Strategies for Rapid E-Cat Proliferation: How Can Rossi Do It?

We looked yesterday what Andrea Rossi’s stated goals are regarding the proliferation of his E-Cat technology. He envisions that eventually a whole industry surrounding his E-Cat invention will be in place, with a manufacturing, distribution, servicing and reprocessing network to allow for the widespread use of his invention in the real world.

This is obviously a vast undertaking, and to be successful will require a great deal of money build the organization he envisions. So how does someone in Rossi’s position get from where he is now, to where he hopes to be?

We know that he wants to control his trade secret, and at least for right now it doesn’t appear that a worldwide patent is on the cards,  and so he is doing all he can to prevent the leaking of proprietary information.  We also know that while he has said in the future he may sell shares to the public, for the moment he is not seeking  outside funding.  Yesterday, in response to a question of when he would be selling stock he responded:

“As I always said, I want not to play foot-ball with the bones of People. My company at the moment is a warship in stormy weather, during a hard battle. To invest in it is premature. So far we just sell industrial plants of 1 MW and our Customers are financing us.”

The ‘football with bones’ saying is a bit unclear — perhaps he means that he doesn’t want people to risk money that could be lost — but the current strategy seems to be that he is counting on sales of the current industrial plants for the funds he needs to build his organization. At around 2 million Euros per plant he could get some much needed revenue if sales are good, but it is going to be enough to do what he hopes to do?

I don’t know if Rossi or any of his associates read this site, but I know that we have many readers here who are hoping for a quick and successful adoption of E-Cat technology in the real world. If you had any to give his team, what might that be?

  • Larry

    Has not Ampenergo been created to license this technology? If you were Ampenergo, which company(s) would you first go to to commercialize this product in the USA? My bets are on GE and Westinghouse. They can also oversee the security aspects. I envision only commercial interests getting ahold of this stuff at first, as it is they who will create the jobs we so sorely need here is the US to revitalize the economy. And by the way, if this is not real, we are screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We can look forward to revolution, blood in the streets, inflation the likes of which just about none of us has ever experienced. And the banks will go bust. So…..better hope its real.

  • http://www.debeer.com John de Beer

    Rossi might do worse than take a leaf out of Google’ playbook – Google’s IPO was run as a Dutch Auction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_auction) and managed in such a way that not only did the employees do extremely well, but “The vast majority of Google’s 271 million shares remained under Google’s control” as well. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Google#Financing_and_initial_public_offering)

  • gillana giancarlo

    Le grandi rivoluzioni, sia quelle scientifiche, che quelle storiche hanno generalmente bisogno di un tempo lungo per affermarsi, salvo che la congiuntura storica non dìa ad esso una forte accelerazione.
    Anche nella costruzione della bomba atomica, molto tempo è trascorso da quando Otto Hann e Strassaman (1938) scoprirono la fissione nucleare e Fermi inventasse la pila a fissione(1942) nucleare, ma la bomba fu sganciata solo nel 1945, ma c’era di mezzo la guerra ed il timore che la Germania la stesse già progettando.. Date tempo ad A.R. per perfezionare il suo dispositivo, per esempio è di ora la notizia per una accordo con la NI (National Instruments), per migliorare la strumentazione di controllo e misurazione.
    Altre problematiche nascono perchè tutto il dispositivo possa generare corrente elettrica o calore per uso domestico.
    Fa bene A. Rossi a concentrasi sul prossimo impianto di 1Mw, piccoli passi… per un grande cambiamento.

    • Anthony

      Or in English………………
      gillana Giancarlo on November 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm The great revolutions, or those scientific ones, than those historical ones they have generally need of a long time in order to assert, except that the historical conjuncture not dìa to it a strong acceleration. Also in the construction of the atomic bomb, much time is passed from when Eight Hann and Strassaman (1938) discovered to the nuclear fission and Fermi 1942) nuclear invented the battery to fission (, but the bomb was uncoupled alone in 1945, but there was of means the war and the fear that the Germany the same ones already planning. Dates time to A.R in order to perfect its device, as an example are now the news for an agreement with the NI (National Instruments), in order to improve the instrumentation of control and measurement. Other problematic ones are born because all the device can generate electric current or heat for domestic use. It does good. Rossi to is concentrated on the next system of 1Mw, little ones passes… for a great change. Reply

  • Sanjeev

    It is clear that Rossi himself cannot do much for mass production and rapid proliferation. It will need a big corporation, that is already set up world wide, for this task.

