Obama Calls Oil “Fuel of the Past”, Pushes Alternatives — Does He Know About LENR?

As the US presidential campaign gets into full swing while gasoline prices are spiking, President Barack Obama has been addressing energy issues on the campaign trail — and this will probably be a dominant theme in the race for the White House this year. Yesterday, speaking at a Daimler truck plant in North Carolina, Obama talked about how oil is the “fuel of the past” and called for action to promote alternatives.

“We’ve got to develop every source of American energy; not just oil and gas, but wind power and solar power, nuclear power, biofuels. We need to invest in the technology that will help us use less oil in our cars and our trucks, in our buildings, in our factories. That’s the only solution to the challenge, because as we start using less, that lowers the demand, prices come down,” Obama said.

People who are following LENR technologies will surely notice the absence of any mention of LENR as a possible solution from Obama — which at this point is not particularly surprising given that the field is largely out of favor with the scientific community. But one might suppose that some of Obama’s science advisers have alerted him to some of the work and discussion going on with LENR within his own government (in the military and at NASA) and elsewhere (Rossi, DGT, Piantelli, etc). Perhaps, being far removed from the research labs and scientific circles word has not reached him about LENR possibilities. Even if the president was aware it is still early days, and perhaps not the time to bring a largely untested technology into the public arena.

Regardless of what the politicians say, there does seem to be a gradually increasing awareness that LENR holds real possibilities as a viable alternative to many sources of fuel. Whether there will be any impact on this year’s political campaigns remains to be seen, but Andrea Rossi has said he plans to start marketing his domestic E-Cat this autumn, and start taking firm orders from the public. This could happen at the height of the US election season, and it will be interesting to see if it has any effect on what candidates do and say.

  • Stanley J Dunne

    I read with regret that Prof. Rossi is waiting for certification for the household Ecat.
    I suspect he will be kept waiting indefinitely by the powers that be to keep him from production.
    Bribery in this case to stop him, is almost certain.
    Is there no other way to get these on the market?

  • Grauber

    Now that Rossi denied “atomic reactions” in ecat, and denied of having a production plant in the US, peswiki is going to let Rossi fall.
    They understand Rossis statements to the Dep. of Radiation-Control to be a votum against LENR or a lie on people that have been with him.

    God bless you, Mr Rossi
    Ben from germany

    My reply to Sterlin Allen:

    Dear Mr Sterling Allen and Crew,

    I am very disappointed about the thing, that you roll out articles out of the past, about the history of Andrea Rossi
    and putting his Petrol Dragon into the focus of the public.

    There is no need to destroy this man.
    Shure Mr Rossi doesn´t want to cooperate with big companies and stays on in developing the ecat alone, for himself, as he as a scientist ever did.
    Scientists at all ages never have been businessmen – even so Tesla not was.

    But didn´t Bill Gates and Hewlett-Packard act the same in former times, as Rossi now ?
    I think that there is this period, where Rossi needs to be out of the public discussion.

    But there is one question about your disappointment about Rossi:

    – was there a possible deal, that Rossi missed ?
    – does Rossi not want to be a teamplayer, cause of his personally liked social and financial independence ?

    Maybe you have unwanted become a part of the oil-dragons ponzi-game yourself ?
    As I told you before, they do not want, that tecnologies like ecat hit the market, cause the US-Dollar depends on oil.

    I´m sorry for my bad english-writing mistakes an I hope, that you understand may point of view anyway.

    Regards and god bless you

    Ben from Germany

  • http://globalenergysys.net David

    My dear friends a few people ask because they were interested in seeing what type a work area we have so we put some photos up for you to see. We will not show any of our work because its proprietary to our company and we consider it top secret. I’m also not making a plug for our company.
    We only licensed to a large scale manufactures only.

    David Farnsworth
    Warmest regards to all.

  • Steve Robb

    Ho there fellow travelers! I just thought I would break the thread by announcing that I have written a play entitled “Waiting for E-Cat.” It is a comedic parody of “Waiting for Godot” that is infinitely more interesting and a guaranteed laugh a minute. You will find it here: http://deadstickarizona-zedshort.blogspot.com/2012/03/waiting-for-e-cat.html?spref=tw

    Share and Enjoy

  • NH

    A very unique presentation:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UTLCg8ZJH0&feature=autoshare

    I encourage all to spend the time to have a look.

  • Jerry Green

    Cold Fusion could play in nicely it would ELECT a President if the marketing campaign is handled right )

  • Pingback: Obama Calls Oil “Fuel of the Past”, Pushes Alternatives — Does He Know About LENR? | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • Robert Mockan

    Although Mills of Black Light Power likes to distance himself from the cold fusion crowd, he published “Excess Heat Production by the Electrolysis of an Aqueous Potassium Carbonate Electrolyte and the Implications of Cold Fusion”, in Fusion Technology. vol 20, p65 (1991). His early work using nickel electrodes were sheets of the metal, by 1993 others in the cold fusion field had done the same experiments with sintered nickel powder electrodes in fiber form. By pulsing the current, at 39 degree C solution temperature, COP=3 had been obtained reproducibly. As research continued a few labs started using nano-particles deposited on nickel mesh screens by electroplating, current pulse voltages were raised and with sharp rise times, and the solution temperature was increased to near 100 degree C. Under those conditions COP=5 was reproducibly obtained. COP=8 was routine by 1996 with pressurized reactors operating above the normal boiling point of water. Those reactors could generate steam at high temperature and pressure. Research up to that point seemed to be progressing nicely, then … the next step in the research, if it was ever taken, was never published. (I searched for it). And that was?
    From early Piantelli research it was clear that nickel ABOVE the Curie temperature of about 400 degree C became more active for LENR reactions. The “next step” in nickel electrode electrolysis should have been to increase the reactor to operate above the nickel Curie, because that would maximize the LENR reaction output. That would mean the reactor using nickel and aqueous solution electrolysis (not gas loaded like Rossi E-Cat), already demonstrating a COP=8, should be pressurized so the water would not boil until 475 degree C. At that temperature the pressure would be about 15,000 psi. That of course would not be suitable for home use, but very comparable to uranium fueled nuclear power systems in submarines, where coolant at 5000 psi and high steam pressure was being applied at least as early as 1995.

    The reason I mention this is to show the technology has not been dormant since Pons And Fleischmann. Although the media has demonstrated their usual efficiency in getting people to think as intended,
    that cold fusion was not possible and due to experimental error or worse, fraud, people researching the field and doing experiments knew that military applications were possible. We may never know what has really transpired in government labs the past 20 years, but you can bet that if the president is saying oil is the “fuel of the past” he probably has been told that LENR is real.

    • Robert Mockan

      Correction: ” already demonstrating a COP=8, should be pressurized so the water would not boil until 475 degree C.” s/b “already demonstrating a COP=6, should be raised to a temperature of 475 degree C, where the pressure would be about 15,000 PSI”.

      Reason for rewording is that technically speaking water can not boil above the critical point where the liquid and vapor form a single phase, that is about 375 degree C at 3200 psi.

