Rossi Answers Detailed Questions About Domestic E-Cat



Now that Andrea Rossi has said that the design of the domestic E-Cat has been finalized there is quite a bit of curiosity about its specifications from people who actually believe that this invention might become a reality. One of the big questions that people are now asking is whether it will be worth it to make an expenditure for one of these early devices. Rossi has always guaranteed that these E-Cats will put out 6 times more thermal power than the electric heat required to run them, but even with that kind of COP, you have to take into account the cost of electricity and the machine(s) itself if you are trying to figure out if it makes sense to make a purchase.

Recently some detailed questions have been asked on Rossi’s site, and he has provided some answers:

First set of questions with Rossi’s answers in bold.

1. Can the e-cat replace my existing boiler and will I require two e-cats? the 2 E-Cats will be applied to your heater, which will be a back up
2. Is the home e-cat designed to operate on an ‘on demand’ basis? I read that it had a long start up time so I’m not sure. It can work on demand, using a by pass. The E-Cat will work at lower energy, ready to give max power on demand.
3. Will the e-cat need to be on and operating non stop, i.e. 24 hours per day for my scenario above? it will be alweays on, but you will regulate it on demand
4. Can the output be varied in accordance with the heat required? Yes
5. If yes to the above question, will the electricity consumption reduce too with the reduction in heat output? Yes
6. If yes to above then by how much will the electricity consumption reduce? What is the minimum consumption? The minimum is zero, the max is 2.7, the average is 1.2
7. Is the 1.67kW electricity consumption an average consumption taking into account the 2.8kW start up consumption and the self-sustain periods? Yes
8. If yes to the above question then for 24 hours continuous operation it will use 40kW (1.67kW*24) of electricity? less, it will be 1,2 x 24, if you use it 24 hours

Second set of questions:

1) Could the E-Cat itself (not it’s control devices) be damaged if the starting procedure was abruptly interrupted? No
2) Giving immediately back power, would mean restarting from the beginning or you will save the time spent before interruption? depends from the time elapsed between the two phases: if it is up to 15 minutes, it recovers, after that recovers progressively less
3) Given that every two hours the E-Cat would require again to be powered, the necessary amperage needed in this phase would be the same of starting phase? No
4) How long will last this periodical powering phase (more or less)? 1 hour

With this kind of information it will be time for many people to start getting out their calculators and start looking at their fuel bills to see iff projected fuel savings will be worth an outlay on E-Cats. For people who already have well insulated home and are using cheap natural gas, or have solar heating systems already installed, it may not make too much sense right away — but for people who are paying high rates for fuel oil, propane or electricity, the E-Cat could look very attractive.

Another point to consider is that energy prices are quite volatile. Fuel that is cheap now could increase for a variety of reasons — or go down if LENR really takes off and puts a dent in the energy markets. It is very difficult to predict what might happen. Another thing to consider is this E-Cat would be the very first LENR mass production product on the market, and certainly will be primitive in its technical development compared to what it might become in the future. Some people will likely wait a few years to see what a mark II or III E-cat might look like. More efficient models will probably follow this first one, and if an E-Cat that produces electricity comes on the scene, there will probably be a lot more interest from consumers.

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  • David R.

    I have run the numbers for my own home. A 10Kw Ecat would easily recoup its cost in one year or less based on my current combination of electric and propane heat sources. Effectively it would reduce energy cost to around 4 cents/Kwh including input power,fuel and amortization compared to 12.5cents/Kwh for electricity and 16cents/Kwh for propane.

  • ER

    I new there were many people who just are incapable of understanding 1 plus 1 but but this just verifies it. Hang in htere fokes big oil will take care of you. I am 100% on board with the LENR, PlasmERG,and plus a few other energy savers coming to market. Every one seems to forget about the real thing here is polution, so even if it cost the same or a bit more it is polution free. Tell me something is the sun going to rise tommorrow? Well it is obvious this is all for real and a positive thought will take you futher than the bull crap you people throw around.

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  • yas

    There’s one born every minute. Anyone who believes Rossi is anything but a fraud is not paying attention to his history and the actual facts of what he has independently proven, which is exactly nothing. SCAM!

    • James Rovnak

      I think you are off base and haven’t been doing your homework!

  • David

    Parliamentary questions on cold fusion – Italy.

