October 6th, 2011: Rossi’s E-Cat Test Comment Thread

Today, the day of Rossi’s E-Cat testing at the University of Bologna, reminds me of an election day. There’s a lot of anticipation for the day, but while the evant is going on, you don’t hear much — you don’t get the full picture of what is going on until it is all over. I have decided to create this post as kind of a blank page where people can post comments, report snippets of news that they hear as the day goes on.

Here are some links where information about the test might be found.

http://22passi.blogspot.com/ This is Daniele Passerini’s blog. Passerini is present at the test and and apparently will be posting throughout the day.

http://twitter.com/#!/22passi This is Passerini’s Twitter account

PESWiki’s Real Time Updates from the October 6, 2011 E-Cat Test

vortex-l An e-mail discussion archive where people have been paying attention to the E-Cat. One of the posters, Jed Rothwell, is in contact with some of the people involved in the testing.

Focus magazine’s forum for the test Raymond Zreik, of the Italian science magazine Focus is also at the test and has created this forum about it.

So if you hear anything from these, or any other sources, that you feel like sharing, please feel free to post in the comments section below!

Frank Acland

  • http://www.indirmp3.org indirmp3

    size lanet olsun

  • Lou Tengzelius

    Sudden clarity. The early E-Cats were copper tubes containing reaction mixture. Heat from a resistance wire wound around them is supplied by a variable 60 cycle power source. Heat to begin the reaction and then power down to maintain the alternating magnetic field within. The Brillouin web site confirms use of pulsed magnetic fields having catalytic effects. The iron powder contained in the Rossi reaction mix as a finely divided ferromagnetic agent capable of energizing the nickel in preparation for pseudo neutron absorption. How clever of the LENR advocates to adjust temperature, pressure, pulse generation and reaction quantity resulting in opening a new era of opportunity and profit. Then the world of 20th century Physics is turned upside down with undeniable concepts from not only Guglinski, Santilli, Fleishman/Pons and Rossi but many more who suffered through the experiences of being on the outside of “conventions”. A remarkable and dramatic revolution has begun. I still struggle with attempts to clarify a theoretical, mathematical and geometric representation of ether space, two electrons, a proton, a nucleus, all known forces and the transformations which yield what we call Cold Fusion. Lou Tengzelius

  • http://www.a-fi.com Automation for Instrumentation

    Please tell me that someone looked at the temperature of the water going in to the catalyzer. That is a source of energy too. And did anyone check the plumbing of the heat exchanger? It looks to me like the water was not flowing through the heat exchanger at all — the output water that was five degrees warmer was actually just coming straight out of the catalyzer and the input water was being piped down the drain. Why wasn’t the water supplying the catalyzer in a closed loop? Before this test I was a 65% believer. Now I am a 5% believer — I hold out a sliver of hope that there were people there both honest and competent enough to verify that these obvious things were not issues.

  • whatever

    The NyTeknik article

    http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3284823.ece

    which contains a link to a “detailed report”

    http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284962.ece/BINARY/Test+of+E-cat+October+6+%28pdf%29

    and a link to “temperature data>

    http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3284968.ece/BINARY/Temp+data+Ecat_6_10_11+%28xls%29

    [Apologies if the hyperlinks or formatting don’t work; I’m new in town.]

  • JJP

    It simply works.
    Now strong and “obscure” interest groups will try everything to suppress or ban the Rossi’s technology as “potentially dangerous”, I presume. Even attack ad personam or some kind of force majure accident is not excluded.

    But Rossi is shielded, and he will prevail. I know that.

  • John Salinger

    Message from Rossi on his site:

    Andrea Rossi
    October 7th, 2011 at 3:49 AM
    DEAR ALL:
    I THANK ALL OUR READERS FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT I RECEIVED: SHOULD I BE ABLE TO TURN YOUR PASSION INTO ENERGY, WE COULD FUEL ALL THE HIGH SPEED TRAINS OF EUROPE WITH IT.
    THE TEST IS GONE. WE FINISHED AROUND MIDNIGHT YESTERDAY, THIS MORNING AT SIX WE HAD TO RESTART THE WORK ON THE 1 MW PLANT.
    WE WILL NOT PUBLISH A REPORT, BECAUSE I HAVE NOT TIME TO DO IT, BUT YOU WILL FIND REPORTS IN MANY OTHER BLOGS AND IN THE SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINES WHICH ATTENDED THE TEST: NYTEKNIK AND FOCUS.
    WARM REGARDS TO ALL.
    ANDREA ROSSI

  • Martin6078

    Congratulation Mr. Andrea Rossi. Obvirorsly the test was a big success.I´m anticipate detailed test results and datasheets of course.
    But I´ m wondering why an old prototye was used and not one new “fat cat” of the 27KW size?

