Clarification from Rossi About E-Cat Production — Robotized Factory Now Being Prepared

Andrea Rossi has posted a comment on his JONP which clarifies the scope and schedule of the production of E-Cats

Andrea Rossi
January 10th, 2012 at 4:05 PM

Dear Keith W:
We are making the certification .
Attention: I did not say that we will begin to deliver in August, I said we can be ready to make order confirmations in Autumn; we are right now making the engineerization of the factory ( the production will be completely robotized to squeeze down the price as much as possible) and, even if we will be very good, the first deliveries will start perhaps within the year, but I cannot promise it; I can say that the price will be lower than expected and that it will be a revolution. We are making a tremendous work with top level Partners.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Interesting points that stand out to me are:

1. Order confirmations will be made in the Autumn — this will mean that those who have made pre-orders will need to send some money.

2. Robotized factory will ensure the lowest possible price — the factory is being prepared as we speak.

3. First deliveries possible this year, but not promised.

4. “Top level partners” involved. We know about National Instruments — who else?

5. Revolution predicted by Rossi!

  • OnTheWaterfront

    Ro$$i’s college (well diploma mill really) shutdown for fraud.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_University

    • Steve Robb

      From Wikipedia: “In 1973, Rossi graduated cum laude in Philosophy of Science and Engineering at the University of Milan[5] with a thesis on Albert Einstein’s Theory of Relativity and its interrelationship with Edmund Husserl’s Phenomenology.”

      Try researching things a bit in an effort to dislodge your bigoted views.

  • Steve Robb

    In any factory there is some amount of automation. That doesn’t mean every function is automated. I suspect much is lost in translation and we read too much between the lines these days.

  • Bruno

    Blah Blah Blah. We still have no confirmation, other than from Rossi’s mouth, that there ever was a successful demonstration or that the ecat (or ecats) was sold to a real customer. This in spite of the fact that we were promised that the 28 October test would be open, run by a third part, televised on CCTV and that we’d know the identity of the buyer. So far, none of that has happened. I have gone from being very optimistic 4 months ago to simply hopeful today, and my level of skepticism increases daily.

  • georgehants

    Quote of the Day:

    The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they’re rational! …They’re never skeptical about anything except the things they have a prejudice against. None of them ever says anything skeptical about the AMA, or about anything in establishment science or any entrenched dogma. They’re only skeptical about new ideas that frighten them.

    Robert Anton Wilson

  • daniel maris

    Jimbo,

    You clearly have a closed mind. To claim that it takes 10 years to get a product on the shelves from lab experiment is obvious nonsense.

    SOME (a few)products might take that long but others don’t. In any case Rossi and Focardi began their lab experiments about 6 years ago I believe.

    • http://martin.ankerl.com/ martinus

      It can take that long, especially when it is something radically new.

      You might want to read the history of the super soaker water gun, it took 8 years until this invention was finally in the market:

      http://www.isoaker.com/Info/history_supersoaker.html

      • Steve Robb

        The Super Soaker! What a fine example to work with. Thanks for the laugh. Yeah, that was the radical world changing technology we were all craving.

  • arian
  • http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/How-To-Petition-Government-Online.htm Alex

    The nay sayers will make sceptics, thing is, they won’t be convinced even when the first units are shipping. People have a tendancy to ignore what they don’t want to see. No one wants to be denied. That’s why most people wouldn’t acknowledge or buy anything even though they know something is happening. It’s just human nature. People’s first reaction is to deny it. They ignore it, they don’t face reality because it’s too much for them to handle. The release of this technology can be a great and terrible thing, for the standard of living and planetary wellfare. We humans have allowed ourselves to be cornered into useing fossil fuels, because we are too afraid to say our leaders have screwed us over. Even though the economy will take a hard hit, I see it as ripping off the bandaid, and letting things heal. I support Rossi’s technology, even without hard evidence, because my hope for a little revenge is too great to ignore.

