Rossi: Sales of Small E-Cats Will Begin in Autumn of 2012

In an article reviewing new energy technologies of 2011, Sterling Allan of PESN provides a quote from Andrea Rossi regarding the sales of the 10 kW E-Cat units intended for domestic use. Rossi tells Allan,

We will start in Autumn the sale of the domestic E-Cat. We are organizing the production of 1 million pcs, to make a price enough low to allow to anybody to buy it….

Had I accepted to enter the trap of the validations, all would have been stopped by a horde of wannabe competitors.

By the way, making 1 million pcs and very low prices, the reverse engineering becomes a hobby, like to make yourself your car or your computer. The third-party-validators will party toying themselves with the E-Cat they will buy. Yes, We Cat!

Rossi’s steadfast insistence that no independent third party validation of his technology has been motivated by his determination to maintain a competitive advantage in the LENR industry. There is a case to be made that independent testing could be carried out without giving away any of his secretes, but Rossi has not been convinced that this is the case. He has said repeatedly that he considers people who offer to test and validate the E-Cat as potential competitors, capable of stealing his ideas.

If Rossi can put these small E-Cats on the market by this Autumn without anyone else being able to come close to matching him in product availability and price, Rossi will have pulled off a significant feat which would be hard to overcome, especially if he keeps his “we will not be undersold” pledge. One should not, however, underestimate the technical and commercial (and maybe legal) ingenuity of potential competitors — a field as new and enticing as LENR, once widely recognized as legitimate will likely see a gold rush type frenzy in which all kinds of attempts will be made to capture portions of the new market.

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  • http://www.grupoice.com Jorge Jimenez

    I think the desperation to be in the hands Ecat surpasses common sense reason that we have to these events. Indeed, we might want it you can think about these events, but the truth will be exposed and all will be clear very soon. At least, I hope this new year will not continue to speculate further. I hope that 2012 is the year of the truth, palpable evidence of live and live, for everyone to get your own Ecat, that so much has been announced.
    If what we saw in 2011 was a lie, because all would have been very naive to be fooled by a mass hypnosis, but I can never believe this, only fear.

  • George

    If Rossi is interested in protecting his competitive advantage he should patent his device. In order to patent he would have to reveal his catalyst. I can only assume that since he is not doing this, he is hiding something and is perpetrating a fraud. I fully believe in and support LENR. However, I have been in business and lost enough money to know a fish when I smell one.

    • georgehants

      George, if you have been conned many times, I think you might stop blaming the people who have conned you and look a little nearer to home for the blame.

    • http://www.toys-things.com.au Lee Mazengarb

      I for one do not blame him nor am I concerned about lack of patenting.
      Patenting would reveal to all how his e-cat works and worse, yet, would allow patent offices to still deny him and spread the tech around.

      I would not patent the product nor would I reveal just how it works.

      Is general rule of something totally new. Do not reveal how it works. In fact, build it in a sabatage system to destroy its inner workings if opened up…..Viva battlefield earth.

      If it generates power as described then thats good enough for me and good enough to sell.
      No need to satisfy scientists and provide a new physics laws etc to explain it. That can come later. But is not necessary.

      After all Earth was the centre of the universe for um how long with no proof and there were no other planets in the universe for how long etc etc.

      Because its not entirely understood doesnt mean we shouldnt try n use it.

      I’ll be buying 1 of these e-cats, if only to test it n use it. I’m sure many will and many more will be trying to build 1 as well. I know I am curious, if only to get rid of the oil and energy companies strangle hold.

  • georgehants

    From Defkalion Page.

    jhadj wrote:
    According to my calculations, 4 mega-Hyperions can steam a Post-Panamax balk cargo ship, I suppose for 6 months or so, with no refill! Is this correct DGT?

    Defkalion replied.
    Almost accurate calculation!
    Obviously IMO certifications will be required before any such “steam come-back” application. And this is very important for us, as far as almost 18% of the DW of the global merchant fleet is Greek-owned.

    Thanks for the remark and your calculation.

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  • georgehants

    As a full supporter of Rossi and Defkalion until proven wrong, either of them can confirm the production of these units by producing an invoice showing the number of component ordered from say N.I.
    This would in no way show the customers or any secrets of the manufacturing.
    It is time for them to confirm in one way or another the validity of their claims.

    • George

      Yeah, I will create one right now in Word and send it to you. Then you will have the proof you need.

