Defkalion Opens Doors to “Independent Expert”

Jed Rothwell, writing on Vortex-l reports of communication he has had with an “independent expert” (who for now wishes to remain anonymous) about a lengthy visit made to Defkalion Green Technology’s premises in Greece to look at progress made on DGT’s Hyperion products.

Rothwell’s contact was able to spend several days with Defkalion in which they examined machines and discuessed business plans. Rothwell summarizes the visitor’s impressions as follows:

The engineering and business operations at Defkalion are highly promising. These people are highly professional.

Their science and engineering are first rate. Their laboratory equipment is first rate.

Their upcoming products are revolutionary. They are the best LENR implementations ever produced. The expert says the prototype products are
consistent with the specifications described in the web site.

No tests were done by this observer. This is what engineers call a “site visit” in anticipation of doing a test.

One of the criticisms people have been making about Defkalion is that despite revealing a lot of information about their products, they have not been open in allowing third parties to examine their work. It appears that they are trying to be more transparent now; in addition to this visit, they have issued invitations on the forum on their website for interested parties to contact them about setting up a site visit.

Of course the one thing that people are really interested in has not been forthcoming yet — a demonstration of one of their Hyperion products in action. According to this report, however, that may be forthcoming.

  • carbonat

    I really wish this technology is for real (really), but the more I look at the vids and info that has been published so far, the more skeptical i become. Just look at this:

    http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece

    – No continuous water flow meter: Pump flow was assumed to be constant, but flow surely decreased as pressure in the chamber increased. A peristaltic pumps DOES drop flow when it is are forced to inject water at a higher pressure. So water flow was less than though during the ‘self-sustained’ operation for sure.

    – Temperature continuously decreased after heating was turned off during the ‘self-sustained’ phase. This means that water was keep boiling at expense of the temperature, as pressure also decreased.

    – Allegedly, heating must be turned on for 10 minutes every 30 minutes of operation. With heating on again boiler temperature and pressure would increase thus accumulating heat for the ‘self-sustained’ cycle.

    – Never, ever, has been unveiled a run lasting more than about 30 minutes operation. This alone is highly suspicious as the main purpose of this is to deliver almost never ending energy.

    – Since only 30 minutes were operated, any net heat balance that could eventually exist can still be explained by some sort of chemical reaction in the boiler, thus needing repeated fuel recharges for it to work.

    – No mention on which was the last time the boiler cell was recharged is ever made. One can assume without additional data that fuel recharge was done just before the test and that would need further recharge for running a next one.

    Just my two cents. And I repeat: I really, REALLY, wish I am totally wrong and this thing actually works !!

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  • Sparks

    Uh, sorry, I didn’t catch the name of the consultant. We will need his name in order for this to be news at all. Then we can judge the veracity of his statements based on his reputation. No name, no reputation. No reputation, no story.

    • Wes

      Well put; a non-story about no one.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      No story, no problem. You are the one who will be blindsided when Defkalion reveals their finished product. No skin off my nose.

      • Wes

        I will be happy to buy a working version with manufacture’s warranty.

      • DC

        Are you stating this from a position of knowledge or just plain wishful thinking? If knowledge, then please share with us. for all we know the expert may have been an expert in tooth cavities.

  • Al D

    Pertaining to using the E-cat to generate electricity or power a vehicle; I ran across this the other day:

    http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19880002196_1988002196.pdf

  • Mike

    This thread sounds more like a SLAM SESSION against Rossi and in support of Defkalion.

  • sapain

    rossi`s test was oct. 28, 2011, less than 2 months ago. people expect things instantly to satify their hopes, doesn`t work that way. rossi wants patent protection and can`t get it without opening it up to inspectors. once shown the tech is exposed with no guarinty of a patent, if brought to usa for inspection it would b confiscated at the border for been neuclear and the tech claaified as military. once lern is accessible to the average person, money and all things associated with it become valueless, lern will have the abilility to make metals at will once it is fully understood so what would the value of gold be when u can make it at will. lern is a scary field, not for the average person but to those with the most to lose, once the power to control energy is lost, the power over people is lost. this is why it`s been buried since f and p discovered it. without the internet the knowlegde of it would have stayed in the sci journals and collected dust. be patient, more and more is being discovered and researchers from hot fusion r starting to jumping ship. once the method of sustained reactions is discovered, whether by rossi or others, hopefully it doesn`t get suppressed. my point of view to rossi would b, what would u like to b remember for, freeing mankind and give the tech to the world or help keep people enslaved.