  • david

    I have been very open to Rossi in the past but as someone was has been an aerospace production machinist and superviser for 25 years I’m not buying the robot factory. The time it takes to set up an automated system like that is long and far more difficult and far less flexible than using human operators.
    Will it be cost effective? Maybe. But only after a long period of paying for the Set Up and only if major changes are not required. This sounds like a ploy to me, not good production engineering.

    • http://www.ConservativeBedtimeStories.com Forrest

      Depends on the complexity of the product and whether he is retooling an existing production environment or creating one from scratch.

      6 – 9 months would be about the right amount of time to create a small from scratch system that same time would allow for retooling a large existing system to the new production standards.

      Depending on the amount of modularization it could take slightly more or less time to complete either one. What is really important is the number of components and the complexities involved in the system. If the majority of the system is simply the reaction, shielding, and the control module to allow or shut down the process and then a fluid system to ‘move’ the heat then I think retooling would be the best way to go. However if someone is getting behind this and has deep enough pockets, well you can make anything happen pretty fast at that point. 40 to 50 Million would push the time table on this pretty fast.

    • Markus Meng

      With this post from Rossi, it is obvious that he may not telling us the truth. Nobody would pay for an automated and robotised factory in this stage of the project. It still makes no sense. We still can not buy version 1.01 serie products. Why going for the very final perfect one ?

      Why invest xx$ for a plant, before having the confidence that the first version 1.01 products are working properly.

      • Knighthawk

        Bingo. So many thing just continue to not add up.

        • Tomasz Wisniewski

          if indeed he is working with serius partners, then building robotic factory is possible. think about it, the second a working product like this hits the market, all possible competitors, fakes, scams, will start worldwide, predicted price some time ago was $200/kw, now it maybe even $50, if it is working, and will cost $500 per home unit, we’ll actually have a chance for energy revolution, it won’t be rich first -> middle class -> rest, it’ll be everywhere. With 3 such units (30kwh) you can run a small car WITHOUT any batteries, with engine that costs fraction of what you pay now, whole world will change. I don’t know about you but I for one am willing to wait for price that will change history.

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  • TPaign

    We’re still not sure yet if the ECAT low energy nuclear reactor (LENR) is real or a brilliant scam, but if it is real, the consequences will be both amazing and devastating. Amazing due to cheap, clean, near limitless energy. What I don’t see anyone else debating is what this could do to the present financial system. If LENR is real and commercially scalable, then energy prices, especially futures, will crash. How much equity and leverage within the financial system is based upon present energy holdings or future deliverables? How did the $35.00 barrel of oil impact mark-to-market banking financials during the last crash? What if it drops to $20/barrel with no potential rebound? The shrinkage of capital reserves due to lower energy prices could deal a devastating blow to markets. That all being said, I really am pulling for Andrea Rossi and his ECAT device, let’s all hope he really is onto something.

    • Wes

      Rest assured that the potential threat of the e-cat has been reviewed at the highest levels of “Russian Federation.” I would not be at all surprised if an e-cat has “found its way” to a Moscow lab in Gazprom for analysis.

    • http://www.ConservativeBedtimeStories.com Forrest

      The main effect this will have will be on using Natural Gas or Oil to heat homes. You have to remember that this system STILL requires energy input in order to get the desired action. The hope is however that for $10.00 of electricity you will get out $50.00 in heat or some metric similar to this.

      The System is not ‘magic’ it is simply cheaper than current fuel prices and limited to date in nature. The slope change in energy will be slow and once again the point of this system is that it is low temperature ( all things considered )

      That being said it would have a fiscal impact on many utilities the world over. This is a good thing as deflation on some goods is a bonus. However this will not be used to move your car from point A to point B from many years yet.

