Rossi’s Two University Strategy Could Be Key to Success

If I am interpreting Andrea Rossi’s strategy regarding working with the two universities correctly, they could prove to give him and his invention the biggest public boost he has yet received. From recent comments by Rossi, from the statement yesterday from the University of Bologna, and from some insightful comments from readers on this site and elsewhwere here’s what I think might be going on.

Rossi has agreed to provide the universities with E-Cat models that they can test themselves. (From what Rossi has said in the past I think the other university most likely Uppsala in Sweden.) Rossi says he trusts both Bologna and Uppsala.

The key part of University of Bologna’s physics department statement, in my opinion is this:

However, the Department of Physics has made ​​available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements on the production of heat by the equipment’s e-cat in order to provide an answer to the entire scientific community and the general public about the phenomenon. The measurement results will be published.

It could be implied from this that Rossi has given Bologna permission to publish the results of their testing to the scientific community and the general public. If the same deal has been made with the other university, and both places issue positive reports simultaneoulsy, Rossi would receive a tremendous boost in interest and favorability ratings, which would no doubt lead to more pre-orders for the first E-Cats and probably opening the door to any financing he might need.

Rossi is no doubt aware of the invitation from Defkalion for independent testers to test their Hyperion reactors — and we know that the last thing he wants is to be eclipsed by DGT. One thing is for sure, Rossi will need to find some new way to convince the public that he has what he claims before he can think that one million people are going to part with $500 or more for an E-Cat unit. Right now I think there are too many questions surrounding him and his technology to be able to do that.

This is all still speculation on my part, but two university strategy for validation purposes, if it is done right, could be the key to success for Rossi.

Frank Acland

  • Paul Yolles

    You need to understand that Rossi has quite a lot of things to juggle. For a person with no real business, PR, political, finance, multi-media expertise, he’s not doing bad. Things take time. Complications arise. No man is an island, but Rossi has found himself in that un-envyable position anyway. And if he wants exclusive rights (which he deserves for his 18 yrs of toil to solve Earth’s energy problems) he must remain an island. When one little inconsistancy or problem arises, you critics just turn on him in the blink of an eye. So fickle! Anyone who has had any leadership experience understands that managing a project of this complexity, scale, and originality, especially if critical parts must be kept secret, is an almost imposiible task. Any armchair quaterback can mentally masturbate all over it. But it takes guts to actually do it! Do you really believe that Rossi would be going through all those sleepless nights, travel, endless character attacks, and even threat to life and limb to perpetuate the hoax of the century? He’s an honorable man dealing with a spectacular array of problems the best he can to get the job done. Can you cut the man even a millimeter of slack?!

  • Skeptic

    Summing it up:

    – All tests have been orchestrated by Rossi and very, very short.
    A credible test would be simpl to run the device ran for a week.
    This would be simple but it has not been done.

    – Defkalion and Rossi’s stories give each other credibility. But:
    Defkalion did not exist before Rossi.
    Defkalion did not do or produce anything before Rossi.
    Defkalion did not have a website untill two months ago (in an age where my BAKER has a website).
    Defkalion today has NO OTHER products other that an e-cat.

    – NASA is frequently cited to give LENR credibility. However, Nasa has not stated ‘We have seen LENR and it works’. Ever.

    – Mass production: Claims by Rossi vary wildly. Numbers change, dates change. There has be no mention of the fact that an unproven lab-experiment which might work on yet undiscovered laws of physics is decades away from a reliable household appliance.
    Look at the radio, TV, computer, electricity, the car: they took decades from experiment to something you can actually buy.

    – LENR: LENR is as real as goblins are real. You can talk about goblins, describe their society and feeding habits, you can even claim you have seen one. That still does not make them real. LENR is real just like goblins are real.

    The e-cat can not be demonstrated or it would have been done.
    Defkalion is an invention by Rossi, to give Rossi credibilaty.
    Stories about production are strawman-arguments disigned to take your attention away from the real questions.
    Claims about the number of universities are also strawman-arguments for you to argue about while taking your attention away from the real questions.

    How does it work?
    What about a convincing demo?