      • georgehants

        George, try not to be to silly, one would obviously need confirmation from N.I. etc.
        Sorry, I did not think anybody would be so slow that they would not assume the obvious

  • Brad Arnold

    What’s the big deal on “independent confirmation?”

    Rossi has had a number of public demonstrations of his technology, leading to underwhelming support. Do you REALLY think just one more demo, or one more endorser, will convince everyone that Rossi has a working LENR generator?

    No, as Rossi has said from the beginning: the marketplace will be the final arbitor. Take my word for it, having spend hundreds of hours trying to convince “skeptics” of the legitimacy of the Rossi E-Cat: nothing will convince these folks short of a factory assembly line producing working LENR generators like sausage.

    Can you visualize what is going to happen with the mainstream media and corporate bigwigs when Defkalion and Leonardo successfully commercialize LENR? It will be talk of the town, the next “new thing,” and the herd will stampede toward it.

    • Dave

      Wow Brad Arnold. You can’t understand the difference between Rossi’s silly desktop demonstrations that used his own instruments and a credible, independent, 3rd party test? No wonder Rossi has been able to fool so many people.

    • Robert Horning

      The big deal is that for fantastic claims, you need fantastic proof. So far, very little is being offered in terms of proof that any of this actually works as advertised, yet the claims are so amazing that it almost defies logic to even suggest that such a thing is possible.

      Even more, regardless of the scientific validity of the theory for how this works (or doesn’t work), I find the projected sales numbers to be utterly unrealistic, at least within the short term. People are going to be installing these devices in their homes, and if the cost of using these devices is not significantly lower than other kinds of heating devices or energy producing devices (like an internal combustion engine), they are going to be quite upset.

      Perhaps there are a few “true believes” who will buy these things, and for them it will be an easy sell. But are those kind of people going to be buying a second, third, and so forth device when it doesn’t really work in the first place?

      If it works as advertised, I will be among the first to apologize for my skepticism. But my experience with things like this is such that you are usually safe to be skeptical and use your money, time, and efforts to other more worthy causes than something which seems likely not to be working at all. Demonstrations are one thing, having it in my home or a neighbor’s home and seeing it work with my own two eyes is something else entirely.

      Still, for the price that Rossi is asking for these devices, I am going to be hesitant to buy one simply because I can’t really trust Rossi as being honest toward me.

      • http://www.ConservativeBedtimeStories.com Forrest

        Robert,
        When producing something en mass, you do not HAVE to produce them all at once. For instance the idea of producing 1 million units and selling them all at once is as you say, ridiculous. However this is not what will happen, the concept of production is to set an amount that you will produce and then price components accordingly. So If I go to a company and suggest I will be purchasing a million widgets from them or their competitor and I would like to know thier pricing. I would not purchase the million widgets at once, but rather it would be a purchase order over time. If they are assured a million units what will they charge me. This goes into my manufacturing and price calculations and viola, I know where I can price my unit at.

        So it sill be interesting to see where this goes. TO be honest I think this would be the approach I would take, if I could not get a patent, you have to be first to market. If I let everyone see what I am doing and I cannot get a patent then I WILL NOT be first to market. If I cannot get a patent then ANYONE can produce it after the fact.

        So how would you go about marketing a revolutionary product that you have been turned down for a patent? Go to a University and have them demonstrate it so that every other facility in the world could replicate it? Just curious.

        As it happens I have had several things patented myself and I still am fighting multi-million dollar lawsuits against people who simply stole what I created.

        Especially when you get into international Patent law lol.

        • Robert Horning

          You do not need a patent to manufacture things, and in a great many ways with the way that technology works today a patent is all but useless anyway. The only thing you have to worry about is to have some idiot filing a patent on something after you have been producing something, and then needing to hire lawyers to nullify that patent.

          I have not bothered to patent any of my inventions explicitly because I can invent something new literally every day (and often have). My main worry is some jerk trying to keep me from using my own invention. Furthermore, I have known personally people who have lost tens of thousands of dollars to patent attorneys for completely negligible benefit other than a cute way to drain bank accounts for otherwise needy families with false dreams in a thoroughly corrupt political system that does not achieve any of its goal.