    • jack

      Sorry, but this sounds very much like a fairy tale, and not even a good one.

      Where are the citations to support your story?

      With reproducibility I understand reproducibility of one experimental setup by at least a dozen other labs with clear results. You claim a cop of 8 here after all. Show me the data!

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        And you are? And you care because?

      • Robert Mockan

        None of the citations ever presented in cold fusion research articles have been verified by “.. at least a dozen other labs with clear results..”, EVER, (at least to my knowledge).
        That includes the work of Focardi, who Rossi is using as a consultant, and Piantelli, who Focardi worked with, and who made the original observation of hydrogen gas loaded nickel generating anomalous heat. But every person has the right to set the bar for acceptance however high they want. In my post I made one reference. In fact Mills was doing 1500% gain at low current density in some of his experiments at that time. In Fusion Technology vol 22, Sept 1992, “Light Water Excess Heat Reaction Suggests That “Cold Fusion” May Be “Alkali-Hydrogen Fusion”, Robert Bush claimed gains of 800% to 5000% in several of his light water cells, some using palladium thin films, others nickel thin films, in different alkali aqueous solution electrolytes. In vol. 24, 1993, also FUSION TECHNOLOGY, Reiko Notoya, comments on progress being made with the nickel cathode “..had a specially designed porous structure, based on fundamental knowledge concerning the active hydrogen electrode in alkaline solutions”. This was an early start into altering surface morphology of the active metal to enhance the LENR effect. Notoya in that article claimed 300% gain, but the object of the research was to analyze products from the reaction to determine if the heat could be explained by fusion of potassium isotopes with hydrogen.

        Unfortunately the FUSION TECHNOLOGY science journal is not available online. I had the good fortune of living near the UCLA science library in the early 90s, and was able to read all the issues of the journal from the shelves at the library. Today with the change over to computers and storage of hard copy that usually can be accessed only if you are a student, or faculty, it can be difficult to follow through on researching the LENR subject today from the primary material. That is why I attended the cold fusion conferences myself, read ALL the science publications when they were available, and kept (some) copies of hard copy that were especially relevant. Hope this helps you research the subject.

        • Robert Mockan

          By the way, I sincerely regret NOT being able to provide available references to the subject online. I’ve considered scanning pages and posting them on my web site, but to what end? The problem, for people that lived through it, is after Pons and Fleischmann published the results of their experiments, many other scientists who tried to reproduce the experiments failed in achieving positive results. P&F have said many times since then, that they should have explained how difficult the experiments were to do, requiring a multidisciplinary knowledge base to do properly. Simply put, many of the scientists, however expert they might have been in their respective fields of physics or chemistry, simply lacked the ability to do the experiments successfully. They did not even know, that they did not know, what they needed to know. Since then a few who continued the research have stated exactly that situation in the beginning. But to point. The science journal FUSION TECHNOLOGY, for many years, was the ONLY journal that would routinely publish the results of experiments in the field. So if you can not obtain and read ALL the cold fusion articles in that publication, starting from the beginning, you will lack vital knowledge about what has been done previously in the subject.

      • Robert Mockan

        The COP=8 was determined in 1994 by Mills, Good, and Shaubach. They published in FUSION TECNOLOGY vol 25 pg 103.
        Mills of course promotes the hydrino, not LENR, generating the excess energy. I neglected to mention this in my previous commentary, but you did ask specifically for the COP=8 data. As I said before, might be difficult to obtain a copy to read, but that is one of the references for the 8 times gain using nickel and hydrogen in an electrolysis cell.

    • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

      Great ! Sincere congratulations.

      • Karl

        Very interesting and comprehensive summary. Would be great if you can complement with some solid sources. At least for those of us that are not researchers in the field but almost sure that LENR/LANR is for real and of such importance to promote for all of us.

        • Karl

          Sorry this comment was aimed for Robert Mocan

  • James Rovnak

    I think Obama knows and the E-cat will help get him re-elected and begin the solution of the Worlds energy problems, Iv’e followed this development from the beginning, theory, practice and demos and am extremely optomistic. Have also repeatedly brought it to attention of political web sites on both sides of the spectruum. I think Obama is a true Patriot when you examine all his actions in detail.

  • Roger Bird

    Obama is a freaking follower. He is not a leader. Don’t expect him to push or even know about LENR until a large segment of the population knows about and pushes LENR.

  • Pontus

    I can see it now. Obama promises us all free and clean energy with LENR (something he does not have) just to get reelected.
    Then when affter the vote he imposes a big tax on LENR to bail out the big oil and plutonium companies because they are too big to fail.
    I vote for Rossi, he offers more hope for the future than any politician.

    • Sparks

      Come to think of it, he might be able to sell the “free energy” message, now that millions have been able to stop paying their mortgages and enjoy having free homes for years now.

      • Allen McCloud

        I’m sure people who can’t pay their mortgages are enjoying life. Keep smoking that republicrack brah.

        • sparks

          I detest republicans.

    • sapain

      then the public realizes they were played for 22yrs-interesting.

  • bob johnson

    I propose that the 15th of March is the “stop following news about e-cat and LENR” day.

    • dragon

      15th of March is “The Ides of March” day. Any particular reason you picked this menacing day for this civil exercise? 🙂

    • Ged

      Et tu Bob?

  • Sparks

    I wouldn’t put much stock in anything a politician or government official (same thing), says, fails to say, or implies, on any topic. Obfuscation is their only duty, owed to their network of fundraising supporters, to spin things in a manner most profitable for these, their real masters. Voters can be played and manipulated as needed in furtherance of these goals. Post-election, politicians will then change their tune as need be, or never bring up again what they were talking about pre-election. Same story, democrat or republican.

  • Brad Arnold

    It is of intense interest whether President Obama’s advisers have the political will to inform him of LENR, because it seems like everyone has their pet energy projects to protect.

    For instance, the Energy Department has budgeted virtually no money toward LENR research. Furthermore, the Green groups I’ve approached are very cold on the idea, preferring known and accepted “alternatives” like wind and solar.

    Finally, Obama is running for re-elections, so even if he is on top of LENR, he and his political advisors aren’t particularly happy about a highly disruptive energy technology emerging before November.

    It will take time to change people’s minds – they are virtually wired to only listen to bad news. LENR has no similarity, so people don’t have any analogous examples to use in understanding the paradigm shift. Our media and politicians are simply mirrors, so you can’t really expect them to lead the charge – instead they will “document” it, and “cheer” it on, when it is occurring.

    All is dependent upon successful commercialization – then the dam will break.

    • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

      The DoE would be stupid to Invest in an energy (LENR) that would make them redundant. Some alternative energies keep them in the game.