      • Thomas Paign

        Due to the superior energy density of liquid hydrocarbon, versus any other sort of battery or energy storage mechanism, I’d predict that the LENR generated heat would be used to create synthetic hydrocarbons, probably methanol. The E-Cat could be powering your car sooner than you think, and the cycle of creating and burning synthetic methanol (or other synthetic hydrocarbon) would be in itself a carbon neutral reaction. If E-Cat is real, I’d be investing in companies such as synthroleum, and a few of the existing petro-chem companies because they will have the technology and knowledge available to make this happen. I know many of you will hate to see the petro-chemical industry benefit from LENR in any way, but the creation of synthetic hydro-carbons will have a vital role in allowing LENR generated energy to be utilized in ways that the E-Cat can’t do directly.

        • Alain

          possible, but the conversion assume a hich price of energy, which is not the case for lenr.

          I predict rather that we build hybrid LENR cars, with a small battery just for peak power and starting. density of LENR power and energy is much higher that classic gas engine, so car won’t be bigger than today.

          maybe even they could adapt it to motorbikes, maybe even for scooter/moped or bikeassist.

          the hard point will be to find efficient thermal engine like turbines or stirling, but for that small power range…

    • daniel maris

      ON the other hand,things might even out nicely.

      If there is war in the Gulf with Iran, energy prices will be skyrocketing – so the arrival of LENR would (a) be v. welcome – this would be the perfect marketing environment both commercially and politically – and (b) might moderate the price hikes.

      Of one thing we can be sure the future is certainly unknowable to that level of detail!

  • Sanjeev

    “We are making the certification .”

    What does that mean ? Applied, applying or planning to apply?

    If already applied, can any one approach the authorities to find out if there is an application? If there is, it will be a big plus for Rossi.

    If not then its another claim. We all know that its very difficult to roll out a totally new product in 8 months when there is no prototype or a factory in place. It would take even longer to do it with robots because someone will need to design and manufacture all those robotic lathes and assemblers. Robots don’t grow on trees.

    I have a feeling that all this noise is just to discourage competitors from entering early.

    Ecat was opened and shown to public, it is indeed very simple. However, the logistics of what he claims to do in 8 months are simply mind blowing. If he does that, then it will be a major achievement in itself.

    I’ll be happy if he can produce a couple of primitive looking water tanks (with self destruct of course) and can sell them to known customers in 8 months. This is all that needs to be done.

  • sapain

    the hardest part of the operation is in set up of the creation of molds that put out 100-1000 units at a time and then making multiple molds. this alone can take 6-12 months to do, dependant on the number of casting molds and output. with the weight and heat involved, robotics is the best for speed and safty.
    rossi knows there r alot of individuals in the world that do not want lenr to escape into the public, especially the bankers. rossi is staying far away from them and anyone that may try to stop it.

  • Rock

    As I recall, one of the Cold Fusion skeptics once said that he would only believe in it if he could buy a CF generator at Home Depot. Looks like he may soon get his wish.
    Another skeptic said that he would belive in Cold Fusion only when he could use it to make a cup of tea. I believe that the e-cat makes enough steam to brew a cup of tea, although I don’t recall anyone actually using it for that. I think that providing steam for a sauna would be a better use, especially in winter.

    • Roger Bird

      Rock, you may be a Rossi-truther. I think that the sane and honest position is uncertainty.

  • Jose Pablo

    I won’t send one cent to Rossi without seeing a home E-cat working, with my own eyes.

    I won’t be fooled by “pre-orders” or nothing like that.

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    There is just one key pertinent question that must be asked and Rossi has no reason not to answer. Rossi won’t risk control of his invention by answering the question by the way.

    1. Are there any investors? We don’t need to know their names, we just need to know whether or not there is lots of money coming in which would be a big motive for Rossi to continue this facade.

    For all we know he might be earning $1,000,000 Euro per year as CEO and by Autumn it won’t matter one way or another what happens. He will be set up for retirement for life.

    • Frank

      Why would you grant Rossi only the salary of a CEO.
      It seems that he has also the position of a PR-manager (he is the one who answers the questions on his weqb-site), a sales manager (he confirms the pre-orders), a R&D engineer, a supply-chain and production manager (he takes care that one million ecats will get produced in 2012) and probably the HR-director etc. etc.