    Given that he needs to protect the secret, has no patents, has no money and obviously no contracts with big corporations at this time, it looks almost impossible. And that he could sell one box at a time is a very big achievement in itself.

    The fastest solution that I could think of is that the situation can be improved if some ultra rich philanthropist personally meets Rossi and offers him a few billions, unconditionally, to buy up a few factories and employ an army of people to produce Ecats in those factories and distribute them.

    This will keep Rossi happy because it will give him 100% control and 100% profit shares. It sounds like a desperate action, but this will benefit all humanity in a short time.

    A person who understands the meaning of ‘economy of abundance’ will be able to donate the money needed for this, and will be willing to hand over total control to Rossi.

    This control, of course, will not last for long because the competitors will reverse engineer it in no time. However Rossi will earn more than he can dream of before this happens.

    Overunity devices like ECat, if true, will most definitely give rise to an economy of abundance, after which , even if Rossi accumulates trillions, he will have no use of them except to make fodder for cows.

    • jeff

      as much as i want this to be the truth and the real deal i can’t help but to smell a con brewing, i hope i’m wrong

    • Integrator

      nicely put an economy of abundance means all humans will live way more comfortable happier lives, more play time less work time 🙂 we work our whole lives to pay for energy! cheap energy will be evolutionary to our lives! that is if Rossi actually has something real. Personally, it does seem a bit fishy the eccentricities of his ways but I’d love nothing more than to be utterly mistakened! good luck ross old boy! 🙂

  • Az
    • Kim

      Fantastic!

    • Sanjeev

      Thank. Great news.

      And a minor news from the same page :
      [Full Disclosure:
      PES Network has a business relationship with Andrea Rossi.]

      I wonder what kind of relationship, Sterling is mainly a reporter.

  • Mike Cheek

    Thirty 1 MW units over 2 years is tremendous from a scientific viewpoint, and for research. However, for perspective what we would need for an industrial impact is ramping up to say 100 MW. That would produce, if my back of the envelope calcs are right, 250,000 lbs/hr of superheated steam (if the unit could be used for superheat, which I am not sure it is suitable for that at the moment). Or else 100 MW could produce 295,000 lbs/hr saturated steam, and you would have a supplementary fired superheater to boost up to say, 1000 psi and 780 deg F so you could generate electricity. But 100 MW or 250,000 lbs/hr of steam isn’t really a big deal in the power generation world. Nice. But nothing unusual.

    My point is not to criticize, but to point out that if this thing is true, we’re still a few years away from seeing any significant impact. Of course, if enough people know that this thing is on the horizon, and it’s coming, that future anticipation could have a present day impact.

    • Bob Hilton

      Where will the water to produce steam come from?? Ideally, this technology should be blended with a process that runs turbines without using water to produce steam.

      • Peter Hunt

        Bob the water will be recycled as it is in any hot water heating system or steam turbine.

      • jeff

        there was a whole bunch of it in the ocean last time i checkrd

  • Francis

    Dramatic News:
    E-Cat is a scam. Andrea Rossi is a fraudster. It’s all over town. Some guys lost their money.

    • Kim

      What town?

    • daniel maris

      Which guys?

    • K Reilly

      They should check under the couch cushions before they cry fraud.

    • Peter Hunt

      Your sound like you work for an electric utility.

  • Josh

    If Rossi is aiming for proliferation, he needs to do everything exactly the opposite of how he is currently doing it. If it’s real (I’m finding it increasing unlikely), he’s a fantasic inventor – regardless, he’s a terrible businessman.

    • Robert Horning

      How would you do it different? I agree that being paranoid about patents is not really a good way to get this device built, particularly as patents can be invalidated or a small “tweak” to the process can create a whole new patent that will result in years of litigation. Historically speaking, patents really don’t help out an inventor like Rossi, although they can help muddy the waters in a legal sense and are always nice to have around if you have an investor wanting an exclusive license to make something.

      That, however, may be a problem here too. Rossi really shouldn’t have exclusive patents on this process and he should also remember that patents have a limited time frame for validity. His time is limited in terms of how long he can hold onto a patent, presuming he can even get one for this device (that still is questionable, particularly for a patent covering the whole European Union or the United States). That he should file such a patent application regardless is perhaps a good idea… at least to keep the trolls off of his back.

      All of this is dependent on whether this device is legitimate or not. If Rossi is working a confidence game, it really makes no difference at all other than how he can maximize his money before the game is over. That is somewhat of the same rules, but he might be making the right moves for a business like that. If so, this will be a well studied con game in the future.

