Rossi: Siemens AG Helping with Leonardo Corp. With Efficient Electricity Generation from E-Cat

I spent an hour this afternoon speaking with Andrea Rossi on the telephone. I had intended in publishing my interview as an audio file, but unfortunately, and embarrassingly for me, my phone recording program failed. I did, however take written notes, so in place of the recording I will report here the key points that Rossi made during the interview on various topics we discussed. My apologies to E-Cat World Readers in failing to provide the full contents of the interview.

The Investor’s Trust

Rossi explained that the investors in the trust did not wish to have their identities made public. He did acknowledge that as CEO of Leonardo Corporation while he is still in a position to make decisions, he is accountable now to a new entity, and that every day he has to prove his merit as a CEO.

Leonardo now has the funds to meet current needs. The design and testing of the E-Cat are complete and now the focus is on building the production line for the factory. They are currently building only one factory in the United States– location is unnamed. I asked if there were plans to build factories in other countries, but he said that they are planning for US manufacturing plants only.

Rossi said that currently there are around 50 people working on his team, and that when the plant is completed, Leonardo Corp will employ between 50 and 100 people.

1 MW E-Cat Plant

Rossi is very pleased with the plant now. He said they have solved all the problems they needed to take care of and they are about two weeks away from shipping it. He also said that the E-Cat module used in the plant has been redesigned. I asked where the product would be shipped to, but he would not say — the military entity is secret, and if he named the destination it would give a clue about who the customer is. Once the first plant is delivered, work will start on the next eleven plants.

The cost for the 1 MW plant is $1.5 million USD, and they are currently taking orders. There will be a four month wait from the time of order to the time of delivery. Plants can be shipped all over the world.

Electrical Production

Rossi reported on what he considered a significant breakthrough in the area of electrical production. He said that just a few days ago Siemens AG (German engineering firm) were with him in his Bologna factory and they demonstrated a turbine that could produce electricity at 30 per cent efficiency from a steam temperature of 251 C. This is much lower than the 550 C steam temperatures that are required in conventional electrical generation. Rossi said that the E-Cat becomes unstable when working at high temperatures. He said that because of this breakthrough he feels like electrical production from the 1 MW plants could take place sooner than expected. Electricity production from the small E-Cats will still take some time according to Rossi.

Siemens is one of the largest engineering companies in the world, and Rossi mentioned that Leonardo corporation is getting more attention from people in the industrial sector.

National Instruments

Rossi said that he had been very pleased with the work that National Instruments had done with him, and was very impressed with the people he had worked with, but because the first 1 MW customer was already working with another company, and because there were some timing issues, they decide to go with the other customer. Rossi is confident that they will work with NI in the future.

Domestic E-Cats

Design and testing of the domestic E-Cat is now complete, and the focus is now on the robotized production line in the US factory. So far, Rossi said they have not come up against any obstacles, and work is on schedule. Rossi hopes to start selling products this winter (when it is cold in the Northern Hemisphere), but allows that it is possible that delays could push that back to 16-18 months from now.

Rossi was pleased to be able to say that they have finalized the design and testing of the 10 kW E-cat units. He said that he didn’t want to just produce a metal box — being Italian, he wanted it to have some style. He is pleased with the final desing. I asked if any pictures were available, the answer was not yet. Rossi said the plan was to release the pictures in the Autumn of this year when they begin taking orders.

Rossi also said that he expects in the Autumn to publish is theory on the operation of the E-Cat reaction.

I asked whether there would be a marketing campaign involved at this time. Rossi said that there would be — but the extent of it would depend on how much money was available since advertising was very expensive. He did say that E-Cats would be on display in various cities when the marketing campaign starts.

The final size of these units will be 12 x 12 x 4 inches, and the weight will be 20 lb. A special synthetic insulating material surrounds each reactor to ensure maximum efficiency. There will not be any pictures of the unit released until the fall when he starts accepting orders.

Rossi emphasized that the 10 kW units are designed to be added on to existing heating systems, not to replace them. It will be an appendage that can be used to provide heat to whatever system already exists in homes, allowing users to save on their current sources of fuel. The heat output of these units will be between 40 and 80 degrees C. They will be able to provide home heat and hot water. These units will have fully automatic controls — the customer is not able to modify its operations; Rossi said a COP of 6 is guaranteed.

The units will cost between $600 and $900 per unit, a price that he feels will discourage anyone from going into competition with similar units that are based on reverse engineering of his products. Production is not planned outside the US because the small size of these units makes it fairly efficient to ship all over the world. Customs and shipping costs could make these units up to 20 percent more expensive outside the US.

Rossi reckons that the price of the E-Cat will be so low that no one, even manufacturers in Asia, will be able to compete with the products Leonardo will manufacture in the US.

I asked Rossi whether he thought any competitors were infringing on his intellectual property. While Rossi continued his policy of not commenting on his competitors he did say that his attorneys are aware of what competitors are doing and would take any actions they feel are necessary.