    2012-03-02

    Check eng forum at http://www.defkalion.se

  • mike

    OH! BY THE WAY (sorry did’nt mean to yell) did anyone see where sentor shumer wants saudi aribia to max out its OIL production rate as of yesterday?? ya got to be kidding… all are hope ride’s on Rossi, M.I.T., NASA, God forbid, DARPA, all our egg’s in one tiny little basket!! WE ARE DOOMED~!!!

  • mike

    I think you are all off point here. Greece is selling ALL their oil asset’s at a time when “defklying” has “something”? how stipid can you get! Rossi is trying to make it work, he gets heat but the eroei is all wrong. i live in montana usa, and it would not work in colder areas as we need to much heat…. -20 below 0 for weeks and i still have to suplly the elect. to run this thing…. not a chance. this is going to be for lg. indrustry for the forseeable future. all we can do is sit back and let it run it’s course. in the mean time peak oil is staring us in the face!

    • tom h

      Yes! Peak oil is just around the corner now. This time next month were be another couple of billion barrels closer :/.

      Since i started writing this (approx 40 seconds) we have burnt another 40,000 barrels.

      • tom h

        or lets put it this way:
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt
        theres another 480,000 gallons of oil burnt

        • tom h

          if you want to know the calculations involved its as follows:

          we use 40,000 gallons of oil a second, it took me approx 12 seconds to write each sentence, so 40,000x12seconds = 480,000

          i wrote 6 sentences so 480,000 x 6 = 2,880,000 gallons of oil burnt just while i wrote that :/, and people dont think we have a problem.

  • Kim

    Building a million units of anything is going
    to require a building bigger than a bread box.

    We need to start looking… soon!

    Respect
    Kim

    • Jimr

      I hope he doesn’t jump the gun with his construction of a million Ecats. There will have to be many supporting attachments to enable his devices to be used effectively. If not done properly Rossi may end up with 970000 Ecats In a warehouse unsold.

      • Marius

        The Scandinavian marked alone will easily swallow a million units just as they are.

        • Peter Poulsen

          the danish market alone in scandinavia consisting of 5.5 million people could easily swallow a million units tbh.

      • mike

        I dont understand why you all keep looking for excess heat when by definition an atomic reaction does not require it. but! if you want excess heat with a atomic level reaction just look at wood gasification. it strips atom of ox. to create a hydrogen reaction. it is clean and self sustaining as long as fuel is present….. yes LENR/LANR is cool but we need somthing we can use as of yesterday. stop looking to the futurre and look in our past !!!

        • sapain

          i use the sun-cat.

    • mike

      please! 3 questions. 1)what are you looking for, a building? ok! now 2)where? 3) anybody or company can open a “shop” and never be seen as anything more than people moving in a small shop. my next point is i have been watching this site for over a month now and people keep talking about generating heat/electricticy. ok, folks lets do a reality check on all this… this is NOT a self sustaining unit it must be fed fuel like anyother machine. yes it does have a bright future … however as we are dealing with peak oil issues we need things that work now! has anybody noticed that Greece is trying to sell off all ther oil intrest as of like now! distrebution, pipeline’s, the whole shebang! NOW I WONDER WHY? i think “defklying” has played a big gam on everyone!

  • Roger Bird

    I just recently moved to a Missouri state of mind. Please show me. There is plenty of hot air floating around. Mr. Rossi, please show me.

  • Andrew Macleod

    I hope the ecat mark II will use electrolysis or something similar to provide hydrogen on demand for a greater reaction, and still circumvent the safety issues with compressed hydrogen.

  • Rogerborg

    If the design is “finalised”, then in what countries has it been certified and approved for domestic installation?

    I ask because no sane person would “finalise” a design before it had been through certification.

    It’s the elephant in the room, because it’s independently verifiable information. If there’s no answer to it, then there’s no device, period.

    • Steve Robb

      The number and variation on the theme of debunking the existence of the e-cat, by the use of the most specious of argumentation is stunning.

      • Rogerborg

        When all you have to sell is bunkum, you should really anticipate and have an answer for these kind of reasonable questions, even if it’s just another shriek of “puppet snakes!”

    • joe

      Certification cant happen in this country because no one is allowed to sell products with secret materials inside. And Rossie will never tell anyone what is the secret sauce that allows heated hydrogen and nickel to be transmuted into copper while producing more heat that was inputted.

  • dragon

    New article about LENR devices:

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/406981-cold-fusion-a-cure-for-high-gas-prices

    This is the info that really is interesting:

    “At least six other companies are in startup mode, including: AmpEnergo, Seldon Technologies, (US 2011/0255644) Lattice Energy, Brillouin Energy Corporation, (US 2011/0122984) Energetics Technology and Star Scientific”

    Go on the article and press those links to the 6 companies.

