Today, the day of Rossi’s E-Cat testing at the University of Bologna, reminds me of an election day. There’s a lot of anticipation for the day, but while the evant is going on, you don’t hear much — you don’t get the full picture of what is going on until it is all over. I have decided to create this post as kind of a blank page where people can post comments, report snippets of news that they hear as the day goes on.
Here are some links where information about the test might be found.
http://22passi.blogspot.com/ This is Daniele Passerini’s blog. Passerini is present at the test and and apparently will be posting throughout the day.
http://twitter.com/#!/22passi This is Passerini’s Twitter account
PESWiki’s Real Time Updates from the October 6, 2011 E-Cat Test
vortex-l An e-mail discussion archive where people have been paying attention to the E-Cat. One of the posters, Jed Rothwell, is in contact with some of the people involved in the testing.
Focus magazine’s forum for the test Raymond Zreik, of the Italian science magazine Focus is also at the test and has created this forum about it.
So if you hear anything from these, or any other sources, that you feel like sharing, please feel free to post in the comments section below!
Loading ...
size lanet olsun
Sudden clarity. The early E-Cats were copper tubes containing reaction mixture. Heat from a resistance wire wound around them is supplied by a variable 60 cycle power source. Heat to begin the reaction and then power down to maintain the alternating magnetic field within. The Brillouin web site confirms use of pulsed magnetic fields having catalytic effects. The iron powder contained in the Rossi reaction mix as a finely divided ferromagnetic agent capable of energizing the nickel in preparation for pseudo neutron absorption. How clever of the LENR advocates to adjust temperature, pressure, pulse generation and reaction quantity resulting in opening a new era of opportunity and profit. Then the world of 20th century Physics is turned upside down with undeniable concepts from not only Guglinski, Santilli, Fleishman/Pons and Rossi but many more who suffered through the experiences of being on the outside of “conventions”. A remarkable and dramatic revolution has begun. I still struggle with attempts to clarify a theoretical, mathematical and geometric representation of ether space, two electrons, a proton, a nucleus, all known forces and the transformations which yield what we call Cold Fusion. Lou Tengzelius
Please tell me that someone looked at the temperature of the water going in to the catalyzer. That is a source of energy too. And did anyone check the plumbing of the heat exchanger? It looks to me like the water was not flowing through the heat exchanger at all — the output water that was five degrees warmer was actually just coming straight out of the catalyzer and the input water was being piped down the drain. Why wasn’t the water supplying the catalyzer in a closed loop? Before this test I was a 65% believer. Now I am a 5% believer — I hold out a sliver of hope that there were people there both honest and competent enough to verify that these obvious things were not issues.
The NyTeknik article
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece
which contains a link to a “detailed report”
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284962.ece/BINARY/Test+of+E-cat+October+6+%28pdf%29
and a link to “temperature data>
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284968.ece/BINARY/Temp+data+Ecat_6_10_11+%28xls%29
[Apologies if the hyperlinks or formatting don't work; I'm new in town.]
It simply works.
Now strong and “obscure” interest groups will try everything to suppress or ban the Rossi’s technology as “potentially dangerous”, I presume. Even attack ad personam or some kind of force majure accident is not excluded.
But Rossi is shielded, and he will prevail. I know that.
Message from Rossi on his site:
Andrea Rossi
October 7th, 2011 at 3:49 AM
DEAR ALL:
I THANK ALL OUR READERS FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT I RECEIVED: SHOULD I BE ABLE TO TURN YOUR PASSION INTO ENERGY, WE COULD FUEL ALL THE HIGH SPEED TRAINS OF EUROPE WITH IT.
THE TEST IS GONE. WE FINISHED AROUND MIDNIGHT YESTERDAY, THIS MORNING AT SIX WE HAD TO RESTART THE WORK ON THE 1 MW PLANT.
WE WILL NOT PUBLISH A REPORT, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT TIME TO DO IT, BUT YOU WILL FIND REPORTS IN MANY OTHER BLOGS AND IN THE SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINES WHICH ATTENDED THE TEST: NYTEKNIK AND FOCUS.
WARM REGARDS TO ALL.
ANDREA ROSSI
Congratulation Mr. Andrea Rossi. Obvirorsly the test was a big success.I´m anticipate detailed test results and datasheets of course.
But I´ m wondering why an old prototye was used and not one new “fat cat” of the 27KW size?
I am really enjoying the skeptics who feel they know more about this thing by reading or watching a video than the actual people who are there, on the ground looking at it.