  • david

    I am really enjoying the skeptics who feel they know more about this thing by reading or watching a video than the actual people who are there, on the ground looking at it.

    It must be that the moment a person gets an invitation to a demonstration they lose 50 IQ points and all of the scientific knowledge they have learned. Maybe the ECAT hypnotizes them into believing that a rock is making all of that steam.

    lol…..even if the thing does work and does change the world they will still gripe and say it isn’t really “fusion” Some people won’t let go of their pre-conceived notions but if it makes them feel better they should remember that Newton did get gravity completely right, Einstein didn’t predict dark energy and just maybe neutrinos travel faster than light.
    Lesson, when you are that sure you are right always consider the possibility that just maybe there is something you missed.

    • Stephen

      Here, here, sir.

      It boggles the mind that some think we’ve reached the end of new scientific discoveries.

      I believe in 1895 the head of the British Royal Society, then the leading scientific body in the world, said that heavier than air flight was impossible. Eight years later Orville and Wilbur Wright said it wasn’t.

      Fingers crossed that Rossi and Focardi have found the new fire.

  • http://theXpress.ca priscilla

    It says on another blog

    “Daniele Passerini has posted information about a previous test of the E-Cat performed on July 7, 2011, which has been kept quiet until now. The test showed operation of the device in self sustain mode. The test had to be cut short, due to a power outage. Lets hope that there is not a power outage during today’s test.

    http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/10/test-e-cat-7-luglio-2011.html

    I want this to be true but I am wondering why the power outage stopped the previous test.? I thought it ran without electricity?

    • http://- Otto

      just my own thoughts:

      it is necessary to cool down the E-Cat with water, or it will overheat.
      To transport water, they used a electric water pump.

      One way to shut down the E-Cat should be to disconnect hydrogen supply from core and vent it.

      • Andras

        Or just drop the pressure and the reaction will stop.
        It must be done otherwise the reaction overheats the device.

  • Paul

    Jeff I challenge you to build a device that heats water in a closed loop and exchanges that heat through a heat-exchanger to water running at the same rate as the test. You only get 3L of gasoline to fuel it and it must heat the cooling water by 5C. It must run for at least an hour on the 3L of gasoline. I bet you can’t do it.

    • Jeff

      Of course I can’t do it myself, that’s not the point. It was suggested that this test would be, once and for all, the test where earlier measurement errors were rectified and the e-cat would be conclusively shown to be facilitating some kind of nuclear reaction. The test as run simply hasn’t accomplished that. A test of a 27kW e-cat running for 24 hours would have done that (assuming the black box isn’t huge). Running a 3.5 kW e-cat for 4 hours does not.

      • Paul

        I’m giving you 8 times the chemical energy needed to heat the water you only need a total efficiency of 12.5%. Come on it should be easy.

      • Paul

        Now you understand the difficulty in faking it. You can’t fathom how to do it with an unlimited sized device to do it that doesn’t have to be hidden. Let alone how to build it small enough to be hidden in the E-Cat. Four hours was plenty of time to demonstrate there are no tricks involved. If it is trickery then I just as interested in how it is done because it it still one great heat source he has “hidden” in his device.

        • Jeff

          The quality of the “hidden heat source” is what’s at issue here. When doing a black box test, as Rossi is insisting on (understandably), the only thing that can really be ascertained are the quality of the hidden heat source. The problem with this test, is that Rossi just hasn’t proven that his heat source is any more energy dense than oil.

          And I really don’t get what you’re trying to prove by demonstrating that I can’t construct a fake device. I am also incapable of constructing a device to catalyze a cold fusion reaction. Or a car or a homemade rocket or a fire for that matter.

          The real question here is what is easier to construct in an absolute sense a cold fusion reactor or a hidden chemical reaction that can heat up water evenly with 50% efficiency.

          If Rossi had run his reactor for 24 hours rather than 4 hours the comparison would have been between a cold fusion reactor and a chemical reaction operating at 300% efficiency.