    • http://radiosciencenews.org Richard Pollack

      Just wanted to note that, contrary to the idea that “Energy Department has budgeted virtually no money toward LENR research”, though it doesn’t specifically say “LENR” (many disagree on LENR, LANR, Cold Fusion terminology anyway) It must be noted that 150 Million has been made available for “TRANSFORMATIONAL ENERGY” by Obama’s Advanced Research Projects Agency – Energy (ARPA-E) I’m not saying that LENR is the “only” transformational energy they have in mind… but it certainly would be among them.
      http://arpa-e.energy.gov/media/news/tabid/83/vw/1/itemid/49/Default.aspx

  • Pontus

    Obama is increasingly irrelevant. The many broken promises he made to get elected speak for who he is. Clean and free energy is the future. I believe more in individuals that actually do something like Rossi than I do in politicians.

    • sapain

      true, private companies for solar r springing up all over the world and driving the cost down. few more yrs and solar will b top energy dog.
      80w panel was $550 four yrs ago, today it`s $350, china says $300 this yr. in another 3-4 yrs it will be $200 for a 80w panel. at that price, every one will be solarized.

    • Allen McCloud

      Yet another person who doesn’t understand politics. Ya it’s all Obamas fault. I personally blame the people who got fooled by republitards and voted them into office. Who in their right mind thinks… ya things are broken in washington and votes in religinazi nut jobs? Really?

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    LENR – Low Energy Nuclear Reactions sounds deceivingly low energy. The truth is any nuclear reaction can be millions of times more potent than a chemical reaction, and we can derive enough power from this to power everything easily.

    LENR is real. Anyone arguing against LENR needs to update their education as it is being replicated at will worldwide. If you wish to replicate the experiments in your basement there is ample information.

    LENR is just starting to receive attention and funding. Many reputable institutions have replicated the newer Ni-H versin of LENR as well, and support the claims.

    Imagine buying a car with a lifetie worth of fuel built in. Your car has no fuel gauge at all, it just keeps driving forever. This is possible.

    Imagine we replace 600 million smog producing cars and trucks from our planets roads, and instead have cars and trucks that produce no pollution or radiation or waste of any sort. This is possible.

    Imagine cruise ships giving cheaper cruises at twice the speed because they are no longer hindered by fuel costs. This is possible.

    Imagine floating hotel/blimps making a comeback whe the much safer helium/hot air is easily replicated through LENR. This is possible.

    Imagine retiring early on your 45 foot yacht and living in the middle of a lake or ocean without ever having to worry about power fro your computers, televisions, or motors. This is possible.

    Imagine the costs of all food/clothing/items dropping as the costs for transportation and energy to produce them plummet. This is possible.

    The department of energy will indeed be put out of business, however they also spend billions upon billions of dollars on unnecessary nuclear power plants.

    Uranium will become obsolete as it won’t be required for energy, and any attempts to procure or smuggle or enrich Uranium would be much easier to detect in intelligence circles. The word would be safer.

    Oil companies won’t care if a new energy hits nowadays. The Sheikhs in Dubai all probably own a good chunk of Microsoft and Coca-Cola. Oil fortunes were made long ago. Diversification probably has found its way into their memoirs.

    One problem with LENR however. Nobody can control it. Nobody on record that is. We have some people out there claiming they can control this reaction. Andrea Rossi, Defkalion, Brian Ahern, Chan, MIT, Brilloun, Dr George Miley, etc. It certainly would be grand if one of them would prove it already.

    We can combine Hydrogen/Nickel/carbon and get a LENR reaction popping, but it can create heat above 1455 degrees Celsius and melt the Nickel. It ends the reaction, but is far from control.

    Billions of dollars have been thrown at cold fusion, however now that LENR is proven and replicable the funding has dried up in a mountain of skepticism. LENR was sort of an accidetal byproduct of attempted cold fusion.

    Instead of “cold fusion” the elements involved are disturbed and create new atoms of equal weight that decay into heat. This reaction picks up any/most stray Gamma Rays (harmful emissions) and converts them into harmless infra red. This originally convinced some that no nuclear reactions were occurring. In fact; we can pick up gamma rays from other sources in a LENR device and convert them into infra red also. Just a fun fact.

    So we have a power that can fix global warming (if you believe that exists). We have a power that can cheaply desalinate water and feed starving nations. We have a power that can heat and cool your home and power your places of work.

    Just because prices will change, and the DoE will fade away look at the boom this industry will have on a society spending to upgrade and adapt and retrain. It could be a new industrial revolution, and any politician ushering it forward will be heralded.

    Who was Henry Ford? You know him…

    So even if people discount Andrea Rossi/Defkalion. LENR is a reality. Sidney Kimmel (Philanthropist extrordinaire) has just donated $5 500 000 towards LENR at the University of Missouri. We really eed the autootive industry or governments to jump in and level a few billion dollars towards this right away. The longer it is postponed the further chances of Oil wars and bankrupted families exist. The average Joe cannot afford these inflating gas prices for many more years.

    Nobody should ever believe a word Steven Krivit says on this subject. I believe he is strongly motivated to discount Andrea Rossi, and others. Steven Krivit is co-author of a book on LENR from Oxford Press worth $175 each. This book is likely to be replaced by something more relevant and current if research trends in this area continue, and he is poised to lose his job as well. Who will ever vist “newenergytimes” website once a clean, cheap, abundant energy finds its way into existance. Steven Krivit seems to have his own agenda contrary to what can benefit from mankind.

    CERN the largest multi multi billion dollar physics institution operated by dozens of countries is having a LENR conference in exactly 2 weeks. Hopefully this will wake up some scientists and lend some credence to research needs. CERN is home of the Large Hadron Collider amongst a myriad of other large physics initiatives.

    Doctor George Miley associate professor of The University of Illinois is also holding a conference on LENR in texas on March 23. One day after the CERN presentation where he will discuss his LENR based fuel cell. Dr George Miley has inn the past replicated the Patterson cell, and claims to have replicated the Ni-H reaction of Andrea Rossi and has allowed support to Rossi claims.

    Those two days are significant, and hopefully the media/politicians/ and those accountable make a more valiant and heroic effort to bring this technolgy forward.

    • Brad Arnold

      Krivit’s (and New Energy Times’) name will be Mudd if Rossi turns out to be legitimate.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        To me it already is mud. Recently he argued that sensors placed outside of a pipe should get hotter than the water inside the pipe.

        This could be possible if the room was hotter than boiling points, but seems unlikely since people were standing in it.

        So is Steven Krivit not smart enough to deduce this, or is he attempting to twist facts for self preservation?

        • Allen McCloud

          I never understood that either Kwhilborn. I thought I was missing something and that magically it would get hotter on the outside than inside. lol

          Krivit is trash.

        • Ged

          That is absurd. Dang, how could Krivit screw up something so fundamental like that?

        • http://E-Catworld TomTom

          Mud and pig get into a fight. Mud says, “You pig!”; pig says,”You kirvit!”

  • rocky

    If the steam produced is not hot enough to rotate a turbine , Why not that steam produced is not followed by auxiliary boiler to increase its temperature ?

    • rocky

      Or cascaded by another e-cat reactor ?

