Swartz and Hagelstein Publish Data in Response to Steven B. Krivit’s Reporting of JET Energy Cold Fusion

Cold Fusion Times (owned and operated by Mitchell Swartz) has produced a lengthy response to reporting by Steven B. Krivit of New Energy Times who has criticized Swartz for posting what he (Krivit) considers “misleading” information on a personal web site about the recent cold fusion demonstration at MIT.

The response states that Swartz and Hagelstein have decided to publish a portion of the data collected in the class in order to rebut the analysis of Krivit, including the two charts below.

JET Energy Chart 1
JET Energy Chart 2

Cold Fusion Times criticizes Krivit for what it considers to be very basic math errors. Krivit quoted a source on New Energy Times as saying that the temperature output increase in the experiment lasted only for about three minutes. According to Cold Fusion Times it “actually lasted circa [ 4 * (3592-2053)] seconds!!![over 102 minutes] That is much, much more than “three minutes”. . . Mr. Krivit is quantitatively off by 3420%”

The article includes a number of other areas of dispute with Krivit, accusing him of faulty analysis and of unfounded attacks on other researchers in the cold fusion field. The article concludes by saying “cold fusion is struggling to make its resurgence, driven by researchers who have worked their fingers to the bone at enormous expense. It does NOT need bullies trying to make a name for themselves by advocating a “theory”, they personally like and have been paid to push. Hard-working experimental cold fusioneers worldwide need real support and not Krivit’s version of reality founded on disingenuity. Steve Krivit ought to shape up.”

No doubt there will be a response from Steven Krivit, considering the serious accusations made about him in this article

  • Paul Z

    Krivit needs to removed from Cold Fusion Times, he has lost all credibility as a objective reporter someone is financing Cold Fusion Times, I am beginning to think it is Big Oil and Krivit is on a tit come where.

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  • Bernie Koppenhofer

    Please don’t confuse Mr. Krivit with facts, graphs and mathematical equations, you have to understand he has not taken Science 101 yet. (This is the truth read his bio)

    As far as the super skeptics are concerned, Rossi is on the right track, forget about demonstrations, build the damn things and sell them.

  • Roberto

    If I’m not wrong, I remember Krivit did not get into account output heat from the e-cat before self sustaining, as if that heat portion couldn’t already be used to begin warming up my house … Since that time I feel not confortable in reading his site.

  • Karl

    Who can take Mr Krivit seriously? I believe Rossi nailed him correctly as a snake. It becomes successively more obvious that his real mission is likely the one of a Trojan horse.
    http://world.std.com/~mica/DisingenuousKrivit20072.pdf

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  • sparks

    The plot itself at the top of this posting speaks volumes. It says that the LENR effect is working, but its power output periodically (3 times) drops off a cliff. At precisely each such cliff-drop, the green line (power input) takes an abrupt up-step, which then causes the normalized power output to gradually recover. Hence, this is illustrating that they are using abrupt power input up-steps as a sustainment strategy, to counter the periodic, catastrophic (in the mathematical sense) loss of power generation. I suspect this is the sort of sustainment problem Rossi is wrestling with as well.

  • http://www.neotreksoftware.com Allans Shura

    I don’t think any proof will convince the
    detractors.

    A stamp of approval from authorities does not
    mean the authorties are correct.

    For example thalidomide causing horrible defects in children was approved with full academic regalia.

    Vehicle overpasses in Montreal that were recently inspected by “qualified engineers” collaped shortly afterward.

    As was said with computers “garbage in garbage out”.

    • Frank

      You probably know, in mathematics you have ‘necessary conditions’ and ‘sufficient condition’ for a statement.
      A independent test of the e-cat is for some ‘hard-sceptics’ probably not a ‘sufficient condition’ to proof the e-cat, but it is a ‘necessary condition’ until you can get the ‘sufficient’ one (e.g your own test).
      But – as in mathematics – when the ‘necessary condition’ already fails, then you don’t need to bother yourself any longer to search for the ‘sufficient condition’

      • http://www.neotreksoftware.com Allans Shura

        Funny thing is Kervit can test at Defkalion but no test will be
        good enough numerous or complete
        for some individuals until these
        devices are actually put to
        productive public use.

        I would like that day to be sooner.

  • Jake

    Cold fusion gets hot.

    BTW, for all Krivit’s criticizers, I recommend you read his website and hear what he actually has to say.

    He’s not against LENT in any shape or form. He advocates what he believes is the right scientific approach to investigate the phenomena. Although I don’t understand the science fully, he seems to make a lot of sense.

    • Frank

      One of New Energy Times (and Krivits) mission is to investigate and report on the developments in new kinds of environmentally friendly energy sources.
      I appreciate that they do to some extend ‘investigative journalism’, not just ‘arm-chair’ journalism; not spread unexamined claims from all kind of questionable sources.
      Remember, he was the one who travelled to Bologna to see and investigate Rossi and ‘his invention’. – Not many other Journalists did that also.

