Daniele Passerini Launches MIG-22 Initiative to Send Testers To Defkalion

Daniele Passerini, E-Cat follower and owner of the 22 Passi web site is helping launch an initiative titled Operation MiG-22 (Mission in Greece) in which funds are being raised to send two people to Greece to participate in the testing of Defkalion Green Technologies’ Hyperion reactors.

According to Passerini, 800 Euros have already been raised for the project and a request has been sent to Defkalion for permission to participate in testing. A meeting about this initiative has been scheduled in Rome on February 18th for people who want to be involved in the project.

Passerini has asked professor Francesco Celani, physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics to participate in the MiG-22 initiative, and he has indicated that he would try to establish appropriate testing criteria. Celani has expressed doubts about the usefulness of the types of testing that Defkalion has proposed. At this point, however, it’s not clear if he would be willing to travel to Greece to do the testing.

There’s no indication yet on what DGT’s response will be to this initiative. It’s possible the proposal may be turned down, since it is rather an ad hoc group that is being formed, and DGT’s invitation was to serious professional organizations.

  • Pingback: Defkalion releases video of Hyperion Cold Fusion Device test and an online Project to send testers to Defkalion | My Blog()

  • PersonFromPorlock

    At the risk of not being taken seriously, why not ask Mary Yugo to design a test? She claims competence in calorimetry and God knows, if she said “it works!” we could believe it.

    • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

      Calorimetry experiments….lol. If what Rossi is claiming to offer actually worked at the rates he claims, you wouldn’t need a sophisticated experiment to prove it. You set an E-Cat up in a Home Depot parking lot next week in Minot ND and have it heat a dozen jacuzzis until the spring thaw….or at least for a couple days.

      We ought to be well past the point of haggling over minute differences in calorimetry readings at this late stage of the game.

      Enjoy.

  • Steve

    Make sure you check the wiring LOL and CALL Australia
    on SKYPE the phones may be out.

  • http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com The Tim Channel

    Am I the only one who has noted the similarities between Christian religious zealots and ecat/rossi supporters? Both strongly believe their futures will be greatly enhanced by what amounts to a magical event and all without any honest skeptical scrutiny whatsoever. “Wouldn’t it be nice if….” isn’t proof.

    We all wish it were true (about the ecat anyway…lol), but from what I’ve seen it isn’t going to happen. If we assume LENR (or something weird) is happening at some level, as many serious scientists do, it no way implies a useful commercial product would/could/will come of it. This ‘effect’ is obviously very tiny and very transient. That’s not my opinion btw. That is the factual state of the science as I’ve heard conferred by those serious scientists who are attempting to fundamentally understand the effect.

    I’ll be writing the definitive ecat expose soon. I have been watching this develop for awhile now, but only recently took the time to do the proper investigative research necessary to form a defensible conclusion.

    Enjoy.

    • alexvs

      Hello, you are not the only one. Me too. But after being banned several times I read the site from time to time. If not sensible at least it is amusing.

    • timycelyn

      As good as Ian Bryce’s?

    • Mr. F

      Dear Tim,
      I sure am glad you where not the one to decide the future of computers in the 1940’s. You would probably said “too big” “too slow” “too little effect” and then pulled the plug.
      If LENR can happen, however “tiny” the effect is now, it needs to be thoroughly researched. Then, who knows, it may become the energy salvation we need.

      And by the way, you also sound alot like the “Christian religious zealots” of old: “The world is flat” “The earth is the center of the universe”. Sticking to old knowledge and hoping it will be true forever is a very religious trait.

      • Brian

        Or perhaps it’s like an attempted perpetuum mobile with lots of wheels and magnets. It spins for a long time giving you the impression you’re at the verge of making it run forever.
        Unfortunately, from an almost working perpetuum mobile to a functional one is not a matter of persistence – it would break the laws of physics.

        In your analogy with computers there is progress at every step. In extracting energy where physics doesn’t allow it, progress is impossible.

        • EnergyGuy

          Re: “it would break the laws of physics”

          We trot that one out time and time again, don’t we! Since when do the “laws” of physics, contrived by humankind, trump material evidence, as you seem to imply in this case of alleged LENR?

        • Robert Black

          Widom-Larsen does not require “new physics.”

          • http://www.Libertnewspost.com Becktemba

            Don’t feed the trolls they keep asking for more and they already know everything there is to know about anything.

    • Skeptic

      Right on. Just wanting it to be real doesn’t make it so!

      • timycelyn

        ….and just wanting it to be unreal doesn’t make it so either….

  • arian

    Who run the Deucalion SA?