    Check these two:
    http://lattice-energy.blogspot.com/
    http://www.brillouinenergy.com/

    • sapain

      with all the patents applied for and granted shows the momentum of lenr.

  • Zoltan Freitag

    Io sono un po’ deluso. Perché tutto questo consumo elettrico? Sapendo che le future generazioni di e-cat produrranno (invece che consumare) elettricità non c’è il rischio che la vendita dei primi e-cat entro un anno si risolva in un flop? Cioè che tutti aspettino a comprare una versione perfezionata? Non era meglio aspettare un po’ e mettere sul mercato qualcosa che desse veramente indipendenza energetica? E poi perché conservare le vecchie caldaie invece di rottamarle definitivamente e sostituirle con l’e-cat?

    • Claes

      Well, I think that electricity production will be a bit more complicated than that. You’d probably need a gas turbine and things like that to produce electricity. Hope you can read English – I can read but not respond well in Italian.

  • Julian Becker

    I believe countries economies will be effected differently once electricity can be generated with the E-Cats. While countries like the EU, China and the US will mainly profit from the E-Cat (maybe not Aramco, BP or Sinopec), oil-exporting countries like Saudi Arabia and Gas Exporters like Russia will surly suffer from the introduction of the E-cat.

    • dragon

      You said: “oil-exporting countries like Saudi Arabia and Gas Exporters like Russia will surly suffer from the introduction of the E-cat”

      Is that so bad? The way I see it now is that US, China an EU is suffering now. I will prefer the tables to turn in our favor.

    • sapain

      right now exposters r in the black while importers r in the deep red.

  • Δημος

    I am 50 years old and i am a mechanical engineer.
    Through years i have seen a lot of scientsts engineers, doctors etc claiming that they have trully invent this or that or the cure of a disease etc…
    Usally these ‘inventors’ announce their achievments through TV (todays is net) direct to public, bypassing the scientist community and procedures. This is not the right path to use.
    Most of these people were mostly disturbed personalities, with some kind of psychopathetic problems due to their strong devotion/obsession to science, and lack of the knowledge needed. Rest ware just scams.
    Of course i believe that everything is possible (Messi for example). I am even, gladly, willing to ‘eat my hat’ (like John D.Rockerduck) if this e-cat is true (cop>6).

    • dragon

      It is not about the E-Cat, really. It is about LENR.

      Do you deny LENR as a field? If no, then sooner or later we will have a device that will break through electric generation barrier.

      • Robert Mockan

        That is not a definite yet. Reason is that nickel 63 has the highest binding energy of any nuclei, and one would think it should be the LAST element that would show LENR. Yet at the moment it seems to be the one in the news for generating high thermal power out. It is conceivable it is the only element that will do so using LENR, although others have shown they support the phenomena, but with lower thermal power out. In conventional nuclear reactions the mass defect of products from fusing of light elements, and of products from fission of heavy elements, is largest. But nickel and iron are the most stable. So why does LENR work with nickel nuclei? Another question that needs to be answered before saying for certain that LENR is going to be more useful than uranium fission for aerospace applications.

        • Robert Mockan

          CORRECTION:
          I meant for electric power generation although also applies to aerospace applications.

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  • Phil-UK

    Why is the 1MW E-cat so big and so expensive?

    If the 10KW E-cat will be 12″x12″x2″ and cost ~$600.

    So the 10KW unit, with all it’s control units and catalyst, etc is supposedly about the size of 2 laptops, one on top the other. So the 10KW E-cat will be 288 cu inches, that’s 6 units per cu foot.

    I would need 100 of these 10KW E-cats to produce 1MW.

    100 x 288 cu inches = 28,800 cu inches = 16.7 cu feet.
    100 x $600 = $60,000

    so to produce 1MW I’d need <17 cu feet (plus whatever for additional pipework, etc) and $60,000.

    So why does Rossi's E-cat need a 20ft container (1280 cu feet) and cost, what, $2,000,000?

    I appreciate the 10KW is supposedly a better design but surely, if all this is for real, then the 1MW plant should drop down significantly in price and size?

    • Andrew Macleod

      I believe the functionality of the two are different. 10kw ecat is for homes it runs cooler. Kind of like the difference between building a shed or a house, you can’t compair the costs by looking at square footage alone.

    • sparks

      You make a good point here. This throws more doubt on the home unit, in my opinion.

