Defkalion Invites Organizations to Perform Tests on Hyperion Reactors

Praxen Defkalion Green Technologies issues a press release today inviting “internationally recognized and reputable scientific and business organizations” to conduct tests on PDGT’s “bare” Hyperion reactors.

The press release outlines the types of tests that invitees will be permitted to carry out along with test methodologies and measurements. The tests will center around measurements of excess heat, amount radiation produced, overall COP (energy in vs. energy out), and reactor stability. PDGT states that they expect that a COP in excess of 20 will be measured. Those carrying out tests will be free to publish reports of their findings in any venue they choose, including on Defkalion’s website. The release states that independent tests have already been scheduled, and now more evaluators are invited to participate.

It’s interesting to see that Defkalion, Andrea Rossi’s erstwhile partner, is reaching out to the scientific and business community in a way that many people would like to see Rossi emulate. We still, however, have yet to hear from any third party that has witnessed a working Hyperion reactor — it will be very interesting to finally get some first-hand reports of Defkalion’s technology.

  • Skeptic

    I think Defkalion and Rossi are one and the same.

    There is *NOTHING* about ‘defkalion’ on the web before Rossi came along, and the whole ‘defkalion’ website is only about the e-cat (which they call hyperion).

    So:
    – Rossi and Defkalion came around at the same time (2011)
    – They both claim to produce the same product
    – Neither of them is willing to give a product for verification
    – Neither of them feels the need to understand the reaction taking place.

    Basically, they’re making similar claims and both lack evidence.

    Defkalion is clearly not an ‘established manufacturer’, approached by Rossi. Rossi invented them to make his story about manufacturing credible.

    Same pattern. Same claims. No Working Demo.
    No Explanation of the reaction.

    • Ged

      The plot thickens!

  • ronb

    Excuse me but why don’t they put a hole in the metal box, put in the alpha/gamma ray detector in it, power up the reactor and we watch the meter.
    It seems everyone is missing the point thinking of heat. A candle makes heat, what makes gamma rays?

    • Steve Robb

      Who cares. If the system makes heat and very few gamma rays and they are shielded then you have something very useful especially if the COP is high and it is cheap to build.

    • Skeptic

      The shielding on the drawing is 3mm.
      You don’t need a hole in the box, that shielding will stop nothing.
      If it produces gamma radiation, there is no way it can get approved with 3mm of shielding.
      Tell you more: If it produces gamma radiation, it will take years of testing to approve it. ‘Radiation’ tends to sound scary.

  • http://www.neotreksoftware.com Allan Shura

    We will know if this is real not soon.

    Three months since the Rossi test with
    stated 3 month delivery time on his 10MW
    plant orders and hopefully he has already manufactured components for many but all
    we have seen is one.

    I can’t speak for the companies involved
    but if this gains any momentum race is on.

  • sapain

    pretty straight forward test. two cells, 1 loaded the other empty, both with thermalcouples inside. both heated at same rate, when power is removed from both cells and the loaded cell produces heat and the empty cell cools presto, lenr goes viral.

  • clovis

    Hi, Guys.
    Good to hear that DGT will finely show their hand,
    It just better not be the same hand that mr.Rossie is holding.
    And if it is the same hand , i would not expect Mr. Rossie to stand still and let them take over his discovery , i know i wouldn’t.
    in the new patent laws just enacted here in the US i understand that the first guy to demonstrate the design or machine successively they get ownership of said configuration.

    • http://www.ConservativeBedtimeStories.com Innocent

      Yeah and the tooth fairy has wings… Look I am fighting a patent law suit right now and it is costing millions of dollars and there is a chance the Judge might find against us ( though I have no idea why I invented the stupid thing )

      The point is that until you have had to fight for a patent you don’t understand just how messed up everything is.

  • Roberto

    I personally do not believe that a peer-reviewed proof would really stop skepticism. It would just shift to the subject that operated the test.

  • Jeff

    But do read the press release all the way to the end – they pick the methodology, and calorimetry is explicitly forbidden.