    George Sortikos CEO

    Engineer. . Former banker and industrialist (ceramic high tech). Former Chairman of State Bank ETVA (Greek Bank of Industrial Development) ’80-’90 and founder of Omega Bank ’90. . He was also chairman of the TIF (International Fair of Thessaloniki).
    ————————————————
    David Christian Aurel CEO

    Swiss Banker with extensive experience in project finance and logistics. Former president of Bank of Montenegro.
    ———————————————–
    Alexander Xanthoulis Board Member

    Economist (Macroeconomics). Greek-Canadian. Former official of the EU heads the Energy and Financial Reconstruction of the EU delegation in Central Asia (90).
    ————————————————
    Chris Stremmenos Board Member

    Chemical Engineer. Professor (retired) at the University of Bologna, Italy, former ambassador of Greece to Italy.
    ————————————————
    John Hatzichristos Board Member

    Mathematician. Extensive experience in software development, Management Information Systems and Project Management. From 1992 to 1999 he served as CEO of computer systems Telemedia SA, while from 1991 to 1992 general manager of software systems Cibar AU. From 1990 to 1991 he worked at Marketing & Sales Intrasoft SA as a responsible banking sector.
    ————————————————-
    Mouafak Saouachni Board Member

    Doctor Ophthalmologist. Greek-Israeli. Former member of the National Council of PASOK.
    ————————————————-
    Andreas Drougas Board Member

    Mathematics / Computer Systems. Former Executive Director in LARCO (Greek nickel mining company, now owned by the State), wide experience as a consultant on business management and information technology. Larco is a leading producer of ferronickel o in Europe and one of the five largest producers worldwide. The Larco explores, extracts, produces and sells its product worldwide.

    • arian

      Deucalion = Defkalion

      google translate mistake

    • Robert Mockan

      More relevant would be who are the research scientists involved in developing the product? The list you posted are managerial types. They probably could not assemble a crystal radio, or explain how a light bulb works, even combining “abilities”. Who is the applied quantum chemist in charge of R&D? Who has the background in analytical chemistry and catalysis technology? Who is the laboratory manager?
      Thinking people want the answers to these questions.

    • Allen Gage

      Have any of the “directors” ever personally seen an E-Cat or Hyperion gadget melt a garbage pail full of crushed ice? That’s the only credential that would impress a rational skeptic.

  • sven

    One interesting question is, what type of realistic test protocol would the e-cat forums define as one that would lead to 99.999% certainty that the effect is real and based on nuclear reaction?

    In the test performed before by Rossi there has always been some kind of unnecessary flaw, that reduces the reliability and the accuracy of the results. Everyone is ready to criticize the tests but I haven’t seen a good and thorough proposal for a test yet.

    How about using this forum to suggest an appropriate protocol, discuss it, improve it and then when a good solution has been found, ask Rossi and Defkalion to run it or better, have it run by independent test house.

    Wouldn’t the best test-groups be one of the EU standardization and notified bodies groups. This could be TüV, BSI, UL, ETL to name a few. A test from that type of group based on a well reviewed protocol would do the trick to get to the point of absolute certainty.

    • Lu

      “I’ll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure.” ― Mae West

      Which is why the I said three times. No matter how carefully planned, the first test will be found lacking in some fashion. The second test hopefully would address those shortcomings and attempt to repeat the results. The third test would be another test but with a different emphasis.

      It’s going to be hard to fake a test with a COP of 20+ over 48+ hours.

      • sven

        I think that the October 6th test was pretty close to be good. If the temperature difference between the input and output of the secondary circuit would have been for example 40 deg. with temp meters calibrated at the beginning and end to show correct values and verify the accuracy, the input electrical current would have been measured with an independent pre and post calibrated logger and the flow would have been measured by collecting and weighting the cooling water in a closed container with a pre and post calibrated scale, running for a long enough periods of time to eliminate any possibilities of chemical reaction and the whole process videotaped and monitored by a credible, independent observer, that is what I would take for a hard-to-reject evidence. It doesn’t have to be that complicated or take that long time. It would also be difficult to understand why the groups declaring LENR effect would reject any of those conditions if they have nothing to hide. The big question is, even if their systems work, do they really want to prove it at this point in time or is it better to get a little bit further ahead of the upcoming competition before hell brakes loose?

    • Allen Gage

      This is an almost trivial technical problem. Run the E-Cat in self-sustaining mode. The test objective would be to see what mass of ice the E-Cat “excess” heat could melt over how much time.
      Just fill a few insulated garbage pails full of ordinary crushed water ice. Just for grins, record the weight of the garbage pail full of ice. Use a simple electric peristaltic pump such as the one Rossi normally uses to circulate water through his E-Cats. Connect an insulated pipe/tube from an ice-filled garbage pail sump to the peristaltic pump. The pump discharge is piped to the E-Cat inlet. The E-Cat outlet is piped into the sump of the garbage pail of ice. The water from melting ice just recirculates through the E-Cat and crushed ice pail. Use any clock with precision of at least one minute/hr. Have any village idiot record how many minutes it takes to melt the pail of ice. If the E-Cat melts ice very fast, that’s better. Just pour off the excess water and weigh it. Add more crushed ice as needed. Sixth graders can do this simple test to at least 10% precision.