    Facts:
    – Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
    – Rossi uses magician-tricks to take your attention away from the real questions.
    – The e-cat is as real as goblins: You can talk about it, draw one on paper, but no-one has ever seen one.
    – Rossi is either a fraudster himself or he is an invention by someone who’s laughing right now.

  • Kim

    It always boils down to:

    I want my cake and I want to eat it to.

  • Roger Bird

    I have run out of patience with Rossi and Defkalion. I may soon be losing interest completely for a while. We get nothing but bullshit, stacked higher and higher. It would be no big deal to have an engineer confirm that the thing runs and there are no hidden wires or plumbing.

    • Skeptic

      Spot on!

      The argument about one or two universities is just designed to take everyone’s mind of this simple observation: No convincing demonstration so far!!!

  • Roger Bird

    It is still nothing more than interesting hot air.

  • sapain

    deception is a great alli, invisiblity is a must for positioning.
    no 1 knows anything equals both.
    gives rossi the advantage in a mind blowing development.
    once any lenr devise shows it`s face it will go viral.

  • daniel maris

    Genuine inventions often have a difficult birth and the investors flirt with financial and reputational ruin. From the Wikipedia article on Karl Benz, inventor of the motor car:-

    “The enterprise’s first year went very badly. Ritter [Benz’s partner] turned out to be unreliable. The business’s tools were impounded.”

    • Skeptic

      That does not mean you can turn that around and conclude that something with a difficult birth will therefore be as succesful as the car.

      That’s what you’re arguing here: The car had a difficult birth, and not it’s very succesful; so when the e-cat is not running smoothly, that means it is going to be very succesful.

      Sorry, that doesn’t work.

  • racribeiro

    The more I read, the more I believe in LENR and less I believe in Rossi’s claims.

    When the story starts to get on a bit “boring” he get’s out of his batcave and makes a “revolutionary bombastic” announcment, even more fantastic than the last. And then, he goes back to the batcave…

    Unfortunatly none of the new claims are effective actions and, in fact, don’t solve any “basic” doubts that all of us have. The new claims add up to this miraculous product that seems to be less and less plausible and far, far away available for everyone to use.

    • Steven

      My sentiments exactly. Rossi will have to offer us something very soon. All he does are some videos in a very cold hall, where he says things we’ve already heard many times before. I really want to believe, but as a scientist I just can’t.

  • http://www.e-catworld.com/2011/12/cold-fusion-a-resurrection-and-an-inconvenient-truth-a-view-from-europe/?replytocom=10913#respond praos

    If payments go via escrew accounts, it’s quite enough to establish consumers confidence in the product. Any independent verification will be simply overkill and will not add a jot to sales. It’s even more so if Defcalion do the public demonstration, establishing the viability of the LENR fenomena. So Rossi’s actions make perfect sense.

    • Steven

      There will not be a public demonstration – all they said is that 3rd party testers will be able to conduct various analysis on Hyperion. This is exactly what Rossi did in October 2011 which did not help clarify situation one bit.

  • the snake

    it’s strange that Defkalion and Rossi somehow do the same, but never attack each other and strangely cooperate in setting up a show.

    Kim Schmitz of Megaupload has a history as impostor and clown:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94kKxwXzve0

    Can Rossi’s eyes lie?

  • Jambo

    Hmmm…

    It would seem that the best marketing of all is neither an “irrefutable” test, which there cannot be, unless an individual is present personally, nor public grandstanding by Rossi which would lend itself to the perception of fraud.

    Rossi has done neither of these but has, rather, relied on the wagging tongues of the uncertain. A continuous source of discussion and debate about his device.

    Simple, brilliant, cheap, and very well suited to the development pace of his project.

    He impresses more all the time.

    • Steven

      Conducting irrefutable test really is not that difficult – if you indeed have something. Just invite scientists form say 3 universities form a country that is energy dependent (e.g. Germany, Japan, Italy,…) and let them have fun with the device. If all the universities agreed that Rossi indeed has a working product that would be scientifically irrefutable. The only, if eCATs are real, that logically sustains my wavering belief is that Rossi wants to sell as many of them as possible – thus maximizing the amount of money he’ll make. Let’s hope that he’s just very greedy and actually has something.

