require any special catalyst. We should probably view that power gain as typical of what any person could make. It should go up from there, also with an increase in temperature.

    • Robert Mockan

      It might interest people that Dr. Leslie C. Case built a cold fusion reactor and demonstrated it in 1998. He used off the shelf catalyst G-75E from United Catalysts, Inc. That is 0.5% palladium nano-particles dispersed on activated carbon. The G-75 series were developed and marketed in…1983. This kind of catalyst can rather easily be made…even by high school students for a science fair project. The sample I bought for testing in the mid 90s looks like the activated carbon granules you see in aquarium water filters.

      • Robert Mockan

        Although Dr. Case bought his catalyst ready made from United Catalysts Inc., he tested many different kinds and brands until he found a few that showed nuclear active catalytic activity when immersed in heavy hydrogen gas. Here are some details about how these kinds of catalysts are made. Which ones work better than others would need to be determined by experiment.
        http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv3p0685

      • Omega Z

        The problem I see between Miley’s LENR & Rossi’s is that Miley’s produces a measurable amount of Nuclear activity producing Radiation & Rossi’s is much lower. Probably the difference of using PD verses NI.

        This means we can’t have it in our possession. But, Even that’s not all bad. Electrical production could be closer which would reduce outages. Utility costs could be cut in half because of lower energy costs & Infrastructure savings.

        The real advantage to being off grid with cheap energy refill cartridges would be the stress reduction if you should be between jobs & waiting for the economy to recover. Also if this took longer then 6 months, it would be cheap to buy yourself more waiting time.

        There’s big Disadvantages to being off grid. You have to allow for peek demand which few people posting seem to grasp. Even if the energy was free, it’s not cheap if it costs half a million to build a system to provide that free energy. Might as well invest that money & let the returns pay your utilities. You’d probably come out way ahead.

        Another thing about Miley’s approach. It isn’t meant for consumer ownership. His primary target is for NASA’s Space program. Radiation is of less concern. It’s also intended for TE conversion. Not cheap or economical for consumers, but Cheaper & more long term dependable then NASA’s present setup for Satellites & Space Probes. At least that’s their hope.

        NASA has deep pockets. Hmmm. Money. Sorry people. Money is what makes the world go round.

        Money isn’t Bad. People’s representations & thoughts about money are bad. It’s been perverted.
        Money is/was intended as a universal way to trade between ourselves. It was meant to represent each persons output. Has nothing to do with oil or gold or whatever.

        It’s much easier to transfer credits then to spend days or weeks trying to find someone to barter goods & services that fit your needs.

        People are so far removed from moneys original intent that they’ve lost their sense of value.
        Example: A person who wouldn’t bat an eye to paying $1500 for a laptop would bulk at that deal if he were to have to spend 3 weeks in 100` weather digging a ditch.

        • Robert Mockan

          The space application that Miley intends is to replace polonium 210 for TE generators. If the TE have 10% conversion Miley needs 100
          thermal watts from his reactor for every 10 electrical watt generated. If he accomplishes that in self sustaining mode that would be
          useful for other applications. There are a number of other heat engines that are more than 10% efficient, but not suitable for
          space applications because they might be heavier, or less reliable, than TE modules.
          I would not think radiation is a show stopper for personal use. Especially after people eventually eliminate most of the burden that is
          government, and replace the corrupted monetary system.

        • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

          LENR cannot be measured in Gamma Ray Radiation as LENR is associated with low Gamma emmissions.

          This was often thought to mean there was no measurable radiation, but what we now know is happening is Heavy Electrons (not really heavy but act slower)absorb the Gamma Rays and convert them into Harmless infra red. This is awesome, but misleading.

          Dr Miley even claims his device can absorb some background radiation.

  • David

    Communicate lenr in your language. http://www.lenrforum.eu

  • georgehants
    • daniel maris

      Do questions in the Italian Parliament ever get answered?