Safety certification is has been going on with Underwriters Laboratories for three months, and Rossi expects it to go on for some more months. Both UL and Leonardo are under NDA so Rossi wouldn’t comment further about the process.


Rossi expects that it will take upwards of five years for the patent to be finally granted. He said his patent attorneys are in dialogue with the US patent office and information is passing back and forth between Leonardo and the USPO.

Rossi’s Health

Rossi said that he has been blessed by God with good health and a strong constitution which allows him to keep up a vigorous work schedule. He typically works 16 hours per day, including some night work, and gets by on 4-5 hours of sleep per day.

These are the main points that were made in our conversation according to my notes and memory.

Frank Acland

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  • LS

    good article! nevermind the recording “i canta understanding this anyway”.
    just kidding, but really Ive been thinking the holdup is in the mechanism of controlling the reaction.Also I am glad to hear Mr. Rossi’s health is good.

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  • Noticias de fusion fria en espanol.

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  • Joe Heeney

    There are obvious problems with Rossie’s numbers.

    The 10 mW model is promised to have cop 6 efficiency.

    Does this mean it will require almost 2 mW to power it? The power of 20 ~ 100 watt light bulbs?

    I recall reading somewhere it would only require 200 watts to run the controls system and be self sustaining.

    If its cop 6 and 200 Watt, that would make the 10 mW E-Cat only about 1.1 mW output. This is a far less appealing output for the dollar.

    I would like to see some clarification for these inconsistencies.

    • Colin Connaughton

      Sorry but I’m a bit confused by your style.

      In my understanding mW is a milliwatt = 1/1000 watt. MW would be megawatt = 1,000,000 watts, & kW = kilowatt = 1,000 watt. I thought that was international convention, but I have been out of the scientific world for a while so it could have changed.

  • Thoreau

    RGCheek is right, LENR is a FACT. E-cat and similar devices could be the answer to the world’s dependence on oil, waste dumping & production pollution.

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  • RGCheek

    LENR is practically a known fact now, the only real question is whether it can be harnessed to do anything useful and whether Rossi and Defkalion are legit.

    So far I am encouraged to see the progress that has gone on, but we have a lot of competitor astroturfing going on trying to bscure the known facts about LENR technology. Fortunately most of them seem to be fairly stupid and dont really put a very strong case and so are most often ignored. For example, some of these loopy people say that the e-cat is the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. Maybe they are trying to make a joke, but really, they just make themselves look stupid as nuclear reactions produce heat and are not perpetual motion machines at all.

    I hope an dpray Rossi and Defkaliona re correct, but I will not part with a dime of my money till I personally see results.

  • Dyou Terium

    It’s very sad to see so many science enthusiasts being misled by Rossi.

    • Rockyspoon

      It is even sadder to see someone make such a comment that has no clue what they’re saying!

      But everybody has their own level of investigative objectives. I’m not shaken one bit by your analysis.

  • I have learned that translations of Rossi’s broken English can create more questions than answers. Earlier, the claim was that the household ECat would replace thew water heater but now it’s a PC-sized device that would be added to it, and its ability to produce electricity has been delayed for years. Ib fact, if anything goes wrong, it will all be delayed for years. I’ve got my fingers crossed that it will all work out.

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    People of Siemens AG have a look at (lapsed) Belgian Patents with publication numbers BE102780, BE1002781 and BE1003296 relating to “cold fusion” LANR in gas phase. English texts published on E-Cat Site under title Belgian LANR Patents. Dr. Mitchell Swartz has received the contents. Texts of the original documents available through ESPACENET Advanced Search. First document has been postponed from publication for 2 years by the Belgian Ministry of Defense. Jan.

    • Steve Robb

      “First document has been postponed from publication for 2 years by the Belgian Ministry of Defense.”

      Whenever I hear something like that I feel sick. On the one hand they say it does not exist but on the other hand they want to keep it hidden.

  • tom h

    “Tests with the presence of high level Government officials have been concluded. Opinions and results were very positive.

    Announcements will be made upon mutual agreements, at a time yet to be defined.

    Tests continue with international Authorities in the coming weeks.


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  • Jim

    I keep thinking that if e-Cat is real, then LENR is real, and then LENR plus the full force of contemporary materials science and high tech venture capital would produce devices that would make e-Cat look like a vacuum tube compared to an quantum dot. If LENR is real, and Rossi can produce a reliable COP of 6 in something the size of a laptop with HIS science and economic resources, why should we not expect devices that have 10x more power in -10x less size within several years? If Rossi is real, he’s not competing with Chinese manufacturers, he’s competing with Big Fast Money teamed with the biggest scientific egos on the planet. If he’s real, I hope he’s got a good cash out plan…

    • sapain

      yes, many twists and turns in the lenr plot, low cop for lenr will only climb higher. before it can climb it`s got to crawl.

    • Brian

      Well said.
      My thinking is: If LENR is real, then everybody in the field has been hitting a brick wall for the last 10 years.