  • Mike Cheek

    So much of everything is based on assertions by Mr. Rossi. I still wish him the best; however, the following link by astrophysicist Ethan Siefel and nuclear physicist Peter Thieberger, Senior Physicist at Brookhaven National Laboratory, casts very serious doubt.

    First, transmutation of nickel to copper would release serious amounts of gamma radiation. We would need about 3 feet of concrete to be safe. Secondly, based on the sample Mr. Rossi provided to Sven Kullander at Upsalla, it was analyzed and the copper in the submitted sample was exactly the same as natural copper. If there had been a transmutation of the Nickel (and its various isotopes) then a different ratio of transmuted Copper isotopes would have been found. In other words, it looks like the sample was “salted.”

    I wish Rossi and Defkalion the best. I really hope they will show us all to be a “monkey’s uncle”. But there continues to be mainly confusion. We can see what happens with the Defkalion tests.

    • Robert Mockan

      If the Kullander analysis is correct, I agree it casts serious doubt on the energy generating mechanism. In fact, if nickel is NOT being transmuted, but is generating thermal power with a catalyst (or activator), then what we have is an EXACT description of a Black Light Power hdrino process. Raney nickel and hydrogen, with the catalyst sodium hydride, at the BLP corporation was demonstrated many years ago to generate kilowatts of thermal power. But the reaction only runs until hydrogen, disassociated into atomic hydrogen on the nickel, is depleted.
      In other words, the BLP process did not run continuously, and the active material had to be regenerated with external electric power to cycle it through a reforming process before it could run again on its own.

      But of course if the E-Cat uses that process it is already patented by the Black Light Power corporation. So Rossi could not use it unless he purchased a license from BLP.

      • the snake

        your comment is the best I’ve seen here.

        • racribeiro

          Agreed!

          I didn’t knew how BLP process works, neither was I aware that it had the same principles as Rossi’s reaction.

          Thanks.

      • Sparks

        Agreed. I will be watchful for future posts by Mr. Mockan. Highly informative! I wish I had time to investigate BLP more deeply, but for now, I’ll continue to sit on the sidelines. My stance on e-cat remains as originally stated months ago, that Rossi has stumbled upon, or discovered, something, but there are major sustainment problems (consistent BTW, with Mr. Mockan’s post above) that will probably take many years to solve, if they can be solved at all.

      • xy

        Great. This just proves what I think of the whole theatre. My guess is that several teams had some results recently, but not really satisfying. They mostly knew of each other. AR did too and played around. With his funny style, he went prematurely public, now fighting to resolve the issues. N.I. surely sees a great opportunity so they invest the capacities, but have some troubles to face. Defkalion and other work on that too. No-one can open up, since they all know they are in a bit of trouble not having it stabilized, too much gamma, or BLP patent in their way, or whatever. So they push time with blah-blah talk.

      • Skeptic

        Interesting. ‘Black Light’ has a pseudo-company website filled with pseudo-science, which basically says: This engine runs on water.

        Hm, that’s a claim we’ve never heard before, have we?

        Boils down to: two-hydrogen-oxide (water) is not the lowest energy-form of hydrogen, there is an even lower one, so we gain energy from bringing water down to this lower state.

        Nice pseudo scientific language on the site.

    • Ged

      Here’s another theory to explain the hydrogen-nickle fusion reaction by a the nuclear physicist Yeong E. Kim of Purdue University: http://www.physics.purdue.edu/people/faculty/yekim/BECNF-Ni-Hydrogen.pdf

      This theory predicts very weak gamma rays to be produced, “[t]his leads to the prediction that intensities of the gamma-rays from the decays of 59Cu and 61Cu are expected to be weak and do not commensurate with the observed heat production, which is mostly from stable Cu production reactions 62Ni(2p(S=0), p)63Cu and 64Ni(2p(S=0), p)65Cu.”

      It’s interesting.

      • Ged

        Oh, should also point out the above includes testable hypotheses and predictions for the possible reaction pathways going on; meaning this is actual science that could be answered through observation and experiments. Even a potential catalyst involved reaction is listed. Any nuclear physics university should be able to easily set this up and test it rather quickly, it seems to me. And I really hope someone does, this Bose-Einstine condensation theory is interesting with far more potential applications if it turned out to be supportable through experimentation.