          Perhaps you have figured out how to make money with the patenting process. If so, you are a rare person and I would seriously like to talk to you as your story is one I have never been able to confirm even exists…. sort of like finding a Dodo Bird or a Passenger Pigeon that has been ignored for the past century. I’ve heard they exist, but I’ve never seen them and all reports of them ever existing seem to be trapped in the mythical past and certainly not the present. Yes, I am completely serious about this too.

          Enough about my ripping the patent process to shreds. BTW, if I had in my hands something like an E-cat, I would indeed go to the local university in the town where I live, contact the Physics department, and conduct a demonstration for them and even leave the device for them to play with for the next several months while some grad students played with the thing. If I was to be in business locally to sell E-cats, I would even be paying for a research grant out of my own money to investigate this device. That is the standard I am expecting before I can convince others to buy this device from me, if I were to sell it. I expect that same standard in terms of others who are going to sell this device to me as well.

          Either those scientific papers are going to be forthcoming, or this whole endeavor is going to be definitively proven as a fraud. My money is currently on the fraud side, and the fanaticism I’m seeing lately convinces me all that more that the fraud is much more likely.

  • arian

    Defkalion GT

    The 45kW multi-reactor Hyperion’s geometry and functionality allow us to fit 115 rack mounted of such units within a 20ft typical cargo container, leaving enough space for the heat management systems and the external heat exchangers as well as the room needed for inspection/maintenance/recharge. That is a 5175 kW (thermal) unit scalable from 5kW to 5,175MW* for industrial applications, not a one-megawatt device.

    The range of the MW Hyperion products will appear in the Greek market first, following the 45kW Hyperion licence and entry in the market within 2012.

    Happy new year to you and to all our forum members and guests
    DGT

    (*) arithmetic notation following the European/Greek system. 5,175 MW is 5MW and 175kW.

  • jack

    Who are the biggest entities, the oil companies or the central Banks. I think its the Central Banks. The banking system is at a period where credit has peaked because western world consumers are tapped out with too much debt built up over 35 years. To keep the music going, consumer debt would need to be reduced.Reducing energy costs would achieve this aim and consumer spending would be freed up. The ECat would be a win scenario for Central Banks and the financial system.Combining this with the regulators catch 22, the wind is certainly blowing in the right direction for LENR. This technology will be implemented sooner or later, its only a matter of time, as technology tends to persistently move in a forward direction.

  • bkrharold

    This is certainly a bold statement. I know Rossi has been laying the ground work, building relationships and even courting politicians. He has successfully avoided expending his energy and time fighting the close minded skeptics. Being skeptical is a part of the scientific process. You examine the evidence without prejudice or bias, and then form your conclusions based of that evidence. If the results are not easily explained by current science, you use it as an opportunity to LEARN something new, possibly opening up a whole new branch of Science. People like Krivit are not even true skeptics in the strict meaning of the word. Krivit without any scientific background refuses to look at the evidence for LENR, or is incapable of understanding it, and yet feels qualified to refute it. He does not even understand basic caloremetry
    I particularly like Rossi’s slogan “Yes We Cat”, which looks like it was taken from the presidential campaign of Barrack Obama “Yes We Can”.
    He has made it clear that the proof will be in the pudding, that when he delivers the goods, people will be forced to accept that it is real, and that he is genuine. Good luck and best wishes to you Andrea Rossi and I pray that this New Year brings you vindication and success.

  • Luke Macmichael

    When he says they will start to sell in autumn, does that mean just taking orders and money or actual delivery of the machine and verification that it works?

    As soon as this thing is actually proven to work, everything will be completely blown out of the water. Every wealthy company, country and individual would be nuts not to invest and get involved in this as much as possible. ROI’s will be insane on just the energy production alone. There isn’t an investor in the world that wouldn’t love to get even just a 10% ROI if it’s guaranteed.

    Your talking trillions of dollars ready to invest at a moments notice if the technology actually works! It all hinges on the verifieable proof. It’s nothing without proof and everything with the proof!

  • andreiko

    Een waterval aan “goedkope” energie is begonnen met stromen en niets zal deze niagara kunnen stoppen.

  • jeffsmathers

    I am optimistic that Rossi can do what he says, however I hope he fully understands the service and support infrastucture for his 10K units will be critically important and extremely dynamic, and also needs a well thought out implementation before the first 10K unit is delivered.

    I would like to be on his servivce and distributor group since I am now one of the millions of professional Technicians and Engineers unemployed in this country but I have not yet heard from his company.

