Rossi Responds to Australian E-Cat Critique

Last month we reported how Dick Smith, an Australian entrepreneur and member of the Australian Skeptics group had promised to give $200,000 to the Byron New Energy Charitable Trust if he can be convinced that the E-Cat was a valid technology. The Sydney Morning Herald reported that Andrea Rossi was to appear via Skype to discuss his technology at a community meeting in Mullumbimby, New South Wales. Apparently the Skype hookup did not take place. Smith had assigned Ian Bryce, an aerospace engineer to investigate Rossi’s technology, and Bryce remains unconvinced about the E-Cat. Bryce is now hypothesizing that a faulty wiring connection could have been the cause for an apparent energy gain in the E-Cat demonstration last October.

When this critique was brought to Andrea Rossi’s attention on his Journal of Nuclear Physics blog, he responded with a trademark all-caps response:

Thank you for your comment, because it gives me the chance to make clear that:
1- I NEVER APPROACHED THIS DICK SMITH, I DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHO IS HE.
2- HIS REMARKS ARE SIMPLY RIDICULOUS, JUST GO TO CHECK ALL THE REPORTS MADE ON OUR TESTS, JUST GO TO NYTEKNIK TO READ ALL OUR TESTS, IN PARTICULAR THE OCT 6TH TEST AND YOU WILL SEE THAT ALL THE WIRING HAS BEEN CHECKED. ALL THESE WANNABE VALIDATORS SIMPLY INSULT THE SCIENTISTS WHO MADE THE TESTS, LIKE THEY COULD BE SO NAIF NOT TO CHECK PROPERLY ALL THE WIRING CONNECTIONS. BY THE WAY: THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS BEEN MEASURED NOT ONLY AT THE WIRES TO THE PLUG (ALL OF THEM, WIRE BY WIRE), BUT ALSO TO ALL THE CABLES CONNECTED INSIDE THE E-CAT !!!!
ALSO THE PLUG ( THE ONLY ONE USED) HAS BEEN DETECTED, TO CHECK THAT THERE WERE NOT ANOMALIES!!!
I REMEMBER THAT THE 6TH OCTOBER TEST HAS BEEN ATTENDED FROM SCIENTISTS FROM ALL THE WORLD, AND THAT THE 28TH OCTOBER TEST HAD BEEN MADE INDIPENDENTLY AND WITH INDIPENDENT INSTRUMENTATION BY A COLONEL ENGINEER OF AN ARMY AND THAT HE, USUALLY, WITH 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, TESTS THERMODYNAMIC PLANTS AND MISSILES HEADS OF NUCLEAR CARRIERS.
3- I DO NOT THINK THIS GUY IS A SNAKE, I THINK HE HAS BEEN MISINFORMED FROM SOME PERSON WHO SAID TO HIM STUPIDITIES.
4- WITHIN ONE YEAR WE WILL START TO SELL OUR E-CATS IN MASS, SO ALL THE SKEPTICS WILL BE ABLE TO BUY ONE AND TEST IT.
END OF DISCUSSIONS.
WARM REGARDS,
A.R.

Rossi says in point number four that the E-Cats will be for sale ‘within one year’ now — something he has hedged on until now. Until his machines are on the market and available for everyone to use and test, there will no doubt be plenty of theories put forward about why the E-Cat can’t be doing what is claimed. It is going to be a long year for the E-Cat watching public.

  • http://hallowmoday.weebly.com/?ref=blog Sharecash Survey Bypass

    always i used to read smaller articles or reviews that as well clear their motive, and that is also happening with this paragraph which I am reading at this time.

  • Paul Richards

    One serious issue no one seems to see is the most obvious. Con men generally have the front end sorted, smoke and mirrors is their stock in trade.

    Rossi hasn’t even got a student quality web site, let alone slick PR person vetting everything released. I have been around engineers all my life, they have a poor sense of aesthetic, don’t understand or interrelate well, dress badly and the forté lies in the practical. Rossi fits the criteria.

    We all expect the Steve Jobs slickness, and if we don’t get it everything is bogus.

    Personally I am keeping an open mind, not writing this off until it fails to sell in household form. After all how long did Edison take to get his filament for the incandescent light. Tesla had similar scepticism of his work, and by all right of fairness was the father of Electrical Engineering but died penniless.

    If Rossi does deserve to suffer for being a charlatan, time will prove it.

  • Steve Robb

    I see my post brought the Krivits out of the woodwork.