  • Robert Mockan

    Obviously the product is not ready for market, regardless of what one
    believes about it working or not, or if it even exists. How do you know
    this?

    The E-Cat is advertised as working for 180 days between refueling, and
    after start up it is supposed to generate 10,000 watts of thermal power. It
    is described as being a water heater.

    So… heat some water for 180 days. Measure the flow rate, temperature in,
    temperature out. Given the mass of water being heated, the heat capacity of
    water, and the temperature difference between the water before and after
    being heated, allows one to calculate the E-Cat thermal power being
    generated.

    This is not rocket science, and for any person advertising selling a
    product that is supposed to do exactly what I described to say they do not
    have the time to run such a demonstration, is preposterous. It is not like
    Rossi even has to be there. Given the number of units that have already
    been built for the MW shipping container modules, Rossi certainly has
    enough to spare one for a real demonstration that can not be denied.

    Set the single E-Cat demo up at the manufacturing company, even in the
    lobby, and keep the door open to any person who wants to visit and see it
    working.

    • Robert Mockan

      Ah, and one other thing. Doing a 180 day demo would not delay in any way making or selling product. In fact it would be great advertising. Make a good picture for the product brochure posted on the company web site, for downloading by anybody who wants to see what the E-Cat looks like and to read the specifications. (There is a company web site, isn’t there?).

    • Sparks

      In fact, If I were trying to fund a startup company on this technology, that (a demonstration in the lobby) is exactly what I would do, so that I could show the working unit to attract venture capitol. Launching a volume production line from a prototype is a very expensive proposition, and the Rossi news releases have been uniformly misleading and oversimplifying the scope of what he proposes to do. And to launch mass production from a non-working prototype is IMPOSSIBLE. This is where Rossi’s credibility has consistently failed.

      • xy

        They can’t do that. The catalyst is probably very simple. Would be copied instantly. They also hide some issue they have. Third, they do not need to do that at all – if they believe they will provide a superb product soon.

  • JerryD

    What is this with the TESTING ? he already TESTED he is going to SELL NOW .. ONE MILLION UNITS – please the test Flakes GO AWAY and let progress and Free Enterprise take over from here, the TESTING is DONE – its already tested and ready for Market!

    • Jimr

      Jerry, with all due respect. You are living in a dream world. I don’t believe it has been thoroughly tested, they certainly have not been able to control the device as yet. Hopefully National Inst. will be able to accomplish this. I don’t know how they can say it will run for six months continually with no controls. I still hope them the best.

  • Francesco CH

    Original Communiqué (in Italian):

    http://www.magazine.unibo.it/Magazine/Universita/2012/01/26/E-cat_dichiarazione_del_Dipartimento_di_Fisica.htm

    E-CAT: DICHIARAZIONE DEL DIPARTIMENTO DI FISICA

    26 gennaio 2012

    Rescisso il contratto sottoscritto a giugno con la EFA srl causa il mancato soddisfacimento delle condizioni al termine contrattuale previsto

    – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Il Dipartimento di Fisica dichiara che il contratto sottoscritto nel giugno 2011 tra il Dipartimento di Fisica e la EFA srl (la società italiana in cui Rossi è coinvolto) è stato rescisso causa il mancato soddisfacimento delle condizioni al termine contrattuale previsto. Non c’è più alcun rapporto tra il Dipartimento e la EFA srl legato a questo contratto.

    Tuttavia, il Dipartimento di Fisica si è reso disponibile con la sua esperienza e le sue strumentazioni per svolgere autonome misurazioni sulla produzione di calore da parte dell’apparecchiatura denominata E-cat al fine di fornire una risposta all’intera comunità scientifica e all’opinione pubblica in merito al fenomeno. I RISULTATI DELLE MISURE SARANNO PUBBLICATI.

    • Francesco CH

      Google translate of above.