      • ora600

        never

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  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    An unknown player from a lesser known university who subjects his research to outside scrutiny is a benefit to the field of LENR/Cold Fusion.

    In contrast wiseguys like Rossi and Joe Zawodny do more harm than good.

    Institutions like CERN and MIT which want to have one foot in and one foot out and walk a fine line between backing the technology and backing out only muddy the waters and add to the confusion.

    • Tom

      I doubt any harm will come of Rossi trying to release an LENR product to the public as soon as possible. Rossi might be the first to make anything useful come out of the cold fusion field. Whether people believe him or not makes no difference to the outcome. But it’s certainly sparked a lot of interest in the field, which can’t be a bad thing.

      As for CERN and MIT, I totally understand where they’re coming from. Would you stake professional credibility on something you weren’t sure was real?

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        Rossi is jerking everyone around. He’s dangling a lotto ticket in front of everyone and creating a sick relationship between him and everyone who lets him.

        Regarding CERN and MIT. So here you have this phenomenon and it’s kind of squirelly. How would it look if MIT said publicly: “This is above us. We don’t understand it.”

        • http://www.neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

          A wheel appears from one side to be a bit like a circle but there are irrational points at the edge of a circle our math system can’t define or understand so should we not use wheels?

        • Philip

          From a scientist perspective, MIT saying “We don’t understand this” would be perfectly appropriate.

          • http://F-Cat BrilliantsRUs

            And you believe that they want to do appropriate things? They are modern popes.

        • Tom

          I suppose if you have any trust invested in Rossi, he is jerking you around. I for one am only interested in the outcome of his actions and don’t hold him accountable for anything else. Though I’m glad there are people like Dr George Miley who are ready to talk more openly about LENR.

          • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

            The guy who invented the integrated circuit at Intel was a C average engineer at a second rate university. There is too much name dropping in the field of LENR/Cold Fusion. Where’s the beef? If this guy can show at least some progress in an open forum he’s a hero and Rossi et al are a bunch of losers.

          • Tom

            You’re right, there is too much name dropping. Though I see no heroes and no villains in the field, only scientific explorers. I’ll back any and all of them in order to find the real champion, free energy.

    • MWProf

      While I agree this professor is lesser known right now. I must take issue with UI being lesser known. In the scientific community this is just not so. We who are scientists know their have been over 20 Noble prize winners from this “lesser known University” in the midwest. Try Bardeen for a Noble prize winner and Andreesen for an undergrad from this university who change the world.

      • Robert Mockan

        LOL! Miley is not “lessor known” in the scientific community. Who is he?

        Professor Miley is internationally recognized for his innovative work on advanced fuel ICF target physics, and for contributions to innovative plasma devices, including the first direct electron-beam-pumped laser, and first visible nuclear-pumped laser, a flowing plasma focus, and the STAR mode IEC as a fusion neutron source for NAA. He and his students performed one of the first series of target compression experiments at the U of Rochester Laser Laboratory. Professor Miley has also made important research contributions to the field of nuclear engineering, ranging from fission reactor kinetics to direct radiation energy conversion and fusion technology. As a result of his seminal book, “ Fusion Energy Conversion” (1976), he is known as the “father” of advanced fuel fusion. His pioneering work on Nuclear Pumped Lasers opened up that field in the 1980s and gained international recognition.
        Professor Miley is one of the most prolific researchers in the University of Illinois College of Engineering. Among his published works have been six books, over 230 articles in journals, and another 550 articles in conference proceedings. As a Director of NPRE’s Fusion Studies Laboratory, Professor Miley’s interests have ranged from fusion science and technology to direct radiation energy conversion. He is considered a pioneer in nuclear-pumped laser research and is widely recognized for innovative research in fusion. Professor Miley holds 19 patents.
        Professor Miley is the author of over 190-refereed technical papers and is the editor or co-editor of a dozen books and proceedings. He is a Guggenheim Fellow, Fellow of four professional societies (ANS, IEEE, AAIA and APS), and holds the prestigious Preparata and Edward Teller Medals.