      But now we have Rossi and he goes from experiment to household e-cat in something like 6 months. (6 months ago he was in the lab, now he says he’s got the design ready for production).

      So Rossi succeeds in producing an actual device in 6 months, where everyone else has failed to even reproduce results in the lab for the last 10 years.

      I don’t want to sound overly negative, but does this not sound ‘too good to be true’?

    • Steve Robb

      Very true and reasonable perspective. One thing only, I hope they employ scientific minds rather than egos.

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  • Jack

    This article shows how professionally conducted PR can help how a project is percieved. Leonardo board of investors should really spend couple hundred USD on pro journalists and not let Mr. Rossi – inspite of his engineering qualities – speak loosely in his posts. Well conducted PR can make mainstream media catch on the topic and that’s advertising for free comparing to what Mr. Rossi said is very expensive. Don’t get me wrong. Siemens AG is said to be the largest employer on Earth. Connection to Siemens might not prove anything yet, since they do what they get paid for, but sounds pretty good anyway.

    • Stan

      This guy Rossi is typical Italian engineer,not practical at all.Why to build a factory when you can rent one for next to nothing.Hundreds in my town are empty.Same thing with this automation, not cheap.I am mechanical engineer with 30 years experience in automation & looks like this device is so simple that one simple dial machine with few welding stations would do the trick.Probably $300000 machine with 20sec cycle time per e-cat.

      • Steve Robb

        He probably is using an empty box near his home and filling it with the tools needed for the e-cat. You are correct, no need to build a new box.

        • edog


    • This is an astute observation. A lot of misinformation could have been avoided if the PR was professionally handled. My newspaper, The American Reporter, has had front-page articles on this technology running at the top of our page for three or four months to help Rossi build awareness, but I have to take them down sooner or later.

  • Grauber

    SIEMENS AG should provide all facettes of the ecat and maybe also support the distribution to the european market.

    A revolution needs a big name –

    In this horrible times, when ressouces are becoming the reason for wars, the ecat is one solution for peace.

    God bless you, Mr Rossi, take care.

  • Sanjeev

    Mainstream talk. But a good and fair article.

    • sapain

      nice graphics.

    • Ged

      That was an excellent article. Thanks for sharing!

    • daniel maris

      Not bad as these things go but how could they have ignored the fact that NASA and Zawodny had been granted an LENR patent by the US patent office? What an incredible omission!

      • Sanjeev

        Probably patents have lost their reputation. Just like Nobel prize.

        Nowadays a patent is only a formality, a legal activity and an academic routine. It adds very little scientific value to any claim.

        The value comes from peer reviews and replications. And ultimately a working embodiment.

        May be the wired author does not know that there is a patent. If you read it there are many inaccuracies and omissions. Krivit posted there to correct something.

        Thats why I wrote a comment a few days ago here, that an average Ecat world reader knows more about Ecat and LENR than any high ranking mainstreamer.

  • michel

    How can he produce 10kw of steam with his 12x12x4 black box when you look at the video below and there is a only a light fume of steam coming out of the hose?

    Sorry if it has been talked about somewhere here… I could not find anything on it.

    Thank you

    • Steve Robb

      Rossi drained the condensed water from the hose just prior to the video. That means two things. First there will be no condensed water bubbling from the hose and the steam condensing inside the hose is being reduced in volume by a factor of 1600 as heat is lost along the length of the tube and the water transitions from saturated steam to saturated water. Actually there is an issue with that experiment in that the steam quality exiting from the e-cat was not accurately measured and there may have been some water entrained in the stream of vapor exiting the system. My engineering experience tell me that the quality was as low as 80% gas, 20% liquid. The sounds coming from the drain end of the hose suggests to me that a large fraction of that 80% steam was further condensed to liquid and so the flow rate is approaching that of the input pump rate of 0.7 kg/min. I believe the exit hose was 2 cm and through a simple calc I won’t repeat here the speed of water exiting from that hose if completely condensed would be 3.7 cm/s

      Of course if the water exiting was not condensed at all the steam, having a volume 1600 times that of water at that temp would be 1600 X 3.7 = 5920 cm/s or 59 m/s , so stand back! The water exiting was partly condensed water part steam but I believe the truth of the matter lies closer to the lower rate. I don’t want to spend too much more time with a heat transfer analysis of the drain hose but will say I saw one that was obviously fraudulent as it was very clear that the analysts selected of the parameters in such a way to prove his intent to show Rossi a fraud. I guess some people believe that the end justifies the means.

      • michel

        Thank you for the nice explanation.
        Im not an engineer and I dont understand all of it.
        If Rossi drained the condensed water before the video clip, the steam that I see coming out of the hose is not the fair amount?
        Do you know if this experiment proved that Rossi could make 10kh of heat with the reactor? thanks

  • sapain

    i can c a change in the way things r done on a daily.
    steam baths replace showering.
    more cooking by more steaming.
    steam cleaning of household items.