      E-CAT: STATEMENT OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PHYSICS

      January 26, 2012

      Terminated the contract signed in June with the EFA Ltd. because of failure to meet contract conditions provided at the end

      – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      The Department of Physics states that the contract signed in June 2011 between the Department of Physics and the EFA srl (Italian society in which Smith is involved) has been terminated due to non compliance with the conditions of the terms. There’s no relationship between the Department and the EFA Ltd. in connection with this contract.

      However, the Department of Physics has made available its experience and its equipment to carry out independent measurements on the production of heat by equipment called E-cat in order to provide an answer to the entire scientific community and the general public about the phenomenon. RESULTS OF MEASURES WILL BE PUBLISHED.

  • ostap

    Rossi=Defkalion?

    • Nonono

      Nope

    • daniel maris

      Rossi= NASA?

  • Bruno

    At this point we have nothing. We’ve never had a properly vetted validation test run by an independent 3rd party. We don’t know for sure that Rossi really did sell his 1MW ecat since the “customer”, whose identity we were supoosed to learn, conveniently chose to remain anonymous at the last minute. In fact, there are rumors that the 1MW ecat is still in Bologna. The University of Bologna terminated their agreement with him and Upsalla will probably soon follow suit. We need world class Ph.D physicists to tell HOW the damned thing works (if it does), but we don’t need them to tell us that it DOES work. Any competent engineer can do that. Just operate an ecat in self sustained mode for a few days and allow an independent 3rd party engineer to run the test. They wouldn’t even need to open up the reactor. Rossi’s strategy all along has been to say that he’ll do x, y & z and then change the plan at the last minute, offering some silly excuse as justification. Then all the Kool-Aid drinkers postulate about how brilliant the change of strategy is when, in reality, Rossi is just changing gears because he milked the last deception dry. I smell a scam.

    • HanzJager

      I’ll stop reading after, “At this point we have nothing”. I’m sure the rest of the post is full of similar insight.

    • Dr. No

      No tests needed. We need several hundreds 10 kW E-Cats sold to various business users all around the world. Business users do not require the same protection as private users, so E-Cat can be sold “as is” just now – Mr. Rossi claims he has has hundreds or more of such modules available. If he IMMEDIATELY sells half of his stock and it would work, he will be billionaire next Christmas.

    • ostap

      “Then all the Kool-Aid drinkers postulate about how brilliant the change of strategy is when, in reality, Rossi is just changing gears because he milked the last deception dry. I smell a scam.”

      Reasonable point.
      Why need for University to prove such a simple device like the claimed ecat? What a scientific job those scientist are going to make for months with the ecat? Turn it on and off? Reverse engineering?
      It is silly. ‘Rossi has nothing’ best point so far.

    • jfab

      “Just operate an ecat in self sustained mode”

      Haven’t you heard, the e-cat can’t run on self-sustaining mode anymore, it has to be perpetually pluged, so says Rossi.

      Oh so what they meant by “perpetually”…

  • jfab

    Please understand that Rossi needs Defkalion and Defkalion needs Rossi. The whole story of Defkalion copying Rossi and then going on the own seems to imply that Rossi actualy has something. They both give the illusion of credibility to each other. It might turns out this was all scripted and Rossi and Defkalion are part of the same scam. Same with NASA’s lunies (Bushnell who happens to not only believe in LENR/CF but in FREE energy from zero-point field as well, and Zawodny) who need to perpetuate the idea that cold fusion (or lenr whatever) might be true/functional just in case they happen to be right and benefit of their multiple patents. It’s all about money and profits, not much about anything actualy “free” nor about humanity.

    Please just think about that. Thank you

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      What about all of the other scientists who have attached their name to LENR? How many of these guys are loonies?

      Here is a list of 14 people, about 10 of which are Ph.D.s at major labs who have claimed to have achieved the Nickel + Hydrogen = heat reaction: http://nickelpower.org/2011/12/30/replicators-as-if-december-30-2011/

      How many physicists does it take to change a lightbulb — urrr mind.

    • daniel maris

      Wow – the conspiracy is getting bigger!

  • Tom Krieg

    Gosh, if only Apple would do something for mankind with their billions. Like fund one of these start-ups to get this whole process running. What could it hurt? They are the only one that are not intimidated by oil companies and governments and they sure know how to bring a product to market.

    If Bill Gates’ foundation can do so much good for the world why can’t Apple?