      Isn’t it strange that Rossi himself has to take care about all this by himself?

      • Roger Bird

        We will see. Some of us are going to cheer because we were right. Some of us are going to be sad because we were wrong. Some will not feel either way because we had the good sense to remain uncertain.

        • http://www.neoetherics.com Jerry Shifman

          I subscribe to Bertrand Russell’s type of skepticism: “When the experts disagree, the lay person would do well to reserve judgement. When the experts all agree, then the opposite position cannot be regarded as certain.”

          • Iggy Dalrymple

            “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain

      • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

        I just want to know if there are investors or not.

        • Waiting

          Rossi, in Focus, November 18th, 2011:

          ”Those who have been following the developments of our adventure for months, like Focus’ readers have, know that the critical moment has finally gone: our 1megawat pilot plant persuaded the investors.” (http://tinyurl.com/6tbycre)

          Those were Rossi’s own words. “investors”, plural. “persuaded”, past tense.

          The official e-cat site, ecat.com, asks on the front page for people to contact them on 7 topics. Number 2 is “investment”.

          The parallels with your namesake are instructive.

    • Roger Bird

      It seems unlikely to me that Rossi is a con. People ask to buy shares or donate money, and he refuses. He works absurdly and unhealthily long hours. It is true that his invention seems to violate known “laws” of physics, but so did every other breakthru invention or discovery, like the light bulb and flight and radioactivity itself. And since LENR has been replicated numerous times. the “known laws of physics” argument is dead. And Rossi’s secrecy can be easily explained by his desire to keep his process secret until he is ready to ship and/or can get a patent.

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  • Prediction

    Rossi: “Look, free energy!”
    Skeptics: “Rossi, how does it work?”
    Rossi: “ehm, weak interaction. Look, demo with no-one present, no live feed, no critics! Hot water! Wow!”
    Skeptics: “Rossi, WTF is ‘weak interaction’? That’s not even chemistry. Or physics. What is it?”.
    Rossi: “Look, mass production!”
    Skeptics: “Rossi, designing a safe, reliable household appliance from a laboratory experiment takes 10 years. How come you do this in 2 months?”
    Rossi: “Look, factory haz robots!”

    • Erik Petersen

      lmao. i love this.

      • daniel maris

        It’s not funny and it’s not clever. 🙂

        Firstly, it doesn’t account for Focardi being involved in prototype development, and being convinced of Rossi’s work.

        Secondly, it doesn’t account for the enthusiastic involvement of National Instruments in developing the Rossi device.

        • Jimbo

          1. Focardi. Woo! So what? I don’t recall him being designated the authority on what’s real and what isn’t.

          2, That’s like saying Bandini was enthusiastically involved in the Oklahoma bombing.

          • daniel maris

            So you are saying Focardi has been scammed, despite himself having observed and developed LENR.

            And you are saying NI are a naive outfit easily fooled by a scammer into aiding his fraud.

          • Jimbo

            Daniel Maris,
            I am saying that I have no particular reason to believe Focardi. Who is he? Some physicist in Italy. There are thousands of physicists out there. Some are geniuses, some are idiots. I have no basis upon which to trust Focardi or value his opinion above other people’s. Perhaps you are an expert in Focardi’s prior work and are intimately familiar with his standing in his particular research community. If not, why are you impressed?

            As for National Instruments, they will sell equipment to anybody with money in their pocket. There is no evidence of any more significant relationship between Rossi and NI than that of customer and supplier. So, big deal.

        • Roger Bird

          Daniel, it is funny, but you are right. The skeptics deliberately ignore so much that it makes them look foolish.

    • Sparks

      Sweet! LOL, if he does have investors, they must be terribly gullible to think their money is going to produce a mass-production factory, complete with robots and robotic programming, by August. Especially naive to think the mass-production model can be based on a prototype that has stability problems, if it works at all. PLEASE, GIVE ME A CRACK AT THESE INVESTORS!! I’ll bet I can sell them an idea or two as well!