It must be that the moment a person gets an invitation to a demonstration they lose 50 IQ points and all of the scientific knowledge they have learned. Maybe the ECAT hypnotizes them into believing that a rock is making all of that steam.
lol…..even if the thing does work and does change the world they will still gripe and say it isn’t really “fusion” Some people won’t let go of their pre-conceived notions but if it makes them feel better they should remember that Newton did get gravity completely right, Einstein didn’t predict dark energy and just maybe neutrinos travel faster than light.
Lesson, when you are that sure you are right always consider the possibility that just maybe there is something you missed.
Here, here, sir.
It boggles the mind that some think we’ve reached the end of new scientific discoveries.
I believe in 1895 the head of the British Royal Society, then the leading scientific body in the world, said that heavier than air flight was impossible. Eight years later Orville and Wilbur Wright said it wasn’t.
Fingers crossed that Rossi and Focardi have found the new fire.
It says on another blog
“Daniele Passerini has posted information about a previous test of the E-Cat performed on July 7, 2011, which has been kept quiet until now. The test showed operation of the device in self sustain mode. The test had to be cut short, due to a power outage. Lets hope that there is not a power outage during today’s test.
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/10/test-e-cat-7-luglio-2011.html
I want this to be true but I am wondering why the power outage stopped the previous test.? I thought it ran without electricity?
just my own thoughts:
it is necessary to cool down the E-Cat with water, or it will overheat.
To transport water, they used a electric water pump.
One way to shut down the E-Cat should be to disconnect hydrogen supply from core and vent it.
Or just drop the pressure and the reaction will stop.
It must be done otherwise the reaction overheats the device.
Jeff I challenge you to build a device that heats water in a closed loop and exchanges that heat through a heat-exchanger to water running at the same rate as the test. You only get 3L of gasoline to fuel it and it must heat the cooling water by 5C. It must run for at least an hour on the 3L of gasoline. I bet you can’t do it.
Of course I can’t do it myself, that’s not the point. It was suggested that this test would be, once and for all, the test where earlier measurement errors were rectified and the e-cat would be conclusively shown to be facilitating some kind of nuclear reaction. The test as run simply hasn’t accomplished that. A test of a 27kW e-cat running for 24 hours would have done that (assuming the black box isn’t huge). Running a 3.5 kW e-cat for 4 hours does not.
I’m giving you 8 times the chemical energy needed to heat the water you only need a total efficiency of 12.5%. Come on it should be easy.
Now you understand the difficulty in faking it. You can’t fathom how to do it with an unlimited sized device to do it that doesn’t have to be hidden. Let alone how to build it small enough to be hidden in the E-Cat. Four hours was plenty of time to demonstrate there are no tricks involved. If it is trickery then I just as interested in how it is done because it it still one great heat source he has “hidden” in his device.
The quality of the “hidden heat source” is what’s at issue here. When doing a black box test, as Rossi is insisting on (understandably), the only thing that can really be ascertained are the quality of the hidden heat source. The problem with this test, is that Rossi just hasn’t proven that his heat source is any more energy dense than oil.
And I really don’t get what you’re trying to prove by demonstrating that I can’t construct a fake device. I am also incapable of constructing a device to catalyze a cold fusion reaction. Or a car or a homemade rocket or a fire for that matter.
The real question here is what is easier to construct in an absolute sense a cold fusion reactor or a hidden chemical reaction that can heat up water evenly with 50% efficiency.
If Rossi had run his reactor for 24 hours rather than 4 hours the comparison would have been between a cold fusion reactor and a chemical reaction operating at 300% efficiency.
But he didn’t.
I was trying to get you to understand just how much energy really is being created in the test. The reaction in the E-Cat used is likely in the 27KW range. It is very inefficient to heat water to stream the heat more water through a heat-exchanger so getting 3.5KW out means a whole lot more energy was needed at the other end. I think you would need something like 12L of gasoline as fuel to maintain 3.5KW for 4 hours. Do you see room for 12L of fuel plus the mechanism to burn it?
Paul, you really don’t know anything about thermodynamics or thermodynamic efficiency, do you.
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you I closed my browser without saving the page. I admit I am not an expert at thermodynamics and I am taking some wild ass guesses for my numbers, but until you or Jeff explain to me how to convert the chemical energy from 1.5L of fuel in a 1L space without outside oxidizer and no exhaust point with 100% conversion of chemical energy to thermal energy through a complex system then my wags are more believable than your ‘Magical fuel burner’ that must be inside the E-Cat if you are correct that it is fueled by petroleum. Please bring out a demo of your magical burner that does not need oxygen, an exhaust point and manages to fold space to hold the fuel and the device in a space smaller than the materials required to build it and fuel it normally take up in the non-magical world we leave in, the world could really use it.
“Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks. ”
I think that when a scientist present at the facility say ” it’s a day to frame on the wall” or ” everyone was stressed but now everyone has a big smile” pretty mutch resumes the general feeling of the 30 scientists present. Also note that they all decided to end the test earlyer as they where satisfied of the results who ruled out any possible chemical reaction.
This thing is real, the world is about to change weather you beleve it now or not ^^
Bigzer -
I’m an enthusiast. I’ve been following the story since January. I am as convinced as a non-scientist who has no access to observe the equipment could be that something genuine is happening.
But it wouldn’t be that difficult for Rossi to post on his journal or elsewhere some guidance on what’s going on, rather than give occasional, somewhat Sphinx-like answers.
I hope the world is about to change. Might change the weather as well.
We’ll see what emerges over the next few days.
Shame we are getting such confused and vague reports.
Firstly someone says it was the old E cat being tested. I thought it was a module from the 1MW plant that was being tested.
Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks.
Thirdly it would be nice to have some guidance on what to expect. How much energy is put in at the beginning?; how much “fuel” is used? and how much does it cost?; how long could the reaction be expected to continue if it wasn’t shut down?
Oh well, guess we have to wait. Is Ny Teknik the place to look then for results?
Yes, and rest assured that as soon as NyTeknik gets it up this site will have a link, or a post.
Show’s over for now. For some “e-cat comedy” click http://www.ecat.com.
It’s an experiment, it’s not build to work in optimal conditions. Remember the demonstrated ecat is the OLD ecat, not the new version.
Why did he chose the old one? Probably because it’s easyer to open and dissasemble.
Where do you get your information that this is an OLD e-cat?
We have seen (or have been reported) of 3.5 KW of power (lower limit) having been generated for the duration of 4 hours in self sustain mode. I am not a chemist but from spot I cannot think of an exothermic chemical reaction producing 14KWh in 4 hours without leading to any exhaustion? Or is it possible to hide exhaustion of the expected amount inside of a closed room with 30 people in it who dont even smell anything strange there? Hm.
The reaction of hydrogen and water produces only H2O which happens to be the output of e-cat.
Even if the E-Cat can create real Cold Fusion, and generate excess heat, the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market.
The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.
Augusto
How exactly does todays experiment show ” the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market” and “The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.” We don’t even know the details of the experiment. Have you ever heard the saying “don’t get the cart before the horse.” I think it applies here. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m not saying you’re right but as for me I’m reserving judgment until I know more – a lot more!
Mr. Passerini writes in his blog:
@ All I see someone who continues to judge that is thought to be rather than what it is. Meanwhile, Bologna and Uppsala go forward, confident and even more convinced today than yesterday.
The E-Cat warms, but the party is just beginning. It’s a metaphor, of course, here it’s over an hour and a half in advance and we’re all leaving. I put my bike in between myself and a maximum of 3 hours I’ll be home. Good evening to all.
Over the next few days (but already starting tomorrow) will be released so much material produced here today that all the skeptics of the world are likely to go seriously overdose!
stop being so pessimistic. Every1 that have actually been there and have reported on it are very very optimistic. Tomorrow nytekniks article will come out and we will see all the numbers. because we dont know how long it actually was running.
I know that is works because http://yfrog.com/user/22passi/profile says it works. And if anything would have gone wrong we would have heard about it.
Plus there were 30 experts in the room I think they know what they were doing.
So the device ran for 4 hours on self sustain mode. We still don’t know how long it ran assisted, and the amount of energy produced during that time period. It may be enough to disclude, or help disclude, chemical sources. But even I’m disappointed at the length of today’s test.
I smell fishiness, too. Is the Salmon done?
So, the reasoning for 4 hours is to give it time to cool? Hum?. Why couldn’t he run it through the night and cool it down to open it the next day? The spectators could take shifts watching, if they are too old to pull an all nighter. That would at least reduce the suspicion that the black box “core” contains something of the nature of a catalyst to produce exothermic oxidation or crystallization. My tiny had warmers put out some nice heat for a good 4 hours (and weigh about the same before and after use).
What I can’t figure out, is why someone would spend his life saving on an elaborate hoax. That doesn’t make sense, either.
I think it is time for every1 who didn’t believe in Rossi to eat there hat =). Today is the hat eating day. hurray hurray.