      • Robert Mockan

        Almost forgot to mention he also edited Fusion Technology magazine for the American Nuclear Society for more than 15 years. Why is that important to LENR? It was the ONLY mainstream scientific journal that published research about cold fusion on a regular basis until he retired from the position.

  • SH

    According to Sterling at pesn.com, the latest defkalion report came from one of the third party testers:

    “Defkalion is still in the middle of doing 3rd party testing at its facility. The tests are going very well, with huge OU measured. Reports are expected mid April, after all the 7 groups have completed their testing. — Sterling Allan, from first-hand sources.”

    http://pesn.com/2012/03/15/9602053_E-Cat_Defkalion_Weekly_March15/

    In a reply to “DaveS” question of a source in the comment section, he writes:

    “That report came from someone who was there as a third party tester”

    • NH
      • SH

        Yes, in 2003? Looks like a joke to me..

        I do not consider pesn.com or Sterling Allan to be a credible source. But i dont see why he would lie about this. He was recently in Athens paying DGT a visit, where is the gain if this is a lie?

        • Stanny Demesmaker

          Offcourse it’s not a lie, but the truth is always hard to accept for some people, give him time

          So after Defkalion and Rossi, now Allan Sterling also entered the scam, lol ? Some people have the strangest fantasies.

          • dragon

            Sterling like Krivit, is outside the Cold Fusion camp.
            They are trying to get a glimpse of what the scientists are working on in LENR, but to my knowledge, up until now, ALL scientists are major assholes that do not want to share their ideas and successes with the public.

            So much for Tesla-kind of scientist… These days, scientist is like Hollywood stars: full of themselves and superior attitude.

          • Ged

            Hey, not all of us are that way :D

            The allure of money can corrupt even the unwary scientist, regrettably.

          • http://F-Cat BrilliantsRUs

            Hollywood stars don’t deserve more respect than a McDonald’s worker. They are not justified in being full of themselves and superior to all. Scientists are. Wait and watch when we the scientists, trivialize Hollywood.

          • http://F-Cat BrilliantsRUs

            Besides, better late than never… Scientists are discovering Leykis 101 – The only way to be valued is to be jerks. Because being nice makes them doormats. We’re done with it.

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

        I too am running for President of the United States and I implore you too to throw consider doing the same. Why? For the simple reason that it focuses the mind very nicely. I’m not really serious about a run, but I have noticed that when I think about it compels me to think about what I really believe, what would I really do if given the power, how I would treat people, what talents do I actually have that I might bring to the table, to whom would I delegate authority, what would be my policies, and last but not least, am I informed enough to deal with the world in all its complexity.

        So, have fun with it and throw your hat into the fire.

      • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

        We hear of the patho-skeptic, well, this is the earmark of the patho-believer.
        Oi.

  • EduardoRG

    This presentation will be very interesting. I am looking forward to see it.

    I want to believe in Rossi, but Jesus !!! it is so hard to do it. What´s more difficult is that people that would like to believe in him are not helped by Rossi him self. Rossi don´t help people to help him by giving them clear, conclusive and definitive data. It looks that Rossi helps more the Skeptics with his words than the people that would like to believe in him.

    Right now, I would like so much the Ecat to be true and really work. But I am not a blind believer. Neither I would like to be a blind skeptic. Even when Rossi has done public test of his 1MW Ecat, I think he has not done enough to allow everybody to believe in him. I think he is crazy about the Patents and so this take him to be so wrongly close about the Ecat.

    I think at the end we all are in a situation in which we have to wait for 1) A year until the Ecat becomes available to anyone or 2) After a year, another delay, another excuse, another year and so on and so on, until Rossi drowns on his own deadlines. That would be very sad.

    I am not a Believer, I am not a Skeptic. There are enough evidence to balance to any side you want. Sadly that´s on everyone decision and not in real hard evidence and conclusive data.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

      I too am straddling the fence and it is painful. With respect to my belief, he has until the end of 2012 to produce a public demo of a ready for sale product after which I will jump on him as a fraud and admonish everyone else to adopt the same attitude.