    • http://www.toys-things.com.au Lee Mazengarb

      i would like to sell them here in Australia, to go along with solar panels n wind gens we sell.

  • Jan de Jong

    This sounds all very brave, but we still have not seen evidence and tests by independent parties that demonstrate beyond any doubt that the E-cat works.
    Tests sofar at least showed serious shortcomings or raised serious questions.

    • Jim

      Yeah, that’s part of what the article is about, that no third party gets to steal his ideas by testing it.

      Did you even read the article? It’s not that long.

      • Dave

        Jim he could allow a 3rd party to test a E-Cat without opening it with him or his associates observing at all times. That wouldn’t reveal anything about how it works. Use your brain. It’s a scam.

  • Jesse

    When mine arrives I’m leaving it in the shrink wrap so I can sell a pristine first generation version on e-bay in 20 years.

  • Ron

    As for as the nuclear regulators impeding rapid progress to selling home e-cats it would seem that they are sort of between a rock and a hard place. If they on the one hand say that there is a danger from radiation that must be tested then they are admitting that there is in fact a real possibility a nuclear reaction present, which main stream science says there cannot be. On the other hand if they say there is no radiation and hence no radiation hazard, then they have no mandate to test for nuclear affects. Thus it would seem that unless they figure a way to have their cake and eat it too they may not be the major roadblock that they potentially could be otherwise.

    • daniel maris

      Yes – it is an interesting Catch 22 for them. However, as soon as they come on the market, the oil companies will be demanding action and the authorities will be testing them.

      • Scott

        daniel; I think you’re right. But it will be all established energy sectors including Federal and many State revenue departments wanting to stop it. The politicians will all say they are for it but behind the scenes there will be a huge push to control LENR.

        • Dave

          Scott, please stop with the whole “Big Oil Conspiracy” BS. Government would *love* for the E-Cat or other alternative energy sources to really work. It would be a huge boost to the world economy, which would help get them reelected. It would also make the Global Warming issue moot.

          • http://www.toys-things.com.au Lee Mazengarb

            lol, at the naivity, governments and big business have everything to lose if its real., They will stop at nothing to move heaven n earth to stop it. Our gov in Aus for example would have to payout billions in compensation to companies that have paid for privatised public utilities and distribution rights and mining rights etc. Massive compo is in the workf if the device gets to market and gov doesnt stop n control it. Not too mention companies closing n laying of staff amid claims of unfair competition and forcing government to pick up the tab and save the companies n pay their debts. All because of their greedy corrupt schemeing activities. Of course we the people would say sucked in n dont pay em a cent. Make em pay for their greed. Make em responsible for their debts.

          • http://www.lenrforum.eu Alain

            you make a usual big mistake imagining that governments, and even oil company, will try to hide LENR.
            Sure they refuse to see it, because changing one’s mind is exhausting… but once the truth appears, they will try to take the advantage.
            The governement on the opposite will win much money if LENR spread, because it can create jobs, unsubsidized jobs, and politicians will be happy to please their electors.
            The oil is also killing governement budget, and dividing energy cost by 10 will solve government deficit problem.

            opposite to conspiracist theory, the new energy will be taxed much more easily than with oil… the usual corporate profit and income tax will tax that new energy, which is 99,9% intense in job and profits.

            it won’t even be delocalized to china&alike, because they will have too much job to do for themselves locally…

            LENR is the perfect revolution, at lease for 10 years, and then china and alike will be enough developped to be classic competitors…

  • daniel maris

    It’s certainly a big ambition. It all depends I think on whether he is really getting revenue from the 1 MW E cats. If he is, then you can see how he could potentially fund this. If you can generate surplus revenue of $100 million in a year, he could you could (potentially) borrow $1 billion – that’s off the back of selling maybe 100 E cats in a year. I am not saying those figures are exact, but people need to realise that you can generate a lot of capital off the back of fairly modest revenue (as mortgaged house owners will know).

    It would all depend on the view taken by the banks or private investors.

    • http://extropolitca.blogspot.com Mirco Romanato

      IMHO, if Rossi is able to generate 100 M profit, he will be able to self fund the production of the core components of his products (the reactor).
      All other components could be readily outsourced to third parties as soon as the prototypes are working properly.

      Readily reinvesting the revenues of the first sales would allow him to scale up the production very fast without or with minimal need of loans from banks.