      • Josh

        If I had the most valuable invention in the world (which this would be) that was not super complex (it doesn’t appear to be), but one that relied on a secret sauce (the catalyst) that would likely be identified through reverse engineering of each of my sales (the first buyers aren’t buying for actual use, they want to understand the technology), I certainly wouldn’t sell my products one at a time. I’d prove my product to one company or venture capital firm and sell a production license. That would get my products to market faster and make me richer faster – a win-win. I still don’t get his angle for fraud, though.

        • Sanjeev

          I agree with you, 1 1MW box at a time is snails pace. Given the potential this product has, and the demand there is, and the ‘dirt cheap’ Opex, it makes sense to churn out thousands of Ecats per day.

          This reasoning should appear obvious to anyone, but IMO, it is a bit surprising that he could sell even one unit.

          I guess Rossi tried to do exactly what you said, engage with a big manufacturer. I’m guessing that no one listened because its ‘too good to be true’ or because Rossi demanded exclusive control over everything from the powder to nuts and bolts. (more probable).

          He could engage DGT of Greece for exactly the same purpose, but it failed, and he had no other option but to build ECats for himself.

          Now, with no cash and no investors, he could only manage to get the vegetable oil genset guys at EON to build some. I’m sorry but its only my guess, I do not know the inside story.

          After knowing this, I won’t call Rossi a poor businessman or an eccentric inventor, but only a man who is caught between many opposing situations and still trying to get his invention in the market, anyhow by any means and as fast as possible.

  • Francis

    Now Rossi sold 31 E-Cats!!

    • Az

      I’m not sure about 31 E-Cats sold, but per Rossi,orders for 2 years already filled out.

      Andrea Rossi
      November 10th, 2011 at 11:11 AM
      Dear Wladimir Guglinski:
      So far we are manufacturing 1 MW plants, and our next 2 years capacity of production has been already saturated. For the small units we need at least 1-2 years for the approvals. Your suggestion, anyway, are good, among the infinite possibilities of employ, those are surely possible too.
      Warm Regards,
      A.R.

    • Sanjeev

      How did you arrive at that number ?

  • Dot

    Is Andrea Rossi the only man who knows the secret of the mystery component? How do you think?

    • Francesco CH

      No, he is not the only one.

      There is nothing to fear: now we are in a so advanced phase that the further proliferation of this technology will be unstoppable

    • Sanjeev

      I’m guessing his wife knows.

  • Brad Arnold

    The best strategy for the rapid widespread proliferation of LENR is exactly what Rossi is doing: proving successful commercialization. All Rossi has to do is churn those 1MW LENR reactors out and sell them to legitimate customers, and eventually the “it is against the laws of physics” and “it is too good to be true” phase will pass, then corporations will pour megabucks into R&D to incorporate LENR into products.

    Why should Rossi do any more public demos? Why should Rossi even maintain a website? Frankly, if Rossi and his team were to vanish off the face of the Earth today, multiple other companies would carry the touch of LENR to successful commercialization, and thereby indirectly launch a cascade of corporate R&D resulting in a (relatively) rapid shift away from any other energy technology.

    Rossi is Prometheus, not Bill Gates.

    • Brad Arnold

      The paradigm shift will occur when a behemoth energy company like Exxon/Mobile’s fossil head board of directors makes the strategic decisions to join the LENR revolution rather than engaging in the futile effort to beat it.

      By the way, Obama could help speed this paradigm shift with a couple of phone calls, but I’ve stopped hoping for that limp biscuit to do anything. At least he isn’t fighting against it either. And those ossified retards at the Department of Energy ought to be kicked out on the streets for their incompetence and willful ignorance – they ought to be leading the charge in helping America switch as fast as possible to LENR.

      • http://none Jack T.

        But Obama did make some calls. To Jay Leno asking him to come up with some good jokes about this fraud.

  • Eugene

    Rossi’s site journal-of… says “This Account Has Been Suspended”.
    Nice, nice.

    • Integrator

      hahahaha some omen. . .

  • scott

    Why is Rossi’s site suspended?

    • Lagwin

      Probably the same way the wiki page was flagged for deletion

    • RH

      Enemies might have convinced the web hoster that the web site is objectionable and needs to be blocked.

      Or maybe Rossi has just forgotten to pay the latest hosting bill. He HAS been a bit busy lately with more important matters, you know.