  • Ron

    We live in a time of rapid advancement, just read Kurzweil to get an idea. The Missouri University (USA)Research Reactor and physics, engineering and chemistry departments have just been given a grant to do research in exactly what process is happening in LENR. I don’t know if they will contact Rossi.

    It is hard to hide an input of 12KW worth of electrical power even if the wire gauge was big enough to handle and at 50A that would be a copper wire of 5.19mm (0.2″) in diameter. Not huge but good size with insulation added. A simple clamp-on current meter could be use to check for any anomaly.

    I would give Mr. Rossi and the scientists credit for doing it right. Note to Mr. Rossi: Please get a good English translator to write your responses. This will help your credibility and don’t use all caps which is like shouting. Thanks.

    • Anders

      Could it be that he actually uses 3-phase power? The voltage in europe is 400 volt phase-to-phase, and you normally wire one phase with neutral to wall outlets to get 220 volts.

      400 volt 3-phase gives how much power? Anyone???

      16 A x 400 V x sqrt(3) =11 kW

  • Steve Robb

    I hereby declare the coining of two new words:

    krivit, verb, to attack the idea or character of a person by many specious arguments while lying hidden behind a blog. Frequently the behavior has a puppet like character and the invective snake-like.

    Krivit, noun, person who does the above.

    Example: Ignore him, he’s just another Krivit.
    Example: His hissing, kriviting sound grates on my ears.

    • Jake

      Attacking Krivit won’t fill the void of the factual content regarding the e-Cat, and won’t erase AR past bad reputation.

      I suggest you open yourself for the possibility of AR being dishonest. If that is true (and he didn’t prove his honesty, although he should have the means, according to his claims), LENR will take it hard. Every legitimate searcher will suffer from his acts.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        By the way, there is a well known product in the US and the idea for the product was spawned while the inventor was doing time in prison. This product is on the shelves of most big-box home improvement stores. I doubt this product was ever subjected to peer review.

        • Steve Robb

          Ok, you’ve piqued my interest. What is the product?

        • McFiddle

          Whatever the product, it would’ve been subjected to review by the purchasers are these ‘big-box home improvement stores.’ Peer-review is typically reserved for matters of scientific interest.

      • Ged

        Or, he could be partially right and frustrated at the inconsistency, yet promise, of his own work. That explains the psychology to a T. Dishonesty does not.

        • Jake

          I’d buy such a scenario, although if that’s the case, we’re probably dealing with a non-story here.

          Small, random peaks were claimed to be measured for long years be many researchers. If he didn’t solve the control problem, he should be clear about what he -does- have.

          Until he comes clear, I believe no word of him.

      • Fisher

        I have followed this whole drama for the last year and I have wanted so badly to believe it but after hearing what NASA personnel had to say about their dealings with Rossi it’s just damn hard for me to keep writing off all of the BS as Rossi trying to protect himself. The guy needs to pony up with some facts, people.

        This is science, for crying out loud. And he wants to sell it to us so we can find out if it works?? There are so many ways he could run tests so as to make the whole thing more believable but he doesn’t. And, the majority of followers on these boards just keep making excuses, some of them highly complex, as to why it has to be a reality.

        Let the guy come to the table with his device and show that only a controlled amount of water is going in, measure the amount and quality of steam coming out, do it for a measured period of time which would exclude any possible known reactions and that there are no other connections that could be influencing the experiment! Drama over! No other secrets are revealed! Rossi is the hero of the world!

        Putting it into layman’s terms:
        What the f**k is so difficult about that?!!

        • Jake

          Well said.

          I summarize the story as follows:
          We have ultra-ordinary claims, from an infra-reputable person. Facts for supporting his claims were’t [resented, while his story contains many hard inconsistencies.

          Believing him shows strong desperation and hope, but no outcome of a rational thought.

          Sorry guys, as I see it, we’ll have to wait more for a clean, cheaper energy.

        • dsm

          Fisher

          What part of ‘buy one’ don’t you understand ??? – WTF is difficult about that !!!

          🙂

          Cheers

          Doug M

          • Fisher

            Doug,

            I have a bridge I’d like to sell ya. Never mind having a look at it first. I am a man of my word and I say, not only is it real but you can put a toll on it and make millions!

            And, I’m only asking 50 bucks for it. What do you say?

        • Roger Bird

          Fisher, from out perspective of starring into a computer screen, it is definitely not science. It may be psychology and epistemology and business and an number of things, but it is not science. Rossi and Defkalion (hopefully) and others are doing science. We are just trying to figure out what they are doing, if anything.

      • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

        Jake, fill your void. Check out this website: http://nickelpower.org/2011/12/30/replicators-as-if-december-30-2011/

        The case for cold fusion, the case for Nickel + Hydrogen cold fusion, the case for high grade cold fusion — none of these cases require any evidence from Rossi.

        Get past Rossi, look at all of the other evidence. The only void you will find is the void in your current knowledge.

        • Jake

          Don’t make too much assumptions; I’m familiar with the above.
          Still, the discussion is about -AR_ claims, and the lack of convincing evidence to support them.

          Attacking his criticizers, and pointing to other researches in the field, adds nothing to the factual body regarding his claims.

      • dsm

        Jake

        We are all able to work out for ourselves what to think of AR.

        Its the wealth of attitudes we hold that make debate interesting.

        I for example can’t see any fraud (what fraud ?) and I have seen more dishonesty from others than I have from Rossi. So based on my ability to judge characters Rossi comes out on the plus side at the moment. When someone posts the word ‘liar’ and doesn’t back it up with anything more than an emotional rant. I conclude they are simply lifes ‘flakes’ (10 cents short of the dollar – a sandwich short of a picnic – you name it).

        My attitude to Rossi may change but at this point in time can’t see why.

        Doug M

      • Roger Bird

        Jake, I agree. Although ALL us cheering squad members know that both Rossi and Defkalion have not yet proven their case, the general public and the media who both may be only slightly familiar with the situation will think that LENR is bogus if at least one of Rossi or Defkalion does not come through with a winner.

    • Sparks

      Leaving aside that I don’t agree with the idea of a personal attack, (nor have I gotten a negative impression of Mr. Krivit), your suggestion also leads to awkward utterances, for example, “Did you hear the latest krivit Krivit krivited?” Sounds too much like a frog.

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  • Brad Arnold

    “In order to hide 12.5 kilowatts of energy a minumum of 50 amps of current as 240 volts would have to flow through that ground wire as well as one of the others, it does take two wires to complete a circuit. 50 amps of current flowing through that small gauge of wire would make it glow and would be very easy to detect as it would melt the insulation on the wires and short back down the length of them to the plug leaving molten dripping plastic in its wake.”

    “The white man often scoffs at things he has never seen or does not understand.” -Master of Sinanju

    • Anders

      Hi!

      Could anyone please help me calculate this scenario:

      You supply 3-phase 400 volt to the e-cat thru 3 wires. This is called IT power grid, as is typically generated by a generator with a delta-configuration rather than a star-configuration (Norway and Albania uses this grid )

      How much current would you measure in one of Rossi’s power cables then, when you assume that he is using the normal live-neutral configuration?

  • Tony

    More Rossi below.

    I disagree with his reply; the chatters are important, misinformation is a very powerful tool.

    Bernie Koppenhofer
    February 12th, 2012 at 2:21 PM

    To the LENR community: The subtle and not so subtle attacks on LENR are going to continue and intensify by those who want to own it or kill it. The recent snakes articles are a good example, attacking those who are in the forefront of bringing LENR into wide acceptance and use. (Bushnell, Rossi, Zawodny) This is a delay it, delay it, delay it and then kill it or own it strategy. It will work unless this community fights back. This strategy is cynical if not evil, given all the lives LENR could save and improve if brought into use as fast as possible. We have one advantage over other technologies that have been delayed with the kill it or own it strategy: The internet. I suggest we fight back in the blogs and comment sections of articles about LENR and by letting our Federal Representatives know where we stand. Does anyone else have suggestions?
    Andrea Rossi
    February 12th, 2012 at 3:00 PM

    Dear Bernie Koppenhofer:
    You overevaluate by orders of magnitude the puppet snakes and their puppetteers, as well as you overevaluate by orders of magnitude the chatters. We are manufacturing a factory which will produce massively very cheap E-Cats. What the snakes say and write has no value at all, now: before our production of really working devices they had good play, because it was chatters against chatters. Now it is our facts against their chatters. The snakes have already changed tens of versions regarding their reasons, which means their reasons are inconsistent.
    Who will be able to make plants will have nothing to be afraid from the snakes. Who will not will abandone the scene. Times of mental bricolage are over.
    Warm Regards,
    A.R.

    • Dsm

      Tony

      Where did u get item 1 – I dashed over to JNP to find it but while I have seen item 2 could not locate item 1 – but it again tells me how big a challenge Rossi is facing.