  • Jimr

    I wonder if all the needed sensors and valves needed to control the Ecat thru National Inst. control program will be added at construction time. At minimum it will need,output temp sensor of liquid/steam, pressure sensor and control valve for the hydrogen, input liquid control valve, heater control and possible sensor, and RF ( radio freq.) control. A total system with more that one Ecat would need a multiplex unit fed by all the Ecats that could be scanned and controlled by NI’s program. Also some type of alert/alarm system.

  • Bob Johnson

    I think this site should post a “what if Rossi is wrong?” story.

    • Steve Robb

      Why don’t you write the article and submit it. I’m sure if it is cogent and well written it will be posted.

      • Sparks

        Heck, even if it isn’t, based on current precedent.

    • Steve Robb

      Let me help you get started:

      1. The hopes of a small cadre of people who have been following the e-cat story will be sorely disappointed in Rossi, Focardi, et al.

      2. Rossi will have wasted a lot of his own money as I have not heard of him taking any from others. As a result, hopeful investors will be left with their cash in their pockets.

      3. Researchers in LENR will continue on, one of which will eventually produce an economically useful device.

      4. There will be a horrendous noise not heard as all the sites following the e-cat story are overwritten by new data.

  • arian

    Piantelli’s Nichenergy website went live:
    http://www.nichenergy.com/

    There’s not much there yet, except for a logo and contact info.

  • Roger Bird

    I find Rossi’s product development plan to be less plausible than the reaction itself. Has anyone visited Rossi recently to witness the flurry and bustle that would be necessary to get all of this done?

    • Sparks

      Your point is exactly what is bothering many of us. The credibility of Rossi’s scientific claims has been undermined (fatally, I think) by the implausibility of his business plan claims. It appears that the man is incredibly naive, and he does not have anybody who is NOT naive on his team, or they would have suppressed Rossi’s dispatches out to his followers. At this point, anyone with business or manufacturing experience can see Rossi as a man who makes exagerated and unrealistic claims.

      • Knighthawk

        It’s crystal clear to anyone paying attention. I don’t know if this e-cat device is a total joke but I do know Rossi releases to those following him make him look like one.

    • Sojourner Soo

      His wife, Madeleine, is doing all the work on the organizational/business side of things. She is an MBA and more than qualified, no doubt. She lets Rossi do all the talking, while she does all the organizational work. Behind every successful businessman, or politician, there is always the good wife. At least, I’ve heard that countless times. Isn’t there a television show…?

      • Sparks

        Sorry, I’ve known a lot of MBAs. Now if his wife has set up manufacturing organizations in the past, that would be a different matter. But the fact that she is not silencing Rossi’s mass-production claims for this year speaks volumes and undermines her credibility, as it does the credibility of any team he may have assembled.

      • Roger Bird

        I hope that the good wife will make sure that he gets enough sleep and eats healthy food. He is 61 years old, and I would hate for this to all end unresolved with him dying.

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  • georgehants

    Allowing as always that it is true—
    One man et al can archive what Rossi is doing without the incompetent government, science administration, premier scientific journals (comics) or any other expert messing everything up with denials and debunking.

    One day science will stop saying things cannot be done, it is a myth, I don’t believe it, new science frightens me, and follow the evidence and do the damn research on every subject and anomaly, regardless of crazy Dogma based denials.

  • Stanny Demesmaker

    Let me give this another angle:

    What he says is that he is going to build a more or like automated factory where everything is robotized as much possible what does that mean? that he doesn’t need alot of employees(jobs) to work at his factory. And if this technology is valid, that that means that he kills 20% of the economy with a factory with a limited amount of people. Damn those are crazy times we’re living in.