          But he didn’t.

          • Paul

            I was trying to get you to understand just how much energy really is being created in the test. The reaction in the E-Cat used is likely in the 27KW range. It is very inefficient to heat water to stream the heat more water through a heat-exchanger so getting 3.5KW out means a whole lot more energy was needed at the other end. I think you would need something like 12L of gasoline as fuel to maintain 3.5KW for 4 hours. Do you see room for 12L of fuel plus the mechanism to burn it?

          • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

            Paul, you really don’t know anything about thermodynamics or thermodynamic efficiency, do you.

            • Paul

              Sorry about the delay in getting back to you I closed my browser without saving the page. I admit I am not an expert at thermodynamics and I am taking some wild ass guesses for my numbers, but until you or Jeff explain to me how to convert the chemical energy from 1.5L of fuel in a 1L space without outside oxidizer and no exhaust point with 100% conversion of chemical energy to thermal energy through a complex system then my wags are more believable than your ‘Magical fuel burner’ that must be inside the E-Cat if you are correct that it is fueled by petroleum. Please bring out a demo of your magical burner that does not need oxygen, an exhaust point and manages to fold space to hold the fuel and the device in a space smaller than the materials required to build it and fuel it normally take up in the non-magical world we leave in, the world could really use it.

  • bigzer

    “Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks. ”

    I think that when a scientist present at the facility say ” it’s a day to frame on the wall” or ” everyone was stressed but now everyone has a big smile” pretty mutch resumes the general feeling of the 30 scientists present. Also note that they all decided to end the test earlyer as they where satisfied of the results who ruled out any possible chemical reaction.

    This thing is real, the world is about to change weather you beleve it now or not ^^

    • daniel maris

      Bigzer –

      I’m an enthusiast. I’ve been following the story since January. I am as convinced as a non-scientist who has no access to observe the equipment could be that something genuine is happening.

      But it wouldn’t be that difficult for Rossi to post on his journal or elsewhere some guidance on what’s going on, rather than give occasional, somewhat Sphinx-like answers.

      I hope the world is about to change. Might change the weather as well.

      We’ll see what emerges over the next few days.

  • daniel maris

    Shame we are getting such confused and vague reports.

    Firstly someone says it was the old E cat being tested. I thought it was a module from the 1MW plant that was being tested.

    Secondly no one has officially declared the test a success or not. It would be nice to hear what Rossi thinks.

    Thirdly it would be nice to have some guidance on what to expect. How much energy is put in at the beginning?; how much “fuel” is used? and how much does it cost?; how long could the reaction be expected to continue if it wasn’t shut down?

    Oh well, guess we have to wait. Is Ny Teknik the place to look then for results?

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Yes, and rest assured that as soon as NyTeknik gets it up this site will have a link, or a post.

  • Wes

    Show’s over for now. For some “e-cat comedy” click http://www.ecat.com.

  • bigzer

    It’s an experiment, it’s not build to work in optimal conditions. Remember the demonstrated ecat is the OLD ecat, not the new version.
    Why did he chose the old one? Probably because it’s easyer to open and dissasemble.

    • http://www.nickelpower.org Bruce Fast

      Where do you get your information that this is an OLD e-cat?

  • Johannes Hagel

    We have seen (or have been reported) of 3.5 KW of power (lower limit) having been generated for the duration of 4 hours in self sustain mode. I am not a chemist but from spot I cannot think of an exothermic chemical reaction producing 14KWh in 4 hours without leading to any exhaustion? Or is it possible to hide exhaustion of the expected amount inside of a closed room with 30 people in it who dont even smell anything strange there? Hm.

    • http://askl.com Anonymous

      The reaction of hydrogen and water produces only H2O which happens to be the output of e-cat.

  • Augusto

    Even if the E-Cat can create real Cold Fusion, and generate excess heat, the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market.

    The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.

    • D2

      Augusto

      How exactly does todays experiment show ” the experiment from today shows that it’s very far from being ready to the market” and “The small amount of energy produced shows that, even if it works, it’s not even remotely commercially viable yet.” We don’t even know the details of the experiment. Have you ever heard the saying “don’t get the cart before the horse.” I think it applies here. I’m not saying you’re wrong I’m not saying you’re right but as for me I’m reserving judgment until I know more – a lot more!