      Of course, nobody is forced to agree to all or anything of what Mr. Krivits writes, but I like to get informed also from sources, which have a sceptical and critical view on ‘extraordinary claims’.
      I would dislike if I would – for news about ‘cold fusion or LENR, – have to rely just on sites like PESWIKI.com, or on mailing-lists where scepticals get banned from (you may call that also ‘censorship’).

    • dsm

      I started out 5 weeks ago learning all I could about LENR etc: – at 1st I thought Krivit was a LENR hero with by far the best site.

      Over time I became bothered by some of his posts that appeared to me to be quite attacking & in some of the cases I looked into, to be unfair (of him).

      After he published his proof videos of Rossi’s eCat failing, I concluded that Mr Krivit dislikes certain people in the LENR community and has no reservation about attacking in quite strident terms, those he doesn’t like.

      Whilst at 1st I though of him as a prince in the land of LENR, I now see him as a Kermit in the land of LENR.

      So sad but he wastes so much time and effort with his attacks.

      DSM

  • http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/cold-fusion-a-resurrection-and-an-inconvenient-truth-a-view-from-europe/?replytocom=10913#respond praos

    There is something I find hard to grasp. Rossi’s actions make a lot of sense if he is genuine (as I do sincerely believe), and even if he is a conman, prankster or a simple crackpot. He acts as a man with mission – a mission to save the planet, make a bunch of money (or fools), or just a mission for mission’s sake, as many megalomaniacs do. So far so good. But what I fail to understand is the Krivit agenda, his stubborn tenacity and his sense of mission. What mission? To unmask one more crackpot, con gamer, you name it, among millions? Or to save Rossi from his own folly, and spare him the money he intends to squander on his silly contraption? There is absolutely no sense in his obsessive enmity towards even an obvious humbug, it’s simply not worth the trouble. The only possible explanation that crosses my mind is… Well, the nuclear energy was stopped by spreading of superstitious fear of radiations, in spite of all the proofs to the contrary. If LENR could not be stopped, it could be at least delayed… you know the rest.

    • Steve Robb

      From what I have heard Krivit is a cantankerous, person. He may simply enjoy arguing and enjoy stirring the pot with him in the midst of the stew. I have met people like that.

      • Kim

        Krivit Stew!

        Respect
        Kim

        • Scott H

          That even sounds foul.

  • Matt Smart

    Swartz & Krivit have quite a history already before this. Both of them have fallen out before, along the same lines that Rossi and Krivit clashed last year.

    Interesting fellow Krivit, claims to be an investigator of cf/lenr/canr, but only seems to stamp all over any new data. I suppose just a super sceptic, that has a knack of falling out with anyone he “investigates”. Still worth hearing other thoughts and angles though so partly useful in his own way…

    • http://sitonmyfacebook Joe Mama

      If this Swartz character is so right, and his science data is correct, why isn’t his university, MIT, jumping all over this and making announcements?

      • admin

        I don’t believe Swartz works at MIT — I think he was a guest at Prof. Hagelstein’s course on cold fusion.

      • sparks

        Maybe a problem with sustainment. The entire plot (for NANOR) looks quite unstable, revealing large power fluctuations over very brief time periods. This is still rock-solid evidence of large amounts of excess energy reaped, but it may be very difficult to control (meaning, a lot more research and development required). You don’t want your 10 kW (or 10 MW) power station to suddenly drop to 5 kW (or 5 MW), then back again. Or worse, die off altogether every few hours. That’s already one of the problems with wind power, limiting its uptake.
        Also, these plots are probably not a quantum leap “news” to the academic and research communities — more likely an incremental advancement, a small milestone, or just a more successful demonstration than many. Believe me, as a grad student, I and my peers (and my major professor) would have been all over something like this if it was a stunning new development, and throngs of grad students and professors today are no different, and are grabbing for that same breakthrough brass ring today, as has ever been the case.

        • Steve Robb

          If you truly believe that there is something to LENR then why don’t you broach the subject with your major professor and suggest that someone at your university investigate these claims of excess heat. Be brave, be bold but be ready to be slapped down. Please report back here soon as to how you were received.

          • sparks

            I’m speaking of academia in general. I’m decades past the days of being a grad student. Moreover, my field is electrical engineering and mathematical statistics. So my former academic circle is in a different field. What I’m saying (did anyone really miss this point) is that academia is intrepid and NOT inclined at all to suppression of ideas. There are plenty of investigators and students with advanced degrees already working on this problem. Some of the posters on this site are imagining conspiracies that just cannot occur in the academic realm, and revealing in the process their ignorance of how research is done in the free world. Sorry about the strident post, but this conspiracy crap is getting tedious and is of no value to the discussion.