      • joe

        Given his history and current behavior i already believe its more likely the e-cat will be like his previous products, 0 gain in efficiency when tested by people not related to him.
        But why do you care if other people think he is a fraud and why would you spend time trying to convince people that he is? what will be gained by spending time trying to convince lots of people he is real or a fraud.

        Just say your opinion if desired and let others make up theirs.

        • EduardoRG

          I think you are right. Many skeptic´s best lines are: “I have seen this before” “This guy and this guy and this other guy did the same thing and said the same thing, so this one have to be a scam too”

          Their skepticism is completely based on old situations with other people.

          People have to look at real data, real proves. Like I said before,I am not a Believer, I am not a Skeptic. There are enough evidence to balance to any side you want, but not real conclusive data.

      • alex

        Why? Even if it is all just stories. If it is his own money he is spending, why try to destroy him. Let him have hope, even if you don’t. He is fighting a battle against the world superpowers, I think he is brave and should be left alone in his conundrum. People don’t try to gang up on a losing sports team, they just root for one that is winning. So, I think all these skeptics are just awful people trying to seem better adjusted than the followers of these odd technologies.

    • John

      I’m 99% skeptic, 1% believer. I just don’t understand Rossi. Why is he acting the way he is? Is there any link between him and Defkalion? I don’t think it’s a customer scam but it may be an investor scam.

      I’ll start to believe it when people from well known universities start saying “…we’ve had this machine running 24/7 for a couple of months now…”. But will it ever happen? Your guess is as good as mine.

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

        I wonder sometimes if the people who are skeptics might be those who are “hard bitten” by a negative experience in life that left them bitter. Perhaps someone once raised a finger to the sky and declared, “Look, a flying saucer!”, and so you looked, only to realize that you were the object of a joke and with that one painful experience you, “once bitten, twice shy” declared you would never again be allowed to look a fool.

        I must say, the image of “once bitten, twice shy” conjures up the image of the monomaniacal Captain Ahab, which is in keeping with the behavior of the worst of the patho-skeptics.

        • sparks

          This patho-skeptic coinage is the most pathological thing I’ve seen on this site. Skepticism is not a pathology. Rather, unquestioning belief is. Any psychologist will attest to this. Skepticism is healthy and ensures survival in a world that relies largely on illusion and deception to gain advantage. Y’all need to man up and accept skepticism as a wise virtue. Ultimately, when a viable LENR product is someday established, the skeptics of today will be very comfortable with folding that new PROVEN data into their world view.

  • sapain

    platinium $1700/oz and palladium $650/oz at present.
    dr. miley`s units once achieved will drive the commodity price up.
    units will be expensive, but feul source will be cheap, abundant and long lasting.
    price per unit of 3kw will probably run $5-10k.

    don`t throw those catalyic coverters away.

    mayb after the cern conference, the major media networks will put out an hr long doc. dealing with the present day developments of lenr. and air it for a week.

    right now people r not imformed how the cost of solar has dropped in the last three yrs and getting lower.

  • Lu

    It’s interesting that Miley is using the term “nuclear reaction” to describe his process AND comparing it with Rossi’s reaction. The dissimilarities are not in the process but in nano-particle composition and the cell construction.

    Given that this is at least in part a nuclear reaction, how could the Florida Bureau of Radiation Control have dropped the Rossi investigation when Rossi appears to have manufactured E-Cats in Florida for the 1MW demonstration? There are things that just don’t add up here.

    • sapain

      one noticable thing from 1989, there r quite a few methods to achieve the lenr reaction and it seems that more ways r being discovered.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

      I never heard that he manufactured parts for the 1 MW reactor in Florida and it would not matter. The said he is not operating such devices in Florida and that is all the matters with respect to FBRC. What happens in other states and nations is outside the purview of the FBRC.

      • Lu

        Wrong. Do your homework before contradicting someone.