    • Wes

      There are highly successful business models which Rossi could use to “protect” his position. Rossi has a small window of opportunity to create a marketing brand, like Steve Jobs did with Apple.

      His goal should be to get the best high quality energy products he can out there, with constant improvements to create a loyal brand following.

      I would advise Rossi to take an open agressive leadership position, or hire someone who can.

  • Zoltan Freitag

    Excellent! More are the sources of this new kind of energy harder will be for the oil companies to sabotage its arise.

  • Bob

    I just paid €842.00 for 2 months gas and electric so you can be sure I want these devices to be on the up and up, but I am finding it harder and harder to keep the faith in the face of all the “anonymous” people that seem to be the only ones to confirm the machines themselves. The U.S. navy confirming the fusion is occurring is enough to make sure that it is happening, but there is no such reliable person or institution to confirm the machines. It seems that Rossi/Defkalion MIGHT be using these anonymous people to give them more time to get more sales or to get a working product. Which is it? Or is it something else. I wish I knew. I am sick of spending so much money on heat and electric.

  • Alexvs

    Now the percentage is 52% again. I must state that my skepticism refers to Rossi and Defkalion too. Nothing personal, simply a statement. However LENR is real.

  • Alexvs

    Percentage of Rossi believers drops to 51%.

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  • onthewaterfront

    An anonymous fraud expert who I completely trust, tells me Ro$$i is nothing more than a common thief.

    I can’t think of another product (except for maybe porn) that only anonymous persons buy and only anonymous “independent experts” vouch for.

    Also how can someone demanding to remain anonymous claim to be independent?

    Jed needs to go back to the Beverly Hill billys

    • Wes

      Hopefully Jed realizes that a journalist who promotes the views of anonymous source has taken the responsibility for the credibility of the views expressed by said source. His ship will rise, or sink, with the accuracy of his protected source.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Of course you understand that though Jed has not revealed the name of the “independent expert”, Jed knows who it is. This is of no small importance because Jed has staked his personal reputation on the expert when he says it is someone “whom I completely trust”. Therefore the trustworthiness of the report is equal to the trustworthiness of Jed Rothwell.

      Secondly, a number of top scientists including: Doctors Levi, Essen, and Kullander had opportunity to examine, measure and write about Rossi’s technology. Yet you imply that all reports of this technology working is from anonymous sources as well.

      Therefore, sir, I classify you as nothing more than a mocker.

      • Wes

        No skin off my nose, sir.

  • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

    Yet another anonymous person. Wow! Finally someone somewhere in some dimension has seen something resembling a LENR reactor and they turn out to be anonymous.

    Maybe they can show us some more computer renditions of what their product should look like, and we can pretend we think it is real.

    If I tell a bunch of folks I have a working ecat maybe they will invest their money in my company?

    Hey Guys.. Guess what?

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Blow away Doctors Levi, Essen, and Kullander who had opportunity to examine, measure and write about Rossi’s technology. These not anonymous physicists have “seen something resembling a LENR reactor”.

      • Wes

        They are, however, a curiously small group, subject to manipulation. I trust larger, independent groups.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        We are discussing Defkalion. I believe Andrea Rossi can produce excess heat for close to a day in length, based upon expert observations.

        I do not believe he can keep the stability going for any length of time, and that the reactor need to be cooled and cleaned between performances.

        His inability to run it for 48 hours is the alleged 15 million dollar deal breaker with defkalion.

        I think it would be legally important to demonstrate a stable machine, and he would if it was possible. As it stands the first Joe Schmoe who can show a stable device would have a very good argument that his device was the first to work properly.

        The Joe Schmoe will be able to argue that Defkallion offered Rossi 15 Million to run for 48 hours yet could not.

        Hurry up Joe Schmoe.

      • http://www.choicedowsing.com kwhilborn

        I also have many doubts about defkalion. They show us a blurry picture and a Computer mock up on a few sheets filled with typos and “specs”.