    • kryptomaniac

      If the temps are different, that’s one thing. But look at the rest of what’s needed. A 1MW unit will not have 100 10k units all pluged into one big power strip. It’s current requirements would be much higher, (though presumably they would sequence startup so you don’t need 1000+amp circuit to crank the thing up.)

      The control system will be much more robust as it has to coordinate and syncronize the individual units.

      Commercial anything is also more expensive as the needs are different. Why is a consumer camera $150 and a professional camera $5k? Why are home internet routers $50 and commercial ones $300 for a cheap one? Why are consumer battery backups much cheaper than commercial versions? The requirements are different and the resulting features/components are different.

      • Sparks

        I must disagree. In the case of LENR, the industrial-sized unit enjoys tremendous economies of scale. This is a totally different trade space than two similar-sized cameras, one for consumers, and another (with more controls and higher quality parts) for professionals. The home e-cats all need the same full-complexity control systems as the commercial, centralized power plant — in fact, moreso, because the power plant has trained operators on staff at all hours. No, I am afraid phil-UK has brought up an ingenious and compelling observation, that threatens to strip away the credibility that this Q&A with Rossi had hoped to generate.

    • Ged

      That was built with the old e-cat design. Big and clunky. It also pushes much higher temperature, requiring different types of materials and equipment. We can see the size of the old e-cats ourselves in the pictures, so it’s no surprise it’s so big and expensive. Also speaks to it being built before and without any optimizations for mass production (each unit custom made?).

      • Steve Robb

        There is also a thing know as “economy of scale” where the production method for the home e-cat results in lower costs per kWh than the nearly hand-built 1MW units.

      • Phil-UK

        I appreciate the first 1MW was old design and basically a prototype, so I have no argumant there as for the costs and size on that model.

        My point is future 1MW plants which costs $1.5 million from the last I saw and are container sized. These 1MW plants contain 52 modules, so each module must be ~20KW correct?

        Why would you bother making 20KW hand made modules to go into a 1MW plant if you’ll be churing out 1 million 10KW units from your robotised factory? Surely you would use 100 of these new units and create your (new) 1MW plant, much cheaper and smaller? Making 20KW units by hand makes no sense to me.

        1 10KW unit will be ~$600 ($60/KW)
        1 20KW unit works out ~$29,000 ($1450/KW)

        That is a massive difference, ~25 times more? I don’t see it somehow.

        I get the economies of scale, but it’s not like the 1MW plant is some massive single unit, it’s 52 small units linked together. It’s not really a far stretch to stick 100 domestic 10KW units together in the same configuration is it?

        • Lumen

          This has all been covered before! Why don’t you people read a bit before re-hashing the same arguments.
          The reason was, the home e-cats only have a certain temperature rise before the control shuts them down for safety. The industrial e-cats can operate to a much higher temperature and also have hotter input temps without shutting down. The internal chamber is different also for the same reason. So 100 home e-cats will output 1000 kw heat in parallel to about 140f degrees where the industrial e-cats can be connected is series to increase the temperature of the first device.

  • δμ

    Does this e-cat has a water heat exchanger (eg plate)? What is the overall efficiency ?
    Why does the inventor replies to such simple questions and not a specialized enginner?
    The thing looks more and more like a catalytic ion generator (which is a totally scam concerning the consumption).
    And finally where is this 1 MW station? Since it has been authorized, i do not understand how and why it remains a secret…
    I think that an official complaint to energy providers authorities will bring some light.

    • Karl

      You mean the dirty energy police?

      • δμ

        I understand that prior to a 1 MW station connection to an energy line public or private, there must be an obligatory national-regulations meeting and also some kind of lisence is given.
        So the position of station, if the above procedure is true, cannot be a secret.
        If not, please specify a case that i have the right to connect such a station to an energy line or direct to consumption without a lisence by an energy service inspection.

        • kryptomaniac

          Why do you conclude it must meet national-regulations and a license given?

          Wasn’t the first purchaser reputed to be military? I don’t think they’d have problems with these issues.

          • mike

            thank you…. DARPA!!! ring any balls. no lic. no patent. they can take what they have and run with it as far as the like. remember if it wernt for DARPA we would not be having this talk right now. ie: THE NET!!! please, everyone, fantasy and good wishes aside, we have a very really problem i still say as for heat, elect., and a means of powering a car or truck woodgas gives you all that and at a cost that we can afford right now. as i recall from the peak oil post, we are talking life or death here!!