      I sure hope enough smart people join in just to keep both sides honest. Thus far I have found the greatest distortions and lies to be from anti LENR & anti Rossi eCat people – plus Krivit – that sort of nudges me towards Rossi who I have not seen lie when it comes to matters I have direct involvement in. Sadly, some people who I once regarded as ‘heros’ have proven in my eyes, to be liars. That is a sad reality as one person in particular was someone I have trusted for years but in the past week he lied to me about a matter that went global in the press.

      My point here is that Rossi has in my eyes been more honest than many others In this field. The 1st time I saw him on a video my reaction was he speaks funny, he looks funny, he is a foreigner, but over time have concluded he speaks straight. What he says repeatedly stacks up.

      I still have no proof he will deliver, but as time passes am sure he will.

      Doug M

    • Dsm

      Tony
      I am going to repeat – please post links when quoting info like this – it is a PITB trying to find the source to validate the context.

      Quoting without links or clear refs can do harm.

      Thanks

      Doug M

      • Tony

        http://www.rossilivecat.com/

        Is the best place to read his blog from 🙂

        Trying to track comments is difficult, otherwise.

        • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

          Tony, this is not a full citation. To create a full citation from rossilivecat.com:
          > Find the relevant comment.
          > Click on the date/time stamp of the comment.
          > A window will open with that comment at the top, copy the “address” of that window from your browser.

        • dsm

          Tony

          Thanks – found it and also manged to post a message to Dr Rossi.

          Cheers

          D

  • dsm

    Two more links for Ian Bryce & Dick Smith. Any anyone else fascinated by LENR potential.

    The 1st link is audio & is a presentation by Randell Mills who is CEO of BlackLight Power – it is great to listen to him even if you don’t agree with his Hydrino Theory of energy creation. Mills is no simpleton by any means – google his history. The talk is from 2009 but still worth the time to listen.

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press%20Releases/BLP-Investor-Web-Presentation-Dec-2009-Audio.mp3

    The next talk is very inspiring & is by William Larsen (of the Widom-Larsen theory). He is great to listen to.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVRLcC21F14

    He covers a lot of ground & there are slides to follow. He says so many interesting things & touches on the research in Russia on biological transmutation.

    Enjoy

    Doug M

  • Andrew Macleod

    I think we will see more and more of this type of journalism comming. And it will only get worse. Lets just hope the ECat and Rossi can weather the storm.

    The fact that Rossi is so confident even in the face of another media smear campaign (like he faced with petroldragon) renews my confidence that the ECat is the real deal.

  • Aphantee

    I just feat that Rossi, with his groundbreaking E-Cat, might be “taken care of” by multinational energy giants before he is able to commercialize his revolutionary invention.

    • Aphantee

      sorry for the typo “feat”, which should be “fear”.

    • Tom

      Certainly a possibility. If that comes to pass, there should be enough “believers” mixed with enough scientists to learn the truth and convince humanity to do the right thing. If not, I will disown humanity.

      • tom h

        if that was to happen then you will not have to disown humanity as humanity is about to come face to face with a catastrophic energy crisis.

        I urge you all to read http://www.unicamp.br/fea/ortega/eco/traducao-DieOff.pdf
        I must stress though that this isnt for the faint hearted, i must also sadly to my regret stress that it is also not a hoax, it is a fact. The only thing that is not fact is the timing and maybe a few minor details of the aftermath.

        If you think the impending energy crisis that is about to knock a civilization side ways, is false i urge you to research properly (i researched for 3 months),i also urge you to look around the world today the high energy prices, the wars, the economic crisis that is not temporary but permanent and only going to get worse (this will be nothing like the 1930s we do not have ample cheap energy resources to save us this time).

        If you cant be bothered to read (although i highly recommend it)then watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMF1n9EgzU.

        I probably sound like a raving doomer mad man but i am only trying to get the message out to give people the best POSSIBLE chance of surviving the looming phenomenon known as Peak Oil. Once you realise that to our civilization oil is more than just a resource used to travel, and that it is the life bread, of everything we do and depend upon to survive from food to our economy you will realise the seriousness we are.

        If you care about yourself and families future then atleast spend a hour or so researching Peak Oil.

        • tom h

          I forget to say that i feel andrea rossis e-cat is our only hope. If he fails to deliver on his goals within the next year or so, then it will be too late.