        • daniel maris

          Have you got a quote?

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

          Oh, OK, yes sir. I will be sure to behave in the future.

    • Omega Z

      Others doing LENR research have used both deuterium & Palladium & the NI powder. They all appear to work, but many have indicated they get the best results with the Nickel Hydrogen process. The nano-particle composition in Rossi’s E-cat is the Nickel & ???

      When Rossi speaks of no radiation, he’s talking in the terms of no radioactive materials involved or emitted outside the core or waste material. Mentioning radiation is a Big No No unless you want to add years to getting something certified for consumer use if at all.

      Saying a product gives off Gamma rays is looked at differently for certification. It then becomes just a matter of how much & is it well shielded. Many products give off gamma rays including most building materials & even good old mother earth & the Sun. It’s a natural process of decay. All that’s important is how much.

      As for Rossi’s U.S. factory. I would bet it consists of a mostly Empty building at this time being prepped for setup when the Robots are ready to be shipped in & setup. Everyone assumes it would have to be a hugh building.

      I believe people would be shocked at how little space will actually be required. As long as there are a couple warehouse storage facilities right close buy with storage racks, the plant itself doesn’t need to be very big. It’s primarily a robotized assembly line. Also, businesses do just in time delivery to minimize warehouse/inventory control.

      Most or all components will be shipped in ready to assemble. All that’s required is a hand full of people to keep the robots supplied & people at the end of the line to move them to storage ready to ship.

      I’ve worked around machines that are rotary tabled & can do 12 different processes simultaneously. One machine could turn out 200 pieces an hour(400K per year per shift.) of which were comparable to an E-cat core. In fact the E-cat might be simpler in design.

      This machine took up about 5`x5` space. It drilled holes, reamed, chamfered, threaded, & polished the part once placed in the mounting block. All the operator did was place the part, lock it in then take another out & gauge it for defects. Done.

      It was my job to keep them going. These machines had 6 to 8 motor drives going simultaneously with cutting tools of some type in each. This machine was accurate within .001, built in the 50’s, was all gears, cams, pneumatics, & micro switches. No computers back then & still in use today. Ironically, most of the components produced on this Machine. Sent out to be Nickel Plated.

      As for the Robots, their probably being designed & built somewhere in Europe or Asia. Those who know what their building will keep their mouth shut (NDA). Just as they would making something for Apple or whoever. Those actually building the robots (The Laborer) probably have no Idea what their building the robots for or who… They’ll be tested checked & shipped when they get the word. No Sooner. Most Robots thou using many of the same components are custom built. This takes time.

      People? Rossi stated about 12 to 18 months before production will start. People jump on the 12 months. 12 months is an Optimistic date. That means nothing holds things up. 18 months is a Hopefully no later then.

      I’ve helped setup a few plants. In fact, usually end up being in charge of certain section crews. This 12 to 18 month time frame is in line for something of this nature. And Finally, nothing can happen until certification is done.

      One Note: If I was trying to find this type of plant or documentation to setup a plant, The last thing I would be looking for is setting up to build E-cats. That would be like using password for your password.

      Hopefully if the E-cat works, I give it 90%, people will leave them alone so they can get it done. The last thing they need to be doing is hiring fifty security guards to keep people out. Imagine the hassle if you were involved with setting up & trying to get through to work or bringing equipment in thru a barrage of people. People chasing you down to question you. Possible even threatening you or your family for info. And there are people who would. 18 months would soon be the optimistic date instead of 12.

      Someone should be aware of parts shipments & figure it out. NOT!! Many of the components will be similar if not off the shelf components. You could be handling or processing materials yourself for the E-cats & never be aware. Your shipping 10K bolts or T-fittings or whatever. You’d have no clue. You’re apparently in this business. It’s business as usual. Many of the components will look no different then what is used in small on demand water heaters or a slew of other products I’m familiar with. Even a plastic or metal housing.