  • clovis

    Oh, btw, frank, lenr would be a great Christmas present announcement, wouldn’t it. a present for the whole world.

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      Politicians send Christmas messages in October…in election years. It’s called “October Surprise”.

  • clovis

    Hi, Guys and G’s
    MR, Obama, is my president, in whom i’m very proud.
    And if he can help, he will, you can just count on it. he has always been for alternatives fuels. he’s a good caring human.and well capable of leading this great nation, and the world if need be.
    The times they are a changing, better figure out what side to be on, pick the wrong one , you lose. —-smile

    • Tom

      Certainly better than that last buffoon you had. America will lead the way forward. Rossi knows this and is using American resources to build his revolution. The excitement will be through the roof if Obama backs LENR.

    • Cliff Bradley

      Are you kidding? Very proud? Seriously?

      You don’t see that the alternative fuels agenda is a scam to so damage the economy that they can replace it with something more to their liking?

      Open your eyes. Obama won’t try to help LENR, because it won’t help his agenda which is to collapse the economy.

      • Allen McCloud

        And you’re not? Seriously? Keep drinking the republicant cool aid brah! lol

  • MarktheLark

    Lots of people are demanding evidence of the LENR reactors. Why does anyone think that the inventors need to prove anything it to a fan club before its time to market the product.
    Think about it, if you had a revolutionary product that could potentially change the balance of power in the world, wouldn’t you be happy to have the major media pay you no attention and a good sized group thinking you are crazy with no product. At the same time publishing just enough to increase interest in people that really care about this.
    I would! you have a better chance of staying alive.
    My one request would be to publish specs on the ecat. Connector types Does it need a water pump flow rates that sort of thing so that people who want to make stuff to work with the Heaters can have some early design work done before they come out.

    • Peter Poulsen

      The most anger and skeptisism i have seen have been angeled towards the comments stating lenr/E-cat is real, and honestly i can understand that.

      Why do people try to convince others that this technology is real and feasble when no clear proff have been shown.
      Why should we praise Rossi when he comes out saying all kind of grand stuff, yet dont provide any proff to back it up?

      Fair enough if he have a technology that is working. But if he want to keep it a secret then stop keep answering questions, and just shut up. Go and work on your E-Cat and then come back to us when you have a finished product where you can give us clear proff that it is working.

      All this bull**** talk helps noone, and dont bring us closer to the truth.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        You are confusing LENR and e-cats as the same thing.

        LENR is real. Anyone who argues this point needs to update their education.

        LENR is also uncontrollable, however several entities have claimed they can control it. Andrea Rossi claims he can. This is still not proven.

        Do not confuse LENR with Ecats or even Rossi.

      • Brad Arnold

        This phenomenon (LENR) has been confirmed in hundreds of published scientific papers: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

        “Over 2 decades with over 100 experiments worldwide indicate LENR is real, much greater than chemical…” –Dennis M. Bushnell, Chief Scientist, NASA Langley Research Center

        As his claim that he is getting heat from Ni + H is no longer extraordinary, Rossi’s claim is much less extraordinary. He is now only claiming that he has optimized a phenomenon that is known to science.

  • h_corey
  • Kim

    Dear Andrea Rossi:

    I feel very confident that your device is functioning
    quite well and it will be ready for market soon. I’m truly happy for you.

    I’m sure you are aware that Crazy Mad Men are
    looking for any good excuse to depopulate the world at this time.

    Its so much fun to scare people, its their hobby!

    I heard you are going to sell your E-cat on the
    market soon.

    1. Will there be market left when this time
    comes?

    Do you see my confusion?

    2. Are you the part that is the solution?

    3. Are you the part that is the problem?

    I have been confused about these questions.

    When a doctor finds a cure for a man, he usually
    is timely in its delivery to effect the cure.

    Respect
    Kim

  • Luca Salvarani

    As I have explained many times mr Obama (I simply refuse to call him President) will be tne lern’s very number 1 ENEMY! And WHY is very very simple and clear? With lenr all his bullshit such as global warming (by the way here in Italy we just had the coldest winter since 1965…), taxpayer’s money to fund idiot technologhies that people simply refuse such as wind and expecially photovoltaic or biofuel (that has a less than 1 eroei.. proved by many studies)… losing billions of taxpayers money (not HIS)… no more free easy pfofit without risks for his “friends” at the expense of taxpayers and customers.. The governent bureucrats such as him and his friend no longer impose you what to do, when, how to do… so much less power for bureaucrats such as Obambi and more power for the people… exactly Obama’s nightmare! By the way many Americans know very little about financial items… so let me remember you that I’m not only speaking about Solyndra… that’s only the tip of the tip of the iceberg… Wake up America please!

    • HanzJager

      Is it because he’s black? Ever wonder why Rossi came to the US instead of staying in grand ole Italy? Worry about your own country you are in no place to concern yourself with mine. By the rest of your comments you clearly have no idea how innovation works and why sometimes it needs funding from the government. And you’re really going to deny climate change… really? Do us all a favor and stfu!

      • Luca Salvarani

        1) Color doesn’t mean nothing! It’s always the same… when one doesn’t love Obama or simply doesn’t accept his bullshit using his own ming… is because racism… Don’t you have some more conving arguments? Please don’t abuse this argument because it’s too serious..
        2) Rossi was right coming in the US because we are a socialist-defaulting country…. my only fear is that Obama is trasforming the US just like Europe… I’m saying this only because I LOVE US… not the contrary..
        3) I know a lot about financial issues (on the other hand I admit I know very little about other things such as technology)…. and I could explain you how in many countries (also Italy or Germany) a lot of people are getting very rich without risking 1 euro due to authomatic enormous government subsidies causing skyrocketing energy prices, how some factories are forced to close and delocalize due to high energy price…. I anderstand that some market in the early stage could need government support but HOW and HOW MUCH you do this could be very different…. finance technology research is totally different from photovoltaic subsidies for example…

      • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

        Hanz, I agree with on every point accept “climate change.” I have all the correct political affiliations to believe that the fear of “climate change” (originally called “Global warming” was a real and imminent danger. I gave that fear when I started looking into the profoundly shoddy science that lies behind that conclusion. So, just a thought, but I would let Luca have that one, but join you in all the rest. Maybe something to look into…..

    • Peter Poulsen

      Global warming is very real.

      You make the usual ignorant comment that because you had a cold winter it must mean that there is no global warming. This is WRONG! Global warming does not add a few degrees on the current temperture. Global warming adds higher degrees when looking at the AVERAGE temperature over a whole year.

      Fact is that global warming will cause colder winters and warmer summers aswell as more storms and hurricanes.