    • http://martin.ankerl.com/ martinus

      I believe automation is a good thing. Where would we be without it? Nobody would be able to afford a car except the super rich. Do you prefer that? Automation replaces the repetitive jobs nobody wants to do anyways. Do you want to stand in a factory just fixing two screws into a box the whole day? I’d rather develop robotized machines that make automation easier which is a much more interesting task.

    • Tom

      The economy can ONLY be helped by better resource management. With automated factories, human resources can be better utilised for medical/scientific research, creative tasks and improved government. To tell people their time is best spent at a repetitive job earning money is not economical at all.

      • Robert Mockan

        On the other hand, what aspect of human “resources” allows them to be “better” utilized?
        See here to learn how close humans are to becoming obsolete and unnecessary. Unless people decide the value of lives should not be measured by their utility, they do not have a future.
        http://imagination-engines.com/iei_cm.htm

        • Tom

          If this Creativity Machine idea can work, can it paint a truly beautiful picture? Write a beautiful song? Beauty stems from each individual mind individually and if a computer can join the party then I’m all for it. I just don’t believe anything a computer does can undervalue the great minds we have each of us been granted.

          “We live only to discover beauty. All else is a form of waiting.”
          – Kahlil Gibran

    • Lajos

      Ludites screemed bloddy murder whenewer a job is lost to new technology. Why would be that one different?
      I only have one question: why are you not in cotton picking business? The mechanisation killed millions of jobs, did it not?
      Interestingly, those people now hate their cushy computer jobs and went their anger though spewing luddite stupidity onlione. Myabo Rossi will help you by giving cheap heat to warm the mud many like to sit in, and watch the entire world pass by.

    • Philip

      Actually, this would have a hugely beneficial effect on the economy as a whole. Especially once the technology becomes more developed and electricity is generated with it. It will compete with the existing energy, but an across the board reduction in energy would reduce the cost of just about every industry. That would mean not only lower energy cost, but lower manufacturing costs and cheaper consumer goods. Consumers would have the extra money they save on cost of living to spend on other products. The overall effects of greater productivity and cheaper cost of living would far outweigh any negative effects of a few less jobs in a factory.

  • Brad Arnold

    This just shows that Rossi has convinced some heavy weights that his technology is valid for them to put up the gigantic amount of cash necessary to propel production along at this breakneck speed.

    Furthermore, to sell that many units he will have to advertise (either paid or through publicity). Frankly, I didn’t expect Rossi to ramp up production this fast. Man, this is BIG!

    • Jimbo

      So heavyweights have put up gigantic amounts of money to do this? And where is that money going? Who is getting it? Oh yeah. Secret partners doing tens of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure development and manufacturing scale up. And even though companies like Apple and General Motors can’t use their clout to keep any of their activities secret, the all-powerful Andrea Rossi can set wheels in motion in total secrecy. What a guy!

      • Knighthawk

        I know right all these heavy hitters and investment going into this and not a one wants to speak about it. Yeah right.

  • http://www.lepost.fr/perso/sophareth/ sophareth camsonne

    See this exemple see below from Steve Jobs:
    *Convaincu, Jobs réclama du Gorilla Glass en quantité sous six mois. Un délai trop court pour Corning qui n’avait pas les moyens de production adéquats. « Ce n’est pas un problème » lui répondit Jobs qui l’invita à tout mettre en oeuvre pour y parvenir. Une usine de production d’écrans LCD fut reconvertie en une nuit pour produire ce verre en quantité industrielle et une équipe d’ingénieure et scientifique fut détachée pour travailler sur ce projet avec Apple. D’autres collaborations furent engagées rappelle Week dans l’ouvrage, Jobs espérait qu’il devienne possible un jour de créer un verre et une céramique suffisamment solides pour que l’iPhone n’ait plus besoin d’armature métallique.

  • Lu

    All this seems to indicate that we will (or should) be able to see an actual product well before orders are taken.

    No order from me though until the product is revealed and independently verified–although I am willing to be an early adopter and take some risk.