      I’ve installed products that have a place for a metal LOGO plate. ONE product made for multiple companies. Different stick-on name plate. I place the one the customer asked for. This is done big time in heating & cooling products.

      There won’t be a shipping order for 1 million of a certain part. There broken up by date schedules & different quantities. As for customer info, It may be nothing to you but a number or a company name not associated to what you would expect. And remember. The vast majority of people in the world aren’t even aware of Rossi or E-cats… E-cat? Is that 1 of those little furry robot pets you order on the Internet???

      And a question? Rossi has said anytime he mentions a name, that person or company gets a barrage of contacts. There was Kind of a poopha to this statement in the posting comments.

      The Question? How many people here posting & keeping up with things haven’t Googled National Instruments or Siemens or half a dozen other names mentioned. And how many like myself haven’t dug deeper into their Websites for details of what they do & produce & who their connected with. Also many send E-mails or call & try to make contact with people in these companies.

      Thousands or 10’s of thousands of hits. And only a small percentage of the people are even aware of the E-cat.

      Rossi is right when he say’s it creates a nightmare for these people. I wouldn’t like it. I’m trying to take care of business & customers & your swamping me with info seeking nuisance. Your interfering with their job.

      If Rossi delivers a Hot Water heater within the next 12 months or so with a COP6, He has delivered what he said he would. It will therefore not have been a scam.

      If it turns out it Can’t produce Electricity or run an air conditioner, you can’t claim he’s a fraud.

      He never promised these things. All he’s said is their looking into it & trying to make the E-cat capable of it. These would be add-on technologies provided by after market companies.

      One person posted somewhere that they wouldn’t by an electric generator from Siemens. Well, maybe not, but they won’t buy it from Rossi either. Rossi doesn’t do Generators. Thus he is working with Siemens.

      These things are everyone’s wish list. If your disappointed, it’s because you let your imagination get ahead of reality or read things into Rossi’s answers he didn’t actually say or misunderstood. Rossi never promised to deliver these things, only to try to make it possible. Most likely there on his wish list also.

      Hopefully Dr. Miley will provide some information that will help move things along & Provide additional confirmation of the LENR technology. The more the better & Competition is always good.

      • Lu

        If the E-Cat does indeed produce radiation at some level it’s obvious why Rossi doesn’t want authorities to investigate.

        On the other hand, the fact that it does produce radiation means it is a source of radiation. The fact that Rossi claims he shields the radiation and that radiation has never been detected outside the reactor does not mean it is not a radioactive device. It is not for Rossi to certify this nor for the investigator to go on Rossi’s word and as such he has broken the law and/or the investigator did not do his job.

        This is assuming it actually produces any radiation and that he actually built one in his factory in Miami–but this is what Rossi has long claimed. (See my comments below.) Perhaps he actually told the truth to the investigator and that it is not a radioactive device and that he never built an E-Cat in Florida which would mean he’s lied big time.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

          “the fact that it does produce radiation means it is a source of radiation.”

          A space heater will produce a spectrum of radiation centered on the infrared. That is not a problem.

          “the fact that it does produce radiation means it is a source of radiation.” No kidding? The question is does it threaten the health of the public?

          I have no doubt that now the FBRC has been alerted, they will pop in from to time to see what Rossi is up to. Your arms-akimbo attitude is obnoxious.

      • Emc2

        Omega Z, thanks for an interesting post, id say you are right in your analysis.

      • daniel maris

        I agree with so much of what you say. The absence of a huge throbbing industrial factory at this stage proves nothing.

        I would also add that just because Rossi says “a million a year” doesn’t mean we have to take that too literally. He might start with one line making 50k to 100K…wouldn’t you? – just to make sure the market is there before you commit all your investment. After say 3 months, if the machines are flying off the shelves, you start fitting out another line.

        So yes, I agree it is way too early to conclude anything from the absence of a US production facility.

        Also, I think most people, because they never go inside an industrial facility are unaware of just how automated production can be these days. They expect to see something like Ford from the 1930s but – depending on the product – you might look out over a factory and see no one…the personnel are in the control room, their heads bent over computer screens.