  • Brad Arnold

    I am perplexed, because people don’t seem to understand: hotter is infinately better. Meaning, a COP of 6 is irrelevant, because when you achieve a hot enough temperature (like Defkalion claims), you can use the Carnot cycle to produce an infinate COP. Remember, using LENR, nickel is about half a million times as energy dense as oil, and you would be essencially converting nickel and hydrogen into lots and lots of electricity. Frankly, just heating your house and water, while great, is lame in contrast to an infinate COP producing the gold standard of all energy: electricity.

    By the way, Rossi ought to get into the desalination business ASAP, which is also a great use of his current LENR technology.

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  • VonMulert

    Screw heating my home with it. Im gonna buy one to heat my home brewery. The main expense for breweries (both home and commercial) is energy required to heat water for the beer or to make steam.

    • sapain

      now ur thinking, have a drink 4 me lol

    • Steve Robb

      Beer is good! Make your label “E-Cat Beer.”

  • daniel maris

    I think this version of the E cat is probably designed for those who live in the more notherly and colder latitudes.

  • sapain

    thought concept of one costing $600, i would take $6000, get 10 ecats, use the heat for yr round green housing, supply heating for domestic, use the ecat as a tax deduction to help pay for it and earn a living.
    excellent for wood working bussiness for shaping wood and domestic heating.
    excellent for laundry bussiness.
    etc. think home based bussines to increase volume of ecats and method to pay for it.

    • Alain

      for that price you have a 45kW hyperion.
      possible highes temp around 400C (maybe better now)
      COP 20-25…
      more complex maintenance, but simpler than piling devices…

      e-cat seems on another niche that hyperion.
      could be good for appartments…

      hyperion better for houses and farming/industry

      • Andrew Macleod

        I think there are more health and safety issues with DGT and their current product such as regulatory issues with compressed hydrogen in the home and gamma ray emmisions. I think that is why Rossi has take the ecat in the direction has.

        • dragon

          Yes. Having a tube full of hydrogen exploding in your house might be dangerous to your health. From what Rossi said, the E-Cat uses some kind of hydrogen solid reaction, so no tube. That in itself removes certification for safety.

          • Ged

            There’s a lot of these “hydrogen sponges” that have been invented recently, mostly through the research of hydrogen fuel cells for vehicles (many operate by releasing hydrogen upon heating). I remember quite a number of months ago, someone mentioning one such sponge to Rossi on his blog.

            Nanotech has brought us some great advances!

  • Dick smith

    All very simple. Purchase a 1KW unit and take it to one of the organizations shown on my website. If they say it works and you are first you can come to an arrangement to share most of the $1 million.
    Great little earner. Keep me posted on if you can get one of the organizations to cooperate or come up with a name that will!

    • daniel maris

      Dick – You said it: “little earner” – why be detoured into a series of demanding tests promoted by someone who calls you a scammer?

      Would you be happy about accepting a lie detector test promoted by someone who states your business practices are unethical,even if a million dollars was on offer?

      • LenrMan

        Daniel Maris

        Why would somone not want to publicise their LENR device ?

        Am mystified by this ?

        LM

        • daniel maris

          LM

          Did Steve Jobs never keep his products hidden until they were ready for market?

          Yes.

          Have Toyota offered up their new advanced electric battery for public testing?

          No.

          If you have a good workable device your product will be worth billions, not millions, so why jeopardise your intellectual property (since any testing outside your organisation means secret operational details can be leaked to be potential competitors)?

          The time will come for publicising the device, but at a time of your choosing, when there are products available to be sold and in a way that drowns out the noise of those shouting “scam”.

        • Lumen

          I know, when you win the lottery, just send me your ticket and I will verify it is real for you! OK

    • the snake

      The catch is, the process is depleting H. It’s some reaction not exactly understood that produces H2 out of H. It was discovered by Blacklight, who demonstrated heat bursts. In the video of Defkalion they had a big H tank connected to the device.

      • Ged

        H2 (molecular hydrogen) is also commonly called hydrogen gas; there’s nothing mysterious about it! It’s the most common form we find hydrogen in–the energetically favored form in nature.

        And we sure do know very well how monoatomic H (which are very rare in a non ionized state) reacts with another H to form H2 gas.

  • Steve Robb

    the frequency generator thingy was probably a red herring.

  • http://nuvolesenzafiltro.blogspot.com andrea.b

    Please, do not be afraid to use the correct units of measure: in “kWh” the “h” is still free.
    Power = kW
    Quantity of energy = kWh
    Keep up the revolution!

  • Robert Mockan

    How can people ask all these questions and not the essential one?