      Check this video of how the average temperature have changed over the last 130 years.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBCzWTs3r4

      Correlate that to the global CO2 emissions:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqV-kx2ClXU

      • Luca Salvarani

        To Peter Poulsen

        First of all thank you for your kindness… Anyway I don’t trust global warming ONLY because this was a very cold winter in Europe…indeed in the US it was quite the opposite… I have been reading a lot of articles by top scientists that strongly disagree with global warming providing a lot of convincing evidences…. What you don’t understand is that “global warming” has been (ab)using by politicians and unelected bereucracts to spend taxpayers money discrectionaly… this provide them huge power and wealth… Without global warming these practises would be impossible to sell to public opinion so end of the party for them (the insider) at the expense of the people…. Expecially end of the party for those false vulture entrepeneur that are getting very rich without rick nothing at the expense of the customers and the taxpayers… here in Italy this is common, it’s strange that Americans tolerate or don’t understand this…

        PS By the way: the only technology with the potential to solve all these problems (also the supposed ones like global warming) is totally PRIVATE.. no public funds, no public support at all (quite the opposite), no public involvement while all the technology sponsored and highly financed by the government aren’t succesful so far…. only a coincidence????

      • de^mol

        global warming is true if you look at the last 100 years, but also if you look at the last 12000 years (end of last ice age), and not so if you look at the last 10 years or the last 40 million years, then the earth is cooling. Fact is, global warming (and cooling) happens always, since more than 4 billion years. You must be the biggest fool to try to want to keep it at a fixed temperature. The earth won’t buy it anyway.

        So the only question is: does CO2 cause global warming the last century or not and is this due to human activity? Since the temperatures on this planet are falling the last 10 years and we put more CO2 into the atmosphere together with the Chinese, Russians and Indians, the causal correlation is probably not there.

        There are more indications showing that CO2 is not the driver of climate change on this planet in the past. Ice core data (NOAA) show that CO2 changes in the past followed temperature, never the other way around (ocean outgassing). Also in the far distant past in geological history large changes of CO2 on earth never influenced the temperature (see for instance the Cambrian-Perm period). So we can most probably say that CO2 is not a driver for climate change.

    • Petrol

      Solyndra actually produced useful product which is more than can be said for LENR at the moment.

      Less politically charged nonsense and more working product.

      • Luca Salvarani

        1) You don’t understand: working products or not US government (so taxpayers) losed billions $…… Working products don’t mean nothing: also Parmalat or Enron made working products….
        2) A very simple question for you: If Solyndra really makes working products like you said so WHY it filed for bankruptcy? Corportions that generally make working products don’t do so…. Another question: if photovoltaic, wind… are so great why a lot of corporations have filed for bankruptcy and the remaining ones’s stocks and bonds are collapsing (remember that they already get enormous subsidies from taxpayers….). If you don’t trust me, trust your wallet as we usually say here in Italy!

        • Petrol

          Some investments succeed, some fail… No investment is without risk.

          Solyndra was shipping WORKING product all over the world when it went under. The trouble is it did not ship enough at the needed price point to compete effectivly in the global market… I suspect Chinese dumping of subsidized cheap solar onto the market didn’t help things either.

          I don’t understand what you are trying to say when you assert companies shipping working product don’t file for bankruptcy.. sounds nonsensical.

    • Denndo

      LENR is Obama’s number one enemy, but it’s for more than just the instant collapse of all fake-stealin’-from-the public initiatives like global warming, solr, wind, etc. The no.1 reason is that it frees people from dependency on the government. Marxist / liberal goal is to control the population, that is done through health care, food distribution, and of course energy. Note that they are already won on health care, and are considering government involvement in food distribution. With respect to energy, the goal is to drive up the cost and thereby reduce our freedom through reduced access to energy. LENR does just the opposite, it gives freedom back to the people. This is why getting the Rossi devices to market is still a long shot, some “safety concerns” will likely arise that will put a kibosh on the dream of individual energy independence.

      Some of these rants may sound crazy, but watch carefully as government keeps taking more and more freedom away from the people, all under the guise of “fairness”, “safety”, or “for the good of the people”.

      Luca, you are 100% correct, America needs to wake up!

      Much appreciated.

      • Petrol

        When one looks for evidence to support their presuppositions they ususally find what they are looking for.

    • Brad Arnold

      Are you a Republican? Do you really think Republicans will embrace LENR, instead of contining the mantra of “drill, baby, drill?”

      • Luca Salvarani

        To Brad

        Onestly I think yes! Republicans (expecially tea parties which I strongly support) aren’t against other energy sources… they’re against government involvement in the energy free market, government subsidies, government overregulation to change customer’s choices… I love Rossi when he says that only the free market would decide if e-cat works or not… This is how a real genuine entrepeneur works and thinks… exactly the opposite of false and vulture (against taxpayers and customers) so called renewable energies “entrepreneurs”….

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    Let me quantify LENR today in a nutshell for you:

    Military: Maybe but you’ll never know because it’s secret.

    NASA: is NOT working on LENR anybody who thinks they are is mistaken anybody who says or implies that they are is guilty of shoddy journalism.

    MIT: Released a graph chart of a classroom experiment with lots of confusing colors that made very little sense.

    DGT: Had its chance to put up or shut up, they chose the later.

    Rossi: A mad man who treats everyone around him like a bunch of idiots. If you like abuse or are so hard up for results and proof that you will accept his party line without question then he’s your man.

    • GreenWin

      Military: yeah, er, except SPAWAR and DARPA and NASA all openly acknowledge LENR R&D. Some secret.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        We’ve all seen the video. Every NASA center has a media/public relations office.

        http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/about/contact.html

        NASA Langley produced the video about LENR.

        If anybody feels I’m full of it when I state that NASA is NOT working on LENR call the public relations office and ask which exact project is it that is busy researching LENR? Perhaps a name of an organization within NASA that is assigned the task?

        Please reply with the name of that project or organization.

        • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

          By the way, one day I was working at NASA. I was a half-time system administrator and half programmer. Guy comes up to me asks me to reset the terminal server. I say to him we don’t have any. Turns out we do. Another half-time system admin who works for the company owned by the supervisor connected the office. They were using NASA computers to do their work. Of course, why should a small business pay for their own computers when they can use NASA’s? The moral of this story is dig a little deeper. Be a little more of an investigative journalist. And you might find the private company involved with LENR that is using NASA resources to do LENR. But don’t expect to find an official NASA project doing LENR.

          • Omega Z

            NASA has filed multiple patents associated to LENR in the last couple years.

            This indicates research into the subject whether they officially acknowledge it or not.

        • http://Www.choicedowsing.com Kwhilborn

          So the heavy electron patent Joe Zawodny filed assigning the patent rights to his employer NASA must convince some.

          I also suppose Dennis Bushnell, the chief NASA research scientist did not give a LENR slideshow presentation alongside Neilson and Zawodny at the NASA Glen Research Center.

          I also suppose Zawodny did not create a blog saying he was working on a secret project that could benefit mankind back in 2009.

          Secret sometimes means they are not supposed to tell blokes like you.

          You are not persuading any of us who are informed on this topic.

          NASA is without a doubt working on LENR.

          • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

            The patent just means that Joe Zawodny didn’t want to pay for the $10,000 filing fee and the huge legal fees for lawyer companies out of his own pocket. He settled for a tiny percentage of whatever profit the patent generates instead. It’s called leverage. Using somebody else’s money (stupid taxpayer in this case).

            http://futureinnovation.larc.nasa.gov/view/articles/futurism/bushnell/bushnell-bio.html

            Wow! Dennis Bushnell’s NASA web page has LENR written all over it: NOT!

          • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

            You also don’t know if this patent is not a joint Leonardo Corp./NASA patent. There’s alot you don’t know because you go around repeating the words “NASA is working on LENR” like parrots without fully researching the details. NASA usually doesn’t work on military (secret) projects. So the details should be available to an investigative journalist worth his salt thanx to the freedom of information act.

    • Daniel M. Basso

      I wonder if you, even under the mask of anonymity, will say anything if/when you find out you are wrong.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        If I use my real name the post or reply won’t appear. This blog is censored.

        I am for LENR. I sincerely genuinely hope I am full of it and will be proven wrong. Only problem is that time and again that turns out not to be the case.

        I have a stake in LENR working. I have two ranches. One operates only during summer hours because it is too huge to heat. For the other is under construction and I still have to purchase a water and air heater. If I buy an electric water/air heater and LENR turns out to be a scam, I’ll have to replace it and buy propane. I would sincerely and genuinely like to know if LENR is for real so that I can plan electric vs propane and not have a loss later.

        • admin

          I usually don’t moderate posts — I especially wouldn’t delete a post because of a username. Some comments get held for moderation if they have too many links in them. I occasionally delete posts that are particularly obnoxious or insulting.

        • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

          Joe Zawodny claims the video was to explain to people about the patent, so he has claimed it is a NASA patent.

          If he is claiming it is a NASA patent, and it is assigned to NASA, and NASA produced a NASA film laden with NASA logos with a Senior LENR Known scientist (from slideshow presentation at Glen research Center), while sitting at his NASA desk and published on a NASA website. I am tempted to think it may be NASA instead of your claim that Zawodny was sticking NASA with a bill.

          • http://none.com Senor Ponzi

            If you’re so tempted to think maybe you should be thinking about my proposal? I would really feel like a fool if you came up with a project name or an organization within NASA that is working on LENR. I would admit on this forum that I am a dummy if I saw an official NASA project name with LENR in it or a team titled LENR something or other at NASA Langley.

          • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

            “Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center in 1989 and elsewhere consistently show evidence of anomalous heat during gaseous loading and unloading of deuterium into and out of bulk palladium. At one time called “cold fusion,” now called “low-energy nuclear reactions” (LENR), such effects are now published in peer-reviewed journals and are gaining attention and mainstream respectability. The instrumentation expertise of NASA GRC is applied to improve the diagnostics for investigating the anomalous heat in LENR.”

            This is a direct quote from NASA website.
            http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/research.htm

            Directly below the quote is a link to a LENR slideshow produced recently by NASA.

            I am assuming you are a latecomer to the LENR ecat debate so you are uninformed on topics the rest of us know quite well

            I can go on, but if you can find the 4 slideshow presentations from the NASA presentation you will be caught up a bit.

    • sapain

      military, nasa and mit, all government controlled bodies.

    • http://e-catsite.com Ben

      The first line of the LENR video NASA released on January 12.

      “While the world is drastically dependent on fossil fuel, researchers at NASA Langley Research Center are working on another way of producing energy efficient nuclear power.”

      Not really sure how that is confusing to anyone. I think the trolls are getting desperate.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        “researchers at NASA Langley Research Center are working on”

        is not the same as

        “NASA Langley Research Center is working on”

        It’s called daylighting.

    • daniel maris

      …and NASA did not apply for or receive an LENR patent.

      Well done Charles! That’s sorted then…

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        My field of study within computer science is %100 error free artificial languages (Esperanto on steroids). When I worked for NASA I kicked around the idea of having NASA pay for a patent involving the technology. Does that mean that NASA is working on artificial languages? No it just means that NASA has an employee perk program that pays the $10,000 filing fee and if the invention becomes successful pays for legal fees. They do this for employee’s hobbies and pet projects.

        • daniel maris

          As we see with George Miley’s article LENR research is directly relevant to space exploration – as a substitute for conventional RTGs for instance (and also to power Mars exploration I would say).

          So I don’t think your personal experience is directly relevant here.

          The patent application was made behalf of the US government via NASA. I don’t believe there is no screening process.

          Are you claiming there is no screening process and any NASA employee can get their backing for any patent application that takes their fancy?

          • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

            It depends on how much clout you have with your bosses. Joe and Dennis are very talented people. If you’re their boss and they want to patent something are you going to say no? LENR by the way is not unreasonable or wacky. What I think you all are failing to see here is that Joe probably has a company on the outside doing business in the field of LENR. I’m guessing here, I have no proof of this. In that case it’s in his best interest for this not to be an official NASA project. It would be difficult for him to privatize that. I think he applied for some patent. Along with it comes bundled a video. The video might have gone too far but who cares, the mainstream media didn’t catch on, so it’s all good. You need to realize alot of these guys carry two business cards. One from NASA and one from their little side business.

        • daniel maris

          It sounds like you aren’t aware NASA were granted an LENR patent by the US Patent Office. I am aware that NASA scientists can pursue outside business interests.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        Here is LENR patent assigned to NASA

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      Its nice to know we have such a prescient mind in this discussion. Shall we revisit the conversation in two years?

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    Evidence that there is really testing going on Defkalion:

    Mark Dansie on the SmartScarecrow says that he known people who are going to participate in the tests:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn19HbFmTRk

    Go to 01:11:28 to hear the fragment

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Wonder if a new white house petition would recieve more than 537 signatures this time?

    LENR is real, however the ability to control the reaction has yet to be verified but is claimed by 3 or more entities.

    LENR is fact confirmed in labs worldwide, and any dispute to that is a result of a non updated education.

  • John

    Definitely out of favor!

    Pons & Fleischmann scared the daylights out of a lot of American Physicists and Fusion Engineers at some very prestigious institutions a few decades ago…

    To preserve the $100s of $Millions in “Real” Fusion research, these institutes made “cold fusion” a label-of-ridicule. A by-product of their wallet-padding is the inevitable skepticism about ANY form of catalyzed fusion.

    OH WELL!

    GO-ROSSI-GO!

    • Kim

      Money science as opposed to Empirical Science.

      Pocket book science… Uh! my wallet says no.
      Its impossible.

      No real science with money lurking as the primary
      discovery tool.

      Nice Article

      Respect
      Kim

  • Brian

    “the field is largely out of favor with the scientific community.”

    Favours are only important when you have no results.
    No-one has demonstrated a convincing experiment. Talk, yes, and claims are many.

    But just put a sizzling hot box on a table and invite two journalists to witness it staying hot for 24 hours, and you make the evening news around the world.