      • RH

        I have been told this has happened before, so no need to get all paranoid. This is just a web site error that happens to result in a misleading error message.

        • http://blog.teledyn.com mrG

          As mentioned in the RSS article that’s since been cancelled (his site is backup?) shared hosting providers will do this if your site suddenly gets too popular 😉 This happened to me as well, turned out to be data transactions between Drupal and my mysql article data, I was advised by the hosting company to go to a standalone server, and they (Superb.net) actually found me an old used one that I could afford, and I ran with that until self-hosting just got to be too much bother and I switched to cloud-hosted, managed services (that were also free) Someone should tell Rossi about posterous.com 🙂

    • Sanjeev

      According to Rossi, his site was attacked or hacked.

      We don’t know the truth. My best guess is that bandwidth limit exceeded on him and the server auto-suspended the site.

  • ride

    their are far more efficient , safe and clean ways to make energy around the world waiting to come out at the open

    as soon as Rossi E-Cat hits the market , fear will go away , others will follow and you can take this to the bank , so the way that Rossi will push this or the cost of it or what ever is truly irrelevant

    the next revolution will be an energy revolution and the E-Cat will be just the start of it 🙂

  • Peter

    No one likes to loose money… Obviously!!
    What makes interest in Rossi technology on a bussinesman from an economic point of view??
    I think is the fact that in the current system, he will be able to save thousands of dollars on energy cost. That way his company is going to be very competitive.

    So if energy cost dropped a lot from morning to night, there will be no more gain to that company, economically speaking.
    THEN, there will be not so much gain to Andrea Rossi because he wouldn’t be able to sell his products at high prices.

    He is protecting himself and he is not falling into risk, at least for now.

    I’m very curious about when is Rossi going to take risk and sell his products globally, giving that way “power to the people”. Probably never!!!

  • http://blog.teledyn.com mrG

    Do we in fact KNOW that these devices are safe? They do seems safe, in print, from a distance, but let’s say they do work as claimed, what do they do that is UNclaimed? Does not not seem wreckless to anyone else to take an unprecidented technology and deploy it to paying customers who will install it in possibly populated or key food-chain places? And also too perhaps a misunderstood technology (he may have discovered the effect empirically and does not really have a ‘theory’ of how it works, nor do we. yes, it COULD be harmless, but then what precident do we have for an industrial process, moved quickly and secretively from invention to mass industrial production, where there HASN’T been nasty side-effects? Even Hydro-electric turned out to raise river temperatures and threaten fisheries (although we did largely solve that, and post-hoc too I suppose)

    I don’t know, of course, but this latest round of messages is shaking my enthusiasm. Yes, maybe he won’t take investment because the idea is simple and investors could lose everything the moment the secret is leaked and we have Chinese-clone reactors selling at WalMart for $59, but also maybe he’s afraid of the liability, the backlash that might occur once these things ARE deployed and the troubles start spawning lawsuits? It just seems like completely the wrong move for a legit enterprise, although I’m happy to consider any prior art examples. Conversely, patents are cheap and easy to do and give you talking points in court when the offshores show up with knock offs.

    I know we all WANT to believe, but I wonder: SHOULD we? And even if we should, should we rush in so quickly, and so completely blindly?

    • Kim

      These are all good points.

      I’m sure that all safety issues will
      be looked at first. This is the single
      most important thing.

      I would rather see these things perform
      in controlled industrial environment and
      achieve a track record first.

      This would give the precedent and
      give people the confidents needed
      to place the technology in their homes

      Respect
      Kim

      • http://blog.teledyn.com mrG

        yes this is exactly right. We’re not even yet completely certain that we want children living under high-voltage transmission lines or whether you and I really should walk around with cellphones strapped next to our kidneys 😉 There needs to be some public research and statements from the the international safety standards people; you can’t even put an electronic sculpture in a museum here in Canada without a CSA-approved powersupply, and there’s Rossi handing out MEGAWATT reactors like he was selling shoes or bicycles? I don’t know, but it just makes me a little nervous that there’s going to be a fleet of these unproven things churning megawatt fusion reactions out there. Mind you, here in Ontario, even our fission reactors carry no insurance …

  • daniel maris

    Well his approach so far seems quite logical:

    1. Sell to organisations that have a strategic interest in the product and are prepared to pay over the odds e.g. defence forces, defence companies, ethical green companies, energy companies… but keep the catalyst secret as far as possible and prevent reverse engineering as far as possible. These initial buyers are prepared to pay over the odds at $2M per 1MW unit.