        I think Rossi deserves a few months’ leeway before he is a dismissed as a scammer.

      • Bernie Koppenhofer

        Great post and info, thanks

    • Lu

      Rossi’s alleged current statement:

      Currently, all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas.

      From Rossi’s Blog:

      ***
      AR August 9th, 2011: 2- Our factory in Miami is not available for visits, therefore I maintain covered the address.

      ***

      Certainly your device has that potential. I live in Florida, close to Miami. Would it be possible to visit the E-Cat factory there?

      AR June 7th, 2011: No, it is not possible.

      ***

      From PESN interview with Hank Mills and Andrea Rossi on July 14, 2011:

      H – I have with me on the other end of this connection – unfortunately we do not have video due to technical difficulties – but we do have Mr. Andrea Rossi. From I believe Andrea you are in Bologna. Is this correct?
      A – No, I am in Miami, Florida.
      H – You are in Miami! Oh my goodness. Alright!
      A- Yes, because in Miami we have a factory where we are preparing the reactors that will be the modules of the one megawatt plant that we are preparing for Defkalion in Greece, that will go into operation in October.

      And from ECAT.COM, Andrea Rossi’s official web site:

      At present, Andrea Rossi is back in Miami, Florida presumably producing his Energy Catalyzers there for his company Leonardo Corporation.

      Also From NextBigFuture March 11, 2011:

      Jed Rothwell who runs the LENR-CANR website (which is an online database of cold fusion information) and is a long time and well trusted cold fusion researcher has reported the following news: “Rossi told me he will demonstrate the device before shipping it to Greece.”
      If a demonstration is held in the USA it will probably be in Florida, because the 125 modules that will compose the 1MW plant are being manufactured in Miami, Florida. Rossi also has a factory and lab in New Hampshire, but it would not make sense to ship all 125 units twice (if the demonstration in the USA would be of the complete 1MW system).

      • daniel maris

        It’s for Rossi to defend himself. However, I would like to point out that this seems to be mixing up several different strands.

        The “million E cat heater unit” factory doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with what could be a prototype factory in a small unit. When does a prototype lab become a factory? When it suits you probably in Rossi’s case…

        I can’t really see why people aren’t more patient. ROssi has claimed that the production of the E cat heater will be up and running probably by the end of the year and certainly by June 2013 at the outside. There’s still plenty of time to hire factory premises, fit them out with robots, arrange for production of the casings in China etc.

        I think if there is no convincing evidence by September of this year of production being readied then we can move into full sceptical mode…and even more so as time progresses. If in the meantime anyone invests in such a project without fully checking out the product what can one say? – it isn’t something I would do and I doubt there will be any mom and pop investors drawn into it.

    • Lu

      “He acknowledged that no nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device.”

      From video on Ecat.com:

      http://ecat.com/news/andrea-rossi-interview-ecat-cold-fusion

      Is this cold fusion?

      AR: This is a good question. I prefer to call it low energy nuclear reaction because I am sure there is an effect which comes from the nucleus….we have found traces of fusion….we have found 511KEV gamma rays at the output…

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

        You are one hyper-kinetic fellow.

    • Lu

      404.141 Prohibited uses.—It is unlawful for any person to use, manufacture, produce, transport, transfer, receive, acquire, own, or possess any source of radiation unless licensed, registered, or exempted by the department in accordance with the provisions of this chapter and the rules adopted and promulgated hereunder.

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

        If the device emitted radiation outside of its body then those regulations would apply. If you applied it very strictly it would not be possible to manufacture, transport, own or operate an arc welder as they do in fact produce X-rays. The question then boils down to how intense are the emissions are and if the general public or even operator are in danger and to what degree. Have you not seen a person performing an arc welding operation at some great distance? Are you in serious danger? No.

    • Lu

      Recent quote from Jed Rothwell on Vortex:

      “I would not want to live within 10 kilometers of a working 1 MW reactor.
      This is a nuclear reaction of unknown etiology, for goodness sake!”