        I myself asked them on their website if anyone had ever seen a defkalion product or a picture of one. They then deleted my user account and access to the forums.

        Search kwhilborn on their forums and you will find threads I participated in, but dozens of my posts have vanished.

  • jfab

    Just like Steorn, Rossi and all other frauds, follow one simple rule: accumulate a lot and a lot of circumstantial evidences, this is what lessen the apparent need for direct evidence. Plain and simple magic 🙂

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      When it is established that Rossi and Defkalion are not fraudulant, please take your education. Please recognize that you were wrong on this one, and become a whole lot less trusting of your high ability to judge from a distance. When the dust settles a lot of folk are going to be proven as fools. Let time settle the debate.

  • ups

    Rossi and Defkalion- they’ve done a lot of noise. And obviously there are many manufacturing corporations monitoring this topic. If it is a market ready stable product, you dont need even a mainstream media and independent experts. Corporations will spread this technology after testing it by their engineers. All Defkalion needs is to have real ,working without interruptions product, generating power for consumption.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Let the little ones recognize that time must flow between basic R&D and an actual “market ready stable product”. When the actual “market ready stable product” becomes available the bickering will end. Many will eat crow, but not nearly as much crow as is merited from their drivel.

      • Wes

        Whatever.

  • Jake

    Rossi appears to be less convincing every passing day.
    There’s no marketing value in anonymous tests or anonymous customers whatsoever.

    Sadly, his case appears to be more and more like a hoax.

    • Steve Robb

      Actually it appears to be more and more true to me as more and more evidence accumulates in the form of tests, other product lines coming out and push back from the conventional physics community, your post being one of the more feeble attempts.

    • Wes

      Agreed. People making extraordinary claims (which we did not force them to make) without extraordinary proof to back up their claims lack credibility; hope and faith, perhaps, but not credibility.

      • daniel maris

        If excess/anomalous heat has been reported by scientists in over 20 peer reviewed research papers, is it such an extraordinary claim? And anyway there’s not logic in what you say. Should Einstein’s papers – which made what were then regarded as extraordinary claims – have been rejected on the basis that they were not backed up by any proof whatsoever.

        • Wes

          You may recall that Einstein was not selling a product. Rossi is. Einstein’s THEORY was accepted because it explained experimental data which, until then, did not fit any known theory. The experimental data was developed by INDEPENDENT scientists.

          Please list the peer-reviewed research papers upon which Rossi’s claim is specifically based.

          • daniel maris

            You’ve now altered the basis of your criticism by indicating that commercial interest is a factor and changing “claim” to “theory”. Not the most consistent way of proceeding. Einstein’s theory was still a claim about reality.

            You’ve also distorted what I said. I didn’t say Rossi’s claim rested on the 20 plus research papers, I said that if there were such research papers showing anomalous/excess heat then Rossi’s claim could hardly be viewed as “extraordinary”. It would simply be one more claim in quite a long series.

            I am not encouraged by the way you keep shifting the grounds of your objections and misrepresent what I said.

            We don’t require extraordinary proof, just good proof. Rossi has yet to supply it, which means scepticism is perfectly acceptable.

          • Tim
        • Wes

          “Rossi has yet to supply it, which means scepticism is perfectly acceptable.”

          Good, I am glad you agree with me.

          • daniel maris

            I agree that healthy scepticism is valid, not closed mind scepticism.

          • Wes

            @daniel – If one cannot discern the most blatant manipulation masquerading as fact, then yes, I agree there must be a closed mind.

        • Paul

          If Einstein had kept his secrets to himself and began to hand fabricate precision time pieces in order to capitalize on his discovery, then he would be comparable to Rossi.

          • http://classicalvalues.com TallDave

            Einstein’s discovery was not very productizable.

          • daniel maris

            Tall Dave’s word is not very vocabularisable.

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  • George

    I assume Jed Rothwell knows who the individual is. I wonder if Mr. Rothwell can vouch for him. I trust Mr. Rothwell’s judgement, if he says the guy is the real deal then that would lend quite a bit of validity to the story. However, the bottom line is do they have a workable product?

  • http://none.com Charles Ponzi

    (who for now wishes to remain anonymous)

    (of course, no problem, we would expect nothing else other than delays and punts coming out of the Rossi/Defkalion camp)