    2. Sell may 20-30 of those – building up a fund that allows you to build a production line factory.

    3. Ger well resected universities (Bologna and Upssala) to confirm the safety and efficacy of the devices.

    3. Start producing more E cats at a much cheaper price – say $500K per 1MW. Now, you will be getting interest from a wide range of organisations e.g. industrial firms, public sector housing, and so on.

    4. Maybe selling 500 a year – generating $250M per annum…this funds the next stage.

    5. Move into electricity generation at the macro level and domestic heating units at the micro level.

    6. By now the company may have gone public and investors will be flocking to the company…

  • Roberto

    He should be aware that some day the trade secret will be lost, so that he is pushing to have *now* a market gap.

  • Yong

    To my understanding, based on what many people are talking here, what Rossi is trying to do is to keep e-Cat secret and make it himself. My question is how? In such a world we can talk to each other from all over the world here, it is hard for me to agree that anything can be kept secret.As reported, Rossi has sold some of his plants to some customers. If so, Rossi has to provide a manual at least to instruct the customers how to operate the plant, what kind of fuel, including the secret catalysts, they have to use and perhaps also a sketch of the plant for maintenance. Furthermore, if the customers bought the plant not for use, but for research, they would be able to know all the secret inside the plant unless Rossi believes no people can replicate his plant.
    Any ideas?

  • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

    What I believe will really get this technology going is an e-cat experimenter’s kit. There are a gazillion professional and amateur inventors who would love to wrap product around this technology.

    I understand that there are two very real hurdles that make this plan difficult: the intellectual property issue and safety issues. I think that the safety issues can be addressed by making a clear safety manual, possibly by limiting sales to people with a certain qualification (real engineers, etc.). The intellectual property issue may be easily solved with a good contract — however I am not a patent attorney. If purchasers, however, signed a contract saying that they will not open or reverse-engineer the e-cat core, it may do the trick.

    It won’t be terribly long before the great filter of “science” accepts this technology, then the patent issues will quickly resolve themselves.

  • Adam

    Maybe Rossi wants the ecat.com domain.

    Wednesday, November 9, 2011
    ALERT: Could the owner of ECat.com please contact me – Andrea Rossi is wanting to enter dialogue with the owner of that domain name. Please contact Sterling at your earliest convenience. Ditto if you happen to know who runs that site. Thanks. (November 9, 2011)

    http://peswiki.com/index.php/News:Rossi_Cold_Fusion

    • Lagwin

      hmm, a five minute video on the site in question but no audio

      • Lagwin

        Nevermind…forgot i had my audio switched off :S

  • Kim

    Please let other people in your daily life

    know that a “New Fire” is here.

    No more need for fear,money,control…

    This is a life changing event. Lets not screw it up.

    Respect
    Kim

  • georgehants

    If Mr. Rossi is legit it surly does not matter how he gets it out just so long as he bypasses main-line sciences prejudices and government and power institutions that have delayed Cold Fusion for 23 years.
    Waiting is difficult with his strategy but he has committed to the second 1mw unit over the next 3 months.
    If this man if a fraudster, he has put a time limit that he cannot go far beyond without very good reason, for it all to not come tumbling down.
    So far he has done everything he promised, agreed with an annoying secret customer in October but as Cold Fusion is now accepted as fact, give him a chance to do it his way.

    • Robert Horning

      What has delayed “Cold Fusion for 23 years” isn’t evil governments or big business, but rather that it hasn’t been producing a net energy gain. It is important to know that the scientific community hasn’t come to a consensus that it even works at all in part because of several factors related to both how it was originally presented to the world as well as an apparent difficulty in reproducing the results. There could be a whole bunch of factors involved in terms of why it works for some or another.

      Just to give an example, there was an experiment done to “prove” there was no link between magnetism and electricity in the 18th century. It involved a coil that went around a magnetized needle (like a compass needle) and then a charge was applied to the coil with some Leyden jar batteries. For some reason, some of the experimenters got the needle to move after it was “stable” and others couldn’t. The outside factor they neglected to recognize was of course the magnetic poles of the Earth which also influenced the experiment, but it was used for years as “proof” that magnetism and electricity weren’t linked because of the inconsistent results. It is now known that the experimenters simply had some of the desks oriented north-south and others east-west when they performed the experiment, thus giving different results when tried in different labs. No, I’m not making this up either, it really happened and it was a significant part of the scientific debate about electricity that was finally settled when electric generators finally were built in the early 20th Century.