      The Florida Bureau of Radiation Control should have done a better job investigating this. If Rossi E-Cat actually turns out to be true they will be in big trouble, IMO.

      • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

        I too follow what Jed Rothwell says, but I also know how easy it is to cherry pick the evidence and the quotes. You seem very, very up to speed about what everyone is saying. Could you be Steve Kribit by any chance? I’m just asking as you are emitting the same krivitting sound that he produces. Only thing is your grammatical constructs are more exact than the “Snake’s.” His are, to put it bluntly, rather amateurish.

        • Lu

          You seem to have an opinion on just about everything. And like those same kinds of people, you seem to be wrong about everything as well.

          I made a comment and I answered some questions. Why don’t you go mind your own business.

          • http://F-Cat BrilliantsRUs

            scientist wanting to become President to save you from misery… it is his business… and he’s doing it good.

  • Stephen

    One extra comment… reading the seminar post and comparing with the others entries in the list…

    They gave it the main auditorium and a live coverage: this seems unusual. I don’t think they would have allocated a big conference room if nobody goes there so my impression is that the thing is going to receive some decent attention.

    The rest, we will see.

    • Stephen

      woops… talking about the CERN talk here… sorry

      • http://Www.choicedowsing.com Kwhilborn

        Good to hear. Thanks for noting that.

  • Robert

    I think it will be interesting to see if his power output will be high enough to generate more interest from some big players with lots of $$. Secrecy and deception aren’t going to help.

  • daniel maris

    It seems from the presentation he is definitely claiming 300 watts output, not sure if that is net gain. But he certainly seems to be playing in the 00s of watts area. Also, it’s interesting he doesn’t hedge his comments about Rossi’s device with an “if proven”.

    Could Miley have got something like hundreds of watts wrong? Under the sceptics’ LIDS syndrome, incompetence would seem to be ruled out, leaving only lying or delusion. Do any of them want to call Miley a liar? I doubt it, as he seems to be a respectable figure…so it leaves delusion…

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

      The skeptics rarely call someone a liar but prefer to say that the truth is being twisted to the point of unbelievability or the foundation on which their opponent stands does not exist.

      • daniel maris

        I know. That’s why I try to nail them down on what they are saying!

      • http://F-Cat BrilliantsRUs

        If you can walk on water; Rossi cannot produce E-Cat.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    March 23 is important but so is March 22.

    Let’s not forget that the largest physics facility in the world … CERN

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SARgkwczvAE

    CERN is multi multi billion dollar set of buildings and underground tunnels harboring many hundreds of scientists and even the famed Large Hadron Collider.

    CERN is sponsored by over 20 nations.

    There will be a LENR presentation there on March 22, and let’s hope it attracts some interest as its potential holds. It is not “likely” it will be taken as seriously as it should however. This presentation should be available online as well. I am unsure of the information for that at the moment.

    March 22 and 23… woot.

    • Stephen

      Yup, I think the event will be available live, you can find the link in here

      http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=177379

      16:30-17:30 Zurich time… I am very curious

    • sapain

      lern would b benefical to cern, the energy demands to run the accelerators is hugh.

    • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

      If more than a dozen show up to listen to an apostate I’ll be stunned. I’ve no doubt they will bring in holy smoke afterward to clean the air.

      • PersonFromPorlock

        You mean, they’ll censer his comments?

        • daniel maris

          Ha-ha…I got the joke. :)

          • daniel maris

            …that’s because I’ve got a good censer humour.

        • http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/ Steve Robb

          That’s funny!

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        Apparently it is in the “big” conference room. I am not expecting a revolution out of this as the disappointment meter has been activated a lot.

        It does deserve attention.

      • sapain

        something like getting ready to run an experiment, checking all systems 20 times, making sure everything is in place. then oops, sorry, bad connection. i guess all their experimental results r flawed, that cable could have been lose for years.