    DOES THE ECAT GENERATE THERMAL POWER WITH NO INPUT DURING SELF SUSTAIN PHASE? And if so, HOW MUCH FOR WHAT LENGTH OF TIME?

    • dragon

      That’s a good question. But I will answer with another question. Does it really matters what Rossi or anybody here or there is answering about E-CAT?
      Only after we buy one we will know factual all the details about it. The reason for this is simple: this is a completely new technology that we don’t know anything about it. This is alien stuff.
      Do you really believe what the alien has to say about it, or you want to test it and then test it some more until you get all the answers that you seek?

      • Robert Mockan

        Testing myself would do it for me. I would also like to know is that 1.2 KW average 24/7 per E-Cat, or for both of them. If per one then both buggers would draw 2.4 electrical KW total 24 hours per day? Lol! That adds up to 21 megawatts per year! Talk about power hogs!

        • http://nuvolesenzafiltro.blogspot.com andrea.b

          Do u keep the heating up all year round?

          • Robert Mockan

            No, but if I did it would be much more cost effective to conserve by insulating.
            My problem in Arizona was too hot for most of the year anyway.

          • sapain

            robert, in the desert they can make ice, use a solar chimmey and cooling effect of ground and or night temp.

    • AstralProjectee

      As far as I can remember there is the electricity from the frequency generator and maybe electronics. But that amount is very little compared to the COP output.

      Peace!

      • Robert Mockan

        That would mean the average power into the E-Cat is being used to keep the reactor at the operating temperature, since it will be radiating heat at 400 deg C plus? But if the E-Cat has a COP of 6 then why does it need electrical input power to keep the internal temperature up? All that electricity going into it must be used for something more than a frequency generator and electronics? Unless the frequency generator is putting out a kilowatt? But that would not be a small frequency generator. That would be kilowatt power amplifer! If anything Rossi answers are even more puzzling that what he has said before!

        • Sparks

          Yes, the growing confusion (as opposed to clarification) as Rossi releases information in stages is a red flag. Things are not adding up. The greatly increased cost per watt of the 1 MW unit, relative to the 10 kW unit, does not make sense either.

  • K

    So, why are people buying those expensive heat-pumps with COP’s of 3 to 4 at best ?

  • http://nuvolesenzafiltro.blogspot.com andrea.b

    Hi guys. I am not a reseller of this company, but please note that Hitachi sx8 has a cop of 6.36 when heating.
    Note: 6.36 > 6.
    This means, 1,8 kW ele => 11,45 kW heat
    Also, it can provide cooling.
    Also, it filters and purifies the air.
    Also, no nickel no hydrogen and no peer to peer review needed…..
    I know, u looking 4 the thrill, a heat pump maybe doesn’t have it ;-)
    Enjoy your rush…

    • dragon

      Can Hitachi sx8 technology, if improved upon, virtually change the world? If the answer is no, then please don’t post anymore about it… or ever.

      • http://nuvolesenzafiltro.blogspot.com andrea.b

        Well, any ‘dream’ can ‘virtually’ change the world, and I know that believing in wonderful things is very important to carry on.
        Still, my point remains: can a new technology, admitting it works and is reliable, change the world if the performances it gives are so similar to well proven over-the-counter equipment’s?
        Admitting it works, is this a major improvement? How?

        • dragon

          If this technology really works, then we will not use it just for heating your house or even make cheap electricity. If this really works we will learn how to make all kinds of material transmutations in real time. Not only changing lead to gold, but changing all kinds of material in real time depending on the input we give to the material.
          Think about it a world with too much gold? Change #1.

          Change # 2 is we are going of this rock (planet) because the fuel is more than 50% of any rocket-ship. So once you build cheap space stations and travel cheap to planets all political life that is now depending on Earth resources will change.

          Change# 3. Once we understand what exactly is happening at the quantical level around LEN-Reactions then we can even go beyond our normal material interactions with the environment – sky is the limit.
          All this will be done if we put billions of dollars in LENR. E-Cat can be the start of that research field.

          I just showed you 3 major changes that Hitachi sx8 technology will not do but E-Cat will.

          • http://nuvolesenzafiltro.blogspot.com andrea.b

            Hi,
            #1 gold from lead, it is a joke, right? Hilarious.
            #2 how is the e-cat a saving? 1 over 6 parts of energy u need from electricity, albeit from oil or nuclear or whatever. And some nickel and hydrogen. The heat pump: the same but without nickel and hydrogen.
            #3 I agree with u, the sky is the limit, dreams are very important in life…
            cheers!
            Andrea

          • MK

            If you can really generate the needed Neutrons, Yes , then transmutations are feasibly. BUT: Going heavier than iron needs energy added…. So gold will be still “expensive”. But the rare earths (super magnets) would be in range.