4 hours of selfsustaining =) =) =). You can not find a happier man.
Tomorrow this news will be everywhere.
I think he wanted to show them 4 hours of self sustain mode.
For self sustain mode lower energy seems to be better due to stability. So he made that the last 4 hours for the ecat to not be too hot so it can cool down faster. (for disassembling) We know from other tests that the e-cats can do better like 10 Kw and up. So he made that the first hours from the start on. Because of higher energy the e-cat is not so stable so he used the heater for stability.
Together I hope we will see tomorrow a nice energy balance.
DH, you’re funny, you have no data, almost no information and you’re hopping to drastic conclusions heh.
My thoughts exactly!
Have they checked the incoming water? Maybe there could be some chemicals carrying chemical energy released by reacting with something inside the reactor?
Maybe theres aliens hiding in the ceiling shooting invisible laser energy beams into the e-cat! yeah thats it.
I’m saying that if they see only thermometer and flow meter on a closed pipe, there remain possibility of something added to that huge amount of water (over cubic meter) … like hydrogen, but probably there are also more sophisticated chemicals, which could react with something inside the reactor …
Before verifying your alien theory, maybe you should try ruling out simpler ones?
The first recipient of a 1mw plant is going to be a bit disappointed with the 0.1mw they actually get. I’m going to need 10 of these to heat my house. Better start extending my boiler house.
What about the first’s Wright flight?…. was a disappointment too… but anyway we’ve got only to wait with crossed fingers.
Latest post on Daniele’s blog : I see someone who continues to judge that is thought to be rather than what it is. Meanwhile, Bologna and Uppsala go forward, confident and even more convinced today than yesterday.
The E-Cat warms, but the party is just beginning. It’s a metaphor, of course, here it’s over an hour and a half in advance and we’re all leaving. I put my bike in between myself and a maximum of 3 hours I’ll be home. Good evening to all.
Over the next few days (but already starting tomorrow) will be released so much material produced here today that all the skeptics of the world are likely to go seriously overdose!
From Passerini
His last comment on twitter seems very positive…. Even he writes that “this is a day to put into a frame”….
Keep in mind they all started the day at 7AM (some of the attendent are pretty old)… it’s late now, the test is likely conclusive with the numbers and was designed to be long enough to rule out cheats. We’ll see those numbers tomorrow
.
Symple math:
how big is the black box, how mutch energy was produced, can the volume of the black box generate this energy with a chemical reaction without electricity? Yes No, tomorrow we’ll know ^^
Yeah, because it is impossible that there might have been a reactant outside of the magic box which has been used up during the 4 hours? Did they inspect the cat before test start?
Guys; please quit jumping to conclusions. sheesh, the thing hasn’t even cooled off and speculation flying everywhere!
I agree very much!
Passerini is going home and says….. ” I ‘m going home! Beautiful day, to remember. Thanks to you all and to the next… ”
So let’s wait for tomorrow…
The amount of energy produced by this device and the duration of the test is VERY DISAPPOINTING to say the least. The eCat is a device which is supposed to run continuously for 6 months without the need for refuelling yet they only ran the test for 4 hours?!.
The only possibility is that they have already reached the desired results and want enough time to examine the interior of the device. If not it didn’t make sense stopping it only after 4 hours. Some comments on 22 passi d’amore blog explained that the result (acording to partial information we have) is good or very good, but I can’t translate and even understand those comments…. so i’ll wait the definitive report before speak. For example a lot depends on the amount of input energy…. that we still do’t know! I have waited many monts… so i can also wait few more hours to listen the expert that know all dates of the experiment!
They turned it off! It didn’t run out of gas.
From Passerini
There are other controls right now..
According to Raymond Zreick, they could see the internal of the E-CAT, he was dissapointed because there is nothing hi-tech inside. They can’t take picture of the opened E-CAT. He mentionned that they could not see inside de “core” but he said nothing about the size of that “black box”. Daniele Passerini has twetted that they are currently verifying the calibration of the thermocouples by cooling them down with ice. No information about the delta of the weight.
Did they weigh the eCat before and after the tests? Hidden fuel has not been ruled out as far as I can see.
Yes they did, both before and after
Perhaps, they decided to run this test with a single one of the smaller type cores from earlier tests. Or, they just decided to dial down the power from maximum due to the fact that guests were present. In either of those cases, the test might have conclusively passed.
From Passerini
He writes that people’s face were nervous this morning but then turned very relaxed…. this seems a confirmation og good rusults….. I’m not an expert, waiting for all definitive results!