      I have no idea if anything similar is happening with “cold fusion” or if there may be other factors that even now aren’t really well understood for how the mechanics of “cold fusion” work, but there certainly have been inconsistent results in a manner similar to the “cold fusion” experiments. More importantly, the amount of power that these experiments have been producing, such as the Pons & Fleischmann experiment, clearly weren’t capable of producing power on an industrial scale. If anything, even Rossi hasn’t been able to do that until recently, assuming what he claims is happening is real.

      Don’t go blaming a grand conspiracy to keep this from the public. Sometimes it simply takes time for ideas to be understood and developed, as we really don’t understand how everything in this universe works. There are basic things about this universe that are still waiting to be discovered.

      • Kim

        Very Good, I was just thinking along some
        of those lines myself.

        Its possible that actual physical location
        may play a part in the process of cold fusion
        energy and its intensity ect…

        Respect
        Kim

      • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

        Bullshit! Check out

        This US Government website states:

        Tests conducted at NASA Glenn Research Center in 1989 and elsewhere consistently showed evidence of anomalous heat during gaseous loading and unloading deuterium into bulk palladium. At one time called “cold fusion,” now called “low-energy nuclear reactions” (LENR), such effects are now published in peer-reviewed journals and are gaining attention and mainstream respectability. The instrumentation expertise of NASA GRC is applied to improve the diagnostics for investigating the anomalous heat in LENR.

        LENR has worked for a long time! It may not have produced sufficient for commercialization, but it has produced OVER UNITY for a long time. Inspite of this wikipedia describes LENR as “pathological science” and the U.S. Patent office does a knee-jerk rejection of all cold fusion related patent applications — as they have done with Rossi.

        • http://none Jack T.

          Did Rossi really apply for a US Patent or is that conjecture? Is there a record of this?

          • georgehants

            Science, administration, journals, and academics are 100% guilty of the incompetent delay of Cold Fusion that has cost millions of lives.

          • Robert Horning

            The USPTO has come out as a general policy statement, not so much about the eCat specifically or to any particular patent application by Andrea Rossi, and has categorically stated they will not accept any device related to “cold fusion” for consideration as a patentable device. At the moment, they consider the science to be unsettled as to if it even works at all as claimed on anything in that field, and it is in the same category of devices as perpetual motion machines… something also that the USPTO will not even consider for patenting.

            That does make it an uphill battle for somebody like Rossi to make the application. There is an appeals process that can happen when applying for a patent, but it would require a working device rather than just a technical drawing and it gets far more complicated in order to make a submission.

        • Robert Horning

          What is “Bullshit” here? That experimental research happened at other universities to reproduce the Pons & Fleischmann experiment did produce very mixed results, but what variables might be important or not are even now still not understood. It might not be the physical location, orientation, or something similar, but it could be container shape, purity (or lack thereof) of the materials being used, other trace elements in certain quantities, or other still unknown factors that may have contributed to the failed experiments. If I or others knew what additional parameters needed to be considered in these experiments and if they could be consistently reproduced, it wouldn’t be nearly so big of a deal.

          That was my point, that the experimentation hasn’t provided consistent results. This is precisely why it is discredited in “mainstream science” circles as many of these other laboratories couldn’t get it to work at all. The USPTO is rejecting cold fusion related patents precisely because the science has been inconsistent and there isn’t scientific consensus that it is even producing nuclear reactions at all much less producing “over unity” fusion.

          I’ll note that I’ve seen first hand some of the experiments and even touched with my own hand some apparatus which seems to have worked. I also know on a personal level some of the researchers who were involved with some of the earliest experiments in this area, so I have my own reasons to accept the validity of the concept itself, but I also have seen legitimate skepticism from experiments that were complete duds and couldn’t produce anything measurable in terms of nuclear reactions or “anomalous heat” being produced that couldn’t be explained by simple chemical reactions. It is these other experiments that also can’t be discounted and need to be explained, and these were by bona fide researchers who didn’t have a reason to be detractors as well.

          The critics have legitimate reasons to be critical of these experiments into LENR, “cold fusion” or whatever the current name for the reaction might be. The theories for how this takes place certainly are not very well developed, and has even been admitted to by Andrea Rossi and Sergio Focardi in the case of the eCat. If producing these devices isn’t consistent, there certainly may be other factors in how they are used and produced that need to be discovered.

          • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

            I don’t think there is any question that the palladium/deuterium reaction has not been stabilized. I have read reports that one slice of palladium will produce a reaction, but the next slice from the same block will be a dud. This is mystery, a lot of unanswered questions. But isn’t this kind of mystery the best fodder for scientific research?

  • Mike Cheek

    There is a different skill set between inventing / entrepeneuring and the running of a large enterprise, which this would become *if* indeed the assertions about this device are true. In my judgment Mr. Rossi would be better served to only worry about that part that is unique, thus manufacture just that one key reactor component and sell that to companies such as Babcock & Wilcox, General Electric, and let them wrap everything else around. Everything else – pumps, instrumentation, hydrogen storage and piping, water supply, steam handling, generators, permits, marketing, etc. I assure you these guys know what to do if you give them a black box that generates lots of steam.

    Even the manufacture of the reactors could be outsourced, perhaps with only final assembly under his own roof and supervision. It is possible even for proprietary systems to be manufactured by third parties, with sufficient controls in place.

    Certainly at the least Mr. Rossi should just produce only the parts that are unique. There are many firms that could quickly make practical such a system. It would seem for starters to be well suited to complement steam and power production in utility boilers. Again, *if* these assertions are really true. If true, surely this will become evident in a few months.

    • Robert Horning

      I am glad that you show continued skepticism here, as I think it is important this concept is confirmed in some reputable laboratory and that the idea is explored further.

      This said, operating on the presumption that this device is everything that Andrea Rossi claims that it is, the process of taking it from being an invention to a large company is incredibly tough. I have seen a great many excellent ideas fail to make it in the marketplace simply because they were either under capitalized (definitely a problem here), or those involved want so much control that they miss the whole point of the company. There are also some people who simply aren’t capable of growing a company past a certain size, either because they lack the experience or because their personalities simply don’t mesh with enough people who are effective for a company that large.

      The key here is to know your limits when you are engaged in a business opportunity, and knowing when to seek outside help.

      I know I would be hugely disappointed if it would take another 20-30 years to get this device to market simply because of a bad business plan. Even if this device is everything that it is claimed to be, it is very possible that the business side of things can go under to the point it won’t be touched in the future.

      Nikola Tesla had that happen, where it took a great many years for some of his ideas to be developed, and some of them still haven’t been. An assurance that the invention is “out there” isn’t sufficient to get this device built and it shouldn’t be assumed you will have one of these devices in your home even if the technology is real and even if the government is so inept that they aren’t going to notice it being built and distributed in large numbers.

      • Mike Cheek

        Robert. Yes. Undercapitalization and over control could be serious problems. Perhaps because Mr. Rossi has apparently been burned badly in the past he is wanting to keep tight control on things. Understandable since he is swimming with the sharks. Nevertheless, this is too big of a thing for one man or for a small team to pull off. Example: dealing with safety and environmental issues. Hydrogen storage and handling is tricky business. Hydrogen leaks through ordinary welds. And as for environmental. You might think the Greens would be all for this. But mention gamma radiation and low energy NUCLEAR reaction, and who knows what will happen. I believe there was even opposition to building electric power lines to convey power from a Wind Farm to market. Good grief! It will take careful diplomacy, PR, marketing, etc. This can be done, but this quickly becomes a job for an entire team.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      You are sooo correct!

      There is a huge difference between inventing and entrepreneuring. Rossi is obviously a master inventor. How good he is at bringing a technology to market has yet to be seen. He’s made a pretty good start though.

  • fumanchu

    I am neither a believer nor disbeliever at this point, but am enjoying the show none the less.

    I think it would be an interesting approach to open source the reactor design, and instead go after patents on new ways to produce fine nickel powder/fuel production and reprocessing techniques. If e-cat is for real, there will be plenty of money on that side of the equation. Maybe the secret sauce/catalyst mix would be patentable.

    If the technology works, it is only a short matter of time before a customer opens up the black box and the secret will be leaked.

    Putting on my skeptic hat, I would have loved to seen the whole shipping container suspended by a crane with only a steam tube hanging down kicking out hundreds of kilowatts of heat for several days. I’m willing to how it all plays out and hope it goes better than Steorn.

    • Mike Cheek

      Yes, I’m enjoying the show as well. Hoping for the best, because clean low cost energy would be a tremendous economic boom, to say the least. So I’m going to follow this show a while longer until something else shows up. I remain intrigued.

      • http://none Jack T.