    Ditto for Defkalion. And not to take away anything from Mr. Rossi, but if Defkalion’s is available and has a COP of 25-35 (versus Rossi’s 6), well that will probably be a better buy over the long term given that the cost of the reactor is small compared to the cost of energy. In fact Rossi can probably give his E-cat away for free and it still won’t make up the energy savings of the Hyperion.

    There are a lot of ifs here but I’m rooting for both–may the best reactor win!

  • Kc

    Will this involve Dr. Robotnik?
    If so, I’m out.

  • Robert Mockan

    Automating factory production? Uh huh. That can work after a factory has developed production, then converts to automation. I wish Rossi would stop making me cringe every time he explains how he is planning to build and sell product. Sure, one can make the flow charts and use lab view terminals to program the process controllers, and the mechanical arms and vision systems can be trained through their motions, but even the Japanese, who are experts at factory automation, need lead times of a year or more to debug their systems. And they have trained factory workers to fall back on when the inevitable system bug causes a crash and downtime when shipments are already late, to at least keep the pace.
    But anyway, good luck Rossi!

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      I’m with you on this Robert. While I believe that the e-cat works approximately as billed, I think Rossi’s idea of truth is a bit different than my own. I will be shocked if he has a factory in autumn that vaguely meets the definition of “robotized”.

      • Iggy Dalrymple

        Bruce, I agree that a robotized factory this year is a long shot. Like Newt Gingrich, Rossi has no thought unspoken. However, some plumbing companies, like American Standard, possibly already have robotic production of similar shaped devices. American Standard is a manufacturer of water heaters, air conditioners, and the Apollo Hydro home heating system.

        I’m betting that muffler and catalytic converter manufacturers also could modify their products to Rossi’s specs.

    • dandelion

      The e-cat is a VERY simple device to build, very little challenge to robotise a factory that produces such a simple device – and there is plenty of experience in producing boilers. It’s nothing fancy, not a car, not a processor, not a complex circuit, not a plane, it is just a simple glorified square boiler.

      • Scott H

        He did say that the 10KW reactor is a more simple design then the previous model.

      • Robert Mockan

        Hot water heaters are also very simple devices (and more simple than an E-Cat). If it were cost effective to automate their production, the factories making them would have been automated years ago.

        • daniel maris

          The economics may be different here. In effect he may be producing something that is basically pretty simple, that could be produced at $1000 but maybe he can sell at $1500 (because of the energy gain for the consumer) and perhaps that gives him a margin for robotisation. And maybe he wants robotisation, because that means he can expand very quickly with the burdens of administering a large staff?

          I’m not letting him off the hook – he still has to prove he has anything. I certainly won’t be parting with any money until we have something like real proof.

          • daniel maris

            That should have been “withOUT the burdens”

    • Iggy Dalrymple

      From Vortex:
      Yamali Yamali
      Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:39:12 -0800

      “I work for a large German car manufacturers in engine development. When we put
      out a new engine, it takes about nine months from the last prototype to go-live
      of an assembly line. Most of that time is spent in tool development (tools
      (“werkzeuge”) is what we call everything we need to make and assemble the parts
      we produce ourselves plus whatever components and subsystems we sourced out to
      suppliers), calibration and production testing. I’d expect an e-cat to consist
      only of a small fraction of the parts we need in an engine. On the other hand
      we’ve been doing that forever and Rossi is just starting out. Provided he’d get
      some professional, experienced help and doesn’t plan to build his own factory
      first, he should be able to run mass production at, say, Tazzari or a similar
      outfit by mid 2012. It sounds neither conservative nor overly optimistic – as
      long as the prototype he currently has really works and doesn’t require any
      fundamental redesigns.”

      • Pipmon

        I am dumbfounded by the complete overlooking of his very candid comment ” and even if we are very good, the first deliveries will start perhaps within the year, but I cannot promise it”.
        So where does everyone get the “by August” or “by autumn” or any similar schedules bit? Read much?

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