            MK

          • Tom

            I don’t know about transmutation except that it’s definitely possible from a nuclear device. No joke. Might not be lead to gold but something more useful.

            To my understanding, when the electricity generator is released, you have several ecats to charge the reactions and excess electricity for everything else.

            The thing I’m most intrigued about is how space travel could benefit from LENR. Most of the weight on todays rockets are fuel. If the fuel was switched for nickel and hydrogen, the cost of reaching orbit could be affordable for more people. Then also interplanetary travel cost would be minimal. Not to mention the reduced cost of research using free energy.

          • sapain

            yes, one transmution comes to mind, helium-for lighter than air transportation. noble gas applications.

        • Steve Robb

          Even if the total cost of the e-cat vs heat pump are the same, we have not included the cost of the pollution the conventional energy source creates. Once the e-cat appears the subsidies to all those established industries need to be stopped and taxes on carbon dioxide applied. I am sure that once these devices appear on the shelves Congress in it’s infinite stupidity will become interested in funding research.

      • Wes Moore

        Dragon .. are you sure about the 6.36 COP ? I think you will find the COP varies greatly with ambient conditions.. to say an air to air heat pump has a COP of 6 when in is 70F outside will not impress anyone.. the COP would be about 1.5 at -15F and 3 at 20F and so on

    • James Pelsor

      Try to get that 6.36 COP when it’s less than 20 degrees outdoors. LOL Read your manual’s details.

    • Lumen

      How well does it perform in self sustain mode?
      In theory, if you were heating a pool with an e-cat, you could start it heating and it would self sustain for six months trying to heat the water before the fuel is consumed.

  • Frank

    The current eCat needs electricity to start the heat output from the H-Ni reaction. The ‘startup’ and sustaining heat could be generated from burning gas or oil. The eCat mechanism would be more complicated. But this version of eCat sure would extend the burn time for a tank of gas or oil!

    • joe

      Did not think you could power the future of power on this planet with gas or oil. Do you think coal would work as well as that is real cheap around here? Lots of coal and an e-cat and i will be set.

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    Since we’re into numbers today. Take a look at this slideshow…

    http://www.slideshare.net/RadixPowerandEnergy/radix-customer-presentation

    Says there are 350,000 diesel generators in the world that produce between 1-10MW of power each.

    If Rossi is the businessman that he says he is, and the market for 1MW products is so big, why is he wasting his time on 10KW home units?

    • Ged

      Can you fit a shipping container in an apartment? Even my home land couldn’t fit one in my city.

      Think about sizes, as well as ease for maintenance. Home users aren’t going to want to service a 1 MW plant full of 52 e-cats. Nor does the average home have need for 1 MW… it’d be an incredible waste of money and resource and space.

      • Phil-UK

        I think your missing the point Charles is making. He’s not suggesting that people try to fit a 1MW E-Cat in their home. He’s saying from a business point of view, that the market for 1MW units is so huge, then why bother going for the 10KW domestic unit market.

  • dragon

    I just made my business plan on this: I will be the first to buy an E-CAT, then I will send it immediately to Dick for 1 million $. Easy money… :-)

    • Ged

      Haha, brilliant. But you don’t even need to send it; just tell him you’ll give him a demonstration. Easy million and you get to keep your e-cat for heating, now that’s a deal.

  • http://yourmobilesite.net Your Mobile Site

    1.2 * 24 = 28.8 kW per day?

    Our daily usage is 14 kW.

    An eCat would effectively double my energy usage if I understand this correctly.

    With prices like these, how is the eCat a revolution for consumers in any way?

    • dragon

      It will be a revolution once E-cat produces energy. Just producing some heat is never a “revolution”.
      But once E-cat gets attention from Main-street than the revolution is on and electricity production will be next.
      THEN … you will run with both hands to the stores for your Electricity-E-CAT device.

    • Sparks

      Frank, you called it right — my calculator is already smoking.

      The US national cost of 28 kWh of electricity is $3.08 (at $0.11 per kWh average). So during winter months, it would cost about $92 / month to heat your home with this unit. In California electricity is a lot more expensive (at least 2x, even 3x if you’re a heavy user) so a residential e-cat heater won’t make sense there, as it can’t compete with natural gas. On the other hand, in colder states, Minnesota for example, a home e-cat may make a lot of sense, and certainly it will eventually as fossil fuel costs go up in the future.