    This article seems to suggest that ‘LENR’ isn’t well known because doesn’t get favours.
    That’s the wrong way around. Show results first, and favours will follow.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Brian, you seem to think that Rossi and Defkalion are the only players in this game. Did you hear about the demonstration at MIT recently? http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue102/mitdemo.html

      What about all of these scientist that have published their findings in peer reviewed journals: http://nickelpower.org/2011/12/30/replicators-as-if-december-30-2011/

      Rossi is irrelevant to the question of whether LENR is real. Defkalion is irrelevant to the question of whether LENR is real. LENR is real. The results have been shown.

      • Jonathan

        Not to such a level that it is irrefutable. I think that the only way that cold fusion will take off is if a commercial and economical product is released and everybody starts using it. To say that Rossi/Defkalion are irrelevant is deluded.

        • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

          I beg to differ in your statement “not to such a level it is irrefutable.” LENR is, as others have said here, irrefutable. How hard have you looked at the evidence, and at the caliber of scientists involved in the research. You calling McKubre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKubre) a liar? Piantelli? Stremmenos? There are dozens of top level electrochemists who have validated LENR at labs such as SRI, MIT, etc.

          As for the rest of your argument it is just a descending tissue of claims with no logical connection between them, concluding with the statement “To say that Rossi and Defkalion is deluded.” Ok, call us deluded again and see if we care. Bruce Fast is right. It will be nice if either Rossi or Defkalion come through. But if they fail, that says very little at all about the future of LENR over the next decade, however much some will want to make it a verdict on the entire science, for their own concealed reasons.

      • Josh

        BFast – you post your list of replications everywhere. I’ll grant they are all real. But, it doesn’t really matter to me unless someone can do something useful with their findings. Fine, LENR needs to be researched further… but one convincing demonstration of something even close to useful would spur lots of investment – public and hopefully private.

    • Ged

      Well, the thing is, there have been journalists, engineers, and even scientists brought to witness that sizzling box. That’s been done several times now. But none of it has been definitive due to lack of good controls.

      Defkalion’s method for testing is the right method, with a control machine one swaps between. That’s the only way to be definitive; and is the proper way to carry out a scientific experiment of this nature.

      It’s kinda fun on one hand; all these discussions should be teaching people what makes for good science and what doesn’t, coincidentally.

      • georgehants

        Any attempt to defend main-line science in this saga and many others is futile.
        If Rossi et al are genuine or frauds science is shown to be a proven fraud and incompetent to the extreme.
        Only a full investigation into the closed-minded Dogma infested institution will have any hope of cleansing the the naysayers and status-quo huggers from the wood-work.

        • Ged

          I’m sorry, but I -am- a scientist. And no, science isn’t a thing it’s a methodology for collecting knowledge about the reality we live in. The scientific method is the most powerful method for knowledge collection and verification, as all the technology in your daily life came from it; not to mention the medicines that allow us to live on average past 30, that produce our crops, and so forth.

          The way science gained knowledge is twisted in the political realm (e.g. dogma) has nothing to do with science itself.

    • Bob

      Well let’s see….
      Wind power does produce power, but not at any cost effective level. If it was not for big government subsidies, not one wind farm would be built.

      Solar like wise has no answer. Not that I am against these, just at this time, they cannot meet the need nor justify the cost.

      So should we ridicule and discount wind and solar?
      Probably not. However if we had ridiculed and discounted them when they were in thier infancy, they too would never have came about. It takes time to develop.

      LENR is in it’s infancy and is in danger of being aborted because of egotistic’s that state “because our (limited) understanding does not readily account for this phenomena, it must be bogus and we WILL NOT look at it any further!” “As a matter of fact, we will ridicule and try to stop anyone from investigating it!”

      What closed mindedness! Did Edison know about photons when he produced a workable electric light? Did he care? No. The “establishment” ridiculed Einstein when he first proposed his relativity theory. It did not “fit” in thier understanding. It was totally new and did indeed change how physics was percieved. Yet it took a while for this to be accepted, somewhat due to the same closed minded attitude.

      Do we know everything about physical laws? Are we 100% sure that there is nothing new or to be discovered and we should expell any persons thinking outside the box? How conceited man can be!

      Oh by the way, nothing can go faster than the speed of light…. so we should shut down CERN because those clearly fraudulent crazies are clearly trying to scam hundreds of millions of dollars because they published findings showing faster than light particle speed! –(Sarcasm of course… if I applied the same thought process as many apply to LENR/Cold Fusion)

      CERN may or may not prove faster then light particle travel. Time will tell and we should let them have that time. Time will tell on LENR and we should wait and see and give hopeful support. It IS to our mutual benefit.

      • daniel maris

        No you’re wrong on wind. PV Solar is way more expensive than wind.

        In fact land based wind energy (the biggest turbines) is about on a par with coal now in terms of electricity generation and cheaper than new nuclear. It’s not as cheap as natural gas.

    • sapain

      what would happen if the main stream media started splashing the work done by sparwar and other groups every day for a week like they do with things like greece, iran etc.
      99.9% of the populace has no clue of the developments of lenr.
      every time lenr pops it`s head up, it`s quickly attacked and push back down.
      they have results that lenr is real, but the knowlegde of it is suppressed.
      it`s like everything else, if it can`t be controlled by a few then no gets it.
      solar was controlled for 25yrs through patents, now that the patents have expired, the contol over it is legally gone. there r manufacturing plants poping up at a fast rate. solar is still being attacked, by the misconceptions that it`s to expensive.

    • GreenWin

      Here’s Dr. Roland Pettersson of Upsalla University suggesting the e-cat is a “revolution.”

      http://consciouslifenews.com/cat-cold-fusion-revolution/1125754/

      Obama has to play down this area since it is so disruptive. But he KNOWS about it and its progress. If handled right, the cold fusion revolution could be the Obama Admin’s shining moment.

    • http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

      Brian, as others have already said, you are wrong. Do some research.

  • ED

    Oil like a drug. If you test that, you need a Doc. Any president test Oil. What YOU want?

  • tom h

    lol he called oil the fuel of the past because it is, nothing to do with LENR. Shortages and thus chaos are coming.

    • Ged

      No, there is plenty of oil still around; in fact the US has an enormous reserve of oil. We are just unwilling to tap into it, pure and simple.

      There’s no doom and gloom ahead other than artificial inflation of oil prices and all the trouble that brings.

      What we really need is nuclear power; wind and solar are gimmicks.

      • sapain

        solar is now cheaper than nuclear. difference is nuclear is controllable, solar isn`t.

        • Ged

          Solar is not even remotely cheaper per MW than nuclear, it’s not even remotely on par with. Here’s the costs of power plants in $/megawatt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Levelized_energy_cost_chart_1,_2011_DOE_report.gif

          That’s just the US, where we HEAVILY subsidize (that means the Government pays people to build) solar plants. In France the ratio is this:

          Nuclear – 50 euros per megawatt
          Solar – 293 euros per megawatt

          So, solar is a complete waste. And this ignores that solar isn’t on during the night, and is greatly reduced in efficiency during cloudy days. All that is IGNORED in this analysis.

          The only thing more gimmicky than solar is wind power.