    • sapain

      they picked the most simplist and striaght forward test, showing heat production using two identical cells (1 loaded the other empty) with thermalcouples. any outside influences would effect both equally. if loaded produces heat while empty cools with power off it`s hard to dispute. u get a better test when everything is stripped to just the heat the cells produce, this is better than flow.

    • Robert Mockan

      Forbidding calorimetry means Defkalion is playing games, just like Rossi, trying to do public relations without releasing any useful information that can be verified.

    • Steve Robb

      If you measure the temperatures of the coolant entering and leaving the system and know the flow rate of the coolant then you can do an energy balance on the system. That amounts to a calorimetery experiment. You may loose some accuracy by not accounting for convective and radiatative heat transfer from a poorly insulated system but if the COP and output are high the error is relatively small.

      • Robert Mockan

        True. Except that is not what they plan to do. Instead, “..The difference of integrals between the Temperature/Time logged plots of inner thermocouple measurements of the two Reactors. This results to the calculation of the absolute excess heat energy produced by the active Reactor.” That does not in fact calculate “absolute excess heat energy”, but only makes a comparison of temperature/time integrals. At best one may say a relative temperature difference will be measured between the DUT (device under test) and inactive reference.

        • Steve Robb

          I reread their announcement if they meant to measure the temperature in the core and on the outer surface of the reactor then they have garbage. I suspect much has been lost in the translation as I am sure they are not that stupid or think everyone else is. Anyhow that would not allow any calculation of the COP as was one of the stated goals.

      • Robert Mockan

        Or to put it a different way-

        Temperature is not thermal energy (or heat energy).

        Thermal energy is not thermal power.

        Thermal power per unit mass of active material is the ONLY information that needs to be released to prove Defkalion claims. How much thermal power per unit mass of the active material (allegedly nickel and hydrogen) is there?

        What is the god damn number?!

        That is all Rossi, Defkalion, or any body, needs to reveal to prove their claims, when others make that same measurement to verify it!

        That is it! Everything else is just noise.

        • Roger

          I agree, you could have a chemical reaction or battery doing the heating – it could stay hot for a long time without requiring much power. A real test would be to circulate water round the units and through a large water cylinder – thermocouples on the cylinders. Leave it going for a couple of days – it takes an awful lot of energy to heat a large body of water.
          If this is true LENR – call it fusion of some kind then the potential energies are massive (ten times that of fission) – I would be surprised that the claims are so modest, or maybe this is not the most efficient combination of elements (H and Ni).

          • Robert Mockan

            According to the Defkalion description of their “cooling system”, during the tests, IF the temperature rises too high, they are going to blow cold air through the unit(?).
            LOL! The heat capacity of air is so low it reveals the thermal power from the test units would be insignificant for their stated applications. In many ways the Defkalion “tests” are even less useful than the Rossi tests.
            Rossi at least was circulating water, and although the thermal power could not be accurately measured, observers did say it got hot.

  • PersonFromPorlock

    Statements from both Rossi and Defkalion have to date proven not to mean what they seemed to mean: we need to wait and see what happens before becoming too enthusiastic.

  • Guy Parent

    No flow calorimetry test will be done, just temperature measurements. A thermocouple could sit in a candle flame and yeld similar results.

    • Robert Mockan

      Defkalion needs to publish the results of their accelerated differential scanning calorimetry, that would completely characterize the energy generating properties of the active material in their product.

      They do have that information, because DSC IS the laboratory standard for calorimetry.

      They could not develop their product without doing those tests.

  • xy

    My fresh theory on this reality-show is: Seeing videos and news from many sources, there clearly was some significant progress made on LENR in the recent years by some of the scientific teams (say SPAWAR, NASA, Bologna, others). They tried to keep it undercover – knowing somebody of them will get hella rich. Plus they might have been silenced by somebody out of government, oil industry, army. Then Rossi came, copied and improved some of the findings, nobody to directly silence him and since he knew that other scientific teams might reach the same findings soon, he decided to go public without having it stabilized, ready for market or whatever, just to seize the competitive edge. Now all the competitiors work hard to stabilize the thing. Rossi is the only crazy man to have gone really public. Defkalion feels other competition and goes public in a professional way. SPAWAR and NASA (former) scientists rather keep almost silent until they would have it with some stealth companies backing them. So Rossi is a by product of something happening. The structures of government/business is now secretly trying to accomodate to the new situation, which might result in a war to stop the paradigm shift. Rossi and people involved might know there might be a war and they are fighting against peaople ready to start a war.

    • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

      The NASA video can also be explained by two key words that I have had some experience with when I worked at NASA: technology transfer. Don’t assume that everything you see in the video originates with NASA or SPAWAR. Here’s my take on it: It looks to me like Dr. Z went up to his boss and gave him a big cut of the action and also gave 2-3 of his employees a tiny cut of the action. NASA pays for the patent fees. NASA pays for the lawyers. Their organization within NASA patents a variation of the Nickel+Hydrogen LENR. They know it doesn’t work well and is unstable so they do a disclaimer on DrZ.com. If anything significant happens with LENR these guys will have been there first using NASA fees and lawyers. Even if they only get 1-2% of the revenue generated from any patents they are rich men. Rossi does the rest, or doesn’t. It’s the old Microsoft vs Apple strategy: “good idea glad I thought of it”.

      • Wes

        Heh heh. Slick.

    • daniel maris

      Xy

      I agree with most of what you say.

      I think a lot is going on behind the scenes. I can’t believe that military,military intelligence, foreign affairs advisors, oil and gas companies are all in the state of ignorance we are. I feel sure central government in the US,Russia, China and the major European ountires have been making detailed assessments and have inside knowledge via organisations like NASA, SPAWAR and various universities etc I think the reason Rossi hasn’t been denounced as a scammer is because he isn’t one, he has something real – though possibly initially somewhat defective and too early for the market.

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        As it stands it’s much easier and rewarding to be a sceptic and a cynic and see financial malfeasance at every step because time and again these guys Rossi, Defkalion, DrZ prove you correct and right. Besides it’s a no-lose position. If you’re wrong, super, fantastic! If you’re correct and right I told you so.

        Now if you want to fall for this conspiracy theory hokus pokus be my guest. It’s yet another explanation for what is occurring. I don’t see it but if you do more power to you.

  • Thomas Ammons

    Proof is what we badly need, not more speculation. Rossi makes a very bad judgement when he thinks he can hold out questions about the truth of his claims until he is ready to sell a product. The first company with a credible, publically demonstrated device will be the winner, will get the capital and its reward will be to take the lead in liscensing and developing the device. Rossi, who tinks he can contain the knowledge and control it to his own ends will become the megomanical, eccentric who reached beyond what he could reasonably achieve, the eccentric has been, feeding pigeons in the park.

    • Steve Robb

      No one is going to buy a product that has not been demonstrated to work. Obviously at some point there will have to be more public demonstrations and I can imagine him holding out on demos except to organizations such a UL to the very point that they are only demonstrated in stores.

      Remember that all you read online in places like this are just a tempest in a teapot.

  • Sanjeev

    http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/24/university-of-bologna-terminates-relationship-with-rossi/

    One of the univ testing promised by Rossi is cancelled. I wonder how he will survive now that DGT is clearly ahead of him by miles.

    Once the tests are published (and if they are positive), funds will start pouring in for DGT. And their licensing model will ensure that millions of Hyperions will get produced quickly.

    Positive results from the tests also mean enormous publicity and acceptance.

    • Francesco CH

      It is better to wait official statements from the University of Bologna, because there is no official statements up to now.

      • Francesco CH

        TO ALL THE PEOPLE AND THE ADMIN.

        LISTEN C A R E F U L L Y :

        KRIVIT IS TELLING BULLS**TS, I KNOW FOR SURE.

        I REPEAT: I KNOW FOR SURE

        • Steve B

          Steven B. Krivit – is funded to PROMOTE LENR and to date he has shown to be against Rossi at every turn – he has had it good there writing about failed projects for so long he himself thinks it is impossible – he should be REPLACED “FIRED” from New Energy Times.

          • Wes

            Steven B. Krivit is funded to promote Steven B. Krivit. He owns New Enery Slimes.