          • http://none Joe

            It’s difficult not to have conspiracy theories when big names like U of Baloney, MIT, and NASA stand behind wild claims and at the same time refute them.

            UofB is working with Rossi. UofB is not working with Rossi. MIT did conduct a successful Cold Fusion experiment in a class, but it wasn’t an MIT professor. NASA said taps to fossil fuels in a video, but Joe Zawodny was forced at gun point to make the video. (off topic) Clinton smoked pot but he didn’t inhale:))

            Come-on guys. We the public are trying really hard here not to be conspiracy theorists.

          • sparks

            Hee hee, U of Baloney, thanks for that!

    • Frank

      More info about the ‘relationship’ between Dr. Swartz and Mr. Krivit here:
      http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Swartz/Mitchell-Swartz-Cold-Fusion-Researcher.shtml

      I’m a little bit confused about the style how the reply to Krivits blog-entry was drawed up:
      http://world.std.com/~mica/krivit02052012.html
      Allegedly written by Dr. Swartz, he refers to himself as ‘Dr. Swartz’ and not as ‘I’. – Like he wants to leave the impression that reply was written by an neutral observer.

      • Matt Smart

        Before the Rossi story took off last year and everyone started to take notice of cold fusion again the Cold Fusion Times mega one page blog was one of only a couple of places to follow and promote any new developments in this arena. Mitch Swartz has been pushing to promote cf for years as he has seen and met with most of the top researchers who still had the balls to pursue further research as they knew something would eventually come through. If anyone knows anything you should really listen to what Swartz has to say, his massive blog could easily put anyone off though.

        As Krivit and Swartz do have a history already this debate will most likely get very heated as neither of them will let the other have the last word.

  • sparks

    These are the plots we would all like to see for Rossi’s device, but sustained over a much, much longer time period (proving commercial viability). The sustainment issue (over months-long durations) is the critical question. Rossi could show plots like these without exposing any of his proprietary process.

    The joules are energy, hence, the integral of watts (power) over time. Nice clear plots.

    • Frank

      Such plots, if done by Rossi himself, wouldn’t get credibility.
      There need to be the stamp and signature of an reputable organization (a notified body etc) on it, which confirms the validly of the data.
      (and I don’t mean by that the signature of a retired colonel)

      • sparks

        Agreed. We would need an independent third-party test.

  • Keith Long

    Evil will no longer be able to hide. Mankind has reached the conscious state that we can see the truth and evidence will no longer be needed. Krivit is running uphill and against the wind. Don’t waste to much thought on him. Mankind has been presented a choice. Make the right one and “ALL” things are possible.

    With all my love Keith

  • http://sitonmyfacebook Joe Mama

    Gotta love this guy’s article.

    1. In the title he compares Krivit to a 5th grader for not being able to read the MIT charts.

    2. The charts are presented and stand alone are completely ambiguous to a layperson.

    3. In the fine print of the article “For hot fusion and particle physicists and students,… an explanation of what the colors mean”

    If the charts were so straight forward and easy to understand why the explanation of what the colors mean for the experts?

  • Sanjeev

    Thank you for the plots.
    It is obvious from the second graph that the system is overunity. We have another proof.

    After the NANOR run, the excess energy out is (400-100) and input is (110-80), so the COP is 300/30 = 10. Just as claimed.

    COP is better than ECat (~6), but the power levels are not so exciting, it won’t even light an LED. Obviously they need to work on it to make it a commercial success.

    It is good that established and reputed scientists are coming out with such experiments now and publishing them.

    The fact that the power output is low is insignificant because these people are scientists, interested in the physics of the stuff, so even microwatts is significant here, as it will overthrow most of the know physics. A big achievement for mankind.

    Unfortunately, one cannot make everyone happy, especially those with an agenda.

    • Sanjeev

      Also note that the reaction is self sustaining from 3592 to 4105. The COP is infinite for this time duration.

      • Colin Connaughton

        I don’t claim to understand the experiment but from the graphs, during what you call the self-sustaining time, the output power seems to be falling exponentially as though it is cooling down or discharging energy that it has acquired earlier. Not my understanding of ‘self-sustaining’.

        • Sanjeev

          I agree. The dT is 0 for this period. Sorry I did not see this and assumed that the device is generating some power during this time.
          Not self sustaining.

          • Colin Connaughton

            Thank you. I appreciate your response.

    • http://sitonmyfacebook Joe Mama

      Especially if your agenda is trying to figure out what the heck is going on!

  • http://sitonmyfacebook Joe Mama

    I’m not a physicist but I finished the 5th grade. I have to say I looked at the graph and I don’t get it. Perhaps someone can explain it to me. Time vs Power and Time vs Input Power and Time vs Joules sharing the same charts. Lots and lots of colors. No index to clearly explain what the colors mean. Only acronyms which are unfamiliar. The graphs are very confusing.