      The heat the E-Cat produced is simply a function of how much liquid water is produced. No temperature measurements are needed. The liquid water entering the E-Cat will be near the freezing point. The E-Cat outlet temperature or phase doesn’t matter either. It’s either going to enter the ice pail sump and melt ice or not melt ice.

      What could be any easier? No precision instruments or measurements are required. The heat required to melt a given mass of ice is known to good precision. Seems I remember it takes about 85 Wh of heat to create the phase change in 1-kg of solid ice at ~ 32F to liquid water at ~ 32F. Let the self-sustaining E-Cat melt ice for say 24 hours. Then weigh the liquid water produced. That’s the weight of ice melted.
      Merely dividing the weight of liquid water produced by the number of hours the test runs expresses the power rate. Yeah, I know the mass of ice will probably be at some temperature well below the phase change temperature, and some liquid water will have to be added initially to start the test, but most of the heat will go toward the phase change, and if you want to get more precise bring in the 12th grade physics students with quartz wrist watches and thermometers. There is no way to cheat or introduce plausible technical arguments about instrumentation or steam state, either the ice melts or it stays solid. Sixth graders can weigh liquid water to good precision, and most of them can multiply the measured weight in kg by 85 Watts.

  • Pingback: Daniele Passerini Launches MIG-22 Initiative to Send Testers To Defkalion | ColdFusionBlog.net()

  • Sanjeev

    Celani and co are respected third party but not exactly an independent third party. He is a competitor on one hand and on the other he is claiming success in LENR himself.

    So if he does the test and the test results are negative, people are going to accuse him for competitive bias. If they are positive, people are going to say he is a lenr supporter and so biased.

    A truly independent party would be someone not in lenr business and/or not a lenr researcher. He should have a big reputation to lose.

    Anyway its for DGT to decide.

  • Lu

    It would be a big if unless Celani or another scientist of his stature committed for Defkalion to allow such a test. Defkalion’s reputation is on the line with each such test and they will not allow just any rag-tag group to test their technology.

    I also wonder how much such a test might cost considering the equipment, transportation, and housing costs. My guess would be in the 10’s of thousands of Euros. Still I would be willing to contribute some if things are better defined.

    On the other hand, based on Defkalion’s recent statements, there are going to be at least two such independent tests over the next two months (and possibly more) so this effort may be OBE before it gets off the ground. IMO, it will take three such tests with positive results for me to remove all my doubts about commercial LENR but if Defkalion’s statements are to be believed it won’t be long now.

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    Save the 800 Euros. Just ask NASA how much excess power does the LENR system they are supposedly in the process of patenting produce? According to DGT tests have already been scheduled. Ask them who are the testers and what is their schedule? As for Rossi ask him who are his investors and how much of the initiative does he own?

    • Roger Bird

      It is painful for me to admit, but Charles Ponzi, all of your points and questions in this post above is completely legitimate.

      However, if I was rich, I would be very interested in paying an airline to fly me to Greece and seeing for sure. Certainty would be worth the price of a ticket to and from Colorado. But only if I was very rich.

    • daniel maris

      Charles Ponzi –

      What do you mean “supposedly in the process of patenting”? NASA and Zawodny were awarded the patent in October 2011 I’m pretty sure.

      • Tony

        Yep, google for nasa surface plasmon lenr

        • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

          I googled but found nothing about exactly how much excess energy the contraption produces.

    • Joe

      People always attribute fantastic powers and abilities to govt agencies. That guy in the NASA video was not speaking on behalf of NASA only himself and his pet cat.

      http://joe.zawodny.com/index.php/2012/01/14/technology-gateway-video/

      But, to each his own. What ever gets you up in the morning.

      • http://none Il Duce

        The video was an official NASA video. The only reason that NASA isn’t apologizing for the goof is because it was viewed by only a handful of people. It’s not mainstream media so who cares?

        • Joe

          What goof are you referring to? The video was not an accident it was intentional. Any NASA employee can make one of those and get it posted on the NASA website with a nice NASA logo.

          Did you read the post from the guy in the video on people reading too much into it?

          …”There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works. Many extraordinary claims have been made in 2010. In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I find a distinct absence of the latter. So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.”…

          1+1=45

          • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

            So Joe, what’s the big deal with presenting us, the general public, with a number? You said it produces excess amounts of energy. What are we talking? Does it compare to a mouse’s fart? Can it power a car? Or does it move airliners like the one we can clearly see in your video?

            I seriously doubt anybody can get any useful information out of Rossi or Defkalion. Take the high road and give us the truth about this device being worked on at NASA.

            If on a good day it produces different amounts of energy than on a bad day we’re fine with that by the way.