            Krivit is running recon for a private supporter.

        • daniel maris

          We’ll see Francesco – if you’re right we’ll pay close attention to your future statements!

        • Steve Robb

          The tiff between Krivit and Rossi has been going on for some time. Apparently Krivit is a rather pugnacious and rude individual and rubbed Rossi the wrong way. Rossi cast him out and Krivit has been hissing in his cave since then, trying to run interference on Rossi and at the same time promote LENR.

    • daniel maris

      Well we are coming towards the crunch point then…

  • stuey81_in_australia

    someone pinch me, this is as important as fire for mankind. finaly indpendent verification

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    You know what’s funny,

    Rossi is afraid of his competitors(like DGT), but the day that he has to fear his competitors is the day that the energy sector is totally dismantled.

    When defkalion claims are legit, this means that all gas companies becomes worthless in an instant. Unlike Rossi, Defkalion sells their design so other companies can build them. When Defkalion can sell such designs for example to some chinese firms. They can mass produce them very fast and in lots of BIG numbers. From that moment <e're gonna see a energy shift in a magnitute that we can't imagine yet.

    • Lévi

      right! and even that is an understatement!Only proving it works will have an tremendeous impact on the market. everyone here feels this, that’s why the emotions run so high on this site, Frank.

      What worries me though, is Rossi’s claim that he has over 50,000 pre-orders, I think it is very unlikely comparing to the 1700 believers, I think you must be a believer before you even think about ordering an Ecat, it is al very fuzzy. It looks like psychological war between Rossi and Defkalion

      • Anthony

        Well, I’m not convinced but I’ve ordered one nevertheless. But WILL need to be convinced before parting with any cash !

  • Johannes Hagel

    Its an interesting thought that inside Greece (being economically dead and hopelessly lost) a very tiny minority already knows the way out of all the troubles, if, IF it is true, that DGT has what they claim. In this case all problems will just disappear like they never had been there. I am not an expert in economics but my feeling ist it must be like that. So just lets HOPE!

  • Johannes Hagel

    This sounds like great news! And it must be very very difficult to fake a COP of 20 or more in a test lasting for 48 hours +. Or do you see any such possibility? The bigger an effect is compared to the noise level, the more it becomnes impossible to perform a scam. Or only my point of view?
    Indirectly, positive test results from DGT will also give more credibility to Rossis E-Cat and it will force him to finally allow more open testing of his devices.

    • Sanjeev

      Yes, impossible to fake. And if they fake it for 96 hours straight, they will get a noble prize for such a feat.

      They are going to offer bare cores for tests. No bells and whistles or big boxes to hide a coffee machine inside. It will be a small steel cube, that’s all.

      It will probably take only 30 mins to know its truth for a competent person. I’m hopeful now.

  • morse

    Good news ! Competition is needed for change.

    Who will be those independent testers?

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

    Defkalion rolls for A Rossi’s E-cat : wonderful.

  • Sanjeev

    Thanks for the pdf. This is a great announcement. Historical IMO.

    The test procedure is better than expected. They will have a control unit, which will be inactive. This will help to rule out any tricks.

    The test will run for 48 + 48 hours (activating the reactors one after the other). In contrast to a few hours by Rossi.

    Testing parties will bring their own instruments.

    The biggest plus is all this will be published (hopefully by named people with real faces). If this happens it will be conclusive.

    More info:
    http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=926

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    Key words “independent tests have already been scheduled”. But feel free to take a ticket and get in line.

    • Frank

      Is the ticket ‘for free’, or will Defkalion request some ‘entrance fee’ for the test?

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        I would guess it’s free. But that’s not the catch. Here’s the Defkalion schedule list and timeline:

        1. Owner’s mother tests the machine. She’ll be done in April.
        2. Owner’s brother tests the machine. He’ll be done in August.
        3. Owner’s father in law tests the machine. He’ll be done in November.

        Anyone else care to test the machine for wowie ***FREE*** !!! ?

        • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

          PS In October fiscal year ends, owner makes his money, and who cares what happens to Defkalion after that.