        I’m not enjoying the show. I have two ranches where I’m finished building and in the process of building. Power is a serious issue. On both ranches I have gotten screwed by the power companies. Connecting to power means either paying bribes or putting up with shenannigans. The insolence and hubris of the power companies knows no bounds. Along comes this clown who is obviously playing a game of “made you look”. He learned from the mistakes of “Pons and Fleischmann” and set this game up in such a way that there is no way to prove or disprove his contention. I don’t like being jerked around and I’m not having a good time.

        • Mike Cheek

          Sorry to hear that. I’m guessing your ranches are remotely located? If so, even with a fair minded supplier it could be expensive for them to run a dedicated power line a long distance to a remote destination. And if they’re taking advantage of you then of course you get stuck even more. Unless you go off the grid your only recourse may be to appeal to either the ombudsman or possibly congressmen. But I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. Regards.

          • http://none Jack T.

            Not really. An hour drive from downtown Los Angeles – 25 million people. I would have had power a few months ago but one of my neighbors threatened the Edison crew with death. Not everybody likes utilities out in my parts. The US West is still pretty wild. My point is power is nothing to joke about. The only thing that I give this Rossi character brains and credit for is he has come up with an ingenious way of avoiding having to put up or shut up. That will only get you so far and as the article says, don’t try this on the ranch:)

        • George

          I concur completely, let’s quite the bs and have a real demo of the product with a known customer. If he does that I will raise all $$ Rossi needs to in a relative short manor of time be able to supply the world with cheap (almost free)clean energy.

        • Andy K

          Jack,

          I have been following this saga since March and have been a believer in Rossi from the beginning. He is NO CLOWN. There is certainly lot more work that needs to be done to understand the basic physics and a lot of engineering will be involved to make a controllable safe product.

          In my opinion, Rossi is a gentleman scientist who is a fairly wealthy person and still enjoys doing technical work. Give him time, let him do it his way, he has earned it.

          On the CLOWN thing — I remember reading Watson’s book “Double Helix”. He recounts a letter from a visiting professor to the lab director asking how his CLOWNS(referring to Watson & Crick) were doing among other things. The visitor had earlier seen that Watson and Crick did not have a good enough handle on the chemistry of the DNA and obviously thought of them as amateur clowns meddling with big questions. Watson recalls with some relish that when the letter arrived, they had already solved the mystery of life a short while ago.

          One day, it will be interesting to find out what Rossi’s insight was, when more qualified physicists have so far failed to make LENR useful.

          -Andy K

          • Josh

            “I have been following this saga since March and have been a believer in Rossi from the beginning.”

            -Why? If I told you I built an e-cat, would you believe me “from the beginning”? Why is a little skepticism a bad thing? Has your vision been clouded?

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Check out http://nickelpower.org/2011/11/07/if-replication-is-the-holy-grail/ It has made a case good enough to shut up Craig Binns and Maryyugo.

  • WaltC

    Rossi might need a good “startup angel” that he trusts and thinks he can work with. He’s not so much looking for investment funding, but for advice from someone who’s gone through the rapid growth phase and emerged to still owning a majority stake in a dominant business. There are some experienced entrepreneurs who currently have interest in green energy and energy breakthroughs– e.g., Bill Gates, the “Google Guys”, some of the early funders of Nanosolar… I’ve been hoping that one of them will hook up with Rossi, or vice versa.

  • Hurley

    I am a believer and have been following this since Jan. In the world where a billion dollars isn’t what it use to be, there are companies like GE and Siemens, to name a few, that could take this technology to the street very quickly. Maybe it is a good strategy to keep a low profile until there are a few dozen of the 1 MW plants operating, while nobody believes it, so It can not be bought up by the giants and crushed.

  • arian
  • Martin6078

    My opinnion is:
    Rossi want to be financial independed from anybody.So he would not been depended of a credit of a bank or other third persons. He is obviorsly anxious not to be blackmailing to somebody especially in finance matters.If he would be a frauder, he would accept each money support of course.
    To sell the proven 1MW plants he can build up the manufacting facilities and infrastucture for private E-Cat distributions over the whole world.
    I´m convinced, that was Rossi is planned is the best way to win.- For us all!
    Warm regards, would be Andrea say…

    • Anthony

      Yes, it would be good to know if or when domestic plants may become available – if it were within about 5 years I can see that I’d be better off not going for those photo-voltaic panels,,,

      Assuming of course that it’s all for real, which seems increasingly likely; there’s a lot less scepticism to these postings than there was even a few weeks ago !

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