      All this assumes Rossi’s numbers are accurate. I am a little concerned, when he says “average” power draw, I think he means that the unit will require 1.2 kW steady input 24/7 if you don’t want it to “go out” and require a restart. So during the winter months, you probably need to keep it drawing 1.2 kW at all times — meaning, in essence, that it has a 1.2 kW “pilot light” that must be kept “lit” during heating season.

      Overall, the home e-cat is not sounding like a game-changer cost-wise for the consumer in the near-term. But I remain more concerned about the claimed timeline to mass production, which I still expect to be many years out (I’m thinking 5 years to mass availability).

      • Ged

        Consider that in the midwest my heating bill during the winter can hit up to $300 on natural gas… and it does seem pretty cost effective for me. If the e-cat can also work for air conditioning (as has been hinted), then an average 92 a month would be much cheaper per year than what I experience. This is only for 1400 square feet, and I don’t remember the footage an E-cat is supposedly able to heat.

        • Sparks

          Depends where you live. New Jersey, for example, has high electric rates much like California, and there, you’re better off cost-wise heating with natural gas than with e-cat, due to the 28 kWh consumption per-day of the home e-cat unit’s “pilot light”.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        When someone demonstrates that they can control the LENR reactions billions of dollars will be spent on improving the process and possibly new physics will be discovered such as the QRT.

        I am sure this will be like the first generation of computers, when a 32kb memory was viewed as a lot. Give it a decade.

        • Colin Connaughton

          There is a lot of speculation about what might or is going to happen. I have to smile… jam tomorrow.

          When the film ’2001 A Space Odyssey’ came out the 2001 was taken to be the year of it all happening. Man had colonized the moon. It’s 2012 now, and are we anywhere near colonizing the moon? No.

          And as I wrote before, I’m still waiting for the millenium bug to kick in!

      • sapain

        there r 10`s of thousands of people living in far north communities who pay $8/gal, also food is expensive to ship, ecat would be benefical to them right off the hop. greenhouses open the door to lower food costs.

    • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

      Rossi’s bull doesn’t make any sense. So don’t try to make heads or tails of it. You’ll just get confused.

      If his 1MW in a shipping container works, you have lots and lots of safe and clean electricity for next to free. Everyone can then go out and replace their 30 gallon gas or propane heaters (standard for 1 family homes) with 100 gallon electric heaters. Rossi then becomes so rich from 1MW sales that he doesn’t need anymore money.

      So why is he even pursuing this 10KW home unit business? Simple. He built this mountain of bull and it falls apart when logic or scrutiny is applied.

      • dragon

        Frankly, I would like to see the E-Cat out just as a proof of concept for LENR. I don’t care about if it really useful at this point or if it gets your energy bill down.

        It will be a TECHNOLOGICAL MARVEL just the fact that it gets 6 months of useful energy out of a piece of nickel. Don’t you think so?

        • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

          Well said. Will surely account for a few billion dollars worth of new research anyways.

      • Ged

        How many of us have room for a shipping container? I sure don’t.

        The home units make a ton of sense, as they are a little bigger than a laptop supposedly, and thus easily mobile and easy to store.

        I agree with Dragon above–the real utility will be when the E-cat can generate electricity.

      • Carmania

        Fail – The 1MW unit is giving heat, not electricity.

    • Roger Bird

      Obviously you are not understanding it correctly.

      • Sparks

        … sorry, you seem to have cut out. What were you going to say?

    • Robert Mockan

      I would say you forgot to factor in the reduced electrical power needed for home and water heating because of the COP=6 multiplier, except it is not clear from the answers Rossi gave how low you can turn the E-Cat down before it goes off completely. Obviously if it uses 1.2 electrical KW average 24/7 per year to stay “lite” it may not be cost effective in your situation. Also, unless the thermal output is a linear function of the input power, and COP=6 always applies, then without more operating information we still do not have enough to make satisfactory calculations.

      • Sparks

        Actually I did factor in the difference, basically, trading off my current monthly natural gas costs versus the monthly electrical cost of keeping the e-cat “lit” each month during the winter. It didn’t work out favorably for e-cat. And our home water heater (also nat gas) is extremely inexpensive, about $12 per month, so it would not be worth the plumbing effort to convert that part over to e-cat.

        • daniel maris

          Where do you live? Florida? LOL