  • dsm

    This link might help Dick Smith & Ian Bryce comprehend how Rossi’s eCat is feasible. It is a surprisingly straight forward explanation of how the nickel transmutes into copper plus a theoretical calculation of how much nickel should transmute if the eCat in question delivers a fixed output of energy for 6 months.

    http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=473#more-473

    Hope this helps some of us (it helped me) better follow the process.

    Cheers

    Doug M

  • daniel maris

    It may be a year before they are taken to market, but I hope we have sight of something well before then…I’ll be getting twitchy if we haven’t see the factory and prototypes of the product(s) by June of this year… Rossi’s claims will become somewhat incredible if we don’t have real signs by mid-year.

    Incidentally I would recommend to Rossi Space X’s approach (people were equally sceptical about Space X’s ability to launch rockets – look at them now). They’ve always given a very full account of product development.

    This isn’t a scam v. genuine argument. In this day and age it would be easy to photoshop factories, production lines and prototypes, even staff – no, it is about Rossi’s engagement with the public… I think he could do a whole lot more there.

    • dsm

      Daniel

      Why do you think Rossi needs to spend more of his time on keeping the public happy ? 🙂

      Rossi isn’t getting the public to build his factory

      Rossi didn’t get the public to come look at his eCat – he asked various select groups of eminent scholars to visit & an acceptable number of them said there was something more than a chemical action going on & every one of them said they would ‘love’ to see inside. Then Rossi demoed a big unit to a US customer. That was all Rossi needed to get the investment & support to start the factory.

      We all know Rossi won’t give an eCat to anyone to test. And *most* of us know why. Ask yourself where Dekfalion may have got their process from. I believe Rossi knows & that is why he flatly refuses to let them out of his sight.

      Rossi will keep the public happy when he can deliver cheap eCat units. Kissing babies before then does nothing but waste his precious time.

      Cheers

      Doug

    • dsm

      Above said with a big smile

      Meant to add a few at the bottom.

      Cheers Doug

  • sapain

    i hope ar didn`t pop a gasket after that one lol, he has lots of work to do.

  • dsm

    Two points worth clarifying re the parent story.

    The Rossi response was in reply to an article published where the journalist stated that Rossi had contacted Dick Smith (see below link 2) – I always understood that Rossi had not contacted Dick Smith as the original press story said otherwise (see link 1).

    The matter was put to Rossi & he said what is posted in the parent story.

    Original story involving Dick Smith …
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/mullumbimby-helping-to-save-world-20120112-1pxj2.html

    Untrue version of Dick Smith’s involvement …
    (go to section titled “Missed Connections”)
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46342612/ns/technology_and_science-science/

    I have further info that I won’t post here that makes it quite clear to me that the journalist in link 2, reported what they were told & did not miss hear the bit about who contacted who.

    My conclusion all along was that Rossi was the only one telling the truth in the matter of Mullumbimby. That sadly doesn’t say much for some folk on the other side of that fiasco.

    Doug M

  • Alan DeAngelis

    Is the E-Cat a scam or is it one of the few things in this world that isn’t a scam?

    • Alan DeAngelis

      P.S. I’m a big fan of AR. I was just thinking that the E-Cat is one of the few things in this world that isn’t a scam!

  • susu

    If some one is malicious and does not know how e-cat works, he has no right to attack Mr.Rossi.
    We all appreciate his work and effort.

    • dsm

      Again great to hear voices of moderation.

      When someone makes an emotional outburst (such as calling Rossi a Liar) they are inviting emotional responses & when that happens the debate sinks into the cesspit.

      I really do like Rossi’s stock answer to such attacks on him and his eCat “buy one” – when “when they are ready” – when is that – “in 1-2 years, hopefully in 1”.

      If they don’t work no one will buy them. If they do work they will sell like hot cakes.

      Simple

      Doug M

      • susu

        I suggest Mr. Rossi not to sell any c-cat machine to such kind of destructive and malicious of people.

    • daniel maris

      An interesting and intelligent question to which, unfortunately there is no answer as present.

  • William Peppers

    It Focardi and Rossi’s invention is a scam, then why is Dennis Bushnell and NASA working on it? Why would Bushnell put put a video on YouTube describing it as a game changer and the end of the fossil fuel era?

    • dsm

      William

      I think there is a misunderstanding (a not uncommon one but a very important one).

      Bushnell & Zawodny *were not* talking about Rossi’s eCat they were talking about LENR technology. There is a big difference in what you have interpreted vs what Bushnell & Zawodny are saying.