  • gerard2012

    The strategy of Mr. Steven B. Krivit’s will is clear and the golden rule of the enemies of LENR technology.

    They position themselves as supporters open to new technologies including Cold Fusion or LENR. They conduct interviews condescending view to encouraging Mr. Andrea Rossi and his friends, it allows them to give a serious credibility and scientific objectivity. Then reinforced in their public image seriously and pragmatisms. They can attack, that is currently Mr. Steven B. Krivit’s.
    They use the strategy of the Trojan horse to beat their opponents better and give a public image of amateurs and impostors … It does remind you of anything?
    How to beat them, turning their bad arguments by public unassailable that will make them ridiculous and “Has Been”.

    In french

    La stratégie de Monsieur Steven B. Krivit’s est limpide et sera la règle d’or des ennemis de la technologie LENR.
    Ils se positionnent comme des partisans ouverts aux nouvelles technologies et notamment de la fusion froide ou LENR. Ils réalisent des interviews condescendantes voir encourageante pour Mr Andréa Rossi et ses amis, cela leurs permet de se donner une crédibilité de sérieux et d’objectivité scientifique. Ensuite conforté dans leurs image publique de sérieux et de pragmatismes. Ils peuvent attaquer, ce que fait actuellement Monsieur Steven B. Krivit’s.
    Ils utilisent la stratégie du cheval de Troie pour mieux battre leurs adversaires et donner une image publique d’amateurs et d’imposteurs… Cela ne vous rappellent rien?
    Comment les battre, en retournant leur mauvais arguments par des personnes publiques inattaquables qui les rendront ridicules et “Has been”.

  • sapain

    another small step for lenr.
    glad to c the nay sayer getting slapped ouch.

  • Andrew Macleod

    Let us see what Mr.Krivit does to “slither” out of this mistake.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Krivit might be unemployed if his “New Energy Times” folds once cold fusion becomes the new energy.

    Once we have a viable green energy why would any interest remain in new energy?

    I can see where it would be in Krivits self interest to argue against Andrea Rossi and any who try to make cold-fusion a reality.

  • morse

    Is Krivit’s agenda to debunk CF/LENR/LANR?
    Does he have his own agenda?
    Graphs don’t lie, do they?

  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    This follows the predictable pattern of LENR obsfucation….

    —-to publish a portion of the data collected—–

    They never forget not to break the golden rule when collecting and disseminating research data. As I said before, it must be as hazy and out of focus as a 70’s porn film. Check.

    Enjoy.

  • Karl

    To me Krivit seem to have quite a different agenda than a promoter of the entire CF/LENR/LANR, whatever finally will be the correct scientific acronym nailed down. Having seen some of his earlier statements after his visit in Bologna and how he interpreted or misinterpreted Levi one may seriously wonder what he aims at?

    • RichyRoo

      PFE = Pons Fleischmann Effect. Any other name is speculation about causes/process which is simply not currently known.

  • Colin Connaughton

    I quote ‘Mr. Krivit is quantitatively off by 34,200%’

    I make 102/3 to be a factor of 34 which is 3,400.

    • Colin Connaughton

      I mean 34 = 3,400% of course.

      • Joe

        Perhaps its all just a case of typos on everyone’s part.

        • Sanjeev

          I agree. It must have been a typo. The original website has corrected it now.
          But I’m having a good laugh with this brick throwing competition.

  • daniel maris

    I did come across a site once that seemed to be a pro-solar energy site until you looked into it what it was saying. It was playing up all the difficulties of solar energy and engaging in subtle propaganda for nuclear and other forms of energy.

    • Roger Bird

      I see that a lot with raw milk, which has cured my son of his allergies.

  • daniel maris

    About time someone tweaked his nose.

    • jetmech

      ok
      a mystery buyer
      a mystery customer
      a mystery partner
      no ecat
      none nada
      where is the ecat?
      in rossi’s garage in italy!

      We already knew that Rossi had repeatedly lied about allowing testing at the University of Bologna and uppsala

      With the release of the video last month, we discovered that Rossi lied about shipping the “big” E-Cat. It’s still sitting in his warehouse, with no signs of any test or support equipment that would be required to actually be testing or improving the device.

      We also discovered that Rossi lied about using the E-Cat to heat his warehouse. The video clearly shows a propane space heater.

      But, other than those lies, and other than the total lack of any actual evidence that he’s doing anything at all, everything is going great!

      • jetmech

        last month sorry i meant last months ago!

        no ecat
        no hyperion
        nothing nada
        none
        how can you speculate on a device that is so far speculative at best?

        hah hah

        I continue to not understand what all this TALK is about a device that is so far NONEXISTANT? does it exist in another universe?