    Oh well, I can dream…..

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Please note that Bill Gates is the philanthropist, not Microsoft. So I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

      • Tom Krieg

        With a little bit of imagination, Apple could set up a foundation as did Bill Gates. The essence of the statement is that it would be an admirable gesture to mankind for them to develope a mechanism to make the funding of the development moot.

        It does no good to narrowly deflect the essence of position when all along trying the impress readers with misguided nuances.

      • Cat

        Note that Apple and Bill gates have very little in common besides a bit of stock. Bill Gates ran Microsoft, not apple. When Steve jobs was still alive and in charge of apple this seems like the kind of project he would have apple invest in if he thought it’d work. The OP was just hoping a big forward thinking company would help out, in contrast u are comparing apples to windows. 😉

        • Tom Krieg

          Clearly, you miss the point.

  • Pachu

    Ill repeat my question, does in any place has been stated what are the objetives or goals of these studies ? Formally. “Test” is vague.

  • Tom Krieg

    Lest we forget, Rossi has also been in communication with MIT. Another option.

  • edog

    oh no.. im getting confused!!

    • admin

      Sorry, trying to help you get your post in the right spot!

  • Skeptic

    No. A simple demo would be the key to succes.
    No need to dismantle an ‘e-cat’.
    Just a lab-demo which generates heat for a week.
    Observed by an independant observer.
    With power going in and out monitored.

    That would be the key to Rossi’s succes.
    Not smokescreens about the number of universities that deny having contact with Rossi.

    These are just strawman-arguments. They are put forward by Rossi for us to debate about, to lead us away from the fundamental questions:

    Why Don’t You Demo One???
    (hint: because you can’t)

    • edog

      agree!

    • Pachu

      To continue your logic, if Defkalion makes that demo (as they are doing, will see).

      Dont that means Rossi’s has something too ?

    • Lévi

      absolutly! it’s a machine, if it works, it works, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. It’s like a car, if it rolls by it self without pushing or pulling it, or rolling up or down hill, breaking Newtons every law, than it works. I don’t care what’s under the hood, keep it closed but start the darn engine, so I can get in and go somewhere. He is going to make a million of these things… this year????????
      Actually, maybe he is right. It ‘s not a bad comparasent, imagine… you have a working car in the middle ages, just showing it without driving it, nooo one would believe you, they probably burn you also…he can save his live showing it working, but maybe ‘they’ ‘ll burn him
      after all… :I
      Why did he go public in the first place, with a device as he claims(cheap and easy to build), he must be able too find an investor immediatly.

  • s

    I believe in LENR and I believe Rossi might have something that produces excess energy for at least a brief period of time. The big issue is Rossi’s company had a signed legal document with certain terms that were supposed to be legally fulfilled. According to the university, the legal requirements in the signed contract were not fulfilled sufficiently, which resulted in the contract being terminated. People can spin this in a positive light if they wish. But, from a credibility standpoint, there are few things worse for a business than to have a signed legal contract terminated in such a rapid and public manner, if that was the case.

    • admin

      I think the non-payment was probably due to both a lack of funds and a change in strategy. Rossi’s strategy of a rush to low-cost mass production is relatively recent.

      Now it may make much more sense to him to have two universities independently validate the tech so the public can be given more credible evidence. Plus, if Rossi doesn’t have to pay for the testing to be done it is all the better for him

      • Tom Krieg

        I may have my facts wrong and if so please correct me. As I recall; (1) payment for the first systems is not until the unit is accepted by the customer, (2) the first units had to have some gaskets and other plumbing repaired or replaced, (3) the monitoring and control instrumentation was replace with the NI equipment, and (4) 12 other 10 MW units were being built. This may delay shipment and subsequent payment.

        There may be a cash flow problem here resulting in a non-payment, or he just found other universities that were eager to do the work without payment. ….. Conjecture on my part. I am not there but, I have seen it before in other start-ups.

    • xy

      How about this (it’s Italy after all): AR’s friends at Bologna Uni found out they might do that test without anybody paying anything, just within the budget they get from the state. And AR would pay them personally some hundred thousand USD cash avoiding the Uni and the taxes.