      Cheers

      Doug M

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Wiring? That is such a farce.

    Some people may be uninformed on this topic to really believe comments such as that.

    The truth is that Andrea Rossi has big claims on this subject but the real reasons people should accept Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) as a new breakthrough green technology is because it is a fact.

    LENR is not a farce. It is replicable. NASA and MIT have had success with LENR, and there are not only peer refviewed papers on the subject but oxford has published a peer reviewed book.

    It is like saying “fire is not hot” when critics deny LENR, and some of the moronic statements I see are ridiculous.

    Now LENR is very energetic and can produce excess temperatures too high to control in many cases. It can result in melt down of the materials involved.

    Andrea Rossi claims that he can control the temperature by keeping the temp down to a mild 130 degrees output. This is sad as it is not optimal for electrical conversion. It remains to be seen exacty what he is producing but a scam scenario seems unlikely.

    Do not forget Dr Andrea Rossi has vast experience in chemistry and has owned several chemical companies and a variety of patents. His work experience and education would allow him to command a 6 digit salary yet he has devoted 5-6 years on this one venture with little or no pay for the most of it. It seems pretty weird that someone would go to such an extreme to make a million or so and go sit on a beach. He has had a million or so many times in his life and did not choose that option yet.

    This technology is now being studied worldwide and has the potential to remove 600 million smog producing cars/trucks off the road within a decade. Would you drive your gas guzzler into a lake if you could by a car that could run on nickel dust.

    THIS TECHNOLOGY IS THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH SINCE FIRE.

    There is growing research in this and electrical generation is already possible from LENR according to non-AR sources.

    I think it is a shame that society would rather know what Madonna is wearing than a technology that will change the world.

    This is a green technology 1kg nickel = 200000 barrels of oil (minimum), with no waste.

    This will remove smog from the world, and could end “global warming”

    This technology could feed nations as desalinization will become too cheap to not feed the planet.

    Don’t judge based on Andrea Rossi. Look at what NASA/MIT or oxford has to say about LENR.

  • Tom Krieg

    Be civil, be patient, and thoughtful.

    Andre is following a proper path for product release in this age.

  • psi

    Hey Jake, not that its any of my business, but I’d be really careful right now if I were you, throwing around words like “liar.” You don’t know what Mr. Rossi is a liar any more than I do that he’s telling the truth– or at least doing his best to do so under very difficult circumstances, made more difficult by wild accusations assaulting his integrity. You might be right. I might be right. But your language is indecent and and self-damaging. Both public decency and self interest should oblige you to refrain from such language until such time as you can prove that Mr. Rossi is not, for example, building a plant in Florida. If that has not been confirmed in six months, I might have to switch sides. In the meantime, can we agree that reasonable people might have different interpretations of the e-cat phenomenon, and that Mr. Rossi is innocent until proven guilty?

    • dsm

      psi

      Such wise words and politely put.

      A good forum will always attract and promote differing viewpoints. Accusations against people like Rossi of fraud & lies are really just emotional outbursts that do nothing to further the debate. The POV is understandable but as you say, can be expressed in less emotional ways.

      Great to see thoughtful people standing up & being heard.

      Doug M

    • Steve Robb

      People throw the word fraud and liar about as if they mean nothing. Unfortunately with their overuse they will in the end come to be debased and to mean nothing. This is how the language and dialogue become degraded.

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  • Jake

    A liar furthers his lies.
    Had he had something, we’d had convincingly seen it already.

    • dsm

      Where ?

      Cheers

      D

    • Andrew Macleod

      When will we as humans be able to say we have seen everything and know all.

      Never! The hole only goes deeper and deeper. My advice to you Jake is don’t buy one of you think he is scamming. Stick with your current overpriced heating whatever it may be.

      • Jake

        I’d be so happy to buy one, only that it doesn’t exist.
        I believe AR is a hoaxer whose making only harm to this field, which might be a legitimate scientific one.
        Wait and see, if you can’t see it already.

        • Andrew Macleod

          Lenr will be legitimized. It’s no longer a question “Is it possible?”. Your only real argument is if Rossi has a working product.

    • Knighthawk

      It’s long past the time for Mr. Rossi to either put up or quietly shut up before he starts to give the whole field a bad name. I agree with you Jake, if he had something convincing we’d have seen it by now and capital would be flowing in from everywhere to get a piece of the action. None of that is happening which means he doesn’t have what he claims, or at the very least not yet.

    • Steve Robb

      There are none so blind as those who will not see.