          Interestingly, if you look, the only power source with a higher capacity percentage than nuclear is geothermal (92% to 90%), while the only plants cheaper to make than nuclear are natural gas (most types) and conventional coal (not advanced, clean coal).

          • sapain

            u actually believe what the government tells u.

          • Ged

            Because physics, not the government, tells us solar can never come close to nuclear as a solution for world energy production. Same with wind. It’s a novelty that can help individual homes, but not a nation, nor a world.

            At about high noon there is around 1 kw per square meter of solar energy hitting the earth. So, to make a 1 MW plant that was 100% efficient, you’d need 1000 square meters of solar panels.

            In reality, solar panels are around 15-20% efficient, meaning you’ll need around 5000-8000 square meter of solar panels to make 1 MW at -high noon-, when the sun is shining directly on them.

            Add clouds, add the fact the sun tracks in the sky and the incidence of radiation changes, add dust, add night time, and you can see how useless solar really is in the long run.

            The amount of land we have to sacrifice for solar and its back up batteries is absurd. Land we could use for parks, lakes, farms, and other things.

          • sapain

            ged, let`s talk physics.
            1 gr. of uranium=2.37 tons of coal-usefull energy=664.64 kwhrs/gram of uranium energy. finite.
            silicon captures energy, 6gr./wattx65 billion yrs.=3.16×10(12)kwhrs/gram.

            area, 1hect.=100mx100m=10,000m2 per MW of solarx100 hect.=100MW. nuclear power plants r 300+hector. solar can b roof mounted, 0 space.

            put solar on trackers and kept them perpendicular fron sun up to sun down, solar produces on cloudy days, output varies to cloud thickness. wind helps to balnce gain, wind comes with changing weather patterns.
            a 600w system on a tracker gives me over 7kwhrs on a sunny summer day, 3x more than i use and store the rest and good for 3 days, actually i store enough for a week. when clouds move in the wind picks up and the windmill buzzes away.
            nuclear power stations cost around 3 billion, u can create alot of self replicating solar manufacturing plants for that amount.

          • Ged

            Well, firstly, your 16 billions years thing is meaningless. Silicon does not generate energy itself, as fissioning uranium or burning coal does. Silicon catches a very small spectrum slice of the sun’s energy and allows us to turn it into electricity at very low efficiency. The sun will have destroyed all live on the earth long before 16 billion years, in 5 billion years or less actually, when it enters red giant phase.

            Secondly, your 1 hectar = 1 MW is even harsher on solar power than my very generous calculations, and also more realistic.

            Thirdly, I also vastly over estimated the amount of solar energy that hits the Earth. The energy that actually makes it to the earth’s surface is about 400 W per square meter. The rest is absorbed or reflected by the atmosphere before it hits the ground where a solar panel can collect it (again, a small part of that 400 W spectrum is available to solar panels, not all 400 W). Hence why the 10,000 square meters (1 hectar) per 1 MW of solar generation is realistic, but still generous.

            Now then, take a look at this nuclear plant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashiwazaki-Kariwa_Nuclear_Power_Plant . It is 4,200,000 square meters. If you collected -all- the energy from the sun striking the surface, and turned it all into electricity 100% efficiently with no loss, you’d make 1.68 gigawatts of electricity. Now,that power plant itself actually generates over 8 gigawatts of electricity.

            So, here we see for the same land use space, nuclear power is generating 8 times more electricity than 100% of all the energy from the sun reaching that spot. However, nuclear is always on night and day, and a solar plant can only do 12 hours on average, meaning you’d need double the area already just for that reason to match a nuclear plant.

            So, if we could capture 100% of all solar energy, and convert it with 100% efficiency, a solar plant would need 16 times more square area of surface than a nuclear plant built in 1985.

            Don’t forget nuclear has been advancing too, and becoming far more effective at generating power. It already surpasses the output per square meter of the sun, and that gap is growing.

            So, as you can see, nuclear is far superior to solar, and always will be.

            (As a footnote, if we did my original calculations and said the full solar energy was 1 kw per square meter (which it is not), then that impossible 100% converting solar plant taking up the same space of that nuclear plant would generate 4.2 gigawatts, or about half of what that nuclear plant does. So the calculation would be 4 times the surface area needed for that fictitious solar plant to match nuclear output from that 1985 plant. No matter how you slice it, solar is a gimick that can never compete with nuclear)

        • Ged

          Oh, also, we can look at other energy reports.

          Let’s take California’s cost per megawatt for the different plant types. California is very sunny, one of the most sunny places you can find, so solar should have the best return and the lowest cost per megawatt, right? Well…

          According to the California Energy Commission:

          Advanced Nuclear: 67 dollars per megawatt.

          Solar: 116–312 dollars per megawatt.

          So, even in the best case, solar is on average over twice the cost per megawatt than nuclear, isn’t always on, and loses efficiency rapidly with time as solar collectors degrade.

        • Luca Salvarani

          If solar is so cheap…. WHY IT NEEDS BILLION $ SUBSIDIES? WHY CUSTOMERS AND TAXPAYERS ARE OBLIGET TO SUBSUDY IT? It’s cheap… perfect! A good reason to totally drop any subsidy now… After that you can install as much solas you want but with YOUR MONEY not with others one!!!! WHY so many people don’t understand this very simple point? It’s frustrating!

          • sapain

            germany is dropping subsides for 10+mw installations, they r starting the processes of removing nuclear power plants.
            china has announced it is ahead and will be dropping their solar price in 2012.
            in another few yrs solar will be dramtically cheaper as more manufacturing plants come on line, silicon harvest as greatly expanded and there is a hugh supply.
            oil, nuclear r still subsidized, why, to keep the price down. if oil and nuclear lost the subsidies solar would be top dog.
            if u find solar expensive start a small bussiness and let ur income tax pay for it.

      • tom h
    • Filip

      amen

      • Filip

        anyone heard of thorium(as nuclear fuel)? even better than an Ecat and the technology already exists from the early fifties, clean, cheap and available

        • sapain

          yes, thorium is a good system, cheaper, safer system and would help deplete nuclear waste.

        • Brad Arnold

          Thorium clean? Huh? It is better than enriched uranium, but give me a break…do you work in the nuclear power industry?

          • Filip

            the only reason why “they” don’t use thorium is because “they” don’t get plutonium out of it to make bombs, compaired to uranium thorium is icecream

  • sapain

    the office of the elite closed the door in 1989 on F&P, and have kepted the door closed. lern will remove control over the all. political groups and politicians r lobbyists of self interest.
    lenr would crash the usd as world currency as it`s based on oil.
    if obama or any politican were the person of the people, obama would of took a few billion and have a self replicating solar factory in every state and there would b no artifical energy enviroment.
    the mention of lenr and it`s potential would b an instant victory for 4yrs, but what would the long term chain reaction be. oil would lose it`s power, all the mega corporations would wither.

  • adam

    Politicians will not talk about LENR during an election season, it’s too politically risky.